Logging IP numbers

[Ed Zotti]

To help us weed out sock puppets and whatnot, we started logging IP numbers, which is why that little "IP: LOGGED" deal has started appearing on the lower right of each post. We didn't want to post the actual IP for fear of giving hackers ideas. However, now that I see this thing in place, it looks a little ominous. It's not like we need it that bad. We already scan your hard drive for bank statements, XXX-rated pictures, etc. Let me know if it freaks anybody out.

[Arnold Winkelried]

Maybe it's the word "logged" that seems ominous. If you replaced it with another word, such as
IP: Here
it would be less threatening to some people. (of course, it might be confusing.)

[Bricker]

Um... Ed, just so you know, those naked pictures of Ernest Borgnine I have were strictly for research purposes.

[Missy2U]

Ed - it doesn't bother me one bit. With all the wierdness on the 'net, it's probably a good idea.

[John Corrado]

Oooh, say, so long as you're getting my bank statements, can you e-mail them back to me? I still need to do my taxes...

Anyways, logging the ISP sounds like a fine plan to me.

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JMCJ

"Y'know, I would invite y'all to go feltch a dead goat, but that would be abuse of a perfectly good dead goat and an insult to all those who engage in that practice for fun." -weirddave, set to maximum flame

The flaws in IP logging, as anyone who has stats on their web page knows, are:

Lots of sites, like AOL, and almost all the free ISP's (AltaVista, Bluelight, NetZero, FreeI, WorldSpy.net, Freewwweb, etc...) give all neighboring users the same ISP #, and switch IP's constantly as more people log in.

If you have a fixed IP, like at school or work, all your co-workers have the same one.

If you log in from a public place, like a school computer lab or library, BOTH of the above kick in.

The result? About 50% of users seem to live in Vienna, VA., which is somebody's hub.

Also, a sock puppet can switch between free ISP's and get free email addresses every day (from all of the above and more), to get a clean slate whenever they wanna. :)

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I love the nightlife, I gotta boogie!

[Munch]

How about IP: GOTCHA ? Or maybe IP: CATALOGUED AND REFERENCED ?

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I ask not what you can do for me, but what you can do for me right now.

[OpalCat]

Vienna, VA is AOL :)

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[Ed Zotti]

I agree, the IP often doesn't tell you much. As a dialup AOL user, I'm going to check my own IP whenever I post to see how wide a range of IPs I get assigned. If three out of four quads change, obviously IPs are going to be pretty useless as a way of nailing sock puppets who use big ISPs.

A freemail account doesn't affect your IP, I'm pretty sure. How easy it is to change ISP's frankly I don't know.

[testsphelan]

this is a test

[testsphelan]

another test

[RTFirefly]

Well, anything that can help you guys keep up with reappearances of banned trolls is all to the good, IMO. You guys can play with it and find out how helpful it really is, but if it even gets a few of those guys when they bounce right back up again, it's a good thing.

Whether it works or not, thanks for trying to do something about the trolls. I, for one, appreciate the effort.

[Anti Pro]

"IP number" is for my Internet Service Provider?? That's the same as the ISP, right?

So, when you have 'logged' in the corner, are you doing that? Is it coming up automatically as a reminder you have us in the system ?

My service provider is NetZero and I wasn't aware I had a number, do you already have mine because you have my e mail address, or is it something I have to go find out from them, and e mail it to you???

What is an ICQ number?? Is that only if you have your own web page, and since I don't, I don't have an ICQ either?

Thanks for all this initial training! I can only wish the hackers, sock puppeteers and multiple people were as ignorant as I about computer stuff! It would at least slow them down.
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Judy

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"Muck should replace 'suck'. For 'muck' is yucky, while 'suck' feels very lucky. So, don't stay stuck on suck, switch to MUCK, today."

[Anti Pro]

Oh! So, 'logged' does come up automatically, which means you DO have a number for me, okay, I'll save that worry spot in my head for something else! :D

[waterj2]

An internet service provider (ISP) will generally have a block of IP addresses. When you dial in, you will be assigned an IP address from that block. In order to use the Innternet at all, you need to have an IP address, as that is what tells routers where to send the information you ask for.

