Making guesses about poster's age, occupation, etc.

[Dog80]

In this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=257802), the OP asks about the usefulness of studying history.

And one of the replies:

My guess is that Studioworks is:

a. currently in school (high school would be my guess)

b. failing History.
Ok, this comment was said in a tongue-in-cheek manner, so I won't take it too seriously. But other cases are quite annoying.

For example, on another thread I made a comment on house rules for teenagers (my position was against some rule). One of the replies I got was along the lines "Oh, I get it. You are a teenager living with his parents".
I am 24 and currently living two time zones away from my parents, so this comment couldn't be more far off.

Anyway, I find such comments quite rude. I believe it is also a mild form of an Ad Hominem attack.

[Evil Captor]

Anyway, I find such comments quite rude. I believe it is also a mild form of an Ad Hominem attack.

Nothing mild about it, it's a straight-up ad hominem attack.

[Kymodoce]

Ah yes, but nobody expects the ad hominem attack..our chief weapon is surprise! Surprise and fear!.. wait...Our chief weapons are... I'll come in again.

[WernhamHogg]

It's not necessarily an ad hominem attack, it all depends on how it's done. For instance, if you're discussing parent-teenager relationships, and one poster is obviously under the impression parents are just old fuddy duddies who want to spoil fun for the teens, it strikes me as legitimate for someone to acknowledge that your perspective is that of a teen, and not of a parent.

[Aldebaran]

I have a few stalkers (mehitabel and gum come to mind) who follow me around and disrupt ongoing discussions just to post the most idiotic comments on "who" I am or "what" I am and "where" I live and "what" I do.

So doing this is actually against the board rules? That is a fun thing to know.
I never saw any moderator make a comment on such posts though.


Salaam. A

[gum]

Hi Aldebaran And how are you, this fine Monday? :D

[Munch]

I have a few stalkers (mehitabel and gum come to mind) who follow me around and disrupt ongoing discussions just to post the most idiotic comments on "who" I am or "what" I am and "where" I live and "what" I do.

So doing this is actually against the board rules? That is a fun thing to know.
I never saw any moderator make a comment on such posts though.


Salaam. A
A, I don't believe there's any specific rule regarding that. But if done enough, I'd imagine it could very well spill into "Being A Jerk" territory. I'd e-mail a mod for clarification (and don't expect a quick response - they get a LOT of e-mail (I know you've had poor/non-responses in the past)). Or post a non-specific question (i.e. not calling out any specific Dopers) in ATMB.

[Zoe]

Rumor has it that John Carter of Mars has the wisdom of a forty year old in the body of a twenty-five year old. He does Calvin Klein billboard ads just for fun, but in real life is a professor of philosophical linguistics and linguistic philosophy at Cornell. (He cross trained.)

[John Carter of Mars]

There is a reason that Zoe is very, very wise. It is because Zoe is very, very, very ancient.

[Evil Captor]

It's not necessarily an ad hominem attack, it all depends on how it's done. For instance, if you're discussing parent-teenager relationships, and one poster is obviously under the impression parents are just old fuddy duddies who want to spoil fun for the teens, it strikes me as legitimate for someone to acknowledge that your perspective is that of a teen, and not of a parent.

Still ad hominem. The message is, "You're a teen, I'm a parent, I know better." It may or may not be true, but it's DEFINITELY ad hominen AND an appeal to authority.

[WernhamHogg]

Still ad hominem. The message is, "You're a teen, I'm a parent, I know better." It may or may not be true, but it's DEFINITELY ad hominen AND an appeal to authority.

That's not what I said, but whatever. Your response is exactly what I'd exepect from a 43 year old African American banker.

[gobear]

Still ad hominem. The message is, "You're a teen, I'm a parent, I know better." It may or may not be true, but it's DEFINITELY ad hominen AND an appeal to authority.

No, it is NOT an "ad hominem," in that it's not attacking the speaker, but the speaker's perspective. Sorry, but as wise as some teens can be and as immature as some older folks can be, there are some areas of expertise that a teen cannot possibly know--how to deal with marital problems, home ownership, how to manage one's career, what it was like to live through the 70s. It is fatuous in the extreme to pretend that some 16-year-old kid has anything useful to contribute to the discussion.

