You sneaky little Jehovah's Witness bastard!

[Seven]

The direcTV guy came by today to install our new DVR. A pretty simple install as I already installed the telephone line, and the amp/switch box is about 5 feet below where the extra line needs to run.

So all the installer needs to do is give us the new DVR receiver, run one coax line, plug it all in and leave.

BUT NOOOOOOOO!

First, he shows up two hours late. I expected as much so I've already resided myself to working on some projects around the house.

After arriving, he spends a fair amount of time apparently doing "prep work". I don't have a clue what he was doing to tell you the truth. But he spent a good 45 minutes doing it. He then decides to install new face plates on our coax and telephone jacks behind the television. Granted, if he's going to install an extra line, might as well make it tidy by giving us a dual coax face plate.

This is when the install turns sour.

First, he says he has to go to another install and he will return to finish mine in a few hours. He did say he would get our system going with the one line before he leaves. When he returns he'll run the second line and finish up.

Right at the moment he's got his ass hanging out from behind the television he professes to me he's a Jehovah's Witness. He proceeds to inform me all about his church, his beliefs and how his life improved after converting to Jehovah's Witnessism He says had pretty much written off getting married, but apparently thanks to Jehovah's Witnessism, he's found true love. By golly that god fellow is a swell chap.

I'm not really in the mood to get into a big debate about religion. I'm not religious in the least and I find Christians attempting to convert me extremely rude. So, I excused myself to continue working on my project in the other room. In a few minutes Jehovah Bob calls me back to ask a question about our DirecTV service, which was just a sneaky ploy to get me back into the room for more of his Jehovah's Witnessing. He asks me a very direct question "How do you feel about this stuff?" -meaning religion, church, etc. I tell his straight out "I have read the bible, I've read about various Christian religions, and have decided I do not and can not subscribe to Christianity." I was foolishly thinking this would clue him into getting back to my install and away from Jehovah's Witnessing. WRONG!

He starts back in. Once again I tell him I do not subscribe to ANY religion and excuse myself.

Moments later I'm called back into the room by Jehovah Bob and asked another stupid question about my service, which, of course, moves very quickly towards religion. By this time my daughter has returned home from school and is doing her homework at the kitchen table (within earshot of this fucking maniac). She keeps looking at me with a puzzled look on her face. In a few minutes she gets up and hands me a note (she's 12 and passing notes are very important to a 12 year old). The note reads:

"Is he supposed to be doing his job or talking about religion?"

I almost died. What a funny kid.

Anyway.. It is now two hours past when he said he'd be back -currently 8:00 pm. If I knew DirecTV was going to expect me to waste all day with what the installer has done so far, I could have done it myself in 5 minutes. Let's see. Unplug old receiver, plug in new receiver, attach phone line. DONE!

Look. When a Jehovah's Witness comes to my door Watchtower in hand, I have the option of letting them in to talk religion. You sneaky little fuckers have no business Jehovah's Witnessing to me while doing a hired service in my house. I tried to be very polite and explain I did not witness Jehovah, Jesus, Andrew, Bob or anyone else. The only thing I ever witnessed was someone getting run over by a car, but that's different. You sneaky little fuckers stay out of my house unless invited to enter to witness. If you enter to fix my toilet, install the DVR, paint my living room or clean my carpet, keep your fucking mouth shut about your religion! It is rude, unprofessional and quite frankly pissing me off.

I don't hangout at your church talking about my house so don't come to my house and talk about your church.

I've now called DirecTV and complained about their in-house Jehovah's Witness religious services and their half-assed install procedures. I told them if this fucknut comes back and Jehovah's Witnesses to me I'm dumping their service on the spot.

[hajario]

You were way more polite than I would have been. It's a major no-no for a JW to witness in the workplace. It's considered theft of your employers time. If I were you I'd call the nearest JW church and complain also so he can get a refresher course.

Haj

[Seven]

That's a good idea Haj.

I just called DirecTV back to inquire if I should expect shitdick religion boy back to finish the job tonight. They said the local office is now closed and they had no idea. After I let out a big sigh, they offered to reduce my HBO to only $2 per month for the next six months.

It was a nice offer but it still doesn't fix the point my television stand is in the middle of the living room, cables and drill dust are by the wall, and everything is in limbo at the moment.

If he left the new amp/switchbox I could have it all hooked up and put away by now. But I looked and he took it with him.

Bastard.

[Voyager]

I wouldn't bother calling the JW church. They'd probably give the asshat a medal or something, and second ten more idiots. Did he come from a contractor or DirecTV? In either case, I'd send them a nice little email or letter stating what you wrote here. I'd do both in case he is a contractor working for a JW boss. And I'd take the cheap HBO.

[hajario]

I wouldn't bother calling the JW church. They'd probably give the asshat a medal or something, and second ten more idiots.

Pay attention, dickhead. Preaching on the job is against JW rules. He's a newbie so he didn't know that.

Haj

[hansel]

I wouldn't bother calling the JW church. They'd probably give the asshat a medal or something, and second ten more idiots. Did he come from a contractor or DirecTV? In either case, I'd send them a nice little email or letter stating what you wrote here. I'd do both in case he is a contractor working for a JW boss. And I'd take the cheap HBO.My sister and brother-in-law are JWs, and I'm given to understand that the JW church has become quite sensitive about its image as a door-to-door bother, and have laid down some fairly strict guidelines about how far to go, when to leave, and when to say nothing at all.

By all means, call the local Kingdom Hall and politely tell them that you didn't appreciate your attempt to get cable being foiled by an over-enthusiastic witness. They'll probably apologize.

[Seven]

Hey,. 9:30 pm at night and there is a knock on my door.

Guess who's back?

Nine fucking thirty at night!

[Intent]

Pay attention, dickhead. Preaching on the job is against JW rules. He's a newbie so he didn't know that.

Haj


And I always thought they weren't supposed to cuss either...

But in all seriousness, my experiences with JW have shown them to be some of the most hypocritical religious nuts ever. Perhaps I have just been unlucky in my meetings, but if you are going to preach to me about the wonders of your religion, you damn well better practice it.

[msklystron]

My sister and brother-in-law are JWs, and I'm given to understand that the JW church has become quite sensitive about its image as a door-to-door bother, and have laid down some fairly strict guidelines about how far to go, when to leave, and when to say nothing at all.

By all means, call the local Kingdom Hall and politely tell them that you didn't appreciate your attempt to get cable being foiled by an over-enthusiastic witness. They'll probably apologize.

About 5 years ago, I was just getting into the shower, the window was open a crack and I could hear someone by my front door (footsteps). Thinking it was one of my kids' friends, the meter man or someone selling something, I called out that I was busy. I finished my shower, towelled off, put on my usual creams and lotions, put on a robe and walked toward the kitchen. As I passed by my front door, which has a long slim vertical window beside it I saw a man's face pressed up against the glass. Being the kind of gal I am I opened the door and asked what he thought he was doing. He and his partner started to mumble about being JWs and prophered pamplets. I told them that I knew they had been lurking around my windows and that they'd better get lost before I called the police....

A year later, I was nursing my baby in the nursery; my older kids had just left for school leaving the front door closed but not locked. I heard the screen door open, followed by the whine of the hinges on the heavy wooden door. Being the kind of gal I am, I placed the baby safely in the crib and went to investigate. A man was in my front hall, looking about and another was behind him. You guessed it -- JWs

I did call the police but didn't press charges. Instead I called the watchtower and demanded that no JW ever darken my door again, promising that if one did; I would call the cops. As an afterthought, I told him not to send a JW to apologize in person. Well, a few days later, a JW shows up at some ungodly time on a Sunday morning (interupting a lovemaking session with my husband). I went to the door and sent her away before she could say a word. From that day forward JWs pass my house by.

[hajario]

[I]f you are going to preach to me about the wonders of your religion, you damn well better practice it.

I can cuss all that I want, cocksucker motherfucker. I am not a JW. I never have been a JW. I just know a little something about them. Every religion has plenty of hypocrites and the JWs are no exception. The JW in the OP said himself that he was a newbie. He needs to be informed by his own church that what he did was against the rules.

Haj

[duffer]

Wow, you have more patience than I.

A quick aside. Everyone I know that encounters a JW just says, "I'm Cathloic. If the Pope hasn't approved of what you're saying, we nothing left to say to each other."

WARNING: This one is really bad, and should only be used in extreme cases, as it will brand you an anti-Semite.













Say you're Jewish. Then remind them of someone years ago that tried to convert your faith.

That should end the conversation pretty quick.

[Seven]

Tee hee.

It's very, VERY dark on the south side of my house. Oh sure, I could have flipped on the million-gazillion watt security flood lights which bathe the entire house and the property in brillant white light....

Too bad for our freaky religion asshat he had to fumble in the dark and finish the job with a Maglite in his mouth.

