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Boucanier
03-17-2000, 03:28 PM
Lot of threads/posts about music/albums/etc. lately. Lets cut to the chase. In the genre of Rock n Roll only who or what is...

1. The Greatest Band Ever
2. The Greatest Album Ever (original material only. No Best of, Greatest Hits, Etc.)
3. The Greatest Song Ever
4. The Greatest Guitarist Ever (Since Rock n Roll revolves around this instrument so much)

My answers:

1. The Allman Brothers Band
2. Eat A Peach by The Allman Brothers
3. Undecided (Just too many to choose from)
4. Eric Clapton

Let the Games(and or Flames)begin.

Sake Samurai
03-17-2000, 03:38 PM
First of all, Boucanier, you're obviously old and retarded :), secondly this is a preposterous debate.

1. Cathedral
2. Toss up between Forest of Equilibrium & The Ethereal Mirror.
3. Dependent upon mood
4. Gary Jennings, Jimmy Page or Tony Iomi



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Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream.

Typo Negative
03-17-2000, 04:17 PM
Doesn't seem like a great debate, but I'll play.
Band: The Ramones
Album: Dawn of the Dickies
Song: Miserlou
Guitarist: The Reverend Horton Heat

At least, thats how it seems to me.

Arnold Winkelried
03-17-2000, 04:29 PM
1. The Greatest Band Ever - The Beatles. Not only for their music, but for their influence on all of rock music.
2. The Greatest Album Ever (original material only. No Best of, Greatest Hits, Etc.) - The Clash, London Calling.
3. The Greatest Song Ever - Too difficult.
4. The Greatest Guitarist Ever (Since Rock n Roll revolves around this instrument so much) - How can one disagree with Jimi Hendrix?

JoeyBlades
03-17-2000, 05:20 PM
Greatest in what sense?

Made the greatest amount of money or had the greatest influence?

I tend to favor influence over commercial success, though sometimes these overlap. Here's my picks:

1. Alice Cooper (before Alice, music was just something you listened to)
2. Abbey Road
3. Bohemian Rhapsody (this is a tough one, there's so many to choose from)
4. Duh... Hendrix


NOTE: I had the Beatles as a close second for most influential (greatest) band and "Dark Side Of The Moon" as a close second for most influential (greatest) album.

Max Torque
03-17-2000, 08:31 PM
Once, years ago, I got into an argument with a guy who thought that the Smashing Pumpkins were the greatest band ever. He said his claims were based on talent. My response: if the talent of the individual members is the main criterion, then the Traveling Wilburys is the greatest band of all time.

Album? Close call. In my mind, there are five -- Kiss: Destroyer, Pink Floyd: Dark Side Of The Moon AND The Wall, Beatles: Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, and Blondie: Parallel Lines. Dispute that last if you will, but Blondie was a major revolution, a band with a female lead that wasn't a 'girl band.'

Song? Like I could choose....

Guitarist. Oy. Too many. Jimi Hendrix, Randy Rhodes, Steve Vai, Eddie Van Halen, Joe Satriani, Yngwie J. Malmsteen, Jeff Beck, Stevie Ray Vaughn....if you hadn't placed the 'rock' restriction, I'd say the best living guitarist is Adrian Legg.

Lawrence
03-17-2000, 08:57 PM
Ok, I'm in.

Greatest Band: The Stones
Greatest Solo Artist: Bob Dylan
Greatest Album: Blonde on Blonde, Exile on Main Street, London Calling
Greatest Song: Tough one. How about "Brown-Eyed Girl", "California Dreamin'", "Search and Destroy", "Heroin", "Once in a Lifetime", "Smells like Teen Spirit", "Tumbling Dice", "Like a Hurricane", "All the Young Dudes", and "Waterloo Sunset" for a mix-and-match? And, yes, I know I left out a lot of great ones.
Greatest Guitarist: Keith Richards, Chuck Berry, whoever the guy was on all those old Motown songs (and I guarantee you it was the same guy).

astorian
03-17-2000, 11:30 PM
I can give an answer to all those questions, but would my answers be the same as the were 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 20 years ago? No... and in many cases, it's not that my tastes have changed, it's just that I got tired of hearing certain songs. I mean, for a long time, "Who's Next" was my #1 album of all time. Today, I'm rather bored with it, mainly because AOR radio played "Won't Get Fooled Again" and "Baba O'Riley" to death! Is that Pete Townshend's fault? No, and it's probably unfair of me to drop a brilliant album from the top spot just because it's been overplayed... still, I ENVY any kid hearing "Who's Next" for the very first time.

Best band of all time: The Beatles, easily.

