Question to Parents

[Intaglio]

Would you leave your children with 2 Girls age 14 & 13?, now just the age says a Big Fat NO to me, but not only are they young, but they are runaways - who could just up and leave anytime.

A Father in Minneapolis, MN left his 4 Children - ages 5, 3, 2, & 1 with 2 Runaway Girls - 14 & 13, that he was mentoring to. He is an out of work Minister, I don't know what kind of work he is doing now, but his Children ended up missing, appearantly the 2 girls took the children to The Mall of America - which is pretty freaking hugh, and not to mention packed with shoppers doing Christmas Shopping, the children and girls disappeared. The Children were found and brought back home. The Father wants the 2 girls who have been found and taken into police custody charged as adults.

Isn't the Father at fault also, isn't it is bad judgement to leave children with girls that young? And the circumstances that are involved as well, aren't the best judgement either.

What do you think?

[Helen's Eidolon]

I was babysitting at the age of 13/14. I wouldn't have taken the kids to a mall, but the age itself doesn't seem a problem for me.

[PatriotX]

Lots of babysitters're that age.

[MissTake]

One of the girls has lived in the house off/on for the past few years. From what the news was saying, the girls had taken the children to the MoA the day before, and had gotten into trouble for it. The man told the girl that had been in the house for a while that because she broke the rules, she was being returned home. She didn't want to go home, so took off.

Would I leave my child with a 13/14 year old? Yes, especially if that child had been part of the household for a considerable time. I would guess the children thought her to basically be a sibling.

I give the teenagers some credit- they didn't take off leaving the children home alone (which sadly does occur quite often). I can understand their fear- they effed up BIG time, and they knew there was going to be BIG trouble when they came back. I'm sure they didn't expect the media focus or to be jailed. Dad wants them to be charged as adults, which will not happen.

[Lucretia]

In this particular case, there appeared to be some other issues at work, but in general, no, 13-14 is not nessecarily too young to babysit. It really does depend on the individual youngster.

When my children were small, I had a some very good, reliable babysitters that age, and when my son was 12, I judged him to be level-headed enough to start leaving him in charge of his sisters for short periods of time.

Now my youngest, at 12, has just completed the Red Cross babysitting class and wants to start babysitting for neighbors. She's a smart, responsible girl, and if the parents and Bluesman and I are both comfortable with the situation, (i.e., no infants yet), I see no reason why she shouldn't.

[Mithril]

I started babysitting at 14, and was a great sitter. The one time I had a problem, I called my mom for help. The point of a babysitter is not to be able to handle things as an adult would, but to know enough to call in an adult when things are hectic. Anyway, what adult would work for $2.50 an hour, as I did?

Charging the two girls as adults is asinine. Did they do anything particularly heinous? No - they merely showed bad judgement. The fact that children oftentimes practice bad judgement is why we have juvenile courts in the first place.

[belladonna]

Paging Linky McLinkerstein...




and yes, I would. I started babysitting at 11 and never managed to get myself jailed for kidnapping

[Gatopescado]

No fucking way! What possibly could a 13 yr old do in an emergency situation?

I am reluctant to leave my kid with his grandparents, fer crimany sake!

Dude is an idiot.

______________
BCS stands for (illegitimate child) + (crowing rooster) + (Tootsie Pops)

[SnoopyFan]

There's a 14 year old at my church that I would trust with my kid. She's a horse of a different color, though, ULTRA mature and responsible.

The age isn't a problem in the situation in the OP. It's the girls themselves.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Charged with what, exactly?

Going shopping? Colour me confused.

[C3]

I don't get it - exactly what does he want these girls charged with? Being stupid? I think the dad needs to chill out and take responsibility for entrusting his kids to girls that probably weren't the best choices.

And MissTake - do you mean that the girls went to the MoA with the kids, came home, got in trouble, and then the next day did it again, losing the kids?

Definite linkage needed.

[carimwc]

I started babysitting around age 12. Of course I had completed a babysitting class and started out babysitting my younger brother. I also did my first jobs in tandem with a friend of the same age. This expanded into a regular babysitting business which I made a lot of money out of.

