Assbag general says that Bush was "Chosen by God" to lead the fight against "Satan&qu

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I've got a strong contender for fuckhead of the month here. i'm surprised he hasn't been pitted already.

Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/17/wboyk17.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/17/ixnewstop.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=15391)
The general leading the hunt for Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein has publicly declared that the Christian God is "bigger" than Allah, who is a false "idol", and believes the war on terrorism is a fight with Satan, it emerged yesterday.

<snip>

Gen Boykin has repeatedly told Christian groups and prayer meetings that President George W Bush was chosen by God to lead the global fight against Satan.

He told one gathering: "Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not vote for him. He's in the White House because God put him there for a time such as this."


This guy is clearly a moron but what is he doing with any authority in this conflict? He is hurting the US with his ignorant, bigoted, stupid remarks. He is is misrepresenting American policy towards the Islamic world and giving fuel to the fire for those who already suspect that this attitude is emblamatic of the US as a whole and that the "War on trerror" is really a US led attempt to eradicate Islam.

More from this genius:
In January, he told Baptists in Florida about a victory over a Muslim warlord in Somalia, who had boasted that Allah would protect him from American capture. "I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real god and his was an idol," Gen Boykin said.

He also emerged from the conflict with a photograph of the Somalian capital Mogadishu bearing a strange dark mark. He has said this showed "the principalities of darkness. . . a demonic presence in that city that God revealed to me as the enemy".
We're in Jack Chick territory with this clown but Rummy seems to be defending him. I don't know what Shrub has to say. No doubt he secretly agrees with all of this bullshit but he doesn't have the balls to say it publicly.

It's unconscionable that this Boykin fuckhead is allowed to have any power at all in the this conflict. It's like sending an avowed White Supremacist to lead an intervention in Liberia.

What a fucking :wally

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Gahh. I messed up the thread title. Ishould just say "...lead the fight against Satan."

[wakimika]

Thank God we aren't like those Muslim religious fanatics.

[troub]

Gen Boykin told NBC that he would be curtailing his speeches to religious groups. "I don't want to come across as a Right-wing radical," he said.

Uh. Wow.

[Mtgman]

Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic
I've got a strong contender for fuckhead of the month here. i'm surprised he hasn't been pitted already.You're just not looking hard enough. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=216864&perpage=50&highlight=Boykin&pagenumber=3)

Enjoy,
Steven

[Swampwolf]

Originally posted by wakimika
Thank God we aren't like those Muslim religious fanatics.

Don't you mean "Thank our bigger, better and realer God?"

[Zenster]

Once more Shrub and his crew are painting terrorist crosshairs on our backs with their "Christian" drivel. How long is it going to take for America to realize what a danger this mixture of theology and government represents. Haven't we just overthrown one of the worst theocracies in some time? The irony is inescapable, evidently incredible stupidity and pompous sanctimonious bullshit politics aren't.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally posted by Mtgman
You're just not looking hard enough. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=216864&perpage=50&highlight=Boykin&pagenumber=3)

Enjoy,
Steven
I know. I found the GD thread immediately after I posted this one. Sorry for the repetition. At least I put it in a different forum.

[Hyperelastic]

I put Boykin in the same class as those odious Christian athletes who credit their success to God. I suppose the soldiers who were killed in Somalia must have been on the big guy's bad side. (God's, not Boykin's)

[Mtgman]

Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic
I know. I found the GD thread immediately after I posted this one. Sorry for the repetition. At least I put it in a different forum. Psst. FOLLOW the link. It isn't to where you think it is.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Darwin's Finch]

Wait a minute...I thought we were the Great Satan. So now they're Satan, and God is on our side? I'm so confused. Does anyone have an updated program showing whose side God is on now?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally posted by Mtgman
Psst. FOLLOW the link. It isn't to where you think it is.

Enjoy,
Steven
Oh..ok. I thought of checking that thread but I was sort of afraid to go in there. ;)

Ok, I'm late with this. It isn't the first time.

[Captain Amazing]

So? I've been saying Bush was chosen by Supreme beings to be president for a long time. :)

But in all seriousnessl, this guy's career is now over. He can forget about any more stars. My guess is that the Pentagon and Defense Department are going to publicly back him ("Fine general. Of course he has the right to his opinion"), then, after this goes off the media radar screen, he'll be announcing his retirement. The Pentagon can't be all that happy with him...they're just not going to punish him in front of civilians.

