Battlestar Galactica Tonight! [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

Declan

12-08-2003, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by CaptBushido
An hour in, and I am really enjoying it.

Once again, though, I have no preconceived disposition, as many fans of the original show might.

Besides, who the hell listens to what IGN says?

I was one of the people who watched the original series and yes , this one has gotten my attention in a good way. While I dont like the modifications to the Galactica itself , in real life ships get upgraded and modified, so I can live with it.

So far its the small details , like as other people have mentioned about the vernier jets for translating in flight , the mag cat for launching the vipers , the Awacs or ComCom that was accompaning the squadron.

So far episode one gets a passing grade from me

Declan

Revtim

12-08-2003, 10:47 PM

I like how the first war 40 years ago was much like the old series, so it is in some stylistic sense a sequel.

brianmelendez

12-08-2003, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by Revtim
I like how the first war 40 years ago was much like the old series, so it is in some stylistic sense a sequel. I was wondering whether the war of 40 years ago was the same war from the original series, or a war that occurred before the original series began. After all, didn't the first series open with the Cylons breaking a peace treaty?

Doomtrain

12-08-2003, 11:08 PM

I enjoyed it. I haven't seen the original show, so I have no conceptions there. I mainly watched it cause I said to myself, "I haven't seen a decent space-shooter show since Space: Above and Beyond." There were a couple cheeseball bits:

1. The Hot Female Sex Robot-Why are they even interested in this? If they can hack the computers so well, why not just do that? Why are Hot Female Robots always Sex Fiends? (I know, because guys write the show, but whatever)

2. The "Oh, the Psilons can attack computer networks, that's why everything's so retro and out of date." No one's heard of network security? But fine, that's why they get to use the cool old stuff.

3. The obligatory Idiot Officer That Can't Cope, in this case the XO, who I've dubbed "John McCain". Not because of his failings, but because he reminds of of John McCain.

4. The Commander Dad/Captain Kid storyline.

5. The guy giving up his seat. Aww. I wish injured-pilot-dude wouldn't have been so admirable and would've said, "Screw you guys, I'm going in the ship."

But whatever! Olmos is great as the Captain, in that "fat Kirk" kinda way. He has a great face for a grizzled old captain. The cat-shot for the ships was awesome. The little shooty-jet-things for manuvering. The minimal noise in the space sequences just make them that much spookier. The "We're in the middle of a WAR and you're listening to a SCHOOLTEACHER?!" line. Good stuff. I enjoyed it overall.

CaptBushido

12-08-2003, 11:16 PM

3. The obligatory Idiot Officer That Can't Cope, in this case the XO, who I've dubbed "John McCain". Not because of his failings, but because he reminds of of John McCain.

Similarly, whenever the Commander had his glasses on, all I could think was "Lewis Black..."

bump

12-08-2003, 11:16 PM

As a big fan of the old series, having seen every episode at least twice, I'm giving the new one a big thumbs-up so far.'

Great effects, interesting twists, and it's not a slavish remake of the original.

That reviewer at IGN is a f***ing twit. He's comparing a 2 episode miniseries with a 26 episode TV series. Of course there's not going to be as much character development or room to explore philosophical themes.

Why does he assume that they should have solved a cure for cancer just because they have FTL technology? We really don't know how tough that is- maybe it's a lot tougher than we realize.

The EMP thing is plain ignorant. Obviously teh Cylons are hardened against it, just like present-day military equipment is. I'm willing to bet that the things that Apollo was fiddling with at the very end tonight is something similar to that though.

And his commentary about the Cylon chick looking human. Well, the reason for that was so she could infiltrate the humans. It's not like a "walking chrome toaster" could walk around and get intelligence info. It seems kind of obvious that the Cylon ships are Cylons themselves, not just piloted by them, so they're not all human-looking

Plus, as far as I can tell, the Galactica this time around is a much more military ship than the first one- sure some characters were crying, but they did their jobs, just like the sailors at Pearl Harbor did. They seem like hard-nosed military officers trying to do their best in a hard situation- emotion is put on the back burner under those circumstances.

Hugh Jass

12-08-2003, 11:18 PM

I didn't watch the original series, but I watched this, and I enjoyed it greatly. Will this be a series if the ratings are good, or is this a true one shot deal?

elmwood

12-08-2003, 11:38 PM

I've seen the original BG TV series. It may not be hip to admit it, but I think the revival is off to a good start.

Some things I appreciated:

* High technology, but not that high-tech. For instance, Vipers and Cylon Raiders are armed with target-seeking missiles, not lasers or 1920s-style death rays.

* Society really isn't that far removed from Earth's western civilizations. No shiny uniforms that are worn by the masses, and no universally accepted culture or mindset. Was that a Rastafarian in the marketplace?

* Channel 7 news? Did they start their newscasts with reports of a house fire on the East Side of Capricawanna?

Seems like Colonial civilization and technology isn't hundreds of years ahead of Earth, but rather close to the same level. Excepting aerospace technology, of course.

Tygr

12-08-2003, 11:46 PM

Thanks, Declan, for clearing that up, just exactly what kind of ship Boomer was piloting. That had gone right over my & wifey's head.

Is that why her scopes didn't go dead with the others'? Different/better sensors? Or is that just 'cause they weren't forward enough to get caught in the jamming?

I think it's great. I watched the original series, but since I was 7 or 8 at the time, and it made sense to me then, well.... when I caught a re-run a few years back, I realized it translated to my now-grown-up tastes about as well as "Six Million Dollar Man" and "Scooby Doo" do. That is to say, I now agree with my dad - it wasn't that great a show the first time around.

This time out, they're punching up the intensity and the drama. The dialogue ain't Shakespeare, but the story is holding my interest quite well. Which is (or at least should be) a good recommendation, since I already knew the story. So I thought.

So, to list what I like about the new:
Home planet wasn't just bombed on strafing runs, like was shown in the original series opening titles. No, the entire heffing planet was nuked. Talk about something you couldn't show on network TV back in the seventies... Looks like these 'bots don't just want to subjugate humanity, which was my impression from the original series ("Cylon tyranny"...?). Nope, they're going all Berserker on 'em.

New Cylons - very cool. (Not meaning the one that looks like a human piece-o-tail either.*) Can't wait until I hear the first one say, "By your command." Also love, LOVE the self-piloting Cylon fighters. Updated design looks really sharp.

Colonel Tigh's a hard-ass, and NOT a token!

I think the dramatic elements - i.e., the conflict between Adama & Apollo, and the impending one between Adama & the President - have promise, even though they're not exactly sophisticated. Then again, story tellers haven't had enough time to develop the drama yet. And I'm wondering if that traitor fellow will wind up commanding a Cylon legion, like he did in the old series. Somehow he seems too spineless to assume a command role. Though self-preservation IS obviously his primary motivator. Except he didn't bring it fully to bear there at the crunch-time, during the lottery to get off-planet. Showed a little multi-dimensionality that Glen Larson never seemed able to inject into his characters.

Really enjoying the fully-fleshed out backstory. I don't recall much of the details of the original pilot, but I'm reasonably sure it wasn't this involved.

Anyone heard if there's going to be a mechanical dog showing up...?

All in all, judging by this opening, I wouldn't mind seeing it developed to a regular series.

*Don't gripe at me about my choice of words, when you know damn well that's the only reason she was made to look like that, whether by the Cylons OR the producers. Guess the rule has to be, "Gotta ratchet up the babe factor in a sci-fi series in order to hold the geek-boys' attentions." Purty tired of this sort o' libido-pandering...

And anyway 7-of-9 was way hotter.

Tars Tarkas

12-08-2003, 11:49 PM

1 hour in, i hate Starbuck, Snotty Kid of Commander, Hot Sex Robot, and Snotty Computer Idiot. Besides that, it's average so far.

Alzarian

12-08-2003, 11:50 PM

Quite good. I'll be tuning in tomorrow.

I did a search for some opinions by fans of the original Battlestar Galactica, and many of them were trashing the show even before it premiered because it isn't the same as the 1978 show.

I just can't understand that. Would they rather the show remain a trivial footnote of 1978? I thought this remake was done in much the same spirit as the original, only it didn't suck as much, so to speak. For BG to be a living entity, it needs to attract a new audience, and i think, based on the first two hours, that this version may run longer and be more successful than the previous version.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Earth figures in to this revamped continuity, and hope that when they do finally reach it, that they handle it better than the awkward "Galactica 1980" did.

bump

12-08-2003, 11:56 PM

Heh... Alzarian , just look one post above yours, and you'll find one of those irrational bashers.

(Does anyone else besides me have the image of Tars Tarkas as the Simpsons' Comic Book Guy?)

levdrakon

12-09-2003, 12:46 AM

Ooh. The one thing that caught me right away and made me decide to watch:

The Cylon babe snapped the little baby's neck! How cool is that? It's like they had the balls to cross a line I don't think I've ever seen crossed by evil doers before. Woo, hoo! Snap more cute little baby necks, you evil Cylons!

Odinoneeye

12-09-2003, 12:51 AM

I really liked it. I was so lost in it that I was shocked when the first hour had passed.

Did anyone else get a kind of 9/11 feel while watching Caprica get bombed? They're really playing up the sense of loss in this one.

Tars Tarkas

12-09-2003, 01:33 AM

It was okay, i'll have to catch tomorrow's at a later date since i have class (but it looked like perpetual reruns tonight, so maybe i can see it late tomorrow)

Starbuck did not cease to be annoying, if she was real i'd probably hit her with a chair.

I did like the tribal music during the fight scenes, Attack of the Clones didn't have enough of that.

Maci

12-09-2003, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by levdrakon

The Cylon babe snapped the little baby's neck! How cool is that? It's like they had the balls to cross a line I don't think I've ever seen crossed by evil doers before. Woo, hoo! Snap more cute little baby necks, you evil Cylons!

That part was hard to take, having one (not a hot cylon, the other one) asleep in the room next to me as I watched.

So do you think Baltar was replaced by a cylon? I don't know how he could have survived the shockwave otherwise.

msmith537

12-09-2003, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by fireman
Not word for word, but something about how man built the Cylons to serve man, etc. Sorry I can't be more complete, but I'm watching it now also. I was a fan of the original series, and I think this has promise. [/B]

That's basically it. They built a bunch of robots, as per basic chaos theory, the robots went crazy with the shoooooting and the cruush-ing...glavin.

I have to say I liked it overall. Here is my mixed review:

Pros
Decent atmosphere - It definitely had a 9/11 telecast meets Independence Day (maybe it's Mary McDonnell) meets Space: Above and Beyond feel to it.

Creative departure from the original show - the retro style technology and the reasons behind it.

Gone are the stupid Egyptian pharoh helmets.

Cons
Starbuck played by a lesbianized version of Dirk Benedict.

The missing afro-jive-funk of the original Boomer.

Two words - "snap zoom". Much like "lense flair" and "motion blur", a little goes a long way.

The corny looking "Decent III" style ships. Is a ship shaped like a croissant perform better in space or something? And big salmon of a Galactica is one of the least notable ships.

Call me a traditionalist but I like my killer robots to lurch around and yell *DESTROY THE HUMANOID!!* *SILENCE!!!*

Undecided
The circa 1970s memorabilia - the classic toaster robot and ships in the gift shop as well as the classic John Williams-esque theme during the air show was a little distracting and confusing. Is this take place after the show? Are these the actual events and the old show was a corney TV series about the war? What gives?

All in all, a decent movie in and of itself that is weakened by images of Lorne Green and polystyrene ships whenever someones name is mentioned.

