What's the next 'sin behavior' to be legalized to bring in tax revenue.

[Jonathan Chance]

So Sam brings up cigarette taxes here... (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5056196#post5056196)

And that gets me to thinking...

Alcohol taxes are a significant source of income. At one point prohibition attempted to ban it.

Cigarettes, while never being banned (that I know of) are another 'sin' tax that brings in the big bucks.

Gambling, at one time limited to back rooms, race tracks, Vegas and New Jersey has fallen into the 'bring in the tax revenue' ledger line with gambling becoming legal in many circumstances (riverboats, Native American Casinos, slots at race tracks, etc) and can bring in big bux.

So what's next? In the ever-present need to bring in more revenue to provide services that the public doesn't want to pay taxes towards (at least not directly) what 'sin' becomes next on the 'acceptable if it's taxed' list?

Prostitution?

Drugs?

What?

[Sage Rat]

So what's next? In the ever-present need to bring in more revenue to provide services that the public doesn't want to pay taxes towards (at least not directly) what 'sin' becomes next on the 'acceptable if it's taxed' list?

Prostitution?

Drugs?

What?

Personal bet would be fast food. McD's, Taco Bell, etc. Obesity has been getting a lot of press.

[clairobscur]

[URL=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5056196#post5056196]

So what's next? In the ever-present need to bring in more revenue to provide services that the public doesn't want to pay taxes towards (at least not directly) what 'sin' becomes next on the 'acceptable if it's taxed' list?

Prostitution?



Prostitution incomes are taxed in many countries (including France). Isn't it taxed too in the USA, at least in states where prostitution is legal?

[Jonathan Chance]

I feel certain it is.

But at present it's only legal in some counties in one state. Otherwise prostitution is illegal across the country.

[aruvqan]

I vote prostitution.

Guys are going to pay for sex, and women [and some men] will always perform sex for money, might as well regulate and tax it. If a number of countries can demonstrate that it helsp to keep the STD incedents down, and provide some tax money, why not?

Anybody have any stats on Nevada and sex workers?

Not now, but there was a time when I would have considered working in a well run legal brothel, I was single, wanted a change of job and had a good body. I would have seriously considered it ... would never consider it as it is currently!

[Johnny Bravo]

Prostituition is too sinful. I can't imagine it would be wide-spread legalized here before pot.

[Jonathan Chance]

So are we agreed that it comes down to prostitution or the lighter drugs?

I admit for a fondness (in many ways) for the fast food solution. Imagine that a 24 pack of Coke had $15 worth of tax on top! Wah!

I'm thinking it would happen something like this:

One state considers it, enacts it, and then begins reaping the revenue.

Other states, feeling cash strapped, begin to copy.

One or two hold out for moral (and re-election) reasons.

I'm favoring prostitution because A) it's already legal in Europe and there is, therefore, case studies for tax revenues and B) it's already legal in one state.

[RTFirefly]

I'm favoring prostitution because A) it's already legal in Europe and there is, therefore, case studies for tax revenues and B) it's already legal in one state.It's already legal in one state, but I don't see any state stepping up to be the second, in the foreseeable future. It won't fly in the red states and battleground states on account of the Christian Right, and the solidly blue states aren't quite as taken with the 'no new taxes' mantra.

[Cluricaun]

I can see it now. A car slowly cruses past a line of working girls, finally coming to a stop next to one of them. She approaches the car and after some quick conversation, smiles vacantly at the customer and says "That will be $53.25 sugar....."

[RTFirefly]

I also don't see a fast-food or fattening-food tax coming on. It's not that it's a bad idea in theory, it's just that I can't see how you'd implement it. Kinda like pornography, we know it when we see it, but how would you legally distinguish fast food from any other kind of restaurant? And on what basis would you slap a tax on soda pop but not on other high-carb, low-nutrition beverages? We're getting into murky territory here.

[Mr2001]

And on what basis would you slap a tax on soda pop but not on other high-carb, low-nutrition beverages? We're getting into murky territory here.
Indeed. Orange juice is comparable to soda + vitamin C tablets in terms of nutrition, so it'd have to be taxed too.

Suppose we go with Jonathan Chance's $15 tax on a 24 pack of Coke, and suppose it's a fixed tax per unit volume. That's about 5 cents per fluid ounce. A large can of frozen OJ makes 64 ounces of juice, so that can would cost close to $5 instead of $1.50. (A percentage tax would work out about the same.)

