Dick Cheney's Bloodlust

[Chefguy]

Comes now the mighty hunter. (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03343/249105.stm) I had no idea that you were such a sportsman, Dick. I feel I can call you Dick, since I now feel I have your true measure.

So you flew to PA on AF2 and transferred to a Hummer with your fave shotgun, and my how cute and manly that all is, and drove off to a chicken-oops-pheasant ranch for some "hunting", where they released 500...yes, that's right...five hundred overstuffed, domesticated, barely-able-to-fly ring-necked pheasants for you and nine other "sportsmen" to "hunt".

Safely ensconced in your blind, with a pleasant pheasant buzz-on, I'm sure, you and your pals bagged 417 birds. Four hundred and seventeen. You, Dick, personally downed 70 of these wiley creatures. Did you supersize your magazine or were the birds so fat and unsuspecting and completely confused to be suddenly brutally assaulted after a life of feeding and fucking and sleeping that you were able to reload at your leisure? Let's see, five in the tube means you reloaded 14 times, assuming that you are a crack shot and hit one bird per round. Fourteen times. What a man. Why didn't you just visit Foster Farms and have a go at the chicken coops?

Tell me, Dick, did it satisfy your bloodlust for the time being? Was it enough gore and slaughter and death or should we be looking forward to the bombing of another 3rd world country in our immediate future? My disdain for you and what you stand for knows no limits. Dick. It's just such and appropriate name for you.

[Metacom]

Is this a parody, or are you really worked up over some birds getting shot? If the latter, I have a hard time getting worked up over it: I don't think entertainment is that worse a use for a bird'ss life then McNuggets.

Now if Cheney was shooting adorable puppies flung from catapaults, well now THEN I'd be pissed, I would!

[Chefguy]

::slap:: ::slap:: Okay, try to pay attention here. It's not about the birds, okay (although I object to this sort of 'ranching' on principle)? It's about brutality and mindless bloodletting and excess. It's a window into the dark pit that is Cheney's soul.

[Master Wang-Ka]

::slap:: ::slap:: Okay, try to pay attention here. It's not about the birds, okay (although I object to this sort of 'ranching' on principle)? It's about brutality and mindless bloodletting and excess. It's a window into the dark pit that is Cheney's soul.

Point taken. I am inclined to wonder what kind of "hunter" makes a point of releasing caged birds solely so he can shoot them.

I understand fishermen do things like this, but it's hardly the same sort of thing. The fish doesn't exactly HAVE to cruise onto your hook.

My next question: Did Cheney or anyone EAT the birds, or were they simply left to rot?

[FisherQueen]

I come from a long line of hunters. Just about everyone in my family hunts. I ate venison from my childhood, and my favorite toy was a rabbit-tail tied to a bit of string. I have no problem with hunting.

Of all those hunters in my family, I only know of one who EVER kills more than he will eat. Grandpa takes two deer a year, and gives the meat to the poor widows in his church. Yes, really.

70 pheasants isn't hunting, it's slaughter just for the sake of killing. It's icky. Unless, of course, Cheney is planning to give the meat of 68 pheasants to the poor widows of the Republican Party.

[Miller]

My initial reaction to the OP was a lot like Metacom's, but... Jesus, four-hundred and seventeen pheasants? What the fuck? Where's the fun in that sort of slaughter, unless the slaughter itself is what's getting your rocks off? That is seriously disturbing. I'd love to hear a rationale for this, because right now I'm seriously skeeved out by our VP.

More than usual, I mean.

[An Arky]

Jesus. I got no beef against bagging a few birds (heh, not what you think UKers) for the table and freezer, but this whole hunting country club concept is disturbing. A real man doesn't do that shit.

[dropzone]

Reminds me of a film I saw of Kaiser Wilhelm "hunting" penned deer. What a sportsman! :rolleyes:

[Homebrew]

According to Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), they gave the birds they didn't keep for themselves to a local food bank. (http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20031215/013366.html)

Sen. Cornyn said the hunting was was "kind of like how Tyson's and Pilgrim's Pride and other people do it. I must tell you that people don't necessarily hunt the same way in Texas that they hunt in Ligonier, Penn., but it was enjoyable.

[Aldebaran]

You people are far too hard on this innocent hunter.

Most probably he merely sought the illusion that he was finally in person in Iraq finishing off some Iraqis.


Salaam. A

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

You people are far too hard on this innocent hunter.

Most probably he merely sought the illusion that he was finally in person in Iraq finishing off some Iraqis. Naw, more likely he was visualizing the pheasants as liberals, Democrats, antiwar protestors -- you know, evil unpatriotic scum like that. POW! "Take that, Howard Dean!" POWPOW -- "Gotcha, Ted Kennedy, moveon.org!!" POWPOWPOWPOWPOW -- "Refuse to back our play, France? You're fried now, hahahaha!!!"

