Things a wife won't do?

Here's the scenario. You find a woman that you like who is willing to fulfull every sexual fantasy. Obviously you are pleased that she is willing to do these things with you, whatever they may be, but do you secretly loose respect for her every time she complies? What I mean is, is there something about a girl, that will do "X" that makes her not marraige material? The question is kind of complicated so I hope that this explains the point I'm trying to make. Please ask for more details if needed and I'll do my best to make myself understood.

Hmm, let me thinkNO.

I hope not. I'd kind of like to get married some day. Please tell me I don't have to give up---well, let's not get specific. Maybe this would be a good way to aviod a man's loosing respect for his mate: She should hold out for 3 or 4 months into the relationship so that he is thuroughly convinced that she is 'marraige material'. Then she can show him what she's really made of. What do you think, guys?

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"I think it would be a great idea" Mohandas Ghandi's answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization

Why in the world would you marry a man from which you have to conceal your true personality? Being through one marriage already, my advise is to be exactly who you are around a prospective mate, because sooner or later it's going to come out. If it comes out five years and a couple of kids after you're married, you better hope your mate likes the "true you" as well as he or she liked the act you put on to catch them.

Anyone out there, male or female, who willingly engages in an activity then thinks less of the other person for doing it is a bloody hypocrite. You don't want to marry them. Trust me.

[[ Obviously you are pleased that she is willing to do these things with you, whatever they may be, but do you secretly loose respect for her every time she complies?]]

I think that most people arrive at their first sexual experiences with an inner voice that tells them they are being "dirty" when they do and enjoy things they believe their parents or someone else might be shocked about. However, if they fail to come to grips with this and grow up, choosing instead to project the "dirtiness" onto their partner, they aren't ready to be married anyway.

Good god no. I definitely want my parter to be just as twisted as I. Much more fun that way.

Science has finally figured out it is a certain food that lowers a woman’s sex drive by 75%.


It's Wedding Cake

Oh wait, I thought of something: if she bangs my best friend, she's not marriage material.

"Oh wait, I thought of something: if she bangs my best friend, she's not marriage material.
---RTA
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I'll go along with that. I think that the only thing I couldn't handle would be cheating.
Tried swapping, it's not for me.
Otherwise, I respect and enjoy an experienced partner, as long as she's also fun to hang around with.
Peace,
mangeorge


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Work like you don't need the money.....
Love like you've never been hurt.....
Dance like nobody's watching! Source???

Makes me remember the movie, "Analyze This."

The psychiatrist and DeNiro:

psy, "You have a girlfriend?"

DeNiro, "Yes."

psy, "But you're married."

DeNiro, "Yes."

psy, "You have problems with you're marriage?"

DeNiro, "No."

psy, "Then why do you have a girlfriend?"

DeNiro, "Are you kidding me! My wife kisses my children with that mouth!"



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¾È ³ç, ÁÖ µ¿ ÀÏ

Let me get this straight: YOU come up with some deviant act, your girlfriend agrees to it, and you think SHE'S unrespectable?!?!

Is this a form of passive-agressive behavior or what?

"Do this" "Okay" "HAH! You're a slut for doing that!"


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"On the edge of sleep, I awoke to a sun so bright..."

Sounds like a Modonna/Whore complex. And it's spelled lose, not loose, TM. Unless that's a play on words.

[[fantasy. Obviously you are pleased that she is willing to do these things with you, whatever they may be, but do you secretly loose respect for her every time she complies? What I mean is, is there something about a girl, that will do "X" that makes her not marraige material? ]]

I'd say that spelling automatically disqualifies you as marriage material.

Make that MAdonna. Typo got out before I could correct myself!

Material? You are looking for couch upholstery, not a wife.

Where on earth do these losers come from?

Material???? Go get a blow-up doll, asshole.

If ever that I would feel less about a woman because she did something I asked her to do, I wouldn't ask her to do it in the first place. duh.

This is akin to Groucho Marx's remark, "I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me for a member."

In fairness, the OP didn't say HE felt this way, just asked if WE did.

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Live a Lush Life
Da Chef

Hello everyone,
I already KNOW that if he suggested we do something, he SHOULD be ok with me agreeing to do it. I KNOW that I shouldn't feel ashamed of anything I do or just don't do it.
What I was looking for is a sneak peak into the male mind. I have heard just about every line and lie a man can tell to a woman, I just wanted to know, what you GUYS really thought when you found a woman who is TRULY as sexually free and expressive as you CLAIM you want them to be.
Many men will gawk and say things about what they would do if they had a porn star, stripper, etc... for a girlfriend, but if your average girlfriend can fuck like a porn star, does it secretly, deep down inside turn them off, set off an alarm, give them pause, make them wonder?
Not that I am going to change my behavior, I'm pretty happy that I can please my man. I enjoy having wild passionate sex. I LIKE that I can be a school girl, or a stripper, or a dominatrix (if I choose to take on an alternate persona) when I have sex. I am pretty confident about who I am, and just wanted to see how other people felt.
I'm so sorry if anyone was offended by the question. I didn't see how anyone could be.