HolyCow

12-09-2003, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by GMRyujin
I spent the day watching Farscape on SciFi and think I'll be watching the BG mini-series, since I know very little about the original show, save that Face from The A-Team used to be on it.

I hope it doesn't suck.

<thread drift> I had never seen Farscape till today. I ended up watching 4 solid hours of it. Great series! Shame it is gone. </thread drift>

Ok, I loved the new BG. I remember nearly nothing of the old one so I am not bringing any baggage with me.

The effects were great. I am glad they did not go over the top like Star Wars. Give me a plot over CGI any day. The acting was decent. I too liked the silent space flight. I am looking forward to part 2!

Doomtrain

12-09-2003, 04:48 AM

I believe there was a rumor about Farscape coming back, though I don't know what became of it. You know, I can't stop watching it. I kept going "Man, this is dumb" and not changing the channel and needing to watch more. And I have no idea why.

Alright, the baby thing disturbed me a little. It was just so gratuitous. Like "Alright, well, we have the psycho nympho robo chick, let's have...a dead baby!"

And complaining about the lack of character development? Geez, an hour in, they were still introducing new characters. I was yelling "Who cares!? These people are going to die when the big mean robots come!"

sunfish

12-09-2003, 06:33 AM

I was a big fan of the original series, even though now I find it to be incredibly hokey I wasn't quite sure whether I would like this miniseries given all the changes. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I did.

Originally posted by msmith537

The circa 1970s memorabilia - the classic toaster robot and ships in the gift shop as well as the classic John Williams-esque theme during the air show was a little distracting and confusing. Is this take place after the show? Are these the actual events and the old show was a corney TV series about the war? What gives?

There were a bunch of things that were a nod to the old show, like the chrome toaster Cylon in the gift shop (and in the colonial diplomat's briefing papers at the very beginning), but this really is a different spin on the whole story, and not just a sequel of sorts. Remember, in the original, the battlestars were ambushed on the way to the signing of the peace treaty - in this version, a peace treaty WAS signed 40+ years earlier, and the current attack comes out of nowhere. The Galactica herself is a veteran of the earlier fighting, and is seen as outdated enough to warrant de-commission.

msmith537 - did you catch the exchange between Apollo and Starbuck, when Starbuck is in the brig? No way she is lesbianized if:
she was in a relationship with Apollo's brother Zach at the time of Zach's death, which btw also explains why the elder Adama has a soft spot for her.

Maci - REALLY interesting idea about
Baltar being replaced by a Cylon. So in this case, the human Baltar is not an intentional traitor, and his Cylon replacement gets to do further dastardly deeds, maybe...

Other things I like about the new version:

- Apollo, Starbuck, etc. are the pilots' call signs, not their actual names.
- Actually, the whole de-emphasis on mythological elements is rather refreshing - it was too heavy-handed in the original.
- No Boxey! No daggits! No Serena, Cassiopeia or Athena to muck things up with an obligatory love story right now, either. After all, this is war! ;)
- Fight scenes in space are very cool... I like the minimal sounds, and the ?heat-seeking missiles are visually stunning, much better than the standard laser blasts.
- I like the conflict being set up between Adama and the new President. Much more realistic to see people squabbling about how to get things done in the middle of a crisis.

Orual

12-09-2003, 07:06 AM

I remember the original series a little bit (I was such a wee little child when I watched that I didn't understand how that guy from the A-Team ended up in space).

I must say, I really like this new spin on it, and I wasn't really expecting to. Sure, new Starbuck is a bit obnoxious, and the cheesy melodrama is cranked up to rather high levels ("40 seconds!"), and Baltar has weird beaten-puppydog eyes, but it's definitely enjoyable.

I really like the quiet spacefights.

El Elvis Rojo

12-09-2003, 07:48 AM

I don't have cable, so I haven't seen it, but am I correct in believing that they've done away with the look of the old chrome Cylon foot soldiers?

The show may be good, but that's just wrong!

ddgryphon

12-09-2003, 08:01 AM

Well, my complaints boil down to a few things:

For all the posturing the creators had about shades of gray and not using any cliche's it was full of both.

** In fact the Starbuck character appeared as a 6 foot plus woman in a DC comic "Atari Force" back in the 80's and is the brash pilot cliche, except she's a woman.

** There are no shades of gray for the new Cylon B*tch she is pure cold evil.

** The Panda factor was out of control in the first 40 minutes. In fact there was so much sex, they didn't actually bother with a story until it neared the second hour.

** The actor playing Apollo -- I got the feeling Joey Tribbianni (not Matt LeBlanc) could have done a better job in that role. His rant at Adama was just awful.

While the basic revision process has some cool elements, they are wasted among weak and lazy writing. I was no big fan of the original, but thought it was a great concept poorly done. I would call this a fair concept poorly done. The ships, the technology (though there are some problems), even the structure of the society is interesting, the people are not. I'll be watching tonight, but I think I'll be rooting for the Cylons.

I'd give it 3.5 to 4 rotten vegetables out of 5.

Uvula Donor

12-09-2003, 08:14 AM

I like this new version, too. I watched the old series as a kid, and enjoyed that one back then - though I have to admit it hasn't aged well.

All in all, I think they did a decent job here. I like the quiet nods they've made to the old series. I like the way they've handled the technology here - missiles and nukes are a lot more plausible than laserbeams etc. The flight sequences are awesome and a lot more "realistic" as well.

Character development could have been a little better, but that seems to be true of most miniseries, especially in this genre. The characters take a back seat to the action and the hardware, and often take a while to flesh out. If this miniseries turns out to be a springboard to a regular timeslot, I'm certain the characters will develop from meat puppets to believable people as the first season unfolds. And if not, I'll just keep enjoying it for what it is.

sunfish

12-09-2003, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by El Elvis Rojo
I don't have cable, so I haven't seen it, but am I correct in believing that they've done away with the look of the old chrome Cylon foot soldiers?

The show may be good, but that's just wrong!

According to the Cylon superbabe, those models are still around, as they still have their uses.

The new ones, I don't like so much. It's clear that the colonial diplomat was in complete shock at how different both the new soldier model, the superbabe and the fighters were from the old chrome toasters... I think meant to underscore just how much the Cylons have changed (evolved?) on their own while the humans were blisfully ignorant.

Kilt-wearin' man

12-09-2003, 08:50 AM

This version was pretty good, but they should've just changed the names of the characters, ships and races and called it something new because it bears only a passing resemblance to Battlestar Galactica. I liked the reaction control thrusters on the Vipers and the rapid-fire particle beams taking out Cylon missiles, and the space combat just looked good. Hell, story-wise (other than the gratuitous sex that didn't advance the plot an inch) I don't have any complaints.

Actually, I do have one complaint - the missile that hit the Galactica - does a Colonial Battlestar have no point-defense weapons at all? As soon as Starbuck called that missile inbound, Adama should have ordered all point defense guns active and it should have been blown out of the sky a half-mile out in a hail of defensive fire - or at least flown through a hail of defensive fire to its target. On the show, the only hail of fire if flew through came from Starbuck's museum-piece Viper. They've copied enough jargon from our modern Navy without understanding what it means (Telling Apollo to "Call the ball" when he can't even see the landing deck yet, etc...), they could've borrowed the idea of anti-aircraft and anti-missile defenses...

I also agree with one of Richard Hatch's main compalints (you know, the original Apollo from the '70s) about the mini-series. The original BG had some pretty good female roles: Athena - ship's tactical officer and later a fighter pilot; Sheba - 'kick-ass and take names' fighter pilot; hell, they even found ways to make Casseopia a useful character a couple of times. But instead of keeping the female characters that were already around they just decided to get rid of 'em and re-cast Starbuck and Boomer as women instead.

Oh, and I hate the new Cylon Trade Federation Battledroid Centruions and Droid Fighters. I suppose the Colonial Jedi will have to deal with them with their Colonial Clone Army of the Republic...

And while I'm complaining, what's with Col. Tigh? Adama couldn't get a competent, non-alcoholic professional, so he had to settle for a drunk who picks fights with junior officers under his command? Thank God the Galactica is going to be decommissioned and this asshole's not gonna be relied on in combat at any point...whoops...

I must admit, though, I enjoyed watching the show - I'd rank it with Space: Above and Beyond and I can admit there are some things they did better than the original. Some. Not most. Love the sense of tumbling perspective and constant motion in the space scenes, BTW...

ElvisL1ves

12-09-2003, 08:53 AM

Loved it. Don't look for any more depth than the old series, but it's as good as escapist space-war SF gets.

Lessee here ... Starbuck's a woman now, not Face from the "A-Team". Boomer morphed from a black man to an Asian woman. Colonel Tigh got the Michael Jackson skin treatment, too. The white Sioux woman from "Dances with Wolves" is the President. Captain Castillo from "Miami Vice" commands a battlestar (I kept waiting for him to call in Crockett and Tubbs for a chewing out). Baltar isn't a collaborator, just a fool who thought with the wrong head, but he has possibilities. The residents of Caprica are all white. The only black person in this future is some one-line-speaking yeoman on Galactica - sheesh, that's regressed even from ST:TOS. But maybe they'll fix it. And they're not using microns and centons as units of distance now, either, but apparently they haven't developed even cathode ray tubes - what happens if they run out of printer paper?

One of the kids who got on the Viper on Caprica looked like the old Boxey, so I wouldn't worry about him. The requisite babeflesh will no doubt be present, too, based on all the first-hour action scenes.

The spaceship maneuvering scenes actually looked like they would in space. An easy thing for SFX to do, but rarely done.

Pity they didn't show a Cylon with a Mac laptop typing "Perform Jolly Roger" when they got close to the new networked Vipers.

Only plot point I don't get is why the Cylons sent the new fembot model and the 2 battle droids to Babylon 6 just to tell the human diplomat that the war had started. As if he didn't know. But she gave him her picture anyway so he could burn it.

Avalonian

12-09-2003, 09:14 AM

Once the show got past the first half hour, it really got good... that first half-hour was almost painfully bad and cliched, though, particularly the obligatory "evil hot chick" coming on to every man she comes across... that, and what she did to the baby, just seemed pointless. I was waiting for that bit to be over.

However, once the Cylon attack started, it got good in a hurry. The combat scenes have some great effects and are nicely shot. I've never seen a space-war show that really captured the vast perspectives of space the way this one does, and the physics of the ships' flying seems right on the money. Very unique, in the regard.

I like the irony of Starbuck, the womanizing man in the original show, being a tough-as-nails woman in this version. That really works for me.

Olmos does just fine as the Commander. His son, Apollo, not so much.

Nice treat to see Mary McDonnell in a good role again, and she's really playing it up well. Very cool.

ElvisL1ves said:
apparently they haven't developed even cathode ray tubes - what happens if they run out of printer paper?

As Adama said at some point, they obviously have lots of computers, but most of them are not networked together. I actually like this plot-point, and it carried through well to the rest of the show, as the old Vipers were the only ones unaffected by whatever was jamming the newer ships. Kind of a nice touch, and a good way to regress the technology back to the old show.

Good show, so far, now that it's gotten over the pointless sex of the first half-hour. I'll be watching tonight, definitely.

Revtim

12-09-2003, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by brianmelendez
I was wondering whether the war of 40 years ago was the same war from the original series, or a war that occurred before the original series began. After all, didn't the first series open with the Cylons breaking a peace treaty? I guess others have covered this, but this miniseries is a "re-imaging", so it's technically a remake with no link to the old series beyond names and themes. They are not in the same "continuity".