[Colibri]

I have nothing against hunting, but that ain't hunting. That's just killing for the sake of killing.

I had a friend who used to have a summer job on a chicken farm. He said one night he had to wring the necks of 30,000 chickens. He said it was the worst job he ever had.

Sounds like it might have been Cheney's dream vacation.

[E72521]

I don't think even Ted Nugent would be impressed. But then again, maybe he would.

I can hear it now, Oh Father, are you going to the food bank tonight? I would just love some more government cheese and government pheasent. Oh, and Father, do try to get one that doesn't have too much bird shot left in it. You know how it constipates Mother so.

[masonite]

Is anybody else thinking of Danny, Champion of the World and that nasty Squire with the silver Rolls Royce?

[schplebordnik]

I have nothing against hunting, but that ain't hunting. That's just killing for the sake of killing.

How about hunting for the sake of winning a state political caucus:
http://www.firefightersforkerry.com/campaign/photo_gallery3_page1.php

[Grumple Grommit]

Cheney was most likely imagining that the pheasants were Iraqi children.

[Grumple Grommit]

Oops, didn't realize Aldabran beat me to it.

[elucidator]

I seem to have arrived at a very odd sort of centrism. The last thing in the world I want to see is a gay men's porno marathon. The second to the last thing would be a window into Dick Cheney's soul.

On the other hand....Iraqi children? Dude.

[FabioClone]

If the birds were smart, they would have realized they had the hunters seriously outnumbered. They would have taken casualties, sure, but in the end sheer numbers can triumph over superior size and technology. No politician can withstand that many chickens.

I would like to see Cheney's face when this pulsating mass of feathers and fury begins rushing towards him on a thousand skinny legs.

[Brutus]

...I would like to see Cheney's face when this pulsating mass of feathers and fury begins rushing towards him on a thousand skinny legs.

What the hell would Cheney be doing at a anti-globalization protest?

[Doomtrain]

If the birds were smart, they would have realized they had the hunters seriously outnumbered. They would have taken casualties, sure, but in the end sheer numbers can triumph over superior size and technology. No politician can withstand that many chickens.

If Cheney is a true politician, he'd convince them that he was on their side, that they were surrounded by seagulls who just wanted to take their tax dollars (err, birdseed) and give it to welfare queens (err, vultures), and that these seagulls were undermining the very nature of Pheasant Society and soon he'd be leading the whole band.

[Toddly]

Give the man a break. He's busy and he bought all that ammo.

[Doomtrain]

If the birds were smart, they would have realized they had the hunters seriously outnumbered. They would have taken casualties, sure, but in the end sheer numbers can triumph over superior size and technology. No politician can withstand that many chickens.

If Cheney is a true politician, he'd convince them that he was on their side, that they were surrounded by seagulls who just wanted to take their tax dollars (err, birdseed) and give it to welfare queens (err, vultures), and that these seagulls were undermining the very nature of Pheasant Society, but he'd set things right, by Jaysus, and soon he'd be leading the whole band.

[rjung]

The only thing about the OP that surprises me is the revelation that hunting wild pheasant is too difficult for the veep.

(Not that I claim to be able to do any better, but I don't call myself a "hunter" and go on taxpayer-sponsored "hunting" trips against fattened, domesticated birds...)

[Liberal]

What sort of fighting chance do you think the hordes of cows, chickens, turkeys, and pigs have when they're slaughtered for your hamburgers, Sunday dinners, and breakfasts? They gave the damn birds to a food bank. You'd think liberals could appreciate poor people having the opportunity to eat a delicacy.

[Ferrous]

What sort of fighting chance do you think the hordes of cows, chickens, turkeys, and pigs have when they're slaughtered for your hamburgers, Sunday dinners, and breakfasts? They gave the damn birds to a food bank. You'd think liberals could appreciate poor people having the opportunity to eat a delicacy.
That would be a good point if anybody in the thread was objecting to the birds not having a "fighting chance." They're not, though. They're just saying that the kind of guy who would engage in this kind of wholesale slaughter for fun (as opposed to people who do it for a living) is sort of creepy.

But hey, any excuse to bash "liberals", right?

[Liberal]

Ferrous

Excuse my ass. The OP said that the birds were overstuffed and barely able to fly. That, to me, implies that they didn't have a fighting chance. And then there began a chorus about the slaughtering. You were the first to raise the issue about amateur versus professional, which is silly since the employees might themselves be hunters and/or enjoy their job slaughtering domesticated critters.

