What makes a man?

[Alexei]

I hope this is the right forum for this, not sure if it's more of a IMHO/Great Debate.

What makes a man? How many roads must a man walk down?

Men, what do you feel makes you a man?

Women, what do you think makes a man?

It seems to me there are the obvious physical features, but what else? Is Arnold Schwarzenegger a real man? What about Bill Gates? What makes a man a man?!

[Bippy the Beardless]

Since there is clearly no Factual answer to this, I hope a mod will move the OP to a correct forum.

I think what makes a human a member of the masculin gender is simply that humans self identification with the masculin gender.

So in terms of gender you are male if you feel you are male.

But does that make you a 'real man'TM?
Here we get into the cultural deffinitions of masculinity and femininity, in these cases we see a cultural expectation of what is male and what is female. But we soon find no one fits these expectations perfectly. So there are no 'real men'TM only an ill defined culturaly dependent measure of manliness.

[Alice The Goon]

First, a disclaimer. The following is strictly MY opinion, I do not in any way speak for all women, your results may vary.

A MAN will work on the car on the side of the highway, in the cold rain, in the dark of night, and will not complain about it.

A MAN is aware of his size, strength, and power, but does not need to use them to intimidate people.

A MAN knows that it's easier in the long run to do the right thing than to try to cut corners or get by with being less than totally honest.

A MAN does right by his children and is involved in their lives, whether they were planned or not, whether he is involved with their mother or not.

A MAN understands and respects the differences between men and women.

A MAN knows the difference between air-brushed models' bodies and real-women's bodies, and appreciates the real thing- cellulite, bellies, and all.

A MAN accepts responsibility for his own life, feelings, successes, and failures.

[Alice The Goon]

First, a disclaimer. The following is strictly MY opinion, I do not in any way speak for all women, your results may vary.

A MAN will work on the car on the side of the highway, in the cold rain, in the dark of night, and will not complain about it.

A MAN is aware of his size, strength, and power, but does not need to use them to intimidate people.

A MAN knows that it's easier in the long run to do the right thing than to try to cut corners or get by with being less than totally honest.

A MAN does right by his children and is involved in their lives, whether they were planned or not, whether he is involved with their mother or not.

A MAN understands and respects the differences between men and women.

A MAN knows the difference between air-brushed models' bodies and real-women's bodies, and appreciates the real thing- cellulite, bellies, and all.

A MAN accepts responsibility for his own life, feelings, successes, and failures.

P.S. I'm a woman. And I love men. Love how different they are than me, love how they interact with other men, how they walk, how the little muscle in their jawline flexes when they're thinking real hard. Love everything about them.

[DrFidelius]

I thought it had something to do with an X chromosome.

[Otto]

A MAN knows the difference between air-brushed models' bodies and real-women's bodies, and appreciates the real thing- cellulite, bellies, and all. Um...

I thought it had something to do with an X chromosome. "Y" would you think that?

[DrFidelius]

...or lack thereof.

[xash]

Alexei, General Questions is for questions with factual answers. There is no factual answer to your question.

Since you're seeking opinions, this belongs in IMHO. I'll move it for you.

-xash
General Questions Moderator

[shijinn]

a man will sire children and protect them.

a woman will birth children and care for them.

[Otto]

What the fuck is with the definitions of manhood that exclude gay men?

[Mockingbird]

What the fuck is with the definitions of manhood that exclude gay men?

Because we live in a rigid society that doesn't embrace change, fears the unknown, and hates what they fear.

Some people can only see from their point of view and cannot put themselves into the shoes of another.

Being a man, being a woman. Worthless concepts currently based on gender stereotyping, rabid conformity, and fear of being/appearing different.

There are some differences based on testosterone and estrogen. There are differences in physical strength and speed. Other than that, it's all societal enculturation and programming.

[j_kat_251]

What the fuck is with the definitions of manhood that exclude gay men?