[BrainGlutton]

Actually, when you mention prostitution, drugs and gambling, you've just about exhausted the list of "sin behaviors" that might be legalized to bing in tax revenue. (Fast food has been mentioned -- but that's already legal.) There are other "sin behaviors" that, even if they were legalized, could not be taxed, because they don't necessarily involve money changing hands. How do you get any tax revenue out of statutory rape? (A "sin behavior" about which we've had several GD threads recently.)

[furt]

And on what basis would you slap a tax on soda pop but not on other high-carb, low-nutrition beverages?How much campaign money can the soda people come up with?

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Tax tattooing and body piercing?

Cosmetic breast and testicle implants?

Gourmet dog food?

Anything out of a Sharper Image catalog?

Lots of things to still consider taxing the hell out of! :D

[furt]

Actually, when you mention prostitution, drugs and gambling, you've just about exhausted the list of "sin behaviors" ... Not even close ... ;)

[stpauler]

Gambling (gaming) seems to be on the way already.

Pennsylvania getting bumper crop of slot machines (http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/4861299.html) (free subscription may be needed)

BENSALEM, Pa. -- Gov. Ed Rendell signed laws on Monday authorizing 61,000 slot machines in Pennsylvania - more than any other state except Nevada - and using most of the state's share to pay for a $1 billion cut in property taxes a year.

Revenue from the slot machines, which would be located at 14 sites, including seven horse tracks, would be used to cut property taxes by an average 20 percent.

Rendell, a Democrat who had made slots-for-tax-relief the centerpiece of his 2002 election campaign, signed the bills at Philadelphia Park, the thoroughbred track that produced Kentucky Derby-winner Smarty Jones.

``It isn't a panacea, but it certainly isn't the demon it's been made out to be,'' Rendell said. ``It's a good, significant step on the road to property-tax relief.''



Since gambling is more prevalent in America's society (be it Native American casinos or state run lotteries or "illegal" home run poker games) it's definitely more accepted than drugs/prostitution and all the rest of the consensual crimes.

[Sage Rat]

I also don't see a fast-food or fattening-food tax coming on. It's not that it's a bad idea in theory, it's just that I can't see how you'd implement it. Kinda like pornography, we know it when we see it, but how would you legally distinguish fast food from any other kind of restaurant? And on what basis would you slap a tax on soda pop but not on other high-carb, low-nutrition beverages? We're getting into murky territory here.

Good point....

For drinks you could do it based on the sugar to over-all volume rating or such.

For fast food, you could base it on the relationship between total number of servings, per how much money. That is, if you can buy a meal for a family of four (minus tax) for $3.00 then tax the heck out of it, while as if it's going to cost $20 for a single person, no tax.

...perhaps?

[Amp]

Masturbation. I mean come on, everyone does it no matter what they say. The government could charge people ten cents a whack. Hell, I'd have to pony up five dollars this month so far. Multiply that by millions of people and we could pay off the deficit in under a year. All we need is a way of monitoring people.

(And yes, I know masturbation is not a sin.)

[SanibelMan]

Whoa, whoa. When you say "ten cents a whack," do you mean per, uh, "session" or per stroke? 'Cause I'm not as young as I used to be and you might be putting it out of my price range. :p

[Misnomer]

Legalize prostitution, start taxing it, and at the same time implement a special 'condom tax' (which will be labeled the 'sex tax' by the press). Throw in legalized marijuana, and *poof*...no more revenue problems. :D

[Ike Witt]

Cosmetic testicle implants?

Seriously? These exist other than for dogs?

[Ethilrist]

Well, let's examine the classics:

pride--you could charge for those "My kid was an honor student" bumper stickers
greed--more luxury taxes (ironic, that...)
envy--higher taxes on wannabe products--off brands, "Onega" watches, etc. Also, put "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" on pay-per-view...
anger--higher fines for hate crimes and crimes of violence
lust--the aforementioned prostitution tax, once we legalize it
gluttony--higher taxes on junk food
sloth--people who don't exercise are already paying this--higher insurance rates

[Iridium]

Getting really cynical, you can apply a sin tax to anything the majority finds distasteful (in a moral sense or otherwise) and is not practiced by a rich or elite minority. The problem with taxing plastic surgery is that it's not something pursued by low-income/low-influence groups, which are more easily exploited.

