Dyslexia

[Boy Scout11]

Dyslexia, it's Causes and possible Manifestations, By Jim Ryan

I will be kind of brief.

My wife has a daughter. That daughter is right handed, naturally, from what I know. She married a left handed man. They had 3 children, 2 were girls and one was a boy. The father spent a whole lot more time teaching his son than he did his daughters from what I observed, in speach and action. This young man grew up as a left handed individual. He is the second oldest. The first child born was a girl, and she presents as a naturally right handed, individual, that is very coordinated, very strong, and very intelligent. She is an A student. This family started out in New York, so my wife and I, had little contact, until the family moved to Florida. Once settled here, they had a new baby girl, I call her shugie. She presented as being what we all consider as normal. We had fairly close contact with the family, from there on out, until the parents seperated. At that time, they came to live with us.

I took much time and pleasure, in teaching shugie about everything I could, in the best possible terms. At that time, she was just starting to read, write, and color. Coloring and many other things supplied by her loving grandmother, my wife.

At that time, I started to notice that when reaching for things, there seemed to be a slight hesitation in respect to which hand she should grasp an object. I also noticed that when she wrote some of her letters, they were written backward.

I also observed how shugie would write right handed, but she positioned the paper as a left handed person would. Since I observed these situations in their formative stages I decided not to make drastic changes and instead, I started to get her to learn to write with her left hand, and perform other things with her left hand, in an effort to help balance her body and mind conservatively. I carefully told her of some of the things I saw and why, so that she could understand what was probably caused by a right handed mother that loved her very much, teaching a naturally left handed child, without realizing her daughter was born right hemisphere dominate, or in other terms, left handed. When reffering to right hemisphere and left hemisphere, I am speaking of brain function. Right hemisphere dominance, usually manifests itself in left handed children, while left hemisphere dominance, manifests itself as right handed children.

In the vast majority taught, as we consider sound teaching, left handed children, tend to base their balance on the right side of their body, while right handed children tend to balance their body, on the left side.

The strongest power for the right handed individual, comes from the right side, as the left side stabilizes and retains posture, for the needed power to be supplied, to the extent the individual wishes. These same principles apply in kind to the opposing handed person.

Now, if someone were to teach a normally left handed child, without realizing that child was left handed, the teacher or parent, would be confusing normal body mechanics, and creating instibility in balance, form, and power, causing the child to be forever off balance, seemingly uncoordinated and a loss of physical strength as well.

Some of the consequences from this situation, will undoubtedly lead to differing emotional stresses thruout the childs lifetime, probably creating many physical, mental, and emotional stress, for their entire lifetime.

I once stumbled onto a person speaking on cluster headaches, and they said the medical community did not understand what was causing them. When considering what I believe, I think it possible that cluster headaches could bear a connection to dyslexia.

The study I would suggest to help prove, or disprove a link to cluster headaches and what I present on Dyslexia, is to question all the affected persons within those families, to see if there were both right and left handed lineages.

Right and left handed lineages may alternate with each new generation, or possibly skip several generations and then, suddenly appear.

This is a shortened and inadiquate version of how this should be written, but this is on the spur of the moment.

One of the first things to test for each child born, when they first start grasping, is to make special notice of which hand the child normally starts to grasp with and closely observe over time, if pursuit of their naturally dominate instints.

Only mothers will know if what I present below, with dyslexic children happened to them.

Boy Scout,--annonamous sends this within his email from the Dyslex association.

"Bunches of cells beneath the surface of the brain have been detected which lie on the surface in the brain of a non-dyslexic person. These groups of cells ought to have moved to the brain's surface at the time when the brain was developing in the fetus, but failed to make the journey."

Boy Scout,--At what time in the childrens lives are these tested for?

If tested after being taught to be opposing handed, the child may sleep on the oppossing natural side of the body.

Scientists may not have considered that since we have a favored side of the brain and body, we all may need to sleep on a certain side of the body more, so that those cells migrate properly.

Children taught to use the opposing side of the body may not sleep in the proper manner because of the confusion, causing these cells not to migrate in the more severe cases.

While mine is but thoery, it would be nice to see some testing done for them.


It is just possible, that if what I say is true above and we have that dominate side in sleep, it may be possible that in some cases, if the right handed mother sleeps on the opposing side as the fetus, it could possibly cause the mother a lot of restless nights due to the baby moving and kicking, while she tries to force herself to sleep on her natural side.

I would suggest if a mother has a lot of restless nites, that she switch her normal sleeping side, and see if that helps, if their is lefthandedness in the family, and vice versa.

It is possible that some mothers naturally sleep on their opposing side because the child is so restless and they figured it out all by themselves.
Mothers who are Dyslexic, may or may not tend to sleep on the right or wrong side, and if they have a baby, the confusion set up by the mothers own sleep may intensify within the next generation.

This is unlikely, but none of us really knows.
It would be nice to know if the cells spoken of can migrate partially, or wheather they always remain either fully under, or fully on top. Can these cells move to the edge?
Are these cells on opposing sides of the brain, in right and lefthanded children?

If so, it would make sense that like air bubbles trapped under a cup, if that cup is tilted in the correct manner, the air bubbles will rise to the top.
This is but theory.

TEST--TEST--TEST

[Ethilrist]

That's brief? Holy crud. Don't make any long posts, dude. :dubious:

[Boy Scout11]

For the subject I present, this is very short, but I do understand. Thanks for the reply.

[monstro]

While mine is but thoery, it would be nice to see some testing done for them.

Nitpick: You don't have a theory. You have a hypothesis.

[Boy Scout11]

Nitpick: You don't have a theory. You have a hypothesis.

Theory-- An idea formed by speculation. Thanks anyway.

[Boy Scout11]

Nitpick: You don't have a theory. You have a hypothesis.

Looking further, I see we are both correct to a degree.

[Aldebaran]

I'm dyslexic and speaking with this experience I am rather convinced that your ideas about possible causes have no foundation but wild guessing.

If I read this well, I should be forcibly righthanded while being lef-handed and this was then the cause that I developped dyslexia?
Sorry, but I am lefthanded and nobody ever forced me to switch hands by doing anything, although I learned to use my right hand for some cultural influenced tasks. Hence I can do these things with both hands. I use my left hand when I don't have to pay attention and I use my right hand when I'm in public/have guests.

My mother was also lefhanded and I remember that she insisted that I should be teached to write with my left hand because she was as a child forced to learn writing and other skills with her right hand.
She didn't have dyslexia though.
Yet a family member of my mother - a natural right handed - was dyslexic.


Salaam. A

[ultrafilter]

Theory-- An idea formed by speculation. Thanks anyway.

Not in science. The word has a different meaning there. See this document (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html) for details.

But in science, "theory" means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed."

[blowero]

Hasn't this right/left hemisphere dominance theory been pretty much discredited? And this idea that your child will be right or left handed based on how much you love them - seems dubious. And even if you do buy into the right/left dominance theory, is there any evidence at all that forced learning of right or left handedness has any effect on which hemisphere is dominant, (let alone curing dyslexia)? Seems to me it would be confusing cause and effect. Many children are ambidextrous, and tend to switch hands when performing tasks. I'm not aware that this a problem requiring correction. This just sounds like more of the same misguided thinking where left-handed children were "corrected" to use their right hands, usually with negative effects on the psyche.

[Boy Scout11]

[QUOTE=Aldebaran]I'm dyslexic and speaking with this experience I am rather convinced that your ideas about possible causes have no foundation but wild guessing.

If I read this well, I should be forcibly righthanded while being lef-handed and this was then the cause that I developped dyslexia?
Sorry, but I am lefthanded and nobody ever forced me to switch hands by doing anything, although I learned to use my right hand for some cultural influenced tasks. Hence I can do these things with both hands. I use my left hand when I don't have to pay attention and I use my right hand when I'm in public/have guests.

My mother was also lefhanded and I remember that she insisted that I should be teached to write with my left hand because she was as a child forced to learn writing and other skills with her right hand.
She didn't have dyslexia though.
Yet a family member of my mother - a natural right handed - was dyslexic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You say,--If I read this well, I should be forcibly righthanded while being lef-handed and this was then the cause that I developped dyslexia?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I answer you by saying,--that is one way in which dyslexia can happen, but not the only way, just as there are mild and severe forms, of dyslexia. I would also say Salaam, that because someone teaches a child to be left handed when they were born right handed, does not necessarily mean that every child taught in such a manner, will become dyslexic. There are many mitigating circumstances, such as the age and intensity when teaching the child and wheather or not physical teaching went along with the spoken and wrote properties.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would ask you Salaam,--Do you play sports?

