Disgusting euphemisms

[Carnick]

If anyone calls me "differently-abled" again, I'm going to smash their face. Whatever happened to good ol' "handicapped"? That was a fine word, but it got deemed offensive by overly sensitive schmucks. What did it get replaced by? "Disabled." Oh, that's much better! Call me a cripple if you must, but don't use a goddamn sugar coated euphemism. It just makes things much, much worse, and it makes me gag.

And now people tell me I have to refer to blacks as "African Americans," otherwise I sound racist. Doesn't this strike anyone else as a tad hypocritical? Unlike some people, I don't like to divide my Americans up into groups. I refer to an American as a plain old fucking "American," no matter what color. What happens when an "African American" doesn't even live in America, or didn't even come from Africa? Hell, we all came from Africa, so it's a needless title anyway. Of course this also applies to Asian American, and other groups affected by the plague of euphemisms. I use African American as an example because I hear it the most.

Vertically challenged? Developmentally challenged? Physically challenged? Dear God, when is it going to end? Anyone who is human is challenged, period.

[GorillaMan]

My mother informed me recently that new education guidelines mean she can't refer to any of her pupils as 'mixed race' - they're now Children Of Dual Heritage. :rolleyes:

[county]

"Shithead" works for me, across the board. It crosses gender and racial and other lines with no problem. :)

[Gomez]

Well said! I completely agree. Differently abled is particularly grating. Do those who use it genuinely not realise just how patronizing it is?

Also, a poster in a recent thread (I forget whom) brought up the interesting and very valid point that African American is something of a misnomer anyway since it is used exclusively to refer to black people. This completely ignores white South Africans who presumably have to make up their own continent when it comes to filling in census forms and the like.

[SkeptiJess]

My daughter (who has Cerebral Palsy) also loathes "differently abled." She is 16 and so usually uses "disabled" as that is what she's used to; nor does she object to "handicapped." You know which one she really hates, though? "Handicapable." She doesn't like that one at all.

[London_Calling]

Only yesterday I was talking to an African-Cheese eating surrender monkey (cool accent).

[Profane]

Also, a poster in a recent thread (I forget whom) brought up the interesting and very valid point that African American is something of a misnomer anyway since it is used exclusively to refer to black people. This completely ignores white South Africans who presumably have to make up their own continent when it comes to filling in census forms and the like.

I always have to laugh when I hear people like Nelson Mandela referred to as African American.

[Dogzilla]

Nelson Mandela = South African

Charlize Theron = South African

You can't BE an African American until you BECOME an American.

If you're African, regardless of color, you're still an African.

Hello?

[Chanteuse]

I so totally agree with you! One I heard years ago to refer to fat people was "horizontally challenged." AFAIK, this one never caught on. I'm glad, because it made this FAT person want to hurl!

[UrbanChic]

And now people tell me I have to refer to blacks as "African Americans," otherwise I sound racist. What people are telling you this? I don't use the phrase African American and I'm quite a lovely shade of brown. It is highly unlikely you'd be branded a racist for using the term black. At the very worst, you could possibly be accused of being culturally insensitive and that's a far cry from racist. To the people who would accuse you of being culturally insensitive for using the term black, well, fuck 'em.


Juanita 'Black' Tech

[Fern Forest]

My mother informed me recently that new education guidelines mean she can't refer to any of her pupils as 'mixed race' - they're now Children Of Dual Heritage. :rolleyes:
If I were her student I would instantly demand my third, forth, fifth, etc. heritage were recognized? I am a person of duodecuple heritage.

[Fern Forest]

I guess I should say not to harass her but make whatever poorly defined point I intended. Hopefully she would report it and policy would change. I really have to work on my activism.

[Malacandra]

Isn't "Disgusting Euphemism" an oxymoron??

(sorry,"oxy-intellectually-challenged") :D

[MissTake]

My dad's response to people commenting on his disability?

I'm a fucking gimp. Not "specially abled". Not "physically challenged". I'm a gimp.

I love my dad.

[SentientMeat]

I also struggled to see why 'handicapped' was ditched. A handicap is, literally, an extra burden placed on horses so that they cannot run as fast. This is, to me, more dignified and accurate a phrase than all the current alternatives.

[sailor]

Is Aristide an African-American? Is Haiti part of "America"?
Or is he an "African-Haitian"?
And now that he is settling in Africa will he be and "African-American-African"?

South African blacks are "African-Africans"?
Whites in South Africa are "European-Africans"?

If a South African white person settles in the USA is he an "African-American"?
Or a "European-African-American"?

And don't get me started with "Hispanic". If you are of European descent you are white. . . unless you were born in latin America in which case you are Hispanic. . . unless your parents were US citizens in which case you are white. . . unless you can't speak English in which case you are Hispanic. . . unless. . .

[Metacom]

If I were her student I would instantly demand my third, forth, fifth, etc. heritage were recognized? I am a person of duodecuple heritage.
As a Mexican-German-English-Irish-Dutch American, I prefer "mutt". ;)

[FisherQueen]

On 'African-American:'

There wasn't anything specifically wrong with 'Negro,' which is just 'black' in Spanish, but it got tied up with a lot of negative connotations, so we ditched it. Fine.

'Colored' had potential, since it acknowledged the wide variety and range of colors. But the racists started using it, and we dropped it. So be it.

'Black' has some flaws, as a term, but it has a long history and everyone knows what it means. It seems to be working okay.

But 'African-American' is just too darned long. No language is ever going to discard a one-syllable word and replace it with a four-syllable word. If we decide to replace 'black' with something else, that's fine- but it had better not take longer to say.

[Malacandra]

Similarly, "The Spastics' Society" changed its name to "Scope", and I promptly started counting under my breath before the word "Scope" became a playground insult. I don't think I reached a hundred. :rolleyes:

And I was once mildly puzzled when I heard a news item on the radio about a panic at a zoo involving some people with "learning difficulties". There was a spot of... cognitive dissonance?... in my head between the idea of a public kafuffle and, say, a remedial-reading class, and then the penny dropped. If my prejudices concerning people whose "learning difficulties" are over, say, how to tie shoelaces or eat with a fork, need addressing, then so be it, but obscurantist waffle isn't the way to go about it.

scans the preceding sentence for comma abuse, then decides to let it be

[Mangetout]

Oh, I agree; I always call a spade a... errr... You Know What.

[lissener]

But 'African-American' is just too darned long. No language is ever going to discard a one-syllable word and replace it with a four-syllable word. If we decide to replace 'black' with something else, that's fine- but it had better not take longer to say.Let alone a seven-syllable term.

The first time I heard Jesse Jackson pull this one out, I thought it was stupid. "Black," it seems to me, emphasizes that the difference between races is superficial; skin deep, as it were. "African American" suggests a wider, cultural divide, which I don't think is helpful overall. I still prefer "Black"; whenever I say "African American" I feel like a PC weenie.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

I always have to laugh when I hear people like Nelson Mandela referred to as African American.