Kilt-wearin' man

12-09-2003, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by ElvisL1ves
Captain Castillo from "Miami Vice" commands a battlestar (I kept waiting for him to call in Crockett and Tubbs for a chewing out).
I thought I was the only one waiting for that...

Originally posted by ElvisL1ves
Only plot point I don't get is why the Cylons sent the new fembot model and the 2 battle droids to Babylon 6 just to tell the human diplomat that the war had started. As if he didn't know. But she gave him her picture anyway so he could burn it.
That guy got all blown up along with the fembot and the battle droids. The picture-burner was Col. Tigh putting a cigar through a photo of his ex-wife. Remember, Cylon-Babe Number 6 explained to Baltar that she can't die. When each body she uses is destroyed, she just wakes up in the next one, hence "Number 6". I guess her two centurions on the space station were just screwed.

Oh, and guys? Face from The A-Team was Starbuck, not the other way around. Galactica came first. That's why it was funny in one of the early episodes (and it got re-used in the opening credits all through the A-Team's run) when Face was at Universal Studios and a guy in a Cylon suit walked by they both did a double-take at each other. It's the only specific thing I remember from watching The A-Team as a kid.

Mr. Miskatonic

12-09-2003, 10:24 AM

Kilt Wearin Man: I suspect that Galactica had lost of weapons that had been removed since it was going to become a museum. They don't leave teh vulcans on the USS New Jersey ya know. They even made a joke about this:

Starbuck: What about the Starboard launch bay?
Tech: It's a gift shop!

Of course, by that logic the old vipers should have been totally mothballed. But they seemed to get them up and running without a minimum of effort (they mention what needed to be done for this, but I don't recall.)

I thought they carried the sense of dread from the attack quite well. The writeres and director learned a lot from 9/11 from a "what the hell is going on". You never see the rest of the fleet being wiped out, just reports.

I like the way they shot the battle scenes. I recall them saying they did it as if a newsguy were taping the battle and had to adjust his camera on the fly.

I could live without the fembot.

The Apollo actor really kinda sucks.

I will comment that while Richard Hatch is right about useful female characters in the original, I will also note that Casseopia seems to have twenty jobs: Surgical assistant, Yeoman to Adama, Courtesan, Shuttle pilot, etc.

All in all, much better than I feared.

carnivorousplant

12-09-2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Kilt-wearin' man

Actually, I do have one complaint - the missile that hit the Galactica - does a Colonial Battlestar have no point-defense weapons at all?

I agree, however:

"We're in a shooting war, we need something to shoot."

Being decomissioned, they have no ammo. That's why they have to get Ragno(whatchamacallit) harbour, for munitions.

kasuo

12-09-2003, 11:22 AM

Given the little nod to the original series with the museum they had on the Galactica, there is the possibility of seeing an updated Cylon Basestar.

msmith537

12-09-2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Mr. Miskatonic
I will comment that while Richard Hatch is right about useful female characters in the original, I will also note that Casseopia seems to have twenty jobs: Surgical assistant, Yeoman to Adama, Courtesan, Shuttle pilot, etc.
[/B]

And if I recall correctly (and I'm pretty sure I do since I occassionally catch the old episodes on the sci-fi channel), it wasn't as if all the women in the old Galactica show ran around screaming. They had women fighter pilots and bridge crews technicians and what not. The only diference is that their uniforms are cut a little tighter and a military issue haircut is the Farah Fawcett 'do'.

Still, I do miss old Boomer's afro and old Col "Uncle Tom" Tigh's "yessa massa Adama! I bring dem laser batt'ries online directly!!"

The "retro" technolgy idea is pretty original and it makes sense. If you are fighting machines and A.I.s, you probably don't want to be too dependent on other machines and A.I.s. I'm also reminded of the anti-human robot horror movie from Futurama

"we tried our most powerful magnetic fields on it (the human) with no effect...in the end, all it took was a harmless pointed stick.."

BrotherCadfael

12-09-2003, 12:54 PM

OK, sure, the Cylon babe is gratuitous...but wow!

Ike Witt

12-09-2003, 01:27 PM

After the opening sequence, my first thought was, "they don't need the Galactica, they need Deckard."

Kilt-wearin' man

12-09-2003, 03:11 PM

OK, I'll give you the logic of no point defense weapons.

Originally posted by Mr. Miskatonic
Of course, by that logic the old vipers should have been totally mothballed. But they seemed to get them up and running without a minimum of effort (they mention what needed to be done for this, but I don't recall.)

Any aviation museum worth its salt has at least a reasonable portion of its aircraft in flyable condition - the ones that don't are just sad collections of rusting hulks. The Cavanaugh Flight Musuem is 15 minutes from my apartment and has to keep drip pans under half its planes to catch engine oil and hydraulic fluid from various aircraft in its collection. If there's ever a need for this nation to be defended by a P-40 Warhawk, and F-86 Sabre or a B-25 Mitchell bomber, they can have one up in the air within the hour...Even museums that never fly their aircraft (such as the National Air and Space Museum) keep them in condition where they could fly, just so they're in 100% accurate condition, so I can believe the Galactica's old MkII Vipers would be made flight-ready in short order - especially since the ground crews just spent who-knows-how-long restoring a squadron's worth of them to tip-top shape for the museum display.

msmith537, I don't remember the original Col. Tigh being anything other than articulate and professional - if a little on the dull side. Certainly none of this "yessa massa" BS...his main job just seemed to be to lean on the opposite arm of Athena's bridge chair from the one Adama leaned on and stare intently at the tactical screen while commenting on how dire the situation is...kinda like Commander Riker's job in the first three seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation...

Kilt-wearin' man

12-09-2003, 03:30 PM

Oh, and ElvisL1ves? Just to demonstrate what a freakin' geek I can be, microns and centons were never used as units of distance, they were units of time (unlike the Corellian parsec, which is apparently a unit of time used by Han Solo to judge his Kessel runs...). If I recall correctly, microns were seconds and centons were minutes, don't remember what hour were but years were "yahrens". Anyone remember better than I do what each "Galacticaspeak" time unit equated to? Anyone remember if they had their own distance units ("Light-yahrens?")?

kasuo

12-09-2003, 03:33 PM

I thought that whole Han Solo parsec thing was explained as not a time issue but of distance, since traversing the Kessel Run required a lot of course adjustments and Han was bragging he crossed the expanse in the shortest distance.

AtomicDog

12-09-2003, 03:44 PM

I've just come back from perusing some of the Galactica fansites forums. I admit, I had a hard time understanding the negativity of the fans there to the new series - no, strike that; the raw, unbridled FURY they have against the new series.

Now, nostalgia I can understand.
Indifference I can understand.
Distaste I can understand.

But I just couldn't understand the naked hatred towards this new BSG.

Then it hit me - this was FEAR.
Fear that this new series would dash hope for all time that their vision of Battlestar Galactica - a continuation of the 70's series - would ever be made.

I don't know what to tell them. This new BSG was damn good.

levdrakon

12-09-2003, 04:03 PM

Speaking of Farscape, I'm totally acclimated to it. "Just wait a frellin' microt" sounds completely normal to me. "Just wait a frackin' micron" would have just sounded lame. Although I did hear someone say "frack." Ugh.

As for Starbuck not being a lesbian, c'mon. Xena & Gabrielle weren't technically lesbians either, but ten million lesbian fans weren't totally delusional.

What's wrong with Col Tigh having a bit of a drinking problem? And being white? I can only imagine the outrage if they'd kept him black and given him a drinking problem. Sheesh. And if you don't think soldiers drink when they're off duty, or that some of them don't drink a little too much when they're off duty... I think BSG always tried to go for a bit more realism than Star Trek or Star Wars that way.

Darkhold

12-09-2003, 04:03 PM

fairly good show. B- so far. I write this as someone that dimly remembers the original but when it came on as a marathon about a year ago watched about three episodes thinking "my god this is bad. Why did I like this so much?"

My main complaint (and it seems to make me a minority here) is I think the fights suck. I can hardly follow what's going on it's like a half assed version of the fights in B5 with none of the cinematic style. I do like the minimalist sound effects though.

I didn't mind Col. Tigh being a loser. This ship is a 40 yr old relic no doubt some people thought it would be a good place to stick an ineffective CO.

Fembot......mixed feelings. I didn't like how the envoy just kissed her b/c she was so 'hot' I don't imagine any human being with even the slightest glimmer of brain power would be anything but kicking and clawing to get away. And I don't understand why they bothered. If you're just going to blow up a station why waste materials by putting a fem bot and two centurions on it? The baby scene was silly too. Why risk being arrested for something like that when you know everything is going to be nuked in a few days. Seems like they're striving too much for an 'evil' feel which was unnecessary. That said I think an infiltrator before you invade would be a logical step for them to take.

I never got a feeling of despair from the original (maybe I was too young) but this one seems to be doing a good job. I liked the lottery I liked that Boltar didn't jump at the chance (you could see him considering it) to save his own skin. I think he'll make an interesting character as he grows disillusioned and betrays humanity.

So far I don't like the president she seems to be too unsure. Not that that is an unreasonable thing but so far she doesn't seem to be someone that would stand toe to toe with a Commander that wants to take charge.

The son. *SIGH* why do all sci/fi sons hate their fathers? Seems like the only time you see a family in these shows is when they hate each other but have to work together anyway or if they're being tragically torn apart.

Starbuck. I haven't liked the rebel without a cause since well....Starwars I don't care if it's a him or a her.

The largest thing I like about this is they obviously attempted to keep the cornball to a minimum. There isn't a lot of winking at the camera or things that flat look silly. There was an attempt at realism here which they didn't always succeed but at least they were trying

Kilt-wearin' man

12-09-2003, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by kasuo
I thought that whole Han Solo parsec thing was explained as not a time issue but of distance, since traversing the Kessel Run required a lot of course adjustments and Han was bragging he crossed the expanse in the shortest distance.

Nah, that's just 25 years worth of geeks like us trying to make excuses for George Lucas not knowing what a "parsec" is but putting it in his script because it sounded impressive.

------Now back to the real discussion, already in progress----

I like the President's indecision and skewed priorities (insisting on devoting all resources to rescue operations rather than re-arming while the fleet's still being wiped out all over the place) - she's just been bumped up 43 positions from education secretary to President of the Colonies. She's got no idea what she's doing, she's just trying to do the best she can.

I think she's going to have to make some horrible, costly mistake and have Adama rub her nose in it in order to become a strong leader, but that's the stuff that good storytelling thrives on. Let's just hope we get to see some good storytelling, or at least more decent storytelling. So far nothing has out-and-out sucked...except the new Cylon Centurian designs.

Doomtrain

12-09-2003, 04:35 PM

AtomicDog-Stuff like that is why I hate fanboys. It doesn't matter HOW they made it, nothing would be good enough, you know? And besides, it's just a cornball 70s TV show. So they remade it. The old show is still out there. They haven't done anything to it. Heck, maybe the new movie will drive people to watch the original.

Ponder Stibbons

12-09-2003, 04:54 PM

Well, here's my 2 cents.

I was predisposed NOT to like it. I had heard the buzz around it from the various sources, and the buzz did not sound good. When I turned to SciFi I was thinking what else I might watch when BSG started to really suck ...

But I'm the type to give something an honest shot, too, and I'm glad I did. I think the show turned out GREAT. I was quite impressed and am looking forward to part 2 tonight. I think the character development has been excellent. I love Olmos' Adama, I love the character of the President, and I love their initial mutual antipathy. As Kilt-wearin' man pointed out above, this makes for good drama, and I'm looking forward to how it develops. I don't know if the president's pilot will be a continuing character or not, but his reaction to the initial news was really great acting. The stammering, the shaking hand, the wan look -- just excellent. In fact, I really thought most of the acting was quite good. Many people have panned the actor playing Apollo and I agree he's the least likable of the lot, but I think that also plays to the drama and leaves room for development.

