Why cant anyone make a legal non-harming, rec. drug?

[CandyBoi]

Take for instance, pot. If u minused the legal issues and health stuff, id be all over it, so would alot of other ppl. So, why then cant companys make a pill or something that has the same postive effect (feel good, relaxed ect) but make it so they dont harm the way pot does (bad short term, mood swings ect)?

[Whammo]

*L* DUH!!!! Its called BEER, Candy! ..sheesh.

[KP]

There's a very good reason. I call it "KP's Law". I wrote it for herbal medicine, but it applies to foods and drugs, too.

"Anything that has a physiologically significant effect, will have a physiologically significant side effect. Why? Because God never said 'Hey, I'll create a perfect cure for PMS, and stuck it in the top of a Burmese jungle canopy."

I'm not against 'alternative medicine'. I just believe that we need to face the fact that our *goal* is to mess with a physiology that's evolved over billions of years. Therefore we cannot use *any* agent blindly.

However, to be fair, the same applies to diet. I support a healthy diet (even if I don't always have one) but I think we will eventually have to accept that there is no 'perfect' diet -- the things we eat affect us, and while there are generally helpful guidelines, the exceptions will always surprise us. For example, beta carotenes (a yellow pigment found in carrots, and many yellow or green leafy vegetables) reduces the risk for some cancers -- except in common high-risk groups, where it can increase risk according to the latest clinical trials I've read. (It has a definite pro-carcinogenic effect in smokers for example)

The same with recreational drugs. I don't doubt there may be relatively safe ones, but they will never be perfectly safe. (and US society has a calvinistic streak a mile wide, so 'recreation' is somehow frowned upon. just one example of the quirks and hypocracies any society will have)

Also, if you alter your mental functioning, you alter your relationship to machines (cars) and social roles designed around 'normal' functioning. People with an IQ much above 140 (genius) have a higher suicide and mental disorder rate than people with IQs of 80 (borderline retarded), and a drug that gave you super-reflexes for driving would probably cause accidents among the people you swerved around.

Hope that helps. Bet it doesn't. Sorry

[CandyBoi]

Well now, if thats the case...my IQ of 143...id be really prone to removeing my self from our festering gene pool...sounds fine with me...but no one has touched on the fact, why cant we?

[Chrome Toaster]

Most of those who feel the overwhelming urge to brag about their IQs can't seem to spell or punctuate very well?

Hmmm...

On to the drug issue, could you imagine if everyone went to work stoned out of their minds daily because they could? And don't try to tell me that everyone would use it responsibly and with discretion.

Why do you feel that you need drugs to feel good?

[KP]

Well now, if thats the case...my IQ of 143...id be really prone to removeing my self from our festering gene pool

I said "much above" (because that was the conclusiuon in the literature). Sorry, but your three extra points barely makes a dent.

You would do well to remember that there are those to whom 143 (to the extent IQ means anything at all) is not very impressive.

..sounds fine with me...but no one has touched on the fact, why cant we?

I believe I stated: "Anything that has a physiologically significant effect, will have a physiologically significant side effect."

In short, if you alter a complex system [and I believe an 'altered mental state' is what you call 'recreation'), complex side effects will ensue. "Side effects" (in this case: unintended physiological consequences) are almost by definition deviations from normal good health, hence unsafe. You can demonstrate this with chaos theory or even simple differential equations as a model.

Yes, there is a miniscule mathematical possibility that the side effects would be entirely pleasant. If this interests you, I would suggest it is a worthy use of your 143.

Oh I'm sorry, was your question "Why can't anyone make a legal non-harming recreationsl drug for me?"

Then the answer seems to be... because everyone who 'could' doesn't seem interested in indulging you. Sorry.

[psycat90]

Why do you feel that you need drugs to feel good?


Who said anything about need?

Feeling good is fun.

Sex makes me feel good.
Rollercoasters make me feel good.
Wine makes me feel good.

I don't need any of those to live(well the first one, technically, no, but personally, yes)

It's nice to feel different experiences. Obviously not for everyone, and most definately, relating to the OP, many have serious health risks, but for those willing to give it a shot, I say go for it, no harm, no foul.

Oh, and I thought that they had made a pseudo-pot pill, for glaucoma, cancer patients, etc. ???

[KP]

Clinical trials are being conducted with these 'pot-pills', but as far as I know, none have been FDA approved for any specific applications. However, they don't give a 'buzz' (or a very tiny one, at best)

Also (and I was a little disappointed to hear this, on general principle), a recent review of studies in either JAMA or The New England Journal showed that the benefits of marijuana in glaucoma turn out to be fairly minor compared to early reports.

