50 is not between 30 and 40; or, Get a clue already! Yet another dating rant

[Eva Luna]

Yes, it’s another complaint about my online personal ad. So far it seems to attract three basic kind of guys:

1) computer programmers named Dave (I kid you not; the first time I posted it, I must have had five computer programmers named Dave respond. Not that I have anything against either computer programmers or guys named Dave per se but it was more than a little weird). Actually, a disproportionate number of folks in the IT field in general.

I can understand that the online personals audience is somewhat self-selecting, but my other female friends who have gone this route have reported a lot more variety in their responses. And given that I mention nothing about computers or even anything technical whatsoever in my ad, it seems awfully random. Even my guy friends who are computer programmers have offered no logical explanation. (disclosure: jeevmon insists there’s some correlation with his interpretation of the ad, which is basically “Hi! I’m eccentric, and I like eccentric people!” But that’s a discussion for another day.)

2) Guys who are ten years older than my stated age range (I’m 35, and gave a range of 30-40). A year or two outside the range? I might consider you. Ten? I don’t want to date a guy if I feel like he’s my dad. I have nothing against older guys as a concept, but 15 years is usually stretching it. I know it works for some people (my dad being a prime example; my stepmom is 14 years younger than him), but hey, so I have preferences. Please respect them, or at least acknowledge them.

3) Guys who live in another time zone and state in their profiles that they don’t want to relocate. Given that I’ve stated I don’t want to relocate, and that I want a long-term relationship, etc. rather than a one-night stand (which seems much easier to accomplish locally in any case), what the heck are they thinking? Or haven’t they figured out how to read the location field?

I cannot for the life of me figure out why people pay money to join dating sites, and then waste other people’s time by trying to start something that the intended victim has clearly stated she doesn’t want. If you’re going to contact me, at least read the frigging profile! Pay attention, people!

The last guy e-mailed me yesterday; he is 49, didn’t say a word about what in my profile inspired him to contact me other than that I’m female, and a brief survey of his profile revealed nothing that I might have in common with him other than a love of good coffee. (Now I like good coffee just as much as the next girl, but I still don’t think it’s enough of a common interest on which to base a happy relationship.) His text profile says he has “salt-and-pepper” hair, but his photo reveals that he is BALD

Now how, short of bluntly stating that I don’t want to date my father, can I make guys get a clue? Or is it completely hopeless? There seems to be a basic lack of reading comprehension going on here. Or is it just the volume approach, i.e. hope springs eternal, so let’s contact everyone we don’t find blatantly repulsive? (One ex of mine said he had a friend who would basically go to a bar and ask every non-repulsive girl to go home with him. 99 out of 100 would throw a drink in his face, but then there was always the 100th.)

[jeevwoman]

You know, I was just going to ask how the latest crop of suitors was; guess I will infer from your post that the answer is 'same old; same old.' I don't know why they waste your time, either. Maybe they think the age thing can be overcome--and certainly you are open to the possibility for the absolute right person, I'm sure. But they should at least say, "I know I am a bit past your age range, but we have A, B and C in common so I thought I'd give it a try."

Maybe in your ad you can put "Not interested in relocating or a long-distance relationship. REALLY. Don't think that I will fall so madly in love with you that I will give up my entire Chicago life and pack up to move in with you. I won't. NOT EVER." Not subtle but it seems like subtly ain't working so much.

[lieu]

Your intelligence comes through in your writing like the pattern on a flow blue plate. Men (at least many) find that attractive. See, it's your own darn fault.







Regards,

40ish computer guy that doesn't want to relocate

[lauramarlane]

'same old; same old.'
That's funny :)

But anyway, I was doing some research on personal ads and the inherent differences that exist between men's ads and women's. One source I read (sorry, I can't remember where) said that when men make a list of what they're looking for, most men look at that as a range and if you don't quite fit, that's fine, too. But women who have a list are very particular about it--if they say no one over 40, they pretty much mean it. I tend to agree with this because it held pretty true when I was doing the online dating thing.

Since this is a rant, I really should add that I hate it when strange guys IM me for sex. It says pretty clearly on my profile that I'm in a long term realtionship. Why do they assume that if I'm online, that fact alone must mean I'm looking to cyber?!

[Papermache Prince]

You could write pages of detailed explanation of what you want vis a vis age and the guy reading will think "Of course, that doesn't apply to me."

[blowero]

If it makes you feel any better, I tried on-line personals awhile back, and the pool of women isn't exactly stellar either. At least the men tell you they're older than you. Women seem to just stop counting at 30. Some of the pictures I got made me say to myself: "If you're 30 then I'm Brad Pitt". And you have to automatically add 20 pounds to whatever description they give. "Just a little overweight" means morbidly obese. Then there was the woman who lived with her parents, had no job, and complained that I wasn't "financially independent" enough for her, or some other euphemism that meant just making a good living wasn't sufficient. Geez, just say you're looking for a sugar daddy up front, and don't waste people's time. Or the one who showed up for a date dressed in sweats. Or the one who came 45 minutes late (I figured I had been stood up and had just gotten up to leave), and said "Sorry I'm late, I was talking to my friend." Or the one who, on our first date, said "Oh, by the way, I have 3 kids and I live in a trailer." That's cool if you have kids, but don't LIE about it for Pete's sake.

Now how, short of bluntly stating that I don’t want to date my father, can I make guys get a clue? Or is it completely hopeless? There seems to be a basic lack of reading comprehension going on here. Or is it just the volume approach, i.e. hope springs eternal, so let’s contact everyone we don’t find blatantly repulsive? (One ex of mine said he had a friend who would basically go to a bar and ask every non-repulsive girl to go home with him. 99 out of 100 would throw a drink in his face, but then there was always the 100th.)

