Why do freemasons have rituals? [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

Polerius

07-16-2004, 02:58 PM

In a recent thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5073777#post5073777), I read the following

We attended my father-in-law's funeral in Minnesota. It was Masonic, and we saw all the rituals and whatnot.

Masons claim that freemasonry is not a religion. Which other secular club has its own funeral rituals?

It seems freemasons claim to be something of a social club and/or charity, but they have all sorts of rituals. Why would grown men want to go through these rituals, if it was simply a social club or charity?

I don't think becoming a volunteer for Goodwill requires you to go through rituals, why do the freemasons?

I know, there are gazilions of prior threads on freemasons on the SDMB, but I went through several of them and didn't see the answer to this question.

tomndebb

07-16-2004, 03:11 PM

Polerius

07-16-2004, 03:25 PM

All human societies have rituals. Rituals are a non-verbal way to re-assert the bonds within the society (and, occasionally, a way to tap into the mythology* on which the society is built).
Of course it all depends on your definition of 'ritual'.

Having people recite the national anthem at baseball games can be considered a 'ritual', but that is a very different ritual than one in which 30 men gather in a dark room with one of them naked in the center chanting to some obscure deity*

I would classify the former a 'sociological ritual', and the latter as 'cult ritual'. Most people do not take part in 'cult rituals' unless there is a religious reason.

I don't know much about masons, but from what I know, their rituals are closer to the 'cult ritual' than to 'sociological rituals'. Correct me if I am wrong here.

The question is why?

*BTW, I am not claiming that masons do this, I'm just trying to give an example of what I would call a 'cult ritual'

stpauler

07-16-2004, 03:30 PM

Sororities and Fraternities still have initiation rituals that are used to bond their members closer together. (I've got a friend that went through a pretty bad initiation ritual at his college. Floggings, starvation, yadda yadda. When the next class came in, he did the same thing to them. "Why?" I asked. He said that it was because he had to go through all of that himself. If he didn't put them through it, what right did they have to belong to their society.)

I remember bow-hunting with my friends and our fathers and when one killed their first deer, the tradition (or ritual) was to drink the warm blood. It was explained to me by my friend's father that this was the way to become one with the deer and nature.

Even non-religious people having a marriage ceremony in their backyard by a JP could be construed as superfluous but it does make the bond for some tighter. (I'm citing my parents on that one)

Johnny Bravo

07-16-2004, 03:36 PM

Which other secular club has its own funeral rituals?

Well, the military has funeral rituals. Not a club, sure, but certainly secular.

Zagadka

07-16-2004, 03:41 PM

Sororities and Fraternities still have initiation rituals that are used to bond their members closer together.
We have more than initiation ritual, chico/a.

Ritual has very valid purposes. It focuses your mind and has a lot to do with heirarchy. I can't speak too much about my fraternity's ritual, or the BSA's Order of the Arrow ritual, but they have a lot to do with being part of a "brotherhood" (or sisterhood, as the case may be) - being bound by the secrets and ritual you share. If I see any other Theta Xi, I have an immediate bond with him.

And besides that, it is just plain... well, not "fun"... sobering. Worthwhile.

(I've got a friend that went through a pretty bad initiation ritual at his college. Floggings, starvation, yadda yadda.
That isn't "ritual". That is "hazing". There is a distinct difference. Don't confuse the two.

Zakalwe

07-16-2004, 03:52 PM

It seems freemasons claim to be something of a social club and/or charity, but they have all sorts of rituals. Why would grown men want to go through these rituals, if it was simply a social club or charity?
Well, part of the problem may be that we don't claim this (or at least none I know claim this). Masonry is a fraternal organization symbolically based on the tradition of the men who built of King Solomon's Temple. Most fraternal organizations have rituals. Part of the reason is to provide a consistent experience and explanation to all members. Another part is to establish the bond of common experience. A final part (at least for me) is that done properly, it's fun. It's also beautiful - there's some amazing prose contained in the Masonic ritual.

stpauler

07-16-2004, 04:01 PM

That isn't "ritual". That is "hazing". There is a distinct difference. Don't confuse the two.
So what is the difference that you're claiming as distinct? The corporal punishment that's included with it? I'd say that the "hazing" you're claiming is indeed hazing, but it was also part of the ritual especially since it was done by his class, the class before him, the class before them, and on, and on. It doesn't justify these actions, but I'd say it would be dishonest to say that it isn't ritualistic either.

Captain Amazing

07-16-2004, 04:02 PM

That isn't "ritual". That is "hazing". There is a distinct difference. Don't confuse the two.

Hazing is a kind of ritual.

RickJay

07-16-2004, 04:08 PM

We have more than initiation ritual, chico/a.

Ritual has very valid purposes. It focuses your mind and has a lot to do with heirarchy. I can't speak too much about my fraternity's ritual, or the BSA's Order of the Arrow ritual, but they have a lot to do with being part of a "brotherhood" (or sisterhood, as the case may be) - being bound by the secrets and ritual you share. If I see any other Theta Xi, I have an immediate bond with him.
I don't mean to sound insulting or flippant, because this is an honest question: do you actually take that fraternity stuff as seriously as you make it sound here? I mean... an "immediate bond"? Bonded by what? Michelob?

