White Entertainment Network

[madd1]

Would a White Entertainment Network be branded as racist on face value alone?
If so, why?

[pepperlandgirl]

White Entertainment Network?
Isn't that VH1?
Or maybe ABC, NBC, or CBS?

[argyle87]

Of course it would be branded racist. That's the unseen double standard that middle class white males live with every day. Granted, it's not the most oppressive thing in the world, but it does limit the ways in which you can express yourself. There are things a black person can say that I could be expelled from school or possibly arrested for saying. A network called the White Entertainment Network will never exist because white males are doomed to exist in America as the Guilty Party. Everything is our fault. Incidentally, when I was in high school, I often joked about this exact concept. It was after I discovered the music programming on BET was far better than that of MTV or VH1, and chose to watch that to see good rap music instead of Will Smith over and over. Myself and a friend always thought it would be cool to start a scholarship program limited only to white students. We would call it the Ivory Scholar (as opposed to the Ebony Scholar already in existence). The idea came after my friend was offered a substantial scholarship to FAMU because he told the College Board he was black. Of course, when he told the truth, the offer was promptly withdrawn.

[Saint Zero]

Who'd care? TV sucks anyway.

[Typo Negative]

White Entertainment Network?
Isn't that VH1?
Or maybe ABC, NBC, or CBS?



She's right. You can turn on any chanel (except BET) at virtually anytime and find shows featuring white people.

And argyle87, white males are not oppressed if thats what you're saying.

[Nutty Bunny]

spooje: I can't speak for argyle87, but I don't think that was what he/she meant. At least that's not how I took it. I think it was a way of saying that even though white people aren't allowed to say certain things that are perfectly fine for black (or hispanic, etc.) people to say, it's not like we feel oppressed because of that.

I think everyone has to be too careful about what they say these days, it seems that white people are considered the bigger a**holes for saying non-PC things. I'm not talking about blatant racism, but just idiotic stereotypes like, "White people can't dance." and "Black people can dance." Which statement is more likely to get the person who uttered it in hot water?

I do agree, however, that a White Entertainment Television network is unnecessary, due to the overwhelming existance of programs on the major networks geared (mostly) toward white people. But calling a network "Black" Entertainment Television is also racist.

[jayron 32]

For the record, since I guarantee that most people voicing their opinions haven't watched more than 5 minutes of BET, that BET features a spectacular Jazz Showcase which features are large number of white musicians. It's one of the consistantly best Jazz programs on TV right now.

I am mostly unconcerned about what they call the network, or what sorts of moral paradoxes that small minded people think it introduces. They do have a pretty decent Jazz program (though I don't like most of the rest of the programing, that's just personal taste)...

[Milossarian]

Now that you mention it, Dewaholic, the all-white version or "Soul Train" would be rather comical ...

[Biggirl]

My cable company carries an Italian channel, and 2 spanish canals. We have the Asian Network, a Christian channel and about 7 sports channels.

So what is wrong with "specialization" channels? Hey, if someone wants to start the "white" channel, more power to them.

If someone did start this channel, what would be it's focus? White rap stars that are frozen out of BET? White basketball players that have not made it to the NBA? Documenteries on caucasions displaced by white flight?

When you say White Entertainment Network are you talking about WASPs or are all white people invited? The Italians already have their own channel.

[SterlingNorth]

you know you can't air programming on Sundays, except for informercial for cheap made-for TV crap that has to appeal to ghetto black consumers.
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If you haven't figured it out yet, the above was a joke

[Lamia]

Myself and a friend always thought it would be cool to start a scholarship program limited only to white students. We would call it the Ivory Scholar (as opposed to the Ebony Scholar already in existence). The idea came after my friend was offered a substantial scholarship to FAMU because he told the College Board he was black. Of course, when he told the truth, the offer was promptly withdrawn.


They withdrew the scholarship offer after they found out he was a liar? How dare they. Perhaps you and your buddy should set up a scholarship for dishonest people as well.