As for the fanboys ... ah, who cares?

Declan

12-09-2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by levdrakon
Ooh. The one thing that caught me right away and made me decide to watch:

The Cylon babe snapped the little baby's neck! How cool is that? It's like they had the balls to cross a line I don't think I've ever seen crossed by evil doers before. Woo, hoo! Snap more cute little baby necks, you evil Cylons!

I think she aspixiated the brat ,rather than snapping the lovable tykes neck

Declan

Curate

12-09-2003, 05:14 PM

I also like the retro technology and the reason given for its presence. Frankly, it also provides a reason for BG having such a large crew -- I always wondered what the crowds on the Enterprise were there for, but lacking networked computers to do many of the jobs we've got a good reason for legions of fuse-changers. Pity there weren't any assigned as antiaircraft gunners.

Like the Star Trek universe, the Galactica does seem a little top-heavy with officers. Also, figuring out how the ranks line up is a little confusing. here's how it seems to me, based on ranks I heard used last night: Chief (the only enlisted rank I noticed), Lieutenant, Captain, Colonel, Commander, Admiral, Secretary of Education.

I do kind of miss the old lumpy Galactica, though. Did I miss a part in which other battlestars were referred to by name? In the original series I seem to remember Pegasus, Atlanica and the improbably-named Pacifica. I like to think that somewhere out there is the battlestar Lusitania.

kasuo

12-09-2003, 05:26 PM

Perhaps a "Battlestar Tonkin" to throw into the mix.

After giving it a little thought, I'm bugged by something. Why didn't the humans have unmanned recon missions to find out where the Cylons were hiding? I'm sure at the end of the war, there were some military officers and politicians who weren't so quick to forget about the Cylon threat.

Declan

12-09-2003, 05:31 PM

My thoughts on episode one

Pro's

I like Starbuck , hopefully she can fly a viper with her tits on fire , to match her arogance.

Vipers , nice and sleek , the designers did the old girl proud.

Adama , what I expect a ships captain to be , I would almost say that JMS had a hand in this guys role/Persona , gonna have to see what he is like around nukes.

Homage , as others said so far about memorabilia from the old show , but what I loved the most is the flyby of the vipers and the old music starts a playin :)

Overall feel of the show is that its an adult show now , rather than when I was a kid ,and the oohs and ahhs of the original vipers , starbuck flirting , etc.

Dropping the egyptian stuff , real distances/ megatonnage .

Cons

Umm this one is sort of harder cause its half story related , half character plots.

Fembot , if she is one. I think she is a cloned human that has memorys downloaded , rather than a cyborg

I really have mixed feelings cause I dont think that so far she added anything to the story line , except for maybe a fith coloumm fear , they are everywhere , trust no one.

No networks on the galactica , CIC looks like its an american Aircraft carrier out of the sixities ,with grease markers and rulers , cause the cylons are exceptionally good at cyber warfare.

That one bothers me ,cause while I can understand the reasoning , you just don't give up tools , you improve them, or keep the grease pens in a drawer just in case.

The reaction times of close in defenses against incoming missiles alone ,demands lots of networked computers , while the cylon was only able to fire off 3 missiles , in real life , you want to surge the battlespace with lots and lots and lots of vampires , drones , decoys etc.

Did not like the next generation of cylon warrior , those things looked evil , which may have been the point, but its kind of odd for a computer based cyborg race , to adopt a human type meme on storm troopers, who knows {shrug}

Do All Crew Chief.

This guy was all over the place , but what bothered me ,was that for all the shows attempt to show a credible military force , this guy was supposedly in charge of DC or damage control. While during a major plot element he was conferring with another officer , there did not seem to be the idea that the Exec would delegate to a commisioned officer ,who would then order the chief to do what needed to be done, it seemed like there was a disconnect there.

That idiot president , but have to wait till later on to see what exactly she brings to the table , so this one could go yay or nay.

Damm , if a teddy bear gets snuffed tonight , I am gonna go looking for JMS in the credits :)

Declan

Declan

12-09-2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Curate
ILike the Star Trek universe, the Galactica does seem a little top-heavy with officers. Also, figuring out how the ranks line up is a little confusing. here's how it seems to me, based on ranks I heard used last night: Chief (the only enlisted rank I noticed), Lieutenant, Captain, Colonel, Commander, Admiral, Secretary of Education.

I do kind of miss the old lumpy Galactica, though. Did I miss a part in which other battlestars were referred to by name? In the original series I seem to remember Pegasus, Atlanica and the improbably-named Pacifica. I like to think that somewhere out there is the battlestar Lusitania.

Actually for once there seemed to be a lot of EM's , you may have heard Commander adama request something off a specialist, which probably would relate to either airman or seaman or private

I liked this cause unlike the original series, which only seemed to have 12 battlestars , this new series has/had 120 battlestars. Names I heard was at least atlantia and columbia among others , no mention of the pegasus yet. The last time the columbia got a mention was on the episode the gun on Ice planet zero.

The rank thing is screwed up though, part airforce , part navy. By all respects Col Tighe should out rank adama instead of being XO.

Declan

Darkhold

12-09-2003, 06:03 PM

Declan,

I think the glowing spine (for no good reason) pretty much seals the fact she is a cyborg and not what you suggested in your spoiler box. ;)

Declan

12-09-2003, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by Darkhold
Declan,

I think the glowing spine (for no good reason) pretty much seals the fact she is a cyborg and not what you suggested in your spoiler box. ;)

I seen that as well , but I am gonna wait till the episode tonight , just to see whats what.

I think that there can be a reasonable explanation for both views, but for now , it could be either as well.

Declan

msmith537

12-09-2003, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Kilt-wearin' man
msmith537, I don't remember the original Col. Tigh being anything other than articulate and professional - if a little on the dull side. Certainly none of this "yessa massa" BS...his main job just seemed to be to lean on the opposite arm of Athena's bridge chair from the one Adama leaned on and stare intently at the tactical screen while commenting on how dire the situation is...kinda like Commander Riker's job in the first three seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation... [/B]

I know...It was the 70's so I just like remembering Boomer as being more "black" than he was and Col. Tigh as being less so.

It's also unfortunate that since the 70s, the name "Starbuck" has mostly become associated with a coffee.

levdrakon

12-09-2003, 08:17 PM

I like the Number Six character. After the baby incident, she looked seriously remorseful. It's like her Borg, er - Cylon collective, er - God made her a little too human in order to be a truly convincing infiltrator. If and when they manage to sever her connection to the collective, er - break her networked connection to her Cylon Masters/God she'll be seriously conflicted about who and what she really is. "More human than human" was the old Tyrell company slogan?

Speaking of Bladerunner, I'm thinking she's something between a Replicant and a Terminator style organics over machine endoskeleton type thing.

As for the glowing spine, the first thing I thought of (for no good reason) was this (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994419).

LurkMeister

12-09-2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Declan
I think she aspixiated the brat ,rather than snapping the lovable tykes neck

Declan
After she leaned into the stroller you heard a quiet but unmistakeable snap. Not having had much experience at snapping necks, I don't know how audible the sound would really be, but I think in light of her earlier comment on how amazing it was that the baby's neck could support so much weight we were meant to infer that she had broken its neck. Also, if she had left the head in an obviously extreme angle it would have explained the mother's immediate realization that her child was dead when she looked at it.

CaptBushido

12-09-2003, 08:38 PM

I still like the show, but barely a quarter of the way into the second part, and the hokey twists are piling up without stop.

First off, the Colonial Fleet just leaves huge, expensive ammo dumps sitting in space untended? No maintenance crew, no defenses, nothing?

Second: Ah, an explosion sealed a door so completely shut that an entire crew of mechanics can't open it? Suuuure, that's believable.

And finally, why the hell would the President's assistant feel the need to to tell her that the little girl's ship can't jump? She already made the tough decision to leave those people behind, is any useful purpose served by saying "HEY, MADAME PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW THAT LITTLE GIRL? SHE'S GOING TO DIE.... YEP"

CaptBushido

12-09-2003, 09:30 PM

To ameliorate all that, however, the big space battle is FREAKING AWESOME.

Revtim

12-09-2003, 09:38 PM

Gotta say, I'm liking this a lot more than I expected to. I agree the space battle was excellent!

Etherman

12-09-2003, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by CaptBushido
I still like the show, but barely a quarter of the way into the second part, and the hokey twists are piling up without stop.

And finally, why the hell would the President's assistant feel the need to to tell her that the little girl's ship can't jump? She already made the tough decision to leave those people behind, is any useful purpose served by saying "HEY, MADAME PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW THAT LITTLE GIRL? SHE'S GOING TO DIE.... YEP"

You know I wondered that at the time, but they seem to be hinting that:

He's another Cylon spy/plant.

And that wasn't just a supply dump, it was frickin huge

And on preview I can't get all the vb to line up right, the first spoiler is quoting CaptBushido

CaptBushido

12-09-2003, 09:45 PM

Ooo, wow, plot twist at the end. Fans of the original series: was that part of the original story?

Etherman

12-09-2003, 10:00 PM

Awsome battle, and a set up for a series.

OK that last twist was messed up, with they Cylons at the station.

John Mace

12-09-2003, 10:01 PM

Overall, I thought it was real good. I was very suspicious considering how cheesily bad the old series was. It was nothing more than a crappy series trying to ride the Star Wars craze. And then you have all the nutcase fans of the old series. Why bother-- why not just create something new?

But they did a good job. Looks like it'll be a serious show. Of course it remains to be seen if the writers can keep it fresh and not have it descend into 24-like siliness.

carnivorousplant

12-09-2003, 10:04 PM

Anybody spot Serenity?

CaptBushido

12-09-2003, 10:06 PM

Yeah, actually I meant the

[spolier]13th tribe went to Earth[/spoiler]

plot twist, but that VERY last one was interesting, too. It would be CRUEL of them not to make a series after leaving us hanging with that.

CaptBushido

12-09-2003, 10:08 PM

Well, dammit. I think everyone here has been watching the show, but just in case, can a mod fix that?

Declan

12-09-2003, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by LurkMeister
After she leaned into the stroller you heard a quiet but unmistakeable snap. Not having had much experience at snapping necks, I don't know how audible the sound would really be, but I think in light of her earlier comment on how amazing it was that the baby's neck could support so much weight we were meant to infer that she had broken its neck. Also, if she had left the head in an obviously extreme angle it would have explained the mother's immediate realization that her child was dead when she looked at it.

Its being repeated on Sunday at 7 , so I shall have to re-watch that part. Since I never heard that snap, the only thing that I heard was the mother saying the baby was not breathing, if the kids neck had been snapped she may have said something along the lines of my baby has been murdered

Declan

Revtim

12-09-2003, 10:10 PM

Ahhh, I suck. I wasn't paying attention in the very last scene with the cylons. Can someone please tell me what heppened?

Declan

12-09-2003, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by CaptBushido
To ameliorate all that, however, the big space battle is FREAKING AWESOME.

I gotta say the silence of the whole thing spoiled it for me , while I like the idea that space is vaccum and you can't hear anything , the music was sub-par for that.

Contrast it with some of the Babylon 5 battles ,and the christopher franke music was what made it come alive , an audio visual extravaganza.