[Larry Mudd]

Darwin's Finch, I'm even more confuzzled:But now we got weapons
Of chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-Bob Dylan, 1963I don't even know which side Bob's on, anymore.

He also emerged from the conflict with a photograph of the Somalian capital Mogadishu bearing a strange dark mark. He has said this showed "the principalities of darkness. . . a demonic presence in that city that God revealed to me as the enemy".Note to self-- never let generals in the late stages of amphetamine psychosis take your holiday snaps down to the photomat for you.

[vibrotronica]

"My Invisible Daddy Who Lives in the Sky can beat up your Invisible Daddy Who Lives in the Sky!"

[Zoe]

If God had meant for me to read about this lunatic, he would have seen to it that the subject was posted a second time since I missed it the first time.

Omigod...

[Super Gnat]

Originally posted by Hyperelastic
I put Boykin in the same class as those odious Christian athletes who credit their success to God. What's this all about? I think we can all agree that the general is, to be kind, off his rocker. But how are atheletes who *thank* God even in the same dimension? They don't demonize the other team. They don't say that every game is a fight between God and Satan. They don't even use God to justify cheating. So color me :confused: .

[Shortie]

Originally posted by Super Gnat
What's this all about? I think we can all agree that the general is, to be kind, off his rocker. But how are atheletes who *thank* God even in the same dimension? They don't demonize the other team. They don't say that every game is a fight between God and Satan. They don't even use God to justify cheating. So color me :confused: .
I think it's the whole "God likes me more than you" thing.

Granted, that doesn't bug me as much as people who explain that God is to thank for people living through an accident or disaster, when others didn't survive.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Originally posted by Super Gnat
What's this all about? I think we can all agree that the general is, to be kind, off his rocker. But how are atheletes who *thank* God even in the same dimension? They don't demonize the other team. They don't say that every game is a fight between God and Satan. They don't even use God to justify cheating. So color me :confused: .

I agree. Although I'd find it even more difficult to believe in a God who was a sports-fan, or who otherwise meddled in entertainment contests, such a belief is pretty harmless. This guy is a danger.

Daniel

[Diogenes the Cynic]

There are athletes who say that God won games for them.

I've also heard them say that God made them catch a ball or hit a three point shot at the buzzer, etc.

Kurt Warner said that Jesus broke Trent Green's knee for him so Warner could "get an opportunity" to start for the Rams. Jesus is Jeff Gillooly. Who knew?

A few months ago HBO's Real Sports did a segment on fundies in the NFL. It included interviews with non-Christian players and the harassment they received from Christians. One player related how his team taunted him after a victory in which the other team had missed a field goal at the end of the game. They told him that God had made the ball miss and that he couldn't possibly deny this "miracle" as proof of God's existence.

It also talked about players blanketing locker rooms with tracts and pmaphlets but becoming insensed when one guy brought a copy of the Tao Te Ching into the facility. Those guys are scary.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

God broke Trent Green's knee? What, did he have a hundred bucks riding on the game or something? That's a pretty dim view Kurt Warner has of his Creator.

Still and all, he's entitled to his views, however zany they may be. Other people who harass nonChristian teammates are assholes. I hadn't heard about that before.

Daniel

[Spavined Gelding]

Two points, neither very original.

First, every day I am again astounded by the number of people who pray for divine guidance and every damn time the Lord God Almighty tell them that He agrees with them %100. Just amazing. First it is amazing that they have a direct line to God. Second it is amazing that the Almighty's will is always in line with their wishes.


We had the same sort of thing with General Gordon at Khartoum. Gordon, you might recall, purported to hold himself out as the Almighty’s appointed agent for smiting the heathen and held that commission to be superior to any contrary orders he might receive from Horse Guard’s. Sooner or later the true believers, theirs or ours, are going to get us.

[elf6c]

Sounds like somebody other then Rumsfled gave him a heaping cup of Shut The Fuck Up:

WASHINGTON - A top Pentagon (news - web sites) general has said he will tone down his rhetoric after being criticized for casting the war on terror as a religious battle, officials said Friday.

But Defense Department lawyers, public affairs officials and others were meeting Friday to try to figure out whether that would be enough to calm the storm of criticism surrounding Army Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin, who has said the counterterror war is a battle with Satan.