[argyle87]

Thank you, Dewaholic, for getting my point and clarifying for me. I don't want a race war on my hands.

As for what Lamia has to say, I think you are missing my point. He did not lose the scholarship because he lied, he lost the scholarship because he wasn't the right race. His dishonesty should not have been a factor. What happend to my friend is exactly what happens to many peolple in the workplace, and the reason many people now feel affirmative action is unnecessary and unfair. The offer was rescinded because of the color of his skin. The bit about starting my own scholarship was a joke we made up that was funny because it branded the Ebony Scholarship and other oragnizations like it as the racist entities that they are. A white-only scholarship could never exist, and yet scholarship programs exclusive to other races both exist and are considered benificial. Do you see my point. I'm thinking big picture, here, I know it is wrong to lie.

[Lamia]

As for what Lamia has to say, I think you are missing my point. He did not lose the scholarship because he lied, he lost the scholarship because he wasn't the right race. His dishonesty should not have been a factor.


Were I the one in charge of handing out scholarships it certainly would have been a factor.


What happend to my friend is exactly what happens to many peolple in the workplace, and the reason many people now feel affirmative action is unnecessary and unfair. The offer was rescinded because of the color of his skin. The bit about starting my own scholarship was a joke we made up that was funny because it branded the Ebony Scholarship and other oragnizations like it as the racist entities that they are. A white-only scholarship could never exist, and yet scholarship programs exclusive to other races both exist and are considered benificial. Do you see my point. I'm thinking big picture, here, I know it is wrong to lie.


Back when I was applying to colleges one of my high school teachers told me that she had attended college on a scholarship for people of Czech descent. I have heard that there are also scholarships available for people from various other European ethnic backgrounds. I don't imagine that many non-white people end up with those scholarships, do you?

There are also any number of scholarships that are effectively, if not expressely, all white. I hold the top academic merit scholarship at my school, and at a reception for the couple who funded the scholarship I had the chance to see every other person who has ever held it. They were all white. The 30-odd students in my class who hold the school's top three merit scholarships are also all white, as I learned at another reception. This cannot be for a lack of non-white applicants, as there are many non-white students at my school. It would thus appear that either non-white people are less deserving than white people or that there is something keeping non-whites from winning these scholarships. I am inclined to believe the latter, and thus have no problem with scholarships being set up specifically to help non-whites.

[argyle87]

What is the factor then, that keeps minorities from receiving those merit scholarsips which are available to people of all races? Are you saying that blacks, hispanics, etc. are not smart enough to compete with white students for mainstream merit scholarships and because of that should have special scholarships set aside for them? Don't get me wrong, if I was black and received a special scholarship because of it I would take the money and run, but I would also feel a little insulted.

[HomeSlice]

Are you saying that blacks, hispanics, etc. are not smart enough to compete with white students for mainstream merit scholarships

OK, I'll be the asshole and say on the mostpart, yes.

[argyle87]

HomeSlice enjoys smokeless tobacco, and says that sometimes, his girlfriends do, too.
(This should give you some insight into why he so willingly assumes the role of "asshole")

[HomeSlice]

That whole girlfriend thing was a freakin joke.

[argyle87]

I think you are missing my point, Jethro.

[elelle]

Well, to get back to the OP, I think Robert Johnson's(BET's CEO) point was to have an organization run by Black Americans, and not just the same old same old treating people as a stereotypical marketshare.

The same old same old IS The White Entertainment Network, which has controlled everything from the start. It would be rather redundant to create a channel devoted to the dominant culture, but seeing as it's a free country, any group who wants to feature a specific demographic is entitled to do so. I don't see anything racist about that, as long as other groups are given an equal chance to compete. What was the argument?

[SwimmingRiddles]

Oh, come on. Turn on your TV, watch three hours of prime time television. Turn the channel every twenty minutes to make sure you're getting a good sample. Write down the status of every minority actor/actress. Are they a criminal? A bafoonish clown?

If you still think that whites are underrepresented enough in television, you are either blind or in denial. I'm really sorry that you, a white man, feel persecuted. Try a couple thousand years of that persecution and I MIGHT feel sorry for you.