They had the concept perfect for the agro ship and the little girl with the raggedy ann doll, but screwed the pooch on the battle

go figure

Declan

Declan

12-09-2003, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by CaptBushido
Yeah, actually I meant the

13th tribe went to Earth

plot twist, but that VERY last one was interesting, too. It would be CRUEL of them not to make a series after leaving us hanging with that.

No the original series had earth as the destination , not a desparate gamble to keep the crew and refugees from going bug eyed over a long voyage.

Declan

sunfish

12-09-2003, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Revtim
Ahhh, I suck. I wasn't paying attention in the very last scene with the cylons. Can someone please tell me what heppened?

The guy left behind at the munitions depot turns out to be one of the Cylon models, and we discover that Boomer on the Galactica is a Cylon sleeper agent.

Declan

12-09-2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Revtim
Ahhh, I suck. I wasn't paying attention in the very last scene with the cylons. Can someone please tell me what heppened?

There was originally 12 templates for the cylon clones , one of them was boomer

Declan

Revtim

12-09-2003, 10:22 PM

Thanks guys!

Revtim

12-09-2003, 10:23 PM

or gals, whichever the case may be.

Amp

12-09-2003, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Revtim
Ahhh, I suck. I wasn't paying attention in the very last scene with the cylons. Can someone please tell me what heppened?

The Asian chick, (Boomer?), is a farking Cylon. BTW, so was the guy they left to die on the ammo dump.

MaddyStrut

12-09-2003, 10:42 PM

Okay, the darn dogs were barking and I missed a crucial part at the end:

Who sent Adama the note that there were 12 cylon models and how the heck did they find that out?

John Mace

12-09-2003, 10:54 PM

So, is it my imagination or is the Madame Secretary none other than Stands With A Fist? "You.....Here..... GGGGGoood"

Atreyu

12-09-2003, 10:55 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Declan
[B]Its being repeated on Sunday at 7 , so I shall have to re-watch that part. Since I never heard that snap, the only thing that I heard was the mother saying the baby was not breathing, if the kids neck had been snapped she may have said something along the lines of my baby has been murdered

When you watch it, do it with the closed captions turned on. When I saw it last night, it very clearly identified the sound effect of the baby's neck being snapped.

Oh, and I liked the miniseries overall. Nicely done.

Doomtrain

12-09-2003, 10:58 PM

Curate

12-09-2003, 11:09 PM

I was hoping that somebody would refer to the greenhouse ship as the Valley Forge. It would have been a great cameo opportunity for Bruce Dern.

Revtim

12-09-2003, 11:11 PM

So, Boomer was one of those "sleeper" Cylons that don't even know they are a Cylon?

Etherman

12-09-2003, 11:22 PM

Revtim
I think that is what they are trying to say, or else she is a deep cover agent.

Ok so:

are there 12 of each kind of human appearing Cylon: i/e 12 sexbots, 12 Boomers, etc.

Or are there an unlimited number of the 12 different models?

And whats with the number 12? 12 colonies, 12 origional ships, ~120 in the fleet at the start of the series, 12 Cylons

If you're still up and can get it, the battle is coming up again on the second showing.

elmwood

12-09-2003, 11:26 PM

"They better start having babies."
"Is that an order?"

msmith537

12-09-2003, 11:46 PM

Etherman

There are 12 flavors of Cylon, lots of each flavor.

Interestingly enough, they don't seem to share a networked Borg-like hive mind.

The battle definitely was cool. Kind of reminded me of Star Wars back when it used to be about the wars.

This was definitely set up as a TV pilot. I would not be surprised if they make a new series.

El_Kabong

12-09-2003, 11:51 PM

Great episode. The big space battle was astounding. And I loved the civilizan ships too. The one with the trees, the one that looked like a cargo-container carrier. Just good stuff.

Just wanted to mention, the cargo carrier was patterned after a vessel prominent in the credits sequence of the original series. There was a whale-shaped passenger liner in the 'jump' sequence that was recognizable from the old series as well.

Doomtrain

12-09-2003, 11:55 PM

From a QnA on the site:

Do you want to make this into an ongoing series, and under what circumstances would you?

The intention, from the very beginning, was to create a large-scale, four-hour PILOT to launch a new Battlestar Galactica television series. I am thrilled at what we're accomplishing, pleasantly shocked at how well many things have already come together, and beyond proud of the job Michael Rymer is doing with the cast and everything I've seen so far. I think the miniseries will stand on its own as a thrilling piece of entertainment and a worthy addition to the Battlestar Galactica canon. However, to be completely honest, if this isn't launched into a weekly series, I'd be disappointed. A series is — and always was — the central goal.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/askdavid/050503.html#ask03

I was happy to see the XO come into his own. They could've very easily made him an incompetent bad officer. Also, he and Starbuck having their little bickering at the end, I'm glad that wasn't resolved with some happy-crappy nonsense.

levdrakon

12-10-2003, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by GMRyujin
I was happy to see the XO come into his own. They could've very easily made him an incompetent bad officer. Also, he and Starbuck having their little bickering at the end, I'm glad that wasn't resolved with some happy-crappy nonsense.

Wow. Starbuck is one big, smelly insubordinate I wanna smack that stupid ass smirk off your face chewing on a big fat penis envy cigar because she really wants to be chewing on a real cock but not in a good way Charlie Uniform November Tango.

And the twist at the end! Cool. A re-imagining I approve of.

The Long Road

12-10-2003, 02:22 AM

I had a different take on the baby scene. After a bit of thought, I think it was meant to be an act of kindness in a machine brain sort of way. When the baby is crying, she mentions how in a few hours there will be nothing to cry about. Then, when the mother is away, does the job. She figures the baby is going to die in the attack so a quick snap and it won't have to suffer.

Having watched the entire original BSG and BSG 1980(argh, that sucked), I find this one much better. In the original, the government was made out to be a bunch of peace loving hippie idiots. They forced the Battlestars to assemble at the peace ceremony over the objections of the military. Even after almost the entire fleet and the colonies were destroyed because of their stupidity, they spent the rest of the series trying to get Adama to make bad decisions, constantly giving him grief. The message really boiled down to, Military smart, civilian government stupid. In this one, neither the government or military is at fault. They just get blind-sided by the Cylons in a sneak attack. If anything, the military is made out a bit badly in the new one as the President is trying to save everyone while the military is intent on going to fight a lost cause.

Originally posted by levdrakon
Wow. Starbuck is one big, smelly insubordinate I wanna smack that stupid ass smirk off your face chewing on a big fat penis envy cigar because she really wants to be chewing on a real cock but not in a good way Charlie Uniform November Tango.

And the twist at the end! Cool. A re-imagining I approve of.

Man, you've got real issues with women.

Nurobath

12-10-2003, 02:24 AM

Yes, very nicely done all around I think. I think that they did a very good job at capturing the "we have to do what we can to save the species " thing.

when all the civillian ships with FLT took off and left the others behind was very well done. I got a good sense of desparation and sadness from that whole scene. When the Cylons showed up and launched the missles...damn.

I'm glad that they're not holding back (see spolier)...one really does get the feeling that the end is near for the humans.

BraheSilver

12-10-2003, 02:49 AM

I had another take on the baby moment. The Cylon is looking at it and says something like "What a fragile neck, how does it support all that weight..." before she snaps it. I thought she was doing some kind of stress test. ("Sexy Cylon 6 to Command. Human baby necks take up to 10 pounds of pressure before the vetrebrae fail. File this for future reference.")

I had no clue up to the end that:
Newsman/tour leader guy actually was a Cylon. I thought that Gaius was sending this poor shmoe to the slammer to show the XO that he (Gaius) was a big Cylon expert and to keep the heat off himself. "Cylon spy? Yup, that's him. I did some tests that I invented just now and he's the only positive. Yup. No, not me. Never."

And Boomer replaces Hoshi in my dreams. Aw yeah.

levdrakon

12-10-2003, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by The Long Road
Man, you've got real issues with women.

Nah, just the Starbuck character. In RF, chicks dig me.

Seriously, I had no problem with Starbuck up until the final scene with Tigh and the following scene where she was all smug and full of herself.

When the baby is crying, she mentions how in a few hours there will be nothing to cry about. Then, when the mother is away, does the job. She figures the baby is going to die in the attack so a quick snap and it won't have to suffer.

That's a good point. But why would a machine brain be interested in an act of kindness/mercy, unless a little too much humanity got into her programming?

The Long Road

12-10-2003, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by levdrakon
Nah, just the Starbuck character. In RF, chicks dig me.

Seriously, I had no problem with Starbuck up until the final scene with Tigh and the following scene where she was all smug and full of herself.

That's a good point. But why would a machine brain be interested in an act of kindness/mercy, unless a little too much humanity got into her programming?

Well, she displayed passion during sex ,displayed mercy/pity/love when she saved the doctor from the blast wave and jealousy when she found him in bed with another woman(the jealousy might have been anger or nothing at all, just seemed that way). So emotions are not out of the question. A satisfying break from the Terminator "I am a machine and have a mission to perform" type of unit.

I expect the Boomer story line to develop along the lines of who is her loyalty with, the Cylons or the Humans. That is assuming that there is a series of course. I was left wondering if the Docter did really develop a test or was it by chance that he chose the person he did and was right. If he developed a test and is to test each crewmember, he is going to find out Boomer real fast.

I found the Starbuck character interesting and her telling off the XO a good break from the "you now respect me and I respect you" storyline. She thinks he is weak and not afraid to tell him.

Sorry, no spoiler boxes, too annoying ;)

CaptBushido

12-10-2003, 05:53 AM

Sorry, no spoiler boxes, too annoying

Yeah, I think you have the right idea. 3 pages into this, if passerby haven't figured out that we are only here to spoil it, then they deserve it.

Has anyone else read Philip K. Dick's short story Second Variety? The whole "12 models of cylons" thing seems to be a concept ripped straight from the story. Not a bad thing, either. It's interesting.

carnivorousplant

12-10-2003, 07:39 AM

What sort of story lines did the series use?
You can't do a Star Trek / Firefly interact with others thing because they are the only humans. You can't do a Lost In Space/Voyager schtick because having the Cylons show up every episode would be stupid.
Boomer-Human or Cyclon ? would quickly turn into soap opera as Balthar (sp) would quickly become Mr. Smith from Lost In Space.

LurkMeister

12-10-2003, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by carnivorousplant
What sort of story lines did the series use?
You can't do a Star Trek / Firefly interact with others thing because they are the only humans. You can't do a Lost In Space/Voyager schtick because having the Cylons show up every episode would be stupid.
Boomer-Human or Cyclon ? would quickly turn into soap opera as Balthar (sp) would quickly become Mr. Smith from Lost In Space.
The original series did have the Cylons showing up in nearly every episode. Here (http://www.tvtome.com/BattlestarGalactica/guide.html) is an episode guide which pretty much sums up the series. There were no undercover Cylons on the Galactica; Baltar was on one of the Cylon Base Stars as advisor to the Cylons.

The entire original series was recently released as a 6-DVD set in a Cylon head package, BTW.

ElvisL1ves

12-10-2003, 08:46 AM

It was a surprise to find that the model and set of the Valley Forge from "Silent Running" is still around after 32 years. Nice tribute, too, to the LBJ ad of the girl and the flower in the nuclear fireball.

carnivorousplant

12-10-2003, 08:48 AM

My mistake. They aren't the only human civilization, nor are humans the only intelligent species.

elmwood

12-10-2003, 09:20 AM

A few dumb Battlestar questions, even though I've seen (but probabl forgotten many elements of) the original series.