I blame Hollywood. It's all these romantic movies where the girl hates the guy at first, but then finally falls for him due only to his sheer persistence. We create this expectation that the guy is supposed to keep trying and trying, and the girl is supposed to be reticent at first. Ugh! It's so damned silly. I run into this a lot myself. A friend might say, "Why don't you ask so-and-so out?", and I'll say "I did ask her out; she said she's not interested." Then my friend will say, "Well, ask her again." Huh? She's an adult, and I figure if she wanted to go out with me, she would have said "yes". Case closed.

As for the guys answering who don't fit your profile, it might be that they don't fit anybody's profile, so they just figure their only hope is that someone might lower their standards. I know back when I was looking at personal ads, 90% or so of the women said the guy had to be over 6' tall and make over $100,000 a year. Kinda ruled me out.

[Eva Luna]

You know, I was just going to ask how the latest crop of suitors was; guess I will infer from your post that the answer is 'same old; same old.'

Actually, there is one guy who seems promising; we’ve been swapping e-mails all week. You and jeevmon will be glad to hear that he’s a nice Jewish boy originally from Ohio, just moved here from NY for a new job, a year younger than me, who loves to travel and does NOT work in IT. Bonus: he actually read the damn profile, has a sense of humor, and can write complete and grammatical sentences. (I’m told I should wait 2-3 dates before I ask when his last long-term relationship ended.)

Oh, and at risk of turning this into a rant on dating in general, then there’s category #4: guys who seem to see an invisible psychic tattoo on my forehead that apparently reads, “Please date this woman while you are still too much on the rebound to function like a normal human being.” In addition to a couple of threads from a year or so ago which I’m too lazy to link to right now, I recently set the world’s record for being dumped.

One date. Yes, one date. Date went reasonably well; he liked me, anyway. Asked if I wanted to go to a movie the following weekend at the end of Date #1; I agreed (it’s not like my social calendar is that full), and we decided to touch base on the specifics later that week. I got a call on Wed. on my cell phone while I was outside in 20-degree weather; asked if I could call back from home where it was warm, and he agreed. Called from home an hour or so later; no answer. The next morning I got an e-mail from him which basically said, “Nice having lunch with you, you’re a nice person, I’m not over my ex, not ready to date anyone. Have a nice life.”

I must have been really mean in a past life, or at least really flaky.

[Duke]

I blame the impersonal replies on, well, let me tell you my experience. As I mentioned in the match.com thread elmwood started, when I was on that site I sent out 20 replies to women's profiles. I carefully read each ad, then wrote an e-mail to each woman which I hope reflected my consideration. In return, I received bupkus--no replies, no "winks," nada.

I suppose it took me about 20-25 minutes to read the profile, think about what I was going to write, then type out an e-mail. So that was about six hours of work. Now, with those six hours, I could have carpet-bombed about 500 profiles with the equivalent of a form letter. I couldn't possibly have gotten fewer replies than I actually did.

I think the biggest problem I have with those sites is, as Eva and blowero suggest, there's no mileage in being honest. I suppose I could also have claimed I was making $200K, looked like a movie star (I could have cut-and-pasted something from IMDB) and had a high-powered job in the Big City. No one would have been any wiser 'till I rolled up in my Honda Civic. But at least I would have actually gotten a date, as opposed to where I got with honesty.

So, I guess the story is, people will lie, cheat, and act like jerks to get a date. Film at 11.

[jayjay]

Flaky...oh, yes. Go ahead and TELL me about flaky!

I haven't done actual put-your-ad-online date-mining yet, but I have dated guys off of chat and IM acquaintance. Or at least tried. Ninety-nine times out of 100, I'd get a week's worth of good conversations online, then they just...*poof*. Disappear. I won't hear from them for a week or more then they're suddenly there again like they never left.

Then there was the guy who was supposed to be the third in a triad with me and supervenusfreak. He lived in south Jersey and would visit on weekends. Unfortunately, he came with baggage: basically, two exes who were a good 30 years older than him and still very much running his life. Things were fine as long as he was only expected to spend a few hours a week with us and the exes didn't know about the relationship. Once they found out, he was suddenly constantly "unable to get away". We even drove out there once when he couldn't come here, and we spent six hours getting about 1/4 of his attention while he ran all over Camden running errands for his exes. The relationship ended soon after that. I just refused to consider someone who was so lightly connected to our situation as an actual lover or partner. He was a nice guy, but he was so flaky that his priorities were way out in left field.

[Duke]

...I recently set the world’s record for being dumped.

One date. Yes, one date. Hah...for most of us single guys, that's average. It's happened to me often enough that I call them "one-and-dones."

I've been dumped before the first date. Back in LA I'd agreed to go out with a lady who I had an occasional acquaintance with, but she called the day before to cancel. Then, for reasons only Og knows, she started giving me the "we can be friends" speech....

[lauramarlane]

I can actually say that I dumped a guy before we even left for the date. I went to pick him up at his house (being the modern, freespirited woman of the '00s that I am) and he answered the door wearing nothing but a towel. Yeah, nice move, Rico Suave, buh bye. :rolleyes:

[elmwood]

4) Women who claim to be 32 or 33 , but the photo shows someone who looks to be 45. Even if their face is young, old lady hairdos, like having short but poofy hair, make me suspicious.

I'm 38 now. I have no problems dating a woman in their early 40s. Just be honest about it. To be superficial, though ... no old lady hairdos, okay?

I'll admit it's difficult to determine the age of women with profile pictures that look Appalachian, as if they were ridden hard and put away wet.


5) Women who are 5' 6" and weigh 200 pounds do not have "average" builds. Maybe in Samoa, perhaps, but not in the rest of the country. Don't give me the usual "the average woman in the US weighs 240 pounds" or "Marilyn Monroe was a size 28" BS, either. Average means "weight proportionate to height," which admittedly may be hard to define, but we know it when we see it, and 200 pounds ain't it.

