"The Apprentice" 2/12 [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

twickster

02-12-2004, 09:16 PM

Wow, I didn't see that one coming. The way he was ripping into Omarosa, I thought for sure she was outta there.

It's clear she won't be the final winner, though. Trump just plain doesn't like her.

OTOH, blaming her leadership for the Isaac Mizrahi debacle seems a bit unfair -- since she had zero idea who he was, how could she pick the best person to approach him? (Hm, maybe that's the point?)

Does anyone recall what the various things went for? $6K for Regis, $10K for Russell Simmons... what were the others?

Plus, WTF was that final item up for bid?

Damn, I'm enjoying this show far more than I expected to...

Dewey Cheatem Undhow

02-12-2004, 09:39 PM

Yeah, I was surprised by that too. And not only Trump -- both of Trump's lieutenants wanted to see Omarosa go, which surprised the hell out of me.

I wonder: do you think Trump was serious about not firing Jessie if she hadn't been such a doormat? 'Cause she did suck at negotiating.

I like that Trump doesn't suffer fake pleasantries lightly.

Diogenes the Cynic

02-12-2004, 10:09 PM

I agree with Dewey that Troy really shined this time. He totally saved that Mizrahi negotiation and the Russel Simmons one as well. I thought the wrong team won and that the difference was just the luck of the draw in celebrities. (who'd have thought Carson Daley would draw that much interest? I wouldn't walk down to my basement to see Carson Daley. I imagine it was the event as much as anything that drew the interest)

Tammy completely sucked and really seemed to irritate Daley with her Tiger Woods fixation. She also sucked with Regis and came off like a bitch when she wouldn't touch the "Champions" sign. She deserved to get canned as much as anyone.

having said that, Jessie's patronizing pitch to Mizrahi. her obvious desire to see Omarosa (or whatever the hell her name is) fail and get fired, plus her over all phoniness (remember how she backstabbed whatsherface last week) made her a worthwhile firee.

I hope someone on Trump's team noticed Troy's performance this week. It was amazing how he managed to connect with the celebrities in such guileless ways.

Dewey Cheatem Undhow

02-12-2004, 10:44 PM

I agree with Dewey :eek:

*has heart attack*

*keels over dead*

Catsmeow

02-12-2004, 10:58 PM

OTOH, blaming her leadership for the Isaac Mizrahi debacle seems a bit unfair -- since she had zero idea who he was, how could she pick the best person to approach him? (Hm, maybe that's the point?)

My opinion on this is, if you don't know the celeb you're going to be hitting up for a favor DO SOME RESEARCH! I mean I googled him and the first hit, on Oxygen, gave a very nice biography on him, and several video clips. Just a bit of research could have saved embarassment in the long run.

plus her over all phoniness (remember how she backstabbed whatsherface last week) made her a worthwhile firee.

I think this is part of the reason Trump fired her. He knew she backstabbed her "friend" last week and he's already shown that he doesn't like THAT behavior either.

Ah well. Just my 2 cents.

jehovah68

02-13-2004, 12:10 AM

I hope someone on Trump's team noticed Troy's performance this week.
Wasn't Trump's lieutenant present during the Mizrahi pitch? I also imagine that as executive producer of the show, Trump is privy to the dailies, meaning that he may have already seen some of their performances.
Also, don't forget Troy's shrewd play with the queer eye group, removing his belt, knowing full well what their reaction would be.
I don't see Omarosa, Tammy, Kwame, or Heidi lasting to the end.

Interrobang!?

02-13-2004, 12:21 AM

Tammy is lucky that her teammates are phenomenally talented. She should've been fired about three boardroom meetings ago. Hell, Omarosa should've asked for her in this boardroom, because Tammy was by far the worst person at this task.

Omarosa hasn't figured out that being strong -- which she is -- and being needlessly cruel and bitchy -- which she also is -- aren't the same thing. They may be related to each other sometimes, but they're not the conjoined twins she's turned them into in her life.