The primary medically indicated use of marijuana is in cachexia -- the "wasting away" that is associated with cancer, AIDS, etc. In short, marijuana induces "the munchies" -- a prime example of what I said about side effects.

[Initial Entry]

Well, as far as health effects-neglecting the impairment to reflexes and such that results(well, that sort of thing is the reason you take it) GHB (gamma-hydroxy butyrate)is pretty damn healthy. You can't really overdose on it, and it doesn't cause any long term(ie past the immediate effects) effects.

The only real problem is that, being a CNS depressant, it can exaggerate the effects of other CNS depressants(like alcohol). This has occasionally resulted in people getting sick(like if they had taken sleeping pills and then drank a beer or two.)

As for illegal, well it's still legal in some states, but they're moving to ban it. The more cynical side of me suspects that it has something to do with it's effectiveness and safety as a sleeping pill( pharmeceutical companies don't want the competition).

[OpalCat]

Why do you feel that you need drugs to feel good?


Why do people always say this? Like if I say "I think the feeling of being high/stoned/altered is fun once in a while" you equate that with "I can't have fun/feel good without drugs" and that is just STUPID.

I'll confess that I've done drugs here and there. And they were fun. And I don't regret them. I never NEEDED them, I've never been addicted to anything, and I have plenty of fun without drugs.

An analogy would be if you like chocolate... and someone said "so you can't enjoy food unless it's chocolate..."

[starfish]

Read the laws. If as you say, it is legal, then you can do it. You do not need FDA approval if you do not claim health benefits. Make your money fast. Politicians do not like people to have fun. They will ban it and you will have to stop and make something different.

[Danielinthewolvesden]

Remember the Old Fabulous Furry Freaks brothers? they had a great quote: "anything that can kill you can make you high". It can be reversed to "anything that can make you high, can kill you". :D

Nitrous is pretty damn safe, if you use it right, and it is not illegal. :D

[SPOOFE]

So, why then cant companys make a pill or something that has the same postive effect (feel good, relaxed ect) but make it so they dont harm the way pot does (bad short term, mood swings ect)?

They did. It's called "caffeine".

[GaWd]

Uhh...GHB won't make you sick from taking it with alcohol, you'll just drift into a near-coma sleep. You'll probably die if you drink enough.

An idiot friend(estranged friend, we haven't talked in a good 4 years) of mine thought he was cool. He decided that instead of just selling pot and crank he'd start making GHB at home. He was selling the stuff at a town party thing in Chico, and 3 kids OD'd on the stuff. Bad scene man, a really bad scene. The town's kids got together and chased him down and beat his ass. He's currently doing hard time.

On the other hand, if the GHB that was referred to was a derivative known as "Blue Nitro" or one of the other many monickers it's carried in the last 3 years, it's pretty safe. Just don't DRINK!

And how about Nitrous? It's relatively safe, given that you aren't donning a mask and doing hits, sold OTC, few side effects if any. I've heard that if you do too much you get sick to your stomach and sometimes pass out if you do WAYY too much. It's legal...

Just don't take your drug experimentation terribly far...

-Sam

[KP]

I will agree that there are fewer documented side effects from GHB than from many commonly abused drugs, but the 'coma-like' state is a real whopper!

Passing out from lesser depressants like alcohol is enough to cause a whole text book of serious effects. GHB is worse

One of the milder disorders is "Saturday Night Palsy" where passing out drunk with an arm over the back of a chair (or with a lovely young thing[1] on your arm) can cause nerve damage, weakness and numbness, that takes months to recover.

Aspiration pneumonia, caused by inhaling your own secretions or vomit is rather common in alcoholics. In fact, people can drown in their own drool or vomit when passed out. Your body's protective reflexes are suppressed

GHB causes a deeper coma, and does so more readily. Also, it makes some people violently ill. IIRC, there was some debate over whether one can develop a sensitivity to it, as well.

Nothing in ordinary experience compares to a GHb coma. It is not just a nap. There are places on the body that a doctor can press or pinch to cause a surprising pain to test for reflexive motion (and hence, the degree of unconsciousness) In the ER, you can see *anaesthetic* level unconsciousness -- akin to the level we induce in the emergency room.

Being that deeply unconscious without proper medical supervision is dangerous. That's why there's a separate anesthesiologist in the OR whose job it is to keep the patient alive as the surgeon operates.