We men know that in online personal ad land, "slim" means average; "average" means average to 10 or 20 extra pounds, "a few extra pounds" means large, and "large" means huge. Don't make things more confusing by classifying your body type as "average" if you're really large.

[mhendo]

I blame Hollywood. It's all these romantic movies where the girl hates the guy at first, but then finally falls for him due only to his sheer persistence. We create this expectation that the guy is supposed to keep trying and trying, and the girl is supposed to be reticent at first. Ugh! It's so damned silly. Hollywood movies don't just encourage persistence. They also encourage 55 year-old men in the belief that women twenty or even thirty years younger will inevitably find them attractive.

Hollywood routinely has a 50+ male character in a romantic relationship with a twenty-something, beautiful woman; the reverse is almost unheard of. Also, when an older woman and a younger man date in the movies, their age difference becomes a big plot issue (e.g. Susan Sarandon/James Spader in "White Palace"). Same in real life (e.g., Demi Moore/Ashton Kutcher).

Eva Luna, i think you have to get brutal with these guys. Tell them that, after reading their profile, you have decided to put them in contact with your aunt, who is also looking for a partner.


Note: I have no problem with large age differences in dating, as long as both parties are happy with the situation. I just don't like the double-standard whereby old man/young woman is fine, but not vice versa.

[Giraffe]

Eva, my only advice is not to change your profile in response to the nimrods you describe in your OP. These nimrods aren't reading your profile. At most they're looking at your picture. No matter how clearly you spell out what you're looking for, there will always be people using the shotgun approach, and a profile filled with complaints about previous respondants may put off normal people.

Instead, maybe bury inside your profile a magic word or phrase that will guarantee applicants a reply of some sort, even if it's just a "not interested, thanks". This will give you a simple way to at least see who read the darn thing.

[Epimetheus]

While I am not a member of Match.com (though I do have a profile (http://match.com/profile/showprofile.aspx?sid=5E30103A-32DB-4E60-882C-5B4089F72C38&trackingid=0&theme=211&lid=226&TP=U&UID=xkCGS%2bIcuyDhkrtaht7puQ%3d%3d&Handle=dpgo))
, I do frequent hotornot. I really think the goal is to get as many matches as possible on that board. I write often, and tailor my initial emails to fit their keywords or introduction to insert humor or creativity, to stand out mostly. I hardly ever get a response, if I do it is somebody in Isreal or some 16 or 17 year old girl somewhere else in the country looking for a penpal (email pal?).

I never write women that say they are not interested in (insert peeve, or requirement). I have had a person stop writing because of the color of my car:

Her: I am into numerology and astrology and have a system of judging a persons personality based on the color of their car: I hope you don't drive a red one. HAHAHA

Me: ....

Her: Why didn't you respond?

Me: I drive a red car... (and the fact that I think your a loon, but I didn't type that)

Her: No reply.


Oh well, even if I got a date I don't think I would know how to act. I have not had a date since...

I don't know, 1996? Early 1997? When a woman gives me a compliment I blush profusely and clam up. When they hit on me, I don't know what to do. Even so, I suppose if I did well on the first date, and the second- I figure it wouldn't work. I have nothing to offer a woman, I haven't had sex in over 9 years (this october will be a full decade) so I certainly will not be skilled, something I think is expected out of a 26 year old. I have no money, as a poor college student with a roommate in a small cramped apartment I barely pay my bills, let alone be able to buy jewelry. Once I graduate from college and start making the "somewhat" big bucks (pharmacist), I might be able to offer that- but only for the gold diggers.

I think it will be the mail-order bride route or celibacy for life.


But I digress...
More on topic...5 years back, 10 years foward is my general rule of thumb when thinking about dating women-cant imagine dating somebody under 21, and cant' imagine dating anybody over 36.

[Rune]

Hey Eva! I’m male, 35, can’t count to 3 and not called Dave. Perfect match! When can you pick me up?

- Rune

[blowero]

I have nothing to offer a woman, I haven't had sex in over 9 years (this october will be a full decade) so I certainly will not be skilled, something I think is expected out of a 26 year old.
Nah, she's gotta like you to even let you get to the point where your sexual prowess would even come into question; at that point, she's not gonna dump you just because you don't have the Kama Sutra memorized. As long as you know how to listen, anyway. Back me up on this, ladies...

[blowero]

Hey Eva! I’m male, 35, can’t count to 3 and not called Dave. Perfect match! When can you pick me up?

- Rune
Make sure she brings a six-pack.:D

[Siege]

Blowero, consider yourself backed up. I move at a glacial pace when it comes to dating and, up until recently, my dating record's been as abysmal as anyone else's here, but, trust me, gentlemen. If I come to the point where I am willing to have sex with you, I'm not worried about how long it's been (or how long it is, for that matter!). If we're at that point, I figure we can work something out or at least have a lot of fun trying!

Then again, I'm pretty well over on the wierd side myself!

CJ

[Dob]

Sorry to hear its going so bad Eva! Let me give you the same advice I gave all my younger sisters....

Men are stupid.


Keep that in mind and you should never have any problem figuring out why we do any of the things we do. :)

[wolfman]

I think I can help ya somewhat with your problem.
See, I'm an IT guy. I have worked with 6 different computer guys named Dave. 4 of them were openly gay. The other 2 I didn't know personally that well, but indicators pointed towards them being gay.

So it seems obvious that
1. All computer guys named Dave are gay.
2. Computer guys named Dave are attracted to you.

Ergo: You are a man.

I hope that helps with your situation.