12 year olds do know what to do in emergencies as long as the parents are responsible enough to leave the proper information in a prominant place (ie the fridge, by the phone). That info includes 911, local police #s, where they are going to be that night, those numbers, numbers of neighbors, etc. It's the parents' responsibilty to make sure that the sitter is informed of these things and knows all important information like allergies and things. Of course the sitter should know to ask those questions too.

I don't think it was the ages of the girls that was the problem. As SnoopyFan said, it's the girls themselves. They were dumb. They did something without the parent's permission- a HUGE baby-sitting no-no.

[dangermom]

I also started babysitting at 12, with a Red Cross Babysitter's certificate under my belt. My current favorite babysitter is nearly 18, but since she has a life, our next choice is a set of 13 and 14-yo sisters who nearly always come together. They have lots of emergency numbers, their parents are around the corner, and I've told them what to do.

[furlibusea]

So let me get this straight. Good Minister dude is foster parent to two teenagers who he uses as free babysitting. Then when foster child screws up ( which teenagers do, it is their job) he threatens her with putting her back with her family. Yah, those people the state thought were so bad they should take her away. So the next day he goes off leaving the slave labor to babysit again. So is anyone suprised she ran away?

I respect the courage most foster parents, and really wish I had it. Then I see the people that give the system a bad name. I can't think of a charge off hand, but it seems to me there is a grown up in this situation that should face charges as an adult.

[Mr2001]

Originally posted by Mithril
Charging the two girls as adults is asinine. Did they do anything particularly heinous? No - they merely showed bad judgement. The fact that children oftentimes practice bad judgement is why we have juvenile courts in the first place.
Hear hear.. this guy hires kids, whom he doesn't have to pay minimum wage; but when they screw up, he wants them held to adult standards. He can eat his cake, or he can hang onto it, but he can't do both.

[Elza B]

I was a mother's helper at age eleven. By age 12, I was baby-sitting toddlers and older children, by 13, I was the main baby-sitter for all the children in the neighborhood - newborns and up. I used to pull in about $200 a week in the summer baby-sitting - not too shabby in 1987. I was an incredibly responsible pre-teen and teen, and I took my sitting jobs seriously.

I think these girls were just being typical teens, but they shouldn't have been left in charge of those kids. There were previous circumstances that seemed to have been overlooked.

Ava

[Beadalin]

No fucking way! What possibly could a 13 yr old do in an emergency situation?
Are you serious? Shit, I was babysitting by 11, and kept it up until I went to college (and some in college, too). 13-year-olds can know just as much as adults about what to do in an emergency: it's a matter of knowing who to call. Parents leave behind lists of phone numbers and instructions, and everything's fine. I find it hard to believe that you actually think an adult could somehow magically repair an emergency situation where a teen can't.

Here's a link to the story of the kids' return (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/7454462.htm).

Here's a link to the story about possible charges (http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4261127.html).

[Beadalin]

So let me get this straight. Good Minister dude is foster parent to two teenagers who he uses as free babysitting.Not even close.

Here are some key parts of the story, in case either of those articles moves into being archived:

[quote]He [the father] maintains he made the right decision to leave his children with the pair despite the fact the two were runaways and had taken refuge in his home for the weekend.

He described Benetta as "a spiritual daughter" whom he knew as the niece of a minister at El Bethel Baptist Church, the South Minneapolis church he attends.

Addison, who recently separated from his wife, said his family had counseled Benetta, who has run away before. He said she called him early Saturday from a motel and asked if she and her friend could come over. He said he allowed them to sleep in his daughters' room.

Saturday morning the pair began cleaning the house and helping with the children, he said. The girls took the children to McDonald's with his permission, but then took off to the Mall of America, returning about midnight with the children.

An angry Addison scolded the girls. He told them they would need to return to their families Sunday. He had notified Benetta's grandparents, her primary guardians, of her whereabouts and told them she had taken off with the children.