* Why did humanity leave Kobol? Are there any humans still there?

* Are the 12 Colonies different planets around different solar systems, or different planets in the same system? Are they different stetes on one large planet?

* Did any timeline ever consider evidence of human evolution on Earth, challenging the BG universe's "humans came from Kobol" premise?

* What happened to the humans left in the Colonies? Enslaved? Killed?

* Why did the Cylons want to wipe out humanity, anyhow? If they hated humans for creating and enslaving them, why not just go someplace far, far away and stay there?

* Was the PR guy a "sleeper" who finally became aware of his Cylon-ness after encountering the other Cylons, or was he a Cylon all along who tried to do a very convinving job of proclaiming his innocence?

Gorgon Heap

12-10-2003, 09:42 AM

I can't answer any questions, because I only saw a few episodes of the original and was astounded by how crappy it was, but I saw three of the four hours of the new one last night was was really, really impressed.

msmith537

12-10-2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by The Long Road
I had a different take on the baby scene. After a bit of thought, I think it was meant to be an act of kindness in a machine brain sort of way. When the baby is crying, she mentions how in a few hours there will be nothing to cry about. Then, when the mother is away, does the job. She figures the baby is going to die in the attack so a quick snap and it won't have to suffer.
[/B]

As satisfying as the scene is to anyone who has ever had to sit in a theater or on an airplane or restaurant next to someones screaming kid, I doubt it was supposed to demonstrate anything to us other than how sadistic Cylons are and how much they hate humans. Still, Hot Cylon seems to be a pretty complex character - well beyond the "GET OUT/I'LL BE BACK/FACH YOU AHSHOLE" canned responses one sees in the typical Terminator robot. (of course the Cylon on the station did say they feel more than Adama can comprehend).

I enjoyed the "Hans Gruber/Bill Clay" scene with Adama and the Cylon in the access tunnels of the station.

Another thing I liked was how you didn't get a sense that the Galactica was this invincible ship. The final scene where hundreds of missles and ships were closing in on the Galactica was particularly well done. In the original series, who cared how many ships the Galactica went against? It ALWAYS won. Wooooo!! Six base stars. Now I guess it will take 6 times as long to shoot them all. The Cyclons might as well have painted their disk-fighters to look like giant bullseyes.

Question: Why limit to twelve models of Cylons? It seems to me that it wouldn't be that hard to vary the mold a little. At least they could get diferent haircuts and clothes.

Random thought: That would be pretty cool to go from being marooned on some space station to finding out that you are actually on the winning team.

Originally posted by The Long Road
Did not like the next generation of cylon warrior , those things looked evil , which may have been the point, but its kind of odd for a computer based cyborg race , to adopt a human type meme on storm troopers, who knows {shrug}

It's odd for a race of robots to evolve into humans period.

Re: Music - I have to disagree with Declan. I found the minimalist musical score helped set the the mood of the battle much better than any rousing Hans Zimmer or John Williams score.

LurkMeister - The original series isn't too bad if you only watch (Friend's style titles for humor) The One With The Destruction of the Colonies, The One Where the Ship Catches Fire, The One With The Guns of Navarone, The One With Lloyd Bridges and The One Where They Attack the Cylon Colony.

GMRyujin - I think I would have preferred a longer miniseries like V / V: The Final Battle instead of a full-blown TV series. It would only be a matter of time until they run out of Cylon storylines and fall into the Farscape / Voyager trap of episodes like The One Where Everyone Switches Bodies, The One Where Starbuck Comes to Terms With Her Sexuality, The One Where The Crew Adopts A Cylon.

The Long Road

12-10-2003, 12:11 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by The Long Road
Did not like the next generation of cylon warrior , those things looked evil , which may have been the point, but its kind of odd for a computer based cyborg race , to adopt a human type meme on storm troopers, who knows {shrug}

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When int the F did I say that? Could you please not attribute quotes to me which are not mine? Thanks.

The Long Road

12-10-2003, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by elmwood
A few dumb Battlestar questions, even though I've seen (but probabl forgotten many elements of) the original series.

* Why did humanity leave Kobol? Are there any humans still there?

* Are the 12 Colonies different planets around different solar systems, or different planets in the same system? Are they different stetes on one large planet?

* Did any timeline ever consider evidence of human evolution on Earth, challenging the BG universe's "humans came from Kobol" premise?

* What happened to the humans left in the Colonies? Enslaved? Killed?

* Why did the Cylons want to wipe out humanity, anyhow? If they hated humans for creating and enslaving them, why not just go someplace far, far away and stay there?

* Was the PR guy a "sleeper" who finally became aware of his Cylon-ness after encountering the other Cylons, or was he a Cylon all along who tried to do a very convinving job of proclaiming his innocence?

I don't know if you are asking about the new show or the old series. With regards to the old series, the Humans did not create the Cylons. In the original series, the Cylons were a race of reptiles who transferred themselves into machines. I don't remember why exactly they hated humanity so much. The reasoning might not have even been given. During the episode where this is explained, it seems more thrown in to sound good than having anything to do with the series.

John Mace

12-10-2003, 12:24 PM

msmith wrote:
Re: Music - I have to disagree with Declan. I found the minimalist musical score helped set the the mood of the battle much better than any rousing Hans Zimmer or John Williams score.
I absolutely agree. The understated drum beat score was original and still good at building tension. I think we've all seen enough battle scenes with overpowering musical scores-- why do that again??

sunfish

12-10-2003, 12:25 PM

Okay, here we go. OS = old series, MS = mini-series

Originally posted by elmwood
A few dumb Battlestar questions, even though I've seen (but probabl forgotten many elements of) the original series.

* Why did humanity leave Kobol? Are there any humans still there?

To my knowledge, this info wasn't provided in either OS or MS.

* Are the 12 Colonies different planets around different solar systems, or different planets in the same system? Are they different stetes on one large planet?

They are 12 planets in the same system in the OS, IIRC. I think this was carried over into the MS, but I didn't catch anything that would address this point in particular. Yes, let's not mind the physical difficulty in having this be the case. ;)

People from the different colonial worlds are supposed to be distinguishable by language, character, etc., which in the OS was loosely tied to supposed characteristics of different signs of the Zodiac (Caprica = Capricorn, Gemenon = Gemini, etc.).

* Did any timeline ever consider evidence of human evolution on Earth, challenging the BG universe's "humans came from Kobol" premise?

Nope!

* What happened to the humans left in the Colonies? Enslaved? Killed?

This was never directly addressed, but given the statements in both the OS and MS I think it's safe to assume the Cylons meant to destroy all humans.

* Why did the Cylons want to wipe out humanity, anyhow? If they hated humans for creating and enslaving them, why not just go someplace far, far away and stay there?

In the MS... pure revenge?

In the OS, it's important to remember that the Cylons were NOT the creation of humans at all, but rather a dying race of Reptilian creatures (anyone remember the Imperious Leader)? Humans ran afoul of the Cylons when they came to the defense of some other race the Cylons were trying to subjugate.

* Was the PR guy a "sleeper" who finally became aware of his Cylon-ness after encountering the other Cylons, or was he a Cylon all along who tried to do a very convinving job of proclaiming his innocence? [/B]

I think he was like Cylon superbabe - aware of who he was all the time.

levdrakon

12-10-2003, 01:02 PM

Have we figured out yet who left Adama the memo about there only being 12 cylon models? We've got Boomer, Hot Babe, the stowaway guy and the PR guy. If we count the old toaster style and the new upgraded toasters, that's six. Do the cylon attack ships count as a model? Then we have seven. I wonder if the little kid hanging out with Boomer could be one?

If these new Cylons are sooo human, right down to their blood, internal organs, emotions etc, what's the big diff? It's like Canadians. Sure they look like us, talk like us, think like us and sometimes we fall in love with them and have sex with them but, nooo! They're Canadians and we must develop a super advanced method of detecting them and wipe them out! I had the same problem with Replicants, too.

Anyway, why does Number Six apparently have a thing for Baltar and why is she helping him? On the one hand, she steals his codes so the Cylons can swoop down and wipe out humanity, but then she saves him from an explosion, helps him escape and then alerts him to the fact that there is Cylon tech onboard the Galactica and there might be Cylon spies & sleeper agents?

Tars Tarkas

12-10-2003, 01:09 PM

Ok, i liked it, despite it's flaws. So no naked tape burning here. I did like there wasn't some "Battlestar Galactica defeats the odds and takes down the entire Cylon fleet themselves" thing going on, and it got better when they gave up and ran. Plus the Earth thing was a nice touch, i though i read somewhere that Earth was destroyed, so i was worried that they wouldn't include anything like that (they must have meant Kobol was destroyed). I would have made the sleeper agent that little kid, since that would be cool and i have seen Screamers too many times. Boomer just doesn't make sense, her backstory is she grew up on the Galactica, you would think that the fleet would notice 15 different asian women with the same DNA suddenly joining at the same time. Good thing none were ever stationed together. Since all these Sexbots are running around banging dudes left and right, how come no one has ever noticed glowing red spines?

And i still hate Starbuck.

VunderBob

12-10-2003, 01:11 PM

kasuo

12-10-2003, 01:28 PM

I think the 4 colonies mentioned in the initial attack were probably within the same solar system. The rest of the colonies can be assumed to be in neighboring star systems.

Finagle

12-10-2003, 01:30 PM

Fairly decent remake. The big battle scenes were well done.

One question about the BG Universe, though. If FTL travel is so common that half of the commercial carriers have it, then how come they only have 13 colonies? What's this Red Zone thing?

Granted, starting up new colonies is expensive and maybe they weren't motivated, but you'd think that they'd have charted a huge amount of space.

msmith537

12-10-2003, 01:52 PM

Have we figured out yet who left Adama the memo about there only being 12 cylon models?

I'm guessing Baltar. Who else would?

Originally posted by John Mace
I absolutely agree. The understated drum beat score was original and still good at building tension. I think we've all seen enough battle scenes with overpowering musical scores-- why do that again??

EXACTLY.. if they were going to do that, you mind as well have one lone fighter hit some weak point on the ship, have the pilot emit a YEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAAAAWWW!!! and have the Cylons explode with a great big ring of fiery plasma..

I did notice a disturbing lack of 1920's Style Death Rays though.

Etherman

12-10-2003, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by levdrakon
Have we figured out yet who left Adama the memo about there only being 12 cylon models? We've got Boomer, Hot Babe, the stowaway guy and the PR guy. If we count the old toaster style and the new upgraded toasters, that's six. Do the cylon attack ships count as a model? Then we have seven. I wonder if the little kid hanging out with Boomer could be one?

I guess I thought the toasters didn't count, and it was 12 human like ones. From the scene on the station at the beginning, and the one at the end where they all meet, I inferred that they (the human like ones) are the leaders, and the toasters were just the "grunts" as it were.

Also is hot babe in Baltar's head, like some form of implant or telepathy, or is he just imagining her? If he is imagining her, how is he getting the extra information, i/e the Cylon bug thingy on the bridge?

finagle

I think the "red line" is the edge of explored space, I got the impression they were very isolationist, and had sort of "hunkered down" after the last war, hence the fact that they had no intelligence what so ever on the Cylons.

ElvisL1ves

12-10-2003, 03:04 PM

The fembot implanted a chip in Baltar's head, containing her entire personality and memories. She can appear to him whenever she wants.

I want my frackin' series. NOW, people. Sign those contracts.

Kilt-wearin' man

12-10-2003, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by elmwood
* Did any timeline ever consider evidence of human evolution on Earth, challenging the BG universe's "humans came from Kobol" premise?

