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View Full Version : IF you were Kenneth Stilling or Kobe Bryant and wanted to escape prosecution....


Roland Deschain
04-26-2004, 02:52 AM
what countries could you choose from? Are there any nations left that won't extradite criminals (or accused) back to the United States. Obviously, Mexico would be a BAD choice given all the criminals routinely brought back from there. How about the island of Nevis, or the Caymens? How about Guatemala, or Bolivia, or maybe Paraguay. If you were someone like Kobe Bryant wouldn't you have to consider this option even if you knew that you were innocent? After all, an innocent man can still go to prison for life, it has to happen occasionally. Someone who was already a multimillionare would have to at least reflect upon this option when facing extreme prison time.

flight
04-26-2004, 02:55 AM
Yeah, but you have to give up your life, your family, and your good name. You can never come back and visit, nor can you do business here or they will take your assets.

Freejooky
04-26-2004, 03:06 AM
Roman Polanski has been in France since he raped that 13-year-old, and hasn't been extradited.

Roland Deschain
04-26-2004, 03:13 AM
however it might beat thirty years in a maximum security prison! Being wealthy in someplace like the Caymen Islands (if it would qualify) there has to be worse fates that could befall a person.

scm1001
04-26-2004, 06:32 AM
here is a list of countries with extrdition treaties with the US http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/3181.notes.html . It includes france - I dont know why Polanksy got away - may be because it wasn't a crime in france at the time?


here is a list of possible countries to try and excape to. This is out of date though - from http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=27692

"Countries which do not have extradition treaties but do maintain
diplomatic relations with the US are Afghanistan, Algeria, Armenia,
Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bophuthatswana, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burundi,
Cameroon, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, China (People's
Republic of China), Ciskei, The Comors, Cote d' Ivoire, Djibouti,
Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia,
Jordan, Korea (South), Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Madagascar, Mali,
Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Maldova, Mongolia,
Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Philippines,
Principe and San Tome, Qatar, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Saudi
Arabia, Senegal, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Western Samoa,
Yemen, Zaire, and Zimbabwe.

Countries which have neither diplomatic relations nor extradition
treaties with the US are Andorra, Angola, Bantu Homelands, Bhutan,
Bosnia, Cambodia, Ciskei, Cuba, Iran, Korea (North), Libya, Maldives,
Serbia, Somalia, Taiwan, Transkei, Vanuatu, and Vietnam."

The Maldives sounds the best bet for the good life. Suggest dont try somalia or north korea. ;) However, one suspects that some countries would transport you back to the states anyway, regardless of a treaty or not if the US wanted you badly or they didn't want you.

Roland Deschain
04-26-2004, 06:39 AM
, but I wonder how much more likely you would be to be extradited from the first group which has diplomatic relations, but no extradition treaty. My guess is that it wouldn't increase your chances of being sent home too much unless you were a really high profile perp. Of course people like Michael Jackson, and Kobe Bryant would be in that category.

scm1001
04-26-2004, 06:40 AM
actually I see that france only signed the current extradiction treaty in 1996 so that Polanksy is safe

Roland Deschain
04-26-2004, 06:41 AM
"in" with the ruling elites. Someone, like MJ could probably denounce Bush, and Castro would set him up with his own private boys school.

Fenneth Jr.
04-26-2004, 07:09 AM
Oh dear, that was uncalled for. Now i've got some evil images going round in my brain :(

Yeah, it would be an option, but its not like skipping the country is a walk in the park by any means, even if you do happen to be a multimillionaire.

elfbabe
04-26-2004, 11:20 AM
Canada only extradites for crimes that are recognized as offenses in Canada. That's why it's possible to escape the draft by going there. No draft = no crime of evading the draft. That wouldn't apply in the case of rape, of course, or most other really nasty crimes.

Cite: the master (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_141.html).

clairobscur
04-26-2004, 11:59 AM
actually I see that france only signed the current extradiction treaty in 1996 so that Polanksy is safe


Yes, but the current treaty has been signed only to adress new issues. There was already an extradition treaty between the US and France since 1909 (updated in 1970).

clairobscur
04-26-2004, 12:02 PM
As for Polanski not having been extraded, that would be because he is a French citizen, hence can't be extraded.