His comments came in speeches — some made in uniform — at evangelical Christian churches.



But the same Donald Rumsfled and Pentagon folks which were ready to punish ordinary soldiers in Iraq for publically criticizing the Adminstration's efforts now see the free speech light. Gee, what a shock.

Despite repeated questions at a Pentagon press conference, Rumsfeld declined to condemn Boykin's statements or to say whether he would take any action.

Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said he had spoken in uniform at prayer breakfasts, adding he did not think Boykin broke any military rules by giving talks at churches.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031017/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/general_religious_views_10

[zen101]

Who is to say he's wrong? He probably means the same god that sent bears into a village to murder all the children for making fun of one of his prophet's baldness. A god who would do that would never balk at election tampering or peddling influence.

God probably does not like homosexuals either. SFW? Who cares what God thinks? The guy is obviously fucked in the head. Look at what he supposedly had done to his own kid. And he invented the platypus. Sick fucko indeed!

The real joke is that the same god that got Bush elected ALSO told the guys to ram airplanes into the towers. So surprising? Ever play with slot cars or model trains? The most fun is crashing them in to each other. Imagine how fun it would be to have little people inside when you do it.

I guess the whole issue of duplicity in biblical and general theological writing just missed me. Ever consider that God DOES tell people all this stuff and then denys it later through a mouthpiece?

[Bouncer]

Couple of small points if I may for my first post. Hi, btw!

1) He was speaking as a private individual at a private function. It's an important distinction because he is not expressing the policy of the United States or the Department of Defense or the United States Army or his particular command. He is speaking as himself. He knew that, and more importantly his audience knew that.

If the critics can make a case that his personal views impact his ability to do his job as deputy undersecretary for intelligence then that's a valid issue. If they cannot, then it's a bit of a strawman to argue that his personal views somehow make him unfit for command, since he's not the Chief of Chaplains for the United States Army and in fact is not a Chaplain at all.

2) I doubt that his comments are likely to impact his career in this administration. He appears to be far more a warrior than a politician. He's been wounded in combat, participated in the Iran rescue attempt, Commanded Delta Force, Commanded the US Army Special Operations Command, been Commandant of the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare School (Green Berets) and has been sent by the US to hunt down warlords and druglords in the past. He's a genuine operator, and since Rumsfeld believes very much in Special Operations Forces, there's no way he's going to let Boykin wander off into the sunset.

I don't bother to defend his statements, since to me, they're the statements of a deeply held personal belief and not US Army policy. It is fair and accurate however, to point out what he has said in the past.

"Boykin compared the radical Islamic fundamentalists to the radical “hooded Christians” of the United States. “There are Muslims who worship here and support the United States,” he said, pointing out that those who act violently in the name of their religion do not reflect the principles of Islam."
http://www.dix.army.mil/PAO/post03/post030703/outlook.htm

Biographic Data Source:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/980885.asp

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[vanilla]

quote from God:
"I was only kidding!"

[Reeder]

He was speaking as a private individual at a private function. It's an important distinction because he is not expressing the policy of the United States or the Department of Defense or the United States Army or his particular command. He is speaking as himself. He knew that, and more importantly his audience knew that.





The man was in full dress uniform. He was speaking in his capacity as a Lt. General in the US Army.

And he knew that.

[county]

Well, I don't know about Boykins god, but if my God wanted to, he could find Ben Laden.

[Typo Negative]

Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic
There are athletes who say that God won games for them.

I've also heard them say that God made them catch a ball or hit a three point shot at the buzzer, etc.

We were in the game....until JESUS MADE ME FUMBLE! (http://www.sportsfilter.com/comments.cfm/163)

[PunditLisa]

I personally don't care if the dude thinks he's a reincarnation of Shaka Zulu as long as he's a competent general.

As far as football players who thank God for their ability, why is this anyone's concern? One guy thanks his mother, another guy thanks his agent, another guy thanks God. So what? Next time YOU score the winning touchdown and you're interviewed by Lisa Guerrero, you can thank whomever you please. And you can be guaranteed that, unless you mention me personally, I'll STILL not give a shit.