Zagadka

07-16-2004, 04:09 PM

So what is the difference that you're claiming as distinct? The corporal punishment that's included with it? I'd say that the "hazing" you're claiming is indeed hazing, but it was also part of the ritual especially since it was done by his class, the class before him, the class before them, and on, and on. It doesn't justify these actions, but I'd say it would be dishonest to say that it isn't ritualistic either.

*sigh* Fine.

First, lets define "ritual"

rit·u·al ( P ) (rch-l)
n.

1.
1. The prescribed order of a religious ceremony.
2. The body of ceremonies or rites used in a place of worship.
2.
1. The prescribed form of conducting a formal secular ceremony: the ritual of an inauguration.
2. The body of ceremonies used by a fraternal organization.
3. A book of rites or ceremonial forms.

1) Ritual is a written down, pre-determined, scripted *ceremony*

2) Hazing is a bunch of drunk asshats paddling each other. It is not scripted. It is not a ceremony.

3) Every national fraternity has condemned hazing and specifically excluded it from their ritual.

Zagadka

07-16-2004, 04:12 PM

I don't mean to sound insulting or flippant, because this is an honest question: do you actually take that fraternity stuff as seriously as you make it sound here? I mean... an "immediate bond"? Bonded by what?
I'd tell you, but I'd have to kill you.

Not that you'd understand in the short, painful period of time between the explanation and sweet death settling upon you.

And yes, our house takes our ritual very seriously.

Michelob?
Cute, for "not trying to sound insulting."

stpauler

07-16-2004, 04:21 PM

*sigh* Fine.

First, lets define "ritual"

rit·u·al ( P ) (rch-l)
n.

1.
1. The prescribed order of a religious ceremony.
2. The body of ceremonies or rites used in a place of worship.
2.
1. The prescribed form of conducting a formal secular ceremony: the ritual of an inauguration.
2. The body of ceremonies used by a fraternal organization.
3. A book of rites or ceremonial forms.

1) Ritual is a written down, pre-determined, scripted *ceremony*

2) Hazing is a bunch of drunk asshats paddling each other. It is not scripted. It is not a ceremony.

3) Every national fraternity has condemned hazing and specifically excluded it from their ritual.

Wow, one might think you came up with that definition yourself since you didn't cite dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ritual) where you extracted your favorite parts of the definition. Exclusive of one part of the definition which fits mine nicely from dictionary.com:
A state or condition characterized by the presence of established procedure or routine: “Prison was a ritual reenacted daily, year in, year out. Prisoners came and went; generations came and went; and yet the ritual endured” (William H. Hallahan).
Established procedure? Yup, they flogged the initiates every year. Whether it was hazing on top of what they were doing is irrelevant.

Zagadka

07-16-2004, 04:27 PM

Wow, one might think you came up with that definition yourself since you didn't cite dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ritual) where you extracted your favorite parts of the definition. Exclusive of one part of the definition which fits mine nicely from dictionary.com:

Established procedure? Yup, they flogged the initiates every year. Whether it was hazing on top of what they were doing is irrelevant.
Oh, please. You know damn well that isn't the definition of "ritual" we are working with.

Have fun with your ritual brushing of the teeth and ritual eating. :rolleyes:

Jackmannii

07-16-2004, 04:34 PM

Once we've fully exposed the Masons, can someone explain why Shriners wear funny hats?

stpauler

07-16-2004, 04:54 PM

Oh, please. You know damn well that isn't the definition of "ritual" we are working with.

Have fun with your ritual brushing of the teeth and ritual eating. :rolleyes:
You're the one trying to cleave a difference between hazing and rituals by implying this gulf between the two.

Your definition of rituals aren't applicable for a lot of things.

1) Ritual is a written down, pre-determined, scripted *ceremony*
Really? So an illiterate tribe 10,000 years ago performed no rituals?
2) Hazing is a bunch of drunk asshats paddling each other. It is not scripted.
No argument there.
It is not a ceremony.
It's not a ceremony in and of itself. It is/was part of a ceremony.

3) Every national fraternity has condemned hazing and specifically excluded it from their ritual.
They specifially excluded it from their ritual? A statement like that would assume that it was PART of their ritual before then, right?

Of course, there are still sororities that have rituals that include hazing. (http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/metro/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1086418552181490.xml) Sorority hazing penalties reduced
Loyola move comes in wake of lawsuit ....
Four female students facing expulsion from Loyola University over hazing and other violations at their off-campus sorority will be allowed to remain at the school, and suspensions and other punishments for 13 other sorority members have been downgraded.
.....
Among charges made against Tri Phi members were that they forced pledges to drink large amounts of alcohol and engage in humiliating acts, and that they were warned to never try to leave the group.
.....
Smith said his clients are pleased that administrators reduced the punishments, but he said "we still don't believe that these girls should have been found to have violated any of the Loyola student handbook rules, and they shouldn't be punished at all. So the question now is which girls want to proceed with litigation and which are just willing to accept the lessened punishments."

and there's the iconic paddle (http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Fraternities_and_sororities#Hazing_Issues)
Historically, many fraternities and sororities hazed their pledges, especially during certain initiation rites. In extreme cases, some pledges even died as a result. Though now created for decoration, the iconic "pledge paddle" is a tradition and reminder of this history.
Certain initiation rites? Hmm, that word rites is strangely close to the word rituals.

