So what kind of wizard is Gandalf, anyway?

[Mister Rik]

Perhaps my memory has gone fuzzy, as it's been some years since I read the Lord of the Rings books. So my question is based mostly on what I've seen in the movies. I can recall Gandalf performing acts resembling spellcasting only three times:

1- blowing a "smoke ship" while enjoying some pipeweed with Frodo

2- making a glowing shield thingy while bellowing "You shall not pass!" at the balrog

3 - firing his 1920s-style death ray to drive the dragons away from the Rohan soldiers

Wait, make that 4 - telekinetic combat with Saruman in the first movie.

So it seems to me that Gandalf performs relatively little actual magic, considering his widespread fame as a powerful wizard. Have I missed something? He seems to possess an extraordinary ability to rally people to action, but other than that and the minor spellcasting listed above, what kind of wizard is he, exactly?

[Laughing Lagomorph]

One of my favorite bits of Gandalf magic from the books that was left out of the movies is when he causes the trees to burst into flame at the top of the hill outside the Moria gate when the Fellowship is fighting the Wolves in FOTR.

[gentle]

A few things come to mind.

Gandalf's fireworks must involve some magic; from Tolkien's description, the dragon effect is not something you could produce with ordinary (our-world) fireworks.

In Moria, when they are attacked, Gandalf tells the others to move on while he stays behind; this is one of the few places where Gandalf overtly uses RPG-style magic:'... I found myself suddenly faced by something that I have not met before. I could think of something to do but to try and put a shutting-spell on the door. I know many; but to do things of that kind rightly requires time, and even then the door can be broken by strength. ... Then something came into the chamber -- I felt it through the door, and the orcs themselves were afraid and fell silent. It laid hold of the iron ring, and then it perceived me and my spell. What it was I cannot guess, but I have never felt such a challenge. The counter-spell was terrible. It nearly broke me. For an instant the door left my control and began to open! I had to speak a word of Command. That proved too great a strain. The door burst in pieces. ...'Gandalf frequently uses his staff to produce artificial light. Magic.

Gandalf fights the Rightwraiths at Weathertop. Frodo and company sees a strange sort of fireworks display from afar, and later, at Rivendell, learns that this was Gandalf whipping up his magic powers. This was not included in the film, in particular because its order of events is quite different from the book.

Gandalf fights the Balrog. This in itself implies tremendous superhuman powers. The Balrog isn't just any old monster, it's one of the supernatural creations of Morgoth, who was Sauron's boss in the old days and a bona fide god, before he was vanquished and cast into the Void by his peers. Gandalf does kill off the Balrog, but his own body is killed in the process.

At the Ford of Bruinen outside Rivendell, it is Elrond who marshals the river into a great flood that washes away the Ringwraiths, but Gandalf adds:If I may say so, I added a few touches of my own: you may not have noticed, but some of the waves took the form of great white horses with shining white riders; and there were many rolling and grinding boulders.At Isengard, Gandalf breaks Saruman's staff by magical means:He raised his hand, and spoke slowly in a clear cold voice. 'Saruman, your staff is broken.' There was a crack, and the staff split asunder in Saruman's hand, and the head of it fell down at Gandalf's feet.As for your points, #1 and #4 are only in the films. I'm not sure about #3, the "glowing shield thingy" in Moria that you mention. Gandalf uses his staff to sunder the bridge. He doesn't create a "shield".

Gandalf certainly is a very powerful man, or rather, demigod; he is one of the Maiar, the order of angel-like beings to which Sauron and the other wizards also belong. In fact, Tolkien at one point suggested that if anyone could fight Sauron "mano a mano", Gandalf might do it, if in possession of the ring.

Gandalf is one of the Istari, a secret group of Maiar disguised as old men who have been sent to Middle Earth to help out with the Sauron business; Saruman is considered the head of this order, and the wizard Radagast also figures in the book. They are not permitted to wield the full extent of their powers while in Middle Earth, which explains Gandalf's somewhat minimalistic wizardy. I can dig up the references in The Silmarillion and/or in Unfinished Tales if you like.

