Can PC monitors be repaired, or must they be junked?

[choie]

Hi all. My monitor stopped working today, and according to the Dell tech support person with whom I spoke, the sole solution is to "junk it and buy a new one" -- even though all she did was ascertain that it is the monitor's problem, not my computer itself.

So I'm all, like, "huh?" and "why can't I take it in for repairs?" And she's like, "you can't," so I go, "But you don't even know what's wrong," and she's all "Doesn't matter."

I doubt anyone can diagnose the problem sight unseen, so I'm not expecting either the tech support chick or any of y'all to fix my situation. But I'm just wondering if it's true that a broken monitor is basically trash material. If so, seems like a terrible waste to me! I mean, since there are a kabillion monitors out there, I'd think someone would be able to make a decent living repairing 'em. Plus, it's not as if good monitors are cheap investments, so in some cases repairing might make better financial sense than buying new. Yes? No?

(Well, I guess I'll share what's happening, just in case anyone's interested -- maybe it sounds familiar to someone: My monitor worked at 4AM yesterday when I turned off the computer, but didn't at 1PM when I turned the computer back on. The monitor's "power" light goes on and there's a normal warming up noise, but then I hear a POP! -- sorta like a lightbulb going out -- and the screen remains black.

Ugh, I love this monitor! Admittedly, my system dates from 1998, so maybe the monitor's time has come. But it's just so bizarre for something to work one minute, and then break the next with nothing happening in between. Not fair!)

[Berkut]

My Dad used to do this exact kind of repair work, and he closed up shop because in most cases it just wasn't worth the repair. You can replace most monitors for very close what it costs to repair them.

Old ones aren't worth fixing, and a lot of the newer ones are still under warranty.

[DWMarch]

When my monitor died a few years ago I asked the same question and the answer I was given was the cost factor. It's possible to fix a monitor but not particularly cost effective. And I'm no expert but it sounds to me like you would need to have the picture tube replaced, which basically amounts to a new monitor anyhow. If you buy a new one you can get a new warranty on it which will hopefully help you out if and when it burns out.

[choie]

Oh crapples, that sucks. But thanks to you both for answering.

I'm using my old 15-incher now, and I can't stand how eensy it is. Not only 'cause I'm a web designer and I need the extra screen size; two of my cats could sleep on the bigger monitor, but only one can get on top of this one! Geeze, what good is that?

Guess I'm off to find a good deal. Many thanks again, you two.

:(

[biqu]

according to the Dell tech support person with whom I spoke, the sole solution is to "junk it and buy a new one".

I'm surprised the tech didn't offer any suggestions on where to go to "junk it", because I recall Dell and other PC manufacturers getting behind a movement to curb environmental waste by providing a recycling service for products of theirs that would otherwise be destined for landfills. Check your local phone book for electronics recycling companies such as this one (http://www.subtractions.net), which I visited when I needed to recycle a dead CRT monitor several months ago.

[Scarlett67]

The Wisconsin Department of Corrections accepts old/broken computer equipment, including monitors, for donation. The inmates repair and donate what's fixable and take apart what isn't for recycling/disposal. Perhaps New York has a similar program.

[catsix]

People trained in computer support, even hardware support, are rarely trained in monitor repair. It'd seem like those two things would go together, but there are different concerns with repairing monitors than with replacing other types of hardware.

Monitors contain a high voltage capacitor which can be extremely dangerous if not properly discharged, so dangerous that they could kill someone. Monitor repairs are also fairly expensive. The expense often makes it more cost-effective to just purchase a new monitor than dealing with the repair.

The above, of course, applies to CRTs, because LCDs do not have the same internal components. LCDs typically cannot be fixed once the liquid crystal or the plates containing it are damaged, and the entire assembly must be replaced.

[NurseCarmen]

I used to repair them. Then slowly, over time, we stopped accepting 15"ers for repair, then 17"....etc. It really got to a point that it was cheaper to buy a new one. With LCDs taking over the market, I would think you could pick up a cheap CRT on eBay or the want ads.

Do not attempt this repair. The CRTs hold enough charge to kill you, even after being unplugged for a couple weeks. We had special tools that would discharge them, and when we did discharge them, we did it one handed so the current couldn't take a path through our heart.

[RogueRacer]

The Wisconsin Department of Corrections accepts old/broken computer equipment, including monitors, for donation. The inmates repair and donate what's fixable and take apart what isn't for recycling/disposal. Perhaps New York has a similar program.Do you have a web site with drop off points and policies? Thanks!