Polycarp

07-16-2004, 05:10 PM

All human societies have rituals. Rituals are a non-verbal way to re-assert the bonds within the society (and, occasionally, a way to tap into the mythology* on which the society is built).

The Masons are simply more explicit in their overt bonding (which is probably tied in to their association with the mythology that supports their organization) and use more elaborate rituals to support that bonding.

* Mythology used in the anthropological sense of those stories that provide meaning for the truths held by a group. A group or society that has no explicit mythology, will still use ritual as a source of bonding.)

As always, Tom~ says succinctly and clearly what needs to be said. Any group will produce its "in" customs and phrases that mark one as a member of the group. Even this Internet-based community has such rituals, as evidenced by the obvious completions to the following:

"What I had a hard time dealing with is the Doper ritual over the corpse, when they shot at it with the 1920's style...."

"The three principal commandments are these:
1. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
2. Love your neighbor as yourself
3. Hi...."

"At the Last Supper, Jesus sent Judas forth with a cryptic command 'What you are going to do, do quickly. When come back...."

"And when Huxley had finished expounding Darwin's theory, a shout came from the crowd, 'Cite!?!'"

I mean no sacrilege in phrasing these, but am saying them to point out that even this community has customs and phrases which serve to distinguish it as a group and which have functions within its worldview -- and even we are no exceptions to that.

tomndebb

07-16-2004, 05:22 PM

Of course it all depends on your definition of 'ritual'. Well, my personal definition of ritual, (that I believe I can defend, so that it is not simply idiolectal), is any set of actions performed in common with others of a group that can be anticipated as "expected" by initiated members of the group.

Certainly, this will include quite formal and elaborate rites. However, it will also include simple patterns of behavior. (A number of Protestant groups, reacting against the perceived overelaborate ceremonies of the Catholic Church set out to pray or worship without ritual. While they succeeded in eliminating the gestures and pre-written prayers (along with incense, candles, vestments, etc.) to which they objected, they never really escaped ritual.

And, sorry to say, Zagadka, but I would say that hazing is, indeed, a ritual. It is hardly the sort of ritual to which most people aspire, but it remains a ritual, serving the purpose of reinforcing the association of the group.

Polerius

07-16-2004, 05:33 PM

Masonry is a fraternal organization
What does "fraternal organization" actually mean?
It's a group of people that got together for what purpose?

Most fraternal organizations have rituals. Part of the reason is to provide a consistent experience and explanation to all members. Another part is to establish the bond of common experience.
From what is being said about freemasonry and from some quick searching and browsing of college fraternities, I have come to the following conclusion:

To make your own "fraternal organization", you need to
1) Make up a ritual. Any ritual. The important thing is to have a ritual and to keep it secret from the outsiders.
2) Pick a select few as members (who are honest, moral, intelligent, ambitious, etc)

Presto! You have a fraternal organization whose members feel a brotherhood and share a common experience by having gone through the ritual, something that no one else outside of your brotherhood knows about.

Is this it? Is the simple act of sharing a secret ritual just a mechanism of making people feel brotherhood?

Or do the rituals of some fraternal organizations contain some useful info and deep philosophical insights, and it is those "truths" that make the members feel part of a unique brotherhood? If this is the case, why keep these "truths" from the public?

I may be wrong, but it seems that secret rituals have value just by being secret rituals, without the need for any deep philosophical insights, which makes me doubt that any rituals do have them.

tomndebb

07-16-2004, 05:44 PM

Polerius, I believe you have reversed the order of events, thus somewhat obscuring both the intent and the effect.

People come together for any number of reasons. Once they have come together, rituals naturally arise among them. In the case of the Masons and some other groups, along with the spontaneous rituals they will invest the energy to create specific ceremonies to be acted out ritually. Since the Masons were founded to create a mutually supportive group (hence fraternal) to promote ethical behavior, they probably consciously created rituals that were intended to reinforce their "brotherhood" along with their goals of doing good.

As Poly has so nicely pointed out, even such a random and fractious bunch of people as the members of the SDMB will spontaneously adopt ritual behavior that reinforces the feeling of membership and belonging.

Polerius

07-16-2004, 05:44 PM

I mean no sacrilege in phrasing these, but am saying them to point out that even this community has customs and phrases which serve to distinguish it as a group
For me, one important difference is that our customs and phrases are not secret. Anyone who can visit http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb
can find out all of the info they need about our little community.

We don't have secrets or specifically ask members to keep those secrets from other people.

I think that is the crux of the matter.

Equating all rituals diminishes the differences between out-in-the-open everyday rituals and secret rituals that no one but the insiders must know.

LouisB

07-16-2004, 05:56 PM

Once we've fully exposed the Masons, can someone explain why Shriners wear funny hats? It's a ritual thing.

For the rest of you, we Masons have rituals because we LIKE rituals. In fact, we NEED rituals. If you don't like or need rituals, don't become a Mason. :rolleyes:

The rituals involved in Masonry are fairly constant in their form and substance where ever you might go, at least in the USA. A familiarity with the rituals must be demonstrated when visiting a Lodge for the first time---such familiarity demonstrates that you are who and what you claim to be.

For the record, Masonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. Members are encouraged to never substitute one for the other. In my experience, any discussion of religion among the brothers is prohibited while in the meeting place. For that matter, any discussion of politics in equally prohibited.

