DC Comics Event - Identity Crisis

[CandidGamera]

Coming out in June. Details here (http://www.bradmeltzer.com/other/identity.html).

Any thoughts?

As for the murder victim.. my money's on Snapper Carr.

[Asylum]

As the 24th bajillionith series that "will have lasting ramifications for it's entire universe!", with the last one actually fulfilling the promise being Zero Hour (and all that did was manage to fuck shit up, and on a side note I am fully convinced that Dan Jurgens is illiterate, because no one can write that bad that consistently, so his stuff must just be the works of the proverbial million monkeys before they've managed to hit Shakespeare), I give it a hearty and enthusiastic, ehhh... I'll wait for the reviews.

[shy guy]

In fact, the publisher is touting Identity Crisis as the most important event since Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' 1986 seminal classic, Watchmen. The hell?

I like Brad Meltzer, so I'm semi-looking forward to it even though I know in my heart of hearts that it'll probably suck. I do like that he's using Elongated Man, though. I never liked Plastic Man in the League.

[Askia]

The most recent DC mini-series that had any lasting impact anywhere near the scope of 'WATCHMEN' was probably the Elseworlds-inspired "KINGDOM COME."

Like KC, I'm suspicious that this series, too, was inspired by lesser talents who've picked the meat of an earlier Alan Moore proposal, the oft-lamented 'TWILIGHT' project. As I recall, that series had a murder mystery at its heart, too -- the death of Billy Batson by a rogue Martian Manhunter, who assumes Captain Marvel's identity.

Snapper Carr's not a bad guess, but it's not an earthshaking one either.

[CandidGamera]

Well, doign some research, I see that other possible suggested deaths for this series, according to speculation, are Firestorm (since Ronnie Raymond is being replaced shortly as the Nuclear Man) and the Martian Manhunter, which would be just wrong.

[Psycho Pirate]

Any thoughts?
I have also heard the speculation that Ronnie Raymond will be wiped out. If they kill Martian Manhunter, I'll be extremely disappointed.

I can't say I'm looking forward to this. 'Shake-up' stories rarely do it for me, and I can't see how this one will be different.

But it just about HAS to be better than some of DC's past offerings. There have been times in the past where the DC books and/or annuals were almost unreadable because they were part of such hideous storylines as 'War of the Gods', 'Bloodlines', and 'Underworld Unleashed'. Hideous.

The last large-scale project that DC did that I enjoyed was DC One Million. I absolutely loved it. Extremely well written (biased - I'm a Grant Morrison fiend), with an interesting take on the future of the DC universe.

[CandidGamera]

But it just about HAS to be better than some of DC's past offerings. There have been times in the past where the DC books and/or annuals were almost unreadable because they were part of such hideous storylines as 'War of the Gods', 'Bloodlines', and 'Underworld Unleashed'. Hideous.

Admittedly, there are some stinkers (though I wouldn't put War of the Gods as one of them) - but look over at Marvel's track record with these sorts of events.

[Psycho Pirate]

War of the Gods wasn't too horrible I guess, but DC has been very uneven in the quality of these 'events'.

but look over at Marvel's track record with these sorts of events.
No, thank you. ;) Seriously, though, only the excellent Marvels stands out as a readable crossover from the "competition". I also enjoyed the Inifinity Gauntlet, until it turned into "The Infinity Yearly-Event".

[Psycho Pirate]

Obviously, Marvels wasn't a crossover. :smack:
I sleepy...

[cmkeller]

War of the Gods, when read in one sitting, actually makes for a pretty good story. However, when it came out, the releases were so uncoordinated that some issues were based on information from issues that were not yet available to readers. That left a sour taste in the mouths of many of us readers.

Underworld Unleashed, I actually liked.

Now Genesis...that was totally stinker-iffic. Awful. Stupid.

[CandidGamera]

Hmm.. I think I tend to enjoy most of the DC mega-crossovers.. because A.) I really like crossovers.. and B) The DC world is so integrated that most of the crossovers feel natural.

Good - Crisis, Zero Hour, DC One Million, Legends, Final Night

Middle - War of the Gods, Day of Judgment, Underworld Unleashed, Genesis

Bad - Millennium, Bloodlines, Our World at War (Or whatever it was called.)