Trying to thnk of a reasonable response to this question, all I could come up with was:

No. NO. HELL NO!

It's absolutely ridiculous to think that some mutually pleasurable activity, enjoyed by both partners, could somehow lessen one partner's respect for the other.

I mean, come on Monty2: think of it the other way around. This theoretical woman you describe--should she lose respect for you and decide you're not marriage material?

God, if anything, you should have more respect for her--and a helluva a lot of gratitutde.

If your boyfriend loses respect for you because of an act you two do together (an act in which he is presumably a willing participant and of which he is possibly the instigator), he is a hypocritical jerk and you're better off without him.

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President of the Vernon Dent fan club.

Back to Monty's post-it's kind of interesting that guys will date, marry, have children with a stripper, etc. and THEN have a problem with what they are doing. Then they (men) don't like it? Still, I am going with my original Madonna/Whore complex theory. Pretty soon this is going to be a Pit subject.

The kinkier the better, as long as the kinks correspond to mine. No terrible moral judgements on kinks that are different -- just a minus for compatibility if these are actually unpleasant to me.

What I was looking for is a sneak peak into the male mind. I have heard just about every line and lie a man can tell to a woman, I just
wanted to know, what you GUYS really thought when you found a woman who is TRULY as sexually free and expressive as you
CLAIM you want them to be.
Many men will gawk and say things about what they would do if they had a porn star, stripper, etc... for a girlfriend, but if your average
girlfriend can fuck like a porn star, does it secretly, deep down inside turn them off, set off an alarm, give them pause, make them
wonder?

Maybe it's a contrasts thing...in my case, it became apparent early on that I wasn't a likely candidate to play the experienced naughty seducer to my women associates' innocent naif, but I do recall that during my virgin years I daydreamed about becoming the boyfriend of an otherwise jaded, very experienced woman who would like it that I hadn't done everything she had. And yes, I certainly would have respected her for her experience and sexual joie de vivre (did I spell that right?)



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Designated Optional Signature at Bottom of Post

Apart from the madonna/whore complex, there is also the "socially presentable" issue. Maybe you could love and respect a stripper, porn star or whatever, but never marry her because of what people might think. That would make her "not marriage material".

Another issue is that you might not want such a woman to have and raise your children. Even if what you do in bed is perfectly okay with both of you and there is no moral problem or anything, you may not want to have your kids grow up to the same lifestyle. For what it's worth, I sure don't want my kids to be just like me, because I have more than enough personal faults and problems (like spending hours on the internet instead of working :-)) that I'd like to spare them. Then again, perhaps I don't really respect myself. Maybe I am not marriage material...

Holger

I think you need to be careful about stereotyping "the male mind." I am sure that there are people out there who want others to perform certain acts, and then revile them for it. I think that's sicko behaviour, and it's certainly a small minority, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

::: leaping up to soapbox ::: Hey, one of the big problems today, IMHO, is the way that so many women talk about "all men", whether in conversation or in jokes. Stereotyping. Bah.

There's a fine point here:

Personally, though I think it goes for most men, I wouldn't be suggesting any activity that would make me disrespect my partner who did it with me and therefore make marriage inadvisable.

However, there are certainly things that a woman might initiate that I might not be comfortable with (e.g. partner swapping). If said partner was intent on having those things as part of her sex life, then I think we'd be incompatible as spouses. I'll even take it a step further and say that with some (e.g. infidelity again) it would be a big red flag for a woman even to suggest them...

So that's my take: if _I_ suggest it, I'm okay with it, QED. But there are things that would make me say "no" to marriage with that person, though I'd not be the one initiating them. And that goes even beyond the realm of sexuality. If a woman I was dating suggested we go out and steal a car for laughs or shoot up heroin, I'd probably be thinking "this isn't the one for me" too.

Monty2 - you are asking if a man would ask a woman to engage in an activity which he would disrespect her for doing. Fortunately, not all men are like this, unfortunately, there are some out there. If a man does this, he probably subconciously thinks there is something wrong with what he is requesting, and rather than dealing with that, he will project his feelings on to his partner. So if a man does this, it's him that ain't marriage material! Avoid him like the plague.

I know a man who likes to see strippers. I don't have any problem with that. However, he got married and would not ask his wife to "strip" for him. Not that she refused, he never gave her a chance. He became obsessed with stripping and escalated his behavior. Last I heard, he was soliciting prostitutes. He was risking his life, and his wife's, because there were things he wanted sexually that he could not or would not ask his wife to do.