"I'm the grownup and you're the kid," I agree, is a fallacious appeal to authority, but refusing to acknowledge that teens lack experience in many of the stages of life is equally wrong.

[Cisco]

I had some trouble a few days after buying a new car earlier this year. I was talking to the sales manager and I told him I didn't like the way he handled his team of employees (they had been incredibly rude to me, and I caught them in several deliberate lies), he said "I don't think you're old enough or have a good enough job to be telling me how to do mine."

I seriously almost punched him.

[silenus]

Well, seeing as how it was my comment that inspired this little pitting.....

A. I answered his question.

B. My comment was directed at the tone of his post, which anyone can see is that of a whiny schoolboy (Why do we have to study this? It's booooooring! )

This is hardly an ad hominem attack.

[SpoilerVirgin]

The biggest problem with making guesses about a poster's age, occupation, etc. is that sooner or later you're going to be wrong, and end up looking like a big jerk. I laughed myself silly in this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=254971), in which a poster advised David Simmons to "realize that you are young and haven't spent decades thinking about the subject [being discussed]."

Better to attack the substance of the argument and not make assumptions about the poster.

[John Carter of Mars]

Now that I’ve had all day to consider this: Zoe, ya’ shouldn’t have ratted me out. Giving away my secret life as a Kalvin Cline model was the last straw!

Hear ye, hear ye, to wit:

I have it on the very best authority that Zoe’s recent trip to Paris was not the innocent foreign tour she would have us believe. Oh no, friends. There was much more to it than that.

One of Shodan’s spies followed our heroine through the slums of Paris and down the steps of many different cellars into dens of absinthe and iniquity. There, seated at scarred tables and slugging down water-glasses of that foul beverage, absinthe, amid clouds of hashish smoke so thick they could be cut with a knife, Zoe plotted the downfall of civilization as we know it.

Indeed, our lithe Mistress of MayhemTM fit into these surroundings so well that the only things to indicate that she was an American were her peace-symbol earrings fashioned from Viet Nam War era 50 cal. bullet casings and her faded Levi’s jacket with the delicately embroidered inscription: “Dick Nixon before he dicks us”.

And now I suppose you dear friends of the SDMB want to know of the evil plot that’s being hatched by the Siren of McTyeire HallTM. Her plan is diabolical in its simplicity:

She plans to aid and abet the importation of thousands of bottles of French wine, and then serve such French wine to the unsuspecting delegates to the Republican Convention in New York August 30th through September 2nd. Yes, dear friends: French wine at the ‘Pubbie’s convention! Can you believe that a Charter Member here would stoop so low?

Zoe, ya’ could have made us proud. Instead we’ve got this… this…ABOMINATION to deal with!

[Zoe]

John Carter your attempts to flatter me in your second post have failed miserably. And let's keep Monsieur Mayhem out of this.

BTW, you are uncanny on some things that you could not know about. The oldest possession that I have in a small treasure box is a bullet casing. I've had it 55 years.[/size]

Ahem!

Someone's coming...Behave...It's Lynn...

(Cough) As I was saying, there are times when it might be appropriate to point out that age differences are having an obvious effect on perspective. But it can be done tactfully. I see it accusations about age used to ridicule posters; I've done it myself when someone was deliberately trying to mislead others about his age.

We ancient :rolleyes: ones realize, I think, that we don't have a monopoly on wisdom and that the youngsters haven't cornered the market on boorish behavior.

[John Carter of Mars]

Nice shot re: Monsieur Mayhem!

Um, Lynne's coming?

Present company excepted, of course, some of the most enjoyable and informative posts I've read here have been by teenagers. Conversely, some of the most tiresome have been by alleged adults.

I don't agree with the OP that poster's comments are automatically discounted because of age. I have found that boorishness has not been patented by any particular age group.