The only good Marvel Crossovers that hop to mind are Infinity Gauntlet and Fall of the Mutants .. the rest barely coming up to middle-range, if that.

[Psycho Pirate]

Underworld Unleashed, I actually liked.
I wasn't a fan of the story, but I'll always have a little soft spot for it because it spawned a catchphrase with me and my comic / pop-culture friends.

When a celebrity is suddenly very popular (especially for no apparent reason), we say they 'lit a candle'. When a celebrity's star suddenly fades, we say 'their candle went out'.

Example: "Good grief! Vin Diesel lit a candle, didn't he?" OR "Michael Jackson's candle went out."

Well, we think it's funny.

[Fenris]

Coming out in June. Details here (http://www.bradmeltzer.com/other/identity.html).

Any thoughts?

As for the murder victim.. my money's on Snapper Carr.

I was guessing that th' victim will be the Elongated Man, but the teaser says "someone close to the JLA", so it's gotta be Snapper.

Which pisses me off. This Metzger bozo is yet another no-name* trying to make a name for himself by breaking other people's toys (regardless of which classic character he snuffs). :rolleyes: I thought that mindset died in the '80s (mercifully).

Grrrrrr....:mad:

Luckily as proven by the really stoopid Zatanna mini-series (you remember, the one where she decided that talking backwards was offensive to her as a womyn so she traded her fishnets and backwards speak for a punk outfit and started using a big hard staff to cast spells 'cause using hard, long staff with a knob on the end is sooo much more in tune with the femayle mysteries), if DC thinks the results are stupid enough (or hell, if enough fans do) DC will just ignore the mini-series.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ok with deaths that make sense for the story and/or that are appropriate. Flash's death was fine. Kara's death worked. The original Doom Patrol (which is back. Per Byrne "Who cares how!")'s death was classic. But the recent "Let's snuff Donna Troy so we can start off our new series with a "Big Event" or the crappy "Emerald Dawn" (which is being undone--GL 81 IIRC is Kyle's last issue) where they ignored 30 years of character development to try to shock the audience (it could have been done well. It wasn't.) are examples of the sort of thing I hate. And it sure sounds like this Identity Crisis thing is yet another story of that ilk.

Fenris

*As far as I can tell, his entire output was a (IMO) crappy Green Arrow arc that convinced me to drop the book.

[Czarcasm]

Am I the only one who thinks that Oracle(Barbara Gordon) is the more probable victim? She is close to the JLA, and whoever murdered her would have access to secrets that could rip apart the JLA.

[Fenris]

Am I the only one who thinks that Oracle(Barbara Gordon) is the more probable victim? She is close to the JLA, and whoever murdered her would have access to secrets that could rip apart the JLA.

I hope you're wrong (and one bit of evidence argues against the Oracle theory "rumor has it that the murder that sets the story in motion revolves around someone very close to the original Justice League"--Oracle/Batgirl didn't meet the "original" League until JLA 61 or so. So she wasn't all that close to them.) as Oracle is one of the great examples about how a good writer (Ostrander) can take a toy that someone else broke and build something better with it.

Fenris

[cmkeller]

Fenris:

This Metzger bozo is yet another no-name* trying to make a name for himself by breaking other people's toys (regardless of which classic character he snuffs).

Errr...Brad Meltzer is a best-selling novelist, whose genre specialty is mystery/suspense. He sure as heck doesn't need to "make a name for himself" in the comic book medium, and if he's killing someone (which of course is what the Previews say), it's probably for the sake of kicking off a heck of an interesting story.

I won't say I was very enamored of his Green Arrow story, but he's certainly no hack or no-name.

[Askia]

Secret identities play a central role in Identity Crisis, and the story revolves around two mysteries -- a devastating murder and a dark secret from the Justice League's past that's been hidden for years.
I swear, this "dark secret" and "devastating murder" business sounds like it was lifted right out from Alan Moore's classic 80s TWILIGHT proposal.

Brad Meltzer: "It's a murder mystery set in the DC Universe. People die, people suffer and people are changed by the time it's over. Identity Crisis is as much about the characters when the masks are off as when the masks are on." This makes me think it has to do with recent retcnned events in the DCU.