I guess he should be called an African-African. Meanwhile, Moammar Ghaddafi would be an Non-African-African. No, wait....

[Bippy the Beardless]

I so totally agree with you! One I heard years ago to refer to fat people was "horizontally challenged." AFAIK, this one never caught on. I'm glad, because it made this FAT person want to hurl!
Wouldn't Horizontally Challenged be a good PC term for a virgin ?

[matt_mcl]

It's not ' PC ' as that term is usually derogatorily understood, but there's a new expression making the rounds that I've complained about before. "Passed," meaning died. I don't mean to bitch at people who are just trying to be nice, but it's an absolutely stupid word, even worse than "passed away."

I was so sorry to hear your father "passed." He didn't "pass," it wasn't the damn SATs, it was glioblastoma multiforme.

Can't you just say "died?" Death is not rude. It happens to everybody. Feel free to dress it up as much as you want ("I was so terribly sorry to hear the sad news.." etc., etc., "...that your father died") but, I mean, really, I bore up his pall, you're not hiding reality from me somehow.

[Shade]

Wouldn't Horizontally Challenged be a good PC term for a virgin ?People who've only been done up against a wall might feel descriminated against.

Seriously, how do, say, news broadcasts, etc, who have chosen to use Af.-Am. meaning "black American" describe black non-Americans apart from "African-American whoops"? "African-Briton", etc would make sense, but I bet they don't.

I suppose the idea would be for people in Africa to be labeled more specifically, say as "South Africans" or "European South Africans" but I'm not really seeing that working...

[GorillaMan]

The English perspective: 'Afro-Caribbean' is the standard term in Britain to describe black immigrants from that region, and their descendents, who make up the majority of black people in this country. Black Americans are just called American, with black used without capitalisation if relevant. 'Hispanic' is hardly ever heard. 'Black British' is a standard term, with capitals, generally accepted by the communities in question: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=459

The other significant difference to American phrases is 'Asian' - here it tends to mean Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Sri Lankan. Japanese, Koreans etc are called by their nationalities, or 'SE Asian'.

[kaylasdad99]

A couple of years ago I picked up a Star Trek: The Next Generation novel and read it. Toward the end, a landing party comes across the remnants of a starship crew that had vanished some fifty years previously. Describing the ethnically diverse crew, the (so-called) author was pleased to call the black woman an "African-American."

Sheesh.

[jeevwoman]

My aunt had Downs Syndrome, and was born back in the day when she was called "retarded." So that is what we called her. She even belonged to the Association of Retarded Citizens (known now as simply The Arc, to avoid the use of retarded).

Of course, it's different if you call someone a 'retard' when they are of normal intelligence and you are using it as an insult, but in general, when referring to someone who actually IS retarded, then I never saw what the problem was. When I refer to my aunt now as retarded, I even feel self-conscious, like I am saying a bad thing by simply describing her. But guess what? First of all, SHE had no idea what the word meant (she was extremely low-functioning) and secondly, she was MY friggin' aunt. I think I am entitled to call her what I want.

And as for having to label children in the school system as one particular race, my mom tells the story of when she had an Israeli in her class. Since my mom was pissed at having to identify what each of the kids were, she marked him down as Asian, since geographically that is what he was. The school system nearly shit itself and said she had to i.d. kids based on "what they looked like." Yeah, that's REALLY p.c!

[yellowval]

I do agree that African-American is a silly term, especially when used in reference to someone from another country.
However, I do believe that the term "Native American" has merit. The term "Indian," of course, should be used to refer to someone who's from India. Calling a Native American an Indian makes as much sense as calling Nelson Mandela an African-American, IMO.

[mascaroni]

The English perspective: 'Afro-Caribbean' is the standard term in Britain to describe black immigrants from that region...

It might be the standard term for those who got their jobs from the Situations Vacant columns of 'The Guardian', but no black person that I know has ever described themselves as that and I know that if I referred to them as 'Afro-Caribbean' I would be the subject of intense and remorseless piss-taking.

Of course, this is in the Real World...where the standard term is 'Black'

What Local Authority/Civil Service Department/Quango do you work for GorillaMan?

Or maybe you live in Cornwall...


mascaroni... Anglo-Caucasian trichologically challenged person of uncertain parentage.

[whiterabbit]

What everybody else here said. Especially the whole disabled/handicapped thing. Either of those words seem like okay descriptions. What the hell is wrong with them?

I have a distantlyish related cousin (I'm not sure exactly how) who is mildly retarded. The word "retarded" doesn't make me cringe half as much as the word I'm told her mother used to describe her (undoubtedly in the Dramatic Whisper, you know the one) -- "afflicted." However, she's really come out of her shell in recent years and has a great life. She's learned to read, too, I guess nobody even tried to teach her when she was a kid. *sigh*

And I'm with matt_mcl. Death is a fact of life. My dad died eleven years ago this May. Calling it something else isn't going to make me feel any better about that fact -- I miss him like crazy.

[GorillaMan]

It might be the standard term for those who got their jobs from the Situations Vacant columns of 'The Guardian', but no black person that I know has ever described themselves as that and I know that if I referred to them as 'Afro-Caribbean' I would be the subject of intense and remorseless piss-taking.

Sorry - I did mean a standard externally-applied term.

What Local Authority/Civil Service Department/Quango do you work for GorillaMan?

None

Or maybe you live in Cornwall...

That'll be what the Location information is for then :rolleyes:

[Smeghead]

I knew a white guy from South Africa that described himself as "African-American," which tended to piss people off to no end.

[GorillaMan]

...oh, in any case, it appears The Guardian prefers 'African-Caribbean'. http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/page/0,5817,184844,00.html

[Apricot]

I try to call people what they've expressed a preference to be called.
Therefore, I use black, gay, asian, and indian as what I prefer to say without other input, but I'd rather identify someone else as whatever they say they are. Kind of riding the tide of the people around me. It doesn't really matter to me, just as long as I can figure it out.

Personally, I'm indian, Cherokee, or american indian. The "Native American" pushers forgot to ask the indians what they thought. It's not right to change a people's name to something YOU don't find offensive. That's as offensive as making the term in the first place. White people don't get to decide that anymore.

[Miller]

It's not ' PC ' as that term is usually derogatorily understood, but there's a new expression making the rounds that I've complained about before. "Passed," meaning died. I don't mean to bitch at people who are just trying to be nice, but it's an absolutely stupid word, even worse than "passed away."

I was so sorry to hear your father "passed." He didn't "pass," it wasn't the damn SATs, it was glioblastoma multiforme.