ICQ is a program you can download from www.icq.com (http://www.icq.com) that allows you to send instant messages to other people that have it. Each person has a number. It is similar to AOL Instant Messenger, which uses unique names rather than numbers.

Logged comes up to say they got your IP address. Some people are rather security conscious, and don't want others having this information, as it is what you need (among other things) to hack someone's computer. As long as you trust Ed not to do that, you don't have anything to worry about.

[Lord Jim]

Anti Pro, here's a few quick internet lessons. "IP" stands for internet protocol. An "IP address" is a number assigned to each computer that communicates on the internet. Your ISP (internet service provider) has a large block (sometimes thousands) of IP adresses that it assigns to it's users. If you use a dial-up connection, you would get an IP address from your ISP out of it's pool of addresses, each time you connected.

Your e-mail accounts are totally separate, although your IP address is included in your e-mail header.

ICQ is a service, like Instant Messenger, that you type back and forth with others in real time, kinda like private chat. If you use the ICQ you are assigned a number that identifies you. It is not an IP address, it's just an indentification number for the service.

Lastly, a personal web page is just like any other web page, except that you control what is dispayed. It has little to do with any of the above.

I know there are technical shortcomings in the above explanation, but I hope that explains some of the terms that are being thrown around.

JIm

[Max Torque]

I hope this means y'all have fixed all the "board goes up, board goes down" issues....in my experience, adding software to an already-unstable system is, shall we say, contraindicated.

[techchick68]

If you want to have an idea of what your IP address is, launch the MS DOS Prompt from Start > Programs

For Windows 9x machines, type in

winipcfg

For Windows NT machines type in:

ipconfig

I think that's right.

Write it down and check to see what your IP address is the next time you log on.

If you access here via your office's network and are behind a firewall, most likely your IP address will show up to the outside world as the same IP address.

[moriah]

I'm totally against indiscriminate IP logging. It's a rape of our national IP resources. How long do you think it will be before all the IPs are logged? What will we say to our children when they grow up in a world with no more IPs? We must carefully harvest IPs so that they are replenished by natural or cultivated IP growth. Think of the children, man!

Peace.

[Munch]

You know, moriah, I've wondered why in my jaunts about the country I've noticed a severe lack of old growth IP's. I hope you realize the repercussions of your actions, Ed, and are willing to live up to the responsibility.

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I ask not what you can do for me, but what you can do for me right now.

[Anti Pro]

JimB, Sometimes when I first hit the box that reads NET ZERO on the monitor screen a new phone number comes up and it tell me to decide if I want to add that to my 'list' of phone numbers to be 'used' to dial from. Does that mean I would have MORE than one IP number?

techchick, that would scare me half to death to go back to the black screen, I've seen my son do it in a heartbeat, but I'm scared I'd kill my computer for sure. I'm going to just cut and paste your directions and ask him to show me how to do it, when he comes home for the summer.
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Judy

[EnigmaOne]

{{{Sometimes when I first hit the box that reads NET ZERO on the monitor screen a new phone number comes up and it tell me to decide if I want to add that to my 'list' of phone numbers to be 'used' to dial from. Does that mean I would have MORE than one IP number?}}}---Anti Pro

Just more possibilities for a different number to be assigned to your computer once you are connected. You'll only have one number while you are actually connected though--normally.

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TheHungerSite.com (http://www.thehungersite.com)
"If our lives are indeed the sum-total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are; but with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be."

[EnigmaOne]

Oh yeah....forgot about this.

Ed I'm surprised that y'all didn't log IP addresses from the start, but I'm glad that you're doing it now.

If you do have problems in the future, ISP log files can track trouble down to a specific computer at a specific time--within limits, of course.

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TheHungerSite.com (http://www.thehungersite.com)
"If our lives are indeed the sum-total of the choices we've made, then we cannot change who we are; but with every new choice we're given, we can change who we're going to be."

[Andy]

I think this is a brilliant idea. With a bit of luck, i'll be able to check out with admin exactly where I posted from in the small hours of sunday morning.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Anti Pro for asking the questions that I'm too embarrassed to admit I don't know the answers to.