<Nelson Muntz> HA HA </Nelson Muntz>

So, he's gone now. He said something about coming back to rewire this and that and what-have-you. I just asked it the DVR was up and running, he said yes, I said "Ok, then. Goodbye".

[Eleusis]

So, he's gone now. He said something about coming back to rewire this and thatand what-have-you.
Rewire what, your brain?

I hope you explained to the "newbie" in no uncertain terms that his behavior was unacceptable. I'd have probably thrown him out the first time he didn't listen to your objections, and possibly, in a very threatening manner. Then again, I understand you don't want your daughter exposed to such bullshit in the first place. Kudos.

And I'd take the cheap HBO.
Amen. Absolutely take the cheap HBO. You deserve it.

[BlackKnight]

Anyone else wondering if the real directTV guy is tied up in the trunk of a car somewhere?

[duffer]

Anyone else wondering if the real directTV guy is tied up in the trunk of a car somewhere?

*snort* Good one

[Seven]

Hmmm? He did speak with a lisp,. and he introduced himself as Chip Douglas.

;)

I suspect DirecTV will call again with a follow up call. I'll mention they may want to search trunks of nearby cars for their real tech,. just in case. heh heh

[Dunderman]

You know why I hate Jehovah's Witnesses? Well, apart from the obvious reasons, that is.

Some years ago I was a happy little theology student filled to the brim with interesting knowledge, and also a convinced atheist. I knew exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses believe that is flat-out wrong and why it is wrong. So when two of them came to my apartment, I invited them in for a tea and a chat, basically a chance to convert me. They're supposed to love that shit, right?

They must have smelled trouble, 'cause they bolted. Get it? I invited the bastards in, and they rejected me. Rejected by Jehovah's Witnesses... that's as low as you go.

[duffer]

You know why I hate Jehovah's Witnesses? Well, apart from the obvious reasons, that is.

Some years ago I was a happy little theology student filled to the brim with interesting knowledge, and also a convinced atheist. I knew exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses believe that is flat-out wrong and why it is wrong. So when two of them came to my apartment, I invited them in for a tea and a chat, basically a chance to convert me. They're supposed to love that shit, right?

They must have smelled trouble, 'cause they bolted. Get it? I invited the bastards in, and they rejected me. Rejected by Jehovah's Witnesses... that's as low as you go.

If that ain't a sign, I don't know what is :eek:

[Venoma]

Did he come from a contractor or DirecTV? In either case, I'd send them a nice little email or letter stating what you wrote here.
A contractor, I can almost guarantee you.

Without representing myself as an official representative of the company, I will say that I work for DirecTV - if I had answered your call, I would have registered an official complaint escalation including the installer's id #.

Sorry about that - some of the installers are very cool, some of them are ASSHOLES, and some of them, apparantly, are downright weird.

(mmm.. cheap HBO!)

[detop]

<snip> I tell his straight out "I have read the bible, I've read about various Christian religions, and have decided I do not and can not subscribe to Christianity."<snip>

You should have told him you worship Og ! :D

[Astroboy14]

Seven, you apparently have some troubles in your heart...

Come, brother, let's pray together and...

*OW! Stop it! OWW!! :D

[Seven]

You should have told him you worship Og ! :D

Heh heh

Installer: So tell me,. how you feel about this stuff?

Me: Well,. during the Rectification of the Vuldronaii, the Traveler came as a large and moving Torb! Then, during the Third Reconciliation of the Last of the Meketrex Supplicants, they chose a new form for him, that of a giant Sloar! Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of a Sloar that day, I can tell you!

[duffer]

Heh heh

Installer: So tell me,. how you feel about this stuff?

Me: Well,. during the Rectification of the Vuldronaii, the Traveler came as a large and moving Torb! Then, during the Third Reconciliation of the Last of the Meketrex Supplicants, they chose a new form for him, that of a giant Sloar! Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of a Sloar that day, I can tell you!

Beter than mine. That would have me genuflect before running while looking over my shoulder

[Liberal]

I swear, some atheists have no balls. Why all the coy games and demure hints? Why not just come out and say, "I don't want to discuss this. Do you understand what I am saying to you? If you raise the topic again, I'll call your employer."

[Cheesesteak]

I get the whole "annoying JW thing" but I'm kind of surprised that nobody is jumping up and down about thisFirst, he says he has to go to another install and he will return to finish mine in a few hours. He did say he would get our system going with the one line before he leaves. When he returns he'll run the second line and finish up. WTF? When did you turn into 'second class customer'? I suppose the other guy's job is so much more important than yours, that he can show up to yours 2 hours late, futz around, then not even finish before leaving again. Of course, he comes back at a completely unreasonable hour then STILL doesn't finish.

You know what? Blab all you want about whatever god you feel like, leave brochures in my bathroom if you need to, just finish the fucking job and get out of my house.

[Bill Door]

My response to witnessing of any persuasion is to tell the proselytizing sons of bitches that I believe in God, I just happen to think he's an asshole. Sometimes the conversation lasts 30 seconds or so after that, but most often it ends immediately, and they don't come back.

If one was holding my cable hostage though, I might be tempted to just smile and nod.

[Liberal]

Coward. Every atheist worth his salt should have a pen firmly gripped in hand.

[SentientMeat]

Surely they should not attempt to proselytise on one's doorstep, and certainly when you are effectively paying them to work? Anything which terminates such unnacceptable behaiviour with the least fuss and embarassment to all, lies or no, is fair.

But, yes, personally I would tell them that I would deny God even were he to appear before my very eyes in heaven.

[Revtim]

Coward. Every atheist worth his salt should have a pen firmly gripped in hand.Damn straight. I keep a sharpened Bic in a holster for just such an occasion! I have to wipe chunks of hand-flesh off it pretty much on a weekly basis.

[Hamadryad]

Heh heh

Installer: So tell me,. how you feel about this stuff?

Me: Well,. during the Rectification of the Vuldronaii, the Traveler came as a large and moving Torb! Then, during the Third Reconciliation of the Last of the Meketrex Supplicants, they chose a new form for him, that of a giant Sloar! Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of a Sloar that day, I can tell you!Bwahahahahahaha!!! Do you actually have that memorized, or did you have to look it up? Because - man, perfect quote. Beautiful.

[Master Wang-Ka]

Ahh.

A Jehovah's Witnesses thread.

*************************

Years ago, I was much younger, and didn't live here. I lived in a part of a certain town, far from here, that seemed infested with Jehovah's Witnesses.

At the time, I didn't have a thing against any religious group, creed, belief system, or much of anyone else.

I still don't.

Except Jehovah's Witnesses.

You see, these Jehovah's Witnesses used to Witness the hell out of this one neighborhood. Once or twice a month, I could count on one or two of them knocking on my door, wanting to come in and discuss "The Watchtower" with me.

This wouldn't have been so bad, except that they INVARIABLY showed up around eight a.m. or so... on a Saturday or Sunday morning.

I was in college at the time, unemployed, and independently wealthy from the royalties on my patents on various evil rubber sex toys, and the idea of being awake and ambulatory at eight a.m. on ANY day for ANY reason was durn near against MY religion.

...so like a sucker, I'd shrug into a bathrobe, stagger blindly into the living room, and open the door, expecting to find my old man there, telling me to get dressed, your grandfather's had a stroke or something...

...and be confronted by two clean-cut young men in white shirts and ties who want to give me literature and can they come in and discuss The Watchtower with me?

Now, I'm not fond of a lot of churchy folks to begin with, and I'm especially suspicious of the ones that come HUNTING ME DOWN. Nearly all religions preach humility, and for a quality so highly valued, you sure don't see a lot of it in many of these folks, and I don't much like being treated high-handedly or looked down the nose at, on the off chance that I don't happen to subscribe to a particular godfest, okay?

...and in time, I came to resent these people. I quit being polite. I got rather curt with them. "No thank you, I already have a religion," followed by closing the door in their faces because if you DON'T close the door in their faces, they'll KEEP TALKING, the bastards won't LET you get away gracefully and politely...

In fact, some of them seem to THRIVE on being verbally abused, cursed at, sprayed down with garden hoses, and generally badly treated. Years later, my wife told me that this is PART of Witnessing -- being kicked in the butt by the Infidels. This is part of how Witnesses earn their way into Heaven! The more dirt you throw at them, the more exalted they'll be when they get there... the sweeter it is when they manage to CONVERT someone... the jollier it is, altogether. In short, being spat upon is PART OF THEIR RELIGION.

And it didn't stop them. They kept coming back.

...and this culminated in an ugly incident one Saturday morning.

You see, the previous Friday night, we'd been into caffeine... and Civilization.

Civilization, the old Avalon Hill board game. Seven players. Each player takes the part of a Stone Age tribe, and you have to build a Classical Civilization, based on trade, warfare, and individual achievements like music, architecture, metalworking, agriculture, and so on. Ever played it? It's a kick, and educational, too...