Best Album: My favorite album changes regularly... currently, it's "Making Movies" by Dire Straits (but it has been "Who's Next," "Revolver" by the Beatles, "Disraeli Gears" by Cream, "Back in Black" by AC/DC, "The Notorious Byrd Brothers," and the utterly magnificent "The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society").

Best Guitarist: Tough call... I'll nominate David Gilmour of Pink Floyd. However, it's worth asking: George Harrison was no virtuoso on guitar and neither was Keith Richards or Dave Davies. But would the BEatles, Stones or Kinks have been any better with David Gilmour (or Eddie Van Halen or Robert Fripp or Jimi Hendrix) on guitar? No. So, don't judge these things in a vacuum.

Fretful Porpentine
03-18-2000, 09:35 AM
Oh, what the heck. Not that I think this is actually a debate, or anything.

Greatest band: The Beatles (duh).

Greatest album: The Velvet Underground and Nico. (Runners-up: Van Morrison's Astral Weeks, the Byrds' Sweetheart of the Rodeo, and of course the White Album.)

Greatest song: "Like a Rolling Stone."

Greatest guitarist: Hendrix (duh, again).

Rousseau
03-18-2000, 10:00 AM
I kinda dislike having to pick ONE artist/album/song that I think is THE BEST, so I'll pick five for each, in no particular order:
Band: The Band; The Rolling Stones; The Beatles; Led Zepplin; the Grateful Dead.
Solo Artist: Dylan; Clapton; Hendrix; Joplin; BB King.
Album: Houses of the Holy; Blood on the Tracks; The Last Waltz (if live performance recordings count...I think they should); Derek and the Dominoes; Highway 61 Revisited.
Song: Stairway to Heaven; Like a Rolling Stone; Tangled Up in Blue; The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down; Lover, You Should've Come Over.
Guitarist: Hendrix, Clapton, King, Robertson, Garcia.

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"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it." -Winston Churchill

the first supraliminal
03-18-2000, 10:01 AM
Jimi Fuckin' Hendrix



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There's always another beer.

CliffSchaffer
03-20-2000, 04:10 AM
Greatest band: Beatles. You can argue about who is in second place, but there is no argument about who is in first (with record sales now into the billions).

Greatest guitarist: Jimi Hendrix. Again, no question. If you have another answer, then you weren't lucky enough to see him.

Eric Clapton has told about when he met Hendrix. He said he, Pete Townshend, Jeff Beck, and Jimmy Page were sitting around jamming when this unknown guy asked if he could sit in. Before long, the collected greatest guitarists of rock and roll had to just sit down and watch.

I have seen all of them, and none was close to Hendrix. All of them were great, but none were close to Hendrix. Jimi played with two hands, with one hand, with one hand behind his back, between his lags, behind his head, with his teeth, with his elbow, and every way you can imagine, and never missed a note. You could watch him do it and you still couldn't believe it. He was a guitarist of another scale, entirely.

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World's Largest Online Library of Drug Policy - http://www.druglibrary.org

Manduck
03-20-2000, 09:43 PM
Band: The Beatles
Album: probably Revolver
Song: Hard to say, because there are so many great songs, but I think You Really Got Me by the Kinks is the closest thing there is to pure distilled essence of rock'n'roll, so that will be my pick.
Guitarist: Hendrix of course.

CliffSchaffer
03-21-2000, 05:15 AM
Greatest Album:
Using its influence on rock and roll as a criteria, the greatest would be Sergeant Pepper by the Beatles. It has had more impact on the direction of rock and roll than any single album before or since.

For those of you who may be too young to remember, here is what happened, in a nutshell. In 1963, the Number One hit was Sugar Shack by Jimmy Gilmer and the Fireballs. By 1968, Jimi Hendrix was playing Purple Haze. The Beatles were responsible for much of that change, and Sergeant Pepper specifically put the world on notice that rock and roll wasn't the same anymore.

Joe_Cool
03-21-2000, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Lawrence:
Greatest Guitarist: Keith Richards, Chuck Berry, whoever the guy was on all those old Motown songs (and I guarantee you it was the same guy).

Ok,
Band: Probably Van Halen (part 1. no hagar, no extreme). The Ramones are up there too.
Album: Tough question. Either Van Halen/1984, (on the heavier side) Anthrax/Among the Living, or Suicidal Tendencies/How Will I Laugh Tomorrow When I Can't Even Smile Today?
Song: Also really tough. People Who Died (the Jim Carroll Band)? Bohemian Rhapsody? Paradise City (Guns 'n' Roses)? Maybe one of those.
Guitarist: Finally, an easy one. Ted Nugent. The guy is amazing.