The fallout from Identity Crisis will touch every hero in the DCU -- most notably the classic lineup from the early years of the Justice League, including Green Arrow, Hawkman, Atom, Elongated Man, Zatanna and Black Canary. "Plus, every other character I could squeeze in there that I had something to say about!" laughs Meltzer. Sometimes NOT saying something says something. Note the omission of DC's Big Three, the current incarnations of Flash and Green Lantern, and the stalwart of every incarnation of the JLA: J'onn J'onnz, the Martian Manhunter. The omission of the first five merely verifies that this is the retconned JLA we're dealing with. The omission of the last character makes me go, "Hmmmmm...."

That includes the families of heroes (rumor has it that the murder that sets the story in motion revolves around someone very close to the original Justice League), as well as a legion of DC villains (look for Meltzer to put a shocking spin on some of DC's most notorious baddies).
My take: since this is a project that takes on secret identities and posits itself as the next big DCU event, my guess is that it will take advantage of recent retconned events in DCU continuity. The phase, "dark hidden secret" leads me to believe it may have something to do with the events in JLA: Year One, where J'onn J'onn did major investigative work on the secret identities of every major DCU hero, from the JSA to the Metal Men to the newly formed JLA -- files that were compromised by alien invaders who briefly enslaved Earth's heroes on Blackhawk Island using the information in J'onn's files. This hunch leads me to think J'onn J'onzz is a likelier murder victim than Snapper Carr. It's his files, his dark secret and he's the only major character outside the Big DC Three (Supes, Bats and Wondy) and the "new" Green Lantern and Flash NOT named in the link. Also, J'onn is the only hero at Marvel and DC with multiple secret identities, a fact that could have major ramifications if that fact were ever made public.

Now watch it turns out to be the Red Tornado all along.

[Fenris]

Fenris:



Errr...Brad Meltzer is a best-selling novelist, whose genre specialty is mystery/suspense. He sure as heck doesn't need to "make a name for himself" in the comic book medium, and if he's killing someone (which of course is what the Previews say), it's probably for the sake of kicking off a heck of an interesting story.

I won't say I was very enamored of his Green Arrow story, but he's certainly no hack or no-name.

:o
Thanks Chaim. I hadn't realized that he was an established writer. And the fact that he's a mystery writer does give a reason to have a character snuffed other than shock value.

I checked out rec.arts.comics.dc.universe and some of their speculation:

Sue Dibney: She knows everyone's ID, she's an obvious target--her hubby's ID is public. And the idea would be to make Ralph a darker character to distinguish him from Plastic Man. Th' problem with this is that who wants to read about Nick without Nora? It would destroy the character.

Lana Lang: ? I don't get this one. Outside of Supes I don't think she knows anyone/thing and her only current claim to fame is that she's the (ex?)President's (ex?)Wife.

Ma and/or Pa Kent: Ditto. They've seen Bats and a few others without their masks, but I thought they were on a "first name only" basis.

Kyle: This makes sense. With DC bringing back Hal and cancelling Kyle's book, it's a prime moment to snuff Kyle (although I hope not. There's room for more than one GL in DC and the character has grown on me now that we're past the whiney "Am I a reaaaaal hero yet?" stuff)

Snapper: But he doesn't know anyone's ID, so it wouldn't be all that earth-shaking.

Ronnie Raymond: There's a new Firestorm book (this week) and the guy who suggested this thought it would tie the new Firestorm book in.

A clue (http://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/p-C100322.html). Note that of the major players, GL, of the big 5, is missing. Ralph is there (and in something other than that yukky lavender and cream costume) which lends credence to the "Sue" theory. Zatanna is there though. As far as I know, Zatanna has no connection with Kyle or Sue...but she served with the character who Askia mentioned for about 20 issues. And that character isn't listed.

One other bit of speculation: the coffin may be symbolic--what if Sue (or whoever) was kidnapped, tortured (yuk) and spilled everyone's ID. S/he doesn't have to actually die, although the threat of death is there hence the coffin.

[CandidGamera]

Lots of interesting speculation.. so GL #81 is Kyle's last? What's the source on this? Who's taking over? Not Hal, surely.. I think Hal works as the Spectre.