BrainGlutton

07-16-2004, 05:56 PM

The Freemasons have rituals because they're SATANIC! :D Just check out this classic Chick tract, "The Curse of Baphomet"!

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0093/0093_01.asp

Polerius

07-16-2004, 05:58 PM

As Poly has so nicely pointed out, even such a random and fractious bunch of people as the members of the SDMB will spontaneously adopt ritual behavior that reinforces the feeling of membership and belonging.
I don't think we have the same feeling of membership and belonging as Masons do, and I think it does have to do with the secrecy of their rituals.

There was a study (can't find the cite right now), where they brought in subjects in pairs to perform a certain task, but weren't supposed to collaborate. They somehow allowed some of the pairs to cheat (i.e. collaborate secretly), and after the test they asked the subjects how close they felt about each other.

In pairs where cheating was not allowed to occur, the two subjects felt like strangers (since they had only known each other very briefly), but in pairs where cheating was allowed and occured, the two subjects felt closer to each other.

Anyway, I don't remember the details and I'm just paraphrasing from memory (I hope I'm not too way off the actual experiment), but the essence is that if you share a secret with someone, you quickly start to feel that you're part of the same team, i.e. feel a brotherhood.

Polerius

07-16-2004, 06:06 PM

In fact, we NEED rituals.
Why?

A familiarity with the rituals must be demonstrated when visiting a Lodge for the first time---such familiarity demonstrates that you are who and what you claim to be.
Why is there a need to "demonstrate that you are who and what you claim to be"?

For the record, Masonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion.

Why there are Masonic funerals? (if the quote at the top of this thread is correct)

stpauler

07-16-2004, 06:29 PM

I pulled out an old book, a compilation really, of Joseph Campbell's writings titled "Myths to Live By". This is from page 57 from the chapter "The Importance of Rites"

...They reflect the projection into the daylight world-in forms of human flesh, ceremonial costume, and architectural stone-of dreamlike mythic images derived not from any actual daylight-life experience. but from depths of what we now are calling the unconscious. And, as such, they arouse and inspire in the beholder dreamlike, unreasonable responses. The characteristic effect of mythic themes and motifs translated into ritual, consequently, is that they link the individual to transindividual purposes and forces. Already in the biosphere it has been observed by stufdents of animal behavior that where species-concerns become dominant- patterns of stereotyped, ritualized behavior move the individual creatures according to programed orders of action common to the species. Likewise, in all areas of human social intercourse, ritualized procedures depersonalize the protagonists, drop or lift them out of themselves, so that their conduct now is not their own but out of the species, the society, the caste, or the profession. Hence, for example, the rituals of investiture of judges, or of officers of state: those so installed are to function in their roles, not as private individuals but as agenst of collective principles and laws. And even in private business exchanges, the patterning of deeds and contracts, bargainings and the thread of recourse to law constitute the ritual rules of a recognized game, relieving the confrontation -to some extent, at least- of personal accent. Without such game rules no society would exist; nor would any individual have the slightest idea how to act. And it will be only by virtue of the game rules of his local social group that anyone's humanity will unfold from the void of undefined potentials to its one and only (temporally, spatially, and temperamentally delimited) actualization as a life.

Polycarp

07-16-2004, 07:16 PM

For me, one important difference is that our customs and phrases are not secret. Anyone who can visit http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb
can find out all of the info they need about our little community.

We don't have secrets or specifically ask members to keep those secrets from other people.

I think that is the crux of the matter.

Equating all rituals diminishes the differences between out-in-the-open everyday rituals and secret rituals that no one but the insiders must know.

Ritual is one thing; secrecy is another. And I agree that the sense of having something known only to the "in group" reinforces the sense of belonging.

A lot of us outgrew that with treehouse secret forts. Others apparently became Free and Applied Masons. ;)

Besides, while most of the Doper catchphrases are no secret, take a look in ATMB when the Moderators are being, uh, witty. (I hope!!) The business with the goat, the hamsters, and the can of Crisco.... ;) (Granted that it's said in jest, but it does reinforce the "in group" status there -- and while our Mods. are nothing short of superb as board moderators go (not an intent to curry favor but an honest assessment -- I can name one man on a board supposedly founded for all Christians for whom anything short of complete allegiance to conservative Catholicism is coming extremely close to breaking the board rules, even though they don't address that issue at all) -- any group with defined boundaries and membership and private status of some sort will evolve an "in group" mentality simply as a matter of course. I guarantee that any honest moderator or ex-moderator here will be willing to concede that he or she makes assumptions about attitudes among fellow moderators that he or she would not of regular members. And that's not said in any way insultingly -- merely recognizing that human nature will prevail among any defined group. (With our mods, thank God, the commitment is to providing fair and balanced treatment among all members -- but how they express that common purpose, I have little doubt, is in a mod "in group" mentality.

Spavined Gelding

07-16-2004, 09:34 PM

You haven’t see anything until you see the Imperial Order of A Odd Fellows or the Knights of Pythius carry on. Now that’s ritual.

BrainGlutton

07-17-2004, 12:00 PM

You haven’t see anything until you see the Imperial Order of A Odd Fellows or the Knights of Pythius carry on. Now that’s ritual.