Also, what's with her passive-aggressive refusal to give her teammates a frickin' phone number? Either say no and end the discussion or let them have the number. Don't hang up in the middle of the phone call. Talk about no class. (And it takes a particular brand of classlessness to comment publicly on someone else's lack of class, no matter how true it might be.)

She's lucky that Jessie is as unseasoned as she is. Jessie's bad at reading people -- she should've figured out that Mizrahi wanted her to talk faster, especially when he told her so point blank -- and she's too Wisconsin nice. If anything, I thought her blunt assessment of Kristi last week was a sign that she might be more assertive in the boardroom than it seems she was capable of being.

If she'd defended herself better -- or at all -- in the boardroom I might not be missing my eye candy. I liked her quite a bit, frankly, but she really did deserve to be fired this time.

SmackFu

02-13-2004, 12:55 AM

Thank God he fired Jessie. Everything she said drove me up the wall. It was like that Freaky Friday movie, with a 10 year old girl in a grown-up body.

And how hard is it to pronounce Mizrahi?

It was interesting that Rocco's thing went for the most, mainly IMO because they talked him into giving an actual valuable prize. Kind of proof that they could overcome crummy celebs with good ideas, which makes it more fair.

pilot141

02-13-2004, 01:41 AM

Tammy completely sucked and really seemed to irritate Daley with her Tiger Woods fixation. She also sucked with Regis and came off like a bitch when she wouldn't touch the "Champions" sign.

Oh, I thought I was the only one that noticed this!

Why was Tammy even allowed to continue negotiating with the celebrities? "So, let's go back to the golf thing, because I don't think you're a big enough star. Who else can you bring to the table?"

"So you, and Phil, and Regis would have this great weekend...."

"We're thinking about a weekend in a chateau in France."
"Who will pay the expenses?"
"Ummm, well of course a donation from YOU will help, but, ummmm, I'm just really talking out of my ass here so I have no idea."

So, are the players not allowed to talk about what goes on in the boardroom? Jessie gave her "doormat" advice last week and look how well it worked out. Didn't anyone tell her that Trump can't stand people that don't stand up for themselves? She was a doormat herself and that helped her get fired (along with her grade-school negotiating).

My overall impressions:

Troy can turn any situation around quickly and effortlessly.

Omorosa is a cold, self-centered classless bitch.

Tammy doesn't know when to shut her mouth and will pay for it soon.

The Nick and Amy "romance"? Please. They were drunk and celebrating their victory. Let them win and get likkered up a few more times and you might have something.

The mixing of the teams was good for balancing (8 vs 4 is just unfair), but also the two tasks since the mixing have left almost no room for the "shaking of the moneymakers". Heidi is now out of her element.

amarinth

02-13-2004, 02:47 AM

I agree with Dewey that Troy really shined this time. He totally saved that Mizrahi negotiation and the Russel Simmons one as well. I thought the wrong team won and that the difference was just the luck of the draw in celebrities. (who'd have thought Carson Daley would draw that much interest? I wouldn't walk down to my basement to see Carson Daley. I imagine it was the event as much as anything that drew the interest)But I knew who he was...which was true of all of Versacorp's celebrities (except the Third Watch guy, and with that, the obvious idea is "Walk on Role," which is going to be bid on.) Plus, I know that someone with teenage daughters and too much money will bid on Carson Daley.

With Protoge, I just recognized the Queer Eye guys and Isaac Mizrahi - everyone else was "and you are?" "and what could you possibly have that I want?"

Again, the task seems unbalanced which doesn't seem like a good way to figure out who's the best/worst. (And as bad as Jesse was, Tammy was by far the worst negotiator of the evening.) Heidi did well when we saw her work, Omarosa did ok when she was the "pilot" (obscure fact about Hilary's campaign), and Troy was amazing - just flat out saved them from total humiliation. Kwame, from what we saw, was the other person who belonged in the boardroom.

twickster

02-13-2004, 06:57 AM

So, are we ready to predict a final winner?