[choie]

Thanks very much for the suggestions, biqu, Scarlett67 and catsix! I'll look around to see if there are any programs like those in NYC. And don't worry, NurseCarmen, the odds of me attempting a monitor repair are roughly between zero and none. CPU repairs I've tried; a monitor? No freakin' way!

Doesn't seem likely that I'll find an affordable 19-inch monitor, so I might have to settle for a mere 17 inches. Quel horreur! Size truly does matter.

[Scarlett67]

Do you have a web site with drop off points and policies? Thanks!
http://www.wi-doc.com/Computer_Recycling_Program.htm

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

In my experience most electronic devices are throwaway items now.

If you check on ebay, you'll find that 17" monitors are just about being given away now.

[Hail Ants]

CRT monitors are almost, but not quite, obsolete these days. Because of LCD displays. I've been into computers over 20 years and even I was surprised at how fast LCDs caught on (considering that their biggest advantage over CRTs is, um, basically that they look cooler).

In less than a year computer CRTs will disappear from new systems. They'll be for bargain basement only.

I bought a brand new 21" Sony Trinitron flat screen CRT less than 4 years ago. Paid $500 for it (and it was a refurbished unit). Can get them today for $99. :mad:

So no, they can no longer be repaired.

[DocCathode]

CRT monitors are almost, but not quite, obsolete these days. Because of LCD displays.


That's a freaking lie! The CRT will be around forever! Forever!

[spingears]

A CRT is essentially a picture tube and subject to failure of one or more of the electron guns that supply the beam currents. If one or more go out bye bye tube.

The electronic power supply, again, is like a TV, and the hight voltage transformer is most likely the culprit. You mentioned HV pop. Repair is NOT cost effective.

Buy a new monitor, CRT or LCD (they are coming down in price), and enjoy.

Take the old CRT to Hazardous Waste Disposal.

[Cardinal]

I think the cost of repair is the big issue. When I advertised a working monitor (15", I think) for $20, only one person even called to see if I would come down or the price or anything. And that guy never came by. I gave it to a charitable thrift store.

[catsix]

Hail Ants said:
CRT monitors are almost, but not quite, obsolete these days.

Then you are aware that for many computer game and digital video freaks, the CRT is by far the preferable choice over the LCD because of the quality of picture and smoothness of motion that, so far, is not duplicated by LCDs of the same resolution. They're also preferable because, for those of us who game and/or play with digital video (especially 3D rendering) the LCD monitor has a gigantic shortcoming: fixed pixel size.

We can't change the resolutions so easily on an LCD, therefore our game of Unreal Tournament 2K3 doesn't look as good, doesn't play as good, and we're still using our CRTs because for those applications, they work better.

CRTs will continue to enjoy a market as large as the gaming population allows.

[olefin]

Do not attempt this repair. The CRTs hold enough charge to kill you, We had special tools that would discharge them,


Special tools... yea me too, a insulated screw driver attached to a wire attached to the chassis. :wally

I've replaced many CRTs in tvs, that was several years ago, now cheaper to junk them and buy new. Same goes for monitors.

[Dag Otto]

CRTs will continue to enjoy a market as large as the gaming population allows.

And let's not forget the real issue here. choie has cats that need a place to sleep.

[Hail Ants]

Then you are aware that for many computer game and digital video freaks, the CRT is by far the preferable choice over the LCD because of the quality of picture and smoothness of motion that, so far, is not duplicated by LCDsThat's one of the reasons why I was so surprised to see them overtake CRTs so quickly. In particular the first generation LCDs were not as bright, clear, or as 'fast' as a plain old monitor. And they were three times the price!

And yet now when I visit Best Buy or Circuit City that's all there are.

One advantage they do provide is that, because they're '2-dimensional' rather than 3-dimensional, a 20" LCD is only slightly larger than a 15" whereas a 20" CRT is huge compared to a smaller one.

Personally though, if you don't give a crap about their coolness (and I'll admit LCD displays do look cool), these are great times. You can get a huge, perfectly flat-screen, name brand, brand-new tube monitor for next to nothing!

[ftg]

Just to put some things in perspective:

1. My step-father ran a TV-Radio repair shop in the 50s. A lot of people would forfeit their set rather than pay for the repair when they found out how costly it was. And that was almost 50 years ago! Now with hardware costs down and salaries up, it's just gotten worse. (OTOH, I had lots of cool stuff to play with as a kid. Taught myself a lot about electronics repair at a young age and lived.)