Can't you just say "died?" Death is not rude. It happens to everybody. Feel free to dress it up as much as you want ("I was so terribly sorry to hear the sad news.." etc., etc., "...that your father died") but, I mean, really, I bore up his pall, you're not hiding reality from me somehow.

Jesus H. Christ. "Passed" doesn't sound like he died, it sounds like he ate a big bowl of bran flakes, and spent the afternoon on the toilet.

Speaking as a guy who looks like he's shoplifting canned hams in his pants, I'm relieved that "plus-size" never caught on as a euphamism for "fat."

[Thaumaturge]

This is what is known as the 'euphamism treadmill'. It is what happens when a word becomes emotionally charged, and people try to change it without changing reason why it became emotionally charged in the first place. The new word gets the same connotations, and gets changed, until people wake up and realize the whole process is insanely stupid, and a waste of time. If you didn't have a negative image towards the group the word represented in the first place, you wouldn't have a need to change the word to try and steer your thoughts to where they should be.

People try to change their words to change their minds, but it doesn't work like that, and the whole process is doomed to failure. People instinctually realize this, which is why all but the most naiive of us get exasperated with the attempts of the clueless to get us to ride the euphamism treadmill with them.

Just say no to the euphamism treadmill.

[mascaroni]

Fair enough, GorillaMan, I was just pointing out that the Languague of Brent Council Social Services isn't the language that's used in the rest of the country.

I apologise for insulting you by insinuating you might be Cornish...

[GorillaMan]

Fair enough, GorillaMan, I was just pointing out that the Languague of Brent Council Social Services isn't the language that's used in the rest of the country.

I apologise for insulting you by insinuating you might be Cornish...


LOL...from my sister's experience in Brent, it seems that council know only five words: "We have lost your forms"

[Phèdre nó Delaunay]

I totally agree with everyone who hates "passed". Ugh! My father is dead, not "passed". If he had lived would it mean he "failed"?

[LurkMeister]

I swear I once overheard someone say that a recently deceased relative had been "taken home by the Lord."

[Bill Door]

I see nothing wrong with either the term "black" or "white" just as long as they are used as adjectives, not nouns. It should be black people or white people, not blacks and white. People are not the color of their skins. The only advantage to African-American is that it is a noun, but it's a lot less accurate than describing someone as a black American, or a black Frenchman, or a black African.

As far as the handicapped/disabled/whatever label goes, I'm pretty unconcerned about it either way. Because I can't see very well, I'm able to use the RAMP system in my area, or the Regional Access Mobility Program. It's a cute name for what I prefer to call the crip bus, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

If someone called me "handicapable" though, I'd do my best to beat them to death with my white stick.

[GaWd]

What people are telling you this? I don't use the phrase African American and I'm quite a lovely shade of brown. It is highly unlikely you'd be branded a racist for using the term black. At the very worst, you could possibly be accused of being culturally insensitive and that's a far cry from racist. To the people who would accuse you of being culturally insensitive for using the term black, well, fuck 'em.


Juanita 'Black' Tech

I was once thrown out of a luggage store when retelling a story about a black man who just happened to be a crackhead. He objected to me calling him black(this guy was asian), and started a huge ruckus which in turn caused my friend, the manager to ask both my brother and I to leave.

All that for relaying a humerous Las Vegas panhandler story. I'm still pissed off about the incident!

Sam

[Tars Tarkas]

saying "black people" or "white people" instead of "white" or "black" is redundant and smacks of "you people"

Isn't John Kerry's wife "African American" despite being Portugez?

[Bill Door]

saying "black people" or "white people" instead of "white" or "black" is redundant and smacks of "you people"

I'm gonna have to say I don't see the redundancy. There are plenty of black things that aren't people, as there are plenty of people who aren't black. We're not talking about round circles here.

As far as the "you people", "black people" is a phrase that, well, could be used by a black person to describe black people, while "you people" is not.

[Ace309]

Daniel Igali is a Nigerian-born freestyle wrestler who defected to Canada and then went on to win the Sydney (2000) Olympics at his weight class.

He was described as the first African-American Canadian to win an Olympic wrestling Gold.

[Punoqllads]

The idea of calling folk African-Americans does have a point to it. It's to emphasize that there is a cultural distinction to them, beyond the color of their skin. Compare it to Italian-American, Jewish-American, or Mexican-American.

Now, Africa obviously has many different cultures within it, but the idea is that those Africans who were forced into slavery here and their descendents developed a culture that is a common link between most black Americans. Feel free to poke holes in this viewpoint, but that's what Jackson was trying to say.

[BiblioCat]

[Smart-Ass]
Can I call myself a "Native American"? My family's been in American for about 150 years. Doesn't that make me a native of America?
[/Smart-Ass]

I actually should use Metacom's suggestion of Mutt. My ancestors are from England, Ireland, Scotland, Sweden and Norway. My kids have all that plus my husband's Italian, Greek and German heritage. :D

[Tars Tarkas]

I'm gonna have to say I don't see the redundancy. There are plenty of black things that aren't people, as there are plenty of people who aren't black. We're not talking about round circles here.


Context would explain what they were talking about. It is a waste of time to add in an extra word.

[Priam]

And I'm a faggot or a queer. Don't try to find polite ways to say this fact and sure as fuck don't tell people I'm "that way". It's a technically correct label and the fact that people sometimes use it as abuse isn't gonna scare this fag off it. Besides, it defangs things so beautifully to just say "Yup!" when someone throws them at you.

[Priam]

And I'm a faggot or a queer. Don't try to find polite ways to say this fact and sure as fuck don't tell people I'm "that way". It's a technically correct label and the fact that people sometimes use it as abuse isn't gonna scare this fag off it. Besides, it defangs things so beautifully to just say "Yup!" when someone throws them at you.

[Dog80]

.....It is highly unlikely you'd be branded a racist for using the term black. At the very worst, you could possibly be accused of being culturally insensitive and that's a far cry from racist.....


To me, "culturally insensitive" sounds like an euphemism for "racist".

[BiblioCat]

And I'm a faggot or a queer.
Doesn't that make you a *wink wink* nudge-nudge "confirmed bachelor"?

Kidding! I'm kidding!

[rkts]

I see nothing wrong with either the term "black" or "white" just as long as they are used as adjectives, not nouns. It should be black people or white people, not blacks and white. People are not the color of their skins.True, but saying a person "is black" -- referring to whole person as simply black -- puts no less priority on the color of their skin. Calling them "a black" is simply a shortening.

The creation of a noun from an adjective is very common and is responsible for countless everyday words: a blond is one who is blond, a president is one who presides (-ent being the equivalent of -ing), an accountant is one who accounts (-ant also), an official is one who holds office.

If you really wanted to maintain the triviality of skin color you would say "he is a person with black skin."