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Mastery is not perfection but a journey, and the true master must be willing to try and fail and try again

Good point, Z, but the question is premised on the fact that he WILL ask, so we're moving into a new realm here. That is the question of how to deal with it if there are things a man wants that he DOESN'T ask for and how to deal with that...

Or, also a possibility, the situation where we have things he does ask for that the woman is uncomfortable with/won't do. To me, that's simply the reverse of the situation I gave above and indicates a warning flag of incompatibility. Big problem if it happens AFTER the marriage rather than just in a "is this the one" scenario...

This question did remind me of something I saw in Ann Landers years ago that burned me up... a man submitted a list of "warning signs" that he'd made up for his sons so they'd know that their girlfriend was not relationship material and he thought Ann should print them for the benefit of other men. Among these signs were "if she can take her pantyhose off in less than 10 seconds, you know she's had a lot of 'practice.'"

For the love of God, that list was stupid. All of the scenarios came down to, if you propose something sexual and she says "yes," she's a slut and you shouldn't have a relationship with her. But what about the guy who proposed these things to begin with?? And the pantyhose statement really got my goat. If he's dating a professional woman who's expected to wear pantyhose every day of her life, she will have had plenty of "practice" taking it off, regardless of whether she engages in a sexual activity immediately afterwards.

I can't remember what Ann's response was, but I'd like to think that even she thought the guy was a toad. I'm not really going anywhere with this, I just thought I'd toss it out.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

Rereading my post, I realized I slipped from plural to singular, making it look like there were many sons sharing one girl. No, I meant the man made a list so that his sons would know whether their girlfriends were relationship material. No need to make him seem even more hypocritical than necessary by suggesting that he didn't see anything wrong with his sons, only the girl, if they engaged in one big family gang-bang.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

Didn't we have a similiar topic on the old AOL board? JWB or whoever was trying to say it was okay to try to convince your girlfriend to have sex with you, but then dump her if she said yes. This was about religious morality, so this person wasn't going to actually sleep with his girlfriend, just 'test' her with a mind game. Sick.

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Neil

". . .they could as easily have been carrying euphoniums and wearing war paint for all the notice their quarry would have taken of them."
-Douglas Adams, "Life, the Universe, and Everything"

Taking the original post at face value- if you propose something to your SO, she goes along with it exactly as you had planned, and you lose respect for her because of it then you're somewhere between a hypocrite and an idiot. However,what if it doesn't turn out like you expected? You ask him/her to do something and he/she does a warped version of what you had envisioned?

I'm keeping this purposefully vague to prevent self-incrimination.

Mojo:

However,what if it doesn't turn out like you expected?

Nothing "wrong" with that situation. Just like asking someone to try some new food and they try it but hate it.

On the other hand, if you kind of sounds like you're also talking about a situation where you ask someone to do something and they think badly of *you* for requesting it.

In that case, I wouldn't say they were hypocritical. It might just be something they really don't like. However, it might be a really big deal to them. There's not much you can do about it - just chalk it up to incompatibility.

Sometimes people's kinks just aren't the same.

For the love of God, that list was stupid. All of the scenarios came down to, if you propose something sexual and she says "yes," she's a slut and you shouldn't have a relationship with her. But what about the guy who proposed these things to begin
with??

It doesn't make a lot of sense but unfortunately this attitude is rather prevalent amongst men. Not all (I consider myself an exception, thank you very much!). But the tendency of a man to think less of a woman for having sex on the first date--even if he's the one she had sex with--definitely exists even amongst men with otherwise relatively advanced views on womanhood. I think logically men may realise the hypocrisy of it but it's difficult to get rid of a lifetime of brainwashing.

Before you flame me please remember I do not fall into this category, in fact my most serious relationship ever started off as a one-night-stand and not once did I think less of her for it. I don't condone or support that attitude, I just understand where it comes from.

It seems many here think such an attitude (thinking less of her for doing dirty deeds) is common. I can't imagine that kind of thinking and believe they must be a small group. I wouldn't marry her if she wasn't sexualy compatible--and in my case that compatibility is pretty, joyfully wicked.

I suggest the marriage vows be changed to:

Will thou doest it outside, in the rain, under the sun, or on a train? Will you promise to do it like a dog, go down South, and let him come in your mouth? Will you sir, crawl on the floor, lick her till she moans no more? Do you agree till death do you part to respect each other with whips and chains? I now pronounce you husband and wife. He is your husband, she is your wife, don't be shy, may all your fantasies be fufilled before you die. Amen.