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There are no dangerous weapons,
Only dangerous men.
-----
Joe Cool

Joe_Cool
03-21-2000, 06:39 PM
Oh yeah. I forgot my whole reason for posting on this thread:

Originally posted by Lawrence:
whoever the guy was on all those old Motown songs (and I guarantee you it was the same guy).
The session guitarist. You might (?) be thinking of Steve Cropper? He wrote "Green Onions" and played on that record (Booker T. & the MG's) and about a hundred other songs from various people.

He was also the lead guitarist in the Blues Brothers.

------------------
There are no dangerous weapons,
Only dangerous men.
-----
Joe Cool

CliffSchaffer
03-21-2000, 08:28 PM
Just to get the argument going:

Van Halen never had the impact on rock and roll that the Beatles did. Nobody ever dominated the charts, sold more records, or had more influence on the rest of rock and roll than the Beatles did. There was a time when the rock and roll world waited for the next Beatle album to see what rock and roll would be like.

When the white album came out, I remember one record store that had them in piles in the front window on the day they were released to the public. The piles completely covered the entire window, from top to bottom. There were literally thousands. I went by the next day and the piles were just about gone. That sort of thing has never happened for any other group.

As for the guitarist, I have seen Ted Nugent and Hendrix. I would call Nugent "interesting". Hendrix was "amazing". I don't think Nugent himself would put himself in the same league as Hendrix. I am certain that Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, and a long list of other greats wouldn't think they were the equal of Hendrix.

JoeyBlades
03-22-2000, 09:06 AM
Alright, since CliffSchaffer struck the first real blow, now it's time to mix it up...

Gotta agree with Cliff on the relative influence of Van Halen. True, Eddie has probably done more to give guitarist a kick in the pants than anyone since Hendrix, the overall influence of the band is questionable and cannot be compared to the likes of the Beatles. As I said previously, if were just the musical contribution, I would have picked the Beatles myself, however I'm looking at the big picture. That's why I voted for Alice Cooper. I know most of you probably dismissed this rather quickly, but think about it...

Before Alice, this was how people used to describe a good concert: "Well, the band came on. They stood around playing their instruments for a while. A couple of them sang a bit, then Pete smashed his guitar. Man, it was a great show!" I saw Alice on the Billion Dollar Babies tour - it was my first concert. There were theatrics, stabbing baby dolls, a beheading, dancing toothbrush - all tied to the individual themes of the songs and tied to the central theme of maniacal horror. The lyrics were witty and fully of self mocking irony and, BTW, the music was pretty damned good! I saw a couple of concerts after that, including the Boss who was supposed to have a great show... Ordinary rock shows paled in comparison. I've heard many musicians credit Alice with having a huge influence in their musical careers. Alice taught the world that the show is more than simply music and he taught the music industry that the music can tell a story. "Welcome To My Nightmare" is often held to be the first, and by many accounts, the best concept album ever recorded.

Of course, Cliff's point was with respect to record sales. Yep, the Beatles were much more commercially acceptable than Alice.


Ted Nugent? He did have a cool guitar, but as a player, I would rank him as only mediocre and he has had virtually zero influence on the music industry. His main contribution was over-the-top, "gonzo" attitude and loudness. I saw Ted in concert a couple of times and I have to say that you have to be a masochist to listen to Nugent live more than twice in a lifetime... I thought my ears were gonna start bleeding!

I gave Hendrix the nod, from an influence standpoint. Now Hendrix did not have the technical skills of a Steve Vai, Eric Johnson or Stanley Jordan, so I wouldn't call him the greatest from a technical standpoint. But without Jimi, these other guys would probably be pumping gas at the local Texaco.


astorian wrote:


Best Guitarist: Tough call... I'll nominate David Gilmour of Pink Floyd.


Good pick. Gilmour is way up there on my list. A frind of mine once pointed out, back in the hey day of "The Wall", how you could hear people on the street singing the lead guitar part of "Comfortably Numb". There's not many guitar leads that inspire that kind of behavior. David Gilmour is one of the most lyrical guitarists around, but I don't think he's had more influnce on music than Jimi Hendrix.

03-22-2000, 09:10 AM
Band: Ramones
Album: haven't heard enough to say
Song: Ice Ice Baby(I know you think I'm kidding)
Guitarist: Hendrix, of course


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Donuts, and the promise of more donuts to come-Homer Simpson.

SingleDad
03-22-2000, 11:40 AM
When I think of "greatness" I think of a mythic, larger than life, quality. It's not just a matter of technical ability, or market share. Michael Jackson and Garth Brooks are certainly very popular, but do they have the touch of enduring greatness? I don't think that's established yet, perhaps never.