And would that prediction be ... Troy? [/Church Lady voice]

ParentalAdvisory

02-13-2004, 07:36 AM

Robin, for sure.

twickster

02-13-2004, 09:17 AM

And how hard is it to pronounce Mizrahi?

Especially for someone named "Omarosa," for crying out loud.

mcms_cricket

02-13-2004, 10:41 AM

It seems to me that that the boardroom folk (Trump and the other two) seemed to really mention the fact that Omarosa is/was a good PM, had good leadership potential, etc. (even her teammates that didn't like her said that they respected that), but she was rude as hell - to her face they kept coming back to the rude attitude. Seems to me they often do this with the person they don't fire (but that everyone thinks they are going to fire): they kind of yell at the person and tell them what they're doing wrong and than sit back to see what happens the next week.

I think that's another test - can the apprentice accept criticism and modify behavior. Sam didn't really pay attention to anything he was told in the boardroom and he got fired the next time. If Omarosa exhibits some serious changes in the way she interacts with the others -I bet she stays (assuming she ends up in the boardroom again right away). If she exhibits the same "rude" behavior - she's out. Trump kept saying he saw something in Sam - and seemed to be giving him tips - but Sam didn't really act on any of that because he thought he was doing such a good job.

Just a badly-articulated thought...

twickster

02-13-2004, 10:55 AM

Just a badly-articulated thought...

Not badly articulated at all! I think you've really hit on something that had gone completely over my head. Who'da thunk, but it seems like Trump is really taking this far more seriously than I would have expected, and is, in fact, trying to groom people as part of the process, and not just destroy them.

Hmm, I want to meditate on this some more -- but what a great insight, mcms_cricket!

Sampiro

02-13-2004, 12:36 PM

I was floored that an evening of Disco Bowling with the Fab Five (all of them funny and talented and hotter than glowing horseshoes at the moment) went for $2000 less than an evening with no-talent dumbass oxygen thief Carson Daly (who if his career were CHICAGO would be singing "You can like the life you're livin'..." along about now). I can only assume that Daly planted somebody in the audience.

jehovah68

02-13-2004, 01:05 PM

Oxygen thief, heh heh, good one. Last night on his show, Carson called the girl who won, who's from Ridgewood, NJ. This is a town that comes right out of the John Hughes canon. She came off as quite the spoiled brat. She said that what made her happiest about the whole thing was how jealous everybody was. After the phone call, CD commented that had he known how much the winning bid actually was, he might have actually introduced her to more than 2(!) people.
BTW Sampiro, your sig, which I love, was delivered by Superintendant Chalmers.

KarmaComa

02-13-2004, 01:23 PM

Point: Does anyone else think that Heidi looks like a no-class crackhead with a bad makeover? Other than Omarosa, that is?

I am really really surprised at how much I like the show...

mcms_cricket

02-13-2004, 01:41 PM

Point: Does anyone else think that Heidi looks like a no-class crackhead with a bad makeover? Other than Omarosa, that is?

I am really really surprised at how much I like the show...

ME, ME! It's unfair of me, but I'm so turned off by the way she dresses, acts and looks that I'm having a hard time trying to look past that and figure out if she reallyl is a "professional businesswoman" with the brains to make it. She bugs me. Omarosa should not have said what she did (it certainly wasn't professional, no doubt about that), but I can't say she was wrong.

I like this show a lot more than I thought I would, too - though it certainly makes for a long night of TV since I'm a Survivor addict as well.

ParentalAdvisory

02-13-2004, 01:49 PM

Mal Adroit

02-13-2004, 02:19 PM

So, are we ready to predict a final winner?

And would that prediction be ... Troy? [/Church Lady voice]

I predict Troy will make it down to the last 2 or 3; but there will be some major politics and weasel-like behavior at that point, and it remains to be seen whether he's cutthroat enough to navigate that.