Hi, Lynne! ;)

[Bryan Ekers]

I have a few stalkers (mehitabel and gum come to mind) who follow me around and disrupt ongoing discussions just to post the most idiotic comments

T be fair, you always take the first drink from that well.

[Evil Captor]

No, it is NOT an "ad hominem," in that it's not attacking the speaker, but the speaker's perspective. Sorry, but as wise as some teens can be and as immature as some older folks can be, there are some areas of expertise that a teen cannot possibly know--how to deal with marital problems, home ownership, how to manage one's career, what it was like to live through the 70s. It is fatuous in the extreme to pretend that some 16-year-old kid has anything useful to contribute to the discussion.

"I'm the grownup and you're the kid," I agree, is a fallacious appeal to authority, but refusing to acknowledge that teens lack experience in many of the stages of life is equally wrong.

To be perfectly boorish about it, and ad hominem attack is an ad hominem attack even when there may be some substance to the attack. Frex, "It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand" is an ad hominem attack on white debaters, implying there are some elements of black culture white people can't grasp. While it may well be true that some elements of black culture are hard for white people to understand, making such claims still amounts to an ad hominem attack -- the proper thing to do is to examine the specific "thing" under discussion. It's just the same with "You're a teen, you wouldn't understand."

[Rysler]

there are some areas of expertise that a teen cannot possibly know--how to deal with marital problems, home ownership, how to manage one's career, what it was like to live through the 70s. It is fatuous in the extreme to pretend that some 16-year-old kid has anything useful to contribute to the discussion.

That's complete bullshit. At 14 when I became internet savvy I had the pleasure of watching several marriages of older people fall apart, listened to countless personal stories on how not finishing high school/not going to college has a far greater affect at 40 than at 20. No substitute for experience? I hope making stupid mistakes with my life is not a requirement for maturity. :rolleyes: I've also spent serious time studying the sociological environment of the 1970s, and could probably publish papers on what it's like to live through the decade, even though I haven't lived it myself (on particular, researchable aspects, not a blanket I-know-everything, of course).

But that matters not because I'm young? Age discrimination seems to be the most prevalent form of discrimination left in internet communication, and it pisses me off, because like all other forms of discrimination, it's completely baseless, ignorant, and harmful.

[dantheman]

That's complete bullshit. At 14 when I became internet savvy I had the pleasure of watching several marriages of older people fall apart, listened to countless personal stories on how not finishing high school/not going to college has a far greater affect at 40 than at 20. No substitute for experience? I hope making stupid mistakes with my life is not a requirement for maturity. :rolleyes: I've also spent serious time studying the sociological environment of the 1970s, and could probably publish papers on what it's like to live through the decade, even though I haven't lived it myself (on particular, researchable aspects, not a blanket I-know-everything, of course).

But that matters not because I'm young? Age discrimination seems to be the most prevalent form of discrimination left in internet communication, and it pisses me off, because like all other forms of discrimination, it's completely baseless, ignorant, and harmful.

Reading about someone else's marriage is in no way a substitute for actually experiencing marriage.

The thing is, anyone can publish a paper on research they've done on a particular topic. However, what they turn up in their research will be nothing more than the experiences of others. Great insights usually come from those who have experienced it firsthand.

Let's say one person, age 14 has recently researched the sociological impact of divorce. A second person has recently been divorced. There will be certain details that the latter will know that the former cannot, even though extensive (but secondhand, at best) research.

Saying someone lacks experience is not a form of age discrimination. People of any age can lack experience in something. I lack experience in marriage and divorce and therefore am completely unqualified to offer an opinion on either. It is logical to assume that a 14-year-old would share that lack of experience on both fronts and would be equally unqualified.

The bottom line is that experience offers a perspective that mere research can never convey.

[TeaElle]

That's complete bullshit. At 14 when I became internet savvy I had the pleasure of watching several marriages of older people fall apart,
And you think that makes you knowledgable about how to deal with problems within a marriage?

