Great Drummers?

[Uncommon Sense]

Alright, I`ll admit right now that I don`t really know what it takes to be a great drummer. I listen to all kinds of music but favor Rock/Metal. I`ve always wanted to learn to play the drums too.
Couple of questions;

Who is considered the best drummer of all time and why?
What makes a drummer a great drummer?
Can you tell from a recorded song if the drummer is great or not, or do you have to see them live?, or improvise?

The following are the drummers that stand out in my mind, mostly due to what I percieve to be creative drum technique and the presence of the drum within the songs that I have heard.

Danny Carey - Tool -- Very creative, unique sound
Peter Chris - Kiss -- prominent in many songs, good stamina
Lars Ulrich - Metallica -- again, heavy drums - back in the day
Ginger Baker - Cream -- excellent, able to mix it up
Keith Moon - Who -- could do anything with the drums
Matt Cameron - SoundGarden -- as good as any of the others, creative, unique, etc.

Feel free to comment on my choices and to add your own.

[Capt B. Phart]

Ginger Baker & Keith Moon - good call, Moonie is my personal favorite, I even like the way he held the sticks.

I'd add Gene Krupa, and Animal from the Muppets

[Colophon]

Stewart Copeland of The Police is probably the best hi-hat technician I've heard - fantastic stuff that I have given up hope of ever being able to emulate :(

[paulberserker]

hellfire, i've debated this enough times in the pub on a friday. I taught myself to play to my first 2 suggestions:

Dave Grohl - Nirvanas in utero & QOTSAs songs for the deaf being prime examples. intense super hard hitting. i'd still prefer him to be drumming over being Foo fighters frontman

John Bonham off Led Zeppelin, again, probably the father of tunefully beating the living shit out of a drumkit, inventive, as in his stuffs been sampled a million times, hell listen to the songs. black dog, kashmir, the crunge, 4 sticks being my faves for bonham.

Dave Lombardo off Slayer & Fantomas. check out the title track of Seasons in the Abyss.

these 3 are my personal faves. ive also got all the time in the world for Carey off Tool, Steven Perkins off Janes Addiction, Dave Lovering off the pixies, Tod Trainer off Shellac, Nicko McBrain, Brain off primus & ?uestlove off the roots, though there are more.

(slight hijack)
Lars Ullrich shouldnt be in anybodys greatest drummers list. his drummings the shits. why its so high in the mix and has no bass on st.anger is anybodys guess. did he pay for the studio? does he have something over hetfield and hamnett? god knows...

[Kalhoun]

Steve Gadd did some session work with Steeley Dan that is second to none.

Buddy Rich is simply a superhuman drummer.

[Uncommon Sense]

Originally posted by paulberserker
(slight hijack)
Lars Ullrich shouldnt be in anybodys greatest drummers list. his drummings the shits. why its so high in the mix and has no bass on st.anger is anybodys guess. did he pay for the studio? does he have something over hetfield and hamnett? god knows...

You are correct. That is why I said "back in the day" after his name. He was much better and more creative when they first started - the old stuff was their best.

[World Eater]

Steve Asheim of Deicide

Everyone else is a pretender to the throne.

Copeland was the master of the highhat though

[tomyoung]

I wholeheartedly second Todd Trainer and Lombardo, Paul , and also nominate the Speedo-clad Dale Crover of the Melvins.

[DaddyTimesTwo]

I haven't plaued since my teens, but I still have opinions! Bonham was always my favorite. His style was mostly rather "simple", but he would through in some incredible fills or pedal work that I could never ever even attempt much less master. Although the fact that Rock and Roll is now a Cadillac commercial makes it hard for me to listen to Zeppelin.

I also really like Charlie Watts for a lot of same reasons. Simple, but powerful, and well, so rhythmic.

And the guy that played on Letterman for years, his name escapes me, he was also very good.

[statheist]

Neil Peart, RUSH anyone?
Carter Beauford, The Dave Matthews Band.