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There is no course of life so weak and sottish as that which is managed by order, method, and discipline. -Montaigne

I'm sorry and I apologize for my computers ignorance. No, I am not drunk--two glasses of wine WITH dinner, max.

Yeah, a lot of jerk-guys will think less of you if you do what they ask. These are the type of men that think of sex in terms of a power-game, along the lines of "I win if I get her to do it, she wins if she puts me off and still keeps me interested."
This attitude fosters date-rape, frigidity, dishonesty, etc.
I guess if you're both into those games, have fun. But I'd rather have a partner to make love to, not to win against.
-Quadell

A couple of quick comments on this interesting thread, which has made me want to start a couple of surveys in the great debate group. Check there if you're interested.

This is akin to Groucho Marx's remark, "I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me for a member."
Actually, Sigmund Freud coined it way earlier.

But the tendency of a man to think less of a woman for having sex on the first date--even if he's the one she had sex with--definitely exists even amongst men with otherwise relatively advanced views on womanhood.

But then again, and fess up now girls, don't women expect men to make at least a half-hearted attempt of a pass on the first date? One that they can turn down, without embarrassment? I've got female friends who come home after a date where the guy did not make a hint of a pass or suggestion, out of politeness, as it turned out. They complain and ask what's wrong with the guy.

CT



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When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout

I did NOT do that. I just hit "submit reply" and my damned browser sat here chuging for about ten minutes, before it went through *sigh*

Pooch,
Loved your wedding vows!!! :)
Do you mind if I use them at my wedding?

I especially liked that licking part. ;)

I'm sorry and I apologize for my computers ignorance. No, I am not drunk--two glasses of wine WITH dinner, max.

I did NOT do that. I just hit "submit reply" and my damned browser sat here chuging for about ten minutes, before it went through *sigh*

Okay, I removed all the extra posts. And no, it's not your fault, the server burped, I guess.

The Reader tech people tell us the server will be replaced, probably this week. So . . .it'll probably get worse, and THEN get better. Hang on, hold on, sorry for the hassle.

your humble TubaDiva/SDStaffDiv
for the Straight Dope

But then again, and fess up now girls, don't women expect men to make at least a half-hearted attempt of a pass on the first date? One that they can turn down, without embarrassment? I've got female friends who come home after a date where the guy did not make a hint of a pass or suggestion, out of politeness, as it turned out. They complain and ask what's wrong with the guy.

Dating is difficult . . . people get nervous, they want to make a good impression, they're afraid of being hurt and/or rejected. The footwork gets tricky at times, and probably nowhere as much as it is at the end of the first date.

I can't speak for all women, but speaking for myself, I want to know that my friend on the other side of the date had a good time . . . that he finds me interesting . . .attractive . . . alluring . . . unless it's obvious that we're not tracking at all and then I just want it to be OVER.

That does not mean I want him all over me, but if he is interested, a sign of that interest would be useful. And vice versa; if this is someone I want to go out with again, he'll know it. If the guy is being oblique, it's hard to know WHAT's going on, and I tend to think the worst.

And let's be real here, there is some double standard that's, well, standard. A lot of men would be thrilled to find a woman that was experienced, friendly, open . . . but at some point in the fun they start asking themselves "if she's doing this with me, a guy she hardly knows, what (or who) else has she been doing?" At that point, the woman gets relegated to the "call her up for a good time" list and that's the end of anything serious. Usually the woman has no clue, because he told her how open minded and experienced HE was.

Here's a sample conversation between my sister and her husband, a few months after they were married . . . (as related by my sister, way after the fact):

HIM: "Ooh, honey, that's so . . . amazing. . . you're so good . . . HEY! WHO TAUGHT YOU THAT?"

MY SISTER: "Um, I . . . read it in a book! Yeah, that's right! Saw it in a book!"

At that point they had lived together for a few years and were married already, so what was the deal?

Is this one of life's little mysteries? Just the way guys are? How does a woman who has not spent her life before she went out with this guy in a convent cope with this?

Just curious.

your humble TubaDiva
a casualty of the dating wars

Tub, ITA.

TubaDiva:
Just the way guys are? How does a woman who has not spent her life before she went out with this guy in a convent cope with this?
You know, this is not so strange. For many men, it's a need to be able to bragg about having had many partners. They see it as a competition.
At the same time, they are afraid of being compared with other men, a feeling of not being adequate for the job.
So ideally, they want to line up a long row of virgins, to up the number, but not being compared.
I for one have always been grateful for the girl to learn from others, but have to confess to not really respecting a woman who goes to bed with me the first night. Then again, I don't respect myself either and it usually leave me feeling empty....

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When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout

[AHunter3]

I'm saving this thread from pruning because it has relevance for currently active threads.

::bump::