Because nobody likes faggots? I don't know, you've got me there pal. You're a whiny bitch, and therefore fall closer to the woman side of the Mysterious Sexuality Continuum of Unknown Consequence anyway. So relax.

[Starguard]

What makes a man? Thats easy.. a good woman :cool:


Quote from the old Jackie Gleason Show


Ralph Crandon - Men don't need women..we're strongly superior. We are the ones responsible for making the world what it is today

His wife Alice - Well it sure feels good to hear one of you admit it :D

Ralph - You're really asking for it alice..Heres an example of how strong real men are..There'd be no America if it wasn't for Christopher Columbus

Alice - There'd be no Christopher Columbus if it wasn't for his mother.

Ralph - Dooh, One of these days alice...Bang... Zoom :D

[Sisyphus' Stone]

Trick question?

[Omnipresent]

Uh, a penis and balls?

Wasn't very good at biology but, seems to be a no brainer to me.

What makes a "good" man? Another question.

[Johnny Bravo]

"What makes a man, is it the woman in his arms?
Just 'cause she has big titties?
Or is it the way he fights every day?
No, it's probably the titties."

-From the theme to Orgasmo.

[Shakes]

What the fuck is with the definitions of manhood that exclude gay men?

Uh, sorry if you're gay, you're not NOT a real man.

I don't have anything against gays personally. I do know however that part of what makes a man is his ATRACTION towards the female gender.


To me what makes a man a man (among other things) is his willingness to take the brunt of all lifes hardships for his children and/or wife/gf.

By that I mean if your destitude and have only enough food to feed one person; a real man would feed his w/gf or children BEFORE he fed himself.

stuff like that..

[FairyChatMom]

I'd always heard that clothes make the man...

[ageless6]

Well,folks,it seems as though two bigots have pushed themselves from under their rocks,and begun openly spewing ignorance.

And no,I'm not gay.

I suspect that what makes a man a man differs at least slightly with all 6.something billion of us.
But to aver that gay men aren't men...well,you should go to a gay bar some night and see how that little theory floats.

[Mearl Dox]

I guess someone having the feeling that the majority of their inner traits are masculine rather than feminine is enough for that person to be a man to me.

I wouldn't say you'd have to have the equipment (if a guy gets in a tragic accident where certain bits are damaged, he ceases to be a man?) or the even be born with the right chromosomes--but I guess that's getting into territory even scarier than *gasp* gay men.

[Hostile Dialect]

To the bigots: I hope all your sons are gay and never talk to you after age 18 because you disapprove of their wonderful boyfriends. I hope you lose everything and your gay sons decide not to help you because you disowned them.

And no, I'm not gay. But I personally don't think that matters.

[Hostile Dialect]

As regards the OP: What makes a man is identifying with masculinity.

[JoeSki]

What the fuck is with the definitions of manhood that exclude gay men?

Depends on who's defining "man". I suppose this has to do with the way the public and media stereotype homosexual men as often acting like women (i,e calling each other "girlfriend" and "sister" and whatnot). I'm well aware that most homosexuals don't act like this, but for people who don't and don't know anyone who is gay, I'm pretty sure they just listen to whatever the tv tells them. Anyways, my point is when someone sees someone on the tv who bassicaly acts like a woman stuck in a mans body it's hard to think of them as a "man" in the (there's a word I'm searching for here that slips my mind at the moment, so fill in the blank) sense.

[j_kat_251]

Gay kid, straight kid, whatever. If I had two lesbian daughters and five gay sons I wouldn't care as long as they didn't run around all day bitching about some imagined mistreatment, looking to be persecuted. Whining about how other people define them. Can't you all marry in the eyes of the law now? What's the problem here? Boo hoo. Some person said "real men like real boobies not playboy ones" and predictably some crybaby had to start flailing around on the carpet because anytime you use "opposite sex" instead of "preferred gender" people's rights are being anally violated. Talk about pissy thoroughness. I mean, they're not going to start bombing San Franscisco just because one person on one message board said "guys should like real girls' tits" instead of "guys should like real mens' dicks and girls' tits". So calm down Martyr McFab.