Rock 'n' Roll is energy. When the beat hits your soul, your mind is captured, duct-taped and dumped in the storeroom, your groin gets hot and your body starts dancing of its own accord, well that's Rock.

If we're going to talk about Rock 'n' Roll greatness, we must start with The King. Elvis is not the greatest anything of Rock, he is Rock. Every other performer can only aspire to and sometimes achieve greatness; Elvis came as the close to godhood as any mortal may.

Then there's The Beatles. While they certainly acheived greatness, I maintain they achieved it as themselves, not as exemplars of the Rock 'n' Roll genre. They never had the raw visceral energy that characterizes true Rock 'n' Roll. I maintain there never was a single Beatles song that truly Rocked.

The same goes for bands like Pink Floyd and the Grateful Dead. Definitely greats in world of music, but they derived from Rock, they never exemplified it.

No, the band that truly captured and defined Rock 'n' Roll must always be The Rolling Stones.

And there's no doubt that Jimi Hendrix defined the Rock 'n' Roll guitar. There are others who perhaps surpassed him in technique, but no one comes close to him in energy, power, and raw creativity.

I believe there can never be a truly great Rock 'n' Roll album or song. Rock is not about the music itself, but using the music to release your animal soul from the bond of the mind. Just as there can be no true Jazz recording, since if it's played the same way twice, it ain't Jazz, there can be no true Rock recording. Any recording is a pale imitation of the real stuff, which you have to experience live.

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"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away". - Phillip K. Dick

CliffSchaffer
03-22-2000, 02:03 PM
Re Alice Cooper as the greatest - I don't think so. He did some unusual, for the time, theatrics but he never came close to the influence on the rest of the music world that the Beatles did. By the same standard of measure used for Alice, you could nominate Kiss and Ozzy Osborne as the greatest.

As for the Stones, even Mick Jagger admits that John Lennon and Paul McCartney taught the Stones how to write songs. I would agree that, if you are talking about a concert band, (that is, live shows) the Stones are probably the greatest. But that's only because the Beatles stopped giving concerts and broke up. At any time when the two bands were still playing, Beatles tickets were always harder to get than Stones tickets.

As for the Allman Brothers as the greatest -- they are certainly a good band, but puhleeze . . . .

As for greatest guitarist, there seems to be a majority consensus on Hendrix - and I would guess that even some of the people voting for him haven't seen him live.

JoeyBlades
03-22-2000, 04:40 PM
By the same standard of measure used for Alice, you could nominate Kiss and Ozzy Osborne as the greatest.


Ahhh... but you make my argument. Kiss and Ozzy would never have had an audience, had Alice not paved the way. Many other artists claim that Alice Cooper had a huge influence on their musical careers - you'd probably be surprised.

It's not just the theatrics, that I credit Alice with, it's the whole visual show. I honestly believe that without Alice (or some other pioneer like him) every rock and roll show would feel just like a Doobie Brothers concert... not that there's anything wrong with that... it's just a bit subdued. Of course, Jimi was tourching his axe at about that time and The Who were smashing their kit, so maybe it would have evolved... eventually.

Joe_Cool
03-22-2000, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by JoeyBlades:
Ahhh... but you make my argument. Kiss and Ozzy would never have had an audience, had Alice not paved the way. Many other artists claim that Alice Cooper had a huge influence on their musical careers - you'd probably be surprised....

You make a very good point. I hadn't thought of Alice, not because I don't consider him great, but just because there are so many bands that it's hard to think of everybody. I may have to amend my post.

While it's true that Elvis and the Beatles defined rock & roll in its beginnings, the genre has moved along quite a bit. For example, for raw energy from the band or the crowd, compare Elvis with Pantera. There is no comparison--it's not a fair contrast. Alice Cooper took an existing art form and EXTENDED it into something entirely new, but without losing what it was about originally.

There have been several redefinitions of Rock in the last few decades, starting with Metal and Punk in the '70s, what I consider "Rock" and New Wave in the '80s, Glam/Hair metal in the late '80s & early '90s, the current waves of Alterna-Pop (Rap/metal/sorta-punk fusion) and Hardcore (bands like Sevendust and KMFDM)...

But I think that Alice Cooper probably has made bigger contributions than all of that--if not for him and what he did, we'd still be snapping our fingers and humming "Hard Day's Night".