[matt_mcl]

I won't pretend to speak about terminology in the United States, but in the case of "Indian" here in Canada, we have a bit of a situation. "Indian" is still probably the most common colloquial term, but one would hope that saying "First Nations" would at least have the blessing of the Assembly of First Nations (http://www.afn.ca/).

[cheddarsnax]

So what are you trying to say, Priam? Are you "differently oriented"?


...

[Chotii]

So what are you trying to say, Priam? Are you "differently oriented"?


...

...differently orientated. Get it right.

[Priam]

After sitting through two hours of Margaret Cho live, I am officially feeling like a BIIIIG HOMO! Gawd it felt like a gay pride parade for the fag quotient of things (really hawt ones, too, so I ain't complaining). Sitting there with my mother was even better, but that's a story in and of itself.

I am not differently-oriented. I am not heterosexually challenged. I am not homosexually enhanced. I AM A BIG OLE QUEER BITCH! WOO WOO!

Because, in my experience, the delicate phrases aren't about defending my sensibilities. They're about defending the speaker's. And, quite frankly, FUCK THAT AND THE HORSE IT RODE IN ON. I don't need it and it ain't my job to make sure you're OK with my being a big faggot instead of, what was the term someone else used?, a "confirmed bachelor".

The only thing confirmed is my ticket on the cocksucker bus.

[Green Bean]

True, but saying a person "is black" -- referring to whole person as simply black -- puts no less priority on the color of their skin. Calling them "a black" is simply a shortening.

The creation of a noun from an adjective is very common and is responsible for countless everyday words: a blond is one who is blond, a president is one who presides (-ent being the equivalent of -ing), an accountant is one who accounts (-ant also), an official is one who holds office.

If you really wanted to maintain the triviality of skin color you would say "he is a person with black skin."As long as we're being persnickety here, I'd like to point out that black people's skin isn't black--it's usually brown.

[Weirddave]

Some of the differently abled, physically challanged people in this thread might get a kick out of the following story.

My friend Andy is in a wheelchair. One night, we were out bar hopping. We were going from one bar to another, neither of us drunk but we'd had a few. We're waiting for the light to change, when an older lady aproached us ( you know the kind, plump...er..horizonialy challenged, looks like she should be carrying a toy poodle around?) and said to Andy "My, you do so well with being physically challenged. As another poster said, it dripped with condesention, yet I'm sure the lady thought she was being as nice as can be. Andy cocked his head back, grinned his biggest grin and said:"Hell, I'm not physically challenged, I'm a fucking cripple!"

I promptly spit out a lung I was laughing so hard.

[Marley23]

Seriously, how do, say, news broadcasts, etc, who have chosen to use Af.-Am. meaning "black American" describe black non-Americans apart from "African-American whoops"? "African-Briton", etc would make sense, but I bet they don't.
It's been mentioned in other threads, but apparently some moron journalists (not myself or anybody else here, of course) are using the term "African-American" to describe black people no matter what country they're actually from, which is insane. African-American was never a good euphemism because it's less precise than the word it replaces. It doesn't just leave out white South Africans, it ignores the Arabs living in North Africa. It's really pretty ridiculous how nitpicky it's getting.

Weirddave, I have a friend in a wheelchair who's got a similar sense of humor about it. I was so relieved when I first heard him kid about it, I can't even begin to explain. He sometimes does play-by-play for our sports teams, here's a great quote he used during a football game: "That hole was so big that I could have [very long pause as he realizes that he can't run but that people listening on the radio don't know he's in a wheelchair and it would take too long to explain and it's not worth it] . . . run ... through it..." :D

[GorillaMan]

[Smart-Ass]
Can I call myself a "Native American"? My family's been in American for about 150 years. Doesn't that make me a native of America?
[/Smart-Ass]

You're a native American, but not a Native American. Small difference, but seems to be clear enough to me.

True, but saying a person "is black" -- referring to whole person as simply black -- puts no less priority on the color of their skin. Calling them "a black" is simply a shortening.

The creation of a noun from an adjective is very common and is responsible for countless everyday words: a blond is one who is blond, a president is one who presides (-ent being the equivalent of -ing), an accountant is one who accounts (-ant also), an official is one who holds office.

BUT...the implication of "A black" is that this is the most significant thing about the person in question. Which is hardly ever the case. There's nothing wrong with calling Bush 'President', because it IS important.

And you were unfortunate in choosing 'Blond' for your argument - never heard of Blonde Jokes?

[alexandra]

The English perspective: 'Afro-Caribbean' is the standard term in Britain to describe black immigrants from that region, and their descendents, who make up the majority of black people in this country. Black Americans are just called American, with black used without capitalisation if relevant. 'Hispanic' is hardly ever heard. 'Black British' is a standard term, with capitals, generally accepted by the communities in question: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=459

The other significant difference to American phrases is 'Asian' - here it tends to mean Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Sri Lankan. Japanese, Koreans etc are called by their nationalities, or 'SE Asian'.
or Oriental, which seems to be less offensive in Britain than the USA.
I find it odd that someone would prefer Afro Caribbean over Black British, it seems to imply that you aren't as British as white people, that you're still classed as foreign. Not that there's anything wrong with being foreign, but you know what I mean.
I don't have a problem with PC, maybe because I never hear objections to the terms black, handicapped, mixed race (in fact it would be nice if some people knew that that was the preferable term to half caste) etc.

[mascaroni]

...differently orientated. Get it right.
I'll second that...
And when did racialists become racists?
Or Peking become Beijing?
Or Bombay become Mumbai?

It's the BBC I tell you...

[GorillaMan]

The city was called Bombay for much of the last four hundred years. The origin of the name is obscure, but is often said to come from the Portuguese phrase bom bahia meaning "good bay". The name Mumbai has been used in the main local languages for as long, and is ascribed to the local goddess, Mumba (ai means mother in Marathi). The name of the city was changed to Mumbai by an act of the parliament in 1997. http://theory.tifr.res.in/bombay/

Nowt to do with the Beeb...


The words are often used interchangeably but a distinction can be made. A racialist is someone who believes in the superiority of one race (usually white) over another (usually black or coloured), and who voices their views when surrounded (and outnumbered) by representatives of the 'other' race...

A racist is more of a theorist, believing that race is what determines a person's characteristics, so that some races are superior to others

So not all racists are racialist, and vice versa. The BBC report correct usage here (had to throw in a Beeb link :p ): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2993908.stm

[mascaroni]

http://theory.tifr.res.in/bombay/

Nowt to do with the Beeb...




So not all racists are racialist, and vice versa. The BBC report correct usage here (had to throw in a Beeb link :p ): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2993908.stm

OK, I jumped to conclusions with 'Mumbai', but after 'Beijing'... and have you noticed the BBC have started pronouncing 'Newcastle' lately? Pandering to the myth that received pronunciation is a southern accent.
I look forward to the day when I hear a BBC newsreader say 'Wist 'am' or 'Lu'un'...
I won't hold my breath though, they can't even say 'Millwall' correctly.