* What happened to the humans left in the Colonies? Enslaved? Killed?

* Why did the Cylons want to wipe out humanity, anyhow? If they hated humans for creating and enslaving them, why not just go someplace far, far away and stay there?

* Was the PR guy a "sleeper" who finally became aware of his Cylon-ness after encountering the other Cylons, or was he a Cylon all along who tried to do a very convinving job of proclaiming his innocence?

I'll just tackle this handful of questions...

Origin of humanity? Addressed at the beginning of every episode of the original series: "There are those who believe... that life here... began out there. Far across the universe. With tribes of humans... who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians... or the Toltecs... or the Mayans... that they may have been the architects of the Great Pyramids... or the lost civilizations of Lemuria... or Atlantis... Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man... who even now fight to survive... somewhere beyond the heavens"

The humans left in the Colonies? Toast. In the pilot episode for the original series it was stated a couple of times that the purpose of the attack was to destroy humanity. At one point Baltar asks a Cylon what his orders regarding humans are. The reply? "Extermination."

Why were the Cylons so pissy? Well, in the original, they were not a creation of humanity. In one episode, Boxey asks his step-father Apollo the same question ("Why do the Cylons want to kill us?") and the answer is that the Cylons have a history of either destroying or enslaving any race they encounter that is not exactly like theirs. Humanity apparently doesn't take kindly to being enslaved, so a thousand-year war was started.

PR guy? No such character or situation existed on the original show.

carnivorousplant

12-10-2003, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by levdrakon

Anyway, why does Number Six apparently have a thing for Baltar and why is she helping him?

I think there is some adolescent "sex is evil" Freudian thing going on. Baltar "sees" her in his head and talks to her, like the ID or Ego.
She is around when he decides to frame the guy, when he chose not to steal no. 47 from the woman, like consulting his evil side,

Anyway, perhaps she stuck an implant up his nose while he was asleep and she talks to his brain by electronics. They'd have to be FTL and you'd figure she could act as a spy if she chose.

Ponder Stibbons

12-10-2003, 04:27 PM

I wonder if Baltar is unknowingly a cylon himself. Remember the big nuke scene where the fembot seemingly protects him? Perhaps the cylons actually had a Baltar-bot body ready and took the opportunity to "download" his personality from his fatally damaged but not yet dead body after the nuclear blast. Now he thinks he is rooting out cylong agents, which is just fine by the cylons because as they are expelled from the fleet they deliver intelligence to the following cylons! The image of the fembot is just some programming that makes sure he doesn't do anything they don't want him to do.

Just a thought ...

Eats_Crayons

12-10-2003, 04:46 PM

Eats_Crayons

12-10-2003, 04:52 PM

Eats_Crayons

12-10-2003, 04:55 PM

What the hell was that???

I didn't even post anything!

Man, the hamsters must be on serious drugs.

John Mace

12-10-2003, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Ponder Stibbons
I wonder if Baltar is unknowingly a cylon himself. Remember the big nuke scene where the fembot seemingly protects him? Perhaps the cylons actually had a Baltar-bot body ready and took the opportunity to "download" his personality from his fatally damaged but not yet dead body after the nuclear blast. Now he thinks he is rooting out cylong agents, which is just fine by the cylons because as they are expelled from the fleet they deliver intelligence to the following cylons! The image of the fembot is just some programming that makes sure he doesn't do anything they don't want him to do.

Just a thought ...

Good thought. At some point later, it is revealed that there is actually a 7th version of Cylon, and he's unique. Of course, how they'd disguise the fact that the most renowned scientist in the universe had no trace of a childhood...?

Did anyone notice that the countdown to "jump" must be in some weird time reference-- each BG second takes about 3 earth seconds.

The Long Road

12-10-2003, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Eats_Crayons
What the hell was that???

I didn't even post anything!

Man, the hamsters must be on serious drugs.

But, still, I thank you for quoting me twice! ;)

The Long Road

12-10-2003, 08:59 PM

Did anyone else get the last line in the show made by the Boomer-bot, "by your command"? While I don't know whom it was directed to, it was a small but nice nod to the original series.

The part where the human fleet left the STL ships behind was exceedingly well done. In the original series, one of the hero pilots would have found a way to divert the Cylon attack and save everyone. In the MS, sacrifices have to be made. The part where the other ship commanders were yelling at them things such as,"I hope you people rot in hell for this" was excellent TV.

OK, my one real complaint about the MS. Why did they feel the need to have us watch Edward James Olmos suck up noodles for 20 seconds? I watched BSG to see some good sci-fi, not disgusting-sucking-noodles-into-your-face-fi. Who was the writer who thought that was a good idea? "Oh I know what will cap it off, let's have Adama suck up a bunch of noodles!"

carnivorousplant

12-10-2003, 09:32 PM

That ain't much to complain about, Long.
:)

levdrakon

12-11-2003, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by The Long Road
Did anyone else get the last line in the show made by the Boomer-bot, "by your command"?

I heard that, but I thought it was the Hot-bot saying it to Boomer. Made me wonder, too.

elf6c

12-11-2003, 07:49 AM

It was pretty good. I was shocked. The second part was really strong, actually.

I was a fan of the first series, but this pretty much blew it away. I doubt they could hold the quality and tension for a series. But I would watch to find out.

Gorgon Heap

12-11-2003, 08:05 AM

Ditto.

Kilt-wearin' man

12-11-2003, 08:53 AM

Of course, you all realize our opinions don't matter because Earth is just a myth that Adama's taking advantage of to hold the fleet together and give the survivors something to live for...so we don't exist.

msmith537

12-11-2003, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by The Long Road
OK, my one real complaint about the MS. Why did they feel the need to have us watch Edward James Olmos suck up noodles for 20 seconds? I watched BSG to see some good sci-fi, not disgusting-sucking-noodles-into-your-face-fi. Who was the writer who thought that was a good idea? "Oh I know what will cap it off, let's have Adama suck up a bunch of noodles!" [/B]

They were Space-Noodles

Kilt-wearin' man

12-11-2003, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by msmith537
They were Space-Noodles

Apparently, along with the giftshop in the starboard launch bay, there's also a decent Thai restaraunt...

filmore

12-11-2003, 09:18 AM

Why is there so much present day Earth culture if Earth is just a myth? Why are people wearing suits and ties? And smoking cigars (tobacco comes from where?) Drinking bottles of whiskey? How would they know about any of that if they weren't in constant contact with Earth?

brianmelendez

12-11-2003, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by filmore
Why is there so much present day Earth culture if Earth is just a myth? Why are people wearing suits and ties? And smoking cigars (tobacco comes from where?)
North Carolinon?

Doomtrain

12-11-2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Kilt-wearin' man
Of course, you all realize our opinions don't matter because Earth is just a myth that Adama's taking advantage of to hold the fleet together and give the survivors something to live for...so we don't exist.

Our Machine overlords are just using it to mess with us. We're really in weird sleeper pod thingies as batteries.

[Ralph Wiggum Voice]I'm double A![/RWV]

kasuo

12-11-2003, 10:13 AM

If this ever develops into a regular series, I'm sure there would be some episode or on-going storyline involving the actual discovery that Earth really does exist.

Let's just hope that should they ever find Earth, it's not going to be 1980. What a horrible thing to relive.

Kilt-wearin' man

12-11-2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by kasuo
If this ever develops into a regular series, I'm sure there would be some episode or on-going storyline involving the actual discovery that Earth really does exist.

Let's just hope that should they ever find Earth, it's not going to be 1980. What a horrible thing to relive.

Thanks to the sheer geekiness I'm experiencing thanks to this thread, I ran across an interview with Kent McCord, who played one of the Not Starbuck And Apollo main characters from Galactica 1980 and had been on Adam 12 before that. He mentions numerous arguments he had with the network bigwigs about how kids understood what was going on when he was on the successful cop show in the same time slot, so they really didn't have to dumb down the sci-fi show so much... He says he knew they were irrevocably screwed when he saw the script with the Galactica children gaining superpowers because of Earth's "lower gravity"... and using said powers to win a baseball game. <<shudder>>

kasuo

12-11-2003, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Kilt-wearin' man
He says he knew they were irrevocably screwed when he saw the script with the Galactica children gaining superpowers because of Earth's "lower gravity"... and using said powers to win a baseball game. <<shudder>>

Imagine if those kids also developed powers of flight, heat and x-ray vision. :rolleyes:

Hammer

12-11-2003, 01:07 PM

Interesting to see the opinions of people who didn't like or didn't see the origanal show. I didn't much care for it but I big fan of the original. I think it would have gone down a lot easier if they had just dropped the character names completely. These characters don't share traits with the old so start fresh. It may be why I liked the Chief Tyrol character the most. However, since this is the only BSG going I'm sure I'll follow it.

Things about the new that bothered me:
A ship about to be decomissioned would still have it's armaments. It was still carrying it's vipers and appeared to have a full crew, so why not have a single bullet to shoot down that lone nuke? And why so little damage from a direct hit? magic metal I guess.

The whole first scene was useless. let's tip our hand by blowing up a remote station first and lets sacrifice a few of troops to do it.

I the initial sex with Baltar help sell the idea that he's been seduced but it seemed like the first 30 minutes every time a man and women got together they had sex. Fun to watch, but not what you expect when this was billed as real and gritty.

Did #6 survive the blast that took out Baltars house? It's pretty clearly established that they are almost perfect copies of humans and organic so she should have been ripped up? And where did that terminator strength come from? Again they are basically human.

Smoke detector bug in plain sight on the bridge?

There's more but I'll stop with the bullets. Not sure why they decided to go the bullet route but I can see that creating a pretty be problem to write around. They've jumped completely past known space and it looked to me like they nearly shot their wad. Guess they'll run into another friendly ammo dump out there with plenty of standard colonial bullets. Or maybe they will just ignore it. Those vipers seem to be able to spew thousands of rounds without the obvious size to carry them.

levdrakon

12-11-2003, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by kasuo
If this ever develops into a regular series, I'm sure there would be some episode or on-going storyline involving the actual discovery that Earth really does exist.

Let's just hope that should they ever find Earth, it's not going to be 1980. What a horrible thing to relive.

When the president asked, "there is no Earth, is there?" and Adama replied, "yes, you're right, Earth is a legend" I was thinking, "IANA lawyerion, but did he technically, irrefutably state there is no Earth and he knows there is no Earth? Or was there some wiggle room there? I was kinda thinking Adama in fact does know more than he's letting on. He's a sly old bird and knows that anyone could be a Cylon spy. And who trusts the president with really important stuff, anyway?

Oh, and I kinda liked the noodle slurping. Made him seem human, and made me hungry.

Doomtrain

12-11-2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Hammer
It was still carrying it's vipers and appeared to have a full crew, so why not have a single bullet to shoot down that lone nuke? And why so little damage from a direct hit? magic metal I guess.

They said something like "The plating absorbed most of the blast," so I imagine the magic metal is more mundane armor plating.

And he did say "Earth is a legend," which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. *I* think it was just a hedge, in case they don't find it.

ddgryphon

12-11-2003, 02:57 PM

Well, I mostly agree with Tars Tarkas. The second episode saved them from the horror of the first two totally wasted hours. I like that they've matured the story (and I definitely don't mean the sex). While it has problems, I'm starved enough for this kind of entertainment that if they make it a series, I will probably watch. I've seen many episodes of Mutant X and still can't say I like the show, but I keep hoping.