[ultrafilter]

Hellhammer, and the guys from Dream Theater and Dillinger Escape Plan.

[Gatopescado]

Lets not forget Bill Bruford!

The guy who plays for Helmet is pretty good, but I don't know his name.

____________
How is Rap like Porn? Both are better with the sound turned off.

[Gundy]

Originally posted by paulberserker
Dave Grohl - Nirvanas in utero & QOTSAs songs for the deaf being prime examples. intense super hard hitting. i'd still prefer him to be drumming over being Foo fighters frontman

This is my first thought when I think of great drummers. First time I heard QOTSA's "No One Knows" on the radio I about shit myself. His drumming on that is intense, hard, and pristine.

[mascaroni]

Keith Moon - The Who... need I say more?
Clem Burke - Blondie... a one man Wall Of Sound.
Moulty - The Barbarians... decided to become a drummer after losing a hand. Like you do.

[Duderdude2]

Neil Peart is right up there with the best of them, and I know I'm not alone with this opinion.

[Chefguy]

Joe Morello, Dave Brubeck Quartet: most finesse and style of any drummer...ever. Got more out of a five-piece trap than any others ever attain with much more complicated setups.

Buddy Rich: Arrogant prick corrupted by his own fame, but a maniac on the skins

[yawndave]

Another vote for Bill Bruford! Carl Palmer's no slouch, either.Terry Bozio can smack them skins pretty well, too. Ringo's son, Zak, does an admirable job filling Keith's extra-large shoes.

[plnnr]

"And the guy that played on Letterman for years, his name escapes me, he was also very good"

Anton Figg

[musicguy]

Originally posted by plnnr
"And the guy that played on Letterman for years, his name escapes me, he was also very good"

Anton Fig

Depends on how far you go back. Before him was Steve Jordan, an incredibly well-rounded drummer. I think Steve was with the show for about 5 years. Also, Steve Gadd did a short stint with the band when it first came on.

[musicguy]

Originally posted by whuckfistle

Couple of questions;

Who is considered the best drummer of all time and why?


I don't think there can be, or needs to be, a "best" drummer of all time. There are so many incredibly talented players that to determine a best would be selling short a lot of great players. IMHO, musicians shouldn't be in competition with each other.

Having said that, some of my favorite drummers are:

Steve Gadd: The epitome of a studio drummer. Incredibly creative, with a groove that just won't quit. Listen to "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover" by Paul Simon to hear an example of his artistry. His discography is huge and you have probably heard him more times than you realize. Steely Dan's "Aja" is another examply of his brilliance.

Vinnie Calaiuta: Drummer for Frank Zappa and many many others. Vinnie is probably one of the most technically proficient drummers that has ever lived. A good example of his playing would be "Keep It Greasy" on Zappa's "Joe's Garage".

John Bonham: This man invented hard rock drumming as far as I'm concerned. Sure he was one of the hardest bashers, but he could also play with finesse and always had a rock solid groove.

Steve Smith: Don't let his work with the pop band "Journey" fool you. The man can play some jazz and has chops that are to die for. I recommend any of his work with his band "Vital Information"

Carter Beuford (sp?): The groove behind "The Dave Matthew's Band". I think he is one of the most innovative drummers around. The fact that he is completely ambidexterous makes for some very interesting drumming.


What makes a drummer a great drummer?


So many things. A rock solid sense of time is a must. Being versitile. Ability to not overplay and rather, play for the music.


Can you tell from a recorded song if the drummer is great or not, or do you have to see them live?, or improvise?

I don't think that you have to see a drummer live to determine how well he plays, although some drummers excel more at live playing and others in the studio. I think an ability to improvise can really show the depth of a musician, not just drummers. It's one thing to play something that you have had a lot of time to work out the details. It's quite another to just be able to play with anyone in any style and be overflowing with ideas. To me, the best drummers display this ability.