[Boy Scout11]

Try something for me Salaam, if you will. Place your right hand over your right eye and type an answer to this question, with just your left forefinger.

Do you know for sure your mother is lefthanded and if so, how?

Thank you.

[monstro]

Looking further, I see we are both correct to a degree.

"Theory" for "idea" is scientifically incorrect (so we aren't both correct to a degree). A theory is one or more related hypothesis which have been supported by many tests. I'm being nitpicky, but since the OP is framed as a scientific discussion, we need to use the right terminology when discussing your ideas.

It is not a put down in any way to say that you have a hypothesis, not a theory. It only makes you seem more brilliant when you use the right words.

The problem is that you have no data that support your claim. I'm not even sure you have observations. Is shugie dyslexic? How do we connect her ambidextriousness to brain damage? Your OP does not contain all of the information needed for us to come to the same conclusion that you have.

The OP made me think of a book I read about seven months ago, about a little boy diagnosed with brain damage. His parents, desperate for a cure, consulted a iconoclastic doctor who specialized in patterning (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/104/5/1149), which is a "theory" similar, but not identical, to yours. The idea is that brains need to follow a specific pathway in development, and that children who are brain damaged (mentally retarded, motor impaired, learning disabled, etc.) skipped important neurologial steps as they developed. The establishment of a dominant hemisphere, according to the "theory", is one of these steps. Treatments involve forcing the children to go through the skipped steps by putting them in a regiment similar to the phases babies go through (i.e.g, creeping, crawling, etc.). Controlled experiments has not supported the efficacy of patterning, and it's considered to be quackery by many in the pediactric community.

I'm actually curious about this topic because my mother describes me as left-handed toddler, even though I'm right-handed now. My nursery school apparently "switched" me, as the legend goes. I don't feel inherently left-handed, but people often think I am because of the crazy way I hold my pencil. And I'm unusually clumsy (a doctor told me I have a mild case of CP, which I don't believe).

[monstro]

Try something for me Salaam

"Salaam" is a greeting. It's Aldeberan's signature.

I'm turning into one of those posters I hate! Apologies!

[Aldebaran]

[
I answer you by saying,--that is one way in which dyslexia can happen, but not the only way, just as there are mild and severe forms, of dyslexia.

I don not believe for one second that forcing a child to use the wrong hand can "cause" dyslexia.
I have a rather severe form which intervenes at the most unexpected moments. When it intervenes with writing and reading, the causes are evidently being tired, being in the need to concentrate for longer periods, needing to swithc between languages etc... (calculating is always limited to 1+1= -3). I don't have that much problems though when using languages that don't have Roman (Latin) script.

I would also say Salaam, that because someone teaches a child to be left handed when they were born right handed, does not necessarily mean that every child taught in such a manner, will become dyslexic.

I read that you were talking about left handed children being teached to be right handed. The family member of my mother was a natural right handed, he was not teached to be left handed, yet he was a born dyslexic be it in a much lesser degree then I seem to be.

There are many mitigating circumstances, such as the age and intensity when teaching the child and wheather or not physical teaching went along with the spoken and wrote properties.

I could read Arabic at a very young age. They didn't discover the dyslexia until I was about seven and started to learn reading other languages, written in Roman script.
I don't know what you mean with "physical teaching".

About sports: yes I do some sports.

Salaam. A
(this means "peace" :) It is not my name although as anyone here can witness: I am extrermely harmless completely innocent.)

[Boy Scout11]

Hasn't this right/left hemisphere dominance theory been pretty much discredited? And this idea that your child will be right or left handed based on how much you love them - seems dubious. And even if you do buy into the right/left dominance theory, is there any evidence at all that forced learning of right or left handedness has any effect on which hemisphere is dominant, (let alone curing dyslexia)? Seems to me it would be confusing cause and effect. Many children are ambidextrous, and tend to switch hands when performing tasks. I'm not aware that this a problem requiring correction. This just sounds like more of the same misguided thinking where left-handed children were "corrected" to use their right hands, usually with negative effects on the psyche.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hasn't this right/left hemisphere dominance theory been pretty much discredited? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would say no, unless you can prove differently, because I'm pretty sure I can lend credibility to that end. I want to hear how you discredit it first. Thanks

[monstro]

I would say no, unless you can prove differently, because I'm pretty sure I can lend credibility to that end. I want to hear how you discredit it first. Thanks

Have you done a literature search to see if there have been studies that support your claim? This is how you can lend credibility to your argument. Posting about shugie does not do anything for us at all.

[Aldebaran]

Place your right hand over your right eye and type an answer to this question, with just your left forefinger.

this is a bit hrad bceause i alxays rely pn blind typing when writinh inb lati, characters on non latin printde keyboard.

Do you know for sure your mother is lefthanded and if so, how?

(Back to blind typing). Because that is the very reason why I was raised as left handed child in a Muslim society/culture, where the emphasis for a lot of things is put on the use of your right hand.


Salaam. A

[Boy Scout11]

Have you done a literature search to see if there have been studies that support your claim? This is how you can lend credibility to your argument. Posting about shugie does not do anything for us at all.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shugie was where I first started to see how dyslexia presented itself in her. Doctors and scientists either have to see things happen to others or experience it themselves, even before an opinion can be formed. To that end, I offered the things I saw directly relating to the specific situation, in her. I'm still waiting for you to prove left hemisphere, right hemisphere is not still relevant.

If you will excuse me for a time, I have some other things to ask of Aldebaran, thanks.

[Boy Scout11]

this is a bit hrad bceause i alxays rely pn blind typing when writinh inb lati, characters on non latin printde keyboard.



(Back to blind typing). Because that is the very reason why I was raised as left handed child in a Muslim society/culture, where the emphasis for a lot of things is put on the use of your right hand.


Salaam. A

Thanks Aldebaran. I now see that while you are very accomplished, esp[ecially when you have so much going against you, in the form of dyslexia. What is blind typing?

I can see now, that asking you to perform the test I asked was wrong of me, because of all that you deal with.

I would ask, if you stood on just your right or left leg alone, do you balance well on just one leg?

[monstro]

Boy Scout11, has shugie have been diagnosed as dyslexic? You never said so in your post.

[Boy Scout11]

Boy Scout11, has shugie have been diagnosed as dyslexic? You never said so in your post.

No, she has not, but as all the doctors and scientists have said there is no cure, I have taken to teaching her to be ambidexterious and especially balance. She has exibited, what seems to be a mild form of dyslexia.

I wrote this piece origionally, about 3 years ago and not only did I send my thoughts to the AMA here in the states, I also sent them to 2 sites in England and Canada. About 4 months ago, there was a special on 60 minutes or 60 minutes 11, about dyslexia and some of what I wrote was included in the piece, but not all of it.

When I wrote about the cells that start out under the brain as a fetus and rose to the top of the brain in normal children, but those same cells did not rise in children with the severest form of dyslexia and my thoughts of right handed and left handed people,procreating, it is also likely, that children that are left hemisphere dominate, have those cells form and rise to the top of children that have those cells under the right side of the brain and vice versa for right hemisphere domination, which will also prove that there is right hemisphere dominance and left hemisphere dominance.

BALANCE I believe, has much, if not all, to do with those cells, along with even mild forms of Dyslexia. For instance, can those cells just rise to the edge of the brain? Can those cells rise part the way to the top of the brain and many other questions.

I believe the English investor and his doctors, presented only part of what I spoke of, so they could earn money and that is despicable.

[blowero]

I would say no, unless you can prove differently, because I'm pretty sure I can lend credibility to that end. I want to hear how you discredit it first. Thanks
I'm not trying to discredit it. I was asking a question. I have a vague recollection of it not really being a mainstream theory anymore, and I was hoping someone else in the thread could answer that. But maybe I can dig up something on the web - I'll give it a try.

[blowero]

Well, I see lots of references to hemisphere-dominance, so I must be remembering that part wrong. However, it does appear to be false that hemisphere-dominance corresponds to right or left handedness.

Don't know how great a source this is (looks like it was written by a grad student), but this site http://coe.sdsu.edu/eet/Articles/dominance/index.htm says:

There are several myths associated with hemispheric dominance. Myths related to:

Handedness - No correlation between hemispheric dominance and being right handed vs. left handed.....

[blowero]

When I wrote about the cells that start out under the brain as a fetus and rose to the top of the brain in normal children, but those same cells did not rise in children with the severest form of dyslexia and my thoughts of right handed and left handed people,procreating, it is also likely, that children that are left hemisphere dominate, have those cells form and rise to the top of children that have those cells under the right side of the brain and vice versa for right hemisphere domination, which will also prove that there is right hemisphere dominance and left hemisphere dominance.