Among my complaints:

The Cylon Blonde Bombshell -- for people who trumpeted the "no cliche" approach to telling this story, a blonde automaton evil, killing machine is pretty cliche these days.

Starbuck -- Why is it that when you dump every cliche a typical male character would have into a female character, it isn't considered cliche? She is horrible and I hate the choices the actress herself has made with the character.

On the other hand:

Adama and the President -- very good characters (though on the sad side, I miss the Moses imagery of Lorn Greene and his beautiful voice).

Boomer -- either a template or a plant that worked great for me!

Gaius Baltar -- I like this guy (though he keeps reminding me of Alexander Siddig, and I think I'd rather see him in this role) I think he will unknowingly betray humanity or do it for incredibly complex and selfish reasons.

Don't mind the retooled battlestar or vipers -- but why have so much glass on a ship (and apparently not safety glass) -- as Gilbert Gottfried would say, "What the F***?"

I'll probably watch it -- depending on what it's up against, and even then, If possible, I'll probably tape it.

Maybe a double, but not a home run, that's for sure.

Hammer

12-11-2003, 03:39 PM

Rumor on one of the fan sites is that it won't be picked up for a regular series. Too expensive. That's not surprising considering the original was killed for that same reason. 20th rated show but production cost were way out of line for that kind of rating.

Was anybody else surprised that we didn't get a huge armada attacking the colonies during the opening fight? You almost got the feeling that 2 raiders did the whole thing. I think they were going for the "leave them in the dark" style to build a feeling of tension and dread but it just fell flat to me.

levdrakon

12-11-2003, 03:43 PM

Gaius Baltar -- I like this guy (though he keeps reminding me of Alexander Siddig, and I think I'd rather see him in this role)

I agree. In fact, I've seen several actors lately that look like Siddig and I keep thinking if that's the look you're going for, why not get the original? But I like the current Baltar actor too.

Two other actors/characters I like, and would hope get permanent roles. The president's pilot when she was on the transport ship. I've seen him elsewhere, but his salt & peppery goodness seems to be getting better with age. Also, the other XO guy on the Galactica's bridge that seems to do everything when Adama & Tigh aren't there, and mostly everything when they are. He kinda reminds me of a gentler Ivanova from Babylon Five. I liked his interaction with Baltar and it seems not much gets done competently on the bridge without him.

Nately's Whore

12-11-2003, 04:12 PM

A nuke in space does not have the same effect as it does on a planet with an atmosphere. When a nuke goes off in space it just generates a lot of heat and radiation. There is no shock wave or concussive blast. Those only happen when an atmosphere is present.

kasuo

12-11-2003, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by levdrakon
I was kinda thinking Adama in fact does know more than he's letting on. He's a sly old bird and knows that anyone could be a Cylon spy. And who trusts the president with really important stuff, anyway?

Yeah, I kind of got that same feeling.

Oh, and I kinda liked the noodle slurping. Made him seem human, and made me hungry.

Given all that stuff they were going through, I kind of took that scene as showing that Adama was so busy with everything that was going on that he didn't have time to eat.. and even then, the President interrupted him too.

Kilt-wearin' man

12-11-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Hammer
Was anybody else surprised that we didn't get a huge armada attacking the colonies during the opening fight? You almost got the feeling that 2 raiders did the whole thing. I think they were going for the "leave them in the dark" style to build a feeling of tension and dread but it just fell flat to me.

Now that you mention it, yeah, I think you're right. I can see how the decision was made to show the destruction of the colonies from the POV of the Galactica's crew - outside the action and helpless to affect the outcome. Kinda like the battle of Wolf 359 on Star Trek TNG - including the fly-though of the fleet wreckage when Boomer and Helo have to set down on Caprica for repairs (I will admit being somewhat impressed with the destroyed battlestar they flew by).

Still, other battlestars would've been sending every scrap of info they could've to the fleet at large including video feed and tactical schematics of the battles. Modern US military forces do this, and it's probably a role that Boomer's "raptor" spacecraft would fill just as US "predator" UAV's filled that role in Afghanistan.

As far as the destruction of the cities, even after using nuclear weapons on the major population centers, there would still be a lot of work to do to get rid of all the humans - although there were a lot of mushroom clouds on the horizon on Caprica when Boomer and Helo set down for repairs. Looks like the Cylons never want to be able to set foot on their planets of origin - at least not the new humanoid Cylons. If they're really biological and are so human they pass medical exams, then all that radiation will kill them in short order and would continue to for thousands of years to come... If the Cylons want to use those planets for anything then conventional means would need to be used to wipe out the human survivors, and the skies of Caprica should've been black with Cylon ships strafing and bombing everything in sight. And Boomer and Helo and Baltar and Boxey and all the other Caprican survivors should've been toast. Especially Boxey. Maybe they got lucky because of the plot twist with Boomer. I'm thinking it's more along the lines of the writers just not thinking that hard about it and deciding that nukes were the way to go.

Doomtrain

12-11-2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Kilt-wearin' man
Still, other battlestars would've been sending every scrap of info they could've to the fleet at large including video feed and tactical schematics of the battles. Modern US military forces do this, and it's probably a role that Boomer's "raptor" spacecraft would fill just as US "predator" UAV's filled that role in Afghanistan.

Assuming they were functional, but remember they were all having all kinds of weird mechanical problems and one shut down just before it ran into the enemy. So you could assume that their video feeds, etc. were being jammed or otherwise messed up.

elmwood

12-11-2003, 07:27 PM

Many fanboys apparently seem to like it (http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/03/12/11/1731211.shtml?tid=129&tid=134&tid=160&tid=186&tid=188&tid=214).

The Long Road

12-12-2003, 12:25 AM

Elmwood, I've seen several fanboy website that hated the idea ling before the series came out. It centers around how they want the old show brought back and figure this will kill that idea for good. Someone mentioned the rumors on the fan websites that a series would not be made because it is too expensive. Well, the fanboys are hoping for this and it doesn't suprise me that such a rumor would spread.

I liked the original BSG even thought it was a bit corny. This one was much better. The gratuitous sex was a bit overboard but the show has to appeal to a larger audience than just sci-fi nerds. Compared to Star Trek where every episode they pulled some miracle out of their ass to save the ship, the new BSG was a godsend. Real science fiction without a bunch of garbage technobabble thrown in to make it seem futuristic.

Must....resist....mention.....of....BSG 1980.....argh!!!

The Long Road

12-12-2003, 01:03 AM

I e-mailed Sci Fi asking for a series. I figured the people who hate the idea of a new series are making their voice knows. Anyone wanting drop a line about this can do so by e-mailing program@www.scifi.com

I guess I am desperate for some decent science fiction on tv.

The Mad Hermit

12-12-2003, 09:08 AM

It might just be me, but when the Cylon ships first appeared in the brief fight with Galactica's fighters, did anyone else think " It's Batman?"

I thought that was Alexander Siddig at first too.

Starbuck's voice is shrill. You can hear it best during the report she made from the edge of the cloud, before the last battle.

The Galactica's front end used to look like a crocodile. Now it looks like a millipede. Check it out.

I didn't realize it until someone pointed it out that in the original they were gambling at Carillon just one day after the colonies were wasted. There was no FTL travel, space was conveniently small enough to cruise around in with chemical rockets, but they had advanced lasers on the Vipers. I like how all these points were handled in the new incarnation.

Hammer

12-12-2003, 12:55 PM

Actually there was FTL travel but not all of the ships had that capability so they traveled at the speed of the slowest ship. The casino thing seemed goofy but the original story was based on the exodus bible story. Which, called for them falling pretty quickly back into sin, yada, yada, maybe the cylons won't kill us if we just lay down our arms to prove we are no threat, yada, yada. I liked the fact that new story just skips that all together, and leaving the slowest ships behind was more intense. I still think that switching to bullets was a style choice that wasn't thought out very well. It's pretty easy to just say that the lasers are generated through the engine power somehow and long as you can continue to locate fuel you have weapons. Bullets have to be manufactured and as far as we know they have jumped far past known space. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with that should a series be produced.

Can someone enlighten me on the Far Valley reference? They seemed to be refering to the Botany ship with the little girl which just reminded me of the one in the original series?

Kilt-wearin' man

12-12-2003, 03:33 PM

I got the impression (possibly because of my earlier complaints of the Galactica having no defenses in part one except her fighters) that all of the bullets/ammunition they picked up at Ragnar were for the Galactica's ship-mounted weapons. Remember, it's only after all of these munitions are loaded aboard that the Galactica herself gets into the fight and unleashes an impressive amount of firepower from dozens of gun batteries.

The Vipers never seemed to run short of ammunition and seemed to be firing energy weapons all through both episodes in rapid-fire bursts. Viper weapons fire looked different from the Galactica's artillery fire - could just be the effects guys adding variety, or it could represent different types of weapons. Maybe large explosive projectile weapons have a higher destructive yeild than energy weapons, but a much slower rate of fire, so fast-cycling energy weapons are the choice for fighters while projectile weapons are used for the big guns?

carnivorousplant

12-12-2003, 06:27 PM

If you are defending Galactica against incoming missiles, couldn't you just throw all sorts of solid junk out for them to run into at speed? I sem to recall that BBs sitting still in relation to an orbiting satellite would take it out. Just fire buckshot out there in huge clouds.

Declan

12-12-2003, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Hammer
Actually there was FTL travel but not all of the ships had that capability so they traveled at the speed of the slowest ship. The casino thing seemed goofy but the original story was based on the exodus bible story. Which, called for them falling pretty quickly back into sin, yada, yada, maybe the cylons won't kill us if we just lay down our arms to prove we are no threat, yada, yada. I liked the fact that new story just skips that all together, and leaving the slowest ships behind was more intense. I still think that switching to bullets was a style choice that wasn't thought out very well. It's pretty easy to just say that the lasers are generated through the engine power somehow and long as you can continue to locate fuel you have weapons. Bullets have to be manufactured and as far as we know they have jumped far past known space. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with that should a series be produced.

Can someone enlighten me on the Far Valley reference? They seemed to be refering to the Botany ship with the little girl which just reminded me of the one in the original series?

I believe the original ship was called the Valley Forge , in the movie silent running , with Bruce Dern and a bunch of robots that liked to cheat in poker by talking with each other in binary.

Anyways ,the ship got resurrected in the original galactica series and premiered in the episode The Magnificigent Warriors.

It would appear that at least a very good CGI version is around , if that was not the original model.

Declan

Declan

12-12-2003, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by The Long Road
I e-mailed Sci Fi asking for a series. I figured the people who hate the idea of a new series are making their voice knows. Anyone wanting drop a line about this can do so by e-mailing program@www.scifi.com

I guess I am desperate for some decent science fiction on tv.

Check your local listings and see if one of the stations is carrying a show called Starhunter

Declan

Declan

12-12-2003, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by carnivorousplant
If you are defending Galactica against incoming missiles, couldn't you just throw all sorts of solid junk out for them to run into at speed? I sem to recall that BBs sitting still in relation to an orbiting satellite would take it out. Just fire buckshot out there in huge clouds.

With the shipboard weapons that the galactica used at the end , the ball bearings seem kind of superflous, it looked like it did just well against all incoming missiles.

As a last ditch effort it might have worked if they had something to throw at it , which worked in Space Above and Beyond , but stuff like that needs to be prepackaged and ready to launch on a moments notice , and there was no garuntee that the leaker was not armored.

Shotgun style attacks work right now in space cause with the launch weight of the sats ,there is no such thing as armor, but in a universe where the weapons are launched in space ,from a space faring race , armor on the weapons as well as decent penaids would be the order of the day.

Declan