A small rant about homeowners who don't give a crap about their property.

[Jadis]

I bought my house a little over 2 years ago. The people who lived there before me were a pair of alcoholics with rage problems who eventually defaulted on their mortgage and got booted out. Good for me, since I got the house dirt cheap when the bank wanted to unload it before winter set in and they had to pay to heat it again...but bad for me, too, since the previous owners neglected (and sometimes outright abused) the property.

I've patched holes in walls. I've replaced kitchen cupboard panels that were punched in. I'm still trying to figure out how to repair the dining room door that had the center panel kicked out. But that's not the worst of it.

No, the worst is the tree that the previous owners allowed to grow on the west side of the house. I don't think it was intentionally planted there, it appears to just be a random chance thing, where they said "Ooooh....a tree. How neat. Let's see how big it gets." The problem with this is that the tree was growing about 18" from the foundation. In addition to the fact that it would flail its branches against the antique leaded glass windows in the dining room during storms, the root structure spread and cracked the corner of the foundation.

I cut the tree down the spring after I moved in, but the stump remained, as did the foundation damage. This year, I decided to finally fix it up and put it behind me. So, I called some tree services for quotes on stump grinding, since I didn't relish the thought of digging the stump out by hand (stumps of this size typically have a tap root that extends down 6-8'). Final cost on stump grinding: $125. The guy said that if the stump was in the middle of the yard, it would have been less than half that...the fact that the subterranean portion of the stump was right up against the foundation drove the price up more than double. Bastards.

Now that the stump is gone, I can address the foundation damage. The entire corner is cracked off, which will require the mason to build a form around it and repour that section. The mason estimates that this will be another $300.

All that these lazy assholes had to do was cut the tree down when it was small and this could all have been avoided.

Ah, the joys of being a homeowner.

Hate.

[Kalashnikov]

How in the world did you not see a TREE when you looked at the property before buying it? Or did you buy it sight unseen (I can"t imagine doing that either).

[Jadis]

Oh, I saw the tree and knew about the damage before I bought the house. I'm just pissed off that the previous homeowners allowed it to happen in the first place. The expense of the repairs was totally avoidable if they'd lifted their noses out of the vodka bottle for 2 seconds and actually made the effort to cut the tree down before it got to the point that it did.

[belladonna]

I know what you're saying about basic maintenence being a good idea, BUT--they were the homeowners at the time. Meaning it was their property, and they could maintain it, neglect it, or pimp it out for crackerjacks at their whim. Likewise, you were perfectly within your rights to purchase or not purchase it, as is. You didn't get it dirt cheap for no reason; and it's not like they threw a giant tarp over the tree while you were touring the place.

I know where you're coming from because the house I live in now was falling down when I bought it. Holes in the roof, porch rotted and caved in, floors buckled, yard destroyed, electricity that hadn't been updated since it the Depression, rotted plaster, water-damaged walls, and on and on and on. Five years later, it's just finally getting to the point where I'm not embarrassed to have company. Did it suck that the owners let it get in such a state? Of course, but I knew the state it was in when I bought it. So if I want to blame someone for the work and $$ I've had to put into it then I need only to look in the mirror.

[truthbot]

Poor Jadis. I feel your pain. I used to buy fixer-uppers back in the 70's and 80's, and now own some rental properties. What's up with kicking in walls and doors? Why do they do it? It certainly does not add to the ambience of the home, unless crappe-chique is their decorating style.

I hear you about the tree problem. I used to date a man that owned a nursery and worked with him during the peak season. Clueless folks would want to take that "adorable" "little" treesie-poo home and plant it in front of say; their picture window. Right in the foundation planting! We would explain to them until we were blue-faced that the "widdle" conifer would ultimately attain 70' with a spread to match. Would they listen? NO!!! But hell, the customer's always right, neh?

I would love to share some home-horror stories of my own; but at the moment I'm too busy with stripping pink-flowered wallpaper off the walls of my newest home. All the walls were covered with pepto-pink cutsey-wutsey flowered paper. To match the Barbie-pink window blinds. Which happened to match the pink carpet (which has been removed and replaced with a more neutral wheat colored carpet. Thank Og!)