Geesh.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Punditlisa, I see what you're saying to some degree. However, now that the initial occupation has succeeded, this ongoing war is every bit as much about public perception and relations as it is about military prowess. A competent general in such an engagement will not make statements that increase the morale of his enemies. I submit that's just what Boykin has done: by framing the war in "US vs. Muslims" rhetoric, he's making bin Laden's job far easier. He's making it very easy to portray this as another Crusade against Islam. And that's exactly what we don't want.

Competence on the battlefield isn't enough: there's more to warfare than the battlefield. If his supervisors are competent, they'll fire him and repudiate what he's said.

Daniel

[Chefguy]

Some thoughts:
Assuming to speak for a supreme being is the ultimate in arrogance.

Assuming that a supreme being would bother to speak with your sorry ass is egocentric in the extreme.

Assuming that a supreme being is 'on your side' has been the basis for the mindless slaughter of innocents for centuries.

And yet we persist in the madness. And yet many of us still allow a feeble old man in Rome to dictate how we live our lives. Religious oppression only has the power that we as a citizenry give it. Religion is an opiate. Religion is a parasite on humanity.

This asshole is a danger to our country. Oh yes he is. It is precisely this sort of deluded warrior that can end up in the White House by force of arms. What, you've never read a history book?

Just some mindless musings, but then I've been up since three this morning.

[Michael Ellis]

Originally posted by Reeder
The man was in full dress uniform. He was speaking in his capacity as a Lt. General in the US Army.

And he knew that.

Jesus Christ, I agree with Reeder.

[wring]

God made you say that.

[Gorsnak]

Originally posted by county
Well, I don't know about Boykins god, but if my God wanted to, he could find Ben Laden.
Well, in all fairness, finding Ben Laden (http://phone.people.yahoo.com/py/psPhoneSearch.py?srch=bas&D=1&FirstName=ben&LastName=laden&City=&State=dc&searchFor=Telephone&Search=Search) doesn't seem like it would be any great trick. Heck, he's in DC for crying out loud.

[elucidator]

Originally posted by wring
God made you say that.
:D

[Derleth]

My own thread is here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218336).

Oh, well. No sense in reposting my comments.

[Daisy Cutter]

n January, he told Baptists in Florida about a victory over a Muslim warlord in Somalia, who had boasted that Allah would protect him from American capture. "I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real god and his was an idol," Gen Boykin said.


Well, so far the only person who has really needed to eat their words is the muslim warlord. What happened to him by the way ? Is he now dead ? Is he behind bars ?
Doesn't seem like allah did him a whole lot of good, like he foolishly boasted.
:D

Also, the general said later he was reffering to the terrorists and not muslims in general.

Terrorists have no real god (imo). They are scum, and they need to be erradicated as fast as possible. A one way ticket to hell, where they can meet their true maker.

:o

[Bouncer]

"The man was in full dress uniform. He was speaking in his capacity as a Lt. General in the US Army.

And he knew that." -Reeder


With respect, I'd tend to disgree. On a splitting hairs basis he wasn't in Full Dress Unifrom, more likely his Class A uniform. I only raise the point because you're inferring a sense of authority present in the uniform. At that point it does become a little more than semantics to mention the difference. Still, we'll call it his Class A's unless you really want to verbally spar over it. :)

The difference if you want to check it out (probably don't care) is this:

http://www.infantrymen.net/files/army_uniforms/GeneralOfficerClassA.jpg

Class A's

Versus this:

http://www.infantrymen.net/files/army_uniforms/GeneralOfficerBlueMess.jpg

Dress Blues Mess uniform

Trust me when I say the latter imparts a lot more authority than the former to the average civilian. But enough of that.

I'd definately disagree that he was speaking in his capacity as a Lt. Gen or undersecretary for intelligence. He was clearly speaking as an evangelical christian and both the group he was speaking to and the tone of his comments reflect that. He wasn't at an offical US Army function, meeting or press briefing and he wasn't under orders to speak at the function. If I were to accept your rationale that the mere uniform makes this an offical Army function (which is the premise behind your point and thus the rationale behind the criticism) then ANYTIME you see a Soldier off duty in uniform talking to someone about ANYTHING they are making offical policy for the US Army. And that concept simply doesn't wash in the real world beyond DC politics.

As I said before, I don't defend his statements, since I'm not an evangelical christian. I just have to wonder if part of this isn't political in nature. I've yet to hear any arguments or evidence that his personal beliefs (and the expression thereof) have, or are going to make him less effective at his job. As long as they don't, then he could be a declared Witch making similar statements (substitute Gaia for God) at a Coven meeting and it'd end up being as irrelevant.