Jessie- Despite the justice and sweet irony of getting canned for the very thing the girl she dicked over last week did--not speaking up for yourself-- I don't believe she deserved to go this week. Yes, she wasn't a polished negotiator; but who should have recognized that and refrained from dropping her in front of such a witty and dry cosmopolitanite as Issac Mizrahi? (By the way, she wasn't "talking down" to the man- that's just how she talks!) The answer is the team leader, Omarosa, who, as I predicted, contributed ZERO as a group leader and only existed to belittle others' efforts. She even tried to hold back her team's progress by refusing to give Kwame and Jessie that phone number, for the simple reason that she was miffed they thought of something she didn't and was afraid of looking bad. Omarosa, like Sam, is good television, and watching her come-uppance is going to be sweeter than candy. Trump just loathes her at this point.

Tammy is going to embarrass herself even worse than she did in last night's episode and go down in an unbelievable fireball.

Kwame's and Katrina's luck seem to be holding out as they continue to perfect their technique of treading water, making no visible contribution while others crash and burn all around them.

Interesting thing about Trump- he's gone against his advisors' recommendations several times now, and while someone suggested he just wants to hold onto the crazies longer so people will watch, I think it's more than that. He seems to form a general idea in his of what he's going to do but doesn't make a final decision on who's going until he talks to all three people one final time. And the pattern seems to be that, all he wants from you is to hear that you think you're worthy and/or have learned from your mistakes. Jason couldn't admit he'd made a mistake; Kristi couldn't stand up for herself; Jessie also couldn't stand up for herself in the sense that she refused to be honest about Omarosa. All three of them would still be in contention if they'd simply been more honest and/or self-aware.

Interrobang!?

02-13-2004, 03:43 PM

Jessie- Despite the justice and sweet irony of getting canned for the very thing the girl she dicked over last week did--not speaking up for yourself-- I don't believe she deserved to go this week. What surprises me most about Jessie in the boardroom is that last week, when Trump asked her directly who was responsible for the team's loss, she didn't hesitate to name Kristi. Backstabbing? Maybe. But blunt and honest -- maybe even too blunt. So I was surprised to see her insist, when asked directly, that she really did like Omarosa, when that's so obviously not true. Trump knew it, we knew it, Omarosa knew it, and even Jessie knew it. (By the way, she wasn't "talking down" to the man- that's just how she talks!) I agree, but there's no way for Mizrahi to have known that, and he's the one they needed to impress. Tammy is going to embarrass herself even worse than she did in last night's episode and go down in an unbelievable fireball. Well, as was pointed out last night, she's never been team leader, which I think means it's her turn next week. That should be fun. Kwame's and Katrina's luck seem to be holding out Why wasn't Kwame called into the boardroom instead of Heidi? His presentation to Russell Simmons was almost as bad as Jessie's to Mizrahi. Troy bailed 'em both out. He didn't deserve to be fired, but he deserved a few minutes worrying about it.
All three of them would still be in contention if they'd simply been more honest and/or self-aware. I think some of them are still in a Survivor-style mindset, worrying more about what their teammates think of them than what Trump does. (Jessie, though, I think is just basically nice, and naive. Very 21-year-old Wisconsin girl.) Here, it's good to take some heat and show you can handle it, bad to try coasting along in the background for too long.

I think it's funny that Omarosa boasts of the mad verbal skillz that almost got her fired last night. There was no reason for her to be as rude about Heidi and Jessie in the boardroom as she was, and she wasn't politic enough to realize that. I think she was in more jeopardy after she spoke than before, and she's lucky that Jessie's verbal defense skills are even less impressive.

Mal Adroit

02-13-2004, 04:03 PM

We are on the same wavelength, interrobang. Interesting point you make about Jessie's inconsistent bluntness.

Shayna

02-13-2004, 10:06 PM

And how hard is it to pronounce Mizrahi? Her inability to learn how to properly pronounce his name was extremely rude and unprofessional.

But I found it somewhat hypocritical for them to call call her on that, when Trump himself couldn't properly pronounce Elizabeth Glaser's name. It's pronounced Glazer, not Glazier, which is what he kept calling her.

Jessie was as good a choice as anyone this week, but Omarosa, Heidi and Tammy all suck, too.

Duderdude2

02-14-2004, 01:04 AM

Duderdude2

02-14-2004, 01:05 AM

But I found it somewhat hypocritical for them to call call her on that, when Trump himself couldn't properly pronounce Elizabeth Glaser's name.

Trump wasn't approaching Elizabeth in regards to a business proposition.

Shayna

02-14-2004, 01:53 AM

Trump wasn't approaching Elizabeth in regards to a business proposition.No, he was claiming to be a close, personal friend and promoting her foundation on national television. I wonder how he got to be such a close, personal friend who supports her foundation if he's never approached her in regards to a business proposition.

Diogenes the Cynic

02-14-2004, 02:01 AM

Elizabeth Glazer died in 1994. The foundation is named after her but she's not complaining about any mispronunciations of her name.

Diogenes the Cynic

02-14-2004, 02:02 AM

Glaser, I mean. Not Glazer.

Sampiro

02-14-2004, 02:15 AM

On all of his talk show appearances to promote the show, Trump has constantly claimed that all of the contestants are "brilliant" and "geniuses" with "IQs in the 200 range" (actual claim). Is it just me, or is anybody else underwhelmed by their intelligence and, most especially, by their creativity (or lack of)?

The Planet Hollywood challenge: the best the male genii could come up with was giving out coupons and ersatz celebrity autographs? And the best the female genii could come up with was to rip off Hooters and to violate NY liquor laws by drinking while on duty? I'd have taken the seed money and had a movie trivia contest or somehow done something to both accentuate the restaurant's theme AND give the public an incentive to come inside other than overpriced burgers and a glass encased Wilford Brimley speedo.

The Flea Market debacle- T shirts? For Gawd's sake you're in NYC, the wholesale capital of the UNIVERSE, and you can't do better than discount T-shirts? And that was brilliant compared to the cheap Asian crap. How about one of a kind items- rent a great digi-cam and a commercial printer for the day and make personalized T-shirts or something... anything.

Celebrity Auction- nobody denies that pediatric AIDS is a worthy charity, but do you really think Regis Philbin (a man not known for his calm disposition anyway) is going to take a cruise with a stranger? I'm probably a much nicer guy than he is and I sure as hell wouldn't. And Disco Bowling is the best you can think of for the Fab Five? While I know they don't have the time and the budget to give somebody a make-over, how about a "the Fab Five will drop in on your party" package? The Hampton's crowd would be falling over themselves to land a coup like that. (OTOH, "take a mud bath with Kyan" would have been a package that I'd have maxed out every credit card I own or could "find" to place a bid on.)

I'm not sure what their brilliance is, but it ain't in ingenuity.

Shayna

02-14-2004, 02:16 AM

Elizabeth Glazer died in 1994. The foundation is named after her but she's not complaining about any mispronunciations of her name.Right. And who said she was complaining? I said it came off as hypocritical to chastise someone for mispronouncing someone's name, then do so yourself, repeatedly. You're certainly free to disagree. But I cringed every time he mispronounced her name out of one side of his mouth, while claiming to have been such close friends with her out of the other, and then making a big deal out of Omarosa struggling to get Mizrahi right, which is a much more unusual name than Glaser. Not to mention, she wasn't close, personal friends with the man. But whatever. I was just posting an observation and expressing how it came across to me as a viewer.

And for the record, the foundation isn't merely named for her; she was one of the co-founders back in 1988 when she learned that she, her daughter and one of her sons were all HIV+.

Duderdude2

02-14-2004, 02:16 AM

No, he was claiming to be a close, personal friend and promoting her foundation on national television. I wonder how he got to be such a close, personal friend who supports her foundation if he's never approached her in regards to a business proposition.