[Shakes]

To the bigots: I hope all your sons are gay and never talk to you after age 18 because you disapprove of their wonderful boyfriends. I hope you lose everything and your gay sons decide not to help you because you disowned them.

And no, I'm not gay. But I personally don't think that matters.


Jeez!

Listen, I'm not saying gay people are inferior.

I'm SAYING that if your gay you can't really call yourself a real man in the sense that I think the OP is talking about.

Being offended by this would be as ridiculous as a man with no legs being offended if someone said "You could never be a professional football player."

Does the term "The emperor has no clothes!" ring a bell?

And if my son turns out gay, I'll love him the same as I always have.

[Czarcasm]

Because nobody likes faggots? I don't know, you've got me there pal. You're a whiny bitch, and therefore fall closer to the woman side of the Mysterious Sexuality Continuum of Unknown Consequence anyway. So relax.
This is your first, last and only warning-do not post in this manner outside of the BBQ Pit again, and if I were you, considering your previous posts, I'd even be careful in the BBQ Pit.

[Hostile Dialect]

Jeez!

Listen, I'm not saying gay people are inferior.

I'm SAYING that if your gay you can't really call yourself a real man in the sense that I think the OP is talking about.

Being offended by this would be as ridiculous as a man with no legs being offended if someone said "You could never be a professional football player."

Does the term "The emperor has no clothes!" ring a bell?

And if my son turns out gay, I'll love him the same as I always have.

My post wasn't directed towards you. Sorry I was less clear than I should have been (I was fairly intoxicated at the time, FWIW).

[Hostile Dialect]

And because I didn't quite mention it in my last post: No hard feelings SHAKES. My first post in this thread, again, was not at all directed towards you, and I have no doubt from the way you conduct yourself on this board that you are a fine, upstanding person in all respects.

[ageless6]

The point is that we on this site are supposed to know better. If we don't,we should politely ask,rather than blather hateful cliches about things we've obviously never really thought about.
I tend to think of bigots as less than manly because my definition of manly includes contemplating the fact that I could be wrong about my prejudices. We all have some,you know. The trick is to be willing to ask about them. Fortunately we're at just the right site for that. If you think it's risky,e-mail a mod and find out how to go about it.

We need more answers from gay men here.I'm angry at two of the posters here,but I'm just not as legitimate as a gay guy would be on this subject.

[KidCharlemagne]

To the bigots: I hope all your sons are gay ...

Isn't there a board rule about wishing gay sons on someone? :)

[ccwaterback]

When you no longer feel compelled to call your mother when you need to make a difficult decision.

[Bambi Hassenpfeffer]

The point is that we on this site are supposed to know better. If we don't,we should politely ask,rather than blather hateful cliches about things we've obviously never really thought about.
I tend to think of bigots as less than manly because my definition of manly includes contemplating the fact that I could be wrong about my prejudices. We all have some,you know. The trick is to be willing to ask about them. Fortunately we're at just the right site for that. If you think it's risky,e-mail a mod and find out how to go about it.

We need more answers from gay men here.I'm angry at two of the posters here,but I'm just not as legitimate as a gay guy would be on this subject.
Well, as a GWM, I didn't say anything to Mr "nobody likes faggots" because I'm used to this sort of statement. It kinda falls into the undercurrent of homophobia that pervades this culture. I'm used to hearing that gays can't be real men, usually from people who are unaware that I am a gay man because I "pass" as straight -- I'm fat, hairy, and fairly muscular, so I don't fit the effeminate twiggy stereotype. Sometimes, I argue the point and tell them I don't appreciate being told I'm not really a man; usually, due to being outnumbered or in an inappropriate situation for an argument, I let it pass. In this case, the stupidity of his statement stands on its own.

[Chastain86]

What makes a male? A "Y" chromosome.

But to me, what makes a man?

The conviction to do the right thing, to lead by example, and to live your life as a good guy, because there's way too many bad.

If you don't live your life this way, you might be male, but you're no kind of man.

[fighting ignorant]

I always thought the saying went:The clothes make the manAm I missing something?

[Otto]

I don't have anything against gays personally. I do know however that part of what makes a man is his ATRACTION towards the female gender. So that makes gay men, what exactly? Eunuchs? Genderless?

[iwakura43]

Lebowski:
What makes a man, Mr. Lebowski?

Dude:
I don't know, sir.

Lebowski:
Is it being prepared to do the right thing, whatever the cost? Isn't that what makes a man?

Dude:
Sure, that and a pair of testicles.

[VarlosZ]

What makes a man?
Reaching the point at which you're not so concerned with what makes a man.

[Bippy the Beardless]

I always thought the saying went: The clothes make the manAm I missing something?

You got something against nudists, bud?

;)

[Mockingbird]

You got something against nudists, bud?

;)

Not. At. All.

:D

[Mockingbird]

Isn't there a board rule about wishing gay sons on someone? :)

Yes: Don't curse gay children with parents that have cranial rectal inversion syndrome.

[Mockingbird]

Jeez!

Listen, I'm not saying gay people are inferior.

I'm SAYING that if your gay you can't really call yourself a real man in the sense that I think the OP is talking about.

Being offended by this would be as ridiculous as a man with no legs being offended if someone said "You could never be a professional football player."

Does the term "The emperor has no clothes!" ring a bell?

And if my son turns out gay, I'll love him the same as I always have.

Jeez is right.

There is no standard for what a 'real man' is, thus the very question is flawed. The concept of 'real man' can only be boiled down to: has an XY chromosome pair.

XY Chromosomes=Real Man.

Sexual expression is irrelevant. To claim that straight men are 'real men' and gay men are not is ludicrous.

Your comparison between gay men and a person missing limbs is a strawman.

Gay men are not missing body parts or physical functioning. Just because gay men don't sleep with women does not mean they are lesser than their straight bretheren.

Right now, the Emperor is slightly devoid of clue and needs to be a bit more enlightened if he's ever to deal with the theoretical reality of a gay son well.

[Mockingbird]

Uh, sorry if you're gay, you're not NOT a real man.

I don't have anything against gays personally. I do know however that part of what makes a man is his ATRACTION towards the female gender.


To me what makes a man a man (among other things) is his willingness to take the brunt of all lifes hardships for his children and/or wife/gf.

By that I mean if your destitude and have only enough food to feed one person; a real man would feed his w/gf or children BEFORE he fed himself.

stuff like that..

Wow.

I have no idea what ATRACTION is. If you meant attraction and that defines you as a man, then you not only slur gay men, but the celibate, the asexual, and members of the clergy.

What you state as 'being a real man' are social constructs that come out of bad country western songs.

Please hit your buzzer before you answer, you almost won a toaster.

[Mockingbird]

Uh, a penis and balls?

Wasn't very good at biology but, seems to be a no brainer to me.

What makes a "good" man? Another question.

How to make a good man:

Preheat oven to 400 degrees.

Take 10 large onions, dice them. Combine with two ground bulbs of garlic and butter, add two dashes of cayenne, and two teaspoons of teriyaki sauce, twelve pounds of bread crumbs, eight cups of water.

Stuff the cleaned inner cavity with the onion stuffing after the inside is thoroughly coated with butter. Coat the entire outside with butter, put in a huge roasting pan, and pour 20 cups of water around the roast.

Bake for 25 minutes for each poun. Baste ever 15 minutes for a moist yet crispy skin.

Oh... silly me. That's from my baked camel recipe.

Still, not a bad idea. I think they call it 'long pig'.









:D

[TellMeI'mNotCrazy]

How to make a good man:

Preheat oven to 400 degrees.

Take 10 large onions, dice them. Combine with two ground bulbs of garlic and butter, add two dashes of cayenne, and two teaspoons of teriyaki sauce, twelve pounds of bread crumbs, eight cups of water.

Stuff the cleaned inner cavity with the onion stuffing after the inside is thoroughly coated with butter. Coat the entire outside with butter, put in a huge roasting pan, and pour 20 cups of water around the roast.

Bake for 25 minutes for each poun. Baste ever 15 minutes for a moist yet crispy skin.

Oh... silly me. That's from my baked camel recipe.

Still, not a bad idea. I think they call it 'long pig'.

:D

What, no snips and snails and... puppy dog tails? OK so that's what little boys are made of, but inside every great man is a really cute little boy. IMHO, anyway.

[UncleBill]

... but inside every great man is a really cute little boy. IMHO, anyway.Kinda like a TurDucKen?

[don't mind me]

VarlosZ nailed it.

[Eve]

. . . inside every great man is a really cute little boy.

. . . So, Michael Jackson is a great man?

[rjung]

Feeling slightly sappy and sentimental, I'm going to try to distill some good ol' fashioned Japanese bushido-esque philosophy with the following:

If a man does not have his Honor, then he is not a Man.

[TellMeI'mNotCrazy]

. . . So, Michael Jackson is a great man?


No, no, no, not "Every great man is inside a really cute little boy." Yeesh!



...Giggling at the TurDuckEn.

[Tristan]

Wow.

I have no idea what ATRACTION is. If you meant attraction and that defines you as a man, then you not only slur gay men, but the celibate, the asexual, and members of the clergy.

What you state as 'being a real man' are social constructs that come out of bad country western songs.

Please hit your buzzer before you answer, you almost won a toaster.

Sorry Mockingbird, but I've got to give him this one. And I hate Country Western.

Note, however, that it's not necessarily "Wife and Children", it could very well be "Mate and Adopted child" or any other thing that triggers the "provider/defender" reflex.

A "Real Man" does what needs to be done, despite fear.
A "Real Man" does his best to provide for his loved ones... doesn't matter if the wife makes more money, doesn't matter if they live in a cave.... as long as you are trying, that's the point.
A "Real Man" will die to defend his own.

It's a hard standard, and not one that is particularly popular with those that are overly concerned with "Socially Acceptable" terms and norms. But if a man, no matter his build or attitude, made it a point to eat the last of the food in the house without seeing to it his loved ones were able to eat, he's not a man.

It's actually kind of hard to put in terms that are able to be put down on paper....

[Mockingbird]

Sorry Mockingbird, but I've got to give him this one. And I hate Country Western.

Note, however, that it's not necessarily "Wife and Children", it could very well be "Mate and Adopted child" or any other thing that triggers the "provider/defender" reflex.

A "Real Man" does what needs to be done, despite fear.
A "Real Man" does his best to provide for his loved ones... doesn't matter if the wife makes more money, doesn't matter if they live in a cave.... as long as you are trying, that's the point.
A "Real Man" will die to defend his own.

It's a hard standard, and not one that is particularly popular with those that are overly concerned with "Socially Acceptable" terms and norms. But if a man, no matter his build or attitude, made it a point to eat the last of the food in the house without seeing to it his loved ones were able to eat, he's not a man.

It's actually kind of hard to put in terms that are able to be put down on paper....

That's not true. That is a societal creation that some believe only belongs to 'real men'.

Gay men as well as women, straight and gay also:

Protect their loved ones.
Will fight and die to protect their people in war.
Will starve so their kids can eat.

That doesn't define them as real women anymore than it defines real men.

What it does define is a person who thinks of others and puts the needs of the group above their own. It is maturity.

It has nothing to do with gender or sexual preference.

Do you have any other concepts to show that hold no basis in fact as being 'a real man'?

[Mockingbird]

. . . So, Michael Jackson is a great man?

No, that is a skanky man inside...

Well, you know how to finish it. To complete the joke nausates me.

