The Terms Yank and Yankee

[Nobody]

In American, why do people in the South sometimes refer to people in the North as Yankees, yet, Europeans refer to all Americans as Yanks (short for Yankee obviously)?

[Colibri]

The "original" Yankee was a New Englander, in particular a rural one.

But nowadays what "Yankee" means depends on where exactly you are.

In New England it means a back-country, laconic farmer or fisherman-type.
In the northern U.S., it means a New Englander in general.
In the southern U.S., it means someone from the northern U.S.
And outside the U.S., it means any American in general.

[John Mace]

Being a native New Englander myself, my favorite as alwasy been the Swamp Yankee (http://www.curbstone.org/index.cfm?webpage=80), as we call certain types in Souther New England. Kind of a New England Good Ol' Boy/Redneck. And, beleive it or not, there are a lot of swamps in rural New England.

[Mister Rik]

I don't have a cite, but the word "Yankee" was originally something of a racial slur. It is a bastardization of the Dutch name "Janke", which is the equivalent of the English "John". The city of New York was originally named New Amsterdam, and of course, Amsterdam is in Holland, from whence come the Dutch people.

So those non-Dutch people living outside of New Amsterdam/New York would use the name "Janke" to refer to the Dutch living in that area. It's very much the same thing as the Cold War practice of referring the name "Ivan" to refer to Soviets (Russian "Ivan" = English "John") or calling a Frenchman "Jacques", regardless of whether his name is really Jacques or not.

In what has always been a fairly common occurance, the Dutch of New Amsterdam/New York took the insult and turned it into a badge of honor, cheerfully calling themselves "Yankees". This is similar to Southerners proudly identifying themselves as "rednecks", another label that started out as a insult. The term "Yankee" eventually came to refer to anybody living in or around New York, and of course, for a long time New York was the USA as far as Europeans were concerned. So they picked up on the word and began to use it as a general term that meant "American".

And not that it has anything to do with the OP, but did you know that then New York Yankees baseball team was originally called the New York Highlanders?

[Nobody]

The "original" Yankee was a New Englander, in particular a rural one.

But nowadays what "Yankee" means depends on where exactly you are.

In New England it means a back-country, laconic farmer or fisherman-type.
In the northern U.S., it means a New Englander in general.
In the southern U.S., it means someone from the northern U.S.
And outside the U.S., it means any American in general.
Interesting, I never knew about the New Englander meanings.

[Nobody]

And not that it has anything to do with the OP, but did you know that then New York Yankees baseball team was originally called the New York Highlanders?
Nope. But then again, I'm not really into sports.

[Josh_dePlume]

So those non-Dutch people living outside of New Amsterdam/New York would use the name "Janke" to refer to the Dutch living in that area. It's very much the same thing as the Cold War practice of referring the name "Ivan" to refer to Soviets (Russian "Ivan" = English "John") or calling a Frenchman "Jacques", regardless of whether his name is really Jacques or not.


I thought it was the other way around: the term was used by the Dutch to refer to the English. This aricle seems to confirm this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee

[Colibri]

And not that it has anything to do with the OP, but did you know that then New York Yankees baseball team was originally called the New York Highlanders?

Actually, their original name was the Baltimore Orioles, before they moved to New York in 1903.

[samclem]

I thought it was the other way around: the term was used by the Dutch to refer to the English. This aricle seems to confirm this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee
The etymology is uncertain; one suggestion is that it derives from Dutch Janke, diminutive of Jan (John), or Jan Kees, for "John Cheese", a nickname for English settlers bestowed by the Dutch in the early days of New York City.

Note the first sentence: The etymology is uncertain.

And that's still the status.

[David Simmons]

In American, why do people in the South sometimes refer to people in the North as Yankees, yet, Europeans refer to all Americans as Yanks (short for Yankee obviously)?

YANKEE, n. In Europe, and American. In the Northern States of the Union, a New Englander. In the Southern States the word is unknown. (See DAMYANK.)

The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce.

[samclem]

In searching for material to post here, I looked in the OED.

Amazing! I never realized the term "Yank" as a shortening of "Yankee" went back that far.

1. Colloq. abbreviation of YANKEE.

1778 Conquerors 14 Give me five hundred brave and chosen men, I'll drive the Yanks from north to south again

[Josh_dePlume]

Note the first sentence: The etymology is uncertain.
Fair enough, but my point is that whenever I've seen a proposed etymology involving Dutch settlers, etc., the Dutch have been the ones using the term that became "yankee" (to refer to the English), not the ones being referred to by it. I've never encountered the second alternative, which is not to say it has never been proposed.

[samclem]

Josh. YOu're absolutely correct. Sorry if I didn't address your point.

http://www.wordorigins.org/wordory.htm#yankee

Dave Wilton's explanation at his wordsite above helps.

[elfkin477]

Being a native New Englander myself, my favorite as alwasy been the Swamp Yankee (http://www.curbstone.org/index.cfm?webpage=80), as we call certain types in Souther New England. Kind of a New England Good Ol' Boy/Redneck. And, beleive it or not, there are a lot of swamps in rural New England.


I think the link is right about the term being little known outside of Conn. I've never heard it before, even when I lived in MA. OTOH, I can probably count on my fingers the number of times I've heard new englanders refer to someone as a "yankee." It's not a well received term, and nearly always reserved for someone you'd also call an "old coot." Definitely not meant to flatter.

[kniz]

YANKEE, n. In Europe, and American. In the Northern States of the Union, a New Englander. In the Southern States the word is unknown. (See DAMYANK.)