[FabioClone]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Excuse my ass.

Your ass is excused.

Well at least we can all agree that Cheney thirsts for blood, right?

Personally, I picture him dancing naked through a pile of pheasant corpses while "Happy Together" by the Turtles plays and we fade to black.

[Liberal]

Well at least we can all agree that Cheney thirsts for blood, right?Um, sure. He's not a vegetarian.

[Marley23]

The OP said that the birds were overstuffed and barely able to fly. That, to me, implies that they didn't have a fighting chance.
Ferrous is right that this wasn't the point, but they probably didn't. If they had a fighting chance, would Cheney have been able to shoot more than 70 of them?

The article says this wasn't his first time doing this. I'm wondering how far away we are from a reenactment of the scene in History of the World Pt. I where Louis XIV is shooting peasants. ;)

[Liberal]

Well, then, what the heck IS the point? Is all this some sort of slippery slope speculation about today pheasants, tomorrow peasants? A hunter got together with some other hunters at a hunting lodge and they hunted. Bunch of birds got shot. Talk about any excuse... Criminey.

[FabioClone]

I thought the point was to laugh about what a lame "hunter" Cheney is.

Or maybe we were supposed to be outraged.

Or perhaps we were to remember those pheasants who gave their lives for our county.


We're all going to take away our own things from this thread. Lib and Brutus are going to see a liberal circle-jerk. Aldebaran is going to dream of a giant neon sign that says "No blood for oil!". Metacom is going to go think up new and horrible ways to kill puppies.

Me? I've got a great vision of Vice President Cheney as Dracula. And that's enough for me.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

This was on the local news at the time (and I am sure that the local hunters love that Sen. Cornhole equated their hunting behavior with Cheney's). One thing I noticed here that I did not before was that Cheney shot 70 pheasants and an "unknown number of ducks." First, I guess the 70 were just simply not enough. Secondly, how did they keep track of 70 pheasants and not have an idea about the number of ducks? Could it be that ducks are a little faster?

But seriously, Libertarian, when was the last time you shot 70 birds in the late morning? You try to equate this with hunting - do you really think this is typical behavior of hunters? And I will pass your well wishes on to the poor, I am sure they appreciate the rare treat that the VP went out simply to provide for them. Perhaps he could see his way to giving overtime pay back. You know, give a man a pheasant, and all that...

[BobLibDem]

This wasn't hunting, it was target practice. For his next trick, they'll fill a barrel full of fish and see if he can shoot them. I don't hunt, but I'd like to hear from those that practice legitimate pheasant hunting on what a good day of pheasant hunting would be. I'm guessing one bird is what most would expect to get. Of course those wouldn't be farm fattened birds released in shooting range, either. All things considered, this doesn't lower my opinion of Cheney, not that that would be possible.

[Fear Itself]

A hunter got together with some other hunters at a hunting lodge and they hunted. I know hunters; hunters are my friends. Dick Cheney is no hunter, and by no stretch of the imagination would any of my hunter friends consider what Cheney & friends engaged in hunting. Perhaps that is what you are accustomed to Lib, but most hunters would find it unsportsmanlike.

[Liberal]

Oh, I don't know. Tally-ho and all that.

[BF]

Don't have a dog in this fight, but to clear up a couple of things.


At no point in the article does it say "farm-fattened", "bloated", etc. It says farm-raised.
Most states, especially those in migratory flyways, require a plug in the magazine of the shotgun, therefore only allowing the shooter 3 shots without reloading.
Although it seems a lot, 417 birds, of which a significant amount were given to food banks, is really a drop in the bucket. None of the birds, unless lost, were wasted.
Most states that have a pheasant season limit the harvest to three birds per hunter per day. (The article indicated that private hunts on game preserves there is no limit)
By comparison, dove hunting in Argentina, Venezuela, and Uruguay; it's not unusual for one shooter to down 500 birds a day, all of which go to feed the local populace.

[dropzone]

Oh, I don't know. Tally-ho and all that.Actually, Lib, you hit the nail on the head with that one, though completely by accident. The fox hunting of "Tally-Ho!" is an upper-crust blood "sport" and isn't considered "hunting" by REAL hunters any more than Mr Cheney's live-bird skeet shoot is.

[El_Kabong]

From the linked article:

Cheney shot more than 70 ringneck pheasants and an unknown number of mallard ducks. The birds were plucked and vacuum-packed in time for Cheney's afternoon flight to Washington, D.C.

Poor guy probably went back to D.C. with a vague feeling of melancholia and disappointment. After all, sometime around the tenth pheasant or so, didn't it get kind of tedious to raise the shotgun again? BLAM! (flop) Yawnnn....