Oops, haha. I was under the impression Elizabeth Glaser was a contestant on the show (I've never been good with names), which would explain my now nullified stance on the situation.

Sampiro

02-14-2004, 02:53 AM

I'm guessing everybody's familiar, but just in case: if you're wondering who Elizabeth Glaser was, she was the wife of Paul Michael Glaser (http://imdb.com/name/nm0001274/) (best known as Perchik from Fiddler on the Roof, unless you're straight, in which case he was the original Starsky (http://imdb.com/title/tt0072567/)). Elizabeth was one of the earliest people to contract HIV, becoming infected during a blood transfusion while pregnant with her daughter Ariel in 1981. She learned she had the disease while pregnant with her son Jake three years later. Ariel died in 1988; Elizabeth became a major crusader for AIDS funding (and a face to point to and say "IT'S NOT JUST A GAY DISEASE!" before dying herself in 1994. Her son was born HIV+ but, thanks in large part to his mother's work to raise funds and awareness, is alive and well. (Paul Michael Glaser, 60, never contracted the disease; he remarried a few years after Elizabeth's death and has a daughter with his current wife.)

bbonden

02-14-2004, 12:23 PM

Argh, the show is entertaining, but once again the challenge was unbalanced (though not as bad as when the teams were of opposing sexes). There is no way you can accurately gauge a celebrity's worth and try to provide both teams with an equivalent amount of celebrity status; especially when most of the auctions boiled down to either a day or night with said celebrity. It's clear that the producers will go to any length to attract an audience; equality is not a component the producers wish to explore.

Business circumstances are unbalanced. Make do with what your got.

Besides, the prize of the day was the Chef Rocco dinner, right? There, it wasn't the name of the celeb that brought in the bucks but the size and type of the donation -- dinner for 50 (!!!).

Duderdude2

02-14-2004, 01:22 PM

Business circumstances are unbalanced. Make do with what your got.

In the real world, your advice would be quite applicable; but under these incredibly artificial situations, where the team members had no choice of what “company” they work for, it’s a flawed process. Why do you think the women won four challenges in a row? Because they “made do with what [they have]”, which boiled down to them flaunting their breasts at every possible moment. The unbalanced challenges the show purveyed allowed the women to pursue tactics most companies would gawk at.

Last night’s challenge was no exception (though it obviously didn’t cater to any particular sex). While you may be correct in that the name of the celebrity perhaps didn’t sway the bidding substantially (not that I necessarily agree); the celebrities willingness to provide for this auction may have. Just because Chef Rocco provided a dinner for 50 doesn’t mean all the celebrities would have been as generous with their offers (the propositions provided by the teams are irrelevant to my point). The bidders, also have their own biases towards particular celebrities, which is why the Fab 5 earned more than Regis (that one girl who bid 10,000 on Carson Daly was insane - in a crazy sense, not an actual mental disorder).

Da' Dude

02-18-2004, 01:22 PM

I don't know. I think Jessie was someone that would have walked through fucking walls for Trump. She would have loved him, feared him, and respected him - and that's a powerful combination (love is fickle, fear is permanent!).

She's young and 'Wisconsin nice', but she was also a big sponge, soaking up everything around her. (and she was also easy on the eyes.) She wouldn't be as strong out of the box (as it were) like a Troy or Nick, but she would have learned quickly, and would have been an extremely loyal foot soldier for Trump.

Omarosa - oh Jesus Fucking Christ on a pogo stick this women annoys me to no end. I lost what little vestige of respect I had for her when she started tossing around the 'race card' for someone using the 'calling the kettle black' proverb. I can not believe she is still around.

My assumption is that the show is trimming the weaker personalities; later shows with a bunch of Type As going ballistic on each other will be a ball to watch! Sam was definitely not a weak personality but he was too much of a nutcase to keep on. I definitely agree with mcms_cricket's insight.