It's no surprise that those Odd Fellows do carry on! :p

Jackmannii

07-17-2004, 05:14 PM

Uh, on the off-chance that someone might have taken me literally (and I'm not quite sure if that someone included Louis B - I do not harbor suspicions of or feel the need to "expose" the Masons or similar groups.

Seems, though, that some folks will single out Masons or Skull and Bones or whomever as being responsible for the world's problems. One respondent recently to a health fraud e-mail list in which I participate was convinced that Masons are behind attempts to suppress "alternative" medicine.

As long as their are rituals and secrets there will be people who, partly because they feel excluded from the "in" group, resent them and see them as being guilty of nefarious activities.

I myself once turned down an invitation to join the Masons because I didn't like the part about the initiation with the white-hot branding iron. :(

BrainGlutton

07-18-2004, 01:41 PM

Seems, though, that some folks will single out Masons or Skull and Bones or whomever as being responsible for the world's problems. One respondent recently to a health fraud e-mail list in which I participate was convinced that Masons are behind attempts to suppress "alternative" medicine.

[the simpsons]

Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
We do!
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who made Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do!
We do!

[/the simpsons]

Rico

07-18-2004, 02:45 PM

Which other secular club has its own funeral rituals?

I can't speak for others, but as a Past Exalted Ruler of the Elks, I can say we have a beautiful funeral ritual. And it is performed in public, at the funeral home or gravesite.

While it is way to long to post on a message board like this, one of the most impressive parts of the Elks is our "Eleven O'Clock Toast." This is such an established part of the Order that we have informal contests on who can recite the toast the most impressively. I know. I won that award in 1997.

The Toast goes like this:

(11 chimes of a clock)

Esquire: It is the hour of recollection.

Exalted Ruler (or person giving the Toast): You have heard the tolling of eleven strokes, This is to remind you that with the Elks, the hour of Eleven has a tender significance. Wherever an Elk may roam, whatever his lot in life may be, when this hour falls upon the dial of night, the Great Heart of Elkdom swells and throbs. It is the golden hour of recollection, the homecoming of those who wander, the mystic roll call of those who will come no more. Living or dead, an Elk is never forgotten, never forsaken. Morning and noon may pass him by, the light of day sink heedlessly in the west, but ere the shadows of midnight shall fall, the chimes of memory will be pealing forth the friendly message: "To Our Absent Brothers."

Of course, with the admission of women into the Order, several changes were made to the Ritual. This is the version I was taught and remember (and still use when called on to give the Toast).

The Toast is given at funeral rituals, in the Initiation ritual, and anytime an Elks Lodge or Social Event goes to 11:00PM.

Persoanlly, I think it's a very imressive piece of writing.

LouisB

07-18-2004, 03:27 PM

Jackmannii, no, I didn't take you literaly.

Polerius, the statement re liking and needing rituals was supposed to sarcastic. As to proving you are who and what you claim to be, Masonic meetings are conducted by and for Masons. If a stranger comes to the door and wants to attend the meeting, he is required to prove that he is qualified. As to Masonic funerals, I don't understand why you might think the existence of a funeral ritual implies religion. Like all funeral services with which I am familiar, the Masonic service attempts to provide comfort to the families and friends of the departed.

Polerius

07-18-2004, 04:31 PM

I can't speak for others, but as a Past Exalted Ruler of the Elks, I can say we have a beautiful funeral ritual. And it is performed in public, at the funeral home or gravesite.
Thanks for the info.

I have to ask: is the "Exalted Ruler" title a bit tongue-in-cheek, or do people take these titles seriously?

The reason I ask is because it reminds me of Kim Jong-il being called "peerless leader" in North Korea (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/783967.stm).

Polerius

07-18-2004, 04:44 PM

As to proving you are who and what you claim to be, Masonic meetings are conducted by and for Masons. If a stranger comes to the door and wants to attend the meeting, he is required to prove that he is qualified.
Many groups have meetings where they don't want outsiders to attend. But I don't think doctors who want to attend an AMA meeting need to do secret handshakes to get in. Nor does a AAA member from Texas need any secret methods of identifying himself if he walks into a AAA office in Florida.

They just show their ID's and membership cards. Quite simple really. Why the need for the secret handshakes for Masons?

As to Masonic funerals, I don't understand why you might think the existence of a funeral ritual implies religion. Like all funeral services with which I am familiar, the Masonic service attempts to provide comfort to the families and friends of the departed.
I may have misunderstood what "Masonic funeral" means. I thought, from the quote in the OP, that Masons who are Christians forgo the Christian funeral service and replace that with a Masonic service.

If you forgo your religion's funeral service and replace it with the service of some organization, that says pretty strong things about that organization.

If, instead, Christian Masons have regular Christian funerals, and then after that also have some sort of Masonic service, then indeed, this does not necessarily imply a religious aspect to Masonry.

Rico

07-18-2004, 04:59 PM

I have to ask: is the "Exalted Ruler" title a bit tongue-in-cheek, or do people take these titles seriously?

We take them very seriously. Google "Exalted Ruler" and see what you come up with.

However, in the past few years we have passed a resolution that we can use the term "Lodge President" and "Grand President" outside of the Lodge setting if we wish.

Honestly, I'm proud to state I'm a Past Exalted Ruler. I led a lodge for one year, learned a lot, made several very good friends, made a few enemies :eek: but had fun and now am looked up to as a senior advisor of the Elks.