[Psycho Pirate]

Lots of interesting speculation.. so GL #81 is Kyle's last? What's the source on this? Who's taking over? Not Hal, surely.. I think Hal works as the Spectre.
Details (& some possible spoilers) here. And don't call me Shirley. (http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12393)

[CandidGamera]

Details (& some possible spoilers) here. And don't call me Shirley. (http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12393)

Aw, crap. Thanks for the link.. sigh. Man, if Kyle swaps places with Hal and becomes the Spectre, I'll be ticked off. And the only way I'm going to tolerate Hal's return is if the Corps comes back too.

[CandidGamera]

Snapper: But he doesn't know anyone's ID, so it wouldn't be all that earth-shaking.

One other bit of speculation: the coffin may be symbolic--what if Sue (or whoever) was kidnapped, tortured (yuk) and spilled everyone's ID. S/he doesn't have to actually die, although the threat of death is there hence the coffin.

Snapper doesn't know any ID's? He hung out with the Justice League, mentored Young Justice, and was the best pal of an Android from the Future, and has no knowledge of any secret IDs? I'm skeptical.

He should know Hal, Barry, Dinah, and some of J'onn's, at least.

As for the coffin .. well, we've been promised a death in the first issue.

Interesting possible tie-ins to this arc that I've heard so far :

Relaunch of Firestorm
Possible Return of Hal Jordan
Wally's confrontation with the classic JL in the most recent Flash issues. (Which also interestingly center around the Spectre's attempts to give Wally back his secret ID)
Black Canary's tussle with an influential senator and Oracle suffering a hack-attack over in Birds of Prey.

So, basically, a year from now, the only thing distinguishing the post-Crisis DCU from the pre-Crisis DCU will be Robin's gender and Barry Allen's corpse.

[Menocchio]

So, basically, a year from now, the only thing distinguishing the post-Crisis DCU from the pre-Crisis DCU will be Robin's gender and Barry Allen's corpse.

They're doing what to Tim now? He's my favorite Robin, and doing great in Teen Titans. I'd hate to see him go.

And Barry didn't leave a corpse.

[CandidGamera]

They're doing what to Tim now? He's my favorite Robin, and doing great in Teen Titans. I'd hate to see him go.

And Barry didn't leave a corpse.

A Metaphorical corpse.

As for Tim, at least temporarily, the shoes of Robin will be filled by

Spoiler - if info I have is to be believed.

[Menocchio]

A Metaphorical corpse.

As for Tim, at least temporarily, the shoes of Robin will be filled by

Spoiler - if info I have is to be believed.

Best use of the spoiler tag ever.

Gotta be temporary, if true. Tim's locked into Teen Titans (even the cartoon, which is a helluva character shield), and she's a nobody. If they were going to have a female Robin, they'd use

What'sherface from DKR (brought over to regular continuity), or rename Batgirl, or at least create an original character without the baggage (Robin as teen mother, it ain't right) and a tailor-made origin.

[CandidGamera]

Best use of the spoiler tag ever.

Gotta be temporary, if true. Tim's locked into Teen Titans (even the cartoon, which is a helluva character shield), and she's a nobody.

Thanks. And there is some precedent for her.. she's been hanging around the cave some in the last couple years. I have no idea how long the change will last though.

[Fenris]

Snapper doesn't know any ID's? He hung out with the Justice League, mentored Young Justice, and was the best pal of an Android from the Future, and has no knowledge of any secret IDs? I'm skeptical.

He should know Hal, Barry, Dinah, and some of J'onn's, at least.


Ok, Pre Crisis, I can prove he didn't.

While individual pairs of JLAers knew who was who (Batman/Superman, Barry/Hal), the JLA didn't reveal their identities to each other en masse until JLofA #122 (which was a flashback issue---and the very first comic I ever bought off the rack which is one reason it sticks so firmly in my memory. You never forget your first! :p ). We don't know exactly when it flashed back to, but it was post Martian Manhunter, so post #71 and pre Ollie's bearded/Adams revamp, so pre #75. Snapper betrayed and left the League in #77. Given that he hadn't shown up in months I can't believe they'd reveal their identies to him.

After that, there was a brief (uncomfortable) reunion in #114 and when he temporarily turned bad in the brilliant #149-50, there was no hint he knew.