[1] All women are lovely and young. But as they grow older they don't flaunt it as much. I think I'll make that my new sig!

[OpalCat]

They did. It's called "caffeine".


Caffeine doesn't do squat for me. I'm somehow naturally immune.

Oh, and huffing nitrous IS illegal. Owning nitrous isn't illegal, but using it to get high is.

[SPOOFE]

If caffeine doesn't do anything for you, just UP the dosage! You need a lot of caffeine 'fore it'd kill ya. And a six-pack of Jolt or Surge ain't nearly as expensive as other "drugs".

[justwannano]

Go outside after a rain and take three deep breaths.

Ride a motorcycle without the helmet

smell a campfire

take your shoes off and go wading

And they don't even cost a dime-except if you get hooked on the motorcycle thing.

[Demo]

Ride a motorcycle without the helmet

Although I used to love doing this, I'd advise against it, but I sure love the point you make. Campfires, mmmm...

[OpalCat]

If caffeine doesn't do anything for you, just UP the dosage! You need a lot of caffeine 'fore it'd kill ya. And a six-pack of Jolt or Surge ain't nearly as expensive as other "drugs".


I've taken 4 or 5 NoDoze at a time and been alseep 20 minutes later.

And no, it isn't that I have built up a resistence.... I drink coffee or caffeinated tea a couple of times a year and I mostly drink Sprite when I have soda.

[handy]

LOVE, folks, the greatest pleasure drug of all time.

[Dumbguy]

It's truly amazing to me that someone would recommend against using drugs (presumably because you think they're dangerous), and would then go on to suggest that someone ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Talk about an irrational inability to judge risk.

I've done my share of drugs (I've also wrecked a motorcycle on the freeway), and there certainly can be a lot of negative consequences, but there are to many things, especially love. I've seen as many people emotionally devastated or driven to manic self-destructive behavior by love as by drugs, yet love has such better PR that its value is rarely questioned. To even suggest that drugs can have positive effects gets you labeled subversive or dangerous or unstable. At their worst, love and drugs and motorcycles are all very dangerous, even deadly. At their best, they can open your heart and help you know beauty.

Incidentally, beauty is a subjective perception that occurs in your mind as a result of chemicals flowing across synapses. Or internal drugs.

[Lexicon]

I think that we do have a drug that kicks ass.

I know that I am totally addicted and so are a lot of people.

The adverse affects include soreness of eyes, madness of SO, neglect of work, and loss of sleep.

The highs are making new friends, increasing IQ, learning new things, hysterical laughter, and generally having fun.

I am talking, of course, about

http://www.straightdope.com

[SPOOFE]

LOVE, folks, the greatest pleasure drug of all time.

Are you insane? The side effects alone probably make this one of the worst drugs on the planet.

I still stand by caffeine, all the way. Or, better yet, Guarana (anyone read my MPSIMS thread about Josta?).

[neutron star]

You need a lot of caffeine 'fore it'd kill ya.


But you only need a couple hundred milligrams to make your stomach hurt so bad that you wished you were dead.

And caffeine is hardly free of side effects :

[quote]
What side effects may I notice from taking caffeine?
Side effects that you should report to your prescriber or health care professional as soon as possible:
•anxiety or panic reactions
•confusion
•dizziness, lightheadedness, or fainting spells
•fast or irregular breathing or heartbeat (palpitations)
•muscle twitching
•nausea and vomiting
•seizures (convulsions)
•trembling

Side effects that usually do not require medical attention (report to your prescriber or health care professional if they continue
or are bothersome):
•diarrhea
•frequent passing of urine
•headache
•nervousness, restlessness
•stomach upset

If you have been a regular caffeine user you can get withdrawal symptoms if you stop taking caffeine. Symptoms include tiredness, dizziness, headache, anxiety, or nervousness. This can be a weekend effect for people who drink a lot of coffee during their working week.
[quote]

[Lexicon]

LOVE, folks, the greatest pleasure drug of all time.


You love her,
but she loves him.
And he loves somebody else,
you just can't win.

I've had the blues, the reds and the pinks.
One thing's for sure...

LOVE STINKS.

Love stinks, yeah yeah...

[InsanityIncarnate]

I will not start singing "all you need is love"
I will not start singing "all you need is love"
I will not start singing "all you need is love"
I will not start singing "all you need is love"
I will not start singing "all you need is love"
I will not.........