I have owned this house for six months and am just now getting to the horrible wallpaper. Why? you might ask. Because I had to spend last fall and this spring pruning and spraying the friggin' orchard that the previous owners neglected. Imagine, if you will; fruit trees planted 12 years ago and never pruned. Or sprayed. Ghastly!! I felt like a lumber-jack by the time I finished. On the upside though, my grandchildren had a grand time roasting marshmallows on the burn piles.

Good luck on the foundation. Once that's done you can do something more fun with your house. Keep thinking about that next project. It'll take your mind off the current one.

[Cat Whisperer]

Yup, right there with you, Jadis. We bought a fixer-upper for a reduced price too, and I know exactly what you're saying. We got the benefit of their neglect, but I still don't understand how or why people do what they do to a perfectly good house and yard. Some of the things we're dealing with - half of the screens missing - just plain gone; mature yard that has been completely untended for years; the obligatory holes in walls and doors; crayon scribbled in various and sundry places; and the one that really makes us go "hunh?" - lots of long, deep scratches in the basement wall under one of the windows.

We also have a tree that has to come down - a poplar that also looks like just a random volunteer that has grown so big that the roots are starting to threaten the foundation. truthbot, you would be so proud of us - we're planning our yard and trees for how they are going to grow, not how they are now. And getting expert help so we don't make a mistake like the people that Jadis bought the house from.

[Kalhoun]

How on Earth did you find out they were alcoholics? Did your real estate person drink with them or something?

[Jadis]

How on Earth did you find out they were alcoholics? Did your real estate person drink with them or something?

My neighbors were more than happy to fill me in on the antics of the previous inhabitants. My favorite story is the one about the time they got in a fight and the woman, who had a holiday decorating obsession, decided to cut down all of the Christmas lights that were strung on the porch railings and columns with hedgeclippers and then throw the Christmas tree, still fully decorated and trailing wires, out the front door onto the lawn. All while screeching invective at the top of her lungs.

All of the neighbors *love* me, btw. Frankly, by comparison, I could be an axe-murderer and as long as I was quiet and mowed my lawn regularly, they wouldn't care. :D

[BrotherCadfael]

So the stump removal [i]and[/b] foundation repairs come to $400 and you're complaining? It sounds to me that if four bills will fix it the foundation problem is pretty small...

[truthbot]

How on Earth did you find out they were alcoholics? Did your real estate person drink with them or something?

Kalhoun, as a landlord, I can testify to the fact that some properties scream out "Alkyholichs live here!!" without needing a neon sign to attest to that fact. Holes punched in walls/doors: check. General neglect/disrepair: check. Failure to make rent/mortgage payments: check.

While it may not be true in all cases, in general sober people don't kick in walls or doors. Or haul home non-working appliances/vehicles. Or let trees grow into the foundation which causes costly repairs. Sober folks are usually up on those sort of things, ya'know? Even if money is an issue, it doesn't cost anything to cut down a nuisance tree before it creates the damage that Jadis has had to deal with.

And featherlou, good on you! Spend the money for a good design and build on it as you go. A good landscape lasts a lifetime, and so do landscaping disasters. You're doing the right thing. I learned that from my best friend who happens to be a landscape designer.

[Jadis]

So the stump removal [i]and[/b] foundation repairs come to $400 and you're complaining? It sounds to me that if four bills will fix it the foundation problem is pretty small...

::shrug:: $425 is a fair amount of money to me. No, it's not bankrupting me, but it's about a month's mortgage payment, if you must know. I have a lot of other projects I'd have liked to spend that money on, and to know that I'm spending it to fix a problem that *could* have been avoided entirely is the particularly galling part.

[Hyperelastic]

I have had a very similar experience with my first house. I'm in California, so I had to pay a million dollars and my left testicle for a 50-year-old fixer-upper. I had to settle for a house with some interesting features.

1. Punched-in closet door

2. Front lawn consisting of 80% crabgrass, 15% clover and 5% grass

3. Main bathroom with cracked tile in the shower, so all the drywall surrounding the shower became wetwall. When I redid the shower, demolition was a snap. I tore down the shower walls with my bare hands. I don't even want to talk about the stuff I found growing in the wall framing.

4. Back and side lawns which had been paved over with concrete at least 8 inches thick. According to the neighbors, the previous owner had lazy sons who wouldn't mow the lawn. So he paved over the entire yard, or at least tried to. He got the back and sides done, but when he tried to pave the front the city wouldn't let him. He actually did get the margin strip between the sidewalk and street paved, but the city came and tore it out. The concrete had to be removed with a jackhammer and a very large truck. Cost $1000, and you try getting grass to grow on soil that has been under 8 inches of concrete for 20 years.

5. Added-on master suite that was laid out in such a way as to prevent access to one whole side of the yard.

6. Brick facing added to the front of the house which prevents the front screen door from opening the same direction as the front door. (Front door can only open one way due to the layout of the entry.) Result: screen door and front door are hinged on opposite sides. Not a lot of fun when you're coming in with groceries.

7. A gas fireplace that consists of a length of steel pipe with holes drilled into it, connected to the gas main.

8. Front door with a big hole where the deadbolt is supposed to go.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

7. A gas fireplace that consists of a length of steel pipe with holes drilled into it, connected to the gas main.

:eek: On the bright side, most gas fireplaces can only heat one room efficiently. I imagine that with this one, you could heat the entire neighborhood.

Burundi and I just bought our first house in November, and we're having the love-hate relationship with it. The love is because it's decently-sized and light inside and in a wonderful neighborhood (i.e., within walking distance of a grocery store and a pub) and has garden space and a big old kitchen.

The hate is mainly due to the humongous pile of honey locust (we think) branches in the back yard. Apparently pioneers used to use the spines that grow on honey locusts for nails. I'm not making that up; I read it last night on a website about the trees. And it's no surprise, either, considering that those motherfuckers are about four or five inches long and that (again I'm serious) some of the thorns have thorns growing on them.

After we signed the contract, but before we moved in, the neighbors pruned the tree and left a gigantic pile of these deadly flesh-seeking branches in the backyard for us to deal with. They said they'd get rid of them before we moved in, but they lied like lying dogs.

And that's not even mentioning the carport that they promised to fix before we moved in -- another stinking lie. If it falls over, which it might do, it could take one wall of the house with it. Tearing it down will cost us close to $1,000; repairing it could run several thousand bucks.

Ah, well. It's nice that at least a little bit of our monthly housing payment stays our property instead of going to a landlord. I just wish we'd had better representation when we bought the house, or bought it from people that weren't lying liars.

Daniel

[BrotherCadfael]

::shrug:: $425 is a fair amount of money to me. No, it's not bankrupting me, but it's about a month's mortgage payment, if you must know. I have a lot of other projects I'd have liked to spend that money on, and to know that I'm spending it to fix a problem that *could* have been avoided entirely is the particularly galling part.I've got better uses for $425, myself, but given what foundation repairs COULD cost, $425 worth of damage sounds like you're getting off easy. I had a friend who had to dump $20K into his foundation -- and he didn't have $20K just sitting around waiting to be spent, either...

[clairobscur]

Since the house you bought was "dirt cheap", according to you, I'm not sure why you're complaining about a 400 $ expense....

[Finagle]

Yes, I sympathize with the repair costs, but from the perspective of someone who had to buy a house in the over-priced Boston area, it sounds like you're getting off amazingly cheap. Five years into home ownership, and $425.00 is still a relatively cheap month for me as far as home repair goes. And I bought my house from people who took care of it -- it's just that it's 150 years old and hadn't been redone since 1970.

I dunno if you could even get a stump drilled around here for $125.00. I got stung for over $200.00 just to get a 2 x 3 section of asphalt repaired on the driveway. I'm not looking forward to getting an estimate on the painting this spring.

[Jadis]

Since the house you bought was "dirt cheap", according to you, I'm not sure why you're complaining about a 400 $ expense....

Because the fact that the house was "dirt cheap" was the only thing that allowed me to buy a house on my own in the first place? Because the $400 I had to spend was (IMO) a waste, since it was on something that could easily have been avoided entirely?

Sorry that I didn't make it clear that I don't shit hundred dollar bills. :rolleyes:

[rjung]

Gee, when I first read the title of this thread, I thought Jadis was gonna call me out for my weed-encrusted, I-have-no-green-thumb-and-am-hiring-a-gardener-soon lawn. *Whew*

If it's any sympathy, Jadis, last December I had to shell out over $3,000 because the previous owner of my home had a wooden back fence that was aged, rotted, and just about to fall over from propping up two trees in my yard... and which finally blew down after a strong December storm. Got rid of the trees myself, and now there's a nice solid cinderblock wall back there, but that's still $3K I won't see again.

[Jonathan Chance]

I'm just beginning my second trip down restoring a house. The first one was a 1868 farm house in the Blue Ridge and now I've move and got a 1909 Victorian in small town Ohio.

Right now I'm getting bids on rewiring, tearing down the old back porch and building a new one with HVAC and such, and refinishing the attic. It's a headache but I got the place for 80K so I'm not complaining.

Much.

[ShelliBean]

Sorry that I didn't make it clear that I don't shit hundred dollar bills. :rolleyes:

But I've been standing here with this baggie all day. Come on - how 'bout a $50?

[Gatopescado]

Oh boy do I know what you guys are talkin' bout!

Those filthy savage Injuns just let rainwater collect at the low spot of the property and eventually create an alkali flat! When the U.S. Gubbment "foreclosed" wink, wink on them, they didn't do any better! They just let the place get over-grown with sagebrush and tumbleweed! And they let them damn "Pony Express" punk's horses poop all over the place!

Imagine the nerve of some people! They buy a house and have the brass to actually live in it, wrecking it for the next guy!

:rolleyes:

______________________
"But I'll always regret that Rwandan thing." --Bill Clinton

[MeanJoe]

I married one. Not an alcoholic who punches holes in things but a homeowner who doesn't care about her property/yard. Lucky me. When we first met, she already owned the home we moved into and the yard was bad. Half the back yard was dead, completely dead. A quarter of the front lawn was bare dirt. It was all over-grown with tall grass and weeds. I'd asked her the general questions in that getting to know you kind of way, particularly if she had nice neighbors. She told me they all hated her. Guess why? :)

About a year or so after meeting her, I went with her to visit her parents in Russia. The scales fell off my eyes and I understood a little better her attitude towards lawn care. Simply put, for the most part people in Russia do not have lawns. Nature does what nature does, no one "manicures" their yard - why do that? Heck, most do not have lawns anyway as I mentioned. Lawn mower sales is not a booming industry. Haha!

Anyway, after a few years and getting engaged, I moved into the house she already owned and went to work right away. That first spring/summer was a lot of work just getting grass back and the endless battles with weeds, new grass seed, and assorted woodland animals that had taken to living in the tall grass.

The second year the grass looked great, the lawn was well taken care of and healthy again. I re-built the flower beds around the property and had quite a nice little color bouquet all summer long. Last year, the third year, I started adding larger landscape elements like a young tree and several arborvitaes. This year we have two arborvitae like trees that have been ignored for a good 15 years and are now over-grown above the front roof-line of the house and I'm getting them removed and the roots torn out. Fortunately, even though they were planted a mere feet from the corners of the house and have grown to over 15 feet tall, they have not damaged the foundation (yet!). Next year we re-do the brick patio and put in some landscaping brick walls to create additional new flower beds and add a cedar fence around the back. Yippee!

All my neighbors love me and I enjoy chatting with the retired homeowners who border my back yard as they give me tips on various lawn maintenance techniques, etc. I constantly get compliments on how good the place looks and back-handed complaints about "how it used to be". As a homeowner, even though it is my wife, I understand where they are coming from - it is their neighborhood too and their property values. I enjoy doing my part, keeping our home well kept.

Of course, to this day, Mrs. MeanJoe just shakes her head in bewilderment and wonders what the hell the big deal is over lawns. I've told her that if she was my neighbor before we met, I'd hate her too. :D

MeanJoe

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Oh boy do I know what you guys are talkin' bout!

Sure, but what the fuck are YOU talking about?
Daniel

[BiblioCat]

Frankly, by comparison, I could be an axe-murderer and as long as I was quiet and mowed my lawn regularly, they wouldn't care. :D

Jadis's Neighbors: "She was so quiet and kept to herself. Who knew she had all those bodies buried in the basement?"
;)

[GaWd]

So the stump removal [i]and[/b] foundation repairs come to $400 and you're complaining? It sounds to me that if four bills will fix it the foundation problem is pretty small...

This is my exact reaction. After having over $15K worth of work performed on my brother's house, just to pass escrow, $400 ain't shit. A couple holes and fucked up doors don't sound like much. We had to have both bathrooms and the kitchen completely remodeled...and they weren't even drunks!

Sam

[alice_in_wonderland]

Because the fact that the house was "dirt cheap" was the only thing that allowed me to buy a house on my own in the first place? Because the $400 I had to spend was (IMO) a waste, since it was on something that could easily have been avoided entirely?

So, I just want to be clear here - because the previous owners didn't take care of their property, you were able to buy it where you wouldn't have otherwise been able too, and now your pissed off that they didn't take care of their property.

This doesn't actually make any sense to me, whatsoever.

However, in the spirit of grousing for the sake of grousing - tough break. I hope your repairs get done quickly, and are the last of them required. :)

[Jadis]

So, I just want to be clear here - because the previous owners didn't take care of their property, you were able to buy it where you wouldn't have otherwise been able too, and now your pissed off that they didn't take care of their property.

No, actually the condition of the property had nothing to do with getting it at an amazing price. The amazing price had more to do with the bank not wanting to own the property through the winter and have to pay to keep the utilities on, and they'd already had one failed contract due to the buyers not getting financing. They were in a hurry and they unloaded it to me at my asking price. No, the house was in move-in condition, with the exception of the minor things I mentioned.

I don't see what's so difficult to understand about being frustrated that I had to waste money fixing something that could easily have been avoided to begin with. That's all. That's the essence of the rant. Sorry it doesn't meet your outrage standards.

And as for this:

Oh boy do I know what you guys are talkin' bout!

Those filthy savage Injuns just let rainwater collect at the low spot of the property and eventually create an alkali flat! When the U.S. Gubbment "foreclosed" wink, wink on them, they didn't do any better! They just let the place get over-grown with sagebrush and tumbleweed! And they let them damn "Pony Express" punk's horses poop all over the place!

Imagine the nerve of some people! They buy a house and have the brass to actually live in it, wrecking it for the next guy!


I have to agree with Left Hand of Dorkness here....ummmm, wtf? Are you on some sort of psychotropic substance?

[clairobscur]

Because the fact that the house was "dirt cheap" was the only thing that allowed me to buy a house on my own in the first place? Because the $400 I had to spend was (IMO) a waste, since it was on something that could easily have been avoided entirely?

Sorry that I didn't make it clear that I don't shit hundred dollar bills. :rolleyes:


It doesn't matter. It was "dirt cheap" precisely as a result of having been the property of negligent owners (or else they wouldn't have been evicted). Have they been more sensible, you'd never had the house at the first place. Also, you bought it as it was. You could probably have noticed that there were some issues. And should have added this to the cost when considering buying the house. Thinking "actually, this house is going to cost me XXXXXXX + 400 $, can I still afford it?". I suspect it wouldn't have changed your decision, or houses in the US are way cheaper than over here.


You can't have your cake and eat it. Get a "dirty cheap house" from people who were enough off-base to be evicted and expect them to have been reasonnable enough to take care of their property.

[clairobscur]

I
Of course, to this day, Mrs. MeanJoe just shakes her head in bewilderment and wonders what the hell the big deal is over lawns. I've told her that if she was my neighbor before we met, I'd hate her too. :D

MeanJoe



We're probably somewhere in between you and Russia, here, but I must say that reading several threads on this board about lawns and neighbors issues, my opinion is the same : "what is the fucking deal with lawns in the US?". In what way is it any of my neighbor's business if I don't want a lawn in *my* yard? Especially since I *dislike* lawns. I find them just lame.


It sometimes seems like having a lawn is mandatory by law, and you're going to be jailed if you don't mow it at the appropriate moment. It's even more weird since american people usually feel very concerned about property rights. That's *my* yard, and if I want to grow beans and pumpkins or wild grasses and flowers, rather that a lawn (that I deeply dislike, by the way) that's not any of your bussiness. If it hurts your sense of aesthetics, look elsewhere.


Sincirely, I would be infuriated if I was living in a neighborhood where people would feel they've some right to tell me what should grow in my yard, and especially if they wanted me to have a fucking *lawn* (Did I mention that I hate lawns? Really, honestly, I prefer wild grass. By far.).


(And i'm sure they would all awaken me in the early morning while mowing their damned lawns)

[belladonna]

It sometimes seems like having a lawn is mandatory by law, and you're going to be jailed if you don't mow it at the appropriate moment.
I doubt you'd be jailed, but there are laws about upkeeping your yard. Like I said, the house I live in was a dump when I moved in. The yard, honestly, was way, way down on my list of priorites and I put about zero effort into it the first 6-8 months. I eventually got a notice from the city that grass must be kept at such and such a length, and piles of brush must be cleared away, etc. etc. They gave me a week to get it cleaned up or else I'd be cited and assigned a court date. I figure one of the few neighbors on the street whose yard wasn't in worse shape than my own must have complained.
Considering that one schmuck down the street had (and five years later, still has) grimy, moldy, ancient white carpet covering his front yard, I was more than a little annoyed at being singled out. Such is life, I suppose.

[Jonathan Chance]

And that is exactly the sort of half-assed busybody nonsense that makes me want to explode when people talk about joining homeowners associations.

Lawns, in the first place, are just expensive, meaningless status symbols. They waste time and money. I had 2 acres and now I have practically nothing and I'm pretty damn proud of that fact.

The sort of person who would come over to share lawn tips with me if the sort of person I don't want on my land.

I do appreciate gardens, though. At least there you're accomplishign something. But a lawn? You're not appreciating nature...you're subduing it.

[Inoshiro]

Lawns, in the first place, are just expensive, meaningless status symbols. They waste time and money.

and water. Oceans and oceans of water. Here in central Florida we drain the aquifer to water our lawns and then whine about how all our houses are falling into sinkholes.

[Doomtrain]

Note to self: Apparently not being a renter requires becoming deeply passionate about grass and lawn care.

Will continue observing these strange people and report back.

[GingerOfTheNorth]

It doesn't matter. It was "dirt cheap" precisely as a result of having been the property of negligent owners (or else they wouldn't have been evicted). ...you can't have your cake and eat it. Get a "dirty cheap house" from people who were enough off-base to be evicted and expect them to have been reasonnable enough to take care of their property.

Read again. Jadis got the house because the bank wanted to unload it before the heating season.

As for the comment about Jadis being quiet and keeping to herself... hate to tell you this, but it's TRUE. And she's a bit homicidal as well. :D

Jadzie, why don't you shit $100 bills for me? I'll be your best friend!

[Kyla]

Not all Americans are lawn freaks. Growing up in California, where droughts are common and it doesn't rain in the summer (everything turns green in the winter, plenty of people don't have lawns because it's a waste of resources. My parents used to shake their heads at the manicured lawns and wonder what the hell was wrong with people that they would spend time and money on this.

In the eastern part of the country, or at least here in the Midwest, it rains a great deal in the summer, though, so you don't need to water the lawn and it's not as big a drain.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

My parents used to shake their heads at the manicured lawns and wonder what the hell was wrong with people that they would spend time and money on this.

We likely won't spend money on our lawn, but it is a little weird owning a house and realizing that you just sprinkled a lawn repair mix over bare patches of earth :). Granted, the lawn repair mix (from all signs consisting entirely of green-colored newspaper shreds) came with the house, but still.

I agree, though: gardening is the way to go with a yard. We've got some sixty square feet of double-dug wide beds this year, and will expand it every growing season. I loves my garden!

Daniel

[Eureka]

My brother and his wife bought a house that was not treated well by its previous owners. (Sis-in-law took one look at it and saw "potential" and a great location. Bro saw "a lot of work"). Had it been treated properly, it would be a nice house with a wonderful yard. It would also not have been in their price range. Still, I think Jadis is entitled to rant a little about the lack of care given by the previous owners. Even if the amount of money is trivial. My brother keeps finding new things that he can't believe the previous owners did or did not do.

[Cat Whisperer]

Here in Calgary, we are also trying to spread the word about not having a monoculture, water-sucking lawn on every front yard. We've taken about 75 square feet of grass out of our yard so far this year, with the rest to be taken out as we go. The grass will be replaced with plants that are chosen specifically for their hardiness for this area (no watering, no pampering, and very little maintenance required for them) and other types of ground cover (tree bark, pine cones, gravel, etc.).

[DogMom]

After having over $15K worth of work performed on my brother's house, just to pass escrow,
Oh, man. Don't even remind me of that. When I got laid off and had to move to get another job, we had to have over $2,000 work done on our house just to get it to pass inspections. That's because "the regulations changed." Oh, that much in less than five years, eh? Fuck you very much. (We did everything except the electrical work ourselves, or it would've been about 3 times that.)

Note to self: Apparently not being a renter requires becoming deeply passionate about grass and lawn care.
Not necessarily. DogDad was almost persuaded into becoming a Lawn Freak by our next-door neighbor at our old house, when I pointed out that all that'd mean is he'd spend half his time watering and fertilizing just so he could spend the other half mowing.
We mow ours. We have Tulips and Gladiolus, but only because they were there when we moved in. I'm a great believer in "plant it once, if it grows, great, if not, well then it wasn't supposed to. If you gotta replant it next year, don't do it at all."
However, Dueling Lawn Care Companies is evidently BIG BUSINESS around us. <shrug> I just don't get it.

[Doomtrain]

I just don't get it, I guess. I like living in a place where the Mexicans(1) wander in regularly and cut the grass. I saw a dude out raking today and was like, "Ew! Raking! I don't want to own a house cause we'd have to do that again.

1. Offenderati Note: I have not actually inquired as to their ethnic origin. They may be Cuban or Puerto Rican or Guatemalen. So if you're offended, just assume I said, "Hispanic Lawn Care Workers Who Speak Very Little English Judging By All The Spanish Yelling Back And Forth."

[clairobscur]

I doubt you'd be jailed, but there are laws about upkeeping your yard. Like I said, the house I live in was a dump when I moved in. The yard, honestly, was way, way down on my list of priorites and I put about zero effort into it the first 6-8 months. I eventually got a notice from the city that grass must be kept at such and such a length, and piles of brush must be cleared away, etc. etc. .


Just a question : were these particular regulations on the book for safety reasons (I'm thinking fires, because there are similar regulations about removing bushes or such things here in areas with a high incidence of fires, sometimes in subburban zones which happen to be close to forests in dry areas), which would certainly make sense, or for aesthetic reasons?

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Just a question : were these particular regulations on the book for safety reasons (I'm thinking fires, because there are similar regulations about removing bushes or such things here in areas with a high incidence of fires, sometimes in subburban zones which happen to be close to forests in dry areas), which would certainly make sense, or for aesthetic reasons?

I know in our area there are limited rules about your yard, and they seem pretty reasonable: essentially, if it's gonna be a fire or wildlife hazard, you can't do it.

Wildlife hazards are no joke in a part of the country that has copperheads and rattlesnakes, incidentally: tall grass and especially brushpiles can be great habitat for venomous snakes. And while venomous snakes are a wonderful part of the native ecosystem, they're not such a wonderful part of a neighborhood.

For me, despite the aforementioned lawn repair newspaper shreddings, I'm much more interested in growing flowers or especially vegetables. I've got no desire to be that guy that brags about what fertilizer he uses on his lawn.

Daniel

[belladonna]

Just a question...
I don't know for sure--I just know I made sure to get it "up to code" before I had to find out about the punishment side of it. :) But there aren't any rattlers around here, so it wasn't that. And brushfires on 10" high green weeds (because really, there wasn't any real grass just trashweeds) seems a bit implausible here in Ohio. I think it was just more of a "community standards aesthetic" but I'm not positive.

[rjung]

I admit I like the idea of having a nicely-kept yard. I fantasize about sitting on the back porch, enjoying a cool breeze while looking on my own private patch of green velvet, trimmed with an assortment of nice flowers. Is that too much to ask?

Of course, my back yard is currently a hodge-podge of weeds, crabgrass, and Primus-knows-what-else, so it's not quite there yet. I've apparently failed to make my "Gardening Ability" attribute roll...

[Guinastasia]

WTF IS crabgrass, anyways? WHY is it so bad?

Unkept lawns attrack snakes, as was mentioned. In some areas, poisonous snakes. And for those of us with sensitive skin, I tend to get rashes if I wade through long, unkept grass. (Don't ask me why, I have no idea).

You don't have to have a perfect lawn, but at least keep it nice and neat.

[jayjay]

WTF IS crabgrass, anyways? WHY is it so bad?

Crabgrass is the big sprawling clumps of flat grass, like a crab's legs, and it's bad because it's ugly and takes over your yard. And has roots like a million tiny little white worms that you have to SIFT out of the soil when you dig up crabgrass-infested lawn for garden beds or else the crabgrass will be BACK!

[jayjay]

Crabgrass (http://www.lsuagcenter.com/cotton/WEED%20CONTROL/WEEDPICS/crabgrass.jpg)

[StarvingButStrong]

When I was in my early teens, the couple who owned the house three down from us 'found religion' of some not-very-mainstream type. As a result of their new beliefs they turned their yard from just another of the mostly-grass lawns typical of the area into food-productive gardens.

It took several years, but eventually every square inch of their yard was turned into gardens.

They had espaliered (I fairly sure I've spelled that wrong) fruit trees all along the chain link fence on the north property line. The entire back yard was a GIANT vegetable garden, all the usual things plus stuff (like asparagus and corn and potatoes) that home gardeners rarely bother with. The south side yard was berry patches: blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, and more. They were out there many hours every day, tending all this, plus often they had whole gangs of other people in, helping to plant or especially to harvest the fruit trees.

All of this had been overlooked by the neighbors (since it was to a large degree out of sight) but then they turned the front yard into gardens, too: squash and pumpkins and zucchinis spreading every which way like a mutant green monster from space -- out across the sidewalk, in fact, and it would have gone further no doubt except the cars driving over the tendrils kept the street clear. There were also dozens of teepee shaped trellises with green beans and other stuff growing up them scattered around the front yard.

This got up the noses of some very yard-proud types, who complained to the police and town selectmen and everyone else they could think of. So the couple got an official looking letter from the town attorney, about community standards and violating the zoning laws (? I guess because it was residential and not 'farm' zoned) and so forth, instructing them to conform or face possible legal repercussions.

Two days later the couple erected a BIG sign on their front yard, right up at the sidewalk line. It read something like this:


-=-=-=-=-

Last year over XXXX pounds of fresh fruits and vegetables were raised in this yard. ALL of this food, which would have cost thousands of dollars to buy, was given to the [name of church, I forget it now]'s Relief Mission, where hundreds of hungry men, women and children are fed free meals every day.

Just how precious is your fucking grass anyway?

-=-=-=-

(I cheered -- hey, I was the anti-establishment type.)

The sign stayed up for a few weeks, then vanished, but so far as I know, nothing else was said about the lack of lawn, and the gardens were still flourishing when my parents sold that house and moved away. (Not due to the gardens, it was a job transfer.)

[Guinastasia]

Crabgrass (http://www.lsuagcenter.com/cotton/WEED%20CONTROL/WEEDPICS/crabgrass.jpg)

Thanks.

H'uh. That looks like most any other grass. Or at least, we probably have it in our yard-my dad doesn't really care about having a perfect lawn, so we have a lot of wild flowers (dandelions and such).

[jayjay]

Thanks.

H'uh. That looks like most any other grass. Or at least, we probably have it in our yard-my dad doesn't really care about having a perfect lawn, so we have a lot of wild flowers (dandelions and such).

Oh, I'm wildly indifferent to lawn. Ugly monoculture that takes more work than it's worth if I'm not running a football stadium. I just hate clearing it while digging gardens.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

-=-=-=-=-

Last year over XXXX pounds of fresh fruits and vegetables were raised in this yard. ALL of this food, which would have cost thousands of dollars to buy, was given to the [name of church, I forget it now]'s Relief Mission, where hundreds of hungry men, women and children are fed free meals every day.

Just how precious is your fucking grass anyway?

-=-=-=-


Awesome!
Daniel

[rjung]

I don't need a perfect lawn, just one that's not overgrown with knee-high weeds which grow an inch every half-hour.

[Cat Whisperer]

When I was in my early teens, the couple who owned the house three down from us 'found religion' of some not-very-mainstream type. As a result of their new beliefs they turned their yard from just another of the mostly-grass lawns typical of the area into food-productive gardens.

It took several years, but eventually every square inch of their yard was turned into gardens.
<snip>
I grew up in a small Saskatchewan farming town, where having a lawn in your back yard would just be weird. Back yards were for gardens. I remember moving into the city from this small town and thinking how strange it was to see yards that *didn't* have gardens in the back. I mean, how do you eat fresh peas and carrots and raspberries if you don't grow them? Everything's relative, I guess. (Oh, if someone wanted to garden the front yard too, I don't think all the retired farmers would have had a problem with it.)