Unless the goal is to attack the administration by proxy. If that's the case, then it's a good idea to remember that He's served under Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and now Bush Jr. None of the democratic presidents seemed to have a problem with him speaking his mind on his time (and probably in uniform then too). Why is it a failing if he does so under a republican president?

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[cmason32]

http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/god_clarifies_dont_kill.html


"I tried to put it in the simplest possible terms for you people, so you'd get it straight, because I thought it was pretty important," said God, called Yahweh and Allah respectively in the Judaic and Muslim traditions. "I guess I figured I'd left no real room for confusion after putting it in a four-word sentence with one-syllable words, on the tablets I gave to Moses. How much more clear can I get?"

"But somehow, it all gets twisted around and, next thing you know, somebody's spouting off some nonsense about, 'God says I have to kill this guy, God wants me to kill that guy, it's God's will,'" God continued. "It's not God's will, all right? News flash: 'God's will' equals 'Don't murder people.'"

Worse yet, many of the worst violators claim that their actions are justified by passages in the Bible, Torah, and Qur'an.

"To be honest, there's some contradictory stuff in there, okay?" God said. "So I can see how it could be pretty misleading. I admit it—My bad. I did My best to inspire them, but a lot of imperfect human agents have misinterpreted My message over the millennia. Frankly, much of the material that got in there is dogmatic, doctrinal bullshit. I turn My head for a second and, suddenly, all this stuff about homosexuality gets into Leviticus, and everybody thinks it's God's will to kill gays. It absolutely drives Me up the wall."

[Largo62]

General Boykin may have referred to good Americans who are Muslim, but he also said that the Christian god was real and the Allah unreal and an idol. Whatever you say about the venue in which he spoke, if he was wearing a uniform at the time of his remarks he was representing his government. Not that his words were too much different from Bush's gaffe about the "crusade" against terrorism.

Incidentally, calling Allah unreal and an idol is an affront to Muslims on two levels. Allah is a god to them, and they do not believe in any idol. If you've ever seen the inside of a mosque you may have noted that there is no representation of anything living anywhere to be seen. The decoration of a mosque is entirely geometric. No such thing as an idol exists in Muslim belief. Boykin's remarks about Muslims worshiping an idol were simply ignorant and stupid.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Boykin's comments are also in direct conflic with the stated position of his own CIC who has taken great pains to state (publicly, at least) that this is not a war on Islam. Boykin's stupid slurs are insubordinate as well as bigoted. Furthermore, he is giving aid and comfort to the enemy by supplying terrorist and guerilla recruiters with propaganda and by scaring the Muslim world as a whole into giving more popular support to anti-American causes.

Boykin is a fucking asshole any way you slice it.

[Bouncer]

"Furthermore, he is giving aid and comfort to the enemy by supplying terrorist and guerilla recruiters with propaganda and by scaring the Muslim world as a whole into giving more popular support to anti-American causes."

Welcome to Horseshit land. Which is kinda like Marlboro Country, only stinkier. Your argument fails for so many reasons that it'd take me two days to list them all. Here's the most important. You cannot charge someone for treason for excercising their first amendment rights. (I wish someone would tell O'Reilly and what's
her name, the blonde female, that).

Nuff said about that. For me, it comes down to this:

Is he the kind of guy we want fighting for us? To answer that question, we look at his bio.

Twice Wounded in combat, plank owner in Delta Force, operated in Iran, Somalia, Panama, Grenada, Columbia, Haiti. Former Deputy director of special activities in the U.S. Army Element of the CIA. Former Commanding Officer of Delta Force. Former Commanding Officer of Special Operations. Former Commandant of the Special Warfare School.

Frankly, I don't give a flying fuck if he wears tutu's on his own time and praises Gaia in uniform everyday on his way to and from the office. He is JUST the kind of professional bad ass I want on MY side in a war since he could probably disembowel you with a toothpick and build a bomb out of dental floss and gum wrappers.
He's an operator. And I want him on MY side as apposed to sitting on the sidelines.

He clearly has a strong belief. That belief is fairly obviously part of what helps him cope with what he's seen and been a part of. It helps him function and carry out missions for our nation in hell holes you and I can't begin to imagine. I can't begrudge him his belief given what he does and where he goes. Hell, maybe he knows something you and I don't.