The BBC link just proves my point...
The BBC calls him a racist, the judge called him a racialist...
While I can't imagine him being surrounded and outnumbered by those of another race at Port Vale v Oldham, he didn't come across as a deep-thinking theorist...

Another thing, Beeb lover, You'll be in Alisdair Campbell's Black Book - Come The Revolution you'll be first up against the wall...

[rkts]

BUT...the implication of "A black" is that this is the most significant thing about the person in question.No. It is not. It is simply a shortening.There's nothing wrong with calling Bush 'President', because it IS important.Again, there is no implication of importance in changing "president" from an adjective to a noun. It was done simply because "President" is shorter than "The one who is President."And you were unfortunate in choosing 'Blond' for your argument - never heard of Blonde Jokes?What in the world do you mean by this?

Are "blonde people jokes" somehow less offensive than "blonde jokes"?

Or do you think there wouldn't be blonde jokes if we called them "blonde people" instead of just "blondes"?

[Miller]

So not all racists are racialist, and vice versa. The BBC report correct usage here (had to throw in a Beeb link :p ): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2993908.stm

Huh. I always thought "racialist" was just the UK way of saying "racist." Like how you guys pronounce "aluminum." Didn't realize there was actually a difference between the two.

[Malacandra]

And I'm a faggot or a queer. Don't try to find polite ways to say this fact and sure as fuck don't tell people I'm "that way". It's a technically correct label and the fact that people sometimes use it as abuse isn't gonna scare this fag off it. Besides, it defangs things so beautifully to just say "Yup!" when someone throws them at you.

Well, if you say so, Priam, but I've learned on this board that for too many people, "faggot" is the last word they hear just before someone smacks the living daylights out of them with a bottle or whatever. So to demonstrate that I'm not wholly incorrigible, and because any putative hatred of gays I might have is far outweighed by the genuine hatred I do have for cruel and senseless violence, I've quietly resolved to restrict the use of the word to "a bundle of firewood" or "a delicious savoury English meatball, the composition of which you do not want to enquire too closely into".

OTOH, I understand that, like the N-word, it's okay to use it if you are one.

[Cosmopolitan]

Originally posted by Weirddave:Andy cocked his head back, grinned his biggest grin and said:"Hell, I'm not physically challenged, I'm a fucking cripple!" That sounds like something I'd say; "cripple" is the word I tend to use amongst people whom I know won't have a coronary upon hearing it. Heehee. I hate "physically challenged" & I loathe "differently abled". Gimme a fucking break.

[GorillaMan]

No. It is not. It is simply a shortening.

Well, I've tried to explain why it can be offensive, but you won't accept it. Don't blame me if people take offence at you using that word.

Again, there is no implication of importance in changing "president" from an adjective to a noun.
Yes there is. It becomes a title, which indicates importance.

Or do you think there wouldn't be blonde jokes if we called them "blonde people" instead of just "blondes"?
I've met plenty of people who hate being described as 'a blonde'.



The BBC link just proves my point...
The BBC calls him a racist, the judge called him a racialist...
Should have explained myself better - the magistrate described his behaviour, ie the outspoken chanting, as racialist. From this, we can draw the conclusion that the man is racist.

[hlanelee]

This is about a euphemism I do not like. I have a mental illness. Sometimes I think about hanging myself or electrocuting myself or making a quick left into oncoming traffic. In the past these thoughts have scared me, I have checked myself into a hospital. When they interview you for admission they always ask, "Do you want to hurt yourself?"

My reply is, "No, I want to die. I don't want to hurt anymore, that's the whole point."

[Shirley Ujest]

I swear I once overheard someone say that a recently deceased relative had been "taken home by the Lord."


Ohhh, this is really creepy and annoying.

If someone said this to me about my husband ( who is in perfect health, TYVM) I would say, " Well You just tell Jesus Christ and his Dad to get Mr. Ujest right back here, I need the screens put in for spring."

[Denis]

I'm being treated for depression. Before I was being treated, I was not "metally ill," I was crazy. I wasn't "self-destructive," I was suicidal.

Much that contributed to my latest depression was legal problems. I was cleared. However, I am not left with "issues" about the legal problems, I become enraged when reminded of them, though this happens less and less. (I got better!)

My personality impresses some people as "curmudgeonly." Please, just call me a prick and be done with it. Then decide whether or not you like me.

[Lady Eboshi]

The creation of a noun from an adjective is very common and is responsible for countless everyday words: a blond is one who is blond, a president is one who presides (-ent being the equivalent of -ing), an accountant is one who accounts (-ant also), an official is one who holds office.




I practice irony. Does that make me an iron? :D

[Max Carnage]

So what are you trying to say, Priam? Are you "differently oriented"?



Foul! That should be "differently Asianed"

[Anaamika]

I do agree that African-American is a silly term, especially when used in reference to someone from another country.
However, I do believe that the term "Native American" has merit. The term "Indian," of course, should be used to refer to someone who's from India. Calling a Native American an Indian makes as much sense as calling Nelson Mandela an African-American, IMO.

Oo! Personal pet peeve! Just let me try and get away with "Indian-American"* and see what people think. Especially since I'm very fair-skinned. I always use Native American, but I'm tired of having to say "I'm Indian." (pause, blank look) "From India." Sometimes I've even had people jump in the pause and ask me "what tribe?" I've resorted to saying "I was born in India."

*Not that I would call myself that anyway. I'm American, goddamnit.

[Feit C Taj]

Originally posted by Weirddave: That sounds like something I'd say; "cripple" is the word I tend to use amongst people whom I know won't have a coronary upon hearing it. Heehee. I hate "physically challenged" & I loathe "differently abled". Gimme a fucking break.

The big thing about all these terms is that they were made up, supposedly, to improve the "affected" person's self esteem, when in actuality, it's really for the speaker's.

You know, deep down, they're saying to themselves, "Oh I'm such a wonderful person because I'm being nice to the gimp!"

[whiterabbit]

Doktor Fluff, DING DING DING!!! You are so right it hurts.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I've never known a person with physical disabilities who didn't despise the term "differently-abled," but if you really want to get slammed in the nuts with a wheelchair call them "handi-capable." :D

OTOH, I've never encountered an African-American who objected to the word "black."

[pulykamell]

I am not aware of the term black being considered racist. Perhaps by some misinformed people, but I've never been called out on refering to an individual as black. "African-American" is a cultural identifier, much in the same way "Polish-American," "Italian-American," and "Irish-American" are. So far as I know about the history of the term, it was created to create inclusivity. I mean, seriously, think about it. I live in a Polish-American community, we have Polish-American pride day, we have a culture to be proud of and to celebrate. Every other ethnic community has some sort of hyphenated-American culture . So what's wrong with "African American"? It's a valid community and a well-defined culture. It's a culture separated from "Carribean-Americans" or other black Americans. I do not think African-American and Carribean-American are, or should be, interchangeable.
These hyphenated names are cultural constructs, not physical.