Where were you when I was a teenager and thought the noun "jerkoff" meant the same thing as "jerk"? :o

:)




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"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast!" - the White Queen

[Lord Jim]

Anti Pro,
First, for most dial-up connections, knowing your IP address isn't much benefit. It changes with each connection. But, if you want to know what it is, you can click the Startbutton, click Run, type in winipcfg. You should end up with a window named IP Configuration. There will be a selection box at the top. If you are connected to your ISP, one of the selections will have an IP address other than 0.0.0.0. That's your IP address. It'll probably be different the next time you dial-in, though.

As far as different phone numbers goes, each phone number is actually a group of phone lines that each connect to a modem that is connected to a port with an IP address. When too many customers call into one phone number they start getting busy signals. The ISP adds another Phone line/modem/port/IP address group. So when you call the alternate number, you are getting a different IP address from a separate group of addresses.

Confused enough yet? Anyway, hope that helps a little.

Jim

[tshirts]

Correction: "Notthemama" spelled backwords is "anathema" "someone to be cursed, reviled, or shunned".
Id est, by reversing, "dennuhs ro ,deliver ,desruc eb ot enoemos".
This explains a lot about his postings, I thinkso. :D

[WillGolfForFood]

Just in case some of the lurkers aren't aware of it...

Your dial-in ISP (probably) gives you a different IP address every time you dial in. However, unless you're accessing the Internet via a proxy server, you're the only person in the world who's using that particular IP address >>at that particular time<< - and most ISPs maintain logs recording which userID (and, if the caller isn't blocking caller ID, which calling phone number) was using each of their IP addresses at any given time.

I do consulting work for a government organization that maintains a dial-up service for its employees. The dialup service is there to give its employees access to the organization's computers - but, given that anyone on their organization's LAN is also on the Internet, it works as an ISP as well. The purchased software they use maintains logfiles containing the start time, stop time, userID, IP address assigned, and (if available) calling number of every dialin session. Anyone who signs up for that (free) service has to sign an agreement that they will only be using it within certain guidelines. Everyone using the service is aware of those callin logfiles.

Every once in awhile, they get a request from authorities who are tracking down cases of fraud or criminal/threatening behavior coming from one of their IP addresses. When that happens the ISP administrator goes through those callin logs to find out just who was responsible and hands that information over to the proper authorities. The ISP administrator told me that he's had to go to court several times to testify that yes, those are accurate logfiles.

[Anti Pro]

JimB, I think I'm getting closer to understanding, and then this:

<<<<First, for most dial-up connections, knowing your IP address isn't much benefit. It changes with each connection. But, if you want to know what it is, you can click the Startbutton, click Run, type in winipcfg. You should end up with a window named IP Configuration. There will be a selection box at the top. If you are connected to your ISP, one of the selections will have an IP address other than 0.0.0.0. That's your IP address. It'll probably be different the next time you dial-in, though. >>>>>>>

If the IP changes each time it's dialed, then how does it help track down the loonies?

I just bought a book called "Idiot's PC's", I'm hoping that it is going to help my computer-deficient brain to grasp all of this. So that I don't have to look like such a goofball.

Though I :confused: certainly appreciate your admiration, Notthemama so that I can take the brunt of everyone's certain opinion that I'm the only learning impaired present and accounted for here at the SDMB.
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Judy

P.S. And while YOU were flummoxed on 'jerkoff', I had a fellow student that actually coaxed me into asking my sixth grade MALE teacher, what 'horNmones' were. I couldn't even find it in the dictionary thanks to Stephanie's pronounciation.

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"Please Disregard the Following."

[Lord Jim]

Anti Pro said:

If the IP changes each time it's dialed, then how does it help track down the loonies?
First, I didn't say it did. This is Ed's idea.
Second, some IP addresses don't change that much. I'm on a DSL line and even though it is a Dynamic IP address, it only changes every couple of months. People using cable modems may use fixed IP addresses, so they would not change. People posting from work may have a fixed IP address. Of course, it may be the corporation's firewall's IP address.
Third, dial-up customer's IP addresses will vary within a given range.