Good luck with your drumming quest. If you choose to study, find a good teacher and play in as many different situations as you can. Drums are awesome:)

[The Griffin]

Jimmy Chamberlin (Smashing Pumpkins and now Zwan)

Also the drummer from Wishbone Ash

[Marley23]

I haven't seen Mitch Mitchell listed, I'm a big fan of his. Contributed a lot to Hendrix's early work and jams.

Tim Alexander (ex-Primus, and now Primus again) is very energetic, and he gets a lot of room to play with because of the way the band is set up.

I've never heard two drummers work together like Butch Trucks and Jaimoe from the Allman Brothers. Might seem obligatory, but I can't imagine any other pair of players meshing their styles so well.

[DaddyTimesTwo]

Originally posted by musicguy
Depends on how far you go back. Before him was Steve Jordan, an incredibly well-rounded drummer. I think Steve was with the show for about 5 years. Also, Steve Gadd did a short stint with the band when it first came on.

Anton's the guy I was thinking of. He's done some session work as well, and when I was 16 (this was 19 years ago mind you), he played on Patty Smythe's first solo effort and I just loved the single called "Never Enough". I have heard it in probably 17 or 18 years, but when I was 16 I loved playing that song (and listening too).

Carl Palmer has done some great work, but I think he's more impressed with his abilities than anyone else is.

The guy I first took lessons from has a funny story about Buddy Rich (maybe just a joke, I was 12 when I heard it). Someone was interviewing Buddy and asked what made him such a great drummer. He asked if the person had a dime in his pocket. The interviewer pulls out a dime and holds it between his thumb and fore finger. Buddy pulls out his sticks and then plays a nice little march with perfect technique on the dime and it never falls to the floor. Buddy stops, puts the sticks away, says that's why I'm so damn good and then keeps the dime. Apocryphal? Quite possibly. But also, I think, very funny. And demonstrative of Mr Rich's personality from what I've heard.

[Kal]

IMO, Kenny Aronoff is very good.

[I can't believe that's butter!]

Who is considered the best drummer of all time and why?

Some say Buddy Rich, but I like to think that this question is ultimately unanswerable.


What makes a drummer a great drummer?

A good drummer knows how to do all of these things at EXACTLY the same time:
Play a solid backbeat groove while guessing correctly the beats per minute of the tempo, subdividing it by three and hearing the diametrically opposed counter rhythm/beat displacement figure that he didn't play because he has such restraint and taste, while mouthing "open the gate on the snare, my ghosted notes are not reaching the dance floor" to the soundman and smiling at the idiot guitarist while cursing him under his breath, while figuring out how many gigs he will have to play before the mortgage is paid this month,

AND while contemplating whether Stephen Hawking actually explained the theory of quantum mechanics to the layman with only three mathematical equations.

And all of this while fixing a fallen cymbal tilter, seducing the best looking and biggest chested blonde on the dance floor with only his eyes, telling the lead singer the words to the song, indicating the correct chord inversion to the pianist with a camouflaged obscene hand gesture, deducing the effectiveness of a seven strokeroll as opposed to a five stroke roll in the upcoming fill and finally figuring out when Coke stock is finally going to hit rock bottom so he can buy low, cash out, and quit playing with these losers.......

And, oh yeah...... are humble.

(from here (http://www.jazz-sax.com/comments.pl?cid=239&sid=40) :D )

Can you tell from a recorded song if the drummer is great or not, or do you have to see them live?, or improvise?

To me, the sound is what matters, but it's also nice to observe a drummer's clean technique, feel the actual soundwaves, etc.

[musicguy]

So true, Joe K, so true. :)

[statheist]

I'm not real fond of the music (sorta modern jazz) but I've heard it said by drummers that Dave Weckl is the best drummer alive. From what I heard, he must be up there at the very least

[I can't believe that's butter!]

Oh, musicguy, I just wanted to say that I am in agreement with your assessment of Steve Gadd. Some people here may not be familiar with the caliber at which he plays. I'd like to refer those people to here (http://drummerworld.com/drummers/Steve_Gadd.html), where there are Quicktime videos demonstrating his playing. I especially recommend the videos entitled "Paradiddle Groove", "Around The Set", "Ramaque [sic] Around The Set", and "Laying It Down".