And who did the plucking and packing? Surely not the Veep and his buddies. Can't you people see? This administration is creating jobs! :D

[The Long Road]

Being a hunter(or former hunter as I have not gone in a few years) and having no real opinion on Cheney, I agree with the "that isn't hunting" sentiment. That isn't hunting, it's killing birds without having to bother with all the other tedious aspects of hunting. Reminds me of the documentary on HBO where a father and son went to a hunting farm to hunt a goat or something similar. The workers basically kept pushing the thing toward the two guys so they could keep shooting it with arrows from about 15 feet.

While the end result is no different than a slaughterhouse, it does matter that the person is doing this for fun and not food or employment. Besides, blasting birds all morning would tend to hurt like a bitch as shotguns tend to have a heavy kick. That makes me think he really enjoyed the killing.

[lieu]

If Cheney had brought half the tunnel visioned zeal to the hunt as has been demonstrated here, there'd be nary a pheasant or duck left in PA. I might not hunt in the same manner, but then my schedule and opportunities differ more than a little from his. Were this to be anyone else, nobody would give a partisan'd damn.

And Aldebaran and Grumple Grommit, I can't help but picture you two sitting through a lot of green lights while the traffic piles up behind you. "Blasting Iraqi children"? Get lucid.

[Liberal]

Actually, Lib, you hit the nail on the head with that one, though completely by accident. The fox hunting of "Tally-Ho!" is an upper-crust blood "sport" and isn't considered "hunting" by REAL hunters any more than Mr Cheney's live-bird skeet shoot is.It wasn't an accident. And everyone knows that No True Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

[dropzone]

Then I apologize for my affrontry, sir.

[UncleBeer]

Okay. Time for someone who actually knows something about this form of hunting to chime in. I've participated in hunts at private clubs where pheasants are hatched and raised for just this purpose. It would seem that the format the Cheney party engaged might be a little bit different than my experience, but I think my observations are still valid.

When I did this kind of thing, and it's been six or more years since I have, we'd tell the club manager how many birds we wanted released. They'd net the things (both cocks and hens - it is illegal to shoot hens in the wild) out of their pens and take them to a large field (12 to 25 acres) and release them at random points. After that was done, we'd head for the field with our guide and his dog(s). From that point, the hunt was little different than hunting in the wild. Except that we knew for sure that there were indeed pheasants in this particular field. That's not always the case in a wild hunt. The birds released were in no physical way different from any that you'd encounter in the wild; they're of the same size range and have the same flight, running and camoflauge abilities. They are not "overstuffed and barely able to fly." They have pretty much the same chance that birds in the wild have. Except that most of those surviving the hunt will die anyway within a week. Cage raised pheasants don't have the fear fo predators, or the feeding instincts, that wild birds have. The guides have always told me that they won't last long on their own; they quickly become part of the food chain.

I'll also note that hunting in this manner is ungodly expensive. The fees including the bird charge, the guide and dog fees, and the cleaning were generally in the $25 to $30 per bird range - plus tip for the guide; I expect it's more than that now. When I did this we generally had only 4 birds per hunter released and they'd give us about 3 or 4 hours to hunt. If you didn't bag your birds in that period, too bad; they're gone but you paid for 'em anyway.

I dunno exactly what Cheney's hunt was like, but I doubt it was too much different than my experiences - with the exception of quantity. I hunted this way at several different clubs and it's always the same, except for insignificant details. That's why I expect Cheney's hunt was similar.

Now, granted, 500 birds is a huge number, but as noted in the linked articles, it's all being used for food (well, the 80% of 'em that got shot; the others are gonna starve to death and become part of the food chain anyway), so I don't see what the gripe is. I dunno what to make of the accusations of bloodlust. 500 birds seems excessive to me for a morning of sport, but what do I know? I'm not gonna make any value judgments over the man's hobby. Anyway, you guys seem more upset about Cheney's participation in this thing than any of the other nine guys, so I'm guessing it more partisan crap.

This quote is from the article linked by Homebrew:
These birds were just planted right in front of this group of hunters. It was a bloodbath and it was a blaze of shotgun fire," said senior vice president [of The Humane Society] Wayne Pacelle.
This is not in any way descriptive of the hunts like this in which I have participated. I'm not sure what Mr. Pacelle knows about Cheney's particular hunt that is different than my experience, but my bet is his remarks are made from ignorance and he has no idea what actually transpired at Rolling Rock.

