View Full Version : The Galactic Empire vs. The Federation
After SPOOFE's amazing debate of the Enterprise and the Star Destroyer, I've decided to post my own Star Trek vs. Star Wars debate. I definetly think the Empire would win, because I think 30,000 ISD's combined with Victory-Classes, Interdictors, Dreadnaughts, and other HUGE-ASS things, such as a Super Star Destroyer like the Eclipse. I don't know, though, the Federation seems to be more tactical, so give me your opinions!
C K Dexter Haven
05-31-2000, 07:56 AM
But the Galactic Empire (and its predecessor Trade Wossname in PHANTOM MENACE) has this tendency to put the central control panel for all of its forces in one, easily accessible, location... Drop a photon torpedo down the garbage chute, and the whole thing goes ka-boom. Or blow up the control panel, and all the droids stop.
Trivial for the Federation to knock it out.
By the way, anyone interested in STAR WARS (4 - 6) vs STAR WARS (1), here's a cute site: My Star Wars Can Beat Up Your Star Wars (http://www.folded.com/grumble/articles/fajitas/starwars.html)
Yeah, but if you noticed, they only had such easy access to those war machines when there were no shields! The first Death Star didn't even have shields, and the second Death Star's shields had to be destroyed before they could even enter the access hatches. (Also, they figured out not to put a garbage chute leading to the reactor core on the Death Star II).
05-31-2000, 12:31 PM
[Moderator Hat ON]
Off to IMHO. Yes, slythe, you are going to be moderating the Trekkies now!
[Moderator Hat OFF]
05-31-2000, 01:36 PM
That's Trekkers, not Trekkies! :p
05-31-2000, 05:02 PM
And regards who would win in a war between the United Federation of Planets and the Evil Galactic Empire:
Well, since we all know that any warp-capable starship with warp speed weapons can trounce a Star Destroyer each and every time :) , the Empire's only real advantages are:
They have 30,000 Star Destroyers, and it'll take some time for the Feds to mop that many ships; and
A Star Destroyer can cruise at 25,000 times the speed of light in hyperspace (c.f. Timothy Zahn's Dark Force Rising), whereas even the fastest Federation starship can only cruise at around 3000-4000 times the speed of light at warp 9.8.
So, if the Federation could station one warp-capable starship with a photon/quantum torpedo launcher in each and every inhabited system, they could just wait for each Imperial ships to drop out of hyperspace and do the circle-the-Star-Destroyer-at-warp-speed-while-lobbing-torpedoes-at-it bit. But, sadly, there are far more inhabited star systems in the Federation than there are starships. The Evil Galactic Empire could find out which systems are undefended, then hyperspace into those systems, pound them to dust with their turbolasers, and hyperdrive back out again before any Federation ships could arrive.
Ultimately, if the Feds have 70 starships, all but 70 of their systems would be destroyed by the Empire. But those last 70 systems would be invincible against attack from a single Star Destroyer. If the Empire wanted to, say, eradicate the Earth, they'd have to send so many of their Star Destroyers into the Sol system that Star Fleet couldn't destroy the Star Destroyers fast enough to keep them from pounding Earth into rubble. ... Which, if the Empire starts out with 30,000 Star Destroyers, shouldn't be that difficult.
Final outcome: Evil Galactic Empire 1, United Federation of Planets 0.
05-31-2000, 05:44 PM
I have to go with the Empire. Why? Simple: the Federation relies on the Officially Approved Picard Battle Procedure (tm). It goes like this:
Let enemy blast you 5-6 times
Open hailing frequencies
Wait for Worf to tell you there was no response
Let the enemy blast you 5-6 times
Ask for damage report
Repeat from step 3 until battle is over
It is clear that the Empire with its kick ass first, ask questions later approach has the advantage in battle.
Also, while the Federation is waiting for the lawyers to approve the potential violations of the Prime Directive that will occur in a galactic war, the Empire will have demolished the fleet. QED.
05-31-2000, 06:14 PM
(Also, they figured out not to put a garbage chute leading to the reactor core on the Death Star II).
I'm not so sure... wasn't there one leading directly from the throne room to the reactor? Let's face it, the Empire is just dangerously fond of deep pits. And so few of them have railings... the Emperor must have abolished OSHA at the same time he dissolved the Imperial Senate.
05-31-2000, 07:16 PM
It is so obvious that the Federation would win against those of the Evil Empire of SW.
One way we can see this is that the SW folks have to rely on insulting Captain Picard and what they claim to be his way of handling battles.
The Enterprise is the Flag ship of a peaceful Federation. Would you have someone who is always going around destroying everyone as the Captain of such a ship?
When he needs to fight he does.
On the statement of breaking the Prime Directive. That does not apply when someone has attacked you unless, they can do absolutely no damage to you. Now if you are conceeding with this that the guys in SW are so weak that they pose absolutely no threat to the Federation and that retaliating after being attacked by the Empire would be a violation of the Prime Directive, then on behalf of the Federation I will accept your surrender. If OTOH, you are saying that this would be a battle that the Empire might could win, then Picard would kick their butts.