[Eva Luna]

Hey Eva! I’m male, 35, can’t count to 3 and not called Dave. Perfect match! When can you pick me up?

- Rune

Well, as I seem to recall from another recent thread, you are married and living on another continent, so that pretty much rules you right out. Unless you were lying, but then that rules you out anyway. Sorry. ;)

[Eva Luna]

Make sure she brings a six-pack.:D

What, no pizza with that six-pack? I must be slumming.

[Eva Luna]

Nah, she's gotta like you to even let you get to the point where your sexual prowess would even come into question; at that point, she's not gonna dump you just because you don't have the Kama Sutra memorized. As long as you know how to listen, anyway. Back me up on this, ladies...

I'll back you up on that. And besides, enthusiasm and willingness to learn counts for a lot, sometimes more than upfront skill (or skill upfront, however you want to think of it). A guy who knows what he's doing but doesn't have his heart in it is sometimes worse than no guy at all. Just ask my ex.

[Lizard]

Here's a thought for the OP: how about getting off your ass and leaving your house to meet men? Your complaints arouse about as much sympathy in me as someone who complains because the telemarketers calling her aren't offering good enough deals. It seems to me you're getting about what the effort you've invested deserves.

[Eva Luna]

Here's a thought for the OP: how about getting off your ass and leaving your house to meet men? Your complaints arouse about as much sympathy in me as someone who complains because the telemarketers calling her aren't offering good enough deals. It seems to me you're getting about what the effort you've invested deserves.

Thanks for your support. You know, I leave my house every morning. I have friends, and family, and hobbies, and a job. I travel, attend cultural events, lectures, and all sorts of activities. You don't know squat about what I do in my free time.

But I have always been rather shy about approaching complete strangers in group situations. And I can't deal with cigarette smoke, which pretty much rules out bars. I'm not proud of being too shy to approach people most of the time - sometimes I think my sister got all the family flirtation genes - and I have tried very hard to overcome it. One-on-one situations are more comfortable for me. It was diffficult, and took a long time, fo rme to do even this much. I'm making an effort in my own way.

And well, negative reinforcement was never one of my personal favorites. I hope it works for you elsewhere.

[OxyMoron]

Not that it's any help for you, Eva, but man, that's an attractive response to unpleasantness. Really.

Lizard, why not make a visit to the proctologist and have your assumptions examined?

[Typo Negative]

His text profile says he has “salt-and-pepper” hair, but his photo reveals that he is BALD

Some of us bald guys are still hot, ya know.....

[blowero]

Some of us bald guys are still hot, ya know.....
Hey, I remember Captain Picard ending up in the sack a few times.

[IWLN]

Some of us bald guys are still hot, ya know.....[Soothing tone]Yes, yes, of course you are.

My profile said a head of hair was optional, but men with hair in their ears need not apply. My tone was kind of sarcastic humor. I had about 50 replies and "dates" for coffee over the next month and I hate coffee! Hubby was #48. Men seem to lie about their height and their hobbies. I just wanted someone at least a tiny bit taller than me and who enjoys doing something, anything. I'm 5'7" and I am actually bright enough to know when someone is shorter than I am. Advice for the guys. Keep it light to start with and DO NOT bring a dozen long-stemmed red roses to Denny's. It scares the hell out of us!!! :)

[blowero]

[Soothing tone]Yes, yes, of course you are.
Men seem to lie about their height and their hobbies. I just wanted someone at least a tiny bit taller than me and who enjoys doing something, anything. I'm 5'7" and I am actually bright enough to know when someone is shorter than I am.
I hear you, but you have to understand that it's tough for us shorties. I'm 5'5, and here's what's rough: Almost all of the women 5'5 and over want a man taller than they are. O.K., that sucks, but I'll deal. But here's what really chapped my hide - women who are under 5'5 almost all want tall men too. It's just absurd; you see ads where the woman is only 5 feet tall but insists that she only date men 5'10 and over. I'm sorry, but men are not, on average 10 INCHES taller than women. At some point, the math breaks down, and someone is going without a date.

Hmmm....that might be the problem, actually. If all the women are competing for the tallest 30 or 40 percent of men (not to mention the top 20% income bracket), that would explain why some of you are having so much trouble.

[IWLN]

I hear you, but you have to understand that it's tough for us shorties.Since the profile was to state my preferences, that's what I did. It actually was the lie more than the height issue. Lying before the first date is a red flag to me. I am a medium sized person and no that doesn't mean over 200 pounds, thank you, just not petite. If a guy was shorter than I was, he at least needed to be stocky, muscular or even a little over-weight. I just didn't want to be "bigger" than he was. It's a girly thing. Still no hairy ears though.;)

[Eva Luna]

Some of us bald guys are still hot, ya know.....

Oh, I know! But let's jut say it wasn't a look that worked on him. And the main point is: how can you have salt-and-pepper hair if you're bald?

Hmmmm....I just realized how one might do that. And it'snot a thought I care to explore further in this instance...

[AngelicGemma]

I hear you, but you have to understand that it's tough for us shorties. I'm 5'5, and here's what's rough: Almost all of the women 5'5 and over want a man taller than they are.

So date a women under 5'5! (My boyfriend is 5'5 and I'm 5'2. So it is possible. :) )

[Steve Wright]

Well, y'know, Eva, I'm only one year over your age range, and I've still got my own hair, so ...

The Plain People of the Straight Dope: She's not going to go out with you, Steve.

Oh? And why not, might I enquire?

The Plain People of the Straight Dope: Because she's met you.

... Oh. Yes. Right. I was forgetting that ...

[Rune]

Get lost Steve I saw her first.

Another continent. . .wife. . . children. aw Eve don’t get hung up on details, besides Aldebaran just convinced me polygamy is the way to go. Come around (remember the beer and pizza) you’ll show me how to wear funny American clothes and talk loud in public, I’ll show you how to eat raw herring and drink snaps till you pass out. It’ll be great!

- Rune

[Eva Luna]

Steven, Winston, now now boys, no squabbling!

Actually, if you want to be technical, Winston, Steven did actually meet me first. In person and everything. There are even photos to prove it. And Steven, unless you’ve moved recently, you also live on another continent. No hard feelings, OK? I’m sure there is some lovely woman out there for you, and if the BritDopers would get off their rear ends and fix you up (hint, hint if you’re reading this, BritDopers), maybe you’ll meet her sooner rather than later.

Another note to Winston: I’m not so good with the schnapps, but raw herring (OK, pickled, but still technically raw) is Ashkenazi Jewish soul food. I’ve been eating it since I had teeth. Northeast European origins and all, you know. And I don’t know how much I can help you with the loudness and funny clothes: remember, if I were extroverted I might not be having this problem. And today I happen to be wearing jeans, which are pretty universal at this point, and a lovely and very practical and warm Scandinavian sweater.

So see? We’re really all not as different as we think sometimes.

[Scuba_Ben]

My experience with online personal ads wasn't too good, either. (Please look up my rant last July, "I can't get a date -- on a DATING site!" August wasn't an improvement.) Sometimes I would put a lot of enthusiasm into my initial contact email, and get no reply. In retrospect, I think at least part of that was the site's fault, the ladies might not have been paying customers. The other part may have been my personal curse, Trying Too Hard.

Several other times, once I contaced a lady, she replied to me, we talked on email (or phone) for about a week, I'd raise the subject of meeting in person... and she never returned that message.

And one lady contacted me, so I read her profile. She was very specific about the kind of man she was looking for -- and it was so NOT me, that I had no idea why she might be interested in me. She was specifically looking for a man she could wrap around her little finger, which certainly isn't me. So either she was honestly a Rich Bitch or a Gold-digger -- and I wasn't interested in either of those -- or else she was putting up a false front. There's a certain amount of fluff in any advertising campaign, including personal ads, but I'm not about to spend my time on someone who won't talk reasonably honestly about themselves (nor on someone who is honest and is not my type, but that's not a point to rant about).

Eva -- I meet one and a half of your criteria; I'm in your age range, and my name's not Dave. If I can't have a date with you, do I at least get a raisin? :)

Nah, she's gotta like you to even let you get to the point where your sexual prowess would even come into question; at that point, she's not gonna dump you just because you don't have the Kama Sutra memorized. As long as you know how to listen, anyway. Back me up on this, ladies...I was best man last summer for a very good friend's wedding. We gave him Kama Sutra as a bachelor party gift. He said he was going to take it on the honeymoon. :D Any guy who doesn't have that book memorized ought to be eager and willing to work directly from the manual, given the right partner.

[Count Blucher]

Yes, it’s another complaint about my online personal ad.

1) computer programmers named Dave (I kid you not; the first time I posted it, I must have had five computer programmers named Dave respond. Not that I have anything against either computer programmers or guys named Dave per se but it was more than a little weird).


Luckily, the last Dave we sent to you was wired for sound and taped the date. Here are the excerpts:

when ordering at the restaurant:

http://www.palantir.net/cgi-bin/file.cgi?file=wav/info.wav


When he was told 'no kiss at the door':

http://www.palantir.net/cgi-bin/file.cgi?file=wav/stresspi.wav


His attmpts to see if you were playing 'hard to get':

http://www.palantir.net/cgi-bin/file.cgi?file=wav/dave.wav


When you said no means no:

http://www.palantir.net/cgi-bin/file.cgi?file=wav/cantdo.wav


Even the sex-talk after you finally gave in:

http://www.palantir.net/cgi-bin/file.cgi?file=wav/feelit.wav


And of course, how you ended the conversation afterwards:

http://www.palantir.net/cgi-bin/file.cgi?file=wav/goodbye.wav

[Count Blucher]

*you'll need to cut & paste the link to a browser.

[Jenaroph]

Originally Posted by blowero
I hear you, but you have to understand that it's tough for us shorties. I'm 5'5, and here's what's rough: Almost all of the women 5'5 and over want a man taller than they are. So date a women under 5'5! (My boyfriend is 5'5 and I'm 5'2. So it is possible. :) )

Eh, actually, Gemma, I think you missed his next statement here:
But here's what really chapped my hide - women who are under 5'5 almost all want tall men too. It's just absurd; you see ads where the woman is only 5 feet tall but insists that she only date men 5'10 and over.
IMHO height's a poor reason to turn a guy down. If height is a dealbreaker for a woman you're looking to date, she's probably not someone you want to hook up with anyway.

[Eva Luna]

So it seems obvious that
1. All computer guys named Dave are gay.
2. Computer guys named Dave are attracted to you.

Ergo: You are a man.

I hope that helps with your situation.

Funny you should say that. Actually, I did go out with 2 of the computer guys named Dave; both figure prominently in threads of a year or so ago.

One Dave-date never went anywhere, because among other things he didn’t know how to make eye contact when conversing, and I obviously made him really uncomfortable on some level, although he kept asking me out, so I obviously didn’t repulse him. After the third really awkward and uncomfortable date, I gave up.

The other Dave and I hit it off really, really well, but one friend of mine decided he was in the closet when after 3 dates he hadn’t made any sort of a move on me, although we obviously enjoyed each other’s company. However, unless the whole thing was a really elaborate hoax, he turned out to be quite non-gay; after he did a complete flip-out (which even he acknowledged; it’s also described in an old thread), he was one of the ones who turned out not to be over his ex. I though what the heck, we have a lot in common, let’s be friends, and he agreed. But after a number of months of really bizarre back-and-forth, are we friends or are we dating? stuff, it was beginning to leave me really confused. And let’s just say that I tend to give up on a guy after he (unprompted) offers to help me move, and then disappears off the face of the Earth (although he lives three blocks from me), never to be heard from again.