NOW.
In defense of Ted Nugent, There have been more technically proficient guitarists (wizards like Satriani and Vai) and people with more soul (Stevie Ray Vaughan)...Even people who made bigger contributions and had wider influence (Hendrix). But considered across the board, I think he has a better combination of all those traits than anyone I'm aware of. He's proficient, he plays good music, he's innovative, and he has personality and energy to spare (I doubt anybody can deny that). And I'll bet that even though not a lot of guitarists credit him specifically, he's had a bigger influence than you guys give him credit for.

Besides, I saw him on a kid's show called Newton's Apple, explaining (and demonstrating) Audio Feedback and how it can be used positively. :) Just for that he deserves to be the best. hehe

------------------
There are no dangerous weapons,
Only dangerous men.
-----
Joe Cool

edbenson
03-22-2000, 06:56 PM
Not to knock the OP, I love this kind of discussion, but I still think Keith Richards gave the best answer to this question when someone asked him he thought the Stones really were the "Worlds Greatest Rock and Roll Band." Keith answered that the worlds greatest Rock and Roll band was some bunch of kids playing in a club somewhere that night that no one had ever heard of, and that it would be someone else the next night.

CliffSchaffer
03-22-2000, 09:25 PM
It's great to be in a non-critical argument for once. However it comes out, it will be a good game in the meantime.

Ahhh... but you make my argument. Kiss and Ozzy would never have had an audience, had Alice not paved the way.

Such as the audience was. I wouldn't call them the mainstream, and in their best year, I doubt they ever reached as many people as the Beatles reached on the single day they released the White Album. If that's your criteria, then Led Zeppelin would rank above them for spawning the much greater genre of heavy metal.

Many other artists claim that Alice Cooper had a huge influence on their musical careers - you'd probably be surprised.

I would be happy to compare it with the list of artists who say that the Beatles were a huge influence. One that comes to mind right now is the Beach Boys, who some would argue are a contender in their own right. Another would be the Stones, whom they taught how to write songs. They were also responsible for the "British Invasion" among other things.

It's not just the theatrics, that I credit Alice with, it's the whole visual show.

Yes, as opposed to the actual music.

I honestly believe that without Alice (or some other pioneer like him) every rock and roll show would feel just like a Doobie Brothers concert... not that there's anything wrong with that... it's just a bit subdued. Of course, Jimi was tourching his axe at about that time and The Who were smashing their kit, so maybe it would have evolved... eventually.

There is always someone looking to go over the top in Rock and Roll. That's part of what it is all about. But I don't think that really qualifies to go into the top ranks. Personally, I hate to knock your favorite, but I don't think I would rate Alice Cooper even in the Top 10 Greatest. Probably not even the Top 20. Certainly not by record sales, and not by influence, either.

The_Peyote_Coyote
03-23-2000, 12:05 AM
Greatest band: The Allman Brothers
Greatest album: "Blood on the Tracks" -- Bob Dylan
Greatest song: "Just My Imagination (Runnin' Away With Me) -- the Temptations
Greatest guitarist: James Marshall "Jimi" Hendrix

flood
11-19-2002, 11:50 AM
Wow, this one is so incredibly easy
1. Led Zeppelin
2. Animals: Pink Floyd
3. too many to choose from as well (leaning towards dazed and confused live BBC Sessions)
4. who else? Jimmy Page

flood
11-19-2002, 11:52 AM
c'mon guys its not that difficult :)

ChrisG1016
11-19-2002, 12:12 PM
Erm, Ok why not...

Greatest Band: Nirvana. At 31 I am too young to recall the beatles, so that undoubtedly slants my view. However based on my lifetime, and personal tastes, Nirvana was the largest impact band I ever had the opportunity to live through and experience.

Greatest Album: Probably Alanis Morrisette's Jagged Little Pill. For an unknown to have that many quality songs, and lets face it a lot of them were large hits, was the determining factor in saying this was 'The Album' for me.

Greatest Song: Not really sure. There are several that I think are timeless and love, but to say one is the best? Can't do it.

Greatest Guitarist: Steve Vai. Even by his pears he is considered one of the greatest ever, with Joe Satriani and several other people who slip my mind at the moment. But again based on my experinces I prefered Steve Vai and as such give him my vote here.

On to the arguing now!!!

Seriously I see a lot of Beetles up here, and I was shocked to not see any Elvis fans (What no Elvis Sighting today?) speaking out. But after reading everyones thoughts, and opinions I think I see the genius of this question being all of us dating ourselves in one time period or another.

Boucanier, excellent thread...

Pythagras
11-19-2002, 01:32 PM
Band: The Smashing Pumpkins
Greatest Album: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Greatest Song: toughy...
Guitarist: James Iha

astorian
11-19-2002, 01:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Boucanier
[B]Lot of threads/posts about music/albums/etc. lately. Lets cut to the chase. In the genre of Rock n Roll only who or what is...