The same site says right and left handedness is not hereditary:

Genetics - No evidence that dominance is hereditary.

[blowero]

More....

http://www.nutramed.com/brain/rightleft.htm
"A popular notion, that the dominant left hemisphere is “analytic” and the right hemisphere is “synthetic or artistic,” makes little sense and is not a good way to try to understand how the human brain works."

http://www.indiana.edu/~primate/brain.html
"This association between hand and brain captured the imaginations of researchers because it would be so useful (so easy, so non-invasive, so cheap) to study patterns of brain asymmetries by using a person's handedness as a marker for brain lateralization (direct methods involve neurosurgery, invasive drug testing, or expensive imaging techniques). I have argued, however, that many fundamental problems exist with this methodology, and advocate going back to the drawing board to work out some of these basic problems, rather than continue to embrace 19th-century methodology."

http://www.usd.edu/~ssanto/brain.html
"Brain dominance refers to a preference for using one hemisphere of the brain over the other hemisphere. The left hemisphere of the brain is rational, analytical, and verbal, while the right hemisphere is holistic and intuitive, responsive to visual imagery. Brain dominance can be assessed with the Hemispheric Mode Indicator or with the Hermann Brain Dominance Instrument.
Once very popular, this view of the brain has fallen out of favor recently due to further research showing it is not quite as clear-cut as all that."

I guess it's not clear-cut at all.

Oh, and I found a reference to this dyslexia theory, but it says it's not supported by the evidence.

http://web.intercom.es/jorgemas/cerebral.htm
"Since about 30% of left-handed persons have language located in the right or inboth hemispheres, cerebral dominance research has sometimes identified these individuals as prime candidates for dyslexia. Tests for hemispheric dominance have been conducted by noting preferences in listening, clapping, jumping, sighting with one eye, and balancing on one foot. Failure to demonstrate a decided preference for one side or the other, the theory maintains, indicates a defect in brain development wich is fully or partially responsible for dyslexia.

Solid evidence to support the cerebral dominance theory has been lacking. Most recent studies have not supported the concept that dyslexia children differ greatly from normal readers in right-hand or left-hand preferences."

[kunilou]

You don't say how old your granddaughter was when you noticed she would hesitate when reaching and write some letters backward, but I assume from the general tone that she was somewhere age 2-4.

During those years, it is well within the range of normal development for children to use either hand for tasks. It is also perfectly normal for children just learning to read and write to write letters backward -- or for that matter, to replace letters with other letters or even numerals. Children learning to read and write often confuse the letters d b p q and use them interchangably, because they all are essentially a circle with a line. Early in the developmental stage it is difficult to tell the difference between these type of mistakes and the pattern of non-recognition/misrecognition that is characteristic of dyslexia.

Even after handedness has fully asserted itself, it is common for people even with a strong preference, to use the opposite hand for some tasks. It is especially common for left-handed people, because many tools and objects are designed to favor right-handed use. You say that you are teaching your granddaughter to be ambidextrous. While you may be teaching her to perform some tasks with either hand, surely you understand that you can not "teach" handedness -- right, left or both.

You say that your granddaughter has not been diagnosed dyslexic, but that there is "no cure." Do you mean there is no cure for dyslexia in general, or that your granddaughter has been diagnosed with some other condition for which there is no cure? There are techniques which can help people deal with and compensate for dyslexia, although they are not a "cure."

When you speak of "balance" are you suggesting there is some relationship between physical balance and dyslexia? I know there is no relationship between dyslexia and general athletic ability, but perhaps you should search literature for any studies of gymnasts, who as a group have extraordinary balance.

Finally, I'm sorry, but I have no idea who or what you were talking about when you mentioned "the English investor and his doctors."

[Boy Scout11]

You direct,--"A popular notion, that the dominant left hemisphere is “analytic” and the right hemisphere is “synthetic or artistic,” makes little sense and is not a good way to try to understand how the human brain works."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. I would also point out that as Aldebarans people, force all people in their culture to be right handed, that seems to be wrong, especially when in many cultures, we see right and left handed people.-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------You go on to direct,--"Since about 30% of left-handed persons have language located in the right or inboth hemispheres, cerebral dominance research has sometimes identified these individuals as prime candidates for dyslexia.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say, ----as to hemisphere dominance, I believe it to be very true and the supporting factors are both right and left handedness, eye dominance and which side of the body we use for balance, while the opposing side is used for power. The cells that start out under the brain, when we are all but a fetus, rise to the top and I believe they are the determining factor in balancing the bodies and brains, mechanisims. By the way, in medicine, there will always be exceptions to the rule. When you mention both hemispheres as to language, that is also an indication that the balance within the brain is odd, or has been directed to both hemispheres.

[monstro]

I say, ----as to hemisphere dominance, I believe it to be very true and the supporting factors are both right and left handedness, eye dominance and which side of the body we use for balance, while the opposing side is used for power. The cells that start out under the brain, when we are all but a fetus, rise to the top and I believe they are the determining factor in balancing the bodies and brains, mechanisims. By the way, in medicine, there will always be exceptions to the rule. When you mention both hemispheres as to language, that is also an indication that the balance within the brain is odd, or has been directed to both hemispheres.

I'm going to initiate you into the club.

Cite?

[Boy Scout11]

You don't say how old your granddaughter was when you noticed she would hesitate when reaching and write some letters backward, but I assume from the general tone that she was somewhere age 2-4.

During those years, it is well within the range of normal development for children to use either hand for tasks. It is also perfectly normal for children just learning to read and write to write letters backward -- or for that matter, to replace letters with other letters or even numerals. Children learning to read and write often confuse the letters d b p q and use them interchangably, because they all are essentially a circle with a line. Early in the developmental stage it is difficult to tell the difference between these type of mistakes and the pattern of non-recognition/misrecognition that is characteristic of dyslexia.

Even after handedness has fully asserted itself, it is common for people even with a strong preference, to use the opposite hand for some tasks. It is especially common for left-handed people, because many tools and objects are designed to favor right-handed use. You say that you are teaching your granddaughter to be ambidextrous. While you may be teaching her to perform some tasks with either hand, surely you understand that you can not "teach" handedness -- right, left or both.

You say that your granddaughter has not been diagnosed dyslexic, but that there is "no cure." Do you mean there is no cure for dyslexia in general, or that your granddaughter has been diagnosed with some other condition for which there is no cure? There are techniques which can help people deal with and compensate for dyslexia, although they are not a "cure."

When you speak of "balance" are you suggesting there is some relationship between physical balance and dyslexia? I know there is no relationship between dyslexia and general athletic ability, but perhaps you should search literature for any studies of gymnasts, who as a group have extraordinary balance.

Finally, I'm sorry, but I have no idea who or what you were talking about when you mentioned "the English investor and his doctors."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very good, she was 4 and yes, I have been told that before, but she has eye trouble, causing the need for glasses, she seems uncoordinated, she was turning her writing paper as a lefty was, which was probably a learned trait from either her dad or brother and to this day, she still has trouble with balance and power. While all this could be normal and not be dyslexia, she was the reason for my look into the world of dyslexia.

As to you saying, that we cannot teach someone handedness, I would at least say it can be very much influenced and even probable, that a righty teaching a normal lefty can create many problems, such as the simple idea that she was taught to turn the paper as a lefty when very little, if she is a lefty. It is also a fact, that if a righty teaches a lefty the balance is on the left side and the bodies power is on the right, when the left handed persons balance and power are directly opposed.

No, she has no other disorder that we know of.

As to balance, yes, I believe that the cells under the brain at birth are what focuses the balance within the body and brains mechanisims, almost exclusively. Gymnasts have learned and practiced balance for many years. It is not an inheirant trait. Even dyslexics can be taught physical balance and while there will always be exceptions to the rule, it will set up even more strain for the dyslexic athlete.

Below is another piece I wrote about dyslexia---

It is very likely that some people with milder forms of dyslexia create more connections within the brain.

I'm willing to bet that because of the many factors involved, dyslexic individuals that are pressed very hard, develop what is known as cluster headaches, because they overdevelop the connections within the brain and possibly create a feedback in many ways, eye strain being one of the major factors.

Some or most of these people will be brilliant in many ways.
A recent test was done on children, where they read a whole lot more books than normal and then they were subjected to a form of brain scan, which showed there were a lot more connections made within the brain.

Now, if we think about dyslexics, they are born thinking in somewhat of an inverse way, so they have to think and work twice as had to come to the levels other children in their classes do, or they may be kept back.

The harsher the dyslexic problems, the harder the person has to work to stay at grade level, which will create more thinking, reading and studying, to accomplish equality. This can lead to an overload of connections within the brain and when these people come under a lot of stress, it usually creates tremendous eye strain that creates a sort of overload.