And well, I don’t think anyone reading this thread can literally confirm firsthand that I’m not a man, but a few can confirm that if I’m not, I’m one helluva convincing transvestite.

[AvariceAngel]

My boyfriend is a computer guy named Dave. Seriously.

[belladonna]

Mind if I use your thread to air a few of my own gripes on this front Eva?

To men who don't like/want kids---I mention my sons at least a half-dozen times in my profile. Stop replying to me, it makes you look stupid.

To men who want slender or toned women--I flat out say that, while physically active, I'm nowhere near slender. Stop replying to me, especially when your profiles are actually good, because as soon as I see that I feel totally inadequate.

To men who live five states away--Really, what the fuck are you thinking?

To almost all the men--simple probability theory negates the possibility that each and every one of you makes $75,000--100,000 a year. You aren't fooling anyone.

To the one guy who winked at me, had a really great background spelled out in his profile, was pretty damn attractive, and close to my age--The fact that you wrote "LOL" after every second sentence blew it. Seriously, how annoying is that?

To the men who can't spell, punctuate, or write complete sentences----Step away from the computer. Do it now, do it for the good of all mankind. Thank you.

And finally--To the big fat biker who admits to eating like a pig and never exercising--the fact that you say "no heavyset women" is deliciously ironic. Oh, and I especially liked the condition of "If you've ever dated a black man, don't bother replying". You are a vile, vile man.

[Count Blucher]

And well, I don’t think anyone reading this thread can literally confirm firsthand that I’m not a man, but a few can confirm that if I’m not, I’m one helluva convincing transvestite.


No typos ever, perfect syntax, flawless logic (and yet you are troubled by some things)and you're constantly trying to rid yourself of computer programmers named Dave. Are you Sure you're not a HAL9000 ...? :p

[Epimetheus]

So basically, if you make moves on a woman on the first or second date, you are a sex craved creep, but if you don't make moves, your a closet homosexual?

I'm glad I don't date, I am sure most people think I am gay because the front of my pants don't ballon out everytime I see an attractive woman too, so I guess it is a moot point.

[Eva Luna]

So basically, if you make moves on a woman on the first or second date, you are a sex craved creep, but if you don't make moves, your a closet homosexual?

I'm glad I don't date, I am sure most people think I am gay because the front of my pants don't ballon out everytime I see an attractive woman too, so I guess it is a moot point.

I didn’t say I believed that, and for the record, the friend who did is a guy. (It was also somewhat tongue-in-cheek.) Of course, he’s Mr. All Talk, No Action and basically won’t go for a cup of coffee with a woman until he believes she’s his soul mate, but that explains why he is single and is definitely a rant for another day.

[Beadalin]

elmwood sez:
as if they were ridden hard and put away wet
Is it just me, or does that sound kind of hot?

[Green Bean]

Women who are 5' 6" and weigh 200 pounds do not have "average" builds. Maybe in Samoa, perhaps, but not in the rest of the country. Don't give me the usual "the average woman in the US weighs 240 pounds" or "Marilyn Monroe was a size 28" BS, either. Average means "weight proportionate to height," which admittedly may be hard to define, but we know it when we see it, and 200 pounds ain't it.

We men know that in online personal ad land, "slim" means average; "average" means average to 10 or 20 extra pounds, "a few extra pounds" means large, and "large" means huge. Don't make things more confusing by classifying your body type as "average" if you're really large.

I've never filled out one of those profiles--do you choose your descriptions from a list, or do you type in your own?

I'd hate it if my only options were "a few extra pounds" or "large." Especially if it was universally assumed that "large" meant "huge." I'm fat, to be sure, but I'm quite active. But I'm not that fat, in any case. I wouldn't want to put "a few extra pounds," because that's false, but I'd be really reluctant to put down something that implied that I needed 2 seats on an airplane, because I'm nowhere near that big. (Do they have an option for "Samoan?") So what should someone put?

[Eva Luna]

I've never filled out one of those profiles--do you choose your descriptions from a list, or do you type in your own?



Generally it's multiple-choice, but every time I've clicked on a profile of a guy who listed "a few extra pounds," it was, to put it kindly, more than a few extra pounds. You pretty much end up with the size equivalent of grade inflation. Myself, I wouldn't mind losing 10 lbs., but I'm afraid that if I put "a few extra pounds" everyone will assume I mean 100. So I put "average," which in America means "a few extra pounds" anyway.

[Eva Luna]

To men who live five states away--Really, what the fuck are you thinking?


Would this be a good time to mention that my most recent correspondent was a guy, who once again either didn't read or didn't give a damn about my profile, because he is also in his late 40s, lists nothing whatsoever that I would have in common with him, but the kicker is that he lives in friggin' HAIFA?

[MaxTheVool]

Would this be a good time to mention that my most recent correspondent was a guy, who once again either didn't read or didn't give a damn about my profile, because he is also in his late 40s, lists nothing whatsoever that I would have in common with him, but the kicker is that he lives in friggin' HAIFA?

Take it as flattery. Your profile is so damn appealing that men lose all track of reason and email you even when they live nowhere near you.

(Speaking of which, to really comment on your profile and its effect on men, I think we need a link... :) )

[blowero]

Since the profile was to state my preferences, that's what I did. It actually was the lie more than the height issue. Lying before the first date is a red flag to me.

I know, sweetie - that's why I said "I hear you".