Post Crisis, we haven't seen enough of him to know, but pre-Crisis there's no way. And since the official unmasking didn't happen until JLA um...49 or 50 a few issues after the"Ras Al Gul gets ahold of Bat's contingency plans" arc. of the current series, it seems very, very unlikely that Snapper knows. He was long gone by then.

I still have a horrible suspicion it's Sue. The really ugly thing is that it would drive home the lesson that Supes always said in the Silver Age "It would put you in too much danger if I married you, Lois".

Um...and the "Identity" part of the title makes sense too. Given Hal's brainwipe of the world, Elongated Man is one of the very few heroes with a public ID. Hence, everyone knows his...identity.

Ew.

Fenris

[Askia]

Fenris, up until now I was reading your comments, muttering, "I have no earthly idea why this man is nattering on about the Elongated Man and Sue Dibny when my brilliant Manhunter deduction has so much more panache." And then you go and gut the Snapper Carr speculations, then proceed to point out a little heralded fact and come up with an extremely compelling storyline in like, three sentences. YOU. DA. MAN!!

And franky your Pre-Crisis knowledge makes me wish classic superhero questions came up on Millionaire, because you'd be MY lifeline, anytime.

[Fenris]

Fenris, up until now I was reading your comments, muttering, "I have no earthly idea why this man is nattering on about the Elongated Man and Sue Dibny when my brilliant Manhunter deduction has so much more panache." And then you go and gut the Snapper Carr speculations, then proceed to point out a little heralded fact and come up with an extremely compelling storyline in like, three sentences. YOU. DA. MAN!!

And franky your Pre-Crisis knowledge makes me wish classic superhero questions came up on Millionaire, because you'd be MY lifeline, anytime.

Thank you! :)

And while I like your Manhunter idea (I'd rather it be the Manhunter than Sue, frankly and it does have more panache), A) Manhunter is much more saleable in today's market. He sold a surprisingly mediocre series (given that one of my all-time favorites, John Ostrander wrote it, it never...jelled for me....it's like he was trying to get a grasp on the character) which lasted for...what? 25 issues? In today's economy, that's pretty good. B) He has much more face-recognition, C) Outside of a few old fogies (gad! ;) ) no-one cares about Ralph and Sue (Ralph hasn't had a solo story snce...what? 1990? 1985?) and no-one can really write them correctly anymore (Whatshisname...the guy who wrote Starman excluded...his Ralph & Sue rocked) nowdays anyway (ditto with Adam Strange).

Sigh.

Man, I hope I'm wrong.

Regarding the Hal/Spectre thing, I never cared for the idea. If you look on rec.arts.comics.dc.universe in "Google Groups" you can see that the "Hal as Spectre" thing started there, at least 2-3 years before DC actually did it...but it was a joke (The Specter's big, green and pissed off, Hal-actus is big, green and pissed off--just kill off Hal-actus and you get two, TWO, TWO characters for the price of one!) Note to DC: We were kidding! (and really, we were kidding about the Suicide Squid too!). I'm glad Hal's going to be fixed, but it's sounding more and more like it's at the expense of Kyle...and that would be stupid. Why on earth piss off the Kyle fans like they did the Hal fans? It's possible to keep both groups happy. No-one insists on either character being the only GL out there (now that Kevin Dooley's gone).

Undo the dreadful Emerald Twilight, bring Hal back as a hero (so he never did any of the Emerald Twilight stuff--which never made sense on a number of levels) and keep them both around. It's really not all that confusing...they wear different clothes after all.

Regarding Robin, it's supposed to be long-term. The reasoning for Tim taking a break (and Willingham is being very good about not breaking other's toys, so Tim's perfectly able to come back with no ill-effects when the next writer takes over) are quite reasonable. In addition, I've always liked Spoiler--it's refreshing to see a character who's costumed to prevent crime rather than reacting to being victimized and when it comes down to it Bill "Fables" Willingham is writing it so you know it's good.

Fenris

[CandidGamera]

Ok, Pre Crisis, I can prove he didn't.

...

I still have a horrible suspicion it's Sue. The really ugly thing is that it would drive home the lesson that Supes always said in the Silver Age "It would put you in too much danger if I married you, Lois".