More to the point, to look for perfection in anyone is an excercise in both pride and stupidity. It doesn't exist, it never has existed, it never will exist. Get over his not being a perfect robot and accept him for what he is. A genuine bad-ass who paradoxically (or maybe quixotically) believes in the Love of Jesus Christ. Right now, we NEED the genuine article bad-asses like him regardless of how they view the afterlife. To remove him because of some unrelated political reason is to hamstring us all. It is to deprive us of his skills, knowledge and paid-for-in-blood wisdom. It is to throw away a useful, deadly weapon to use against our enemies because of some cosmetic detail some of us don't like.

To do that, WOULD be giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally posted by Bouncer
"Furthermore, he is giving aid and comfort to the enemy by supplying terrorist and guerilla recruiters with propaganda and by scaring the Muslim world as a whole into giving more popular support to anti-American causes."

Welcome to Horseshit land. Which is kinda like Marlboro Country, only stinkier. Your argument fails for so many reasons that it'd take me two days to list them all. Here's the most important. You cannot charge someone for treason for excercising their first amendment rights. (I wish someone would tell O'Reilly and what's
her name, the blonde female, that).
First of all I never said that he should be charged with treason I said he was an asshole and second of all why don't you actually show me where my argument "fails" instead of just flinging shit?

Nuff said about that. For me, it comes down to this:

Is he the kind of guy we want fighting for us?
That one's easy. No.
To answer that question, we look at his bio.

Twice Wounded in combat, plank owner in Delta Force, operated in Iran, Somalia, Panama, Grenada, Columbia, Haiti. Former Deputy director of special activities in the U.S. Army Element of the CIA. Former Commanding Officer of Delta Force. Former Commanding Officer of Special Operations. Former Commandant of the Special Warfare School.
And this is relevant how exactly. i don't give two shits about his servoce record. He's a fucking ignorant, dangerous shitstain and he needs to be relieved of duty. Now.
Frankly, I don't give a flying fuck if he wears tutu's on his own time and praises Gaia in uniform everyday on his way to and from the office. He is JUST the kind of professional bad ass I want on MY side in a war since he could probably disembowel you with a toothpick and build a bomb out of dental floss and gum wrappers.
He's an operator. And I want him on MY side as apposed to sitting on the sidelines.
So you have a homoerotic fetish for military psychopaths. Bully for you. I think we need to keep the crazoids out of the military especially when they spew ignorant, bigoted and inciteful garbage about the people we're supposed to be "liberating."
He clearly has a strong belief. That belief is fairly obviously part of what helps him cope with what he's seen and been a part of. It helps him function and carry out missions for our nation in hell holes you and I can't begin to imagine. I can't begrudge him his belief given what he does and where he goes. Hell, maybe he knows something you and I don't.
He needs to keep his fucking bullshit, retarded beliefs to himself. Especially since those beliefs run directly counter to his official mission.

More to the point, to look for perfection in anyone is an excercise in both pride and stupidity. It doesn't exist, it never has existed, it never will exist. Get over his not being a perfect robot and accept him for what he is. A genuine bad-ass who paradoxically (or maybe quixotically) believes in the Love of Jesus Christ. Right now, we NEED the genuine article bad-asses like him regardless of how they view the afterlife. To remove him because of some unrelated political reason is to hamstring us all. It is to deprive us of his skills, knowledge and paid-for-in-blood wisdom. It is to throw away a useful, deadly weapon to use against our enemies because of some cosmetic detail some of us don't like.

To do that, WOULD be giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

Regards,
-Bouncer- [/B][/QUOTE]
It's not "unrealated" at all, moron. It has a direct bearing on our immediate objectives. His bullshit remarks are not only insulting to Iraqis and others (like Turks) who are supposed to be our allies in this war, not only are they insulting to Muslim men and women who serve in the US military, but they jeopardize American lives by severely undercutting the expressed motivations for the invasion and for the war on terror.

This is no different than if a general in Somalia had started sounding off about how he knew that his "white" army would defeat those "black savages." It's dangerous, it's inexcusable and it's unacceptable.

Welcome to the board, asshole.

[Claptree]

Hello Bouncer!