The above is why dyslexics within the milder forms become more creative. They look at things from two different ways all the time.

[Boy Scout11]

I'm going to initiate you into the club.

Cite?

Cite what, someone elses web site that can't prove what they say? I simply offer new thinking and ask that it be disproven and if it cannot be disproven, that it be looked into, by professionals in that field.

[monstro]

Cite what, someone elses web site that can't prove what they say? I simply offer new thinking and ask that it be disproven and if it cannot be disproven, that it be looked into, by professionals in that field.

It is up to you, the one who has all the ideas, to convince us that your argument has merits. You have offered us no data, no readings, no anecdotes (other than shugie) that support your claims. It is simply not enough to say you have ideas. You did not just wake up one day believing that hemisphere dominance and dyslexia are related. I'm asking you to produce the background info that has brought you to this conclusion. If you don't have background info, I'd suggest you'd get some. Scientists don't like it when people challenge their conclusions simply based on personal feelings and "theories". They like data and facts.

There are people here who want to learn. They are willing to hear you out. Where can we learn more about this fetal cell migration stuff you speak of? Is this something that you're concocted yourself, or is this a widely accepted concept?

[Boy Scout11]

It is up to you, the one who has all the ideas, to convince us that your argument has merits. You have offered us no data, no readings, no anecdotes (other than shugie) that support your claims. It is simply not enough to say you have ideas. You did not just wake up one day believing that hemisphere dominance and dyslexia are related. I'm asking you to produce the background info that has brought you to this conclusion. If you don't have background info, I'd suggest you'd get some. Scientists don't like it when people challenge their conclusions simply based on personal feelings and "theories". They like data and facts.

There are people here who want to learn. They are willing to hear you out. Where can we learn more about this fetal cell migration stuff you speak of? Is this something that you're concocted yourself, or is this a widely accepted concept?

When I first started writing about dyslexia on another web site, I was challenged by a person from a dyslexic organization, where he posed the cell migration and explained that the most serious of dyslexics did not have these cells rise to the top of the brain as in normal children. He said that when this happened, those children could not function enough and had to be cared for all their lives.

I have a favored side to sleep on, do you?

[spingears]

GUSST;

Wuth unturmenuble post leek urn opee uns shude be payng 2 heve usns reed em.

bee a mumbr gust nut fer nly a pitnce.

[Boy Scout11]

I arrived at cell migration and its reasoning, thru a favored side in sleep and given enough time as a fetus, sleeping on the favored or correct side, would be, that the cells under the brain, need time to rise as a fetus and that those cells rise in stages, hence my questions to the medical community, can those cells rise to the edge of the brain or rise partially on top of the brain, as well as many other questions.

If I am correct about this one point, and that is, are the cells spoken of, on one side of the brain for a right handed child and on the opposing side for left handed children? If so, that in itself, proves right and left hemisphere, dominance.

[Boy Scout11]

GUSST;

Wuth unturmenuble post leek urn opee uns shude be payng 2 heve usns reed em.

bee a mumbr gust nut fer nly a pitnce.

They should pay me. LOL-LOL-LOL

[Joe Random]

I arrived at cell migration and its reasoning, thru a favored side in sleep and given enough time as a fetus, sleeping on the favored or correct side, would be, that the cells under the brain, need time to rise as a fetus and that those cells rise in stagesThe problem with this is that cells in the body don't "rise" like bubbles in a glass of beer. Bubbles rising against gravity is a result of their density in comparison to the density of the medium in which they are embedded. However, the brain isn't a liquid medium that is prone to embedded objects rising. Just look at the opposite case, of people involved in accidents that result in foreign objects being embedded in their brain. Consider the story about a man who had had three sewing needles stuck in his brain for 29 years (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-03/05/content_312206.htm). Metal is quite a bit denser than brain tissue, and 29 years is a long time. If the idea of something rising like bubbles in the brain were valid, then these needles would have sunk to the base of the man's brain over the years. However, the needles were still embedded close to the skull.

[Boy Scout11]

The problem with this is that cells in the body don't "rise" like bubbles in a glass of beer. Bubbles rising against gravity is a result of their density in comparison to the density of the medium in which they are embedded. However, the brain isn't a liquid medium that is prone to embedded objects rising. Just look at the opposite case, of people involved in accidents that result in foreign objects being embedded in their brain. Consider the story about a man who had had three sewing needles stuck in his brain for 29 years (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-03/05/content_312206.htm). Metal is quite a bit denser than brain tissue, and 29 years is a long time. If the idea of something rising like bubbles in the brain were valid, then these needles would have sunk to the base of the man's brain over the years. However, the needles were still embedded close to the skull.

In your first sentence, you say,--The problem with this is that cells in the body don't "rise" like bubbles in a glass of beer.

Then tell us, how do those cells that are under the brain in the fetus, rise to the top of the brain, as found in normal children, but remain underneath in children with the severest forms of dyslexia?

[Joe Random]

Then tell us, how do those cells that are under the brain in the fetus, rise to the top of the brain, as found in normal children, but remain underneath in children with the severest forms of dyslexia?What makes you think that they do? Could you provide a citation for that information?

[Boy Scout11]

I believe there is no other way for those cells to rise, then as bubbles in a glass of beer. They sure can't jump up there. I would also say, that as the cells rise at their natural rate and if correct, as the cells dominate balance, as the cells rise properly, they could very well act as a signal for the connections within the brain to begin and even act as a guide for those connections, from their points of origion, to their specific regions of the brain.

[Boy Scout11]

As the body has balance and cannot act without it, the body must have sleep. With that as a partial guide, the body should have a favored side in sleep, which NO ONE ELSE HAS OFFERED, as well as much that I have offered on this and other subjects and that as the fetus naturally sleeps on its favored side, which if correct, the cells spoken of will be on the opposing side, those cells have time to move to the edge of the brain and rise to the top. Nature provides. If the mother is right handed and the fetus is left handed as say the dad and the mother being right handed naturally sleeps on her favored side, that would be in direct conflict with the needs of the child, which can and in cases, will either slow or stop the ascention of the cells, for which, the fetus will probably give the mother many sleepless nights.

Now, if the mother figures out that sleeping on her normal side is not working and she turns to the opposing side and gives the fetus a chance, she may be able to have many better nites sleep and the child may turn out fine.

[Joe Random]

I believe there is no other way for those cells to rise, then as bubbles in a glass of beer.I think you misunderstood me. On what do you base your assertion that there is a group of cells that moves toward the surface of the brain during the child's development, and which is further below the surface in children with severe dyslexia? I have to admit that I have never heard of any such group of cells, and would like a cite showing that they actually exist.

They sure can't jump up there.Why not? And why would gravity be involved at all? When a child starts teething, teeth both rise from the lower gums, as well as lowering from the upper gums. This demonstrates that structures in the body have no need of gravity to assist them in moving around. So even if this group of cells does exist (which I'd prefer to have a cite for), there's still no reason to suspect that gravity has anything to do with it. In fact, I already told you why gravity would have no effect at all on cells in the brain (since gravity has no effect on other items in the brain which are at a different density than the rest of the brain matter, and a difference in density is the only way that gravity can make objects in a fluid environment move upward).

the body should have a favored side in sleepWhat about people who sleep on their backs?

those cells have time to move to the edge of the brain and rise to the topThis is the major flaw in your "theory". People spend more time awake than asleep, even as fairly young children. Thus these cells, were it possible for them to move around influenced by gravity in the first place (which I have demonstrated is a very suspect hypothesis), would spend more time rising to the top of the head than to either side.

I'm off to bed now, but I'll check back in tomorrow.

[DSeid]

Hoo boy.

No, cells do not rise like bubbles or sink like rocks. Cell migration is controlled by a host of factors, trophic substances, glial scaffolding, concentrations of various substances, and on and on, but not by geotropism or by density.

No, cells do not stay below in the brains of dyslexics.

No, there is no pattern of handedness different in dyslexics than in the normal reading population. But there is a difficulty in telling right from left.

There are differences in cerebellar functioning and in what parts of the brain become activated during the reading process.

As to the number of connections between neurons ... the general brain developmental strategy is to have an early period of overgrowth, often driven by experience in critical or sensitive periods, followed by a period of pruning, also driven by experience (those used are preserved and those not used are pruned.) Problems can result from interference with either process. Some forms of autism, for example, are felt to be related to a lack of the normal pruning process. But dyslexia has not been associated with these micropathologic findings.

[Boy Scout11]

I think you misunderstood me. On what do you base your assertion that there is a group of cells that moves toward the surface of the brain during the child's development, and which is further below the surface in children with severe dyslexia? I have to admit that I have never heard of any such group of cells, and would like a cite showing that they actually exist.

