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monica
12-31-2003, 01:17 AM
Perhaps this has been asked before, but I was wondering: Why wasn't Jesus born as a woman? A possible explanation could be that men were more respected in that time, but being the child of God, you would think either sex would have had the ability to convince people of his/her cause and gain respect. Was it just random chance? Any one have an explanation here?

Duck Duck Goose
12-31-2003, 01:26 AM
Women had no power in Bible times, and therefore a female Messiah would not have had the ability to convince people of Her cause and gain respect. She would have been a non-person to begin with, solely by virtue of her possessing the wrong set of gonads, and she would have been ignored at best, locked up at worst.

A man could divorce his wife just by saying to his wife, "I divorce you". That's not a society that's going to pay much attention to a female walking around preaching, "Repent..."

Anal Scurvy
12-31-2003, 01:28 AM
I passed this along to my girlfriend, Anal's Curvy, who just shook her head and said, "I hate this debate." Then she bitched about her women's studies classes, praised Tori Amos, and finished with, "Jesus was a woman."

Scary.

iampunha
12-31-2003, 05:45 PM
"Why wasn't Jesus a woman?" Probably had something to do with the genitalia;) In any case, it's essentially what DDG said ... the society was patriarchal, and as such few women, if any, had power, and probably (certainly?) not the sort of power it would take to cause the uprising and general stir that this individual is credited with causing. And if that individual can't cause a stir, s/he can't very well cause enough trouble to warrant public execution.

zev_steinhardt
12-31-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
A man could divorce his wife just by saying to his wife, "I divorce you".

Actually, that's not quite true. Under Jewish law, a bill of divorce has to be written up (which is a fairly exacting document with strict rules). In addition, if a man divorced his wife, he had to pay her the sum stipulated in her kesubah (marriage contract), which (at a minimum of 100 shkalim) was not a small amount.

Zev Steinhardt

SisterCoyote
12-31-2003, 06:56 PM
Society's patriarchical bent probably had something to do with it.

But also keep in mind that it wasn't until very modern times that (most) women had enough spare time to go out and wander the world as Jesus did; between childbirth and raising and those things that needed doing around the home/farm/fields/what have you...

Biblical woman was probably pretty busy. Even Mary's sister reprimands her for "wasting time" talking to Jesus rather than caring for her chores.

[off-topic]What I want to know is why the families of the Apostles didn't protest that the men were failing their part of keeping up the chores. Maybe they did; it's been a while since I read the Gospels[/off-topic]

Reeder
12-31-2003, 08:50 PM
Something about chromosomes....

pothead
12-31-2003, 09:15 PM
Everyone knows God is a man and Jesus is the incarnation of Him. :rolleyes:

LeeG
12-31-2003, 09:40 PM
male answer syndrome. Guys probably need creation stories more than women. In the realm of birth women do and men talk. Expand that out to social structures men will be supporting the structure/religion. So who else would God chose to perpetuate stories than a man since man is the one who needs the stories. I guess a God who doesn't use words doesn't bother with male prophets.

clairobscur
12-31-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by monica
A possible explanation could be that men were more respected in that time, but being the child of God, you would think either sex would have had the ability to convince people of his/her cause and gain respect



Sure...As long as you're assuming that Jesus was actually the child of god. If you don't (and I definitely don't), this counter-argument has no value.

So, I'd personnally just stick with the easy explanation. The supposed founder of the christian religion was a man plainly because most probably no woman could have managed to get enough attention at these time and place to reach a similar religious status.

For the exact same reason, Moses and Mohammed "hapenned" to be men too...Random chance, really?

Milum
01-01-2004, 11:33 AM
Oh but Jesus was a woman.

Jesus was and is the personification of the female spirit that was born of the family unit and , through Jesus, moved into the greater community of man - World Culture.

Jesus brought but one message and that message was Love.

And up until recently the female of our kind embodied this sacred creed most perfectly.

pravnik
01-01-2004, 02:56 PM
Jesus may have indeed been a woman, or half woman.

I bewieve in earwy Jewish twadition Jesus is specuwated to have been the offspwing of a woman soldier named Pantera.

pravnik
01-01-2004, 02:57 PM
I mean, Pantewa.

Brutus
01-01-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by pravnik
Jesus may have indeed been a woman, or half woman.

I bewieve in earwy Jewish twadition Jesus is specuwated to have been the offspwing of a woman soldier named Pantera.

Err, that would be 'BBC speculation'. I too saw the special, and was singularily unimpressed, especially when they get all excited about finding the grave of a soldier with a name similiar to Pantera over in Germania. But that's another thread.

Johanna
01-01-2004, 04:33 PM
There was already a Great Debates thread on this same topic last year.

What if Jesus had been a girl? (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=195437)
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=195437

The Flying Dutchman
01-01-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by SisterCoyote

[off-topic]What I want to know is why the families of the Apostles didn't protest that the men were failing their part of keeping up the chores. Maybe they did; it's been a while since I read the Gospels[/off-topic]
Simple. There is no evidence that I can recall that the disciples were married. (I think you meant disciples not apostles). After all, even today, students choose to study at remote colleges to avoid maternally directed domestic chores.
I can';t remember ever having chores when I was a single man. When I was a boy my mother gave me chores. Now my wife gives me chores.

Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party
01-01-2004, 04:59 PM
If Jesus was a woman, we'd have threads asking why Jesus wasn't a man. Even God can't win.

amarinth
01-01-2004, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by grienspace
Simple. There is no evidence that I can recall that the disciples were married. (I think you meant disciples not apostles). After all, even today, students choose to study at remote colleges to avoid maternally directed domestic chores.If you're talking about 11 of the 12, they fit under both the title Apostle or Disciple.