[Zenster]

More quotes from a CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/10/20/boykin.statement/index.html) article:

... A former head of U.S. Army Special Forces who is involved in the search for Osama bin Laden, he said in a June speech to a Christian prayer group that radical Muslims hate the United States "because we're a Christian nation, because our foundation and roots are Judeo-Christian and the enemy is a guy named Satan."

He also said that when dealing with a Somali warlord, "I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol."

... Boykin had told Pentagon officials he would stop making controversial speeches about his personal religious beliefs. The original language in his written statement read "the sensitivities of my job today dictate that further church speeches are inappropriate."

That portion of the statement was taken out in the final version distributed by the Pentagon press office.

Among the other excluded language: _"I believe that God intervenes in the affairs of men, to include nations, as Benjamin Franklin so eloquently stated. Yes I believe that George Bush was placed in the White House by God as well as Bill Clinton and other presidents."

_"As a Christian I believe that there is a spiritual war that is continuous as articulated in the Bible. It is not confined to the war of terrorism."

_"The evidence that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles is undeniable. We are a nation of many cultures and religions but the evidence of our foundation is historic."
This shithead should bear direct responsibility for any further Islamist terror attacks on American soil. He is a danger to us all.

[Khadaji]

My dog's bigger than your dog, my dog's bigger than yours. My dog's bigger 'cause he eats K-L-Ration, my dog's bigger than yours ... oh wait, it said my God's bigger. Never mind.

[Super Gnat]

Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic
There are athletes who say that God won games for them.

I've also heard them say that God made them catch a ball or hit a three point shot at the buzzer, etc.They may be delusional (or maybe not), but not hateful.

Kurt Warner said that Jesus broke Trent Green's knee for him so Warner could "get an opportunity" to start for the Rams. Jesus is Jeff Gillooly. Who knew?

A few months ago HBO's Real Sports did a segment on fundies in the NFL. It included interviews with non-Christian players and the harassment they received from Christians. One player related how his team taunted him after a victory in which the other team had missed a field goal at the end of the game. They told him that God had made the ball miss and that he couldn't possibly deny this "miracle" as proof of God's existence.

It also talked about players blanketing locker rooms with tracts and pmaphlets but becoming insensed when one guy brought a copy of the Tao Te Ching into the facility. Those guys are scary. And had Hyperelastic stated that he was referring to those atheletes who beat others over the head with their faith or are hateful about expressing it, then I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

[Bouncer]

"He needs to keep his fucking bullshit, retarded beliefs to himself."
-Diogenes the Cynic

Ahh.. the real reasoning behind your viewpoint emerges. It's NOT about his job or his record, his speaking or anything else. It's about his "bullshit, retarded beliefs".

And I am an asshole for disagreeing with you. One must wonder if that means you are a fuckwit stump dumb knuckle dragging cracker, for disagreeing with me.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, he's not going anywhere. All your raging aside.

Thanks for the welcome!

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[Bouncer]

Hi Claptree! How ya been! Stop by IRC once in a while. :)

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Ahh.. the real reasoning behind your viewpoint emerges. It's NOT about his job or his record, his speaking or anything else. It's about his "bullshit, retarded beliefs".[//quote]
No, it's about giving speeches which not only contradict the stated goals of his CIC but which also endanger Americans and insult our allies as well as his own troops.
[quote]And I am an asshole for disagreeing with you.
No, you're an asshole for defending hate speech.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, he's not going anywhere. All your raging aside.
That depends on if he keeps his mouth shut. This administration will not tolerate political liabilities. Remember Trent Lott.
Thanks for the welcome!
you're welcome.

[E72521]

Bouncer
With respect, I'd tend to disgree. On a splitting hairs basis he wasn't in Full Dress Unifrom, more likely his Class A uniform. I only raise the point because you're inferring a sense of authority present in the uniform. At that point it does become a little more than semantics to mention the difference. Still, we'll call it his Class A's unless you really want to verbally spar over it.

<snip>

Trust me when I say the latter imparts a lot more authority than the former to the average civilian. But enough of that.

It doesn't matter if he's in his dress blues, class A, BDU, or in a pink tutu with a dildo shoved up his ass. Unless things have changed drastically in the twenty years since I served, his authority is in the stars he wears on his uniform, not which uniform he's wearing.