Why not? And why would gravity be involved at all? When a child starts teething, teeth both rise from the lower gums, as well as lowering from the upper gums. This demonstrates that structures in the body have no need of gravity to assist them in moving around. So even if this group of cells does exist (which I'd prefer to have a cite for), there's still no reason to suspect that gravity has anything to do with it. In fact, I already told you why gravity would have no effect at all on cells in the brain (since gravity has no effect on other items in the brain which are at a different density than the rest of the brain matter, and a difference in density is the only way that gravity can make objects in a fluid environment move upward).

What about people who sleep on their backs?

This is the major flaw in your "theory". People spend more time awake than asleep, even as fairly young children. Thus these cells, were it possible for them to move around influenced by gravity in the first place (which I have demonstrated is a very suspect hypothesis), would spend more time rising to the top of the head than to either side.

I'm off to bed now, but I'll check back in tomorrow.


You say,-- On what do you base your assertion that there is a group of cells that moves toward the surface of the brain during the child's development, and which is further below the surface in children with severe dyslexia?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say, ---I was told this by a dyslexic organization a long time ago and did not save the web site address, but I feel sure it is correct. If you want to know more, go to a dyslexic site and ask.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You say,--Why not? And why would gravity be involved at all?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I reply,--Do even doctors understand all within the human body? Maybe those cells have air encapsulated, that is rich in oxygen and it is replenished in ways we know nothing about. Of course, that is speculation. I'm just saying, doctors have said, they just don't know. It is also fact, that those cells rise to the top and since they can't jump there, the only way for them to get there is to rise to the surface with time and the proper head placement, for at least enough time. I simply offer new thinking on the subject, as I have on disease mutation, heat related illness, medical research issues, having to do with testing blood in a different fashion from the spin method, metalurgy and many other things. All this and I do not even have a college degree. I did however, have a mother that taught me common sense medicine since I was old enough to speak and understand. I also proofread all her medical dictation since I was 7 to the age of 13 or 14. I also have practical knowledge and experience in quite a few fields. I speak on philosophy, psychology and more. Go to the thread about testing all of one state for mental illness and look at what I wrote and then ask yourself why, no one could answer to what I wrote.

I am not a know it all, but I do have many questions and many of my own answers. I don't depend on other web sites to answer for me or offer my arguements for me.

[Boy Scout11]

Hoo boy.

No, cells do not rise like bubbles or sink like rocks. Cell migration is controlled by a host of factors, trophic substances, glial scaffolding, concentrations of various substances, and on and on, but not by geotropism or by density.

No, cells do not stay below in the brains of dyslexics.

No, there is no pattern of handedness different in dyslexics than in the normal reading population. But there is a difficulty in telling right from left.

There are differences in cerebellar functioning and in what parts of the brain become activated during the reading process.

As to the number of connections between neurons ... the general brain developmental strategy is to have an early period of overgrowth, often driven by experience in critical or sensitive periods, followed by a period of pruning, also driven by experience (those used are preserved and those not used are pruned.) Problems can result from interference with either process. Some forms of autism, for example, are felt to be related to a lack of the normal pruning process. But dyslexia has not been associated with these micropathologic findings.

You say,--No, cells do not rise like bubbles or sink like rocks. Cell migration is controlled by a host of factors, trophic substances, glial scaffolding, concentrations of various substances, and on and on, but not by geotropism or by density.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't believe you are a specialist in this field from another thread about testing an entire state for mental illness and I noticed, that you chose not to say a word about all that I presented on that thread and that you just kept talking about the same ignorance offered there.

As to what you offer on glial scaffolding or geotropisim, that makes good sense, but you did not answer to wheather or not those cells may or may not control balance, or if as the cells rise, wheather or not the brains connections and specific destinations of those connections are influenced by the rise and timing of those cells as I believe they control balance. You also did not reply to wheather or not those cells are on the left side of the brain for right handed children and vice versa for the left handed child.

So many unanswered questions, hoo boy.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Boy Scout11]

Furthermore doc, you cannot say for a certainteed fact, that either or both, gleal scaffolding and geotropisim don't have to have body positioning as part of the equation, nor can you guarantee, that body position cannot work against one or both. While I feel certain both of those exist, that does not prove the entire equation.

[Joe Random]

I was told this by a dyslexic organization a long time ago and did not save the web site address, but I feel sure it is correct. If you want to know more, go to a dyslexic site and ask.Here you go. From webmd.com (http://my.webmd.com/hw/parenting_and_pregnancy/te7229.asp):

What causes dyslexia is not known. However, there is strong evidence that suggests dyslexia is passed from parent to child genetically. Researchers have found that identical twins have a higher rate of dyslexia than nonidentical twins, an indication that genetic factors are involved in dyslexia.

Webmd is a fairly reputable site, and they say that the cause of dyslexia is unknown, although it appears to be genetic. Your assertion that it is caused by sleeping on the wrong side would make it environmental rather than genetic. And, honestly, your answer of "I was told this by a dyslexic organization a long time ago" doesn't carry much weight. I'll take the opinion of a reputable medical site over the opinion of some dyslexia organization whose name you can't even remember, and which may or may not be reputable at all.

Do even doctors understand all within the human body? Maybe those cells have air encapsulated, that is rich in oxygen and it is replenished in ways we know nothing about. Of course, that is speculation.No kidding. I've already shown that differeing density (such as that which would be cause by "air encapsulation") would have no effect, though.

It is also fact, that those cells rise to the top and since they can't jump thereYou have yet to show that these cells even exist. I contend that they do not. Please give a cite other than "somebody once told me so, but I don't remember who it was or why you should believe them".

the only way for them to get there is to rise to the surface with time and the proper head placementI've already debunked that. For one thing, because people spend more time standing and sitting than lying down, these fictional cells would rise to the top-center of the head, and thus lying on any particular side would have no effect whatsoever. For another, I have shown that teeth migrate to their destination both with and against gravity, thus if these fictional cells did exist (which you have failed to demonstrate, other than by saying, in essence, "someone once told me so") they would not have to be affected by gravity at all. In other words, rising against gravity would not be "the only way for them to get there", as you put it.

Go to the thread about testing all of one state for mental illness and look at what I wrote and then ask yourself why, no one could answer to what I wrote.There's a difference between "no one could" and "no one wanted to". Besides, that has nothing at all to do with this thread.

I don't depend on other web sites to answer for me or offer my arguements for me.But you should depend on other websites to verify your claims when your facts are in question. Your entire premise is based on these cells rising in the brain, yet you have not demonstrated with any believability that these cells even exist. Even so, I have given numerous reasons why sleeping on one particular side would not necessarily have any effect on these supposed cells, including the fact that objects of differing density have been demonstrated to not migrate through the brain, and the fact that, were such migration to occur, the cells would end up in the center of the top of the head, and not on any particular side.

Would you like to actually refute any of that, or, better yet back up your claims about these cells existing and being the cause for dyslexia?

[Boy Scout11]

Here you go. From webmd.com (http://my.webmd.com/hw/parenting_and_pregnancy/te7229.asp):



Webmd is a fairly reputable site, and they say that the cause of dyslexia is unknown, although it appears to be genetic. Your assertion that it is caused by sleeping on the wrong side would make it environmental rather than genetic. And, honestly, your answer of "I was told this by a dyslexic organization a long time ago" doesn't carry much weight. I'll take the opinion of a reputable medical site over the opinion of some dyslexia organization whose name you can't even remember, and which may or may not be reputable at all.

No kidding. I've already shown that differeing density (such as that which would be cause by "air encapsulation") would have no effect, though.

You have yet to show that these cells even exist. I contend that they do not. Please give a cite other than "somebody once told me so, but I don't remember who it was or why you should believe them".

I've already debunked that. For one thing, because people spend more time standing and sitting than lying down, these fictional cells would rise to the top-center of the head, and thus lying on any particular side would have no effect whatsoever. For another, I have shown that teeth migrate to their destination both with and against gravity, thus if these fictional cells did exist (which you have failed to demonstrate, other than by saying, in essence, "someone once told me so") they would not have to be affected by gravity at all. In other words, rising against gravity would not be "the only way for them to get there", as you put it.

There's a difference between "no one could" and "no one wanted to". Besides, that has nothing at all to do with this thread.

But you should depend on other websites to verify your claims when your facts are in question. Your entire premise is based on these cells rising in the brain, yet you have not demonstrated with any believability that these cells even exist. Even so, I have given numerous reasons why sleeping on one particular side would not necessarily have any effect on these supposed cells, including the fact that objects of differing density have been demonstrated to not migrate through the brain, and the fact that, were such migration to occur, the cells would end up in the center of the top of the head, and not on any particular side.