1. The Greatest Band Ever
2. The Greatest Album Ever (original material only. No Best of, Greatest Hits, Etc.)
3. The Greatest Song Ever
4. The Greatest Guitarist Ever (Since Rock n Roll revolves around this instrument so much)

]

1. Beatles (I know, so obvious, it hardly bears repeating, but there it is.)

2. Hmmm... even though I've heard it so many times that I'm sick of nearly every song on it, and haven't played it in many years, I'll go with "Who's Next." Because the first trillion times I played it, it was magnificent.

3. I'll change my mind in 30 seconds, but at the moment, it's "Expresso Love," by Dire Straits.

4. Oh... David Gilmour of Pink FLoyd.

mack
11-19-2002, 05:02 PM
Greatest Guitarist Ever?

hmmmmm.

You can make a case for Hendrix. He was mind-blowing. Multidimensional. From another planet. Touched by God. That sort of thing.

You can make a case for Clapton, Page, Richards, Beck (Jeff), Gilmour, Duane Allman, those guys. They weren't Hendrix, but their playing was more accessible. It's easier to cop a Clapton lick than a Hendrix lick. I'd separate out Gilmour as more of a creature of the studio, though.

You can sort of make a case for Eddie Van Halen. Not my cup of tea but undeniably influential.

Heck, you can even make a case for Bob Dylan. He was the troubadour with a guitar that gave rise to millions of troubadours with guitars. Not that that's necessarily a good thing.

Ya know, all those guys are great, but the greatest guitar playing I've ever encountered, playing that brings tears to my eyes, that really moves me, is (was) done by Jerry Garcia rippin' it up with the Grateful Dead. Nothing beats that in my book.

MEBuckner
11-19-2002, 05:30 PM
Moderator's Note: Since we now have a place to put this thread, I'll move it to Cafe Society.

Jack Batty
11-19-2002, 05:33 PM
Stevie Ray Vaughn only gets one mention in this thread?

I'm appalled.

Best Band: The Beatles
Best Album: The Wall
Best Song: Stairway -- I don't care if it's a cliche.
Best Guitarist: Stevie. Chrissakes. Stevie goddamned Ray fucking Vaughn.

Hello?

Fibonacci
11-19-2002, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by JoeyBlades
...As I said previously, if were just the musical contribution, I would have picked the Beatles myself, however I'm looking at the big picture. That's why I voted for Alice Cooper. I know most of you probably dismissed this rather quickly, but think about it...

Before Alice, this was how people used to describe a good concert: "Well, the band came on. They stood around playing their instruments for a while. A couple of them sang a bit, then Pete smashed his guitar. Man, it was a great show!" I saw Alice on the Billion Dollar Babies tour - it was my first concert. There were theatrics, stabbing baby dolls, a beheading, dancing toothbrush - all tied to the individual themes of the songs and tied to the central theme of maniacal horror. The lyrics were witty and fully of self mocking irony and, BTW, the music was pretty damned good! I saw a couple of concerts after that, including the Boss who was supposed to have a great show... Ordinary rock shows paled in comparison. I've heard many musicians credit Alice with having a huge influence in their musical careers. Alice taught the world that the show is more than simply music and he taught the music industry that the music can tell a story. "Welcome To My Nightmare" is often held to be the first, and by many accounts, the best concept album ever recorded.


Of course the Mothers Of Invention and the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band were doing theatrics, writing witty lyrics full of self mocking irony long before it made any money.
In fact, it was Frank Zappa that first signed Alice Cooper to a record deal, putting out his first three albums.

Greatest band ever - The Beatles, 'nuff said

Greatest album - Sgt. Pepper. It changed the whole rock world. It showed everyone that an album could be much more than a collection of singles. The boundaries were broken.

Greatest song - too hard to narrow down.

Greatest guitarist - I saw Hendrix twice and Cream three times. Too close to make a call. I'd even have to throw Townshend and Zappa into the mix. Different styles, but truly masters of the guitar.
Another guitarist that often gets overlooked is Roy Buchanan. It was obvious he knew the sound that could be made by every molecule of his guitar. The first time I went to see him, a guitarist friend of mine was working on the stage crew. He came out before the show, after the sound check, shaken. He said he watched Roy do the sound check with a can of Miller in one hand, playing Malaguena with the other hand. He was ready to give up the guitar then and there.