Since the repair business is dying, the replacement parts business is going away too. Manufacturers barely make enough spares to cover their expected warranty work. Forget keeping stuff on hand for non-warranty work later.

2. My most recent CRT repair experience. I bought a nice 17" Philips monitor for $2 at a garage sale. It looked okay at first when I got it home but eventually developed an intermittent screen shrinkage problem. Took the cover off, did some checking and prodding. Something was loose. Set it aside for a while. Checked on it from time to time. Eventually found the solder connections to a Xistor cracked. (A really lousy soldering job overall.) Fixed it, tested it, more testing, and I'm using it right now. (Getting the circuit board out was a pain, and had to reinstall it all in order to test, etc.)

I might have spent ~10 hours total. A "real" tech might have spent 2 hours. Definitely not worth the value of the monitor, after the fix. (I bought a working IBM 19" monitor a year ago for $10.) I only do this for fun. It's a hobby for R&R and I get useful stuff out of it for little money, but at a cost of time.

The value of a used, working 17" monitor is practically nil. 14" and 15" monitors actually have a negative value in those areas with strong CRT/TV disposal laws.

3. Keep your cats away from all your electronics. Fur is a bad, bad thing. Cats can also expel all sorts of bad things onto electronics which are even worse.

4. You can discharge CRTs the right way or you can do it the wrong way. Here's (http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/tvfaq.htm#tvsafdis) how to do it right. I don't care in the least that you have done it the wrong way for years and haven't killed yourself. I am less than impressed. Doing it right has all sorts of pluses, for you and the device, so why bother doing it wrong?????

[RandomLetters]

We can't change the resolutions so easily on an LCD, therefore our game of Unreal Tournament 2K3 doesn't look as good, doesn't play as good, and we're still using our CRTs because for those applications, they work better.


All you need to do then is run games at the native resolution of the LCD (or half sizes - you can run games at 800x600 on a 1600x1200 LCD with no interpolation) and then games will look just fine on an LCD, though you need one with a fast response time to prevent ghosting.

[astro]

It's too bad you're not local, I'm sitting here in a cluttered sea of top quality, perfectly functional 17 inch monitors (Sonys, Dells even an Iiyama multimedia professional unit, I have accumulated from the local Goodwill) trying to figure out which neighbor's doorsteps I can leave them on without it being traced back to me .

[pilot141]

Three things:

1. astro where IS your local area? I have a friend in desperate need of a new monitor!

2. Thank Og someone else mentioned how bad it is to have your cats sleep on top of your monitor. Those vents on top not only allow heat to escape but also allow crud (dust, cat hair, etc) INTO your monitor. I'm actually surprised it lasted as long as it did with cats sleeping on it!

3. Hi Opal!

4. Crap, OK, four things. Has anyone else seen that video of the TV or CRT repair guys hooking up the monitor to the hoodankus and having the capacitor discharge this amazing lightning-like voltage? These guys were pros, in a TV repair shop and the thing still almost bit them.

[choie]

Wow, this has been a very interesting thread. I never expected to get so many replies! The monitor thing is really bugging me now. While I'm grateful to have even this ten-year-old Dell 15" replacement screen, it's just not good for my eyes. On light-colored webpages, I can actually see the screen refresh!

And let's not forget the real issue here. choie has cats that need a place to sleep.

I think I love you. :)

To everyone else, aw darn, yes, I know it's not good for fur/dust to enter computers or other electronics. But it's so warm there! How can I tell them no? Maybe when I get my new monitor, I can get one of those organizing monitor-top shelves that some catalogs sell. Won't be as warm, but not as much fur-to-monitor contact, either.

Anyway, are you guys sure one can get 17 inch + monitors so cheaply? I looked on ebay and most of the monitors seemed rather expensive to me. (I don't think I'd trust ebay with a monitor, anyway -- no return policy or warranty, right?) I've had excellent luck with Dell, so I checked on their Refurbished section: $98 was the minimum for a 17 inch CRT (not a flat screen). That's actually too pricey for me at the moment.

BTW, another downside of getting a new monitor, besides the price, is that most seem to require at least Win98. And I'm on win95. (running away in embarrassment)

[Scarlett67]

Anyway, are you guys sure one can get 17 inch + monitors so cheaply?