...

Um...and the "Identity" part of the title makes sense too. Given Hal's brainwipe of the world, Elongated Man is one of the very few heroes with a public ID. Hence, everyone knows his...identity.


Interesting notes on Snapper.. but as you say, we just don't know enough of the post-Crisis JLA history. I wish they'd do a JLA : Year Two miniseries.

As for Sue - the trouble is that she's so insigificant. She and Ralph aren't high-profile at all. Aside from Formerly Known as the Justice League, and a cameo shot in one of the latest Flash issues, I can't think of any place I've seen either of them in ages. And she's really not that close to the original JLA .. Black Canary, Hal, and Aquaman never had much interaction with her.. she had some contact with J'onn when they were working at separate branches of the JLI.. and of course, Barry and Ralph were great pals - but that's still no connection to the original team as a whole.

Now, Snapper, on the other hand, had a lengthy supporting role in Hourman and then a less lengthy supporting role in Young Justice.

As for the Identity in the title.. obviously identities are at stake in the story, but one can connect that element with almost any victim one cares to name.

Hey, maybe it's Triumph? ;)

[holmes]

Um...and the "Identity" part of the title makes sense too. Given Hal's brainwipe of the world, Elongated Man is one of the very few heroes with a public ID. Hence, everyone knows his...identity.


Years and years and years ago there was this, I guess "interview" of the JLA, where Ralph is asked if he's worried about Sue being attacked or hurt by his enemies, as he doesn't have a secret ID. He says, "No, if anyone ever tried to hurt my Sue, I would stretch my elongated fingers down his throat and rip out...."

The quote ended. I always thought of that...as a deterrent of sorts. I guess we'll see if it worked.

[Fenris]

Interesting notes on Snapper.. but as you say, we just don't know enough of the post-Crisis JLA history. I wish they'd do a JLA : Year Two miniseries.
The one thing we do know is that they did not reveal their IDs in "Year One" and that they did reveal them around JLA #50 (give or take), which was after Snapper left.

As for Sue - the trouble is that she's so insigificant. She and Ralph aren't high-profile at all. Aside from Formerly Known as the Justice League, and a cameo shot in one of the latest Flash issues, I can't think of any place I've seen either of them in ages. And she's really not that close to the original JLA .. Black Canary, Hal, and Aquaman never had much interaction with her.. she had some contact with J'onn when they were working at separate branches of the JLI.. and of course, Barry and Ralph were great pals - but that's still no connection to the original team as a whole.
That's a good point and I can't refute it.


Hey, maybe it's Triumph? ;)
I can do you better: maybe it's Vibe (or worse, his little brother Reverb)...both of whom talk like Charo.

Talking to my local comic dealer, he's convinced that the corpse is Kyle. He makes a convincing case:

1) No GL on the cover.
2) Hal's new series AND a quote from the new writer (I forgot the name) to the effect of "Hal will be back, as will the GL corps. I'll have every GL ever to play with! Um...except one."
3) Killing one of the top 5 known characters is certainly an important death.
4) (I quote someone else in the store who overheard this and joined in) "Plus, Kyle's just an idiot. I mean, he lost his ring to Validus. Let's face it...snuffing the guy is no harder than offering him a handful of magic beans for his ring and then just shoot him when he hands it over." I don't agree, personally (unless it's Kyle under Marz/Dooley) but it was a funny line.

Then the anti-Kyle guy who butted in said (more or less) "Anyway you're both wrong. It's Lois. Too many people know who she is, the "married Superman" thing is stale, Chuck Austin (who's writing one of the Sup books*) hates Lois, plus, nothing would shake the DCU more. Killing the Martian Manhunter? Who cares? Killing Superman? Been there, done that. But Lois??"

Me? I don't buy it. The marketing guys had a cow when Robin was killed and made O'Neill bring Robin back (very much against O'Neil's will) and Lois is probably almost as marketable as Robin, so there's like zero chance that he'll be allowed to snuff Lois. But it's a creepily logical thought.

