George Lucas is a whore!

The sight of Col. Sanders with a light saber is the last straw! If I knew it would come to this I never would have made the $2.50 investment at the box office 22 years ago!

THAT's your last straw? Hmm, something tells me you are not prepared for the horrors of the future, young Jedi.
Which begs the question what my last straw would be. I personally thought that news anchors spending time showing off and talking about the new Star Wars toys was pretty bad, but something tells me that the "product placement" can and certainly will be much worse for the "final installment" movie in a few years.
Oh and he's not a whore. He's a pimp!

Col. Sanders with a lightsabre? *pales*

Well, alright, that is vile. I don't think it's Georges Lucas' wish, though. People seem to confuse the story with all the parasites that leech unto it.

If Lucas were some poor bastard with a crazy sci-fi idea no one would pay attention to, he wouldn't be called a whore. But he's making millions off of his story, and suddenly it makes him bad.

What's bad is the people willing to pay thousands of dollars in SW merchandise instead of contending with paying $7 for a movie ticket.

It's the media who see a fast buck so turn a fan event into a multimillion gorefest of hype. The Sanders-wielding lightsabre is the perfect example of this.

People should just wait anxiously without making a fuss, sit in the theatre, and enjoy the popcorn and the pretty pictures. And that's what I'm gonna do.

Elijah,
Perhaps you're not aware that Lucas owns 100% of all the marketing and merchandising rights to the Star Wars movies. So it is his wish and he's making a killing off of it. Not that I can blame him for making lots of cash off of people who are more than willing to give it up. Don't like it, don't buy it-that's what I do.

TheDude

Let's balance this, please, with the information that Lucas made the film available last week to a dozen charities across the country for pre-opening day fundraising efforts. The Pediatric AIDS Foundation in Southern California made a million dollars this weekend off the movie; I'm sure the numbers are similar for the other eleven charities around the country.

-Melin

------------------
I'm a woman phenomenally
Phenomenal woman
That's me
(Maya Angelou)

Taco Bell Rat/Dog: "May the Force be with you!"

"May the SALES Force be with you."

I see Lucas more like a big fat tick than a whore. A whore at least as to do something. Lucas made more money talking about a possible Star Wars movies than actually making one. He's the perfect symbol for what passes as American Culture -- the cannibal hack.

[[The sight of Col. Sanders with a light saber is the last straw! If I knew it would come to this I never would have made the $2.50 investment at the box office 22 years ago!]]


Hey, it's "Star Wars," OK -- a big budget production created with the primary intent to make a lot of money. We ain't talking art with a capital "A" here -- it's not like he's mucking up "Citizen Kane" or "Moby Dick."

Stars Wars' marketing is the evil empire with a tractor beam, that will pull large audiences in to watch it and buy merchandise. You can not resist the dark side.

The hype and merchandising was quite bad back when ANH came out. This is nothing new.

SW is an icon of pop culture, and everyone wants to buy the action figures. It's nothing new to Star Wars, we're just old enough to get disgusted by it now.

Still, I say the fans are the ones giving the hype a reason to exist. If every fan only wanted to see a good movie they've been waiting for for a long time, we wouldn't get this.

The media always give you a -bit- too much, because they'll feed the hype until it saturates the public. We're getting near the saturation point, but the reason it reached such ludicrous heights is because the public wanted it in the first place.

The only SW memorablia I bought so far is a ticket. That in itself does not generate such hype. And Pepsi will not get me to drink their cola just because Yoda's on it. And whether it comes with a SW toy or not, KFC is still biohazard.

Again, at the risk of repeating myself: it's the people who create the hype. The media just see a quick buck and run with it.

Stars Wars' marketing is the evil empire with a tractor beam, that will pull large audiences in to watch it and buy merchandise. You can not resist the dark side.

Quite ironic that you would use words from Lucas' own paradigm to describe him.

Off to the Ministry of Love you go.

If I could make the money Lucas makes, I'll be a whore.

As long as people are willing to fork out the $$$, why not! Although we all try to say the honorable thing and decry the evils of commercialization, I bet there is not one among us who wouldn't trade job descriptions with him in a heartbeat.

More power to him!


------------------
>^,,^<
KITTEN

He who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok. - Confucius

at least you won't see product placement in any Star Wars movie, such as Yoda using Oil of Olay, or Chewbacca wearing a Hartz flea collar...

------------------
shiner bock

"Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything that I want, or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do." -- They Might Be Giants

"When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not, hmmm?" -- Yoda

Hope this doesn't offend anybody, but I really don't give a crap about "Star Wars" or whatever new "Star Wars" movie has come out. I think this is the healthy attitude to have in order to overcome the media "Star Wars" tsunami.