If his conduct undermines the mission of the United States, like say enraging our Middle Eastern allies and fueling the terrorist's fire by dissing Allah, it is at a minimum conduct unbecoming of a General Officer. Army policy is (or at least used to be) that while in uniform or civilian clothing, a soldier will conduct himself as a soldier 24/7/365, whether he's on base, in the battlefield, on leave, IN CHURCH, or anywhere else.

I doubt that President Bush* is able to grasp the consequences of the General's foolish remarks, and I expect little, if anything to be done about it. If anything, President Bush* probably thinks those were some darn good remarks.

Welcome to the SDMB, Bouncer!

[Bouncer]

Hey thanks E72521,

You've a point, still, since the CJCOS has himself in the past addressed prayer breakfasts in Uniform it'd be a bit surprising if they did an about face on Boykin.

I don't think Boykin (or the US Army) cares much if he irritates Somali warlords (Which is WHO he was addressing with his "My god is greater than yours" comment). It's about context. He was speaking to an enemy combatant, not an Islamic prayer group or a group of Mullahs. He then retold the anecdote at various times to make a point to the people to whom he was speaking. He wasn't addressing the General Assembly of the United Nations. He was speaking to evangelical christians.

If you take the comment out of context, away from both the time it was spoken and the person(s) to whom it was spoken, then you can spin it all kinds of ways. It's hate speech, it's this speech, it's that speech. But the problem with that of course is that we could all go rushing around finding comments from anyone on just about anything and spin it into some sort of "hate speech".

Which is pretty much what has happened here.

"My comments to Osman Otto in Mogadishu were not referencing his worship of Allah but his worship of money and power; idolatry. He was a corrupt man, not a follower of Islam."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/981939.asp?0cb=-115186886

..."I’m sad to say a lot of Somalis were killed as we went after Osman Atto.
But we missed him by seconds. He walked out of the facility that we raided, he walked down the street and blended in with the crowd and we missed him.
“And then he went on CNN and he laughed at us, and he said, ‘They’ll never get me because Allah will protect me. Allah will protect me.’"...Three days later we went after him again, and this time we got him. Not a mark on him. We got him... "I looked at him and said, ‘Are you Osman Atto?’ And he said ‘Yes.’ And I said, ‘Mr. Atto, you underestimated our God.’”
http://www.msnbc.com/news/980841.asp?0sl=-11

He was basically giving an "in your face" type comment to a captured warlord. A man who is probably responsible for the deaths of thousands or even tens of thousands of people in his own country. He then retold that story to others. If being sassy to a captured warlord is the worst of Boykins crimes on this planet than he probably a better man than most of us here.

Still, I take your point that someone somewhere might find something anyone says at any time to be offensive. Because effectively, isn't that's what you're saying? The complaint seems to be "don't give them another excuse to hate us". But the thing is, that those who hate us will hate us regardless of any member of the military (or even civilian politicians). It gets into why they hate pluralistic societies, and that's a debate for another time. But the point is that no matter what you do, or how you gag Boykin (or anyone else) they will STILL find a reason.

As for me, while I don't share his views, I'd rather have him fighting for us than not on a purely selfish, practical level. He has the training, skills, and experience. He can do damage to our enemies, and that's what we pay him and the Army for. Further, I doubt any Muslims are going to change their minds about the US or the West based on him. Those who want to use it as an excuse will. But, as above, they would anyways. If he were a deaf mute then it'd be Bush, if not Bush, then Rumsfeld, and if not Rumsfeld.. well. the list goes on and on.

Thanks for the polite commentary.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[sailor]

Pentagon deleted part of official's apology (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/10/20/boykin.statement/index.html)

An apology from Lt. Gen. William Boykin for casting the war on terrorism in terms that offended some Muslims originally included a promise that he would no longer speak at religious events, CNN has learned.

But that language was deleted on the advice of Pentagon attorneys and the press office, a Pentagon spokesman said.

Among the other excluded language:

• "I believe that God intervenes in the affairs of men, to include nations, as Benjamin Franklin so eloquently stated. Yes I believe that George Bush was placed in the White House by God as well as Bill Clinton and other presidents."

• "As a Christian I believe that there is a spiritual war that is continuous as articulated in the Bible. It is not confined to the war of terrorism."

• "The evidence that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles is undeniable. We are a nation of many cultures and religions but the evidence of our foundation is historic."