Peter, at least, did have a mother-in-law, (Matthew 8) - which implies a marriage (whether the wife was still around is not clear.)

bizzwire
01-01-2004, 09:38 PM
Something about chromosomes....

I think Reeder's on to something here.

Being born of an earthly mother, with no biological father, Jesus would have lacked a Y-chromosome. Ergo, Jesus could not have been a man.

Rodrigo
01-02-2004, 12:33 AM
If He'd been a She, I would've posted a thread: Why wasn't Jesus a Guy?

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Maybe the Hebrew word for Messiah is a masculine noun? (Does Hebrew have gendered nouns?

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On a purely hypothetical level it would've been really interesting to have God send a female Messiah.

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Since Jesus is, according to Christians at least, the Son of God and God Himself, chromosomes would not be a real problem.

London_Calling
01-02-2004, 01:10 AM
Because we wouldn’t have the fish and loaves tale. Instead, it would have been a three-hour drama of going to the store, in all those crowds, where they didn’t have what she wanted so she had to go somewhere else where there happened to be some nice stuff on sale so picked up a few things and then bumped into an old friend who wanted an opinion on something she’d seen and then they both noticed a sale in this fancy clothes store and then forgot the original purpose so had to go back to the store but it was closed by then so . . . all those 5,00 died of starvation.

But the new slacks were a great deal!!!

Dostromin
01-02-2004, 01:15 AM
Obviously it is because men are better than women.

But in all seriousness, the Bible tells us that Jesus was the first born son of God, which, in my mind, would make it weird if he were born a female.

Dostromin
01-02-2004, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by Milum
Oh but Jesus was a woman.

Jesus was and is the personification of the female spirit that was born of the family unit and , through Jesus, moved into the greater community of man - World Culture.

Jesus brought but one message and that message was Love.

And up until recently the female of our kind embodied this sacred creed most perfectly.

That's almost as bad as saying that a man who enjoys cooking or decorating is a homosexual. Expressed personality traits do not determine gender.

hroeder
01-02-2004, 10:56 AM
First: all of the answer detailing how much more important men were in ancient times are just plain silly. Goddess. Lots of them. From just about every culture. Including Astarte, from the same region as Christ. (Greece was also so very very far away, and those Roman conquerors were just a totally Male God society! Venus my ass.)

More seriously: The story of Christ must also stand the test of certain symbolic constructs that are ancient in origin. Alif has always been masculine. Beth feminine. Even today Elizabeth is a woman's name.

Oh it's just so hard to deal with these things when my dictionary has no vowels.

Lord Ashtar
01-02-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by monica
Why wasn't Jesus born as a woman?

Um...because he was born a man?

Johanna
01-06-2004, 07:36 AM
Of course, for the Shakers the Second Coming of Christ was a woman, Mother Ann Lee of 18-century England. Her doctrine was that since Christ was a man the first time around, for completion he had to become female on the rebound. Unfortunately for the Shakers, Mother Ann Lee came up with the total celibacy requirement which made them all extinct as the dodo.

crookeddope
05-28-2016, 12:51 PM
The amount of ignorance in this post is overwhelming. There are no Biblical or Bible "times", we are always within the timeline of the Bible. Believe in it or not, we will always face the same reality come the time of our physical death.

Believe in the boogyman or the spaghetti monster, see if they save you from oblivion. Jesus was a man simply because men have things women do not have, and vise versa. However, what women have isn't governance or authority. Can you imagine a world run by women??? That would be a nightmare. Maybe that's what hell is, lol.

I digress, I strongly suggest you put away your biases and try to understand history, anthropology, philosophy,theology etc. etc. to be able to have the knowledge of deciphering the mess you've came up with all in your own head.

TriPolar
05-28-2016, 01:01 PM
Praise the Lord! This thread has risen from the dead!

Welcome to SDMB crookeddope. I can see from your post you will an interesting biblical time here.

aldiboronti
05-28-2016, 01:12 PM
She would have been a non-person to begin with, solely by virtue of her possessing the wrong set of gonads, and she would have been ignored at best, locked up at worst.



Jesus, even as a man, was ignored by the great majority of Jews, managing to gather only a small number of followers. As a woman he couldn't have done much worse. If it were not for Paul extending the mission to embrace Gentiles Jesus would have been long forgotten by now.

dtilque
05-28-2016, 01:25 PM
Mary was a virgin when she became pregnant with Jesus, right. So she must have reproduced by parthenogenesis. Parthenogenic offspring are always female. Which means that Jesus actually was female, but pretended to be male. Which means that Jesus was :gasp: transgender...

Kobal2
05-28-2016, 02:01 PM
Mary was a virgin when she became pregnant with Jesus, right. So she must have reproduced by parthenogenesis.

And that's why we call him "Jesus H Christ". H is for "haploid".

eschereal
05-28-2016, 02:13 PM
This thread deserves a proper comment from Tim Minchin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY1jSWy4Eck).

But, seriously, the eucharist? Where they drink the blood of Christ? Umm, eww. (Unless you are into that sort of thing.)

dtilque
05-28-2016, 02:20 PM
And that's why we call him "Jesus H Christ". H is for "haploid".

That's an old joke which Cecil references in this column (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/30/why-do-folks-say-jesus-h-christ).

But parthenogenic vertebrates have some kind of mechanism for restoring chromosomes to being diploid. Otherwise they would run out of chromosomes trying to make generation 3.

BTW, I'm not the first to suggest Jesus was transgender. There was a recent HuffPo blog (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suzanne-dewitt-hall/jesus-the-first-transgend_b_10006134.html) that made a similar argument. I was not aware of this at the time I made my post.

Jonathan Chance
05-28-2016, 02:26 PM
Enough.

Die zombie, die!