And argyle, your subtle racism is just as distasteful as HomeSlice's overt racism. There are scholarships for every conceivable ethinic background. I could get scholarships because my father is an Army vet. Does that unfairly reflect on people whose parents are NOT Army vets? Nope. It's just a tool at my disposal. Just because your friend tried to take a scholarship away from an African American kid, and got caught does not mean that suddenly, after 400+ years of oppression, the white population is a victim. Please.

[TomH]

My cable company carries an Italian channel, and 2 spanish canals ... if someone wants to start the "white" channel, more power to them.

Sounds like somebody already did.

[Ukulele Ike]

Uh, just how would one publicize this "White Channel"?

"NOW! For all you good WHITE AMERICANS who are SO UNCOMFORTABLE with the idea of contact with ALL OTHER RACES that you don't even want to see them on your TELEVISION..."

Actually, for folks like that, there's always Nick at Nite. Before 1965 (when Bill Cosby co-starred with Robert Culp in I SPY), white people were pretty secure in the knowledge that their evening viewing would be rather monochromatic.

[Needs2know]

Snivel...snivel...whine...whine...Po little white chile.

Needs2know

[labdude]

after 400+ years of oppression, the white population is a victim. Please.


I can't believe someone on the straightdope would say this.
(400 years of oppression) Black people were oppressed in 1600. Didn't cecil have a column about this?

[pepperlandgirl]

after 400+ years of oppression, the white population is a victim. Please.



I can't believe someone on the straightdope would say this.
(400 years of oppression) Black people were oppressed in 1600. Didn't cecil have a column about this?

Hmm, IIRC, Africans were brought over first as servents, much like indentured servents, around 1620. Things just went to hell from there. Especially when people figured out there was a pretty good market for slave labor. Especially after indentured servents were no longer the norm.

[soulsling]

what?

i can't believe someone actually feels discriminated against because television is including all the ethnicities and races now. gimme a break. there are scholarships for everyone, for jews (who were prosecuted and oppressed far longer then any Africans brought to the USA, and not that it matters anyway, but so have countless other cultures and races...etc.), for vets, for immigrants, for people with low incomes, for people with high scores on tests, for people with a connection in the gene pool to some obscure no longer existent civilization, and plenty of companies will now pay for you to learn so you can work for them. as for television, Swiddles said it. every channel has it all. As to the OP, i don't think a WET would be branded as racist except by racists. BET is not considered racist except by racists. where's the harm? it's not a public channel. ABC, NBC, CBS, WB, and UPN.... all have enough programming that consists of everything that i don't see where anyone can say there aren't enough "white" people on tv. If a WET sounds good to someone, and they can make it work Pink said it, more power to 'em. as for lying about a scholarship, that's just dishonesty, if you want a scholarship, do your research, and you'll find there's so many out there, almost anyone can qualify for one.

[argyle87]

I think that we have ALL strayed a bit from the point here. The question we are debating here is how a television network overtly and expressly aimed at white people would be accepted by society. The following is a list of things we are not discussing:

1. College scholarships. I'm not going to say another word about this one. If you are still passing judgement over my friend's actions then you did not understand the context in which the anecdote was intended.
2. The ethics of lying to recieve a college scholarship.
3. The fairness of college scholarships open to only to those of a specific racial background.
4. Whether or not white people are "persecuted" or "oppressed".
5. My supposed "subtle racism". It both offends me and concerns me that someone who would be educated and enlightened enough to be an active participant in a message board such as this one would leap to such wild conclusions. I will not give you the pleasure of dignifying your claim with any further rebuttal, SR.

Let's stick to the topic or open a new thread, eh?

[Needs2know]

OK here is an answer to your OP. Yes, yes, yes, the establisment of a White Entertainment Network would be considered racist. The damned question is racist.

Needs2know

[Biggirl]

As to the OP. I think I answered it before, but I'll try again.