[gobear]

That's complete bullshit. At 14 when I became internet savvy I had the pleasure of watching several marriages of older people fall apart, listened to countless personal stories on how not finishing high school/not going to college has a far greater affect at 40 than at 20. No substitute for experience? I hope making stupid mistakes with my life is not a requirement for maturity. :rolleyes:

Actually, it is. Making stupid mistakes is how you learn in life.

And watching a marriage fail is not the same as being in a marriage that's ending. And you watched through the Internet? Dude, you have much to learn about the difference between viewing and living.

I've also spent serious time studying the sociological environment of the 1970s, and could probably publish papers on what it's like to live through the decade, even though I haven't lived it myself (on particular, researchable aspects, not a blanket I-know-everything, of course).

So, what was it like to see Led Zep or Styx live? I know, but do you? What did you think of all Watergate all the time on TV and newspapers? When did you get your pair of click-clacks? That's right, you never did. Watching isn't the same as being. It's like seeing a picture of India and actually going to India--not even close to being the same thing.

To quote Robin William in Good Will Hunting:

So if I asked you about art, you'd probably give me the skinny on every art book ever written. Michelangelo, you know a lot about him. Life's work, political aspirations, him and the pope, sexual orientations, the whole works, right? But I'll bet you can't tell me what it smells like in the Sistine Chapel. You've never actually stood there and looked up at that beautiful ceiling; seen that.

There's tons of things I don't know about--never raised a kid, never held someone's hand as they died, never fought in a war. Some Dopers have and I bow to their experience in discussions because they know more than I.

But that matters not because I'm young? Age discrimination seems to be the most prevalent form of discrimination left in internet communication, and it pisses me off, because like all other forms of discrimination, it's completely baseless, ignorant, and harmful.

Oh, get over yourself. you are not being discriminated against. Try talking to someone in their 50s trying to land a job that you suffer from age discrimination and see what happens.


To be perfectly boorish about it, an ad hominem attack is an ad hominem attack even when there may be some substance to the attack. Frex, "It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand" is an ad hominem attack on white debaters, implying there are some elements of black culture white people can't grasp

Evil Captor, you misunderstand the nature of the ad hominem fallacy. The ad hominem attacks the character or circumstances of the person making the claim. So the "you're a kid" can certainly be an instance of ad hominem--for instance:
A: Bush is an incompetent president.
B: Ah, you're just a teenager, what do you know?

Clearly, that's fallacious ad hominem reasoning. The age of the speaker has no relevance to his political views. But let's try this:
A: Parents have life much easier than teens do--no homeowrk, no school, no worries.
B: Dude, you're just a kid, so you really don't know what being a parent is like.

Not really an ad hominem because the age and lack of experience are relevant to the discussion.


And any white person who claims to know what it's like to be black in America is a damned fool.

[dropzone]

Hi Aldebaran And how are you, this fine Monday? :DYou're his (may I presume Aldebaran is male?) stalker. You should know better than he (there I go again with those presumptions) how he is doing. ;)

[Rysler]

I hope to god I know enough about failed marriages not to become involved in one. Whether that means I divorce quickly, or don't get married at all, or break hearts by being distant, I am making decisions based on what I've learned, rather than diving in naively and screwing things up.

You're essentially making the argument that studying history or social theory is completely worthless, because it doesn't change our ability to lead our lives.

Oh, get over yourself. you are not being discriminated against. Try talking to someone in their 50s trying to land a job that you suffer from age discrimination and see what happens.

I was including them. Thanks for making the assumption that I wasn't, simply based on my demographics. I don't have to be 50 to understand that every day people are fired for being too old, sometimes for misguided social reasons (like believing "young and hip" writers will be able to write "young and hip" television), sometimes for financial reasons like cutting off a pension or health care costs.

And I don't know what it's like to be black in America, but I'd like to know, and I think it's worth trying to understand, even if I can only scratch the surface. How dare you tell me that I should be forced to live in ignorance because I have the wrong skin tone, or the wrong age, or the wrong sexuality.

[gobear]

How dare you tell me that I should be forced to live in ignorance because I have the wrong skin tone, or the wrong age, or the wrong sexuality.