Many populations would not be ready to legitimize prostitution by applying a sin tax to it. However, if you've got a region with morally conservative types and can produce data showing increased crime around strip clubs/porno theatres/porno video stores, you might be able to get away with sin taxing those establishments. Reasoning would be along the lines of "revenue going into fighting crime in those areas and setting up awareness programs to help young people make better choices". Obviously, the argument is shaky when you think about it, but governments bank on people not really thinking about it.

Sin taxing fast food would be tough, because it doesn't specifically "target" overweight people. You'd need to be more creative to isolate that group, but they're definitely ostracized enough to be a candidate (especially if you could "show" that overweight people are a burden on society/healthcare).

I don't know how things are set up in the US, but governments can easily corner the sin market by permitting only state-run casinos and liquor stores, under the "socially sensitive industries should be socially accountable" premise.

[PeeQueue]

You know, it occurs to me that a parallel between organized crime and government can be made here. The government already "runs numbers" via lotteries. They are slowly making sure they get their cut on all the other "sinful" activities.

So, maybe we could look to organized crime to get our hints. Gun running - I can see the government putting super high taxes on guns. Certainly someone is bound to get this idea someday and realize it is a true money maker.

The food idea I think would be out. There are too many people that would be upset if so-called luxury food was taxed. However, many states have no sales tax on food. I could see them repealing the no sales tax rule for certain foods, which would in effect be a new tax.

[Dragwyr]

If prostitution were taxed, it certainly would make chartered accountancy a much more interesting job.

:D

[zamboniracer]

How about a "lap dance tax"? (Say that 10 times real fast.) Leaving aside the auditing problem of taxing the income of cash-basis dancers, the state can tax the strip-club on the admission fee that people pay at the door and can make the dancers pay a hefty fee for annual licenses. I'd like to be at the tax office when the girls come in to pay their annual fees in single dollar bills.

[Mr2001]

If prostitution were taxed, it certainly would make chartered accountancy a much more interesting job.
Oh, it's already fun to charter an accountant... and sail the wide accountan-cy... to find, explore, the funds upshore, and skirt the shoals of bankruptcy...

[TJdude825]

Paraphrased from Bowling for Columbine:

What we need isn't a gun tax. Guns don't kill people, bullets do. I think we just need to make bullets cost about $5000, that way nobody would ever kill anyone unless they really REALLY wanted to. I can hear it now: "Man, I would just fill your skull full of lead, if only I could afford it!"

[PeeQueue]

Except then no one would be able to afford to practice, so there would be random bullets flying all over the place if there was a shootout. ;)

[Sublight]

Irony would dictate that we start charging people to use the "Free Speech Zones" at political events.

[PussyCow]

(And yes, I know masturbation is not a sin.)

It's not? Well whew. At least I'm one level higher in th rings of hell.

[Cisco]

(And yes, I know masturbation is not a sin.)


:

8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him



Paraphrased from Bowling for Columbine:

What we need isn't a gun tax. Guns don't kill people, bullets do. I think we just need to make bullets cost about $5000, that way nobody would ever kill anyone unless they really REALLY wanted to. I can hear it now: "Man, I would just fill your skull full of lead, if only I could afford it!"

That's an old Chris Rock bit. Are you sure it was on BFC? (I don't remember)

[stpauler]

That's an old Chris Rock bit. Are you sure it was on BFC? (I don't remember)
Yup, they used the Chris Rock clip in BFC somewhere in the first 20 minutes or so...

[SpectBrain]

A "speed tax"

It would work like this: Consider my state (SC) as an example. At the state line on I-95 there would be a special booth set up where a speed pass could be purchased. This pass would authorize you to go as fast as you like and shield you from getting cited for speeding. There could even be progressive levels e.g. $80.00 would allow you to travel up to 85 MPH, $160.00 up to 110 MPH etc. If caught speeding without a pass the fine could be equal to some multiple of the fee.