What I already wondered about is why he hasn't been tried in France. Perhaps someday I will investigate...

scm1001
04-26-2004, 12:29 PM
As for Polanski not having been extraded, that would be because he is a French citizen, hence can't be extraded.


What I already wondered about is why he hasn't been tried in France. Perhaps someday I will investigate...


but if commited murder in the US I am sure he could be extradited from france, french citixen or not.

Lamar Mundane
04-26-2004, 01:20 PM
I know Kobe Bryant, but who is Kenneth Stilling?

Is this a real person or a merging of the Enron crooks, Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling?

Dignan
04-26-2004, 01:57 PM
I know Kobe Bryant, but who is Kenneth Stilling?

Is this a real person or a merging of the Enron crooks, Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling?


Kenneth Stilling is the non-existant CEO of the non-existant "raptor" corporations that Enron set-up.

Yes, I'm guessing the OP just got confused.

Derleth
04-26-2004, 06:19 PM
Dignan, I think the OP meant Ken Lay. But that's really not essential.

In any case, it depends on the crime and the politics of the time. Say you go to the Maldives: Nice little island paradise with (presumably) existing relationships with US banks. Do a funds transfer and move before the Feds catch on, and laugh when the Times prints consternation and angst from the Relevant Authorities.

Except...

I'm sure the Maldives has relationships with the US. If you fled 15,000 unpaid parking tickets, this is hardly a problem: Pulling strings for a small fry isn't worth it. If, however, you shot a man in Reno (or a mannish woman named Reno ;)) just to watch him die, these could come into play. Giving your new host nation a few millions worth of good trade should be ample justification for them to ship your ass to Folsom Prison, treaty or no.

If you fled to North Korea or another country that hates the US for religio-political reasons, even homicide might not spring you back to the World. But killing one man makes you a killer, killing one million makes you a general... and a possible war criminal. If the US can persuade the UN to declare your impecunities Crimes Against Humanity, we could presumably launch uninvited aircraft into North Korean airspace and have the Green Berets (not to mention the big, burly, well-armed men beneath them) bring you home. They never leave a man behind, after all.

So, the upshot is this: If the US wants you badly enough, we'll get you.

Janx
04-26-2004, 08:27 PM
Yes: Brazil. It’s easy. Come here, get some girl pregnant. End of story. There is no extradition until
Your kid turns 21, so when he/she hits 17 or so make another. See, the government here feels that the kid is a Brazilian national, regardless of YOUR citizenship, and YOU are responsible, if you are out of the picture the Government does not want to pay for YOUR kid, so they don’t “let you go”.

If you happen to be a sports star, trade your professional prowess to national teams. They will love you. Trust me on this.

Look up “Crime of the century” about the British guy who robbed a train for millions and did just that:

Ronnie Biggs:

read all about it... (http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/caseclosed/greattrainrobbery.shtml )

Biggs stayed in Brazil making money from his fame as the one member of the Great Train Robbers who actually escaped. This was until May 2001, when he returned to England, only to be arrested on arrival, and forced to serve the remaining 25 years of his original sentence in Belmarsh Prison.

His first son got famous as a soap opera star here, then when Scotland yard was closing in due to the kids age, POW, he had another. ( a daughter if I recall). This guy actually gave tours of his house and for a fee you could be his “guest” for the weekend. He went back to England as an old man, and they nailed his butt just the same. INTERPOL knew where he was, hell, so did I. But the government wouldn’t let him go.

Roman Polansky is seen around here from time to time, no one makes a fuss besides the Paperazzi,
The feeling is that Americans just have way to much time on their hands, the police don’t care what he may or may not have done so many years ago...they have REAL crimes to deal with.

These are the famous ones...there are others.

Oh, by the way, 100 grand will go a lot further here then it will on a boat, and if you want chemicals to alter your sex drive, you just go to a pharmacy and ask, you don’t need a prescription.

Oh, and one more thing. Stay AWAY from Paraguay, you wouldn’t make it out of the airport parking lot.

:::wink:::