On Sunday morning, the teens weren't ready by the time Addison decided to go to the service. When he returned at 3 p.m., no one was home. By 9 p.m., he called 911 and explained to the dispatcher what had happened and told her he thought they might have gone back to the Mall of America. She told him to talk with Mall of America security.

When he didn't hear from them early Monday, he called 911 again.[quote]
The news stories airing about this before the children were found also made it clear that the father is in a bit of a bind when it comes to childcare. His wife of six years had a drug relapse they separated less than a month ago. He has been searching for appropriate care so that he can continue to work.

[alice_in_wonderland]

But I still don't get what they're going to be charged with?

Shopping without permission? This is a 12 and 13 year old - I'm not sure the pastors childcare woes are their fault. At all. Even remotely.

[Gatopescado]

Originally posted by Beadalin
Are you serious? Shit, I was babysitting by 11

Furthermore, I wouldn't leave an an 11 year old unsupervised, either, much less in charge of my kid! :eek: Don't you people read the news? :confused:

Let me attempt to clarify: I would not leave my kid with anybody who can't care for him at least as well as I can. This includes people who can't drive/walk/use common sense/druggies/keep vicious animals/whatever. I wouldn't leave him with anybody who could be fooled into allowing a stranger into the house (like, say a naive but well-meaning pre-teen or my doddering Father-in-Law), or couldn't put up a good fight if someone tried.

Cars, motorcycles, money, equipment can all be replaced. My kid cannot, so I take a little extra caution.

________________
Never kiss an animal that can lick its own butt.

[Beadalin]

But I still don't get what they're going to be charged with?Kidnapping, apparently, given that they took four children with them for more than two days. But I don't see anywhere that the father is pushing for the charges, nor that he's pushing them to be tried as adults. I've read all the stories and listened to the news, and haven't seen that at all. However, the cops who questioned the teenagers have suggested that they could be charged with kidnapping. Whether or not they actually get charged, much less tried, and tried as adults, remains to be seen.

This is a 12 and 13 year old - I'm not sure the pastors childcare woes are their fault. At all. Even remotely.Who said they were? I was trying to point out that the father wasn't the moron that some posters seem to think he was, for leaving his children in their care. He had reason to believe that he could trust them. When they betrayed that trust once, he scolded them and believed the issue to be over. Teenagers screw up, but rarely this badly -- I'm sure he thought the scolding would be enough. Turns out, it wasn't, and they betrayed his trust again and much worse than the day before. In hindsight, he certainly shouldn't have left the kids with them again, but they seemed contrite and were even helping around the house. So he went to church, and the rest unfolded as it did.

gatopescado said:
Let me attempt to clarify: I would not leave my kid with anybody who can't care for him at least as well as I can. OK. Different strokes, I suppose. I was mature and responsible at 11. By that age, and certainly by 13/14, I knew how to use common sense, avoid druggies, keep vicious animals out of the house, etc. Sheesh. Babysitting largely involves NOT LEAVING THE HOUSE, so being able to drive doesn't even enter into it, nor do a lot of strangers or vicious animals turn up, nor would I open the door if they did. Good God. If there was any emergency at all, like all the parents and other adults I know, I would have called 911, their parents and my parents. Hell, maybe it depends on neighborhood. I was actively babysitting in a nice, middle- to upper-middle class neighborhood where I grew up and knew lots of people. YMMV.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Beadalin

Who said they were? I was trying to point out that the father wasn't the moron that some posters seem to think he was, for leaving his children in their care. He had reason to believe that he could trust them. When they betrayed that trust once, he scolded them and believed the issue to be over. Teenagers screw up, but rarely this badly -- I'm sure he thought the scolding would be enough. Turns out, it wasn't, and they betrayed his trust again and much worse than the day before. In hindsight, he certainly shouldn't have left the kids with them again, but they seemed contrite and were even helping around the house. So he went to church, and the rest unfolded as it did.

?!?!?

The dude is a total moron. He leaves his four young children with 2 teen runaways. The teen runaways demonstrate they are incapable of caring for the children. So he leaves the kids with them again.