...but a seven-player game rarely takes less than eight hours.

We'd just finished up. We'd been rolling dice and moving mice for about fifteen hours... and that sonofabitch Bobo had done his usual trick of cornering the goddamn salt market, ALL over the Mediterreanean, and the other players LET HIM DO IT, every damn game, and I'd had HELL keeping the Minoans out of Thrace, and Troll had been spreading plagues, iconoclasm, and heresy left and right -- he'd managed to delay the Greeks' entry into the Late Iron Age for two whole turns... and the Creature kept wanting to expand up out of Egypt (he stomped on the Egyptian player early -- he'd started out in Africa and, as Zimbabwe, had squeezed the Egyptian player out of the game singlehanded, but was still dumb enough to trade Bobo salt for ochre)...

...we were WEIRD. It was seven-thirty in the morning, and we were stonkered on caffeine, nicotine, ancient history, and fatigue poisons -- an ugly mix. One by one, we began getting up, putting away the board and tokens, and clearing away the mess.

Since it was my house, I decided to go to bed. I stripped down to my skivvies, and dived into the Legendary Waterbed, about which there's another thread around here somewhere.

I'd been there maybe fifteen minutes... just enough time to get REALLY comfortable... when there was a knock on the door. Troll and Bobo were still there, but at that time, we weren't living together, and they weren't comfortable answering my door... so I got up, still dressed in nothing but Fruit-Of-The-Looms, and answered the door, fully expecting that it was the Creature or someone, having forgotten his keys or some durn thing...

...and, in the pale morning light, I found myself face to face with a fat lady in a flowered dress and her two small children. They all seemed quite surprised to be confronted with a sudden hairy near-naked man who stank of old cigarettes and the dust of ancient history. Precisely what they DID expect to find at my house at eight a.m. on a Saturday morning, I couldn't tell you.

We all stood there and stared at each other for a moment.

And then my eyes focused. I saw what it was she was clutching to her breast.

PAMPHLETS. And copies of THE WATCHTOWER.

I screamed. Well, perhaps howled is a better term. I wasn't afraid, of course... I wasn't even really... "angry".

But I'd been comfortable, dammit, and about to drift off to sleep, and I'd taken THIRD place in the dratted game, thanks to Troll's plague and Bobo and his goddamn salt-based economy, and I'd been on the VERY EDGE of drifting off to dreamland, and it was EIGHT goddamn A.M. on a SATURDAY morning, and HERE THE BASTURDS WERE, ALL OVER AGAIN!

So I screamed. Loud. Guttural. Absolutely fucking berserk.

Troll and Bobo looked up.

The woman screamed, too.

Her children turned tail and ran.

She stood there, mouth hanging open, brain locked up on her from sheer shock.

It occurred to me that it would be nice if she would run away, too. It would certainly be convenient. How could I make this happen? Perhaps if I did something that seemed threatening...

I glanced at the umbrella holder next to the door.

In it were two umbrellas, a cane, a large rubber double-ended dildo, and a sword. A real sword, genuine Toledo steel, left over from RenFaire. I grabbed it, waved it around, and screamed again.

She screamed again, too, spun around, and took off running across my front yard.

.......

...now I don't really know why I did what I did next. I was still kind of asleep, you'll remember, and I'd been up all night, and I sure as anything wasn't really thinking straight.

I do know, though, that I decided that she might stop running. I didn't want her to stop running. I wanted her to keep running clear to Oklahoma, if at all possible. The only way I could think of to make her keep running was the thing I had done to make her start running in the first place.

So I took off running, too. I screamed some more, and began waving the sword, like a loony about to make Viking salad out of some luckless soul.

The children had stopped running at the sidewalk. When the mostly naked hairy man erupted from the bushes in pursuit of Mama, waving a sword and shrieking like a banshee with kidney stones, they took OFF, with Mama right behind, and the crazy hairy man in hot pursuit.

I screamed again.

Mama screamed again.

The kids, not to be left out, screamed REAL loud.

Well, I didn't want the cycle to stop anytime soon. I screamed again. Mama screamed again, and the kids screamed again, and we all ran across the street at the end of the block.

Well, as you'll imagine, this was kind of noisy.

Some people poked their heads out of windows. A few front doors opened. People were looking to see what was happening.

...and it occurred to me that this particular course of action might have consequences that I had not foreseen.

I stopped running.

By now, the kids had reached a car, and were tugging at the handle and crying and screaming for Mama, Mama, the car is locked!

Mama hadn't evem looked over her shoulder, and was still booking, all three hundred pounds of her. They all leaped into the car, all in a twinkling.

I roared at them and waved my sword, as they peeled out and drove away.

I stood there in the middle of someone's front yard in my underwear, holding a broadsword.

People looked at me.

Fortunately, at the time, I was well equipped to save face -- I had hair down past my shoulders, and a beard out to here. I scowled around me. A couple of people closed their front doors.

Feeling dangerous and foolish, I walked back to my house. Troll and Bobo solemnly applauded as I stuck the sword back in the umbrella stand and went to bed.

I understand the cops drove up and down the street a few minutes later, but nothing ever came of it.

...and for the rest of the time I lived at that address... the Jehovah's Witnesses NEVER bothered us again.

[Metacom]

Master Wang-Ka, you rock.

[Yakkette]

Holy SHIT! *falls over laughing*

That is the funniest thing I have ever read!!!

I have a few steel items myself. Perhaps I will keep them by the front door for just such an occasion.....hmm...

Odd. Now I WANT the Jehovah's to come to my house...*evil cackling*

I also heard somewhere that if you tell them you're Mormon (I think, someone might need to confirm), they hightail it...Haven't had a chance to try THAT one yet, but I do think the sword thing is going to be my first line of defense... :D

[Deadly Nightlight]

I wouldn't bother calling the JW church. They'd probably give the asshat a medal or something, and second ten more idiots. Did he come from a contractor or DirecTV? In either case, I'd send them a nice little email or letter stating what you wrote here. I'd do both in case he is a contractor working for a JW boss. And I'd take the cheap HBO.


As the boards local witness (really half of a witness, as I have not been there in atleast 6 months) I can tell you that preaching on the job is looked on in a negative light. Its ok if it comes up in conversation, but trapping people into listening to you isn't. I go to the local Kingdom Hall in my town, and if I had the same experience as you, I would not hesitate to call the church elders.

[Jonathan Chance]

Coward. Every atheist worth his salt should have a pen firmly gripped in hand.

Bob Dole is an atheist?

[Binarydrone]

I swear, some atheists have no balls. Why all the coy games and demure hints? Why not just come out and say, "I don't want to discuss this. Do you understand what I am saying to you? If you raise the topic again, I'll call your employer."
Can't say that I agree with the "coward" assessment here.

The problem is that, even now, there are many people out there who have been raised to have at least some semblance of manners and who value polite social interaction. This is, I think, one of the reasons why these door-to-door proselytizers (and telemarketers for that matter) inspire so much resentment and ire. By their very nature they are forcing people to either listen to a bunch of crap for which they hold no interest, or to be rude. Their very existence is an affront to genteel sensibilities.

[Palo Verde]

I don't get it. A JW pair came to my door just a few days ago. They were very polite. I told them I'm not Christian and why. We actually had an interesting conversation.

All of the times JWs have come by my house they have been nice and not at all pushy.

Maybe I am unique in having positive experiences, but I don't see the need to be mean to them.

[Liberal]

I've seen the piece that Master Wang-Ka pasted. Can't remember where, maybe here. But I've seen it.

[Master Wang-Ka]

All of the times JWs have come by my house they have been nice and not at all pushy. Maybe I am unique in having positive experiences, but I don't see the need to be mean to them.

Can't speak for your uniqueness... but most of the JWs that showed up at my place weren't THAT bad. A few kept yammering up until I closed the door in their faces, but most were no worse than your average Girl Scout on a cookie run.

Two factors triggered the event of which I spoke, above:

1. REPETITION. They simply would not quit. It wasn't the same ones, over and over, but they simply ... kept... showing... up, month after month, once, twice, three times a month. I kept having the same conversation over and over. It wore through any semblance of courtesy I ever had towards the JWs. I finally got to the point of simply saying "Go away," and closing the door in their faces, a thing I wouldn't dream of doing to any other sort of human who came to my door (except possibly magazine salesmen).

2. TIMING. They always showed up WAY too early on a weekend morning. On weekend mornings, I am not generally a civil person until I've had my coffee and a bite of breakfast. Waking me up to discuss religion is simply a bad idea, particularly if you're a complete stranger, and especially if fourteen OTHER members of your church have attempted to do the same thing since the beginning of the year.

Nowadays, my attitude towards Jehovah's Witnesses is rather poor. I have had it demonstrated repeatedly that they care not in the least for MY convenience, time, and so forth, in the pursuit of their vicious little agenda. Consequently, they have left a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak. I will not join them, discuss religion with them, or tolerate them on my stoop for more than a minute, and that includes the time they spent ringing my bell, waiting for me to answer, and the time it will take them to get down my driveway and onto some portion of Texas I do not own.