I am a medium sized person and no that doesn't mean over 200 pounds, thank you, just not petite. If a guy was shorter than I was, he at least needed to be stocky, muscular or even a little over-weight. I just didn't want to be "bigger" than he was. It's a girly thing. Still no hairy ears though.;)
You're perfectly entitled to your own preferences. I just personally don't get the whole "the man has to be bigger than the woman" thing. O.K., back in caveman times, I can understand that you'd want someone who can fight off saber-toothed tigers and all, but in this day and age...?

I also don't get the hair phobia. Men have more hair than women; it's just a fact. And yes, it often grows out our ears, on our chest and abdomen, our butts, and [gasp], even our backs. It's natural. Of course, I don't get men's hair phobia either. I hear guys say, "Ewww, did you see that chick? She had hair on her pits." Yeah, just like all women do. And not that I ever looked at one of those magazines (cough, cough), but what's with the little shaved racing stripe of hair down there below the waist? You're supposed to have hair - why are we so afraid of it? YMMV.

FWIW, I do trim the hair out of my ears.;)

[Eva Luna]

(Speaking of which, to really comment on your profile and its effect on men, I think we need a link... :) )

Well, even if I could access it from here (which I can't; I think they have the page blocked), I think I still prefer to maintain some semblance of control over who can connect the dots between all my various identities. Heck, I don't even have my e-mail posted on my profile here, though I've been known to e-mail people on request for various reasons. Sorry :)

(Although if anyone here who's read a few of my posts found it, they'd figure me out pretty quickly.)

[elmwood]

To almost all the men--simple probability theory negates the possibility that each and every one of you makes $75,000--100,000 a year. You aren't fooling anyone..

Well, maybe if all you women stop asking for minimum incomes of $50K or $75K, we'll stop lying!

:D

elmwood ($35,000-$50,000)

[elmwood]

Of course, I don't get men's hair phobia either. I hear guys say, "Ewww, did you see that chick? She had hair on her pits." Yeah, just like all women do. And not that I ever looked at one of those magazines (cough, cough), but what's with the little shaved racing stripe of hair down there below the waist? You're supposed to have hair - why are we so afraid of it?

Blame it on "society."

As a guy, I like women to look like ... well, women. When women are very hirsute, it feels as if ... well, I know she's not, but it feels as if she's kind of a guy, especially if she doesn't shave her pits or legs. Women with moustaches ... we're not talking whisps of hair like some Mediterranean or Latin women have, but full-blown moustaches ... well, I can't help but think of some state trooper named Ed or something.

I don't think all men require porn star-style pubic hair shaving jobs, but when it's ungroomed, wild and free, cunnilingus can be quite a challenge.

[Frank]

Blame it on "society."
Sure. You're right. I lived in Italy just as puberty was kicking in, so the idea of armpit hair on a woman doesn't bother me. Though I have to admit, the first time I noticed it, I thought the woman I was looking at was a mutant! Hair on legs does bother me. Go figure.

[Indygrrl]

I agree with what Giraffe said, these guys are responding because of your picture. Most of them don't even read the profiles.

I put a profile on Emode matchmaker several months ago for fun, and I've gotten tons of responses from men who don't have one thing in common with me. In fact, most of them are the opposite of what I'd look for in a guy.

Maybe you should try eHarmony. It's expensive, but I've heard it's much better than most of the freebie dating sites out there.

[vanilla]

4) Women who claim to be 32 or 33 , but the photo shows someone who looks to be 45. Even if their face is young, old lady hairdos, like having short but poofy hair, make me suspicious.

I'm 38 now. I have no problems dating a woman in their early 40s. Just be honest about it. To be superficial, though ... no old lady hairdos, okay?

I'll admit it's difficult to determine the age of women with profile pictures that look Appalachian, as if they were ridden hard and put away wet.


5) Women who are 5' 6" and weigh 200 pounds do not have "average" builds. Maybe in Samoa, perhaps, but not in the rest of the country. Don't give me the usual "the average woman in the US weighs 240 pounds" or "Marilyn Monroe was a size 28" BS, either. Average means "weight proportionate to height," which admittedly may be hard to define, but we know it when we see it, and 200 pounds ain't it.

We men know that in online personal ad land, "slim" means average; "average" means average to 10 or 20 extra pounds, "a few extra pounds" means large, and "large" means huge. Don't make things more confusing by classifying your body type as "average" if you're really large.


East side of Cleveland eh? I'm a few miles east of you.
5'11" and 140 lbs, gained 10 lbs in the past year.:)

[vanilla]

oh, BTW, I'm 45.

[county]

I don't know anything about computer dating but I gotta say that this is one of the most fascinating threads I've read.

(BTW I attended my niece's wedding in Seattle last year and the guy she married was a computer guy (Not named Dave) that she met on the internet - I don't much care for him, but that's ok because she likes him)

[Eva Luna]

I agree with what Giraffe said, these guys are responding because of your picture. Most of them don't even read the profiles.

[snip]

Maybe you should try eHarmony. It's expensive, but I've heard it's much better than most of the freebie dating sites out there.

Well, however much it would be nice to think it's the picture, I just put the picture up a few days ago, and most of the responses were before that (although Mr. Haifa's wasn't, nor was Mr. Bald Salt and Pepper's). So how many of you guys think if a woman doesn't post a picture, she'strying to hide something? I'm not, but as on the SDMB, I'd like to maintain some control over who has what information about me. It wasn't getting me anywhere, though, so I relented.

And the site I'm using isn't a free site, but I'm not going to get any more specific than that.

[CanvasShoes]

Nah, she's gotta like you to even let you get to the point where your sexual prowess would even come into question; at that point, she's not gonna dump you just because you don't have the Kama Sutra memorized. As long as you know how to listen, anyway. Back me up on this, ladies...

Yes. It's all in the man's attitude, not in his "talent". If he truly likes and enjoys women, and wants to make things fun sexually for them that's a great place to start.