Furthermore, in mainsteram journalism, "black" IS the correct term when referring to a physical atrribute. (Per AP Style.) "African-American" is used to talk about the culture.

Words like "horizontally challenged" or "gravationally challenged" and their ilk are meant to be jokes. Apparently, some people got whooshed and are either trying to use it seriously, or misinterpreting people who use it in jest. I forget the name, but sometime in either the late 80s or early 90s, there was an entire book parodying PC and contained a collection of these sorts of euphamisms. It was a joke, people! But some people failed to see the humor and lambasted these phrases as PC brainwashers coming out to get ya.

UGHHH... PC is so misunderstood, it drives me nuts.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

I swear I once overheard someone say that a recently deceased relative had been "taken home by the Lord."
Don’t know where you are from, but I live in California and that’s a pretty common phrase for church people. There are several variants such as “Gone with Jesus” or “Gone home to be with the Lord”.
There isn’t any euphuism for death that stands up to scrutiny of the bereaved, IMHO.

[Max Carnage]

Of course if the dearly departed weren't much of a good person you have to say "the devil done took him" or "I guess he's in Hell now" in order to ease the blow of saying the word "dead".

[BurnMeUp]

I do agree that African-American is a silly term, especially when used in reference to someone from another country.
However, I do believe that the term "Native American" has merit. The term "Indian," of course, should be used to refer to someone who's from India. Calling a Native American an Indian makes as much sense as calling Nelson Mandela an African-American, IMO.

Except they weren't native Americans since it wasn't named America until people came and claimed the land out from under them anyway. Just to nitpick. :)

[Skeezix]

That, and the fact that Native Americans were Indians back when India was still Hindustan.

Or is my chronology in error?

[whiterabbit]

Perhaps the reason people take the joke PC terms even halfway seriously -- and I once SAW "vertically challenged" used in an article somewhere by a politician, yes that's a terrible cite but it's all I have -- is because the REAL ones are JUST AS SILLY.

Grrrrrrr.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

But 'African-American' is just too darned long. No language is ever going to discard a one-syllable word and replace it with a four-syllable word. If we decide to replace 'black' with something else, that's fine- but it had better not take longer to say.

Mmmmm...how about "Aframican"?


:D

[pulykamell]

Perhaps the reason people take the joke PC terms even halfway seriously -- and I once SAW "vertically challenged" used in an article somewhere by a politician, yes that's a terrible cite but it's all I have -- is because the REAL ones are JUST AS SILLY.

Grrrrrrr.

Example?

African-American --> not silly, IMHO, for reasons stated above.

Native American --> useful distinction as "Indian-American" and "American Indian" can be confusing for some people

Gay/lesbian --> as opposed to what? Homo, faggot, queer?

Handicapable --> This is stupid, but is it PC? Says who? Disabled is fine. Handicapped is fine. I don't see any big objection to either of these terms, although disabled seems to be in preference. Differently-abled? Some more vociferous PC adherents might champion its use, but I don't find there to be be firm opposition to any of the other words.

Listen, PC is mostly about politeness. Call people what they want to be called. Yet people foam at the mouth at mere mentions of these initials, because pop culture has perverted what was a sensible concept.

Bashing PC is so passe.

[Carnick]

Example?

African-American --> not silly, IMHO, for reasons stated above.

Native American --> useful distinction as "Indian-American" and "American Indian" can be confusing for some people

Gay/lesbian --> as opposed to what? Homo, faggot, queer?

Handicapable --> This is stupid, but is it PC? Says who? Disabled is fine. Handicapped is fine. I don't see any big objection to either of these terms, although disabled seems to be in preference. Differently-abled? Some more vociferous PC adherents might champion its use, but I don't find there to be be firm opposition to any of the other words.

Listen, PC is mostly about politeness. Call people what they want to be called. Yet people foam at the mouth at mere mentions of these initials, because pop culture has perverted what was a sensible concept.

Bashing PC is so passe.

I refer to myself as disabled, simply because I hear it the most. That being said, if I could choose I'd pick handicapped. While "handicapped" suggests a disadvantage, "disabled" implies the person is lacking all functionality. Today my professor lovingly called me a "gimp," and it was so damn refreshing I started laughing. But that's just this gimp's opinion.

Regarding PC, I disagree. I don't think it's about politeness. I think it's about censorship of language and thought. Sure, by being PC the speaker probably has the best intentions in mind, but intentions can often lead us astray. By using an anesthetized word, the speaker dulls the impact its of meaning, thereby softening it for their own well being. No one wants to think of someone as a cripple. Just look away and call him differently-abled, and everything'll be pretty. I'll stop bashing PC when it leaves me alone.

As far as people considering me racist for using the term "black," well... I live in California and hang out in the UCSD theater department, which is probably the liberal capitol of the country.

- Carnick

[whiterabbit]

Regarding PC, I disagree. I don't think it's about politeness. I think it's about censorship of language and thought. Sure, by being PC the speaker probably has the best intentions in mind, but intentions can often lead us astray. By using an anesthetized word, the speaker dulls the impact its of meaning, thereby softening it for their own well being. No one wants to think of someone as a cripple. Just look away and call him differently-abled, and everything'll be pretty. I'll stop bashing PC when it leaves me alone.

As far as people considering me racist for using the term "black," well... I live in California and hang out in the UCSD theater department, which is probably the liberal capitol of the country.

I've never been corrected for referring to somebody as black. I don't have any real argument with African-American except that it's so damn long. And if we're going to get into hypenated-American then I'd be English-Irish-Russian Jewish-American, which would be getting into the realm of the ridiculous. (I realize that's more specific than African-American, but that's because I am fortunate enough to know what countries my ancestors came from. Obviously not everybody is.) Why does almost everybody get a hyphen except us white people? (Okay, Native American lacks a hyphen as well, but it is at least an more-or-less accurate description, though I'm given to understand Indian is commonly used.) Is it because we're assumed to be Americans first and anything else second? So does this mean nobody ELSE is assumed to be American first and anything else second? And am I the only person who finds this odd? I have not the slightest problem with people having different cultures and heritages. I am not saying we should all be alike. But we're all Americans, right?

Concerning PC labels for us handicapped, I think the thing that gets lost is that there are people who don't want to be called whatever is supposed to be the "polite" term. Therefore, it's rude to call them that. And really, who would want to be called something like "handicapable?" Gag. I wouldn't go around calling strangers gimp or cripple, but again, I don't think I've known anybody who'd have real objections to handicapped or disabled.