Although we have been known to joke around and call the leader the GRAND POOBAH at times.

:D

Johnny Angel

07-18-2004, 08:27 PM

Polerius wrote:

They just show their ID's and membership cards. Quite simple really. Why the need for the secret handshakes for Masons?

The story goes that lo at the beginning of civilization (usually traced back to Egypt) people started creating great edifices. This required Masons, that is to say, stone workers, whose work involved high levels of technical skills. Unfortunately, these Masons were itinerant, because nobody builds often enough to keep Masons on hand. But when they moved about, how were they to know who else they could trust to work with them in this highly demanding technical field? So, they developed secret signs and rituals only revealed to people with real skills in masonry in order to make sure that they could pick up a crew of competent Masons on the road.

Anyhow, that's the story. Eventually it developed into a club that had nothing to do with building at all, but was useful as a secret society.

In fact, historians are quite skeptical about the antiquity of Masonry. I'm not entirely clear when the Masons formed, but it was a lot later than ancient Egypt. In fact, the early Masonic association of its activities with Egypt had to do with their imitation of Greek culture that even the ancient Greeks believed originated in Egypt, though modern historians have disproved this notion. Like many related movements, Masonry was formed with a fully developed retcon history already in place. These related movements include, but are not excluded to, esotericism, alchemy, Hermeticism and Kabbalism, all of which when brand new had developed origin stories tying them to antiquity.

So, in answer to the title question of the thread, the Masons have rituals because the group has its origins in the mysticism of the 18th century, thereabouts. They keep the rituals even now that hardly any of their members actually believe in magic presumably because of the community-knitting power that rituals are believed to have, and probably because it's kind of a kick. The various Masonic organizations are mostly no longer secret societies, though secret societies patterned on their model may well exist. They're just clubs that do some public service, and I am given to understand that there's some drinking involved. I have generally assumed that the Greek societies in colleges are themselves Masonic in origin, explaining certain commonalities, but somebody may be able to speak better to this.

I would like to point out that even as secular as Masonic organizations have become, they are still substantially more occult than Dungeons & Dragons.

BrainGlutton

07-18-2004, 08:36 PM

Say, where's Paul in Saudi? He's a Mason and he always contributes to Masonry-related threads -- in GQ, anyway.

RickJay

07-18-2004, 08:47 PM

I'd tell you, but I'd have to kill you.

Not that you'd understand in the short, painful period of time between the explanation and sweet death settling upon you.

And yes, our house takes our ritual very seriously.
Okay, but... why?

LouisB

07-18-2004, 09:22 PM

Johnny Angel, every Masonic Lodge I have ever encountered forbids the drinking of alcohol on Lodge premises. I believe the banning of alcohol is standard in the USA. What the Shriners do, I don't know since I am not a Shriner. I am a Master Mason and have been for twenty-four years. I am Past Master of my Lodge and I take considerable pride in that. I am at least a third generation Mason, following my paternal grandfather and my father into the organization. There is a certain sense of continuity inherent in that.

Polerius, if you cannot immediately see the difference between a fraternal organization (Masons), a professional association (AMA), and an Insurance company (AAA), I can't see any point in discusing the matter further with you. I think you don't want your ignorance fought; I think you are being deliberately obtuse and that's about the most favorable interpretation I can put on it.

BrainGlutton

07-18-2004, 09:25 PM

Johnny Angel

07-18-2004, 09:53 PM

LouisB wrote:

Johnny Angel, every Masonic Lodge I have ever encountered forbids the drinking of alcohol on Lodge premises. I believe the banning of alcohol is standard in the USA. What the Shriners do, I don't know since I am not a Shriner. I am a Master Mason and have been for twenty-four years. I am Past Master of my Lodge and I take considerable pride in that. I am at least a third generation Mason, following my paternal grandfather and my father into the organization. There is a certain sense of continuity inherent in that.

What I gather from actual Masons, as opposed to the many Masonic offshoots, is that it's a fairly serious and sober organization dedicated to its public works. I am not as skeptical of this as I am of similar claims on the part of those who speak up for fraternities. That fraternities continue to practice shenanigans after many scandals is hardly a secret. Also, you're not the first to emphasize this national standard of behavior. There was something of a controversy last year when a person got shot during a Masonic ritual, and a student in my class, a proud member of The Masons, said that the ritual described did not conform to the proscribed initiation rites and standards of conduct about which he assured me the national organization was serious as a heart attack. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just saying that there seems to be more going on in Masonry than is sanctioned by its highest ideals. Oh, and also my crack was mostly aimed at those lodges you see on TV with the funny hats.

BrainGlutton wrote:

Aren't the Shriners a branch of the Masons?

They're seperate but related organizations. There are a lot of Masonic organizations, but there is also The Masons, with a capitalized 'the.' The Shriners are Masonic.

BrainGlutton

07-18-2004, 10:04 PM

Polerius

07-19-2004, 05:22 AM

Polerius, if you cannot immediately see the difference between a fraternal organization (Masons), a professional association (AMA), and an Insurance company (AAA), I can't see any point in discusing the matter further with you. I think you don't want your ignorance fought; I think you are being deliberately obtuse and that's about the most favorable interpretation I can put on it.
I think you misunderstood my intentions. I do want to know the answer to "why Masons use secret handshakes", it's just that I couldn't think of better examples.