[Ferrous]

Ferrous

Excuse my ass.
Heh. FabioClone beat me to it.
The OP said that the birds were overstuffed and barely able to fly. That, to me, implies that they didn't have a fighting chance.
Yes, and the OP also said, implicitly in his first post and explicitly in his second, that the birds themselves were not the point. I guess you missed that part.
And then there began a chorus about the slaughtering. You were the first to raise the issue about amateur versus professional, which is silly since the employees might themselves be hunters and/or enjoy their job slaughtering domesticated critters.
That's right, I brought it up in response to your objection regarding animals killed in slaughterhouses and such. Which was irrelevant, bacause no one, as far as I can tell, was saying "Ooh, the poor birdies!" They're asking what kind of sicko gets his rocks off killing a truckload of birds, simply for the sake of killing them.

And frankly, I have no idea what percentage of slaughterhouse employees really love their job, and enjoy killing animals in their tens of thousands. I doubt it's a large percentage, but I'm sure there are some---and I'd be a bit creeped out by them as well.

Uncle Beer,
Anyway, you guys seem more upset about Cheney's participation in this thing than any of the other nine guys, so I'm guessing it more partisan crap.
I can't speak for any one else, but I think the other nine guys are a bit weird as well. But they're not VP. A psychopath with power is a lot more worrisome than one without. But I'd feel essentially the same way if it were, say, John Kerry doing the "hunting." (And yes, I know "psychopath" is a bit OTT, but I've already used "creepy","weird" and "sicko", and I'm running low on synonyms here.)

[Liberal]

Ferrous

I respect you a great deal, but honestly — creepy, weird, sicko, psychopath. All that for this? You've left nothing credibility-wise when you decide to attack something really bad. The next person you describe as psycho might just be, for all I know, someone who eats more peanuts than you do.

[Ferrous]

Ferrous

I respect you a great deal, but honestly — creepy, weird, sicko, psychopath. All that for this? You've left nothing credibility-wise when you decide to attack something really bad. The next person you describe as psycho might just be, for all I know, someone who eats more peanuts than you do.
Well, I did admit that the "psychopath" part was pushing it. It is creepy though, IMO. But really, I'm not that upset over this. I only posted because I found your animal-rights strawman irritating.

Seriously though, don't you find it a little off-putting that someone would find this entertaining? Shooting 70 pheasants and an undisclosed number of ducks in one day? Does that really seem like a normal, healthy activity? I've got no problem with hunting, but in this case it seems that a difference in degree becomes a difference in kind.

And don't tell me the fact that he gave the birds to a food bank makes any difference. If Cheney was concerned with feeding the poor, I can think of a couple of ways the Vice President of the United States (not to mention a millionaire) could make a much bigger difference than that.

Anyway, you're right that it isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. Just the thing that caught my attention at the time. ("Ooh, shiny...")

[dropzone]

They have pretty much the same chance that birds in the wild have. Except that most of those surviving the hunt will die anyway within a week. Cage raised pheasants don't have the fear fo predators, or the feeding instincts, that wild birds have. The guides have always told me that they won't last long on their own; they quickly become part of the food chain.So these birds have not developed the wiliness and intelligence that allowed their completely wild brothers to survive to adulthood? As your experience showed, three or four in a morning, even of these limited birds, is good hunting. Cheney shot seventy birds between, say, 8:00AM and noon, or one every three and a half minutes, and his party was bagging them at a rate of one every 35 seconds. It sounds like the birds were tripping over each other in the field and it still sounds like Cheney et al were just a few steps removed from plugging a barnyard full of chickens.

[ElvisL1ves]

One can shrug off the existence of a few sickos who aren't actually shooting people, but there are apparently enough around to support this operation as a going business. That worries me almost as much as one of them being in a decisionmaking role about many people's lives.

Unc, you should know that this selective claim not to be making value judgments is itself a value judgment. And try to read the damn link before "explaining" it next time, willya?

[Ale]

By comparison, dove hunting in Argentina, Venezuela, and Uruguay; it's not unusual for one shooter to down 500 birds a day, all of which go to feed the local populace.

Not that I don´t belive you; but being the case that I live here and I´ve never heard of such hunting extravaganzas I´d appreciate a cite.
Besides, a pigeon weights what? 300/400 grams? multiplied by 500 that is up to 150/200 kilograms of dead birds on a sack; I can´t picture a hunter hauling that around.

[Ferrous]

One can shrug off the existence of a few sickos who aren't actually shooting people, but there are apparently enough around to support this operation as a going business. That worries me almost as much as one of them being in a decisionmaking role about many people's lives.One can hope that most of their clients are hunters like Uncle Beer, guys who buy maybe four or so birds at a time. Probably that sort of wholesale kill-fest is the exception, rather than the rule. I hope.