Do not under estimate the power of the force and Emperor Lucas!
.-.
|_:_|
/(_Y_)\
( \/M\/ )
'. _.'-/'-'\-'._
': _/.--'[[[[]'--.\_
': /_' : |::"| : '.\
': // ./ |oUU| \.' :\
': _:'..' \_|___|_/ : :|
':. .' |_[___]_| :.':\
[::\ | : | | : ; : \
'-' \/'.| |.' \ .;.' |
|\_ \ '-' : | snd

Shanaka Dias - edias@alpha1.curtin.edu.au

http://www.chris.com/ascii_art_menu.html

Whoops! The force is not strong enough for ascii art.

Okay, I just saw the movie! I still think George Lucas is whore, but at the same time he's a damned good one. He has the talents of a $5,000 a night call girl, so why is he giving 50 cent hand jobs in the Pizza Hut parking lot?

Like it or not, motion pictures are to this age what Homeric epics were to the Clasical age, and operas were to the last two centurys. Lucas' mythology could potentialy rival those of Wagner and Malory in a hundred years. Why is he letting one of the most prominant works of art in the 20th century be cheapened by the likes of Pepsico, for a few bucks he could easily live without?

With all due respect, Papa, in ten years I won't remember the taco bell commercials, but I will have this movie on tape. Then, too, with what I know of Malory he might have been eager to entertain offers from the likes of Pizza Hut, too.

LOL! Lucas rivaling Wagner? Hahaha!

Oh, man. He'll be forgotten (along with his tripe) fairly soon as far as world events go.
Despite the big numbers his movies generate, he's yet to be as popular as the Beatles, or for that matter Nancy Sinatra. Okay, maybe Star Wars is bigger than ol' Nancy ever became. But not by much.

It may help to remember that the most popular actor in the world is Jackie Chan.

evolution of Star Wars
Star Wars: mega super kick ass
Empire Strikes Back: super kick ass
Return of the Jedi: kick ass
Phantom Menace: sucked ass


------------------
The only normal people are the one's you don't know very well. -Joe Ancis

I think Star Wars Inc. ended up making a significantly greater amount of money than Nancy Sinatra and (probably) the Beatles added for good measure.
As a movie, "Phantom Menace" kicks ass. As a Star Wars flick, it's easily the best one of the lot. And like it or not, the whole thing will be around for one hell of a long time, I assure you.
Waving it off as escapist tripe and doomed to obscurity isn't being realistic. It's being a bitter old turd.

Elijah: When you say the hype and merchandising were bad when ANH came out, I hope you were referring to the "special edition" reissue a couple years ago. When the first STAR WARS (later retitled A NEW HOPE) came out in May, no one expected it to be the hit it was, so the studio didn't have all its merchandising in place. Fans who wanted action figures had to wait for months; there was some kind of goofy deal where you could pre-order them and receive a certificate or empty display box or something, and then hope you got the actual figure by Christmas.

Obviously, for EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, the merchandise was in place ahead of time. But it wasn't until RETURN OF THE JEDI that it started to become more important than the films. The Ewok planet was originally supposed to be a Wookie planet, but George Lucas thought that toys of cute little furry creatures would sell better. So the film was changed in order to improve the sales of the merchandise. In effect, Lucas epic ceased to be a mythic saga and became instead a multi-million dollar commercial. The trend continues with PHANTOM MENACE, which must rank as this year's GODZILLA in the category of overhyped disappointment.

{{When you say the hype and merchandising were bad when ANH came out, I hope you were referring to the "special edition" reissue a couple years ago. When the first STAR WARS (later retitled A NEW HOPE) came out in May, no one expected it to be the hit it was, so the studio didn't have all its merchandising in place. }}

The first Star Wars movie made, Episode IV, was ALWAYS titled "Star Wars: A New Hope". More emphasis has been put on the subtitle lately, but it's always had that subtitle.


------------------
Lynn the Packrat

/ Hey, it's "Star Wars," /

Well, no, it isn't. That's the problem. In fact, it appears to be a lavishly produced episode of Battlestar Galactica.


/ OK -- a big budget production created with the
primary intent to make a lot of money./

You know, like most interesting art.

/ We ain't talking art with a
capital "A" here -- it's not like he's mucking up "Citizen Kane" or
"Moby Dick." /

Yeah, I think it is like he's mucking up "Citizen Kane." He's created a diluting prequel to an acknowledged movie classic. You might actually argue that Star Wars is more of a classic than Kane, even if not as technically influential or self consciously arty. SW certainly has a greater generational defining quality to it, like the Beatles, or something. Woodstock, what have you.

So an awful lot of people were like "huh?" on the 19th. Really kids, it stinks on ice, does PM.

------------------

{\¶/}

RTA Okay! You're on! I say in 25 years
STAR WARS will get a mention as being a big hit and it will lumped together with JAWS and THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW as examples of late 20th Century movies. You say STAR WARS will have such a lasting influence, more people will visit George Lucas' tomb than visit Graceland.

Actually I didn't do that at all. I rarely if ever use the word "Graceland" at all, and I have no way of knowing what the public's relationship will be with Skywalker Ranch (Lucas' Marin Co. facility, assuming for one second that's where he gets buried) after Lucas dies. If it IS opened to the public, it will get a shitload of tourists, that I do believe.
And I do think the Star Wars movies will survive longer than 25 years and be ranked higher than "Jaws" or "Rocky Horror" (isn't that piece of crap dead YET?). What I'm talking is more of a "Lawrence of Arabia"/"10 Commandments"/"Gone with the Wind" sort of thing.

Obviously, for EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, the merchandise was in place ahead of time. But it wasn't until RETURN OF THE JEDI that it started to become more important than the films. The Ewok planet was originally supposed to be a Wookie planet, but George Lucas thought that toys of cute little furry creatures would sell better. So the film was changed in order to improve the sales of the merchandise. In effect, Lucas epic ceased to be a mythic saga and became instead a multi-million dollar commercial. The trend continues with PHANTOM MENACE, which must rank as this year's GODZILLA in the category of overhyped disappointment.

Obviously, merchandising is more of a trend than a new phenomenon for the SW universe. There were toys for A New Hope, and I'm sure my parents were sick of hearing me lament to get a Luke action figure.

But the thing is, at that age, hype just meant we were bombarded by coolness on TV. It took a while to realise ads were actually annoying, and not just there to show you a cool toy you absolutely have to have.

I suspect many SW detractors simply were too young to remember the previous SW hype. We remember ESB as a quality, dramatic film, yet I distinctly remember glasses, t-shirts, lunchboxes and a pile of action figures. Who didn't have his own Bobba Fett or that twin seats orange horror passing as a vehicle for 3 seconds in ESB? It LOOKS like a toy so much it was probably put into the film directly from the toy designs.

But now, like then, I don't care whether Pepsi is being cute. It seems there is more 'I'm sick of the hype' hype than actual SW hype.

If you guys REALLY didn't buy into the hype, you'd simply ignore it. Bitching and moaning is just trying to ride the hype by being contradictory, with no regard for the actual quality of the product. Kinda like people who abandon music groups, as a rule, when they become popular.

Sorry, but STAR WARS became Episode IV: A New Hope only retroactively, after the release of Episode V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES back. It was at this time that Lucas gave all the interviews outlining his so-called masterplan and cluing us in to the fact that we were seeing episodes of a middle trilogy in what (at that time) was ultimately supposed to be a nine-part series. Calling STAR WARS "Episode IV" at the time of its initial release would have made no sense to any viewer.

In fact, it still didn't make sense to some viewers when EMPIRE came out. I remember attending one of the first advanced screenings with director Irvin Krishner and the producer in attendance. During the Q&A afterward, people were still asking, "Why is this Episode V? What happened to episodes 2, 3, and 4?"

When STAR WARS was re-released after EMPIRE, new prints were struck, and the change was made.

{{Sorry, but STAR WARS became Episode IV: A New Hope only retroactively, after the release of Episode V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES back. It was at this time that Lucas gave all the interviews outlining his so-called masterplan and cluing us in to the fact that we were seeing episodes of a middle trilogy in what (at that time) was ultimately supposed to be a nine-part series. Calling STAR WARS "Episode IV" at the time of its initial release would have made no sense to any viewer.}}

Nope. I went to one of the first screenings of SW:ANH with my younger brother. I remember seeing the "Episode IV: A New Hope" on the screen, and discussing it with him afterwards. And neither of us understood the reasoning behind it at the time. Incidentally, as to how old I was when I saw it...well, I'm 41 now. You do the math.

Someone else said that the movie video packaging didn't have Episode IV or A New Hope on it. This may be so. When it came out on tape, I didn't have a VCR or the money to buy one, so I didn't even go look at the tapes for sale. But when the movie was released for the first time in theaters, it was, indeed, released as Episode IV, and that's what I was talking about.


------------------
Lynn the Packrat

Nope. I went to one of the first screenings of SW:ANH with my younger brother. I
remember seeing the "Episode IV: A New Hope" on the screen, and discussing it with him
afterwards. And neither of us understood the reasoning behind it at the time.

I hate to correct a moderator, but on this point I must. When Star Wars was released in 1977 there was no mentioning of it being "episode IV". Episode IV was not tacked on until it was rereleased in 1979, with a trailer for the Empire Strikes Back.

check out question #1 for a reference to this fact.
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/ip/sigs/futurist/star-wars/faq/general

Probably the time you saw it with your brother was in 79, after they had already put Episode IV on.

Now, as far as video tapes go, they ALL say Episode IV.

And arguing about whether or not a movie is any good, is rather silly. I enjoyed The Phantom Menace, of course others might not. I can't wait for the next two films to come out, others could care less.. To each his own, I would say.

pat

Hmmm ... I remember when I saw SW#1 the first time with my dad (when it was released the first time), the episode IV screen crawl was well in place. Like Lynn, I thought it was odd.

I'm with CFQ and Priciar... The initial run of STAR WARS had no "Episode 4" and no "New Hope." That came later, albeit not much later. We had a (pirate) video in 1981 that had no mention of Episode 4. I can remember quite clearly when we took our son back to see the movie again and suddenly it was Episode 4.

The first Star Wars movie made, Episode IV, was ALWAYS titled "Star Wars: A New Hope". More emphasis has been put on the subtitle lately, but it's always had that subtitle.

I have in front of me the original video tape (one that was made in 1992, but with the original cover) and A New Hope is mentioned nowhere on the box or the tape. However, the words A New Hope have always appeared on the opening screen (the one where they give you a short plot description).

Personally, I think the Star Wars movies were all good if you ignore the hype and cut out the cheesy, money-making, cutesy creatures. The Ewoks were but the first step in hopelessly diluting the interesting parts of the Star Wars movies with mindless drivel aimed at selling more toys to teenage boys.

TheDude

Lynn could be mistaken... remember Star Wars was re-released in theaters, I know because I missed it the first time and begged my Dad to take me to see it when it came back... we still missed it. Anyway, I have seen the first 3, and they are modern classics to me, however I am put off by the hype. This is the kind of thing that makes me wait for it to come on video... I saw the Mummy instead.

I saw STAR WARS during its initial release in 1977 at least three times. It was not "Episode IV." Everyone who remembers seeing "Episode IV" must be remembering a subsequent re-release, after EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. I suppose ten or twenty years from now, people will recall seeing Jaba the Hutt the first time they saw STAR WARS.

Lucas himself has said that at the time of the first release of STAR WARS, he did not expect it to become the blockbuster hit it did, and he had no idea whether he would eventually be able to any sequels or prequels. In effect, it was a stand-alone film, until success decreed that there would indeed be sequels. The nine-film masterplan then emerged in interviews given to promote EMPIRE.

OK, untill now, I've pretty much stayed out of the BBQ Pit, 'cause I wasn't expecting anything but flames that had developed over other topics. But I gotta add my two cents to this.

First of all, I think PM is without a doubt the worst Star Wars film. Not that its not still enjoyable, but after the newness wears off, I think it'll take its place behind Jedi. The plot is a rehash of A New Hope, the acting is stiff in many places, and as I've said before, Jar Jar and those damn Gungun are to the Ewoks what the Ewoks are to Baba Fett. The fight scenes, which everyone else seemd to love, I thought were to dance-y. In the earlier movies, it really looked like people going at each other with swords. The PM fights have too many pirouettes and fancy moves that make no sense in the fight and look too coreographed. Oh yeah, even worse than the damn Gungun, was that stupid announcer at the races. Every time the race started to get really tense for me, that two-headed idiot would start yapping and ruin it for me. It was like it was calculated to destroy any interest or suspense whatsoever. Finally, (though there's more) Darth Maul was completely (and I mean completely) undeveloped. He barely had any lines. As a result, he was totally unthreatening to me. I never got the feeling that he was anything more than some henchman in bad clown makeup. Totally ineffectual.

Secondly, I can't blame Lucas for wanting to make lots of money. If he gives some of it away, good for him. (Though I wonder how much it is compared to his actual income, or other people with similar incomes.) He does have total control over what people do with the merchandising, though. Pepsi, KFC (different companies now, according to something I saw on this board), Kenner, etc. all pay him to hock his movie for him. Does anyone really think KFC would have changed their minds if he'd said, "Don't give the Colonol a lightsaber"?

BTW, Elija responded to Cheese Head by saying:Quite ironic that you would use words from Lucas' own paradigm to describe him.I think Cheese actually got this one right. Think about it. Everyone knows that Lucas always intended Luke to be him. Hamil admitted to basing his characterization on this; even the names are the same (Luke S.::Lukas). At the time of the first trilogy, Lukas was a young, idealistic, unknown filmmaker, who had to fight with the evil Hollywood studios to have hios dream realized. Now he's making a trilogy about more recent events in his life. How he became seduced by the dark side and turned into the very power-hungry, ego-driven sort of producer he hated. Get it?

PS--If the 1977 release didn't have the opening scroll, what did it have at the beginning? Do any copies like this still exist?

Leave it to one us old farts to clear up this titles mess. STAR WARS (that is what the 1977 movie was called when it was first released) had, like all the rest or the movies a "Long, long ago...." scroll. It absolutely DID NOT have Episode IV on it though. I won't stick my neck out too far on the "A NEW HOPE" subtitle, but I have no recollection of it in the original titles. I'm positive about the absence of "Episode IV", though, because everybody in the theater would have gone, "Huh? Say what?"

I've said before, Jar Jar and those damn Gungun are to the Ewoks what the Ewoks
are to Baba Fett.

(later in same post)

Finally, (though there's more) Darth Maul was completely (and I mean
completely) undeveloped. He barely had any lines. As a result, he was totally
unthreatening to me. I never got the feeling that he was anything more than some
henchman in bad clown makeup. Totally ineffectual.

Yeah. As opposed to the oh-so-dripping-with-development-and-depth-we-feel-like-we-know-him Boba Fett, who most fanboys seem to feel the entire trilogy was actually about.

It absolutely DID NOT have Episode IV on it though. I won't stick my neck out too far on the "A NEW HOPE" subtitle, but I have no recollection of it in the original titles. I'm positive about the absence of "Episode IV"

PapaBear, if you saw the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi during the late 70s/early 80s, did they have episode numbers?
I was in diapers at the time, so I'm just curious.

------------------
"[He] beat his fist down upon the table and hurt his hand and became so
further enraged... that he beat his fist down upon the table even harder and
hurt his hand some more." -- Joseph Heller's Catch-22

Yes. All the following films had episode numbers. I think it was about a year after STAR WARS was released (but still in theaters, IIRC) that word of a sequel and even a 9-part series came down from on high. I remember that the concensus among my friends was that all the movies would be completed by 1993!

Speaking of George Lucas the pimp (or whore), did anyone besides me see the enormous amount of bizarre Star Wars products that have come into stores? There are Star Wars pillows, SW dishes, SW towels, SW books, SW paper dolls, SW action figures, SW fashion dolls, I AM A DROID by C3P0, Queen Amidala's diary, and SW LOTION(!?!?) What the hell is going on with movies? Movies like Citizen Kane and Moby Dick NEVER sunk so low.

What? No Rosebud brand sleds or Ahab pegleg polish?

Yeah. As opposed to the oh-so-dripping-with-development-and-depth-we-feel-like-we-know-him Boba Fett, who most fanboys seem to feel the entire trilogy was actually about.
Actually, I'm no real Boba Fett fan myself. My point was that whereas Fett was (at least to a lot of people) intreguing and interesting, the Ewoks, and even more so the Gunguns, were obvious, boring, and annoying. The fact that we don't know much about Fett is OK precicely because he wasn't an important character at all. Darth Maul, however, is the main villian in PM, and is nowhwere near as threatening or compelling as Darth Vader, or even Jaba the Hutt, the real villians of the first movies.

I think the fact we don't know so much about Darth Maul is why he is that much more menacing and scary. We know little more about the character then the Jedi in the movie do. Which makes it more exciting.
Also, kind of goes along with the title of the movie.


on another unrelated note - oh, everyone is buying the Citizen Kane Brand snowglobes. :)

pat

Lucas said he doesn't plan on making the final trilogy (7-9)... how many people here believe that one?


------------------
"[He] beat his fist down upon the table and hurt his hand and became so
further enraged... that he beat his fist down upon the table even harder and
hurt his hand some more." -- Joseph Heller's Catch-22

Thats a good question. Lucas does seem to change his story regarding the 9 movie idea.

In fact, the former Star Wars Producer Garry Kurtz came out with a outline he claims was what Lucas planned on doing with the movies originally. In my opinion, the story arc that his outline showed wasn't as good as the one we seem to be getting. But, that outline did include 9 movies.

There are a couple of things that make me think he might not do 7-9.
First, there is the fact that Harrison Ford has gone on the record saying that he will never ever do another star wars movie. The next set of sequels would have the original heros in the future, I can't imagine Lucas deciding to cast someone else as Han Solo.
Second, Lucas has said quite a few times that the story is about Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker and his rise fall and redemption. So, making another set of sequels seems to take away from that.

On, the other hand Mark Hamil has said that Lucas told him that the would be making another round of sequels with Luke Skywalker being a Obi Wan type character.
So, really who knows.

pat

Hasn't the post-Episode VI era pretty well been layed out in the novels? Although I think some of them would make good movies, they certainly wouldn't garner the same kind of anticipation that the last 3 movies have.

The last I heard Lucas claimed that he would not do the final 3, because he had "other movies (he) wants to make".
Oh yeah, George? Is that right! Like what?!
"Radioland Murders II"?
"Howard the Duck II"?

Wait, those were pretty bad, but he was involved in some good stuff other than star wars. such as: The Indian Jones trilogy, and Labyrinth.
To just bring up the movies that weren't totally successful is a bit unfair.
I actually enjoyed the Radioland Murders, by the way, I thought it was a fun movie that worked with an interesting entertainment form from the past.
People that enjoy old time radio would enjoy that movie.

pat

{{/ Hey, it's "Star Wars," /

Well, no, it isn't. That's the problem.}} Crimson HD


Funny, that's how it's being billed.


{{ In fact, it appears to be a lavishly produced episode of Battlestar Galactica. }}


And how is that so much different from Star Wars?


{{/ OK -- a big budget production created with the
primary intent to make a lot of money./

You know, like most interesting art.}}


Big budget? I think not, nor is it really true that most "intersting art" is created with the primary intent to make "a lot of money." Most art is for sale, that is true, but it does not follow that the product is created to maximize money.


{{/ We ain't talking art with a
capital "A" here -- it's not like he's mucking up "Citizen Kane" or
"Moby Dick." /

Yeah, I think it is like he's mucking up "Citizen Kane." He's created a diluting prequel to an acknowledged movie classic.}}


Well, it's "classic" in the sense of being very popular, but that's all. I guess we just have different ideas about what makes a good film.


{{ You might actually argue that Star Wars is more of a classic than Kane, even if not as technically influential or self consciously arty.}}


I wouldn't want to be seen trying, though.

{{ SW certainly has a greater generational defining quality to it, like the Beatles, or something. Woodstock, what have you.}}


Oh, no, we're back to "The Breakfast Club" as a classic! <g>

Anyway, Woodstock was a classic event, but it does not seem to have been a classic concert from a musical perspective.


{{So an awful lot of people were like "huh?" on the 19th. Really kids, it stinks on ice, does PM. }}


I'll take your word for it -- most SW fans I've talked to had the same reaction.


Think we can get RheeRhee over here to argue that nobody could possibly see any racial connotations in JarJar Binks?

Darth Maul, however, is the main villian in PM, and is nowhwere near as threatening or compelling as Darth Vader, or even Jaba the Hutt, the real villians of the first movies.

I don't think so. The movie is called "The Phantom Menace," not "Darth Maul." If anything, Darth Sidious or Senator (soon to be Emperor) Palpatine is the "main villain."

Big Iron:
I'll take your word for it -- most SW fans I've talked to had the same reaction.

Huh. Most I've talked to have felt exactly the opposite.

Think we can get RheeRhee over here to argue that nobody could possibly see any racial connotations in JarJar Binks?

I won't argue "couldn't possibly," but I will argue "Anybody who does is pretty foolish." (See my comments in the "Bloodless Star Wars" thread under General Questions.)

As far as the fact that Darth Maul wasn't given and lines and wasn't developed as a character, no kidding. None of the characters were developed. They were all walking stereotypes. In addition to that, the scenes wern't even developed properly, and the continuity of the movie sucked. Furthermore, the way they reexplained
the force, was bs. It was obviously a product of a society that needs a quantifyable answer to everything.

I have to disagree on the action part though, I thought the fight scenes were good. Sure, some things were a bit "dancy" but most fightscenes where skill is the emphasis are like that. Also, the pace of the fight and the way it was fought were realistic. Take for example, the fact that when the Jedi outnumbered Darth Maul, they actually attacked at the same time, and Darth Maul was defensive. When Darth seperated the two, he got alot more aggressive. It made sence.

Overall, it was an entertainin movie, but it had so much potential that it fell very, very short on.
Larsy

This, "The Phantom Menace didn't have enough character development" is starting to drive me crazy. I would agree that no character development took place in the movie. I would also go as far to say that no character development has taken place in any of the star wars movies. They have all had wooden dialogue. Cheesy surprise (Did "I am your Father" strike you as anything but cheese?)
I can understand why people didn't like it, but the underdeveloped character issue is sort of silly, I believe.
I am not knocking the original movies, just saying these aren't pieces of fine art, they are fun fun movies.
Most of the people I have talked to (myself included, I often talk to myself) have liked The Phantom Menace alot. A few had some reservations about the kiddy stuff in it, but I mark that up as not remembering what it was like to be 11.

pat

I think Cheese actually got this one right. Think about it. Everyone knows that Lucas always intended Luke to be him. Hamil admitted to basing his characterization on this; even the names are the same (Luke S.::Lukas). At the time of the first trilogy, Lukas was a young, idealistic, unknown filmmaker, who had to fight with the evil Hollywood studios to have hios dream realized. Now he's making a trilogy about more recent events in his life. How he became seduced by the dark side and turned into the very power-hungry, ego-driven sort of producer he hated. Get it?

Well; by that argument, if it's authentic and heartfelt, then the story is gonna be great. :) Lucas certainly has to identify with Anakin to write him credibly plunging to the Dark Side, so if he feels a modicum of guilt over the way the SW franchise has taken off, we're headed towards kick-ass episodes II and III. :)

All I know about the movie is what I've seen on TV - it's sort of hard to avoid - and I'm not likely to see PM anytime soon. Lucas lost me at movie 3, episode whatever with those damn Ewoks and the cutesy pie ending. But I'd like to ask a question, if I may.

Am I the only one who thinks this Jar Jar Binks character is just Roger Rabbit in 3D?

No.

The movie should be called Star Whores to reflect it's commercialization.

Melin writes:Let's balance this, please, with the information that Lucas made the film available last week to a dozen charities across the country for pre-opening day fundraising efforts.

I suppose one could argue that this was a generous move, Melin, but just how kind was it really to use one of the worst films ever made to help charity? I wonder how many people, on their way out of the movie, thought about asking for their money back?

PapaBear writes: [quote]STAR WARS (that is what the 1977 movie was called when it was first released) ... absolutely DID NOT have Episode IV on it though. ... I'm positive about the absence of "Episode IV", though, because everybody in the theater would have gone, "Huh? Say what?"[quote]
Funny, Papa: that's exactly what me and my friends did say when we saw the subtitle "Episode IV" back then during its first release! It was there, alright, Papa... No question.

Let me try that again... PapaBear writes:STAR WARS (that is what the 1977 movie was called when it was first released) ... absolutely DID NOT have Episode IV on it though. ... I'm positive about the absence of "Episode IV", though, because everybody in the theater would have gone, "Huh? Say what?" Funny, Papa: that's exactly what me and my friends did say when we saw the subtitle "Episode IV" way back then during its first release!

It was there, alright, Papa... No question.

CFQWEST wrote:I saw STAR WARS during its initial release in 1977 at least three times. It was not "Episode IV." Everyone who remembers seeing "Episode IV" must be remembering a subsequent re-release, after EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Nonsense, CFQ: I, too saw it 3 or 4 times in its initial run, and "Episode IV" was certainly there all along. I distinctly remember pointing it out to other people in the theater, most of which replied something on the order of: "obviously there's gonna be more sequels!"

And when at the end of the film Darth Vader ever-so-significantly escapes in order to fight again another day, the lessons of this "Episode IV" foreshadowing were complete.

Also, I bought the very first videotape release of the film (well before Episode V) immediately when it went on sale -- it was on BetaMax, just to show how long ago this was -- and "Episode IV" was right there in all its glory, exactly as it was in the theater. Want me to post a screen shot?

Sorry, ambushed, but you're simply wrong (and what do you expect a video to prove vis a vis what appeared on theater screens, anyway?):

"Q 001: Why does it say Episode IV in the scroll-text at the beginning of Star Wars, Episode V in The Empire Strikes Back and Episode VI in Return of the Jedi? Did the Episode IV sub-head appear in the original theatrical release or was it added at a later
date?

Answer: The Star Wars saga as originally conceived by Lucas was much too large to be made into a single film or even a single
trilogy so Lucas structured his ideas into three trilogies.

He decided to make the middle trilogy (Episodes IV, V and VI)first because he believed it had the greatest chance of being
a theatrical success.

An interesting point is that the "Chapter IV: A New Hope" sub-title did not appear until the 1979 re-release of the movie.
Randal Schwartz (merlyn@romulus.reed.edu) says the following about the '79 release:

That was the one with the extended trailer for ESB, which came out the following summer. So the order was:
summer of '77: SW [no IV]
summer of '78: re-release of SW [no IV]
(but Westgate was still playing it)
summer of '79: retitled SW with IV, ESB trailer
summer of '80: ESB
The reference to "Westgate" was that the Westgate theatre (just a few blocks from where I am typing this) was *still*
playing it. They set the record worldwide for the longest continuous run for SW [sans IV], something like 79 weeks.

So, naturally, it wasn't a "re-release" for summer of '78. "

Well, pldennison, it sure does look like I was wrong! My apologies to all. I guess it's time to consider turning myself over to professionals on an inpatient basis!

Whaddya think? False Memory Syndrome?

A quote from Lucas from before the movie was released in '77:
" I wasted four years of my life cruising like the kids in American Grafitti and now I'm on an intergalactic dream of heroism. In Star Wars I'm telling the story of me."

Col. Sanders passed away a long time ago.

ambushed, I think it's BSS ("Biggs Scene Syndrome"). Way back when, the "Star Wars Storybook," published for kids in '77, contained stills and dialogue from a cut scene in which Luke sees his friend Biggs on Tatooine. You'd be amazed how many people are absolutely convinced that they saw this scene in the theater, even though it has neve appeared in any cut of the movie, not even the "Special Edition." The scene where he sees Biggs again in the Rebel hangar waws restored, though.

I remember that Storybook with the Biggs scene too. I was 8 when "Star Wars - A New Hope" came out in 1977, and the first novel I read was the novelization of the movie. I also remember asking my mom why it was called Episode IV when we saw the movie (it was early September 1977 - I had started school earlier that week and was excited about my R2D2 binder and Chewbacca lunchbox - talk about target marketing). Another interesting note was that the first edition of the Marvel comics adaptation of ANH had the scene with Jabba and Han at the Millenium Falcon. Jabba was drawn with some funky tentacles coming out of his head, not his now familiarly corpulent shape. Another interesting thing I remember from the Marvel comic adaptations was when Empire Strikes Back was released, the comic preceded it by a couple of weeks. But the Yoda in the original comic didn't look anything like him in the movie (purple, much thinner). I got a later version with the correct Yoda about 2 months later. It seems that Marvel couldn't draw the real Yoda for Lucas' fear that his appearance would give away the plot of the movie!

As far as Episode I, I liked the pod race and the junk dealer. And it was way better overall than the last Star Trek. Which really isn't saying much.

Back to the main point of this thread...

Purely a theory...

Let's just suppose you had this idea about, say... a convoluted story set on many different worlds about a mystical religion and featuring characters with family trees that would be at home in any Tennessee town (no flames, I'm a Tenn. Vol anyway), all taking place a long time ago. Plus, as an added feature, say that the movie-making technology involved is in its infancy (some might say even preconceived technology), making the movie as planned theoretically impossible to make. Also, this script, as planned would be difficult to pair down into a ten-hour movie.
Now, suppose you take this idea to every SINGLE production company in your town (say, for example, Hollywood) and basically you're told you're f*cking nuts for even thinking this might work. You're told the ideas are too flaky, it'd be impossible to make, nobody established would make it (look what "Barbarella" - and a few ill-considered comments about a contemporary police-action - did to Jane Fonda's career) and besides, who ever heard of a sci-fi film (besides "2001" - a fluke - barely enough to break even) that made any kind of money!!!

Flash forward 20 years. You made the story work. The plot is relatively intact (no small feat in Hollywood) to your basic idea. The special effects techniques you created for these movies have revolutionalized the industry. These movies are quite possibly the most recognized story in the entire world. They're not high-concept ideas, but they're popular. These movies grossed an incredible amount of money (remember, sci-fi movies NEVER make money). These movies have made some actors' careers, and ruined others by the recognizability of the characters. You have created a cultural phenomenon. This idea has become your life.

You have huge corporations interested in this idea (which you were told would never work, remember) and willing to commit amazing resources to promote this idea.

What are you going to do? You're already a multi-millionaire. What's a couple hundred million more? Especially for an idea nobody (who are your peers now) thought would work? Especially if they can tie into a current cultural phenomenon, a tiny doggie that talks sooooo cute... Did I mention there's money involved? Every little item that's manufactured (not necessarily SOLD) you get a profit from. It's just an idea that sprung from your head.

I think I know what I'd do.

Besides, Colonel Sanders holding a lightsaber, battling against mindless robotic armies serving an organization bent on tyranny might be a subtle reference to a war from a long time ago, featuring soldiers clad in Blue and Gray... ;) ;) ;)

Or maybe not...

------------------

I'm not sure if you guys noticed this, but hardly anyone in real life gives a crap if it was subtitled "A New Hope" or Episode IV or "Bobba Fett's Day Off"- it's somewhat disturbing (to me, anyway) how much passion is spent on four moderately amusing movies that featured good special effects and appealing, easily recognizable/merchandisible characters. When I was a kid, I remember an ad campaign for a horror movie that had the tag line "You'll keep telling yourself it's only a movie." Some of you folks need to remember that, and not stroke out over the details.

It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...It's only a movie...

------------------

Yeah ... a GREAT movie!

George Lucas is a whore? Do you know this from personal experience? heh heh

Is it prostitution when whores sleep together? Have you seen that ridiculous, rapping, bouncing "Colonel Sanders" cartoon KFC is using? God, the real Colonel must be turning over in his grave. There was no dignity left there to be lost through merchandising; there was no way the non sequitor could be worsened.

Colonel Sanders tasted the mass-produced mashed potatoes and gravy. He asked, "How can anyone eat this goddamned slop?" The company replaied that Sanders'own recipe was so intricate it would have been prohibitively expensive for KFC to market it with his chicken.

First, for some background on George Lucas,
check out this mailbag question/answer:

www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mstarwar.html

Second, we live one town over from George Lucas' hometown. He has been incredibly generous to the city of Modesto, CA, renovating one of its historical movie houses with the latest in technology (and THX Sound) so we could all get together with his classmates and celebrate the 25th anniversary of "American Graffiti."
He has been very accessible to our local press (my husband works for the local rag)and is truly a philanthropic man. He perfers not to make a big deal about it because he doesn't think it's right to do so.

As to "Menace Merchandising," blame the media and the masses ... but when it comes to that Anakin Skywalker comforter on my son's bed, there's no one to blame but me. :)



------------------
Tammy
"May your song always be sung."

I have to say that the only thing that I really don't like is all the Taco Bell, Pepsico., etc. stuff. But I do really want an r2d2 cup. One of those with the legs. They're so cool.

Anyway, I like all the stuff. I own a lightsaber. I want Star Wars sheets and I saw this really cool r2d2 stufftie that makes beeping noises when you squeeze it. I own many Phantom Menace posters already. I really want this cool Darth Vader phone.

I'm just saying all this because I'm a teenage girl, one of the age groups one would imagine that would not be hit as hard. I like the stuff. I think that Lucas is just giving the public what it wants. I mean, $20 at Target for a lightsaber really isn't all that expensive.


------------------
Die, foul crouton!