[Duke]

Maybe you should try eHarmony. It's expensive, but I've heard it's much better than most of the freebie dating sites out there. Arrrgh, there be monsters there, aye.

I've written a lot about e-Harmony here. I'll say this about it...the way it's put together does tend to cut down on the jerks.

[Nawth Chucka]

Arrrgh, there be monsters there, aye.

I've written a lot about e-Harmony here. I'll say this about it...the way it's put together does tend to cut down on the jerks.
For less jerks, I can heartily recommend SciConnect; it's MUCH more specialized to the science and tech fields, most people on it are degreed and serious about dating someone intelligent. It worked great for me last year, until I found out the 'one great guy' had been lying to me for 9 weeks. I don't blame SciConnect for that, but it put me off online dating until 2 weeks ago, when another thread badgered me into rejoining. Now, I just believe most things about guys when I see them. I like to think that guy was an anomaly, but still...
Oh, SciConnect's cheaper than Match as well.
And EVA , once I posted my pic, I had the exact same age preference problem.

[Rilchiam]

Smug Married here, with a question for y'all.

These threads have inspired me to check out match.com and read some profiles. I've noticed that when people list athletic activities, the most common one seems to be "skiing".

Now how the heck can you ski on a regular basis, but still not meet prospective dates? Is this another example of people not being honest ("I went to Aspen with some co-workers in 1997 and fell down on the nursery slope, so technically, I can put 'skiing'")? Or is apres-ski not the warm, romantic atmosphere I've been led to believe?

[elmwood]

Now how the heck can you ski on a regular basis, but still not meet prospective dates? Is this another example of people not being honest ("I went to Aspen with some co-workers in 1997 and fell down on the nursery slope, so technically, I can put 'skiing'")? Or is apres-ski not the warm, romantic atmosphere I've been led to believe?

It really isn't. I lived in Colorado for four years, and skiied quite a bit, albiet on green slopes.

It's hard to meet someone when you're blasting down the slopes; it's like trying to meet people while running in a marathon.

There's the scnes in movies where people shout "single!" at the lifts, and find an attractive lift partner of the opposite sex. HAHAHAHAHA! Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. If you're in a lift line alone, you'll be partnered off with the next available "single" - which could be a member of the inappropriate sex, a 10 year old kid ... anybody, really.

The fireplace at the ski lodge - don't people meet there? Nope. Most skiiers drive up from Denver early in the morning, and drive back home when the sun begins to set, if not earlier to beat the traffic jams on I-70.

[Rilchiam]

I see. Thank you.

And also, I bet a lot of people go skiing already partnered up.

[Duke]

I wonder whether "skiing" is the sport equivalent of "likes to take long walks on the beach." After all, if a guy says they like to play golf, that conjures up "golf widow" images. If he likes football, baseball or other team sports, that either means (if watching) he'll want to watch his team every week or (if he actually plays these sports) spend hours at the bar with his teammates. Bowling is "too Midwestern rust belt." Most other sports are objectionable to some part of the population, I suppose.

But skiing...well, everybody's gone skiing at least once, or wants to. (With me, the operative word is "once.") Plus, "skiing" is associated with jet-setting, trendy lifestyles, something you can't say about bowling. And gallivanting around in the snow, then lounging about in front of the fireplace sounds romantic. The reality, as elmwood points out, is rather different, but most women don't know that.

If a guy doesn't feel like putting skiing in his profile, he can always try the old standby, "walking." Even if it's just walking from the car to the office, it's never a lie. Some men like to upgrade "walking" to "hiking," especially city types who rarely see a tree other than a ficus tree. Lastly there's the old fave "working out," which could mean anything from "I work out for two hours every day, even Christmas and New Year's," to "When I go to the mall, I like to look at the exercise equipment store."

This exercise in cynicism brought to you by Duke, single since the year 2000

[elmwood]

East side of Cleveland eh? I'm a few miles east of you.
5'11" and 140 lbs, gained 10 lbs in the past year.:)

Time for a Cleveland Dopefes!

[Eve]

well, everybody's gone skiing at least once, or wants to.

Not me, but I'm a happy spinster lady and don't have to pretend to like skiing or long walks on the beach or reading poetry in the rain while riding horseback.

[Epimetheus]

Well, not to turn this into a denial fest, but I also have no desire to ski, unless by skiing, you mean water-skiing. ;)

I don't like the cold, don't like snow, and dont like hydroplaning down a steep slope with trees and cliffs anywhere near my path.

Call me a wimp, but if it involves snow, I probably don't like it, if it involves barreling down hills with sticks stuck on my feet and a chance I will plummet off a cliff or break my neck hitting a tree, I will pass.

I like water in its other two physical states: but mostly in its liquid phase.

[Duke]

Ah, I'm just trying to channel the mindset of somebody who would put "skiing" as one of their interests even if they don't ski. Kinda like the "long walks on the beach" thing, which would be silly for someone in, say, Kansas, to put down as an interest. (Though I have to say....one of the dates I went on last year involved just that, even though I live near Niagara Falls.)

I would never put it down myself. My one experience with skiing was more like "falling down a mountain while wearing useless sticks on my feet, cursing the friend who took me along, while repeatedly planting myself face-first in the snow." Apart from bog-snorkeling, I can't think of any "sport" I'd less like to partake in.

And Eve, I commend you for being able to stand up and say that pretension is not for you. I wish I could say the same for myself. But I will probably put myself through the dating wringer again soon, buying strange women dinner, pretending to laugh at their lame jokes, making lame jokes of my own, pretending not to be hurt when they say I'm not their type after one date, moving on to the next match and starting the process again. I'm glad you've found happiness where you are, it's more important than anything else.