05-31-2000, 07:59 PM
But StrTrkr777, the Federation's starship's can't be everywhere at once! If what ig88 said is true, the Empire has over 100 times as many FTL-capable ships at its disposal than the Federation does. True, every Star Destroyer that took on a Star Fleet ship would get turned into mincemeat, but you don't have to attack the Federation's ships to wipe out the Federation!
And considering that an ISD can travel several times faster in hyperspace than a Star Fleet vessel can travel at warp, if the Empire wants to steer around Star Fleet and attack Federation planets unopposed, it will.
If we're going to have this discussion can we just have a standard agreement that weaponry and technologies are roughly equivalent and not get caught up in a pedantic (and all-too-often overly parochial) dispute where no-one gives ground?
06-01-2000, 01:10 AM
I feel like this thread is the illegitimate child of my beloved thread... but, hey, it should be fun.
I think I posted in the EvISD thread that the Galactic Empire had built 25,000 ISD's... ISD-I's, mind you. They also had a good number (but not nearly 25,000) ISD-II's, which basically had stronger weapons and stronger shields.
ANYway, as with any "Fictional Thing" vs. "Other Fictional Thing" debate, there has to be a setting... the big problem right now, ignoring time factors, is distance (which is why I always argue "ship vs. ship" instead of "galaxy vs. galaxy"). I suppose we can assume that Q (or something) opens big spatial portals that provide connections between the Federation and the Empire, just so we don't have to worry about "how the heck are they going to fight each other?" And we also have to assume that this would be a long, drawn-out battle, so in addition to space battles, we'd have troops pitted against each other, espionage, propaganda on either side, etc.
We also need to set a definite time setting for each side. In my opinion, we should assume that each side enters the conflict at its highest state of preparation for war... that is, before the Empire fell to the rebels... but what about the Fed? With the Voyager series, we don't have a good idea with what's been happening with the Federation lately, and at the end of DS9 they had just finished a big war that surely taxed their resources. So-o-o-o... perhaps we throw the Federation into the fight at the time just before Generations? That, at least, would still have the Enterprise in the fight.
Second, I think we need to lay down some details about these ships... to begin with, most of the Empire's ships, in general, are larger and have a higher number of guns than their Federation counterparts. The Federation's weaponry, however, has much better range for their weaponry. And, finally, what I consider to be the biggest nail in the Fed's coffin... they have very, very few warships (Fed warships weren't introduced until halfway through DS9, with the Defiant, I believe). All the other ships are designed for diplomacy missions, science, exploration, etc. After all, the Federation ain't a very warlike state, and they see no need for ships specifically designed for battle. Not to say they're weak or anything, of course.
All right, other advantages/disadvantages... in my opinion, the Empire would have better espionage/spying abilities (probe droids, anyone? The Fed's haven't ever seen anything like those). This, in my mind, would help in levelin the playing field, as it's possible that the Imp's would be able to steal some ST technology (maybe make a deal with the Romulans or Cardassians? THAT'D be intriguing). But I don't think that should be factored in... we should assume a "purity of technology" on each side just so we don't have to deal with the confusion of a Star Destroyer going to warp or something like that.
Anyway, that's my bit... not really anything offered, but at least the context of this whole fictional war isn't described as loosely. Sorry... I like to have things like this outlined cleanly. If anyone wants to change anything, go right ahead... it ain't my thread.
Yeah, sorry guys, here's another thing I forgot to mention, ground control.
Ground control: As far as I know, the Feds only have their marines and the red-shirts (we all know how they work out, put it on and your gone). The Empire has the definite advantage here: AT-AT's, AT-ST's, AT-PT's, MT-AT's, and TIE tanks, not to mention hundreds of thousands of Dark Trooper garrisons. Plus the fact that each SD holds at least 20 AT-ATs, 30 AT-STs, and 9700 ground troops. Combined with the 25000-35000 SDs that are in the Imperial Navy. That makes anywhere from 242,500,000-339,500,000 ground troops alone!
In space: I'm assuming by the time period SPOOFE stated, that the Empire still has the Death Star (or at least the Death Star II) here. If you're going to argue about the chute-to-the-reactor-with-a-photon-torpedo, don't. There was already an arguement on SD vs. Enterprise about how long it would take to scan the SD, and the DS would take hella-lot longer! I don't think they'd be able to find the weak spot anytime soon. The DS could go around blasting planets, possibly taking out some Galaxy-class cruisers with the resulting explosion and go on to the next plante before the cruisers could put a dent in the dang thing.
If you want to argue, go ahead, that's why this is a debate, but I've given my two cents. Thank you! I think I'll go see Gladiator now.
06-03-2000, 04:41 PM
How lame is this question? And how dated?
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