Would you like to actually refute any of that, or, better yet back up your claims about these cells existing and being the cause for dyslexia?

To start off with, each site I have gone to, states it does not know the causes of dyslexia and not only that, but each site is selling something. I have typed in at each site, severest form of dyslexia and nothing comes up. I guess they can't sell them something.

A perfect example, in a parallel situation, would be the thread about psychiatry for a whole state and how each person posting after what I said, could not challenge me, so they decided, that there was no money cure or money bandaid, so they just waltzed over it. Most of the time, when people cannot answer, they merely do not answer. If you believe there is nothing to my words on that thread, I would dare you to counter what I said. I drew the parallels to that thread, because the doc on this thread decided to answer to what he could, but not all the questions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------You say,--Your assertion that it is caused by sleeping on the wrong side would make it environmental rather than genetic. -
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I

[Boy Scout11]

Here you go. From webmd.com (http://my.webmd.com/hw/parenting_and_pregnancy/te7229.asp):



Webmd is a fairly reputable site, and they say that the cause of dyslexia is unknown, although it appears to be genetic. Your assertion that it is caused by sleeping on the wrong side would make it environmental rather than genetic. And, honestly, your answer of "I was told this by a dyslexic organization a long time ago" doesn't carry much weight. I'll take the opinion of a reputable medical site over the opinion of some dyslexia organization whose name you can't even remember, and which may or may not be reputable at all.

No kidding. I've already shown that differeing density (such as that which would be cause by "air encapsulation") would have no effect, though.

You have yet to show that these cells even exist. I contend that they do not. Please give a cite other than "somebody once told me so, but I don't remember who it was or why you should believe them".

I've already debunked that. For one thing, because people spend more time standing and sitting than lying down, these fictional cells would rise to the top-center of the head, and thus lying on any particular side would have no effect whatsoever. For another, I have shown that teeth migrate to their destination both with and against gravity, thus if these fictional cells did exist (which you have failed to demonstrate, other than by saying, in essence, "someone once told me so") they would not have to be affected by gravity at all. In other words, rising against gravity would not be "the only way for them to get there", as you put it.

There's a difference between "no one could" and "no one wanted to". Besides, that has nothing at all to do with this thread.

But you should depend on other websites to verify your claims when your facts are in question. Your entire premise is based on these cells rising in the brain, yet you have not demonstrated with any believability that these cells even exist. Even so, I have given numerous reasons why sleeping on one particular side would not necessarily have any effect on these supposed cells, including the fact that objects of differing density have been demonstrated to not migrate through the brain, and the fact that, were such migration to occur, the cells would end up in the center of the top of the head, and not on any particular side.

Would you like to actually refute any of that, or, better yet back up your claims about these cells existing and being the cause for dyslexia?

Every site claims they don't know, but they are ready to sell you something and when I type in severest forms of dyslexia, --nothing. I guess if they can't sell you something, its not worth their time.

LOL, everytime in the past, when someone can't or won't answer, they usually hide behind the,--it's not worth answering. LOL

Your repetition without understanding is getting boring, I have already answered you several times and you are unable to comprehend, so I will wait to hear from someone that fully comprehends all the ramifications. ALL OF THEM, as well as someone that will answer point and counterpoint. While I could be partially wrong, there is just as much chance that I am partially correct. I search for the truth and do not give such weak answers as to,--I didn't want to answer, because there was nothing to what you said. NONSENSE. Go talk to someone else that wants their time wasted. I'm done with you.

[Boy Scout11]

While gleal scaffolding would seem the best, you have yet to rule out geotropic causation in this instance or speak to body position and the triggering mechanisims, along with quite a few other things I brought up, such as, are the cells for the right handed person starting out under the right hemisphere and are the cells spoken of for the left handed child, under the left side of the brain, as part of all I pose? If they do, this in itself would favor left hemisphere dominance and right hemisphere dominance and it would also support my theory on balance to a degree, unless you can debunk that.

[Boy Scout11]

If those cells are controlled by geotropic influences and that influence is heat and heat rises, at all times, with the child in the opposing position in sleep and sedation is part of the triggering mechanisim, maybe you can see that those cells would not migrate, because they would be in a position to be stopped, if the cells for right and left hemisphere are on opposing sides for opposing handedness and IF, the mother was opposing handed to the child.

[Aldebaran]

Genetics - No evidence that dominance is hereditary

I don’t know if any serious study was ever published on this, but I am convinced that the above conclusion is wrong because I see the evidence in my own family. My mother was left handed, I am left handed, one of my children is left handed and one of my children who died at a very young age was left handed. Furthermore two close relatives of my mother are /were left handed. This then only being the information of present generations. I’m convinced I can dig up many more examples when I would go looking.


What is blind typing?
It is typing without looking at your keyboard = I look only at the screen. That helps a lot in keeping Dyslex in a coma, because there is no direct connection between what my fingers do and what my eyes see. = My fingers are conditioned to hit the letters my knowledge of the language wants to appear on the screen while probably my brain is mixing things up (and does when I am involved in pure handwriting). This trick can make me dizzy sometimes and even to a point of causing nausea (it now does make me dizzy, for example) and it is not always working as I expect it should. Reading can cause the same symptoms, especially a language like this one (also because I am not fluent enough in it to rely on the guessing game).

I would also point out that as Aldebarans people, force all people in their culture to be right handed, that seems to be wrong, especially when in many cultures, we see right and left handed people


In my country and other Islamic nations/societies the emphasis on the use of the right hand for certain tasks is cultural and often people connect this also with religion/superstition. I don’t think there is any “force” needed to grow up in your culture and religion, you simply are part of it since you are in the craddle.
My mother on the other hand was EU citizen and born and raised in her country. She was very much forced to use her right hand for everything, just like her relative was forced to do this. That was before people started to realize that being left-handed was something natural and that going against it could cause the children some problems.
I would ask you to show me one country where left handed people are not facing certain difficulties even when it comes to the most simple tasks in every day life. Ask anyone who is left handed if in his country everything is designed and constructed for left and right handed both and which group is by far the favoured one.


she was 4 and yes, I have been told that before, but she has eye trouble, causing the need for glasses, she seems uncoordinated, she was turning her writing paper as a lefty was, which was probably a learned trait from either her dad or brother and to this day, she still has trouble with balance and power. While all this could be normal and not be dyslexia, she was the reason for my look into the world of dyslexia.

It seems to me that the eye trouble is the cause of all of this. Furthermore: many young children write letters “wrong” and have trouble with coordination until they are a bit older. My daughter showed the same “symptoms” you describe at that age and she is not dyslexic at all. I think you panicked a bit too early and went looking for things that aren’t there.

It is very likely that some people with milder forms of dyslexia create more connections within the brain.

I would rather suggest that while learning how to deal with the handicap, we develop ways to connect things that are by our nature disconnected.

I'm willing to bet that because of the many factors involved, dyslexic individuals that are pressed very hard, develop what is known as cluster headaches, because they overdevelop the connections within the brain and possibly create a feedback in many ways, eye strain being one of the major factors.

I don’t think my headaches are a result of “overdeveloped” connections. I think they are the result of a sort of by nature caused “disconnections” that I must try to bypass.

Some or most of these people will be brilliant in many ways.

This finally explains everything… :)


.. if we think about dyslexics, they are born thinking in somewhat of an inverse way, so they have to think and work twice as had to come to the levels other children in their classes do, or they may be kept back.

No, I think not “inverse” but I see/perceive/interprete other things then what should be obvious at first sight.
I agree that it asks a lot of work and discipline to bypass this as good as possible. It didn’t stop me for learning a lot of languages though. If you need somehting to get at the goal you have set for yourself , you go for it and you do what is necessary. (I admit to have tortured quite a few books and other items that didn’t survive undamaged my frustration-throwing-with-whatever-under-my-hand at whatever in sight.)

when these people come under a lot of stress, it usually creates tremendous eye strain that creates a sort of overload.

I think you make the wrong connection between eye problems and dyslexia. I wear reading glasses since I was little and I wear other reading glasses for PC work. It has nothing to do with my dyslexia but with an inborn eye problem (that was partially corrected by an operation when I was still a baby.)

When I get dizzy upto nausea from reading while typing or simply readign, this has nothing to do with my eye problem. It has to do with the simpple fact that my dyslexic brain can't follow the speed of the information I feed it and which it has to puzzle out bypassing brother Dyslex.

The above is why dyslexics within the milder forms become more creative. They look at things from two different ways all the time.

I doubt that being creative or not has something to do with being dyslexic. In my experience dyslexic people have a natural gift for skills where you must read plans or schemes instead of reading texts. This has nothing to do with being creative or not. Being left handed on the other hand forces you to be creative in many aspects.

I don’t think you have offered enough convincing evidence that your idea about cell migration – if this exists - has even remotely a connection with the causes of dyslexia.

On the other hand, if it is true that you that there are no studies done about what you describe under “a favoured side of sleep” then this is an interesting issue, but not to bring it in connection with dyslexia as you try to do.

You then came up with this example:

If the mother is right handed and the fetus is left handed as say the dad and the mother being right handed naturally sleeps on her favored side, that would be in direct conflict with the needs of the child, which can and in cases, will either slow or stop the ascention of the cells, for which, the fetus will probably give the mother many sleepless nights.

My mother was left handed. So in your idea she must have slept on her “favoured side” when she was pregnant, wich then was also mine since I am also left handed.
Your whole idea on migrating brain cells also doesn’t take into account that a foetus moves around a lot and this constantly. You also don’t take into account that it comes and stasy in a position (normally) with the head down for several weeks by the end of the pregnancy.

Quote:
What causes dyslexia is not known. However, there is strong evidence that suggests dyslexia is passed from parent to child genetically. Researchers have found that identical twins have a higher rate of dyslexia than nonidentical twins, an indication that genetic factors are involved in dyslexia.

I think they are on the right track. Although not necessarily from parent to child (non of my parents was dyslexic).

Salaam. A

[Boy Scout11]

Very nice Aldebaran, I will be going to work, but I will answer you completely, later. I hope you have a great day. I would also say to you, that you might try to cover one eye while blind typing, just to see if you can last longer and or, if it creates as much of a problem for you, as when using both eyes. Just a suggestion.

[Joe Random]

Your repetition without understanding is getting boringI'm only repeating because you keep ignoring the issues I've brought up. If you'd just respond to my concerns about your hypothesis, I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself.

I didn't want to answer, because there was nothing to what you said. NONSENSE.Not at all. You claim that the positioning of the head during sleep has some effect on these hypothesized cells rising to a particular side of the brain. I have countered with the following: Objects of differing densities in the brain do not rise or sink. I have given a concrete example. Can you contest that fact?
Any object in the brain that moved in a direction counter to the pull of gravity would move to the location that is most often upright. Since normal people spend more time awake than asleep, that would end up being the top of the head, not one side or the other. Can you contest that fact?Those two items, alone, destroy your hypothesis completely. The physics of the situation run completely counter to what you are claiming happens. Can you refute either of my points? Will you actually engage me in this argument, or will you do what you have done for the rest of this thread and completely ignore any facts that get in the way of your pet hypothesis?

Go talk to someone else that wants their time wasted. I'm done with you.I see, so when you're losing a debate, your reaction is to hold your fingers in your ears and say "la la la I can't heeeeaaaar you!", is that it? Actually, I wouldn't even call this "losing a debate", because you have, thus far, not even been really debating.

Worst of all, you have yet to even provide a shred of evidence, other than "someone once told me so", that this layer of cells even exists. Since every single source I've seen makes no mention at all of these supposed cells, I must assume that this layer of cells does not exist, until you can provide some sort of cite that claims otherwise.

So what will you do now? Will you ignore me, as you claimed you would, or will you actually address the factors that I mentioned that would cause your theory not to work, and show how my reasoning is flawed? If you are right, then I must be wrong, and it must be possible to show how I am wrong, to show how my reasoning is fallacious. If you cannot do so, I must assume that you are conceding defeat.


P.S. You should really learn how to quote correctly on this message board. This link (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/misc.php?do=bbcode#quote) explains how to use vBCode to quote. Correct quoting would make your responses much easier to read.

[Boy Scout11]

[QUOTE=Aldebaran]I don’t know if any serious study was ever published on this, but I am convinced that the above conclusion is wrong because I see the evidence in my own family. My mother was left handed, I am left handed, one of my children is left handed and one of my children who died at a very young age was left handed. Furthermore two close relatives of my mother are /were left handed. This then only being the information of present generations. I’m convinced I can dig up many more examples when I would go [looking.]
--------------------------------------
Was your dad right handed?

--------------------------------------
It is typing without looking at your keyboard = I look only at the screen. That helps a lot in keeping Dyslex in a coma, because there is no direct connection between what my fingers do and what my eyes see. = My fingers are conditioned to hit the letters my knowledge of the language wants to appear on the screen while probably my brain is mixing things up (and does when I am involved in pure handwriting). This trick can make me dizzy sometimes and even to a point of causing nausea (it now does make me dizzy, for example) and it is not always working as I expect it should. Reading can cause the same symptoms, especially a language like this one (also because I am not fluent enough in it to rely on the guessing game).

-----------------------
Ah, thanks.

------------------


In my country and other Islamic nations/societies the emphasis on the use of the right hand for certain tasks is cultural and often people connect this also with religion/superstition. I don’t think there is any “force” needed to grow up in your culture and religion, you simply are part of it since you are in the craddle.
My mother on the other hand was EU citizen and born and raised in her country. She was very much forced to use her right hand for everything, just like her relative was forced to do this. That was before people started to realize that being left-handed was something natural and that going against it could cause the children some problems.
I would ask you to show me one country where left handed people are not facing certain difficulties even when it comes to the most simple tasks in every day life. Ask anyone who is left handed if in his country everything is designed and constructed for left and right handed both and which group is by far the favoured one.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If your mother was forced to use her right hand, it would be difficult at best, to say it did not cause any problems.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to me that the eye trouble is the cause of all of this. Furthermore: many young children write letters “wrong” and have trouble with coordination until they are a bit older. My daughter showed the same “symptoms” you describe at that age and she is not dyslexic at all. I think you panicked a bit too early and went looking for things that aren’t there.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I agree, but as I wrote the piece in that manner origionally, I still show it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I would rather suggest that while learning how to deal with the handicap, we develop ways to connect things that are by our nature disconnected.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If dyslexics see and write things backwards, I would call that, inverse, so on that point, I would not call that a disconnect, even though, you struggle with it and I do not. I say that, because that is how the reasearchers have described it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don’t think my headaches are a result of “overdeveloped” connections. I think they are the result of a sort of by nature caused “disconnections” that I must try to bypass.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It may be, that in a certain way, you are correct, by calling it a disconnect, because you have to undo what you see and sort of redo it, in its proper order. Hmmm, interresting, thanks.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think you make the wrong connection between eye problems and dyslexia. I wear reading glasses since I was little and I wear other reading glasses for PC work. It has nothing to do with my dyslexia but with an inborn eye problem (that was partially corrected by an operation when I was still a baby.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's possible in your case, but many cases of dyslexia have different traits, from the dyslexics I have spoken with.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don’t think you have offered enough convincing evidence that your idea about cell migration – if this exists - has even remotely a connection with the causes of dyslexia.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's one of the good things about this country, sometimes we can disagree and it's ok.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the other hand, if it is true that you that there are no studies done about what you describe under “a favoured side of sleep” then this is an interesting issue, but not to bring it in connection with dyslexia as you try to do.
---------------------------
You can never tell. :)
----------------------------


My mother was left handed. So in your idea she must have slept on her “favoured side” when she was pregnant, wich then was also mine since I am also left handed.
Your whole idea on migrating brain cells also doesn’t take into account that a foetus moves around a lot and this constantly. You also don’t take into account that it comes and stasy in a position (normally) with the head down for several weeks by the end of the pregnancy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While your mother was a lefty, she was also taught to be a righty. What that may have caused to her without knowing, neither you pr I will ever know and it is likely, she never will either. It could have affected which side she felt more comfortable to sleep on, depending on the amount of physical activity and the stress placed on the opposing sides of the body.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Aldebaran]

[If your mother was forced to use her right hand, it would be difficult at best, to say it did not cause any problems.

I don't think it caused any problems, the more since she still used her left hand by preference for everything possible. I think on the contrary that she was able to use both right and left hand for things like writing and eating etc..
I also am under the impression that everyone who is left handed by nature has to learn to do that for certain tasks.

If dyslexics see and write things backwards, I would call that, inverse, so on that point, I would not call that a disconnect, even though, you struggle with it and I do not. I say that, because that is how the reasearchers have described it.

I never heard or saw this called "inverse". You can also name it disorientated or other-orientated, yet that is not the same as "inverse" to me.

It may be, that in a certain way, you are correct, by calling it a disconnect, because you have to undo what you see and sort of redo it, in its proper order. Hmmm, interresting, thanks.