Therefore, if a troublemaker is banned and the IP address range is known, a second troublemaker, suspected of being the same as the first, has IP addresses varying in the same range, it would give some added proof that they were one and the same.

Also, if a troublemaker and it's sock puppet are posting without reconnecting in between, they will be using the same IP address. This isn't conclusive since 2 people behind the same firewall would also be posting with the same IP address, but it would add evidence that they were the same person.

I would say that it gives the administration another tool to try to eliminate troublemakers, but the IP address by itself shouldn't be used to ban someone.

Hope that's a little clearer.

Jim

[Anti Pro]

Yes, you must have quite a gift to be able to reach the terminally undeft in computers!

And, my apologies for making it sound as though I meant you said it would stop the loonies. It was a general question to do with the posting of the IP numbers, and the reason for doing so.

Thanks for helping me, :)
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Judy

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"Please Disregard the Following."

[tshirts]

"Nothemama" spelled backwords is "am a meth ton". This explains a lot about his postings, I thinkso. :D

[Lord Jim]

Anti Pro,
I was just joking about the stopping the loonies thing.

And don't feel inept because you don't know what goes on behind the scenes of the internet. There is much more to it than this and normal people have know need to understand it. Subjects like this make it sound like there is a lot of important stuff going on the you should know, but really, it isn't very important.

A nice source of information is at How Stuff Works (http://www.howstuffworks.com/category-internet.htm). It's not too technical.

Jim

[WallyM7]

This is an outrage!

I have eleventeen sock puppets on the go at this moment and I treasure every one of them, and you want to hunt them down?

Sheesh, talk about over reactions. Only a couple of them are true trolls. The rest are mere parrots.

Your name, Mr.Zotti, will figure very prominately in my report to the illuminati, of which I am an affiliate member.

Assasin!

[Anti Pro]

Thanks for the link, Jim, that was not only helpful, but as you mentioned, it was in MY kind of language! :D

Wally, no one is after your sock puppets or trollish parrots, just everyone else's!! So, you can save your illuminati call for the really big stuff!

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"Please Disregard the Following."

[Kupek]

I'm on a static IP here at school, but back home on my dial up, I noticed that the ranges didn't change much.

Basically, your ISP only has a certain number of IP addresses to give you when you log on, so you'll notice a pattern when you start paying attention to your own.

And only one computer at a time can have a certain IP address, in response to something way up there which spoke of a bunch of people having the same address.

You may also be interested to know that for most message boards I've been too, they display a user's IP address right under their name. A lot of boards aren't sophisticated enough to have user names and passwords, so IP addys are the best way to combat imping (pretending to be someone else on the board). Just compare the suspect post to a bona-fide post from the person the suspect post is supposed to be, and if the addys are extremely different, you they're not who they claim to be.

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Kupek's Den (http://www.geocities.com/~tortolia/kupek)

[Cartooniverse]

Back to the IP for a moment. Considering the REAL reason you want to track the IP's, I cannot imagine anyone objecting. I'm AOL, and so it's slippery anyway. But, hell- track it all you want. Now and then a truly heinous prick gets ahold of too much info.....

Cartooniverse

[Dangerosa]

My hubby and I will have the same IP address, even posting at the same time. Two pcs - but we are behind a router doing NAT.

I'm just throwing this in to confuse everyone who can be confused further.

NAT is Network Address Translation. We have one IP address assigned by our ISP - but its assigned to our router and all the pcs in the house use it. The router keeps track of which data goes where. This is one of the reasons IP logging isn't very accurate. If your 2,000 person company does NAT, you all look like you have the same IP address to the outside world.

So Ed - my hubby is not my sock puppet (well, at least not the way you mean.)

[TubaDiva]

What we're trying to track down here are people that have more than one screen name --and cause trouble in both of them.

If you're a good netizen and a great member of the Teeming Millions (which nearly all of our folks here are), it's not a problem.

your humble TubaDiva
Administrator
The Straight Dope

[Silo]

I think the Admins and Mods are hacking us members out! Just a hunch ;)

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