...

And now, fun with statistics:

Something else that occured to me, regarding Cheney and the other nine guys: If 10 guys killed 417 birds, that makes an average of 41.7 birds per man. So Dick, at 70 birds, is 60% more bloodthirsty than the average mass-pheasant-slaughterer. (Maybe he should use that as a campaign slogan.;) )

[GIGObuster]

Um, sure. He's not a vegetarian.

After reading the OP and Libertarian's post, from now on I'll picture Cheney as Elmer Fudd:

"I'm sorry, fellas, but I'm a vegetarian. I only hunt for the sport." - Elmer Fudd

http://www.animationusa.com/wb96.html

[Liberal]

Funny coincidence, though. I already had pictured him as Elmer Fudd. Bush is Wiley Coyote. And John Ashcroft is Daffy Duck. Or Janet Waco. Whichever.

[Bryan Ekers]

I had a friend who used to have a summer job on a chicken farm. He said one night he had to wring the necks of 30,000 chickens.

Isn't that a Klingon proverb? "30,000 necks can be wrung in one night, by a running man."

[DoctorJ]

Personally, I picture him dancing naked through a pile of pheasant corpses while "Happy Together" by the Turtles plays and we fade to black.
Now there's an image I'll be describing to a court-appointed psychiatrist someday.

[UncleBeer]

Posted by Dropzone:So these birds have not developed the wiliness and intelligence that allowed their completely wild brothers to survive to adulthood? As your experience showed, three or four in a morning, even of these limited birds, is good hunting. Cheney shot seventy birds between, say, 8:00AM and noon, or one every three and a half minutes, and his party was bagging them at a rate of one every 35 seconds. It sounds like the birds were tripping over each other in the field and it still sounds like Cheney et al were just a few steps removed from plugging a barnyard full of chickens.
Yeah, as I said it seems to me like a lot of birds for a morning's hunt. In fact, after reading several other news stories about this, it appears that Cheney's hunt wasn't all that much like my experience. It seems that the birds released in Rolling Rock, were under a net, or series of nets, set up in front of these guys. And then were simply released. The hunters weren't traipsing around a field behind their dogs trying to flush the birds like we hadda do. At least that's my understanding of the stories I've read - they're kinda short on the details of what actually occured. If that's the case though, ugh, that doesn't sound like something I'd wanna do. It would be more like target practice than hunting.

What's left completely unexplained though, since the stories also seemed to be saying that the dogs we're merely used to retrieve downed birds, is how they got the birds in the air. I've found that without a dog, or when a person actually stumbles over a crouched bird, that most pheasants prefer to run, rather than fly. Flight is their last choice of escaping and you need a dog in their face to get 'em in the air. Hmm.

Posted by Elvis:Unc, you should know that this selective claim not to be making value judgments is itself a value judgment. And try to read the damn link before "explaining" it next time, willya?
Hey looky! It's an Elvis sighting. Fucker runs away in threads where he's been proven wrong, because he refuses to admit his mistakes and do the honorable thing, only to surface and make off-topic perosnal snipes in other threads.

First, I'm not explaining the damn link you dumbass; I'm relating my personal experience hunting private clubs. Second, I'd ask you to explain that first sentence of yours I quoted, because as usual, it doesn't make any sense, but I'm not really that interested in what you have to say. I'd prefer you just shut up.

[lieu]

I imagine that if Cheney and any of the staff he requires to be available to him, the Secret Service entourage in tow, the support vehicles, the other nine hunters and any tag along media types were to go traipsing across the Pennsylvania landscape on a "traditional" hunt, there'd be a contingent moaning about how he's single handedly destroying the state's wilderness as well.

I wonder if ideology is driving folks sentiments on this issue seeing as how this hunting club has been in operation for a number of years, as have many others just like it visited annually by thousands, and yet the cry isn't raised until Dick is involved.

I've shot dozens of dove in a single day before. I guess that has some bearing on how if in office I'd handle foreign policy, huh?

[BF]

Not that I don´t belive you; but being the case that I live here and I´ve never heard of such hunting extravaganzas I´d appreciate a cite.
Besides, a pigeon weights what? 300/400 grams? multiplied by 500 that is up to 150/200 kilograms of dead birds on a sack; I can´t picture a hunter hauling that around.Glad to be of service. Here's a few.

Uruguay One (http://www.gssafaris.com/hunt_uruguay_vizcaino.html)

Uruquay Two (http://www.huntingmag.com/small_game/dove_0924/)

Argentina (http://www.dovehunting.us/)

Venezuela (http://canventours.com/ventours.htm)

As for hauling 'em around, that's what the gun bearers and beaters are for.

[dropzone]

Dove hunting: Season is all year long and no limitHas anybody mentioned to them that is how we solved our nasty Passenger Pigeon infestation?

[Homebrew]

Funny coincidence, though. I already had pictured him as Elmer Fudd.
So does Mark Fiore (http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0404/fiore.php)

[El_Kabong]

I wonder if ideology is driving folks sentiments on this issue seeing as how this hunting club has been in operation for a number of years, as have many others just like it visited annually by thousands, and yet the cry isn't raised until Dick is involved.

I wonder too. Let's find out.

lieu: "El_Kabong, are you making fun of Dick Cheney because he's a Republican?"

E_K"Nope, I can categorically state that I'm making fun of him because he flew in a large government-owned jet from Washington DC to Ligonier, PA, a mere three-hour's drive away, for the expressed purpose of shooting as many pheasants and ducks as he could in a half-day or so. I'm not one to begrudge a man his hobbies, but Jeez Louise. If he were a Democrat, I'd probably be making even more fun of him than I am now. Anyway, I stayed well clear of the 'Dick' jokes, didn't I?"

Well, there you have it, folks.

BTW, I grew up about a half-hour's drive from Ligonier, and went to the Rolling Rock steeplechases a couple of times. This is the first I'd heard that RRCC staged these kind of "hunts", and frankly I was blissful in my ignorance. Nevertheless, the story appears to have been covered more or less accurately, so there it is.

[Homebrew]

So does Mark Fiore (http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0404/fiore.php)
Sorry, wrong thread.

[An Arky]

I wonder if ideology is driving folks sentiments on this issue seeing as how this hunting club has been in operation for a number of years, as have many others just like it visited annually by thousands, and yet the cry isn't raised until Dick is involved.


Well this one's as easy as shooting pheasants in a barrel...it's because that place quite likely didn't make the news until Cheney went there. I've been against that type of hunting (it's for pussies, really) ever since I've known about it, for years. I don't care if Jesus Christ did it, it's a bunch of bullshit. The fact that the VP of our country did it is just icing on the cake. It merely reinforces the fact that he's an asshole.

[Ale]

Glad to be of service. Here's a few.

Uruguay One (http://www.gssafaris.com/hunt_uruguay_vizcaino.html)

Uruquay Two (http://www.huntingmag.com/small_game/dove_0924/)

Argentina (http://www.dovehunting.us/)

Venezuela (http://canventours.com/ventours.htm)

As for hauling 'em around, that's what the gun bearers and beaters are for.

Well, none of those sites talk about hundreds of birds per hunter... 30 or 40 ducks is the largest number I´ve read; not that is a smal number of ducks to shoot down anyway.
I can accept hunting as an activity when done properly, but this people look like German flak gunners in the winter of ´44.

[Andros_X]

Isn't that a Klingon proverb? "30,000 necks can be wrung in one night, by a running man."

Actually, the Klingon proverb is "Three thousand throats may be cut in one night by a running man." Wringing necks is too bloodless, methinks.

Also, re: Dick Cheney as Elmer Fudd: "Be vewwy, vewwy quiet. I'm hunting oil fields. Heheheheh---GACK!" *drops dead*

[lieu]

...it's because that place quite likely didn't make the news until Cheney went there.Yeah, it or the other three hundred and fifty freakin' seven in Pennsylvania alone. It's not like they've been trying to hide. Heck, there's adverts everywhere. Yet no one's outraged until it's Cheney. Heck, nothing's been said about the other members of the party, a couple of which are well known, one maybe even more so than Dick.

Again, this type of hunting's not my cup of tea but the VP can't always be running off to South Dakota for the real deal just any afternoon. He's known for being an excellent shot and I'm sure given a choice he'd likely prefer the real deal. I wouldn't do it but it's completely legal and it's what the birds were raised for.

I understand disliking the clubs. I don't agree with making selective political hay.

[Goofus]

Happy birthday Dick Cheney
Happy birthday Dick Cheney
Hope the pheasants' blood didn't get your shoes all stain-ey
Happy birthday Dick Cheney

But seriously, Dick, if you're reading this, I hope you have a happy birthday, and by next year may you have a lot more free time. :p

[An Arky]

I understand disliking the clubs. I don't agree with making selective political hay.

I hear you. Tell you what, if someone can find me a liberal who's gone and done this, I'll be happy to rip them a new one, too. Maybe Clinton or Gore (or Kerry or Clark or Edwards, etc) may have done such things, too... :)

[lieu]

Clinton's (http://www.all-creatures.org/aip/nl-31oct2001-canned.html)been on them too, as have Scalia, Bush Sr., etc. It's just that Cheney is apparently one hell of a lot more adept at hitting what he's aiming for.