[inkleberry]

Wouldn't Horizontally Challenged be a good PC term for a virgin ?

Hymenlly-endowed.
Nonpartnered sexual.

[Skeezix]

Monosexual? Solosexual? Manusexual? Digisexual?

[Chanteuse]

I think what gets on people's nerves is not that others are trying to be nonoffensive in their speech. It's that so many of these terms come across as patronizing in their tone. "This poor person won't be able to handle it if I refer to his/her condition politely, but bluntly, so I'll use a sanitized 'upbeat' sounding word to boost his/her self-esteem, and doesn't that make me sensitive and thoughtful?"

It's all in how something is said. Someone can really hurt my feelings if they come up and say, "Damn, woman, you sure are FAT!!" OTOH, if someone says, "Ok, so you're fat. No big deal, everyone has flaws!" I don't find the word hurtful. And the word "overweight" is fine too, as long as the usage is NOT meant to insult. But terms like "weight-challenged" (I heard that once, but I can't remember where) are obnoxious and condescending.

And although I myself am not "physically challenged" *snicker*, I think the term "handicapable" is just about the most patronizing, condescending word I've heard on this thread!

[Weirddave]

Is it because we're assumed to be Americans first and anything else second? So does this mean nobody ELSE is assumed to be American first and anything else second? And am I the only person who finds this odd? I have not the slightest problem with people having different cultures and heritages. I am not saying we should all be alike. But we're all Americans, right?


I've always felt that hyphenated-American is Un-American. The idea of this country is that anyone can come here and make it their home and be one of us, right? Hyphenated-American gets that backwards, emphesizing the differences between people rather than what they have in common. "American of *blank* descent" is fine if one is discussing an issue where cultural context is important, but other than that, plain old "American" should be the default.

[whiterabbit]

I don't mean to sound like a right-wing "we are Americans, if you don't like it, leave!" sort in case anybody was thinking that. I am genuinely confused by the hyphenation issue.

[PalJuicy]

A PC question:
Why haven't they changed the name for "The United Negro College Fund"?

[Fionn]

Why does almost everybody get a hyphen except us white people?


I've occasionally seen European-American or Euro-American used in place of white.

[whiterabbit]

I've run across that a time or two, but it was always associated with white supremacists. You know, the "Our European-American rights are being STOLEN!" sort of shit. Your experience may be different.

I am all for politeness, and I'll call you anything you want, but I still don't see what's wrong with "black" or any non-hyphenated descriptions (aside from obvious racial slurs, of course). Honestly, I REALLY don't want to go around offending people. I've had enough stupidity directed my way to not want to shove it at other people deliberately.

[Khadaji]

I thought of this thread yesterday when I was reading an article on how there is an animal rights group that wants to rename pet ownership to pet gaurdianship. Link (http://slate.msn.com/id/2096577/) (The overall gist of the article was agains this) The group says:The benefits of relating to animals as guardians rather than as owners would be "far reaching," wrote IDA president Dr. Elliot Katz (who's no relation). Changing how we speak would help change how we act I think this is the thinking in general. So we change "handicapped" to "disabled" and then when that takes on a percieved negative connotation by some well-meaning group, we change "disabled" to "differently abled" all the time believing that by changing our language, we will change how we act. I'm not convinced it works.

[pulykamell]

I am all for politeness, and I'll call you anything you want, but I still don't see what's wrong with "black" or any non-hyphenated descriptions (aside from obvious racial slurs, of course).

Dammit. There IS nothing wrong with black. Who is telling you there is? Like I've said before, the mainstream media accepts "black" as the standard description of someone with dark skin. It's not offensive, and I've personally never heard anyone claim it is. Some hypervigilant people think African-American is a synonym for black, but these people are wrong. Like I've said before, it describes a culture, not a physical characteristic.

As for hyphenated-Americans, there are plenty of them. Come to Chicago. Here we have Polish-American pride, Italian-American pride, Irish-American pride. There's no shortage of hyphens here. Once again, these hyphenated names are used when the person's culture is an important detail.

[Spiff]

Hymenlly-endowed.
Nonpartnered sexual.Masturbator. Onanist.

Oh, and because I have full function of all my limbs, you can call me "temporarily abled."

('Coz you never know what might happen ...)

[GorillaMan]

Dammit. There IS nothing wrong with black. Who is telling you there is? Like I've said before, the mainstream media accepts "black" as the standard description of someone with dark skin. It's not offensive, and I've personally never heard anyone claim it is.

Using 'black' as an adjective is fine - it's using it as a noun that can cause offence. We talk about 'fat people' or 'tall people', not 'fats and talls'. There's no reason to talk about 'blacks'.

[Khadaji]

Dammit. There IS nothing wrong with black. Who is telling you there is? Like I've said before, the mainstream media accepts "black" as the standard description of someone with dark skin. It's not offensive, and I've personally never heard anyone claim it is. <SNIP>
A white friend married a black woman. We live in PA and her folks live in LA. Another friend and I flew to LA to be in the wedding. We were, accepting the groom and his brothers, the only two white folk there. We were telling a story relating to being the only two white men at a black wedding and the Bride said "Excuse me?" We were confused. "We prefer African American thank you very much." Sure, this is only one incidense, but I know that I have been told it is, not just this time, but by others as well.

[pulykamell]

Using 'black' as an adjective is fine - it's using it as a noun that can cause offence. We talk about 'fat people' or 'tall people', not 'fats and talls'. There's no reason to talk about 'blacks'.

Well, I guess I've never used it in this sense, so perhaps that's why I've never gotten in trouble for it. For whatever reason "blacks" seems to carry a certain negative connotation that "black people" doesn't.

[cuauhtemoc]

Using 'black' as an adjective is fine - it's using it as a noun that can cause offence. We talk about 'fat people' or 'tall people', not 'fats and talls'. There's no reason to talk about 'blacks'.
This seems arbitrary. Suppose I insist that the term "black people" is offensive, and the only acceptable term is "people who are black"? Should I expect to be taken seriously? I hope you'd tell me to go fuck myself.

[whiterabbit]

This seems arbitrary. Suppose I insist that the term "black people" is offensive, and the only acceptable term is "people who are black"? Should I expect to be taken seriously? I hope you'd tell me to go fuck myself.

Obviously you have not heard of "people-first" terminology. Yep, instead of, say, retarded people you have "people with mental retardation." Like that's really going to make the assholes who stare and make rude comments stop and think twice about the peopleness of those they are staring at and making rude comments about. Riiiiiiiiiight.