I think I was not clear about this. I do not need to "undo" and then "redo".
When I read a word I first make it easy on myself and guess what it represents = I see the picture. That can be more then one thing but of course it is often the right thing at once.
If not, I see that soon enough because the rest of the sentence makes no sense (or the final outcome when putting it in its context).
Then I use an other method = make the disconnection. The mental pictures from item/object I thought the letters represent must go. I look again and bann all other impressions but the letters I see. Then I start to see letters arranged in a certain pattern and try, relying on my experience, to make the connection with what they stand for, just like everyone else who sees a written word.

I don't know if this is clear enough to see what I mean and of course this whole process goes very quickly and by now mostly without me having to think through or about it all the time. I was teached how it works when I was a child and you get better in time.
Yet any word that has no direct link with something you can picture it is still more difficult then those who do. That is in my view also a reason why Dyslex shows up when I am tired, distracted, must read a lot or write a lot, swithc between languages (especially then) = when my ocncentration starts to fall apart.
On the other hand it is also a very good tool for me to have many languages because while doing the guessing I also picture the pattern of words (= their picture as a set of letters in a certain order) and their meaning in other languages to compare with the ones I see, and use this to get to the right interpretation.

These are the things I found and use to get Dyslex in a coma = a personal method that most probably is of no use for someone else. Dyslexia has many different individual faces.

While your mother was a lefty, she was also taught to be a righty. What that may have caused to her without knowing, neither you pr I will ever know and it is likely, she never will either. It could have affected which side she felt more comfortable to sleep on, depending on the amount of physical activity and the stress placed on the opposing sides of the body.

I think once she became adult she got completely rid of all that outside influence and I also think that when you sleep, you follow your subconscience. Which then certainly told her that she was lefthanded.

By the way: for coding a quote, type

*quote] sentence */quote]

replacing * with [

(Reads a lot easier. )


Salaam. A

[Boy Scout11]

[QUOTE=Aldebaran]I don't think it caused any problems, the more since she still used her left hand by preference for everything possible. I think on the contrary that she was able to use both right and left hand for things like writing and eating etc..
I also am under the impression that everyone who is left handed by nature has to learn to do that for certain tasks.

Ok, I can see that, thanks.

I never heard or saw this called "inverse". You can also name it disorientated or other-orientated, yet that is not the same as "inverse" to me.[quote/]

Inverse means, in reverse, according to the dictionary.

[quote]I think I was not clear about this. I do not need to "undo" and then "redo".
When I read a word I first make it easy on myself and guess what it represents = I see the picture. That can be more then one thing but of course it is often the right thing at once.

Now that sounds very interresting, but I have never heard launguage expressed in such a way. In other words, if you see the word bus, you picture a bus in your minds eye???


If not, I see that soon enough because the rest of the sentence makes no sense (or the final outcome when putting it in its context).

Ah, now that makes sense to me, because many times, I will not understand a words meaning, until I read and comprehend the rest of the sentence. If I still am not sure, I look up the word to be sure.


Then I use an other method = make the disconnection. The mental pictures from item/object I thought the letters represent must go. I look again and bann all other impressions but the letters I see. Then I start to see letters arranged in a certain pattern and try, relying on my experience, to make the connection with what they stand for, just like everyone else who sees a written word.

I don't know if this is clear enough to see what I mean and of course this whole process goes very quickly and by now mostly without me having to think through or about it all the time. I was teached how it works when I was a child and you get better in time.
Yet any word that has no direct link with something you can picture it is still more difficult then those who do. That is in my view also a reason why Dyslex shows up when I am tired, distracted, must read a lot or write a lot, swithc between languages (especially then) = when my ocncentration starts to fall apart.
On the other hand it is also a very good tool for me to have many languages because while doing the guessing I also picture the pattern of words (= their picture as a set of letters in a certain order) and their meaning in other languages to compare with the ones I see, and use this to get to the right interpretation.

I understand, but I could not do such, as I was never pressed to. What you explain takes great creativity and concentration, as I see it, especially with more than one language.

These are the things I found and use to get Dyslex in a coma = a personal method that most probably is of no use for someone else. Dyslexia has many different individual faces.

Because you have to do so much and in so many different ways, is exactly the reason some dyslexics become so creative.



I think once she became adult she got completely rid of all that outside influence and I also think that when you sleep, you follow your subconscience. Which then certainly told her that she was lefthanded.

While that may be true, it would depend on what kind of physical labor, how much and many other things, because a person that is normally left handed, taughtt to be right handed, must switch the power side of the body to the balance and the balance side to the power side of the body, which will demand grat concentration and force of will, but it also creates problems in many other things within the body and mind, as well as how someone sees everything. IMHO of course, but common sense also seems to dictate such.

Thanks for the quote tips, I tried them here, we will see if I got it right.

Always a pleasure talking with you sir.

Jim

[TonyF]

[...] a person that is normally left handed, taughtt to be right handed, must switch the power side of the body to the balance and the balance side to the power side of the body, which will demand grat concentration and force of will [...]
... where is this coming from? I've never heard of balance being on a side of the body and power being on the other.

Is this a medical/biological/other concept, or (as you seem to be saying) your own ideas?

[Boy Scout11]

... where is this coming from? I've never heard of balance being on a side of the body and power being on the other.

Is this a medical/biological/other concept, or (as you seem to be saying) your own ideas?

Yes Tony, these are my ideas. Just think, as far as I know, everybody has a stronger hand, arm and leg and they are all on one side of the body. For me, it is the right side of my body, just as I am right eye dominant.

My friends were all the same, except for a left handed friend and he was doninant on his left. Dominant, being the strongest side.

When you kick a ball and you are right side dominant, that person will plant and balance on his left side as his right or power side kicks the ball. The right side is usually bigger, stronger, faster and more coordinated than the left.

If you run and jump, a right handed person will plant and balance with the left side of the body and at the last second, snap the power of the right side of his body, to propel him as far as possible.

A right handed fighter will present the left side of his body to the opponent and when he wishes to punch with power, he will snap the right side of his body, arm and fist, at the same moment and deliver the power, while the left stabalizes his body and balance, if he is any good.

A pole vaulter that is right handed, will plant his left foot and kick with his right.

The left side of his body is powerful, but the right is always behind the left side and always delivers the most power.

[Joe Random]

Yes Tony, these are my ideas. Just think, as far as I know, everybody has a stronger hand, arm and leg and they are all on one side of the body.Many people switch their dominant side depending on the activity, though. My brother, for instance, is left handed. He kicks a ball with his left foot, eats and writes with his left hand, etc. However, he throws a Frisbee and bats at baseball like a right-hander. He's tried reversing that, and simply cannot do it with his left hand, no matter how much he practices.

For me, it is the right side of my body, just as I am right eye dominant.I'm right handed and right footed, yet I am left eye dominant.

How do the above examples fit in with your hypothesis?

[Boy Scout11]

Many people switch their dominant side depending on the activity, though. My brother, for instance, is left handed. He kicks a ball with his left foot, eats and writes with his left hand, etc. However, he throws a Frisbee and bats at baseball like a right-hander. He's tried reversing that, and simply cannot do it with his left hand, no matter how much he practices.

As in medicine, no two people are alike. Much depends on learned traits and how anyone considers his/her body and the way they think about things. IE: If a person believes as a jumper, their right side is stronger and that they should jump off the right foot, instead of the left foot, that is not necessarily true, nor is it false. From my perspective and the many experiences I have lived thru physically, mentally and emotionally, this comes naturally to me. In my physical work, it is some of the hardest work around and requires the complete mental, physical and emotional involvement and entire body mechanics possible, from my perspective. :) No, I will not tell you what that is, but I can tell you, that any person pressed to their limits everyday, from morning to night, for better than 21 years, will naturally learn more about himself/herself in so many ways, than the average person that doesa desk job, or even a physical job, that does not require the mental exercise and problem solving skills in say my industry. That is why I say, when we teach our children, we should incorporate the physical with the mental in everything we teach, for them to become all they can be.

There will be many people that will change the parameters, such as Phil Mickleson, that is naturally right handed, but as a youngster, he stood opposite his teacher, in an effort to see exactly what the teacher was doing. It does not mean he was right or wrong, but it does not prove that he is as powerful as he could be and also does not disprove it. That was a learned trait from youth and ingrained by the teacher, as well as his desire to be one of the best, maybe despite and because of such. A strong force of will, can overcome most obsticles, but does not prove that he would not have been stronger or better.

I'm right handed and right footed, yet I am left eye dominant.

How do the above examples fit in with your hypothesis?

I have heard of many such cases and that could be very natural, depending. To understand body mechanics in depth, it would take a wide ranging study, but I also believe, that much could be learned from such, just as the study of dyslexia, its many forms and complexities, could teach us all, so much.