[An Arky]

Clinton's (http://www.all-creatures.org/aip/nl-31oct2001-canned.html)been on them too, as have Scalia, Bush Sr., etc. It's just that Cheney is apparently one hell of a lot more adept at hitting what he's aiming for.

Well, screw him, too. He's only 1/70th as bad as Cheney, though, using that yardstick. Actually that would pretty much correlate to the ratio of evil involved in getting a BJ from an intern to sending a bunch of our country's finest to die in the invasion of Iraq (under false pretenses).

[lieu]

He was there and at others. His ineptitude makes it excusable though, huh?

[lieu]

Strike that last sentence, as you did say screw him too.

I'm not going to selectively bust Cheney's chops here. I don't know his situation and there's been woefully little credible information that's come out. One employee violating the club's policy and talking about an average experience is about it.

[Chefguy]

He was there and at others. His ineptitude makes it excusable though, huh?

At the risk of incurring more wrath, I would point out again that it's not the hunt that bothers me, it's the excess involved in this particular example. It seriously creeps me out, particularly in light of Cheney's single-minded pursuit of dominance in the Middle East long before he made it to the VP job.

The mindset required for wholesale slaughter is disturbing in anyone, to say the least, but in someone who is a heartbeat away from the presidency, it's downright frightening. It matters not in the least to me that the results were donated to a food bank. I don't care if he personally cooked the birds and spoon fed them to lepers (although that would actually demonstrate some humanity in the man). It was bloodsport, plain and simple; mindless killing for the sake of killing.

[lieu]

I've met him twice Chefguy, the second time giving him a demonstration of our software when his company bought ours in a friendly takeover. He strikes me as a thoroughly decent guy... intelligent, thoughtful and definately able to see through the extraneous bullshit straight to the heart of a problem. I admire him and have no problem giving him the benefit of the doubt here, especially with details and corroboration in such short supply.

Obviously some aren't going to believe me, but not once during that presentation did he emit a nervous cackle.

[Chefguy]

I've met him twice Chefguy, the second time giving him a demonstration of our software when his company bought ours in a friendly takeover. He strikes me as a thoroughly decent guy... intelligent, thoughtful and definately able to see through the extraneous bullshit straight to the heart of a problem. I admire him and have no problem giving him the benefit of the doubt here, especially with details and corroboration in such short supply.

Obviously some aren't going to believe me, but not once during that presentation did he emit a nervous cackle.

No problem believing you, man. I met Bill Clinton and Hillary and not once did he unzip his fly in my presence. :p

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Clinton's (http://www.all-creatures.org/aip/nl-31oct2001-canned.html)been on them too, as have Scalia, Bush Sr., etc. It's just that Cheney is apparently one hell of a lot more adept at hitting what he's aiming for.

Spinning this as skill and talent? Skill doesn't really equate with Cornyn's description of the event, and he was there. Or didn't you read the linked article on the first page.

He conceded that bagging the birds was so easy, at times it seemed
"kind of like how Tyson's and Pilgrim's Pride and other people do it. I must
tell you that people don't necessarily hunt the same way in Texas that they
hunt in Ligonier, Penn., but it was enjoyable," he said.

Such skill. How adept.

[lieu]

Hentor, twern't really a glowing praise of Cheney. More of an observation on the ineptitude of Clinton's... umm... caliber.

[New Iskander]

The numbers do boggle the mind, indeed. What was it, 417 Iraqi pheasants? Say what? 417 American pheasants? Well, how does that make it any more attractive?

If I were ever invited to such a shindig (well, it's a great country and anything is possible here, right?), I think I'd shot me 4 or 5 birds and head for the bar. But what do I really know? It might be a nice morning, young sun rays are chasing away the morning chill, air is crisp, colors are bright, dogs are barking, guides are hollering, my companions are blasting away like there is no tomorrow... it just might be possible to get carried away, who knows?

[Ukulele Ike]

Is anybody else thinking of Danny, Champion of the World and that nasty Squire with the silver Rolls Royce?

Me, I'm thinking of Sarban's The Sound of His Horn.

If Bush/Cheney win in November, and the shackles come off, by this time next year he'll maybe be hunting women dressed up in feather costumes.

[carnivorousplant]

Hentor, twern't really a glowing praise of Cheney. More of an observation on the ineptitude of Clinton's... umm... caliber.

Clinton went duck hunbting in Arkansas with some guys while in office.
The news showed one duck in the back of the truck.
Perhaps they accomplished something else. :)

And Bush is the Yosemite Sam.