Since you make a distinction between a fraternal organization (Masons) and a professional association (AMA), can you please tell me what aspect of being a "fraternal organization" requires the use of secret handshakes? As I mentioned earlier, the AMA (even though not a fraternal organization), must have some secrets of its own that it does not want outsiders to know. Why don't they protect them as strongly as Masons do? (and if the AMA doesn't have any secrets, surely there are countless other organizations that do)

Or are you saying that a fraternal organization is not actually trying to protect any important secrets, it just uses the secret handshakes to identify its members, "because that's what fraternal organizations do", i.e. the process of identification through secret handshakes is just the modus operandi of any fraternal organization, and the reason: just because.

If the above is not the case, and the purpose is to protect some secrets from outsiders, why do Masons take such extreme measures, that other organizations (admittedly not fraternal organizations, but with their own very important secrets) do not take?

Odesio

07-19-2004, 05:36 AM

Since you make a distinction between a fraternal organization (Masons) and a professional association (AMA), can you please tell me what aspect of being a "fraternal organization" requires the use of secret handshakes? As I mentioned earlier, the AMA (even though not a fraternal organization), must have some secrets of its own that it does not want outsiders to know.

A secret handshake is not a requirement for something to be a fraternal organization. However organizations, like individuals, vary in their purpose and traditions. Don't underestimate the power of traditions to maintain a strangle on what we do despite it's original purpose being long forgotten or unimportant.

Marc

Why don't they protect them as strongly as Masons do? (and if the AMA doesn't have any secrets, surely there are countless other organizations that do)

Or are you saying that a fraternal organization is not actually trying to protect any important secrets, it just uses the secret handshakes to identify its members, "because that's what fraternal organizations do", i.e. the process of identification through secret handshakes is just the modus operandi of any fraternal organization, and the reason: just because.

If the above is not the case, and the purpose is to protect some secrets from outsiders, why do Masons take such extreme measures, that other organizations (admittedly not fraternal organizations, but with their own very important secrets) do not take?[/QUOTE]

LouisB

07-19-2004, 06:49 AM

[QUOTE=Johnny AngelThey're seperate but related organizations. There are a lot of Masonic organizations, but there is also The Masons, with a capitalized 'the.' The Shriners are Masonic.

Clear as mud, Johnny. Does "The Masons" include the Shriners, or does it not? And if "The Masons" have a policy against drinking in the lodge, does that include the Shriners?[/QUOTE] All Shriners are Masons; not all Masons are Shriners. Does that help? Shriners are Masons who have acheived the 32nd degree in Masonry, although not all Masons who have acheived that degree are Shriners. The Shrine invites Masons who have acheived the 32nd degree to become Shriners; not all such Masons accept the invitation. I did not, for example. As to alcohol consumption, I can only speak for Masons: Alcohol is not to be consumed on the Lodge premises. As I said earlier, I cannot state what policy Shriners have on drinking alcohol on Temple premises as I am not a Shriner and have no idea what they do during the course of their meetings.

As to the 32nd degree---various degrees ranging from the 4th to the 32nd are attainable through advanced study of Masonic principles. A man who holds any or all of the advanced degrees does not outrank a Mason who does not hold such degrees.

And, a note on "Secret Societies." The Masonic Fraternity is NOT a secret society. Masons do not make any attempt to conceal their membership in the Fraternity. Members of secret societies DO conceal their membership--otherwise, the society would not be secret. Many Masons wear Masonic rings, lapel pins, belt buckles, etc that proclaim their membership. Many Masons have plaques proclaiming their affiliations with various Masonic societies attached to their automobiles. There is no secrecy associated with being a Mason; there are secrets associated with the Fraternity. But---the Masonic secrets are not really secrets anymore; the complete ritual can be found in any of several books that are available in any good public library. I would imagine the information is also available on the Internet.

LouisB

07-19-2004, 07:52 AM

Polerius, I apologize for impuging your motives. You seem to be concerned with the need for secret handshakes---the handshake, or the grip used in shaking hands, helps to identify one Mason to another. The handshake itself is not the only means of identification---it isn't even the most important. If the handshake is presented informally, it can be so subtle that many Masons won't recognize it for what it is unless they are primed to do so. If you are sincerly intersted in Masonry, locate a local Lodge, call that Lodge on the phone, and make an appointment with the Secretary. He will explain in person many of the things that I can't go into on the Internet----telling something to a man face to face is significantly different that broadcasting it to the entire world. He will also give you some explanatory literature, in most cases---if he thinks you are intersted in "exposing" Masonry, he won't have much time for you.

Don't make too much of the rituals----it is the idea behind the rituals that is important. The rituals help a person focus on the ideals, and on the history behind them.

BrainGlutton

07-19-2004, 10:02 AM

The Masonic Fraternity is NOT a secret society. Masons do not make any attempt to conceal their membership in the Fraternity.

I think the Freemasons got a reputation as a secret society because they were exactly that, back in the 18th Century -- not in Britain, but in many countries on the Continent, they were considered a politically subversive organization, and a suspected Mason might get in trouble with the state or with the Inquisition. And in fact, by the standards of the time the Masons were a politically subversive organization, advocating free speech, a free press, no established church, etc. -- in short, all the rationalistic and liberal values of the Enlightenment. So it comes as no surprise that George Washington and several others of our Founding Fathers were Masons. Franklin too, I believe. I'm not sure about Jefferson.