Tigerdirect.com has no-name 17" CRTs for $49.99 after rebate.

Another possibility is to check local universities. UW-Madison has a "SWAP" ("Surplus With A Purpose") warehouse where they sell off surplus, retired, working goods of all kinds (furniture, lab equipment, computer stuff) for very cheap. I've often seen 15" monitors there for $15.

[catsix]

Hail Ants said:
You can get a huge, perfectly flat-screen, name brand, brand-new tube monitor for next to nothing!

As my perfectly flat screen CRT Samsung is evidence of this. Thing cost me hardly any money at all.

RandomLetters said:
All you need to do then is run games at the native resolution of the LCD (or half sizes - you can run games at 800x600 on a 1600x1200 LCD with no interpolation) and then games will look just fine on an LCD, though you need one with a fast response time to prevent ghosting.

All in all, I'm not as happy with game performance on an LCD as I am with a CRT, and I do have both types. I also don't particluarly like watching video on LCD. I'll stick with my CRT for gaming and video.

[astro]

Three things:

1. astro where IS your local area? I have a friend in desperate need of a new monitor!

.

Salisbury, MD.

[pilot141]

Thanks for the reply astro.....but it's a bit far to make it economical!

[kayT]

"Keep your cats away from all your electronics."
This would require having no cats.
You can't "keep" cats away from anything.

[Threadkiller]

...Do not attempt this repair. The CRTs hold enough charge to kill you, even after being unplugged for a couple weeks. We had special tools that would discharge them, and when we did discharge them, we did it one handed so the current couldn't take a path through our heart.I can vouch for this.

I was removing a defunct CRT from a cabinet, cut a wire with insulated dikes, using only one hand, wearing rubber soled shoes, on a dry concrete floor. The shock threw me back four feet.

[ftg]

"Keep your cats away from all your electronics."
This would require having no cats.
You can't "keep" cats away from anything.

I have three cats. They don't go near any computers/TVs/etc. I know I have cats and have set things up that way. Simple. What's the problem?

[black rabbit]

There's a company outside of Cleveland that sells refurbed big CRTs for cheap:

http://www.merkortech.com/

Shipping those beasts could be a killer, though.

I've often contemplated making the eight-hour round trip drive to pick up a 20" or 21".

On the other hand, I'd probably spend at least a hundred bucks on gas.

[RandomLetters]

Anyway, are you guys sure one can get 17 inch + monitors so cheaply? I looked on ebay and most of the monitors seemed rather expensive to me. (I don't think I'd trust ebay with a monitor, anyway -- no return policy or warranty, right?) I've had excellent luck with Dell, so I checked on their Refurbished section: $98 was the minimum for a 17 inch CRT (not a flat screen). That's actually too pricey for me at the moment.


Just walk into your local Walmart, Bestbuy, Radioshack, ect, you should find brand new 17" for about $100. I picked up a 19" KDS CRT for less than $200, and that was over a year ago. This will also save on the shipping too; CRT's are bulky/heavy enough that buying them over the net can result in shipping charges that are a significant portion of the purchase price.

[Jake]

People trained in computer support, even hardware support, are rarely trained in monitor repair. It'd seem like those two things would go together, but there are different concerns with repairing monitors than with replacing other types of hardware.

Monitors contain a high voltage capacitor which can be extremely dangerous if not properly discharged, so dangerous that they could kill someone. Monitor repairs are also fairly expensive. The expense often makes it more cost-effective to just purchase a new monitor than dealing with the repair.

The above, of course, applies to CRTs, because LCDs do not have the same internal components. LCDs typically cannot be fixed once the liquid crystal or the plates containing it are damaged, and the entire assembly must be replaced.

Catsix, thanks for a very intelligent reply. Two questons to you though, are LCD's the future? And is my Sony Trintron going to last as long as a LCD?

[elfkin477]

CRT monitors are almost, but not quite, obsolete these days. Because of LCD displays. I've been into computers over 20 years and even I was surprised at how fast LCDs caught on (considering that their biggest advantage over CRTs is, um, basically that they look cooler).

When buying a new computer, I was able to find a PC package with a flatscreen CRT monitor instead of an LCD one (which I hate with a passion. They say the things help eyestrain...I never had eyestrain at all until my employers switched to LCD, and it's not just me) earlier this month without any problem. There were several packages with them every place I looked, so maybe they're not that close to being obsolete after all.

[catsix]

Jake said:
Catsix, thanks for a very intelligent reply.