So...I dunno. But I'll say this: if the choices are 1) Sue, 2) Jonn, 3) Snapper 4) Lois and 5) Kyle, then my vote is bye-bye Kyle (but I prefer "None of the above". )

*along with about 200 other titles a month, none of them actually good. To me, Chuck Austin is a good, competent writer at best. But that's all. "Competent". He's no Gerry Conway leaving broken, crapped upon books in his wake, but lord he's not good. I don't know anyone who goes out of their way to buy a book with his name on it a-la Gaiman or Busiek (although they don't avoid him either) so how's he managing to write like 40 books a month including some cherry titles?

[cmkeller]

Fenris:

4) (I quote someone else in the store who overheard this and joined in) "Plus, Kyle's just an idiot. I mean, he lost his ring to Validus.

Really? When did he ever face Validus? I'm a big Legion man, and I don't remember that.

[Kamino Neko]

I'm a big Legion man, and I don't remember that.

Speaking of the Legion, I wonder whether the return of the GLC will have any effect on them.

[JDeMobray]

Speaking of the Legion, I wonder whether the return of the GLC will have any effect on them.Man, I hope not. Most of the time now I think the safest possible thing for the Legion writers to do is work to avoid any references to the contemporary DC universe so that when the next Crisis/Zero Hour/Whatever rolls around they won't be screwed over quite as badly.

[Chronos]

A point to consider: Is whoever-it-is actually going to, you know, stay dead? I realize that Marvel is a lot worse on this score than is DC, but then again, Superman. And characters in comics in general seem to have a hard time staying dead.

[Fenris]

Fenris:Really? When did he ever face Validus? I'm a big Legion man, and I don't remember that.

I don't know. I didn't ask but I don't remember it myself either. The only thing I could think of is during some crossover event or other (maybe whichever one left Inferno stranded in the past?).

Maybe he was just using hyperbole...he certainly seemed...um..passionate about the topic of Kyle. :p

Fenris

[Askia]

Then the anti-Kyle guy who butted in said (more or less) "Anyway you're both wrong. It's Lois. Too many people know who she is, the "married Superman" thing is stale, Chuck Austin (who's writing one of the Sup books) hates Lois, plus, nothing would shake the DCU more. Killing the Martian Manhunter? Who cares? Killing Superman? Been there, done that. But Lois??"

Me? I don't buy it. The marketing guys had a cow when Robin was killed and made O'Neill bring Robin back (very much against O'Neil's will) and Lois is probably almost as marketable as Robin, so there's like zero chance that he'll be allowed to snuff Lois. But it's a creepily logical thought.

So...I dunno. But I'll say this: if the choices are 1) Sue, 2) Jonn, 3) Snapper 4) Lois and 5) Kyle, then my vote is bye-bye Kyle (but I prefer "None of the above".) I actually agree that the death of Lois Lane would be one hellava ballsy move -- but a storyline like that in the current political climate strikes me as a bit unlikely. While the nation is at war, soldiers/reporters dying in Iraq, reports of POW abuse in a presidential election year, does anyone want to see Superman's WIFE killed by one of his enemies? It would be picked up in the national press, and unless it was a very, VERY well written storyline (I'm talking Eisner award winning-quality writing here), it would be roundly condemned. I mean, we all know there would be some long drawn out grieving process by Superman/Clark before her eventual resurrection, but this kind of storyline would make higher-ups balk before giving a greenlight. Too dicey, no dice.

Made for an interesting five minutes of speculation, tho.

[CandidGamera]

I actually agree that the death of Lois Lane would be one hellava ballsy move -- but a storyline like that in the current political climate strikes me as a bit unlikely. While the nation is at war, soldiers/reporters dying in Iraq, reports of POW abuse in a presidential election year, does anyone want to see Superman's WIFE killed by one of his enemies? It would be picked up in the national press, and unless it was a very, VERY well written storyline (I'm talking Eisner award winning-quality writing here), it would be roundly condemned. I mean, we all know there would be some long drawn out grieving process by Superman/Clark before her eventual resurrection, but this kind of storyline would make higher-ups balk before giving a greenlight. Too dicey, no dice.

Made for an interesting five minutes of speculation, tho.

Here's a thing - in the latest issue of Superman - we've apparently jumped forward a year - he apparently has just come back form deep space where he was bailing out Kyle from a situation.. and I got the distinct impression that Lois was one of the people who'd vanished in the meantime.