No, with reservations. Specialized channels abound. What would be broadcast on this channel? KKK rallies? If that's what the channel will be about, then yes it would be viewed as racist.

If the programming revolves around not so spicy mexican recipes and tanning without burning strategies, then no it's not racist.

What everyone else was trying to point out is that the OP makes a presumption of oppression which is pretty silly considering the social standing of white people.

[argyle87]

Now we're making some progress. I would like to point out, however, that the OP makes no mention of oppression. The first person to use the word "oppressive" was me, and I regret using that word. I was simply pointing out that white guys are forced to watch what they say and do or they will get themselves in trouble (just like I did here). Even someone who is not a racist can be falsely seen as one because they said something displeasing to minorities (which is apparently what I have done). IMHO, if David Duke started his own brand of WET, it would be immediately heralded as racist, even by those who have never seen it. The same can be said for minority leaders like Louis Farrakhan (sp?). But if, Ted Turner (or any other white media mogul) started a WET-type network, in exactly the same vein as BET, I believe it would also be considered racist. This is simply my personal opinion, but with the track-record the american white middle class has for discriminating against minoritites, I don't think a WET network would be well recieved, even with good intentions. That said, I'm calling it a day for this thread.

[SterlingNorth]

I think one think we're forgetting one thing.
Would a "White Entertainment Network" be successful?

What could you air? Reruns of shows popular amoung white people?
We've got broadcast syndication, in addition to TBS, TNT, USA Network, fX, WGN (which basically is broadcast syndication).
For older shows you got Nick-at-Nite and TV Land, Cartoon Network's Boomerang (for cartoons obviously)
Country Music? Well not all whites like it, and it's better marketed on networks like TNN, CMT.
Soft Rock? VH1
Hard Rock? MTV
Alternative? Probably best to go to a nightclub?

Popular white movies? HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Encore, AMC, TCM, Bravo, USA, TNT, TBS, The Movie Channel.
Romance? Romance Classics and Lifetime (marketed to women)
New shows appealing to whites? ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, WB

Is their any unique interesting programming that can be marketed to white people that isn't already broadcast somewhere on television?
I don't think so!

[Doctordec]

A white-only scholarship could never exist

Sure it could. If you wanted to fund a scholarship for white men of Irish descent under 5 feet tall living in Alaska, you could do it no problem. Private scholarships are not run by any government agency and you can pretty much hand pick who gets your money. But I guess this has nothing to do with WET.

[argyle87]

You raise an interesting a valid point, and scholarships like you mention do exist. My personal favorite is the "Tall and Teriffic" scholarship for anyone over 6'4' (it's a real one, I swear). But what if I made a scholarship and called it "The No-Asians Fund"? Anyone could get money from it, as long as they weren't asian. Would it fly? It might, but it would be seen as racist. Once again, I am not a racist, but I do enjoy discussing controversial topics.

[Crown Prince of Irony]

Off the OP, but on topic the way this is going.

True Story:
Had a friend in high school whose mother was Jamaican, and whose father was half African-American and half white.

He got a full scholarship from the Daughters of the Confederacy, or somesuch group celebrating Confederate Army officers' descendants, because he could prove direct lineage to some Confederate general.

We both laughed our asses off when he got it. Talk about poetic justice.

[Kiva]

I wonder why it had to be called "Black Entertainment Television". It gives the impression that it's solely for the entertainment of African-Americans, and that that kind of programming is what all African-Americans like. I'm uncomfortable with that kind of stereotyping. A TV channel shouldn't represent an ethnic group. Why not call it "Entertainment Television" or something, and leave it at that?

While we're on the subject of TV channels, how about Oxygen? I must say I'm not too enthusiastic. As a woman, I'd rather have more good science on tv, and less heartwarming, soulsearching sisterhood stuff.

[Czarcasm]

They call it Black Entertainment Television so that we know where to find shows where the star walks down the street in Chicago, New York, or Los Angeles and passes people that are NOT all white and middle-classed. Find shows that actually talk about what life as a typical black person is like. Find news that talks about what is happening in the inner city outside of riots and poverty.