Where did you get that from? Nobody said that you should you be "forced to live in ignorance" nor that you have the "the wrong skin tone, or the wrong age, or the wrong sexuality." You just to need to recognize that weven with the best will in the world, you;re going to hav elimits to your knowledge.

Let's say that you go to medical school and become a gynecologist. You might even become a renowned expert on women's health issues, but if you are male, you will never, ever know what having menstrual cramps feels like.

[Hamadryad]

You're essentially making the argument that studying history or social theory is completely worthless, because it doesn't change our ability to lead our lives. No, he's not. He's making the argument that reading all about France and learning French and eating only French food and living in a house designed by a French architect does not, in fact, make you French if you were born and raised in Duluth. You can attempt to recreate the experience as closely and authentically as possible, but you will still not know what it is like to live in France.

You can definitely learn a lot about France. You can know far more than even the average Frenchman knows about France. You can speak with a great deal of authority on matters French.

But you still won't know what it is like, physically and emotionally and mentally like, to actually live in France. So a person who is actually from Avignon, for instance, will be able to more accurately and completely discuss local Avignon gossip and politics, no matter HOW much you know about French political theories and candidates and political parties.

Wow, THAT was unnecessarily long-winded.

[dantheman]

Wow, THAT was unnecessarily long-winded.

Not to mention French! You infidel.

[Shodan]

Hear ye, hear ye, to wit:

I have it on the very best authority that Zoe’s recent trip to Paris was not the innocent foreign tour she would have us believe. Oh no, friends. There was much more to it than that.

One of Shodan’s spies followed our heroine through the slums of Paris and down the steps of many different cellars into dens of absinthe and iniquity. There, seated at scarred tables and slugging down water-glasses of that foul beverage, absinthe, amid clouds of hashish smoke so thick they could be cut with a knife, Zoe plotted the downfall of civilization as we know it.That wasn't a spy; it was me. And that was my living room, and I cleaned it for the occasion.

How the dickens did I get roped into this?

Regards,
Shodan

[John Carter of Mars]

That wasn't a spy; it was me. <snip>

How the dickens did I get roped into this?

Regards,
Shodan

You know very well how you got "roped in"! I've been sending you $100 per month to maintain your spy network, so we'll know what the Brotherhood of Bush BashersTM and other subversives are up to. If you'd advertize more, we could spread the cost around..... ;)

[Shodan]

You know very well how you got "roped in"! I've been sending you $100 per month to maintain your spy network, so we'll know what the Brotherhood of Bush BashersTM and other subversives are up to. If you'd advertize more, we could spread the cost around..... ;)
The first rule of the Brotherhood is that we don't talk about the Brotherhood.

Now your assignment is to go out and lose a political argument....

Regards,
Shodan

[gum]

Originally posted by dropzoneYou're his (may I presume Aldebaran is male?) stalker. You should know better than he (there I go again with those presumptions) how he is doing. :) Don't forget; me and Mehitabel! We take turns in stalking. Mehitabel stalks Alde during the day-time posts, I do the night-time ones. We're very busy with it. Work, social life, sleep, everything must yield to our stalking. We're exhausted.

That's why communications with our secret service operation sometimes fail. Ofcourse I know now how Aldebaran is doing. We're up to date again. :D

[Ogre]

I hope making stupid mistakes with my life is not a requirement for maturity.It most certainly is. In fact, it is one of the primary requirements.

[Evil Captor]

I hope making stupid mistakes with my life is not a requirement for maturity.


It most certainly is. In fact, it is one of the primary requirements.

I know that I matured a great deal after making stupid mistakes with Rysler's life. Sorry about that, Rysler, but it was REALLY helpful :D

[kidchameleon]

The first rule of the Brotherhood is that we don't talk about the Brotherhood.

Now your assignment is to go out and lose a political argument....

Regards,
Shodan


Can I join? Or am I too blond?

[Shodan]

Can I join? Or am I too blond?I can't answer you - I am too busy beating myself up.

Was that a weird movie, or what?

Regards,
Shodan