[PussyCow]

A "speed tax"

It would work like this: Consider my state (SC) as an example. At the state line on I-95 there would be a special booth set up where a speed pass could be purchased. This pass would authorize you to go as fast as you like and shield you from getting cited for speeding. There could even be progressive levels e.g. $80.00 would allow you to travel up to 85 MPH, $160.00 up to 110 MPH etc. If caught speeding without a pass the fine could be equal to some multiple of the fee.
I don't think they would ever do that. That would be legitimizing a dangerous activity - something dangerous to others moreover. People would freak.

[monstro]

Why not tax cars that get poor gas mileage?

[PussyCow]

Why not tax cars that get poor gas mileage?
They're kinda doing that already with the taxes on gasoline. But I see your point and it's a good one.
In some states (I'm pretty sure NJ is one of them), the fee on your registration increases for the size of your vehicle. It is my understanding it is a sort-of fee for how much your car will be ripping up the road compared to others. However, they don't do that in all states. So that could be a nice, new tax, for some anyway.

[Pyrrhonist]

Some folk might not agree on what is or is not a sin to tax, but the idea seems to tax some sort of services or goods that led to indolent or superfluous activity, and I’d like to purpose a tax on the Idiot Box.

Tax all televisions in the United States, say $75 to $100 per year, and perhaps make it progressive so wall sized units cost more. I don’t know how many TVs are in the country, but I’m sure it could be worth $6 to 10 Billion per year, maybe more.

It would be a mighty deep source of tax revenue if the Government could pass it through legislation and enforce collection.

In addition to the TV tax, tax all movie tickets and DVD/VCR rentals at a $1 per pop.

No tax proposed in this thread so far would even comes close to the potential revenue of a TV and movie ticket tax.

[Andros_X]

Getting really cynical, you can apply a sin tax to anything the majority finds distasteful (in a moral sense or otherwise) and is not practiced by a rich or elite minority.

(snip)

I don't know how things are set up in the US, but governments can easily corner the sin market by permitting only state-run casinos and liquor stores, under the "socially sensitive industries should be socially accountable" premise.

I agree. And that's why I think a marijuana tax is more likely. It's a potentially bigger moneymaker (if for no other reason that marijuana can grow faster than prostitutes) and it affects a small subset, none of whom are in power.

While there are no such things as state-run casinos in the US (yet), some states do have state-run liquor stores. Virginia, for example, restricts who can sell hard liquor to their Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control, who usually has one or two stores in every city.

Pyrrhonist: While your idea has merit, it'll never fly. Big Media would scream, and so would the consumers (prodded by Big Media, of course). Besides, it would stifle the media market somewhat, forcing networks to commercialize even more and produce crappier programming. Personally, however, I'd pay a TV tax if I got something like the BBC out of it.

[SpectBrain]

PCow said I don't think they would ever do that. That would be legitimizing a dangerous activity - something dangerous to others moreover. People would freak.

My point is that many many folks commit the "sin" of flying down the interstate well in excess of the legal speed limit. Some revenue is already generated from speeding citations. Why not make more by treating the highway as a pay as you go autobahn?

[PussyCow]

My point is that many many folks commit the "sin" of flying down the interstate well in excess of the legal speed limit. Some revenue is already generated from speeding citations. Why not make more by treating the highway as a pay as you go autobahn?
Hmm. Let me try again.

The ticket you get is punishment for breaking a law. The law is there "ideally" (I have some other theories as to why the law is really there, but that's for another thread) to protect people from danger - the danger being that the faster you go, the more accidents and the more people die, statistically.

So if the police/government gave you a preemptory "pass" allowing you to speed, they would be condoning you doing something that would be harmful to other people. That would not be good. People that do not want to speed would make quite a fuss about the government letting them be put in harm's way.

An (horrible) analogy would be if you could pay a fee and then be allowed to murder someone.

I think that across the board "sin taxes" are placed on things that will cause harm only to yourself (or your soul).

Did I make myself clearer?

[Pyrrhonist]

Big Media would scream, and so would the consumers (prodded by Big Media, of course). Besides, it would stifle the media market somewhat, forcing networks to commercialize even more and produce crappier programming. Personally, however, I'd pay a TV tax if I got something like the BBC out of it.

I originally had a comment about the howls of execration from taxing the Idiot Box, but I thought it sounded too flippant. “No, no, no. Don’t tax our MTV!”

I’m not so sure how taxing the Idiot Box would stifle Big Media and cause providers into producing crappier programming—if such could even be possible. The average TV viewer will still the pay cost to get their fix. Very few folks would kick the TV habit because a hundred or two hundred bucks per year in taxes. Sure, a few might, but only a handful.