Another drummer I like is the late Jeff Porcaro of session and Toto fame. He also laid down some bang-up (pardon the pun) tracks with Steely Dan, most notably on their 1975 album Katy Lied.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Originally posted by mascaroni
Clem Burke - Blondie... a one man Wall Of Sound.


Good call. I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes Clem. In the studio, he's like a freakin' surgeon. Precision like there's no tomorrow.

[KidCharlemagne]

Rock: Neil Peart, Stewart Copeland, Keith Moon

Jazz/misc: Steve Gadd, Dave Weckl.

I'd have to give Dave Weckl top status.

[MusicJunkie]

Bill Bruford has done incredible work with Yes and King Crimsom. As he also filled in for Phil Collins when Peter left the band and Phil had to sing live, we can say that he has been the drummer of the three best prog bands ever.

Keith Moon has no equals in the "pound everything in sight" school of drumming.

Jaki Liebzeit was a human metronome with Can.

Phil himself is no slouch. His work brought precision and virtuosism to Genesis.

Joe Morello. The man did Time Out. No more needs be spoken.

[rolandgunslinger]

Biggest KISS fan in the world here. And, as much as I hate to admit it....Peter Criss was not a very good drummer(IMOHO)

Eric Carr was much better. God rest his soul.

[musicguy]

Originally posted by Joe K


Another drummer I like is the late Jeff Porcaro of session and Toto fame. He also laid down some bang-up (pardon the pun) tracks with Steely Dan, most notably on their 1975 album Katy Lied.

Oh Man, Jeff was incredible. Nobody played a shuffle like he could, as far as I am concerned, except maybe Bernard Purdie. Just listen to "Roseanna" by Toto to hear what I'm talking about.

(Argh, I can't believe I left him off of my list, considering I am a huge fan and was lucky enough to study with his dad. Shame on me)

[Marley23]

I don't think Tony Williams has been mentioned yet...

[Ludovic]

Nick Mason, while seemingly not technically excellent, nevertheless has a good, recognizable sound that, nonetheless, no one seems to copy all that much. I would think that with all its simplicity, someone would have copied it by now....

[World Eater]

Originally posted by Joe K
Who is considered the best drummer of all time and why?

Some say Buddy Rich, but I like to think that this question is ultimately unanswerable.


What makes a drummer a great drummer?

A good drummer knows how to do all of these things at EXACTLY the same time:
Play a solid backbeat groove while guessing correctly the beats per minute of the tempo, subdividing it by three and hearing the diametrically opposed counter rhythm/beat displacement figure that he didn't play because he has such restraint and taste, while mouthing "open the gate on the snare, my ghosted notes are not reaching the dance floor" to the soundman and smiling at the idiot guitarist while cursing him under his breath, while figuring out how many gigs he will have to play before the mortgage is paid this month,

AND while contemplating whether Stephen Hawking actually explained the theory of quantum mechanics to the layman with only three mathematical equations.

And all of this while fixing a fallen cymbal tilter, seducing the best looking and biggest chested blonde on the dance floor with only his eyes, telling the lead singer the words to the song, indicating the correct chord inversion to the pianist with a camouflaged obscene hand gesture, deducing the effectiveness of a seven strokeroll as opposed to a five stroke roll in the upcoming fill and finally figuring out when Coke stock is finally going to hit rock bottom so he can buy low, cash out, and quit playing with these losers.......

And, oh yeah...... are humble.

(from here (http://www.jazz-sax.com/comments.pl?cid=239&sid=40) :D )

Can you tell from a recorded song if the drummer is great or not, or do you have to see them live?, or improvise?

To me, the sound is what matters, but it's also nice to observe a drummer's clean technique, feel the actual soundwaves, etc.

Let me just say you just described my thoughts during a show. That is spot on what goes through a drummer's head.

:D