He's a moron. Period. And I don't think the teens should be charged with jack shit. He should be charged with being to stupid to live.

[Beadalin]

The dude is a total moron. He leaves his four young children with 2 teen runaways. Two teen runaways = one girl who he loves and treats as his own daughter, and who is a neighbor. He has known her most of her life. She has trouble with her parents, and turns to him for help more than once. The fact that he trusted her does not make him "too stupid to live" in my book.

[alice_in_wonderland]

See, but the whole story doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Beadalin
[B]Two teen runaways = one girl who he loves and treats as his own daughter, and who is a neighbor. /B]

He loves her as his own daughter, but wants her charged as an adult in kidnapping his kids?

Bizarre.

And one point that isn't clear to me - did something happen to his 4 children other than them spending an extended period of time at the mall?

I realize that police time was waisted trying to find the kids, but they're all ok, right? I'm not even sure why this is a news story.

[Beadalin]

e loves her as his own daughter, but wants her charged as an adult in kidnapping his kids?Like I said in an earlier post, none of the stories I have read or listened to on the radio say that the father wants either of the girls charged. The police who questioned them suggested that they could be charged with kidnapping. That's as far as it's gone, as far as I can tell. If someone has a cite that the father a) wants to press charges and b) thinks the girls should be tried as adults, I'd like to see a cite.

The Pioneer Press article ends with:Addison said he harbored no ill feelings against Benetta "because she's just a child."

The Star Tribune article says only this:Prosecutors were considering charges against two baby sitters in their early teens who police say took four young children from a Minneapolis man's home for two days.

The matter, which garnered statewide media attention earlier this week, has been referred to juvenile court for possible prosecution, said a spokesman for the Hennepin County attorney's office on Wednesday.
So far I've been the only one in this thread to show any cites whatsoever. The father, as far as I can see, has not called for charges nor has he said anything at all about them being tried as adults. Or maybe I'm just reading the wrong newspapers.

[Beadalin]

And one point that isn't clear to me - did something happen to his 4 children other than them spending an extended period of time at the mall?
The point was that they disappeared completely for two days. Here's a breakdown of events:

- Father goes to church Sunday morning.
- Girls take children to Mall of America.
- Father returns from church to find house empty. By 9 p.b., is seriously panicked and calls 911. Tells dispatchers that girls may have taken children to MOA.
- Police tell father to call MOA security.
- Father calls mall security.
- Review of security camera tapes show girls and children getting onto city bus outside of mall. Bus route goes to Uptown and then downtown Minneapolis.
- Girls and children do not return that night.
- Father calls 911 again Monday morning.
- Makes news headlines, man is on radio tearfully asking for the safe return of ALL the kids, including teens.
- All kids have still not been seen by Tuesday at 5 pm. By around 7:00 pm, vigilant citizen spots them in an apartment hallway in Uptown. Calls police.
- Police get kids, question teens. Suggest possible kidnapping charges.
- State prosecutors consider charges.

That's how things now stand. This garnered such attention in that 6 underage people were missing but not considered by police to be in immediate danger, at the same time that local news is swamped with stories about the disappearance of a college girl who is missing and now presumed dead, by a convicted child molester who just got out of prison. So, no, nothing happened to the kids other than going on an extended adventure with two irresponsible teens, but it makes folks nervous.

[Q.N. Jones]

I babysat at age 10. For infants. They let me into the Red Cross babysitting class but couldn't give me the certificate because you were supposed to be 12. Had a couple of Girl Scout merit badges in child care, though.

I was incredibly popular because I was smarter and more responsible (and more available!) than most of the teens in the neighborhood.

I hung it up at 14, though--I'd had my fill.

[Q.N. Jones]

P.S.--the father sounds like a grade A dimwit to me.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Ok. So father isn't trying to press charges. (Or he is, but we have no cite.)

BUT, he still left his 4 young children with two teens that had proven themselves to be irresponsible the DAY BEFORE!!

I dunno, I think dad deserves the brunt of the criticism here. My vote still goes to 'Moron'. You'll notice the capital 'M'.