Have I got that right?

One other point: The Masons might be considered a secret society in the sense that, although they do not conceal their organization's existence nor their membership in it, they do have secret rituals and doctrines, known only to initiates. By this time there is probably not a single Masonic ritual, handshake or codeword that has not been described in a published book somewhere, but in principle they're supposed to be secret. One purpose of this (so a Unitarian minister once told me) is that each stage of Masonic initiation is supposed to have a certain psychological effect, which will be spoiled if the postulant knows in advance what is going to happen during the ceremony. Some of these rites were described by Robert Anton Wilson in his "Historical Illuminatus Chronicles" -- The Earth Will Shake, The Widow's Son, and Nature's God -- all set in the late 18th Century. Whether Wilson is himself a Mason I do not know, but it's clear he's made a deep study of Masonry.

Have I got that right?

Where are you, Paul in Saudi?

BrainGlutton

07-19-2004, 10:58 AM

From the classic Ray Stevens song, "Shriner's Convention" (http://www.raystevens.com/SongLyrics/ShrinersConventionLyrics.html):

Well, it was a secret meeting in the dead of the night with mysterious sanctimony
In accordance with prescribed rituals of time honored ceremony
Matters of grave concern were weighed with dedicated caution
Like whether or not to raise at stud or draw or spit in the ocean

Chorus

It's a typical American phenomenon where all the members have a fine old time
It's the forty-third annual Convention of the Grand Mystic Royal Order
Of the Nobles of the Ali Baba Temple of the Shrine

Girls

Meanwhile back at the Motel.....

Spoken

"Operator, room three-twenty...How'd you know? Oh! Hello! Coy? Where have you been? No, you wasn't at the meeting! Well, I found out that at three o'clock this mornin' you was out there in your Fruit of the Loom's in the motel swimmin' pool with a bunch of them waitresses from the cocktail lounge! I just hope your mama don't find out about this, Coy! What? Well, how'd you get that big motorcycle up there on the high dive, Coy? Now Coy, dad blame it, that ain't no way to act. We supposed to be pillars of the community. When we get back to Hahira you can just turn in your ring and your tie tack 'cause Coy, heh-heh, you are out of the Shrine! You gonna be blackballed, boy! That's right! You might even have to pack your bags and leave town! What do you mean you might join the Hell's Angels? Coy! Don't you hang up on me! Hello, hello...Don't you crank that motorcycle! Who's that gigglin' in the background, Coy? Hello, hello operator! Yeah, we's cut off! Rroom 321. Dad blame it Coy! You don't hang up on the illustrious Potentate! I said the illustrious Potentate! This is Bubba! Bubba! Coy!............."

Zakalwe

07-19-2004, 04:25 PM

Random thoughts while catching up on this thread:

Others apparently became Free and Applied Masons.Free and Accepted Masons. Applied Masonry is a reference to the actual practice.
If, instead, Christian Masons have regular Christian funerals, and then after that also have some sort of Masonic service, then indeed, this does not necessarily imply a religious aspect to Masonry.This is correct. The Masonic Funeral service is a way for Masons to honor a fallen Brother and is usually performed in addition to the religious service chosen by the family.
In fact, historians are quite skeptical about the antiquity of Masonry.This may be the understatement of the entire thread!
They're seperate but related organizations. As I remember the term is usually "Allied and Appendant" . All of the comments below are subject to my faulty memory/knowledge - I am not a member of all of the organizations listed.
A&A bodies include (but are not limited to):
Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shrine - must be a Mason to join
The Order of the Eastern Star - must be a Mason to join if male, open to all female relatives of Masonry.
Job's Daughters - for teenage girls - open to the daughter's, granddaughters, etc. of Masons.
Rainbow Girls - open to all teenage girls
Order of DeMolay - open to all teenage boys
There are many others, but some are more prevalent in certain regions of the US.

If the above is not the case, and the purpose is to protect some secrets from outsiders, why do Masons take such extreme measures, that other organizations (admittedly not fraternal organizations, but with their own very important secrets) do not take?Why is a secret handshake an extreme measure, but requiring a membership card and a photo id not? A handshake has the advantage of:
1. Not requiring printing since Masonry may well predate the availability of the printing press.
2. Not requiring you to remember to bring your wallet to the meeting and working even if you've lost your wallet.
3. Another thing you should keep in mind is that there is no national or international body in charge of Masonry. Masonry is governed at the state level (in the US - national level for most other countries) by each state's Grand Lodge which is comprised of that state's local Lodges. Thus, there is no body to issue/track/standardize ID cards. But a man who knows the various ways one Mason may identify himself to another has probably gone through the difficult (well, theoretically anyway, it's actually not that hard) and time-consuming task of becoming a Mason and deserves the recognition and privileges attendant with that honor.
And, a note on "Secret Societies." The Masonic Fraternity is NOT a secret society.Loved this whole paragraph! Well written, Brother.

To all of my fellow Mason in this thread a hearty hello! Recognizing the near impossibility of it, but it would be cool to meet and open Lodge together sometime - a Doper Lodge!

Zakalwe - P.M.