You're welcome.

Two questons to you though, are LCD's the future?

I think they may actually be replaced at some point by their gas plasma counterparts, when the prices of these items begins to drop to more affordable levels. I've actually found that gas plasma does a lot better with regards to ghosting because it doesn't seem to lag as much as an LCD. Although with an LCD, quality is the name of the game. The faster the transistors in the active matrix (TFT) types can respond to changes in voltage, the faster the image will change and the more it'll look like real time. When you can get the average home user affording an LCD with a native resolution of 1600x1200, and more games that run 1600x1200 with good graphics, I think CRTs will fade even further into the past. Another big plus to an LCD is that it doesn't dim and refresh like a CRT because it's not 'painted' with an electron gun, but closing and opening what are basically tiny shutters against a constant backlight. CRT flicker causes eye strain, and causes headaches, even at the higher refresh rates for those who spend a lot of time in front of the monitor. An LCD or gas plasma monitor won't cause that problem because there is no flicker. Also, the DVI input on many monitors (and the lack of need to convert to a lossy analog signal) means they will probably continue to improve the clarity of picture.

And is my Sony Trintron going to last as long as a LCD?

Typically a good quality CRT monitor will last quite a long time. I've got a couple in use that are more than six years old, and they're still working very well. LCDs, from what I know, have a working lifetime of 7+ years, and actually have fewer parts to break than in a CRT. There are no electron guns, there are no high output voltage capacitors, and in general the less that can break, the less that can go wrong.

No real way to tell exactly how long your specific Trinitron will live, but it is a good quality monitor so it should last you for quite some time. Most people purchase new computers that include monitors long before their old monitors die, whether they are LCD or CRT. One other thing, you might not have as hard a time disposing of an LCD as you would a CRT, because the CRT still has that rather dangerous high output capacitor which must be safely disposed of, and an LCD does not.

Have to say though, I'm not much of a monitor expert. I'm big in digital logic design, but haven't done a whole lot of work on monitors. I know them from using them, and much like every other consumer, I toss my monitors when they break because repairs are too expensive.

The CRT's definitely not obsolete at this point, and your monitor will not be obsolete until it no longer performs the function you want it to.

[NurseCarmen]

Special tools... yea me too, a insulated screw driver attached to a wire attached to the chassis. :wallyYou call me a putz because you are foolish enough to use homemade tools? The possible implications: You use the wrong guage wire, it shorts out, leaving no path to ground but you.
The screwdriver isn't flexible enough to reach the node, you think it's discharged, but it aint.
The rubber flap catches the screwdriver so you can't hit the node, you think it's discharged, but it aint.
The screwdriver doesn't offer the level of protection of the discharge tool, the current takes advantage of this.
The stiffness of the screwdriver cracks the CRT at the node. The current arcs since the flap is lifted so high to accomodate the screwdriver...You know, when messing with something that can kill ya, I don't mind using the correct tool for the job. And you are risking your life by using a homemade tool for it. On top of that, you are irresponsible to suggest it on a public board, where people unfamiliar with the risks and componants may consider your method.

[choie]

Wow, catsix, that was an extremely enlightening explanation! Thank you very much, I feel much better informed than I was before starting this thread. Will you indulge me in one more question? When you say "gas plasma," are you referring to the same thing as those super-thin TV sets?

For those keeping up with this oh-so-thrilling tale: I've found one computer store on ebay with pretty good prices -- 17 inch flat screen Dell/Sony Trinitron for approx. $75, plus a six month warranty -- that actually has a physical location fairly close by, in Astoria (i.e., part of Queens). So when I scrape up the money, getting there from Manhattan will be a piece of cake and save on shipping. (Although there's still a $20 "handling charge," which seems odd if I'm picking the darn thing up, no?)

Thanks again, everyone. And keep those suggestions coming if anyone has anything more to add!

[catsix]

choie said:
When you say "gas plasma," are you referring to the same thing as those super-thin TV sets?

Yes, they work the same way that a "plasma screen" TV set works. Instead of a liquid crystal being sandwiched between the two plates of glass, there is a gas in there which is affected by the transistors. Very expensive right now, but like everything else should come down in price as it becomes less of a "new" technology. They're also not as highly developed as the LCDs, and typically require more power than an LCD monitor would.

That's another big advantage that LCD has over CRT. The LCD won't draw nearly as much power, which is better for the environment and your electric bill.