Still, it would be hard sell. Most folk would like to see taxes on things other folk use—tax the other fellow’s sin, not my sin. Since most folk watch TV, agreeing to the TV tax would increasing your own taxes, so that would be a no go.

I know that Great Britain had a TV tax at one time, and maybe they still do, so it would be interesting to find out the they maintain compliance, and how popular/unpopular the tax is.

[Bongmaster]

Its got to be gambling. There are way, way too many career law enforcement types who have a vested interest in keeping pot illegal. Prostitution will always be seen as dirty, sinful, and horribly destructive to the many conservative religious types that inhabit the country, moreso than the other options I think. So yeah, gambling will be the big sin tax to collect on. You even hear stores in the news a lot lately. They want to add slots to the PA racetrack and to a boat that cruises the Deleware river in my area. So far nobody is seriously talking about legalizing pot. Damn it.

[DrDeth]

Have we actually done this? "Whats the next sin behaviour to be legalized to bring in tax revenue?" Other than maybe booze? I know we have taxed plenty of minor sins, but have we ever legalized a sin in order to tax it?

I think the answer is "none".

[Mr2001]

Hmm. Let me try again.

The ticket you get is punishment for breaking a law. The law is there "ideally" (I have some other theories as to why the law is really there, but that's for another thread) to protect people from danger
I think those theories are relevant to this thread, if they are what I think they are.

Mainly: In many cases, the primary function of speed limits is to raise money for the city or county that enforces them. We've all heard of speed traps. In those cases, the local government has an incentive to make the speed limits unreasonably low, to hide the signs behind trees, etc. because they rely on people breaking the law for revenue.

A "speed pass" would achieve the same thing for the local governments, but it'd do it honestly, instead of relying on people to break the law.

That said, I think it would only make sense on highways. Speed limits on city streets are reasonable and necessary, IME.

[Mr2001]

I know that Great Britain had a TV tax at one time, and maybe they still do, so it would be interesting to find out the they maintain compliance, and how popular/unpopular the tax is.
They still do (http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/licencefee/). But there's a big difference - their TV license fees pay for the BBC. That's like getting ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN, and CSPAN (plus a couple other TV channels and several radio stations) for free with no commercials.

[BrainGlutton]

How do they enforce this TV license? Assuming there's no cable hookup, how do they know which homes have TVs and which don't?

[Mr2001]

Here's a thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=188648) with info and links about the TV license.

[ralph124c]

Congress voted this idiocy in a few years ago..it applied to things like yachts and men's suits (of over $200.00 value). I forget what the rate was, but it caused the sale of these items to plummet! Congress repealed the tax, but not untill it had put many people out of business!
I vote for:
-a TAX on politician's incomes..rising to a top rate of 78%!
-a TAX on all lobbying expenditures..at a rate of 75%
-a TAX on all propertiesin the city of Washington, DC , which are used for lobbying organizations (like the ACLU, AIPAC, NRA, etc.) This tax would be in addition to the city taxes
-a hotel tax in the city of Washington, on ALL rooms (tourists would be exempted). This tax would be 25% when Congress is off, rising to 75% when Congress is in session.
-a surtax on all lawyers, amounting to 75% on all earnedincome over $100,000
Yeah, I'm FOR social engineering! :D

[Bongmaster]

Congress voted this idiocy in a few years ago..it applied to things like yachts and men's suits (of over $200.00 value). I forget what the rate was, but it caused the sale of these items to plummet! Congress repealed the tax, but not untill it had put many people out of business!
I vote for:
-a TAX on politician's incomes..rising to a top rate of 78%!
-a TAX on all lobbying expenditures..at a rate of 75%
-a TAX on all propertiesin the city of Washington, DC , which are used for lobbying organizations (like the ACLU, AIPAC, NRA, etc.) This tax would be in addition to the city taxes
-a hotel tax in the city of Washington, on ALL rooms (tourists would be exempted). This tax would be 25% when Congress is off, rising to 75% when Congress is in session.
-a surtax on all lawyers, amounting to 75% on all earnedincome over $100,000
Yeah, I'm FOR social engineering! :D

Well I'll be damned, this is the best idea I have ever heard.