[SterlingNorth]

A TV channel shouldn't represent an ethnic group. Why not call it "Entertainment Television" or something, and leave it at that?
__________
Kiva
That's an interesting sentiment there. What should we do about Univision or Telemundo? They are very implicit in representing an ethnic group with all that Spanish-speaking and whatnot. While we're at it what about this damn gender-segregation of programming. (Lifetime: Television for Women). And hell, we shouldn't subdivide people on interest. (Sci-Fi channel). Everybody should watch the same crap that the leaders or pop-culture decides is best for us on one "Entertainment TV" and leave it as that. The more alike we are, the better the world will be!!!

[SterlingNorth]

I just thought about this. It seems that y'all who object to BET is objecting to the name Black Entertainment Television. I know of no one who calls it "Black Entertainment Television". BEt is more of a brand name, especially since they have spun it aff on two new networks BET on Jazz and BET movies (I think).

Y'all can watch BET is you wish. Just because old "Night Court" reruns have been bought by Lifetime[/i] doesn't barr me from watching them when I get the chance, nor does having lived in Tennessee for a bit make me a slave to [b]TNN.

It's a marketing gimmick folks, like "fair-and-balanced" for Fox News, or "Magazine for Men" Maxim.

Or even GQ, Ebony, or Southern Living.

[Kiva]

SterlingNorth wrote:

That's an interesting sentiment there. What should we do about Univision or Telemundo? They are very implicit in representing an ethnic group with all that Spanish-speaking and whatnot. While we're at it what about this damn gender-segregation of programming. (Lifetime: Television for Women). And hell, we shouldn't subdivide people on interest. (Sci-Fi channel). Everybody should watch the same crap that the leaders or pop-culture decides is best for us on one "Entertainment TV" and leave it as that. The more alike we are, the better the world will be!!!


You know, that's a damn good idea. In fact, let's just get rid of TV altogether. When we get to the point where we have tv channels being the spokespeople for ethnic and gender groups, I think it's a signal to forget the whole stupid idea. Univision is a completely different story. False analogy there. It's a tv channel in SPANISH. I don't see it being called TV Channel For People With Tan Skin. In fact, Univision seems to be a channel populated entirely by blonde, blue eyed Spanish speaking people, which is another issue completely.

Anyone who believes that a TV channel called "Black Entertainment Television" can provide the types of programming that all people with dark skin enjoy, is trying to oversimplify matters so they don't have to deal with the real issues. Put everyone in their little compartments so we don't have to deal with differences. Let the women and African-Americans have their own little tv channels so you White Males can keep your CBS, ABC and NBC pristine.

Enjoy your television, people of America.
I'll be reading a book.

[bradysg]

Even so, I read an article in Newsweek a while back about black entertainers who claimed that BET short changed them, paying them less than the industry standard minimum for a performance. I think the article dealt with comedians mostly. Apparently, the attitude is that they're the only game in town, and if you don't play ball, you can go away.

Some think that white males are not discriminated against, but if discrimination is exclusion based on race, then it is true. I thought it was hysterical when I took my SATs that the "race" question resembled the following:

a) Mexican, Cuban, Latin American or Hispanic.
b) African American, Carribean American
c) Native American, Pacific Islander, Inuit or Aluetian
d) White.

What, no Irish-American? I would have gladly filled it in. Obviously though, that question is used to calculate statistics, and nobody cares what some Irish guy got on his boards.

The unfortunate truth is that white males (not all of them. Please make this distinction.) have had it pretty good in the past, and have done some bad stuff. Perhaps the pendulum that was in our favor for so long has to release the momentum by staying in favor of minorites and others for some time before it can finally settle in the center, and we can all live in peace, harmony, and affordable tuitions.

(P.S. Why do we have to get stuck with NBC, ABC, and CBS? They sucks. Overused plotlines and overused laughtracks.)

[Kilgore Trout]

The damned question is racist.

how so?


from the online webster's dictionary (www.m-w.com):

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination