What Evidence is there of Barry Bonds Using Performance Enhancing Drugs?

[Carnac the Magnificent!]

Over the last couple of years, there's been a lot of chatter about unidentified major league baseball players using performance-enhancing (PE) substances such as anabolic steroids, human growth hormone, creatine, and a host of designer PE drugs.

Several years ago, Mark McGuire freely admitted to using some type of PE drug to bulk up and, lately, controversy has raged over Barry Bonds, though he has denied these claims, I believe. I also recall reading somewhere that he too really bulked up a few years ago.

What evidence is there to date, circumstantial or otherwise, about Bonds' using these substances?

[DynoSaur]

So far as I can tell, the argument for Bonds having used performance-enhancing drugs follows these lines:

"Well, he isn't suffering from the normal age-related decline, and in fact he managed to get a whole lot better at an advanced age. People just don't have the best year of their career when they're 36/37 - ESPECIALLY when they were a Hall of Famer to begin with.

Plus, he looks a whole lot bigger/stronger and would you LOOK at the size of his HEAD, for the love of god? It's huge!

Also, his name came up in connection with the BALCO THG people.

Plus, I really really hate him and so it'd be cool if they found out he was cheating and so I'm going to say he's cheating without anything more than mere suspicion because, well, I hate him."

Now. I'm not saying he used, I'm not saying he didn't (although I'm willing to believe he didn't until there's actual...umm, whatsitcalled?...oh, EVIDENCE, to the contrary.)

Now, ignoring the final argumentum ad Rick Reilly for the moment, as far as I know, he hasn't actually gotten that much heavier since he was younger - certainly not any heavier than could be explained by age-related weight gain.

He had the one freakishly good year, completely out of line with anything he's done before or since, (one HR every 6 AB vs one homer every 8-9 AB), which might be enough to cause suspicion, coupled with his age, except for that return to more normal levels immediately afterward.

As for his name coming up with regards to BALCO, so did Randy Velarde's and Marvin Benard's, so I'm going to need some more proof than that that there was anything performance-enhancing going on.

Plus, it doesn't help that sportswriters don't like him, so he's not going to get anything approaching a free pass

[astro]

Per what DynoSaur said, the main thing that raises people's eyebrows is that his body appears to have gotten substantially more massive and powerful at an age when most athletes are usually on the downward slope. There are limits what weight training and physical conditioning can do, and to most people in that sub-sulture Bonds is an obvious steriod user.

[Casey1505]

Here's what most people are looking at:

Barry Bonds circa 1986 (http://buy.overstock.com/images/products/P909139.jpg) vs. Barry Bonds nowadays. (http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/images/090203/bonds.jpg)

Another look. Then, (http://www.air-o-graphix.com/images/illustrations/bonds.jpg) now. (http://www.onlineathens.com/images/071703/bonds.jpg).

Most guys pushing 40 get guts just above their belts. He seems to have gotten a gut covering his entire body. Getting in a weight room can only build so much muscle. Bonds, unlike McGwire, just seems to be smart enough to keep any "supplements" in a drawer, rather than on the top shelf of his locker.

[Casey1505]

Related to the OP, check out this set of before after pics of another player mixed up in the BALCO case:

Then. (http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/giambi.jpg)
More recent. (http://www.thediamondangle.com/archive/aug01/oak/jason.jpg)

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Uh, there is the matter of Bonds' personal trainer being raided by the Feds on a steroid bust. It's not all head diameter and bat speed.

The OP does say "abuse," though. I don't think he's abused anything- if he used any of that stuff, he used it the way it's supposed to be used.

[Philster]

It's a riot, because if you've ever seen parents who were oblivious to their kids' or kids' friends drug use, you have to really listen to people 'in the know' when it comes to steroid drug use. It's begs the question, "How could you not know?!" Like, DUH!

Take a parent who has no clue. Their kid is on something, and they as parents are clueless, yet the see them everyday. You feel like bitch slapping these people, and if the parents are ever called on the carpet by a teacher or the police or something, the parents will look stunned, and everybody else would again ask, "How could you not know!?. Are you that ignorant!?" "MY GOD!"

Now take pro players on 'roids or related drugs: To anyone who has any clue, we don't even wonder if the Sosa's or Bonds of the world are on something. Do they really think I am that stupid?!

I'm not running a court of law here, so I can draw my own conclusions. Bonds...Sosa...others, who the f--- do you think you're fooling?!

Wake up, people!

[Ike Witt]

Whenever I now see Bonds, I hear Rob Schnider voice in my head, "So, you like-a da juice?"

[glilly]

Related to the OP, check out this set of before after pics of another player mixed up in the BALCO case:

Then. (http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/giambi.jpg)
More recent. (http://www.thediamondangle.com/archive/aug01/oak/jason.jpg)

Wow, you can just see the 'roid rage in his face.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Another look. Then, (http://www.air-o-graphix.com/images/illustrations/bonds.jpg) now. (http://www.onlineathens.com/images/071703/bonds.jpg)

You know, looking at those two pictures (interesting because he is in pretty much the same posture in both), it doesn't look like he bulked up that much. His lower body looks about the same. In the newer picture he seems to be wearing a brace or some kind of protection on his right leg. The upper body seems to have bulked up, but I don't think it is beyond the point you can get with regular weight training. And I don't see his head being that huge. In fact his head looks bigger in the older picture.

What is interesting is that the stance and swing seem to be absolutely identical. That is not very common, since baseball players love to tinker with their swings and stances (just like golfers). Also, no matter how many 'roids you take, it will still be pretty damn hard to hit a 98 mph split-finger fastball. You could pump me up to the gills with steroids, and I still wouldn't be able to hit a single big-league pitch out of the infield.

[Enginerd]

"Well, he isn't suffering from the normal age-related decline, and in fact he managed to get a whole lot better at an advanced age. People just don't have the best year of their career when they're 36/37 - ESPECIALLY when they were a Hall of Famer to begin with.
I hear this a lot in debates like this one, and it always bothers me. Hank Aaron (http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/aaronha01.shtml) had his best year in 1971, the year he turned 37. Babe Ruth (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ruthba01.shtml) hit above his career averages when he was 35 and 36 (and his career averages were outrageous to start with). McGwire (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcgwima01.shtml) (admittedly not the best example) was 35 when he had his 70 HR season. Reggie Jackson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jacksre01.shtml) hit well above his career averages at the age of 36. Mike Schmidt (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schmimi01.shtml) did it at 37 and 38. The fact is that Hall of Fame caliber baseball players do have excellent years well into their late 30s.

Similarly, I have a problem with people who say, "Oh, he's gotten so much bigger, he must be using steroids." I'm only 28, and I'm a lot bigger than I was when I was 22. Bonds is a professional athlete who works out with a personal trainer, and by all acounts works his ass off, in season and off season. I'd be surprised (and his trainer would have been fired) if he wasn't bigger than he used to be.

That's not to say that Barry Bonds isn't juicing. His entanglements with BALCO and THG are suspicious, and his trainer's admission that he has provided steroids to other athletes does constitute a reason to wonder. But the assumption that he is, I think, isn't warranted.

[BwanaBob]

IANAL but where there's smoke there's fire, and there's a Mt. Pinatubo around Bonds.

[BwanaBob]

IANAL but where there's smoke there's fire, and there's a Mt. Pinatubo around Bonds.

Ooops, that's Mt. Pinatubo (http://atlas.geo.cornell.edu/education/student/volcanoes/st_helens_erup.html)

[tiny ham]

Uh, there is the matter of Bonds' personal trainer being raided by the Feds on a steroid bust. It's not all head diameter and bat speed.

The OP does say "abuse," though. I don't think he's abused anything- if he used any of that stuff, he used it the way it's supposed to be used.

Well, there's also the matter of that same trainer actually admitting to PROVIDING (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/8291427.htm?1c) steroids to Bonds and others.

The question is whether you believe Bonds TOOK said steroids, or just looked at them and kept them on his mantle.
:rolleyes:

[carterba]

Related to the OP, check out this set of before after pics of another player mixed up in the BALCO case:

Then. (http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/giambi.jpg)
More recent. (http://www.thediamondangle.com/archive/aug01/oak/jason.jpg)How old is he in the Team USA picture? Many people get a lot bigger between their late teens/early twenties and late twenties/early thirties. It's natural.

[DynoSaur]

Enginerd -

To clarify, I wasn't claiming agreement with any of the arguments I gave. They're just ones I've heard. I'm pretty much with you on everything you said.

[dougie_monty]

I would hate to be on the defendant's side if Bonds--whom I do not admire--were to institute a libel suit.
I used to read about Grover Cleveland Alexander in the 1926 Series, Cardinals vs. Yankees. He had won two gamers and probably shouldn't have expected manager Rogers Hornsby to call him again; but I still think the Rajah had more good sense than to put a "hung over" pitcher on the mound against the likes of Ruth, Gehrig & Co. Especially when the Cards were hanging onto a one-run lead; as it was, Tony Lazzeri nearly iced the game with one swing, but the fly landed foul.
To his credit, Old Pete not only fanned Lazzeri but came damn close to setting the Yankees down in the eighth and the ninth, except that Ruth was walked. Then that Bambino stupidly broke for second; O'Farrel threw him out by a mile. Maybe Ruth was hung over. :p
Old Pete was an epileptic. :(