[Shakes]

I'm not going to debate something so subjective.

I will however stand by my assertation that if you're gay; there is SOMETHING going on with you that isn't quite normal. Now what that something is, wheather it be brain chemistry or if its a bad childhood I don't know. I don't care and I don't think it really matters. The only thing that really matters is if we treat said gay people with the same dignity and respect as we do everone else. It was my opinion that this SOMETHING would prevent a gay man from being a "real man" in the sense that I thought the OP was talking about. (you know, Hooters calander hanging in the garage. Stereotypical things like that)

We could sit here and list all sorts of good qualities as to "what makes a man" and I'd be willing to bet that you could use the same said qualities to define what makes a woman.

So maybe the OP should have read "What makes a good person."

If I offended anyone of my fellow gay dopers I apologize.

[MinniePurl]

What makes a man is identifying as a man. This is usually, but not necessarily always, associated with having a Y chromosome and testicles. I think that perhaps the intent of the OP (sort of) was "What makes a man a good person?" What makes someone a good person isn't linked to gender or sexual orientation. At least IMO.

[Tristan]

That's not true. That is a societal creation that some believe only belongs to 'real men'.

Gay men as well as women, straight and gay also:

Protect their loved ones.
Will fight and die to protect their people in war.
Will starve so their kids can eat.

That doesn't define them as real women anymore than it defines real men.

What it does define is a person who thinks of others and puts the needs of the group above their own. It is maturity.

It has nothing to do with gender or sexual preference.

Do you have any other concepts to show that hold no basis in fact as being 'a real man'?


Please note, and try to avoid smacking yourself in the face with your knee due to it's jerking, that I never said "Only Straight Men do this".

A generation of single mothers has learned it.
Thousands of widows all over the world have learned it.
Gay men, Gay women.... all have learned to do these things.

If I had to label it, I would label it more "How to be a noble human being", but that's not what the title asked. I was going with "Real Man", despite the fact that the PC Nazi's would be clamorring for heads in short order.

[Mockingbird]

Please note, and try to avoid smacking yourself in the face with your knee due to it's jerking, that I never said "Only Straight Men do this".

A generation of single mothers has learned it.
Thousands of widows all over the world have learned it.
Gay men, Gay women.... all have learned to do these things.

If I had to label it, I would label it more "How to be a noble human being", but that's not what the title asked. I was going with "Real Man", despite the fact that the PC Nazi's would be clamorring for heads in short order.

You stayed with the 'real man' bs.

Kneejerk was not where I went, nor was I being PC.

Pardonnez moi for finding some of the neanderthal like words on what comprises a 'man' offensive. It isn't as if I was the only one offended... just the most vocal in responding.

I went with a response to your words and no further, which is far from kneejerk.

Give Isolde my enduring affections.

;) :D

[AHunter3]

I 'spose my head is in the same place as the ones who define "being a man" in traditional (including sexist / heterosexist) ways, just approaching from the other flight pattern.

I'm male, I'm adult, and I'm even attracted to female people, but whatever this "being a man" thing is, I'm not about it, and it is not about me. It's been loudly (if not always coherently) defined by people who often insisted on the goodness of traits I don't much value and the dismissable triviality or outright badness of traits I do. Aside from which, of course, they were often openly asserting that I'm not one.

Fine with me. Yeah, sure, I could content against them for the right to define the word differently, but what the heck, most of Them, the ones doing that defining-thing, have been male, it's always been like that, and so very few of my strongest "this is who I am" senses of identity are all wound up in being male and what it means and what it's supposed to mean and so forth. Being male is a fact, sometimes convenient, often inconvenient, and quite often very misleading as an indicator of who I am.

[AskNott]

My daddy told me,
Lyin' on his bed of death,
"Son," he said, "a woman's goin' to make it,
Don't fool yourself.
She's got somethin' that makes a man,
Lay that money right in her hand.
The very thing that makes her rich,
will make you poor."

[AskNott]

Sorry, I didn't attribute the quote. S. Bailey wrote the song The Very Thing That Makes You Rich, that Ry Cooder recorded on Bop 'Til You Drop. Mr. Bailey, a cab driver, sang the song for Cooder, and at the time of the release, Cooder had not found Bailey to pay royalties. I don't know how it turned out.

[shijinn]

did i wander into the pit?.. :confused:

What the fuck is with the definitions of manhood that exclude gay men? where did that come from? i was stating a common milestone definition of a man - that of a father; likewise for women. i'm not sure why that is offensive? (yet it surely is, given the reaction.. ) as i'm not familiar/involved with gay topics i did not have them in mind in my previous post. it is just a simple (if animal) statement, that everyone should have offspring to have a fuller life. (of sorts) are you implying that gay men object to the idea of siring children, whatever the methods?


regards Otto's, Mockingbird's, ageless6's and fetus's posts. ..

you are all flinging wild accusations and baseless insults at me. please save your knee jerk reactions for the anti-gays or whatever you call them.

i'm really trying to keep my cool here, based on the thought that there must be a reason for the vitriol, but mostly because i'm just too shocked by the responses to give a proper reply. i see insults, condescension and hypocrisy hurled at me, my character attacked, my children's orientation 'wished' upon, my viewpoints hijacked and statements i did not make stuffed down my throat. and the response? some jokes and a moderator that saw j_kat_251's name calling as the only flaming worth paying attention to.

all i said was "a man will sire children and protect them. a woman will birth children and care for them." i genuinely do not see how that is hateful. what with the push for same sex marriage and all i would think that gay men valued the idea of having family, of having children.


note to self: does this qualify as a pile-on? no one has even bothered to quote my name as yet. offended, offended i am!
note to lesbians: apparently none of you have weighed in on this yet. is my original post somehow offensive to men only?


__________________
Mr :confused:

[pool]

What makes a man is it the woman in his arms...just cause she's got big titties...or is it the way, he fights everyday?...No it's probably the titties!

[ageless6]

shijinn:

I wasn't speaking of you in my posts,so please take me off your list. Perhaps Otto snapped at you a little too fiercely,but he's been through this a lot,and probably just exploded.I doubt if it was meant specifically just for you,you just happened to be right next door,so to say. But I should let him speak for himself. I don't know if the others you speak of were primarily chastising you or not, but there were two others who were actually saying that gay men aren't truly men and that infuriated me,so I posted about it. I didn't need to name them;it was apparent to anyone following the thread.

Anyway,peace on ya,shijinn.

[Mockingbird]

did i wander into the pit?.. :confused:


Were this the pit, the language would often be coarser and have periodic pointed insults.

You shouldn't be confused and that you are makes me wonder if you think before you write/post.

You weren't attacked and none of us were kneejerk in our responses.

One of you took responsibility and realized that unintended offense was caused. You are whining that we are unjust.

:rolleyes:

[Iteki]

note to lesbians: apparently none of you have weighed in on this yet. is my original post somehow offensive to men only?


This lesbian couldn't really give a crap what makes a "real man", unless they are easy to make and can be sold for a decent profit on ebay. Someone already touched on my opinion in this question, and that is that what makes a good man is the same as what makes a good woman (or "real" if you must). While watching LOTR I was struck strongly by the masculinty of Aragorn and Boromir especially when fleeing with the hobbits from the Balrog, and when mourning the deaths of their friends. The protective instincts and a wide range of emotion was very admirable, but this is also what I part of what I consider makes a good woman too.

I am firmly in the "societal construct" corner. In fact I have a rant brewing about this for a good while, might have to hack it up.

[Czarcasm]

I am very sorry I didn't get back to this thread sooner. :(

Have you people completely forgotten which forum you are posting in?? This isn't the freakin' BBQ Pit, for ghod's sake. A real adult is capable of stating her or his opinion without being threatened by the opinions of others.

Thread closed.