RealityChuck
11-19-2002, 06:38 PM
Greatest Group: The Beatles, with the Who a distant second.
Greatest Album: Allman Brothers Band Live at Fillmore East
Greatest Song: Bruce Springsteen's "Rosalita"
Greatest Guitarist: Duane Allman

Sam Stone
11-19-2002, 11:55 PM
Okay, if we're going to talk about the band that purely embodied the spirit of Rock N' Roll, it can be none other than The Who. Not only did they write some of the greatest kick-all rock and roll of all time, but they lived it. Keith Moon died being a crazy man. Pete Townshend rammed a whammy bar through his hand. Their hotel room destruction capability alone would qualify them for the hall of fame.

gex gex
11-20-2002, 06:28 AM
I could never definitively answer any of these question. However, I'll give answers, just for my own interest.

1. The Greatest Band Ever

The Velvet Underground - The Beatles were heroes to most, but they never meant shit to me. Paul McCartney sang Hey Jude, Lou Reed did Venus in Furs. That sums it up there. I could count on one hand the number of songs that the Beatles did that still stand up today, but Stephanie Says or All Tomorrows Parties still sound fresh. The Velvets invented music for people who didn't always top the charts, who didn't want to go the easy route with their music and who understood that you needed a little bit more than love.

Nirvana - You listen and you know. Throat-shredding, mind-blowing rock; catchy and memorable yet uncompromising and powerful. Whether it's the riff-o-rama of Smells Like Teen Spirit or Lithium or the ferocious noise of their earlier material, or say Territorial Pissings you can just tell that Nirvana were special.

The Pixies - because without them, there would be no indie music in the last fifteen years, and if there was, it would sound a lot different.

R.E.M. - because without them, no-one would have ever heard any indie music in the last fifteen years.

Radiohead - Have you heard Ok Computer? Then you know.


I'll think about the other questions, but they'll probably be too hard.

plnnr
11-20-2002, 07:40 AM
I"m perplexed as to why "Eat A Peach" was named "Best Album" in the OP, and not "The Fillmore Concerts," which contains much better versions of the same material.

Labdad
11-20-2002, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried
1. The Greatest Band Ever - The Beatles. Not only for their music, but for their influence on all of rock music.
2. The Greatest Album Ever (original material only. No Best of, Greatest Hits, Etc.) - The Clash, London Calling.
3. The Greatest Song Ever - Too difficult.
4. The Greatest Guitarist Ever (Since Rock n Roll revolves around this instrument so much) - How can one disagree with Jimi Hendrix?
Hats off to Arnold! I agree with picks 1, 2, and 4 completely. And it is too difficult to pick the greatest song ever. Hell, my opinion on that changes just about every day, but today I'd have to say "96 Tears" by ? and the Mysterians.

brianjedi
11-20-2002, 10:30 AM
Greatest Band: Nirvana
Greatest Album: Master of Puppets, Metallica
Greatest Song: Free Bird, Skynyrd
Greatest Guitarist: Depends on the criteria. I'm going to agree with picking Stevie Ray Vaughan.

-brianjedi

Dragon Phoenix
11-20-2002, 11:02 AM
Greatest Band Ever: Genesis (seventies line-up)
Greatest Album Ever: Selling England by the pound/Genesis
Greatest Song Ever: Mad man moon/Genesis
Greatest Guitarist Ever: Carlos Santana

Ol'Gaffer
11-20-2002, 12:39 PM
Arrrggh. One slip of a finger and an entire post...vaporized. Here it goes again.


Greatest Band Ever: The King. Even though he became a fat, bloated, constipated lounge singer, hated the Beatles, and was an unintentionally comedic actor, he was a gifted performer and enormously talented. His influence on popular culture, let alone music, is rivaled only by the Beatles. Close seconds: The Clash, Nirvana, The Beatles, and Bruce Springsteen.

Greatest Album Ever: Let it Bleed by the Rolling Stones. I am not even a huge Stones fan, but this album is, from beginning to end, unbelievable. Runners-up: American Beauty by the Grateful Dead, American Recordings by Johnny Cash, Revolver by the Beatles, Pink Floyd's The Wall, and London Calling by the Clash.

Greatest Song Ever: Whipping Post by the Allmann Brothers (but only because I heard it this morning on my way to work. I'll have a new favorite on the way home).

Greatest Guitarist Ever: The two-headed SRV and Hendrix monster. How do you pick one over the other?

Exapno Mapcase
11-20-2002, 02:01 PM
Band: The Beatles. Transformed music in 1964. Transformed music in 1965. Transformed music in 1966. Transformed music in 1967. All current pop music derives from the Beatles. Not even room for argument.

Album: This is the hard one for me. If I had to listen to one album over and over... it would be a mix tape. But in terms of influence and importance, Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited.