[HDS]

I know someone can put this into better words than I can. If Gandalf used all his magic all the time, then the stories wouldn't be that interesting, would they? In The Hobbit, if Gandalf stayed with the dwarves and saved them from the spiders and the woodelves and killed the dragon and never let anyone else do anything, what kind of teacher would he be? He allowed Bilbo to find his courage and show others just how smart he was. He allowed Bard to become king. He gave help when needed but did not do everything for others, much like a parent with children. As Granny Weatherwax said, you can't help much with magic, but you can with skin.

As for your question, he is muy caliente. Rrrrrrowwwrrr.

[Crowbar of Irony +3]

Here's a good link about magic in Middle-Earth here: http://greenbooks.theonering.net/anwyn/files/060101.html

Below are some of my thoughts and opinons

In Tolkien's world, "wizard" come to encompass loremaster (knowledge of the past and history) and wonder-worker.

Magic in Middle-Earth is not as visual as magic in RPGs. One of example would be Saurman. Throughout the whole book he threw no balls of fire, or call down any lightning bolt at all. For the head of the Istari, he seems to do very little wonder. When the ents attacked, all he did was to set in motion some machinery.

Gandalf is the only one who can stand up to the Nazgul. Remember during the siege at Minas Tirith and Pelennor Field, that everyone fled in fear of the Nazgul, Gandalf is one of the few who dared to stand up to the Nazgul. It suggests some form of inner contest of will and power.

One notable passage about magic is when Sam said to Galadriel that he wished to see some elf-magic. When Galadriel brought the hobbits to the Mirror of Galadriel, she mentioned that it might be the elf-magic which Sam wanted to see, but she don't understand what he meant by 'magic', for it is also a term used to describe the dark arts practised by Sauron.

One of the greatest ability of Gandalf is to inspire hope and courage within the hearts of men, which is partly due to the Elven Ring he wore (I forgot which one it is, but it is the Elven Ring of Fire). This is noticable, at least during in the movie, how he is about to prevent his men from fleeing.

One of the important thing to remember is that Gandalf is "a servant of the secret fire, the flame of Arnor". He may be able to command the very element of fire and light without any secondary medium like 'magic'. But that's my own views.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Gandalf is an Ainur, a being who sprang fully formed from the mind of The Creator, and existed before the making of the world or even the creation of time. So was the Balrog. So was Morgoth, and Sauron, and Saruman. And Radaghast. All the Ainur actually took part in the creation of the world.

The Powers chose 5 of their own kind to become Istari, or "wizards" and sent them to middle-earth in the 3rd age to combat the evils of Sauron. But they were not to meet force with force. Their mission was to encourage and persuade the foes of Sauron to act.

So Gandalf was quite powerful, but while incarnated as a "wizard" he was constrained from revealing or using his true strength, except in very specific circumstances. His body was mortal and could suffer harm and death; he grew tired and hungry and lonely and all the baggage that went with having a mortal body.

After his physical body died after slaying the Balrog's body, he got an "upgrade" and also permission to act a bit more "forcefully" when necessary. He even commented after his return as Gandalf the White that no foe save Sauron could harm him now. But he still was constrained from challenging Sauron directly.

[Rubystreak]

Also, don't forget that Gandalf is wearing one of the three Elven Rings of Power, which were subject to the One Ring but not tainted by it. Narya, the Ring of Fire, gave Gandalf the ability to "rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill," which is why he can inspire people to great feats of courage and resistance in the face of seemingly-overwhelming evil. It may also help him make fireworks :)

[vibrotronica]

This article ("http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/hosted/ME/JeffBlack/FellowshipLowbyJB.html) mentions the classic D&D answer, which was that Gandalf iwas a 5th level magic user, and attempts to answer the question from a 3rd edition d20-based D&D perspective.

I could not find the original Bill Seligman Dragon Magazine article reproduced on the Web. I would be interested in reading it.

[vibrotronica]

fixed link (http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/hosted/ME/JeffBlack/FellowshipLowbyJB.html)

[smiling bandit]

The Balrog isn't just any old monster, it's one of the supernatural creations of Morgoth, who was Sauron's boss in the old days and a bona fide god, before he was vanquished and cast into the Void by his peers.

Its worse than that: The Balrog was not created by Sauron, but rather it was one of the Maiar much as Sauron. Less powerful than the Dark Lord, and much less skilled in Lore, but nevertheless one of Gandalf's own brothers. This was no monster - this was a demigod every bit Gandalf's equal.

[Cerowyn]

[nitpick]The balrogs* were not created by Morgoth, but rather maiar corrupted by him to evil.

*The question of the correct plural of 'balrog' is a debate all on its own.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Based on extant writings and previously employed conventions, the plural of Balrog may actually be "Balrogath" or "Balroeg" or even "Belryg".

In Quenya, the plural of Valaraukar has been posited to be such diverse words as "Malraugin", "Malarauke", and "Valarauki".

However, since JRRT himself frequently just wrote the word "Balrogs", I'm ok with that choice too. :D

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Continuing this hijack, here is an interesting essay (resplendent with cites) about Balrogs! http://tolkien.slimy.com/essays/TABA.html

[photopat]

I've always found it interesting that Tolkien created a race (the Ainur) who, when viewed from a Judeo/Christian perspective were prettly clearly equivalent to angels, but also took on the roles of gods similar to those in the Greek and Norse pantheons. Pretty clever mythological rationalization as well as very entertaining.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally posted by photopat
I've always found it interesting that Tolkien created a race (the Ainur) who, when viewed from a Judeo/Christian perspective were prettly clearly equivalent to angels, but also took on the roles of gods similar to those in the Greek and Norse pantheons. Pretty clever mythological rationalization as well as very entertaining.
Well, as I understand it, JRRT never meant to supplant the creations stories in the Bible, but rather to describe the creation from another (albeit mythical) perspective. He apparently envisioned the events detailed in Genesis, etc. as occuring "back east".

[Cerowyn]

Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
Continuing this hijack, here is an interesting essay (resplendent with cites) about Balrogs! http://tolkien.slimy.com/essays/TABA.html That was the essay I was thinking of when I mentioned a whole 'debate on its own.'

[Max Carnage]

Also shown as a Gandalf power: he can talk with the animals, from little hummingbird like critters to horses to big ass eagles.

So where does all this info about Gandalf being an angel-type some from? The Silmarllion?

[lawoot]

Originally posted by Cerowyn
The question of the correct plural of 'balrog' is a debate all on its own.


Balroogs? Balrees? Balrogses?

:)

[Ponder Stibbons]

Well, let's see. Gandalf does in a balrog and is handy with orbs (e.g., the palantir). I guess that counts him out as being a Washington Wizard. ;)

[Insomnomad]

This is just a minor nitpick, but Gandalf fought the wolves somewhere in the Misty Mountains in The Hobbit, not outside of Moria in FOTR.

[Johnny Q]

Maybe it would help to see Gandalf as an avatar of a greater being and constrained to an extent by the "rules of operation" of the form he has taken. Even were he not constrained by the will of his masters, the form itself would impose some limitations. For example, he may be perfectly able to toss fireballs, but aside from the edicts of the Valar forbidding this, his hands would quickly be burned to a crisp if he kept it up for any length of time.

Of course I may be barking up the wrong tree here....

[SpartanDC]

I noticed in the movie of Return Of The King (haven't read the book yet) that Gandalf is addressed more than once as "mithrandir," or however it's spelled. Anyone know what that means?

[artemis]

Mithrandir is Sindarin; it means "grey wanderer".

[rjung]

The OP reminds me of the Dork Tower comic strip (which I can't find online) where Igor, Ken, and Carson the Muskrat get to play the RPG version of The Lord of the Rings. Carson is given Gandalf to play, and the others are excited to have him on their side... until they learn that Gandalf's powers consist of (1) talking to animals, (2) casting fireworks, and (3) spoiling beer.

The players eventually make the best of the situation by using Gandalf as a portable battering ram/shield. :D

[Bryan Ekers]

I hear he is a wonderful wiz, if ever a wiz there was.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally posted by Insomnomad
This is just a minor nitpick, but Gandalf fought the wolves somewhere in the Misty Mountains in The Hobbit, not outside of Moria in FOTR.
Actually, Gandalf battles Wargs in both the Hobbit and FOTR outside Moria.

[jayjay]

Originally posted by Ponder Stibbons
Well, let's see. Gandalf does in a balrog and is handy with orbs (e.g., the palantir). I guess that counts him out as being a Washington Wizard. ;)

Hmmm...that would be the ballhog from Bored of the Rings. :D

[msmith537]

You know..it's funny when people say things like "ALL he can do is create some pyrotechnics" or "JUST move small objects" or "ONLY create light."

Try doing any of that stuff!! Even just a little!!

If a wizard could create 20 Megaton blasts from his wand or turn armies into salt, there wouldn't be a need of a story, would there? Gandalf, Suaron and Suruman would just hurl city-destroying fireballs at each other until everything was destroyed!



While I'm thinking about it, what GREAT POWER did the ring have? It made the average wearer an invisible crack-head which is not really that much of a strategic advantage against 200,000 troops. For Sauron, it seemed to let him stomp around like Gigantor ans conrol the Nazgul, but it didn't make him invulnurable or anything.

[SpartanDC]

Originally posted by msmith537
While I'm thinking about it, what GREAT POWER did the ring have? It made the average wearer an invisible crack-head which is not really that much of a strategic advantage against 200,000 troops. For Sauron, it seemed to let him stomp around like Gigantor ans conrol the Nazgul, but it didn't make him invulnurable or anything. Having only seen the movies, I get the impression that only someone who is extremely powerful can use the ring's powers. Otherwise, all it does is corrupt the wearer in an effort to get it back into Sauron's hands. In the hands of someone properly powerful enough (e.g. Gandalf, Sauron) the person could rule over any lesser being through fear and persuasion, especially by using the lesser rings as a conduit. Thankfully, that didn't work for the elves and, apparently, some of the men, who formed the Last Alliance.

But even in the hands of someone good, The One Ring can only destroy, and it would. And that is its power: unless it is destroyed, it will eventually, somehow, destroy everything else.

SPOILER

That is why the end is one of the best examples of literary irony out there: The only thing the ring permanently destroys is itself.

[Zcrysis]

In Moria Gandalf uses a word of Command to stop the Balrog opening the gate. What exactly does a word of Command entail and why did JRRT capitalise it?

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally posted by Zcrysis
In Moria Gandalf uses a word of Command to stop the Balrog opening the gate. What exactly does a word of Command entail and why did JRRT capitalise it?
Well, when you're part of the crew that built the world, a word of Command is basically telling matter/energy/reality how to behave. So Gandalf was a bit surprised to discover something else giving those kinds of orders too.

[NoClueBoy]

Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
Gandalf is an Ainur, a being who sprang fully formed from the mind of The Creator, and existed before the making of the world or even the creation of time. So was the Balrog. So was Morgoth, and Sauron, and Saruman. And Radaghast. All the Ainur actually took part in the creation of the world.



Excellent point that many part-time LOTR fans are not aware of.

I would like to point out, though, that not all Ainur are equal in strength and ability. The Valar (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/v/valar.html) arrr! more powerful than the Maiar (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/maiar.html). Also, there appear to be ranks among these types, some Valar and Maiar being more powerful and/or able than others of their ilk.

Some relevant stats for who is what:

Lords of the Valar

Manwë Súlimo
Ulmo
Aulë the Smith
Oromë
Mandos (Námo)
Lórien (Irmo)
Tulkas Astaldo

Queens of the Valar (Valier)

Varda Elentári
Yavanna Kementári
Nienna
Estë the Gentle
Vairë the Weaver
Vána the Ever-young
Nessa


The Fifteenth Vala? (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/v/valar.html)

Melkor (Morgoth)

It seems that, in the distant beginnings of the World, there were fifteen Valar; Melkor was certainly the most powerful of the all the spirits that descended into Arda, and was said to have been the 'brother' of Manwë. However, due to his corrupt nature, he was apparently expelled from the order. We are told in the Valaquenta that he is "...counted no longer among the Valar...", which strongly suggests that at one point he had been.

Some Maiar of the Thrid Age in Middle Earth (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/maiar.html)

Saruman
Sauron (originally of Aulë's people)
Olórin (Gandalf)

[Max Carnage]

Again I ask...where does all of this stuff NOT mentioned in the LotR trilogy come from? And is it JRRT endorsed?

[jayjay]

Mostly from the Silmarillion. I imagine some comes from the volumes of HOMES (History of Middle-Earth), which consists of 12 volumes at last publication.

[NoClueBoy]

Originally posted by Max Carnage
Again I ask...where does all of this stuff NOT mentioned in the LotR trilogy come from? And is it JRRT endorsed?

Click on the links for the Encyclopeadia of Arda.

Books include Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The Hobbit, and some published letters/diaries/worksheets/etc...

[NoClueBoy]

A list of books available (http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/features/lordoftheringstrilogy/historyofme.shtml)


(a nit on myself: Lost tales, not Unfinished! :smack: )

[Laughing Lagomorph]

Originally posted by Insomnomad
This is just a minor nitpick, but Gandalf fought the wolves somewhere in the Misty Mountains in The Hobbit, not outside of Moria in FOTR.

My advice to you is to bring your copy of Fellowship of the Ring back to the store you got it and exchange it for a new copy because it seems to be missing some pages. Specifically, at the beginning of the chapter "A Journey in the Dark" it describes an attack on the Fellowship by a pack of Wargs (wolves) after their attempt on Redhorn Gate but before they enter Moria. It is on pages 311 and 312 of my Houghton Mifflin 2nd edition (hardcover). The specific passage I had in mind was this one:

"Stooping like a cloud, (Gandalf) lifted a burning branch and strode to meet the wolves. They gave back before him. High in the air he tossed the blazing brand. It flared with a sudden white radiance like lightning; and his voice rolled like thunder.
'Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurhoth!' he cried.

There was a roar and a crackle, and the tree above him burst into a leaf and bloom of blinding flame. The fire leapt from tree-top to tree-top. The whole hill was crowned with a dazzling light..."

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Get a clue, noclueboy! Trust in yourself!! You were right the first time. JRRT (actually son CJRT) gave us Unfinished Tales and The Book of Lost Tales Volumes I & II!

And while the Encyclopedia of Arda is a very useful website, it is not without its flaws. Lots of stuff that went on in HOMES still hasn't found its way into that site.

Try Annals of Arda (http://www.annalsofarda.dk/) sometime. Interesting stuff, if a bit tougher to navigate.

[NoClueBoy]

Silly me. It's sitting right there on my bookshelf, too. But, I trusted a web site instead.

As an excuse: I am world weary, and I long to see again the shores of the undying lands...

[DesertDog]

Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph
"Stooping like a cloud, (Gandalf) lifted a burning branch and strode to meet the wolves. They gave back before him. High in the air he tossed the blazing brand. It flared with a sudden white radiance like lightning; and his voice rolled like thunder.
'Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurhoth!' he cried.

There was a roar and a crackle, and the tree above him burst into a leaf and bloom of blinding flame. The fire leapt from tree-top to tree-top. The whole hill was crowned with a dazzling light..." It was after they had turned back from Caradhras, and before entering the west gate of Moria. Sam comments, "Wolves won't get him [Gandalf]. That was an eye-opener, and no mistake! Nearly singed the hair off my head!"

The three screenwriters did like to take snippets of dialogue and move them around to suit the movie version.

DD

[Crowbar of Irony +3]

Originally posted by Max Carnage
Also shown as a Gandalf power: he can talk with the animals, from little hummingbird like critters to horses to big ass eagles.

So where does all this info about Gandalf being an angel-type some from? The Silmarllion?

In the Hobbit, and LoTR, the Eagles actually possess power of speech.

[Crowbar of Irony +3]

Originally posted by Max Carnage
Again I ask...where does all of this stuff NOT mentioned in the LotR trilogy come from? And is it JRRT endorsed?

You may want to check out the 12-books set of J.R.R Tolkiens and his son Christopher Tolkiens' writings about Middle-Earth. The Anuir and the nature of the wizards are described, I think, in The Books of Lost Tales, 1 and 2.

[levdrakon]

I'm sure Gandalf is very powerful and his powers seem subtle, but I too think his portrayal in the movie was pretty wussy. A 5 year old with a hand held mirror could shine some light in the dragon's eyes & blind them. That's about all he did in the whole movie. Tony Robbins is a motivational speaker, but he ain't no wizard.

I love Ian McClellen, and would watch him in anything, but Gandalf was kind of a wuss.

[SoulFrost]

Gandalf, Suaron and Suruman would just hurl city-destroying fireballs at each other until everything was destroyed!

Actually, if history is any guide, they'd have sunk everything beneath the ocean... which is one of the main reasons that their powers in ME were limited.

-David

[well he's back]

Sorry, levdrakon, but no way was Gandalf a wuss. Didn't you see that he was in charge of the defense of Minas Tirith until the Corsair ships showed up? That he engaged in hand-to-hand (well, staff-to-blade) combat? That he inspired the troops? etc. What would you have had him do?

[Dewey Cheatem Undhow]

Originally posted by levdrakon
Tony Robbins is a motivational speaker, but he ain't no wizard.Well, he did make Jack Black see fat chicks as Gwyneth Paltrow....

[don't ask]

Soon he'll be a Wizard of Oz (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8293272%5E16947,00.html).

[smiling bandit]

But even in the hands of someone good, The One Ring can only destroy, and it would. And that is its power: unless it is destroyed, it will eventually, somehow, destroy everything else.

No, actually not. The power of the Ring lay not in destruction, but in control. In the hands of a willing user, the Ring could grant the power to control others. With it, there were few indeed who could resist Sauron in his presence. With it, one could control the whole of the world, albeit with a mastery slowly gained.

[levdrakon]

Originally posted by well he's back
Sorry, levdrakon, but no way was Gandalf a wuss. Didn't you see that he was in charge of the defense of Minas Tirith until the Corsair ships showed up? That he engaged in hand-to-hand (well, staff-to-blade) combat? That he inspired the troops? etc. What would you have had him do?

I realized right after I posted that "wuss" was the wrong word, but too late to edit. You're right, he was no wuss, and I like that the wizard can duke it out with a sword with the best of them. I don't like wizards that have to hide behind all their magic.

So while I liked seeing Gandalf lead the charge into combat, and would like seeing him lop a few heads off, I would also have liked it if there had been some magically enhanced bad guy that Gandalf alone had to deal with. With lots of wizardly lights & mystical energy blasts and such. That's what the little kid in me wanted to see.

[Laughing Lagomorph]

Originally posted by DesertDog
It was after they had turned back from Caradhras, and before entering the west gate of Moria. ...



Yes, I don't know why I left that factoid out of my post you quoted...

[HDS]

I would also have liked it if there had been some magically enhanced bad guy that Gandalf alone had to deal with.

Not to be rude, but like the Balrog?

[levdrakon]

Originally posted by HDS
Not to be rude, but like the Balrog?

Balrog was mentioned in the OP. By "rude," did you mean to imply I didn't read the OP? That's not rude. Just incorrect.

There was no Balrog in the latest movie, or decent Balrog equivalent IMO. The OP's opinion is based mainly on the movies and I agree Gandalf didn't come across as that impressive a wizard, particularly in the latest movie. He was an impressive character, but I think that's more Ian McClellan doing a fine ass job of acting, and just being him.

I loved the Balrog scene in the other movie. But one, or two, or three good wizard scenes spread across the first two movies does not a satisfyingly impressive display of wizardry make, to me just having seen the third movie.

[Horseflesh]

I thought Gandalf made a fine Pinball Wizard...

He's got such a supple wrist
How do you think he does it?
I don't know
What makes him so good?

[Crowbar of Irony +3]

But one, or two, or three good wizard scenes spread across the first two movies does not a satisfyingly impressive display of wizardry make, to me just having seen the third movie


That may be because Lord of the Rings is not about flashy display of wizardry.

There was one more display of Gandalf's power when Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli first met Gandalf the White for the first time. First, at Gandalf's words "Shall I come up, or would you come down" the three companions did not have the will to launch any pre-emptive strike against Gandalf, whom they believe is Saurman.

Second, when the three did decide to attack, Legolas' arrows disappeared in a flash of flame (not deflected, as in the movie), Glimi's arms did not obey him and Anduril burst into flame.

Well, with that said, J.R.R Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings before D+D came along to grace fantasy worlds with obiligatory fireballs and lightning bolts, and Tolkien may understand the less is more rule for special effects long before computer graphics make it big.

More than just a person of special effects though, Gandalf is an icon for knowledge (who alone knows the layout of Moria after so many years), guidiance, inspiration and foresight. Gandalf apparently has some gift of prophecy, being able to discern when to make off with Shadowfax and when not to.

[Priam]

The way magic is handled today has always been a factor I could never understand in D&D, but Tolkien seemed to adjust quite well to what the reality for a good wizard would be: if you have the power to change the world, 90% of what you do would be invisible to the untrained eye. Yes you could in theory make the earth shatter, but why? It would cause so much damage afterwards. If you're a good wizard, you're going to choose the less destructive route of subtle tweaks and adjustments instead of huge friggin lightning bolts for the most part. The fire in the hearts of men, the quietly sealed door, the simple ray of light.

[HDS]

I also thought it made the story that much more powerful that a shield maiden could kill the Witch King. If Gandalf did it instead it would be a little too much wizard ex machina.

[smiling bandit]

There was no Balrog in the latest movie, or decent Balrog equivalent IMO. The OP's opinion is based mainly on the movies and I agree Gandalf didn't come across as that impressive a wizard, particularly in the latest movie.

In the books, Gandalf does a yeoman's job of holding off despair among the Gondorians. Sadly, the movie does not really do full justice to Denethor or Gondor in the seige.

If Gandalf did it instead it would be a little too much wizard ex machina.

Gandalf probably could have done it, but in this case he had serious trouble bringing the sum'biznatch to ground. Gandalf, for all his power, couldn't hit him in the air.

[levdrakon]

I thought the way the Witch King bought it was a bit silly, actually. I mean, I'm ok with it. But as soon as I saw warrior princess marching off to battle and Witch King kept going on about "no man can kill me" I was thinking, "uh-oh, I see where this is going. Are they really going to do what it looks like they're going to do?"

At first when he said "no man can kill me" I was thinking, "no human can kill me," which is fine, 'cause there're plenty of other species running around that could do the job, and maybe Gandalf himself isn't technically a "man," i.e. human. Plus he specifically said he was gonna personally give Gandalf a good spanking. I figured that was a good set up for a nice Gandalf vs. Witch-guy pyrotechnics battle while the armies were doing their thing.

Throughout the movies when they would refer to "man" and "men" it seemed they were referring to humans, as opposed to dwarves, elves, tree-guys, etc. Then at the end there what they meant was males of any species can't kill me.

I wonder how this was handled in other languages. Were they able to keep that ambiguity between male, and mankind? Or was it obvious earlier on that a woman was going to have to kill him?