[Shade]

A white friend married a black woman. We live in PA and her folks live in LA. Another friend and I flew to LA to be in the wedding. We were, accepting the groom and his brothers, the only two white folk there. We were telling a story relating to being the only two white men at a black wedding and the Bride said "Excuse me?" We were confused. "We prefer African American thank you very much." Sure, this is only one incidense, but I know that I have been told it is, not just this time, but by others as well.Well, it does suggest an unfortunate comparison with "white wedding" :D

[TBG]

With "Native American" aren't you just quibbling over time? If someone who's ancestors came here (by here I mean America, since that's where I am, no offense to anyone else, that wouldn't be PC!) by boat from Europe 150 years ago isn't "Native", then why should someone who's ancestors came over a landbridge from Asia centuries and centuries eariler be "Native"? Everybody's got immigrants in their ancestry, you just have to go back far enough.

Frankly, I think it's best to use the name of the tribe (if you know it) or Indian (or since you have to differentiate from people from India, American Indian.) Though I must admit, at one point I got so sick of having "Native American" shoved down society's collective throat, I took to calling them "Native Indians" out of protest. (And yes, I realize that would technically be someone from India, that was the point, being even more absurd than the PC crowd.)

[RussellM]

I think you're missing the point here Punoqllads

The idea of calling folk African-Americans does have a point to it. It's to emphasize that there is a cultural distinction to them, beyond the color of their skin. Compare it to Italian-American, Jewish-American, or Mexican-American.


Nelson Mandella is not American and does not live in America - but is often described as African-American. He is also not African-Spanish or African-Norwegian

Surely the one common feature of anyone described as X-American, is that they should, at the very least, be living in America and consider themselves to be American?

[cowgirl]

Surely the one common feature of anyone described as X-American, is that they should, at the very least, be living in America and consider themselves to be American?

Very sensible. I know quite a few black people who are neither African nor American.

[GorillaMan]

Can anybody provide an actual example of Mandela being described as African-American? I can find plenty of websites which identify him as an important figure in African-American history, which is something different.

[Tentacle Monster]

Red, brown, yellow, black or white:

We're all pink on the inside. And isn't that what really counts?

[j666]

On death:
I can handle most of the euphemisms; the one I just can't take is 'lost'.

'I heard you lost your mother last year.'

'No, that was my car keys, Mom's in the grave, right next to Dad.'

Maybe I wouldn't be so sensitive if I didn't lose my keys so often ...


Reading the debate about 'black', 'black people' and 'people who are black', I realized that I never use any of them. I use 'black' only as an adjective to describe some-one ('The man over there ... no, the tall one ... he has on the red tie ... the black guy.')

If for some reason I am talking about a specific sub-group of Americans, usually there is a cultural component, so I use African-American.

I would like to add that I would prefer people used European-American to 'Anglo'. I move we act to take that perfectly nice term back from the racialist, or the racist.

[BiblioCat]

On death:
I can handle most of the euphemisms; the one I just can't take is 'lost'.

'I heard you lost your mother last year.'

'No, that was my car keys, Mom's in the grave, right next to Dad.'

Maybe I wouldn't be so sensitive if I didn't lose my keys so often ...

Another one for dying that I've heard quite a bit recently....
"I buried my mother last week."

Uh, did you actually dig the grave? Were you out there with a shovel? No?
Then you didn't "bury" her. You may have arranged her funeral services, but you didn't bury her; that was the guy at the cemetary with the backhoe. Sorry if that sounds insensitive, but I keep hearing people say this, and it annoys me.

It ranks right up there with men saying, "We're pregnant." No, I'm sorry, just your wife is pregnant. You're expecting a baby with her, but unless you've had some revolutionary medical procedure, you're not the one who is pregnant, okay?

[pulykamell]

Can anybody provide an actual example of Mandela being described as African-American? I can find plenty of websites which identify him as an important figure in African-American history, which is something different.

Yeah, I keep hearing this claim too. That he's "often" described as African-American? Where? By whom? A bunch of brainless inbreds who don't know their heads from their asses? I'm sure there's some idiot some where out there in the net who has said this, but that hardly qualifies as often. Usually, people describe him as South African or African.

[LVgeogeek]

I personally dislike the whole PC, soft language, euphimisms that try to make people feel better about themselves. I call them as I see them.

As a Jew I really dislike "Jewish American".... people do not refer to themselves as a Catholic American or a Prodistant American or even an Athiest American.... it just sounds silly. Plus a religeon does not necessiarily indicate a country of "origin" or a race of people (think Hitler here) religeon is not the same thing as race.

Then again I am not one for be a separatist or whatever. I think there would be less problems perhaps if we Americans just called ourselves Americans. No more of this breakdown-every-aspect-of-your-background-to-feel-special. Just remember you are unique, just like everyone else :)

[Ellis Dee]

Personally, I'm indian, Cherokee, or american indian. The "Native American" pushers forgot to ask the indians what they thought. It's not right to change a people's name to something YOU don't find offensive. That's as offensive as making the term in the first place. White people don't get to decide that anymore.I read an article a few years back about offensive sports team nicknames. Specifically the Washington Redskins, but the Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves were also mentioned. The article listed statistics supposedly showing that the vast majority of American Indians had no problem with the team names.

I'm not looking for the end-all be-all answer here, but I'm just curious: do you personally find those names offensive?

[Talon Karrde]

I never knew that Native American bothered people. I personally use that one because it's less confusing than Indian, but also it serves as a reminder that they were here first and it should be remembered what we did to them.

[LifeOnWry]

I read an article a few years back about offensive sports team nicknames. Specifically the Washington Redskins, but the Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves were also mentioned. The article listed statistics supposedly showing that the vast majority of American Indians had no problem with the team names.

I'm not looking for the end-all be-all answer here, but I'm just curious: do you personally find those names offensive?

Yeah, this was a big deal at the University of Illinois, with its Fighting Illini. Actually, I think it had more to do with the mascot than the name of the team. I am not a sportsy person, but I want to say the mascot is Chief Redskin, or something like that. And IIRC, the mascot IS a caricature - big headdress, big nose, tomahawk, etc.

I'm an Italian-Spanish-Swedish-German-French-American :rolleyes: What I find entertaining about that is that when people meet me, their first question is almost ALWAYS, "Are you Asian?"

[Apricot]

I read an article a few years back about offensive sports team nicknames. Specifically the Washington Redskins, but the Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves were also mentioned. The article listed statistics supposedly showing that the vast majority of American Indians had no problem with the team names.

I'm not looking for the end-all be-all answer here, but I'm just curious: do you personally find those names offensive?

Personally, I do not find them offensive. Being over the top is an american trait, and I put the team names into that spirit. But a lot of people do find them offensive. I think it often depends on the context, respect or funning. I support other people with personal knowledge who want to change them. It's similar to the fact that I'll never understand what it is like to live in an area with de-facto segregation, like that still exisiting in some southern states. If people who live it say it is discrimation, I believe them. It doesn't matter what I think.