Song: You're all mostly too young to remember the critical argument about the Apollonian and Dionysian strains in pop music, and consider yourself lucky, for your brains would melt if forced through a session of that malarky. But the one underlying point that meant something was that rock was a cultural meltdown of every sort of music that came before it, emphasis on R&B, country, Tin Pan Alley, and folk. Therefore, the greatest songs are the ones that blend in different musical types to create an effect greater than the sun of the parts. My nominees are "Layla," Derek and the Dominos, "All Along the Watchtower," the Hendrix version, and "Jessica" from the Allman Brothers. Note that each features one or more of the greatest guitarists ever, and I doubt that that is any coincidence. (Trivia: Dave Mason played acoustic guitar on "Watchtower".) I waiver among these, but I think I come down on "All Along the Watchtower" because it showed what rock could do with a folk tune and because when you stand between the speakers full up as that guitar chord slides from speaker to speaker it is a religious experience.

Guitarist: Yep. Hendrix.

samarm
11-20-2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Fibonacci
Of course the Mothers Of Invention and the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band were doing theatrics, writing witty lyrics full of self mocking irony long before it made any money.

Fibonacci you know the Bonzo Dog band? I thought I was the only one who liked them - I got into them through my Dad.

I loved songs like Urban Spaceman and Monster Mash, and all the 1920s pastiches!

In answer to the OP:

Greatest Band Ever: The Beatles8
Greatest Album Ever: Wish You Were Here
Greatest Song Ever: Total Eclipse of the Heart
Greatest Guitarist Ever: Gary Moore

samarm
11-20-2002, 02:58 PM
The Beatles8 are a relatively unknown nu-metal group from Finland, by the way...

Damn keyboard! :smack:

Spectre of Pithecanthropus
11-20-2002, 03:32 PM
They mentioned the Velvets and not the Doors? Wouldn't have happened in the '80's, dag nabbit!

Kyomara
11-20-2002, 10:04 PM
First let me just say that Seargent Pepper's is one of the worst albums ever. I love the Beatles, I have a lot of favorite Beatles songs, and I'll even confess that most of the songs on Seargent Pepper's get my toes tapping, but it is packed with so much trite, goofy, crap that my most recent session with it left me feeling nothing but resentment. And every Paul McCartney song on that album pointed the way to everything that I now hate about Paul McCartney. I don't care how many people have been fooled into thinking that this is one of the greatest albums of all time: you've all been had.

Also, as great as the Beatles were, I must say that most bands that cite them as a major influence have a tendency to suck. Do not misunderstand me: I do agree that the Beatles have had a massive influence, and that many great bands probably have them to thank as a minor influence, but bands that try to follow in their footsteps make me ill.

And please insert here the usual rant about Nirvana and how they were good but not great, Kurt Cobain was talented but not a genius, Nirvana is only considered so great because their biggest fans never bothered to scratch the surface and check out the better bands that influenced Nirvana, etc etc etc ad nauseum.

Last thing: I think there are a lot of ways to define greatness. You can define it by sales if you like, and/or by how many people tend to agree on the greatness of the band in question. The Beatles fit pretty nicely in there, because they sold a lot of records and it is quite rare that you find someone who won't even allow that the Beatles were really good, if not fantastic. However, there are plenty of great bands today who owe very little stylistically to the Beatles (or even to Jimmy Hendrix, for that matter), and whose attitude toward the Beatles doesn't rise far above "like." "Greatest Band" is a very personal thing, and need not have its basis in what everyone else seems to think.

Thank you. Now:

Greatest Band: What Keith Richards said. But my personal favorite at the moment would have to be Shellac.

Greatest Album: The Cardigans: Life. Not a bad song on it, and the arrangements are perfect.

Greatest Song: ??

Best Guitarist: I always liked Joey Santiago of the Pixies. There is no one quite like him.

Kyomara
11-20-2002, 10:09 PM
Oh yeah, and I almost forgot...

I totally second the nominations for Elvis. Whatever kind of rock 'n' roll it is, if you're on stage dancing and singing to a crowd and you've got any kind of beat behind you, you owe it all to the King. He was the first to make it cool.

John Carter of Mars
11-20-2002, 10:29 PM
Posted by JoeyBlades: "Before Alice, this was how people used to describe a good concert: "Well, the band came on. They stood around playing their instruments for a while. A couple of them sang a bit, then Pete smashed his guitar. Man, it was a great show!"

*Sigh* Another dude that never saw Elvis perform live......or Chuck Berry, or.... just fergit it.

Stevie Ray Vaughn on the guitar, Beatles for the band, and the rest is way subjective.