[Master Wang-Ka]

I've seen the piece that Master Wang-Ka pasted. Can't remember where, maybe here. But I've seen it.

Well, yeah. It's in the LAST Jehovah's Witness thread, around here somewhere. Or perhaps the Door-To-Door Salesman thread...

[lno]

I've seen the piece that Master Wang-Ka pasted. Can't remember where, maybe here. But I've seen it.I've seen the piece that Master Wang-Ka pasted. Can't remember where, maybe here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2826351&postcount=18). But I've seen it.

What's your insinuation?

[FriarTed]

JW's know they can count on me to buy a mag or maybe a new book. They come by at reasonable times, never actually come in to talk (they know me that well *G*- to be fair tho, it's usually a woman alone & I'm a guy), and are always quite polite.

LDS guys have gotten better- I've had some asshats & I've had some polite guys. I was helping a friend who was meeting with LDS chicks & they scheduled a session w/ the Elder (named, I am not kidding, Elder Jim Bishop, or was it Bishop Jim Elder? *L*)- HE was not an asshat, he was THE ASSHAT! He asked me how I expected to know what church was true, I replied I would compare & contrast their teachings & practices with the Bible & Christian history to see how well they match. His response- "You'll never find the truth that way!" and then to tell the chicks not to meet with me anymore as I knew & rejected enough of LDS Truth that to share with me any further would put me at risk of greater Divine Judgement.

Wellllllll, isn't that special!? Wasn't he just a little bit superior! I guess it's time to do......

THE SUPERIOR DANCE!!!

Hit it, Pearl! *Organ jams!*

[Uncommon Sense]

I've seen the piece that Master Wang-Ka pasted. Can't remember where, maybe here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2826351&postcount=18). But I've seen it.

What's your insinuation?


None, He merely stated that he remembered reading it somewhere else and that the somewhere else was possible these boards.
Maybe Wank-Ka could have linked the thread he pasted from....

[Dante]

I found an easy way to get rid of them. I just tell them I'm a witch, and that they should not "suffer me to live." Then I yell

MORTAL KOMBAT!

and adopt some deeply mystical kung fu stance, at which point they flee into the early morning light.

Flawless Victory.

[Martha Medea]

It is an image that will live in my mind for ever! Thanks (I think) Master Wang-Ka. I only hope the experience didn't boost their heaven credit points. Didn't I read somewhere that the quota for entry into heaven was already filled?

My JW policy - if they are polite, either on the doorstep or in another social situation - say 'I don't discuss my personal beliefs with strangers'. If they are pushy, I am not so polite. I can see the OP's dilemma though, being held hostage by the technician, not wanting to offend him in case it will have an effect on his motivation to finish the job efficiently. Definitely complain to the company and to the local Kingdom Hall, once the installation is complete.

My Granny used to invite them in for a chat while Grandad was at work, just to have someone to talk to. My grandfather got wind of this and told her he disapproved. He also (being an observant Jew) did not take too kindly to the mention of the Lord's name, so Granny, subversively, took to referring to them as 'Thingy's Witnesses' which I thought was wonderful.

[GaWd]

Seven,

A few points about DirecTV:

They don't come out to install anything most times. They typically use a local authorized installer. So in order to register a REAL complaint(and not just get free/cheap service from them), call DirecTV back, ask for the name and number of the company who sent the JW to your house and properly bitch at them.

My DirecTiVo install took about 30 minutes to install, and the tech and I removed the old cable and pulled new 2-conductor line all the way to the box in that time. There's abso-fucking-lutely no excuse for a 4 hour project.

Sam

[Irish Rogue]

To put in my two cents ... I've worked with a JW for the past 12 years ... and, for the most part, you'd never know. Of course, she doesn't participate in the office Christmas party, sign birthday cards, or dress up for the Halloween party ... but neither do a few of my other anti-social co-workers. haha :)

She never, NEVER discusses her religion at work ... except for the rare occasion that someone asks her about it. In fact, we had a facinating discussion once about JW's issues on donating or receiving blood during one of those "blood donation shortages" that happen now and again.

She's very open and honest ... she'll answer any questions ... but she never preaches here at the office. HOWEVER ... there are certain days of the week that she cannot work overtime due to her scheduled neighborhood walk-thrus ... so she does go door to door.

In any case ... I've also had the experience of the early Saturday morning visit. And what I found amazing is that they came to my door ... EVEN THOUGH I have one of those statues of Mary in the landscaping RIGHT by my front steps. I mean, they HAD to see it ... and HAD to know I was Catholic. So ... WTF? Why waste my time and theirs by ringing MY doorbell.

[Liberal]

I've seen the piece that Master Wang-Ka pasted. Can't remember where, maybe here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2826351&postcount=18). But I've seen it.

What's your insinuation?That you're a nosy jackass. What's yours?

[MacTech]

a couple of things i could see myself doing in the situation when i'm confronted by a JW...

i have a street-hockey mask that i "weathered" to look similar to the mask worn by the infamous Jason Vorhees, if i saw a JW on my front porch, i'd simply pull on the mask, grab a convenient blunt instrument, throw open the door, stare coldly at the JW, do the patented Jason "Head Tilt" thingy and take a step towards them (staying silent the whole time)

i also happen to have a paintball marker, mask and gear, alternate version would involve me pulling on the mask, grabbing the marker, opening the door and saying "oh, i'm sorry, you interrupted me, i'm on my way to a game of paintball and i don't want to be late"

(my marker is a black Tippmann 98 Custom (http://tippmann.com/markers/98c.asp) with an expansion chamber, 16" barrel, and 12 ounce CO2 tank with buttplate stock, simply put, at first glance, it looks like a real rifle.... ;) )

my apartment has a large window, but i have room darkening venetian blinds that make it impossible to see inside the apartment, i can see out, they can't see in ;)

the best thing is, both of these responses could be seen as "intimidating", yet *i'm doing nothing wrong*

[erislover]

I'm one of those really rare people that defy explanation, and I don't just mean because of my incredibly good looks (*cough*, :p). For example, I don't receive the terrible service at fast food restaraunts that everyone discusses. My experiences are, on the whole, pleasant at best and indifferent at worst. JWs represent another factor in that, they've never bothered me. I worked with the wife of a JW family (husband and two children) and she absolutely refused to do anything other than indicate she was a JW while at work. She was very nice and I got to know her and hers better, and had dinner at their house. They were not pushy like JWs have a reputation for, and we had some excellent debates without an underlying context of conversion (at least, I didn't feel like they were trying to convert me). I collected some of the Watchtower books they were willing to give me and still have them.

I was witnessed to by Mormons, though. They wouldn't leave me alone. I guess the 45 minute conversation on my porch led them to believe I was a fish dangling on the line and all they had to do was reel me in, though I surely never did anything to indicate that was the case, stating my beliefs quite clearly right away.

[Saintly Loser]

Coupla thoughts:

You were way more polite than I would have been. It's a major no-no for a JW to witness in the workplace. It's considered theft of your employers time. If I were you I'd call the nearest JW church and complain also so he can get a refresher course.

Haj

First, a few other posters made the same point. I know nothing about the beliefs and rules of Jehovah's Witness-ism, or whatever it's called (except where their headquarters are -- see below), but I can say that we've got two JWs here at the office who are a major pain in the ass about witnessing or whatever you want to call it here at work. It's not standing up on a soapbox or anything, but it seems like every time one gets into a conversation with either of them, it inevitably moves in that direction. I won't even say good morning to either of them anymore.

Second, I live right in the middle of the Jehovah's Witness equivalent of the Vatican (except the one in Rome is much, much nicer-looking). I live in the northern end of Brooklyn Heights, New York, and if you know anything about the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, you know that that location is pretty much St. Peter's Basilica and the Papal Palace for them. Anyway, I've never, ever had a problem with them knocking on my door, or proseletyzing in the street. And the throngs (literally) of JWs in the 'hood are always well-behaved and friendly, and in every way excellent neighbors.

[Count Blucher]

Seven, you must promise me that you will write a letter of complaint to Direct TV about this.


Not that I give a damn about the pro- or anti- JW cause.


I just want to see Andy Garcia or Lawrence Fishburne read it 'dramatically' on TV... :eek:

[Kalhoun]

You truly ARE the Master! Although, I did find one portion of your response that I would have changed...

You should have chased them with the double-ended dildo.

[presidebt]

Rejected by Jehovah's Witnesses... that's as low as you go.

Ha! I'll see your Jehovah's Witnesses and raise you two Mormons. Hehe.

When I was 21, a couple of Mormon gentlemen came to my door and asked if I'd like to hear about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I knew that meant Mormon, but I realized I didn't really know anything about Mormons, even though I was pretty well read in more traditional Christian faiths. So, my eager mind decided, what better way to learn than from Mormons themselves? They stayed and talked for 45 minutes, I served them tea and cookies and demonstrated enthusiastic curiosity. They prayed with me (the longest prayer session...like 15 minutes). They invited me to their church on Sunday and I accepted the offer. They offered to arrange transportation because I had no car. With a promise to call on Saturday to arrange a pick up time, we hugged and parted ways. I never heard from them again, or from anyone else associated with their church.

So, it's you and me kid, a coupla lucky losers. ;)

Since someone posted a couple of "how to keep x religious nut in check" ideas, I'll offer one my ex-boss shared with me.

My old boss says he sent two sweet young Mormon girls running screaming from his store when he asked them, "Have you seen any salamanders lately?" Something to do with imagery in the Mormon bible...

[lno]

That you're a nosy jackass. What's yours?That you've been a little snarky lately, with the cracks about pens, cowardice, and this unwarranted jackass comment, and that I'm surprised to see it coming from you.

Uncommon Sense, thanks for your comment

[Martha Medea]

Another tip would be to keep them talking for as long as you can bear to, to prevent them from preying (hah) on the more gullible. Same goes for political canvassers you don't agree with. :D

[Diogenes the Cynic]

When I was younger I used to invite JW's in for a "discussion" so I could make sport of them by shredding their arguments. This was especially fun when I had my dickweed, pothead friends over to be a snickering audience (my friends knew I was into this religious studies bag and they often baited me into playing "torment the Christian" at parties and whatnot as well as with JWs). After doing this a couple of times, though, I realized that it wasn't really as funny as I thought it would be, I was just sort of being mean, they ususally got more confused than shocked or angry and I'd end up feeling like an asshole. They were generally pretty nice, and I ended up feeling some sympathy for them on account of the abuse they took, not so much from atheists (who they told me tended just say "not interested" and close the door) but from Chick-type fundies who thought they were a cult. Sonce my natural inclination is to defend the underdog I sort of quit taking any joy in debating with JWs and discovered it was more satisfying to defend JW theology to fundies just to be a pain in the ass.

I also once had a boss who was JW (I was a line cook at a restauraunt and he was the manager). He didn't proselytize but he did forbid the playing of rock music on the kitchen radio and the wearing of "offensive" t-shirts ("Offensive" included any sort of rock band or pop culture reference). These rules were largely ignored, at least while he wasn't there. He was a tool but I think he was just naturally a tool, the JWs didn't make him that way.

The one exception to my reformed policy on taunting JWs was a guy who played guitar in my band. We were a death metal band and he actually wasn't supposed to even play an instrument much less be in a metal band so it was a weird juxtaposition. Occasionally, his study groups and witnessing would conflict with band rehearsals or gigs and he would have to make a choice. We needed him in the band so we started making some oretty disparaging remarks about his religious duties. I also started in with my old, sneering, destroy the Christian monologues. I'm not proud of it. I was a dick to him but I was an immature know-it-all. I might not have been so aggressive if he wasn't such a hypritical JW anyway. He pretty much violated every rule they had. Besides the band, he smoked dope, had his hair long, swore, shagged groupies and did everything the rest of us did. I don't know why he even stayed with the JWs as long as he did. Eventually we convinced him it was bullshit and he quit. Since then, I've always left JWs alone.

[Liberal]

That you've been a little snarky lately, with the cracks about pens, cowardice, and this unwarranted jackass comment, and that I'm surprised to see it coming from you.Excuse me? If I had made my cracks twenty paragraphs long and pasted them from an archive of My Favorite Writings By Me, and directed them toward people whom I blame for my own inability to take charge of my own environment in my own home — then I would have passed muster under your discerning eye and infallible judgment?

[Lute Skywatcher]

I wish I could write like the Master up there.

We haven't had any JWs around since we put a pair of 'em to work. They volunteered, mind you.

A couple of years ago, a friend of ours was about to move to South Carolina and she was getting rid of a bunch of her stuff. She gave us an entertainment center. A large entertainment center, its footprint is about the same size as our loveseat. It took the three of us to walk it down a flight of stairs and load it into her minivan, where it took up pretty much the entire cargo area.

We spotted a couple of young men in standard JW recruiting garb when we arrived at our complex. At first we were a bit concerned but then our thoughts turned to how we would get the entertainment center up to our second floor condo. Lo and behold, the JWs saw what we were doing and offered to take it up for us! We accepted.

Naturally, they went into their spiel once they set it down. By then, our friend and I had disappeared into the kitchen to let my SO deal with the JWs. She had been one until she got tired of their bull. She was a bit perturbed at having to deal with the JWs but she understood why we did what we did. If anyone knows how to get rid of JWs, it's someone who had been one.
Coward. Every atheist worth his salt should have a pen firmly gripped in hand.Bob Dole is an atheist?He said "pen", not "penis". :D

[lno]

Excuse me? If I had made my cracks twenty paragraphs long and pasted them from an archive of My Favorite Writings By Me, and directed them toward people whom I blame for my own inability to take charge of my own environment in my own home — then I would have passed muster under your discerning eye and infallible judgment?I'll add Wang-Ka to the list of people up against the wall when the revolution comes. He's right behind all of the members of the Academy for denying Bill Murray his well-deserved Oscar.

However, you seem a little on edge lately, so I'll gracefully bow out with my apologies.

(Oh, and my judgment is infallible only when I speak ex lnothedra. I'll let you know when that is.)

[Liberal]

He's right behind all of the members of the Academy for denying Bill Murray his well-deserved Oscar.We definitely agree on that!


However, you seem a little on edge lately, so I'll gracefully bow out with my apologies.None necessary. You were kind to be concerned. I'm fine. With my new duties at PhilosophyForums, I don't have time to be long-winded.

Peace.

[Master Wang-Ka]

You truly ARE the Master! Although, I did find one portion of your response that I would have changed...

You should have chased them with the double-ended dildo.

Well, I did mention that I wasn't exactly thinking straight. Plus, I was in the mood to make war, not love.

As to Libertarian, I'm not surprised that it looks familiar. I've posted this story on the SDMB at least twice, and on other boards as well. When Libertarian actually ACCUSES me of something, well, maybe THEN I'll be a dick about it...

[hajario]

I have a couple of good friends who grew up as JWs and have since abandoned the faith. They don't know each other and I knew them at different times in my life. They both told me the same thing. After a few weeks of the door to door stuff, they've pretty much seen it all. People answering the door in drag, underwear, naked or whatever, people pretending to be devil worshipers or otherwise trying to be scarey, people thinking that they're clever with the usual tired old chestuts (can God make a rock so heavy the he can't lift it?) and so on.

They had a list at the church of one of those friends. If you told them to go away and not come back, they wouldn't for two years. It was two years because they figured that there was a reasonable chance they you could have moved. Clearly the list isn't foolproof and people might not have checked it so carefully when there was assigned to a neighborhood. They're trying to save souls. They don't want to waste their time with someone who isn't going to listen to them.

As for why do they come to your house when you have stuff out front that clearly indicates that you're a Catholic. Well, duh, they want you to be a JW instead of a Catholic. It wouldn't make sense for them to knock on the doors of other JWs.

I'm not saying that they're not a pain in the ass and the cable guy in the OP was way out of line. Still, they're generally pretty decent and it's a theology that really tries hard to be self-consistent. They've admitted that they were wrong about things many times over their history. Hell, they've had to seeing as the world didn't end in 1975, 1925, and a couple other times. They spend a lot of time and money on scholorship. Their Bible is one of the best and most accurate (English) translations available. There's way worse things one could be than a JW. They have one hell of a lot less to apologize for than most other religions too.

Haj

[Seven]

I swear, some atheists have no balls. Why all the coy games and demure hints? Why not just come out and say, "I don't want to discuss this. Do you understand what I am saying to you? If you raise the topic again, I'll call your employer."

I'm trying to set a polite example of religious tolerance for my daughter. I'm an atheist and she knows that, but I don't want to give her the impression that she needs to avoid a religion of her own in the future if she so decides.

I did have a nice talk with her and explained some people are just a bit over the top with their religion (I think I used the term "excited") and you need to just give them space.

When she's older and has a better handle on religion and religious fanatics, I'll let her see me rip one of these fucks a new ass. But, as she's only 12, I keep it calm and polite.

[FordPrefect]

Coward. Every atheist worth his salt should have a pen firmly gripped in hand.

I find Nietzsche-based quotes work well, "You do realize God is dead, right?"

Except with my family, I hate to see my mom cry.

[Cervaise]

I swear, some atheists have no balls. Why all the coy games and demure hints? Why not just come out and say, "I don't want to discuss this. Do you understand what I am saying to you? If you raise the topic again, I'll call your employer."I haven't had the opportunity in a while, but that's very similar to my standard response.

"I don't think it's a good idea to pursue this conversation with me."

"But-- why? I just want to tell you about the glory of Jesus Christ our Lord--"

"I know you mean well. But I'm telling you the discussion will not go the way you want it to go, and that we should change the subject."

"Do you hate God or something?"

"Nothing so simple. Look, I'm a live-and-let-live sort of guy. But if you insist on continuing this conversation, and finding out what I believe and why, I guarantee you'll be questioning your faith at the end of it. Is that really what you want?"

All of this in a polite but firm tone of voice. Not inviting argument; rather, saying clearly but without hostility that we're about to get into a Bad Area, and that it'll be a lot worse for them than it will be for me. Their choice to continue or not.

That's if I'm confronted in a can't-get-away situation, getting cornered at a party or something. (Luckily for me, I've never had someone witness on the job like in the OP. Haven't had to consider that possibility.) When they ring the doorbell, I just wave 'em off and close the door. No sense getting in an unnecessary fight.

[Cervaise]

Oh, and I meant to second what lno was saying. You seem quite a bit more short-tempered and uneven lately, Lib. You say everything's okay, but lno isn't the only one who's noticed a difference. Just thought it was worth mentioning in case there is something going on that you haven't thought about.

[Tenar]

I had a woman and her frightened looking little girl of about 7 years or so turn up at my door to witness to me on Saturday. I really wish these people would leave the little kids at home. The girl looked absolutely miserable. I longed to send the woman packing, but I couldn't bear to make that little urchin look any sadder than she already did, so I just thanked them for the Watchtower and said I was too busy to talk. I gave the kid a BIG thank you, and finally got a smile back.

I know the Witnesses don't actually drag the kids along to give them cover, but it has that effect on me.

[Jaade]

I have never had a bad experience with a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness before.

Yes, I've been approached by both. Someone earlier said that they have heard telling a JW that you are a Mormon will get them to go away.

I found that telling them the truth (in my case)..that my family is Pentecostal and very religious usually gets them to leave......

without even offering one of their little books. It's rather interesting. I wonder if there are some religions that they will not interfere with, it seems that way in my case.

(My friend tried devil worshipping, that worked too..in her case though, it wasn't true. She's not a devil worshiper, she's just mean.)

[duffer]

I'm trying to set a polite example of religious tolerance for my daughter. I'm an atheist and she knows that, but I don't want to give her the impression that she needs to avoid a religion of her own in the future if she so decides.

I did have a nice talk with her and explained some people are just a bit over the top with their religion (I think I used the term "excited") and you need to just give them space.

When she's older and has a better handle on religion and religious fanatics, I'll let her see me rip one of these fucks a new ass. But, as she's only 12, I keep it calm and polite.

I know this happens, but not sure how it's handled.

How would you reconcile this possible outcome?

Your daughter grows up to eventually have faith in a Christian faith. As such, she believes in ever-lasting life, etc. She knows you're atheist, and depending on the faith, she sees that you won't be saved and she won't see you in Heaven.

I've never actually thought about this before your post. Any ideas?

BTW, sorry for the hijack, but can't see starting a whole thread over it. :)

[Morrigoon]

I am now going to arm you, my friends, against JW and Mormon doorknockers. No need to thank me (though tips are appreciated).

When they want to talk about "the word" with you, tell them to wait there, go in and grab your bible (if you don't own one, consider picking up a cheap copy), open it to the very end, Revelations 22:18-19. Read it aloud. Tell them their other books are a load of crap, thank them for their time, and shut the door.

And to truly understand what I'm talking about, go look it up you lazy fucks :)

[Desmostylus]

open it to the very end, Revelations 22:18-19. Read it aloudHoly crap! I'll have to try that one:For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If men shall go about in pairs wearing white shirts and black ties, and riding upon ten speed bicycles, God shall add unto them the plagues that are written in this book.

[Morrigoon]

Okay, that had me ROTFL! Thank you for that :)

[Siege]

Master Wang Ka, that was beautiful! A work of art if ever there was one!

I, too worked with a Jehovah's Witness once. Since we both spoke some Japanese, and there weren't many people around who did, he asked if he could call me at home and we could both get in some practice. Since this was while I was making the transition from Japanese translator to progammer, I agreed, with the understanding that I had no interest in becoming a Jehovah's Witness and he would make no attempt to convert me. He didn't uphold his side of the bargain, and a budding friendship withered.

I have to like the way an old boyfriend of mine dealt with a door-to-door proselytizer, although he swore part of it was inadvertant. You see, he's well over 6 feet tall, 3 feet wide of the shoulder, and the hairiest person I have ever seen! He was also working as a security guard in those days, so he had a reason to have handcuffs around. The man can be scary-looking when he chooses, and he has a warped and twisted sense of humor. One day when his then-girlfriend was visiting him (one of my predecessors), a JW came to the door. The lad came down stairs in black shorts, a black t-shirt, and far too much hair, rather annoyed at the interuption. He lowered his voice down to a good, evil half-whisper and said, Fools! Don't you know you've interupted a very important ritual?!" That much was planned. What he did not plan on was his girlfriend coming downstairs, hands in the handcuffs, saying, "Can you get me out of these?" They left him alone for a long time after that! :D

CJ

[Liberal]

Oh, and I meant to second what lno was saying. You seem quite a bit more short-tempered and uneven lately, Lib. You say everything's okay, but lno isn't the only one who's noticed a difference. Just thought it was worth mentioning in case there is something going on that you haven't thought about.Inasmuch as it's hard to be objective about oneself, I'll take your word for it. But all I'm saying here is that I would appreciate honesty from both the atheist and the faithful. Just like believers, nonbelievers are not the Borg. There are nonbelievers who don't make such a big deal out of believers expressing themselves. On the other hand, there are nonbelievers (and believers) who are so insulted by the mere introduction of testimony into conversation — especially from strangers — that they take it as a monumental afront of such proportions that they find it necessary to spend an hour venting about it. If it is that horrifying, then it just seems disingenuous to play along with coy games and then come back here and basically brag about it. In other words, if it was worth a rant here, then it was worth a rant there.

[SentientMeat]

But, Lib we're not talking about those who do just "drop it into conversation" but those who actively seek to proselytise while you are paying them to work, or indeed knock on your very door solely to do so.

Such behaviour is utterly unacceptable. They deserve to be jerked around any which way. The ones who take their children with them ought to be reported to social services.

[Desmostylus]

So tell us, Lib, what do you say to the JWs?

[BobLibDem]

Nitpick: Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian. The basic tenet of Christianity is belief in the divinity of Jesus, which JWs reject.

[Achilles]

Reminds me of the joke:

A gentleman goes into a barber’s and the barber says, ‘How would you like your hair cut, sir?’

The gentleman replies, ‘In silence’.

[Epimetheus]

I've seen libs pictures, he probably mumbles and talks about setting fire to buildings, like that fat guy with glasses in office space. They look pretty similar too.

About as interesting too.

Hopefully Lib's new duties at the NerdForums will draw him away from this board forever and entirely. It would be a good riddance that is for sure. Asshat.

[Liberal]

But, Lib we're not talking about those who do just "drop it into conversation" but those who actively seek to proselytise while you are paying them to work, or indeed knock on your very door solely to do so.

Such behaviour is utterly unacceptable. They deserve to be jerked around any which way. The ones who take their children with them ought to be reported to social services.Within your post, bolded by me, is exactly what I've said since the first...

I swear, some atheists have no balls. Why all the coy games and demure hints? Why not just come out and say, "I don't want to discuss this. Do you understand what I am saying to you? If you raise the topic again, I'll call your employer."

...and exactly what I just said...

In other words, if it was worth a rant here, then it was worth a rant there.

So, why are you arguing with me?

[Bandanaman]

A good friend of mine is a JW. I drink beer with him frequently. He's never tried to witness to me, or even discussed religion or his beliefs with me. I haven't read this whole thread, so I may be out of line, but I just know when the subject of JW's comes up, a lot of people have prejudicial stereotypes about them. JW's, in my experience, being the ones at my door, have never been anything but cordial and friendly.

Now the Southern Baptists, on the other hand...

[SentientMeat]

Oh, I see what you mean.

In that case, as others have pointed out, they might well feel justified by being ranted at, and revealing one's atheism might mark you out as a "possible future convert" in their perverse little minds, whereas a simple barefaced lie like "I'm Jewish" could deny them any perceived martyrdom and make you safely off-limits forever more.

[elmwood]

Bring it on, Witnesses! (http://www.cyburbia.org/tmp/bg_13.jpg)

I have two extremely friendly dogs that, despite training and shouts of "NO!" that they would otherwise obey, still insist on enthusiasticaly greeting and jumping on any visitors to the house. It's a Portie breed trait that supposedly can't be trained out of them; they're extremely people-oriented working dogs that want to be as close to someone as possible. Especially Jehovah's Witnesses.

Trying to pitch the Watchtower while an extremely happy Guinness is running circles and jumping towards you, bringing random toys and shoving them into your hand, with Bailey sniffing and licking the contents of the standard accompanying SUV stroller, is more than most JWs can handle.

[hajario]

Nitpick: Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian. The basic tenet of Christianity is belief in the divinity of Jesus, which JWs reject.

Incorrect. They don't believe in the trinity but they do believe in the divinity of Jesus.

I am now going to arm you, my friends, against JW and Mormon doorknockers. No need to thank me (though tips are appreciated).

When they want to talk about "the word" with you, tell them to wait there, go in and grab your bible (if you don't own one, consider picking up a cheap copy), open it to the very end, Revelations 22:18-19. Read it aloud. Tell them their other books are a load of crap, thank them for their time, and shut the door.

That is a good one for the Mormans. What "other books" do the JWs have that add to the Bible?

Haj

[BobLibDem]

Incorrect. They don't believe in the trinity but they do believe in the divinity of Jesus.Haj

From their own web site: (http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/index.htm)
"Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him"
"Christ was first of God's creations"
"Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person"

And in this reference (http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/index.htm) it is explicitly stated: "The fact is that Jesus is not God and never claimed to be."

[The Flying Dutchman]

Wasn't there a movie about the OP several years ago? I think Jim Carrey was in it.

Cable Guy I think it was.

[Weirddave]

Nitpick: Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian. The basic tenet of Christianity is belief in the divinity of Jesus, which JWs reject.
As a point of fact, if they call themselves Christians, then they are. Who gave you the right judge them? "Well, you're not real Christians, my little group of course is, and I'm not sure about the Catholics". If someone believes he's following the teachings of Christ and calls himself a Christian, guess what? He is! Isn't it wonderful to be able to determine one's own faith and not to have someone else force you into their little box?

[Martha Medea]

Apart from doorstep encounters, I can't say I have had any bad experiences with JWs. I worked with one once and he did bring it into conversation sometimes, but not in a pushy way. It was more to do with how it helped put him on what he saw as the straight-and-narrow, after a youth dedicated to 'fornication' in his words.

My sister has a very good friend who is a JW and is very protective of her when people make disparaging remarks:

Sis: I saw H today, she's been a bit depressed lately.
Dad: Why? Does she need a blood transfusion?
Sis: Fuck off Dad (or words to that effect).

[BobLibDem]

As a point of fact, if they call themselves Christians, then they are. Who gave you the right judge them? "Well, you're not real Christians, my little group of course is, and I'm not sure about the Catholics". If someone believes he's following the teachings of Christ and calls himself a Christian, guess what? He is! Isn't it wonderful to be able to determine one's own faith and not to have someone else force you into their little box?

Well, they can CALL themselves that. But every other Christian denomination believes in the divinity of Christ. Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodist,....etc. ad infinitum. This is THE core of the Christian faith. To deny it makes you a non-Christian. I'm not saying that there isn't a possiblity that their interpretation is correct, I'm just saying that their definition of Christianity goes against every single other sect of Christianity.

This is like Lincoln's question: If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? The answer is 4- calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one.

[hajario]

From their own web site: (http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/index.htm)
"Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him"
"Christ was first of God's creations"
"Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person"

And in this reference (http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/index.htm) it is explicitly stated: "The fact is that Jesus is not God and never claimed to be."

Not to get Clinton on you but it depends on which definition of divine you use. Yes, Jesus is considered to be inferior to God but he is considered to be divine as in "godlike" and "supremely good." They do not believe that he was a mere mortal. They are trying very hard to get to the roots of Christianity. They feel like they are theologically the closest to how the original Christians (Christian Jews) were. An argument can be made that they are correct too.

Haj

[erislover]

As a point of fact, if they call themselves Christians, then they are. Who gave you the right judge them? "Well, you're not real Christians, my little group of course is, and I'm not sure about the Catholics". If someone believes he's following the teachings of Christ and calls himself a Christian, guess what? He is! Isn't it wonderful to be able to determine one's own faith and not to have someone else force you into their little box?Look, I can call a hammer a "divine instrument of love" but if I use it to beat someone's brains in, we're not just talking about a true scotsman argument. It's safe to say that some christians are definitely quite selective about what they believe, to the point of tarnishing the name christianity itself, unless we note that they really aren't christians.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Well, they can CALL themselves that. But every other Christian denomination believes in the divinity of Christ. Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodist,....etc. ad infinitum. This is THE core of the Christian faith. To deny it makes you a non-Christian. I'm not saying that there isn't a possiblity that their interpretation is correct, I'm just saying that their definition of Christianity goes against every single other sect of Christianity.

This is like Lincoln's question: If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? The answer is 4- calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one.

Actually the defining characteristic of a Christian is the acceptance of Jesus as one's saviour. You don't have to believe he was divine, just that he died for your sins and was a rather nice fellow.

I have two methods for dealing with JWs and Mormons.

1) I point out that I'm about as likely to change my religion because two strangers asked me to as I am to stop using narcotics because urinal mats tell me to. *if you don't know what I'm talking about, the little rubber mats in urinals down here in Florida usually bear Reaganesque messages like "Don't do Drugs!" I don't know if this is a regional thing or not*

2) I like to play them off against one another. "Oh, hey guys. I became a Mormon last week because they offered free oil changes. What can you do for me?"

[hajario]

It's safe to say that some christians are definitely quite selective about what they believe, to the point of tarnishing the name christianity itself, unless we note that they really aren't christians.

Oddly enough, a JW would make the exact same argument.

Haj

[Weirddave]

Well, they can CALL themselves that. But every other Christian denomination believes in the divinity of Christ. Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodist,....etc. ad infinitum. This is THE core of the Christian faith. To deny it makes you a non-Christian. I'm not saying that there isn't a possiblity that their interpretation is correct, I'm just saying that their definition of Christianity goes against every single other sect of Christianity.

This is like Lincoln's question: If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? The answer is 4- calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one.

Bullshit. Beliefs are nebulous, intangeable ideas and differ from person to person, and thus are defined by each individual. Tails and legs are concrete, solid items that are the same to everyone. YOU don't get to determine anything about someone else's beliefs. The most you can do is distance yourself from their beliefs by saying "I'm not that kind of a Christian, I have different beliefs". If there is one thing to look forward to in an afterlife, it's gonna be God kicking the arrogant asses of many people who call themselves "Christian" today. I can see it now, God thundering at the fundies: "WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, TELLING ME HOW I HAVE TO ACT????" while welcoming a pagen into heaven.

[Lord Ashtar]

I am now going to arm you, my friends, against JW and Mormon doorknockers. No need to thank me (though tips are appreciated).

When they want to talk about "the word" with you, tell them to wait there, go in and grab your bible (if you don't own one, consider picking up a cheap copy), open it to the very end, Revelations 22:18-19. Read it aloud. Tell them their other books are a load of crap, thank them for their time, and shut the door.

And to truly understand what I'm talking about, go look it up you lazy fucks :)

Actually, I did this once, to a Mormon I think. He pointed to a verse in the Old Testament (Isaiah or Ezekiel I think, I'm too lazy to look it up) which says something similar. "So wouldn't that invalidate the New Testament?" he asked me.

"Yes, it would," I replied. Then I shut the door.

[Miller]

1) I point out that I'm about as likely to change my religion because two strangers asked me to as I am to stop using narcotics because urinal mats tell me to. *if you don't know what I'm talking about, the little rubber mats in urinals down here in Florida usually bear Reaganesque messages like "Don't do Drugs!" I don't know if this is a regional thing or not*


They don't have those out here in California, but I wish they did. That's one message I'd love to piss all over.

[hansel]

Bullshit. Beliefs are nebulous, intangeable ideas and differ from person to person, and thus are defined by each individual. Tails and legs are concrete, solid items that are the same to everyone. YOU don't get to determine anything about someone else's beliefs. The most you can do is distance yourself from their beliefs by saying "I'm not that kind of a Christian, I have different beliefs". If there is one thing to look forward to in an afterlife, it's gonna be God kicking the arrogant asses of many people who call themselves "Christian" today. I can see it now, God thundering at the fundies: "WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, TELLING ME HOW I HAVE TO ACT????" while welcoming a pagen into heaven.This is the argument of the heap. I don't believe in God. If I call myself a Christian, does that mean I'm a Christian? Isn't calling myself that disingenuous, at least, considering the common usage of the word? What if I call myself a Christian Muslim?

Just because Christianity isn't a strongly criterial group doesn't mean that a simple declaration is all you need.

[capacitor]

Nitpick: Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian. The basic tenet of Christianity is belief in the divinity of Jesus, which JWs reject.

JWs don't reject the divinity of Jesus. They reject the notion that Jesus is himself God, as Jesus himself did while he walked the Earth:

--Matthew 23:9;
John 5:19-20, 6:38, 7:16, 8:42, 14:10;
Luke 4:43,

Jesus worked and still works under the auspecies of and as a messenger of God, but Jesus himself is not God. Most every prayer by a JW usually end "In Jesus's name, Amen."

[Seven]

I know this happens, but not sure how it's handled.

How would you reconcile this possible outcome?

Your daughter grows up to eventually have faith in a Christian faith. As such, she believes in ever-lasting life, etc. She knows you're atheist, and depending on the faith, she sees that you won't be saved and she won't see you in Heaven.

I've never actually thought about this before your post. Any ideas?

BTW, sorry for the hijack, but can't see starting a whole thread over it. :)

Honestly, I'm not sure how I would handle this. I could speculate we'd have a close enough relationship so it wouldn't play a major issue between us though.

[JerseyDiamond]

As the boards local witness (really half of a witness, as I have not been there in atleast 6 months) I can tell you that preaching on the job is looked on in a negative light. Its ok if it comes up in conversation, but trapping people into listening to you isn't. I go to the local Kingdom Hall in my town, and if I had the same experience as you, I would not hesitate to call the church elders.

Hi, Deadly Nightlight.

I actually have a question for you (being that you are a JW)

If you don't mind, I would like to IM or email you. Let me know.

Thanks, JD

[pepperlandgirl]

When they want to talk about "the word" with you, tell them to wait there, go in and grab your bible (if you don't own one, consider picking up a cheap copy), open it to the very end, Revelations 22:18-19. Read it aloud. Tell them their other books are a load of crap, thank them for their time, and shut the door.

It's a rare missionary indeed who is phased by that reference. Trust me, they've seen it a million times, they'll see it a million times again, and they're prepared to answer. It's hardly effective.

I like Mormon Missionaries. It might have something to do with growing up in Utah and when I was younger, all the older boys I had crushes on would go off to their missions and they were so handsome and adult in their clean shirts and ties and it was always such a big deal....anyway, I think missionaries are hot. I always try to be nice to them if they knock on the door, even though I'm an atheist now. I'm right at the age where the boys I went to school with are on their missions now, and I'd like to think that people are being friendly to them so I just remember that they're somebody's son (or daughter), far away from home, doing what they think is the right thing....

Maybe I'm getting to be a softy in my old age. heh.

[Seven]

I'm right at the age where the boys I went to school with are on their missions now, and I'd like to think that people are being friendly to them so I just remember that they're somebody's son (or daughter), far away from home, doing what they think is the right thing....

But you also have to remember, they are human version of spam.

Some people can't stand spam,..

[Desmostylus]

If you don't mind, I would like to IM or email you. Let me know. I'm thinkin' you'd be in for a world of pain, Deadly.

[JerseyDiamond]

I'm thinkin' you'd be in for a world of pain, Deadly.

I doubt it. All he would have to do is tell me to stop IMing or emailing him, and I would!

But whatever.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

In defense of JD, it's not her intention to berate or proselytize anybody. She's been engaged in a study of comparative religion and she's legitimately just trying to inform herself. I've been helping her some, via email. She really just wants to ask questions. So, Deadly, you won't be walking into a trap or anything. JD's not going to attack you.

[Deadly Nightlight]

Sure Jersey. I think my email is in my profile. I am not much for debating my religious beliefs, however, I can tell you what exactly I do believe. Even though I am most closely aligned with the JW faith, they have a few beliefs that I am not absolutley sure about. I was lucky. My parents, who are also JW's, told me not to believe what they did just because they did, but believe because I have searched out the truth for myself. They never pressured me too much.

All In all, I get the occasional JW at my door,(people from out of town usually), and if I ran into the behavior that the OP did, I would not hesitate to call the Kingdom Hall. The JW in the OP makes us all look bad. Of course I think I must be the only person who gets Catholics, and Mormons, and Baptists at my door. *shrug*

[SentientMeat]

She's been engaged in a study of comparative religion and she's legitimately just trying to inform herself.Well done, Jersey. That's a truly admirable approach. Give old Diogenes a rigorous interrogation!

[Desmostylus]

I doubt it. All he would have to do is tell me to stop IMing or emailing him, and I would!

But whatever.I'll take DtC's word for it and offer you my apologies, JD.

[raindog]

The beliefs of JWs are a belief system; and as such an individual has the freedom to *choose* whether to participate, or even to listen, to their proseltyzing.

Reading through this thread I was struck by a couple things. First, it's probably worth clearling up a few of the things thrown out as semi-facts:

1) There is no "policy" against "witnessing" at one's workplace. In fact JWs are encouraged to share their faith at work in appropriate ways and at appropriate times. They would be sensitive to "stealing time" and would use both tact and discretion. They would also be sensitive to perceived harrassment. (more on this later)

2) It would be EXTREMELY unusual to see JWs at your (residential) front door (in the USA anyway) at 8:00 a.m. Between 9:30 and 10:00 a.m. would typically be the earliest you would see them in a residential neighborhood. In urban areas you may see them downtown on streetcorners as early as 7:00 a.m. (I'm *NOT* saying that they weren't there at 8:00 a.m. that day; just that it would be very unusual. You didn't take some creative license in recording the time to make the story more interesting and more sinsister would you?.......)

3) There is no "point system" that has them earning cool points in heaven. In fact, the overwhelming amount of JWs don't believe they will go to heaven. (or a burning hell for that matter)

4) There is a protocal in place for those who feel strongly that they don't want JWs to call on them. Their address is placed on a "Do not call" list for 1 year. Every morning that list is reviewed for the particular neighborhood that they will be working in. Do JWs occasionally screw up and call on a home that has stated they wish to not be contacted? yep. But every effort is made to respect the wished of people in the community. JWs will follow up in one year to see if the homeowner still feels the same way. If so, the name is kept on the list. If you feel strongly about this, call the local kingdom hall and tell them you wish not to be contacted. It's simple and easier than running down the street with a sword. (But less fun in the re-telling........)

5) JWs don't "reject" anyone. OTOH, they're not in the community to engage in debates. Nor are they any more keen on the idea of being riduculed. If you're interested in a debate, you're not likely going to find many JW takers.

6) JWs are not forcing *anything* on *anyone*. (Any more than the onslaught of political ads we'll be subjected to in the coming months) Theirs is a belief system. That's it folks. No different on those who espouse strong views on the war in Iraq, abortion, politics etc etc. (And none of those topics are discussed on the company dime?.....) If their views are particularly objectionable because it's on your front steps, see item 4 above for some relief.

7) JWs aren't "selling" anything. Nor are JWs profiting individually one single red cent. The literature is available without charge if there is sincere interest. It is a fact that the cost of supporting their ministry costs money. Donations help support the work. If you choose to listen to their message there is *NO* obligation to contribute.

8) There is prohibition on JWs playing musical instruments. (??)

9) JWs consider themselves Christians. They are less concerned with the collective weight, tradition and doctrinal opinion of those Christian religions which seek to put Jesus on par with Jehovah as part of a Trinity than what the Bible has to say on the matter. They are quite able to make a primae facia case (from the bible) to support that belief. You may choose to believe otherwise. Cool! But it's another thing entirely to say that they're not Christian because you believe differently.

[js_africanus]

He needs to be informed by his own church that what he did was against the rules.
Exactly. There is nothing christians are better at than following their own rules.

Once, when I was a kid, my brother had a friend over who was wearing a t-shirt that said something to the effect of "And God said insert some version of Maxwell's equations here and there was light."

I don't know what exactly the equation was, but it did send a couple of Yahweh's Witnesses packing in a big hurry. Or were they Elohim's Witnesses? I get the two mixed up.

[Cardinal]

Yeah, I've been woken by them and resented it. I think my current reply would be, "Look, I go to Vineyard (local church with many daughter congregations), and I know why I go there and why I'm not JW, and I'm going to save us a some time here. Bye." [close door]

[justanoldvet]

Yeah, I've been woken by them and resented it. I think my current reply would be, "Look, I go to Vineyard (local church with many daughter congregations), and I know why I go there and why I'm not JW, and I'm going to save us a some time here. Bye." [close door]


This may be an old thread.. but I can't resist putting in my two cents worth:

When I lived in Ca, I had some JWs come to the door and , as I listened blurry-eyed and half asleep, they expounded on their spiel, culminating in " so, would you be interested in attending this Saturday?"

For once in my misbegotten life I had the perfect come back:

" Saturday? hmm let me look at my calender"
~glances at calender next to door~
Oh! Saturday! I'd really like to, but that's the day my coven is sacrificing an infant and a virgin to Satan. Would next week be ok ? "

~ looks innocent and receptive~

The pair of them looked like fish out of water; their mouths gaped open, they made some non-word sounds, then turned and left without a word.
Never had JWs come back.
~bows~

[Giraffe]

justanoldvet, please don't bump years-old threads. If you want to continue an old discussion, start a new thread and post a link in the OP.