The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce.
That Devil's Dictionary is very interesting. However, if you look under the D's there is no listing for Damyank. A dam yank would probably be someone that was working in conjunction with swamp yankees to drain the swamps. The term in the South of course is Damn Yankee. It is never Damn Yank, but always Damn Yankee. I know since I've been called that for the last 50 some years. ;)

[Telemark]

Outside of the US, a Yankee is anyone from the USA
In the US, a Yankee is anyone from back east.
In the east, a Yankee is from north of the Mason-Dixon line.
North of the Mason-Dixon line, a Yankee is from New England.
In New England, a Yankee is from Maine.
In Maine, a Yankee is from Down East.
In Down East Maine, a Yankee eats pie for breakfast. With a spoon.

[samclem]

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_260.html

Since this thread is actually something that Cecil discussed, I just moved it to the appropriate fora. See above for Cecil's original column.

I'll also tell you to search for threads about this topic. I'm sure there have been a few.

[Josh_dePlume]

In the US, a Yankee is anyone from back east.

Is this true? I can't imagine someone from California referring to someone from Georgia as a Yankee.

[samclem]

IMHO, a person who was labled from "back East" today in the US, would be assumed from above the Mason-Dixon Line. A Northerner.

[Josh_dePlume]

IMHO, a person who was labled from "back East" today in the US, would be assumed from above the Mason-Dixon Line. A Northerner.
That interpretation doesn't fit in with the progressive narrowing in Telemark's list.

[TellMeI'mNotCrazy]

Outside of the US, a Yankee is anyone from the USA
In the US, a Yankee is anyone from back east.
In the east, a Yankee is from north of the Mason-Dixon line.
North of the Mason-Dixon line, a Yankee is from New England.
In New England, a Yankee is from Maine.
In Maine, a Yankee is from Down East.
In Down East Maine, a Yankee eats pie for breakfast. With a spoon.


I can't remember quite how it went but I read a joke once where it began as above, but the last bit was "In the outhouse, a yankee is more than two shakes"

[David Simmons]

That Devil's Dictionary is very interesting. However, if you look under the D's there is no listing for Damyank. A dam yank would probably be someone that was working in conjunction with swamp yankees to drain the swamps. The term in the South of course is Damn Yankee. It is never Damn Yank, but always Damn Yankee. I know since I've been called that for the last 50 some years. ;)

Well, of course Bierce wasn't being rigorous he was just having his private kind of fun. And besides, you wouldn't expect someone born in Ohio who moved to San Francisco to be accurate.

[Zoe]

David Simmons, that is one of my favorite books!

SamClem: IMHO, a person who was labled from "back East" today in the US, would be assumed from above the Mason-Dixon Line. A Northerner.

I agree. The same is true for "East Coast." I gather that for most Westerners, they are not talking about Miami, Savannah, Charleston or the Outer Banks. I would say that the "East Coast" begins somewhere around the Cheasapeake Bay area.

I will add that I consider people from Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin to be Yanks.

I must confess to having a particular fondness for Mainers. They just seem to be a little bit "different" from any other Yanks. They remind me of Southerners in their wit and rich culture -- but without the preachiness.

[Chronos]

In the US, a Yankee is anyone from back east.Not in Montana, at least. In Montana, anyone who isn't from Montana (or possible Idaho, Wyoming, the Dakotas, or Alaska) is a Californian.

And from spending most of my life in Ohio, followed by Philadelphia and Montana, I'd use "east coast" for anything from Georgia on up. Florida I'd just call Florida, but I might even include it, depending on the context ("Hurricanes always hit the East Coast", for instance, would include Florida).

[Backwater Under_Duck]

Not in Montana, at least. In Montana, anyone who isn't from Montana (or possible Idaho, Wyoming, the Dakotas, or Alaska) is a Californian.
The Montanans that I knew referred to them as Californicators.

[chinesegril]

In the east, a Yankee is from north of the Mason-Dixon line.

i a green whit this point :)

[NE Texan]

When I lived in Houston, I knew several people that would swear up and down that anyone who lived north of Conroe, Tx (about 50 miles north of the center of Houston) was a Yankee.

[tadc]

I will add that I consider people from Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin to be Yanks.
So midwesterner=yankee? That, sir, is madness.

[NoClueBoy]

When I lived in Houston, I knew several people that would swear up and down that anyone who lived north of Conroe, Tx (about 50 miles north of the center of Houston) was a Yankee.


[raises hand]

That would be me! Actually, it was Dallas that most of us were referring too. Almost everyone in Texas is a Texan, more or less (except those weird Panhandlers). But a Dallsite is always a Damn Yankee Texan.


ftr, before anyone gets offended: --> ;) <-- (that's a winky smiley, indicating the tongue in cheekiness of this post)

[TellMeI'mNotCrazy]

Which reminds me...

I once worked as a teacher's assistant in North Carolina - amongst many, many born-and-bred, hard-core southerners. A more wonderful bunch I couldn't hope to meet, but it doens't change the fact that I was, to them, a born-and-bred, hard-core Yankee. I finally confided in one teacher that I didn't know whether to be insulted by the term Yankee? "Oh no," she said, "at least they're not calling you a Damn Yankee"

"What's the difference," asks I.

"A Yankee is someone who comes from north of the Mason-Dixon Line. A *Damn* Yankee is a Yankee that doesn't leave."

Hmmm. In hindsight, I'm thinking that wasn't very conciliatory.

[Alan Smithee]

I grew up in Arkansas, where pretty much anyone not from the South is considered a damnyankee. I'm not sure whether that would include Californians (probably), but it definitely includes Missourians! It is a very common anecdote for someone to reminisce about the day in their childhood when the penny dropped for them and they realized that damnyankee is actually two words (and often that they had been cursing in front of parents, pastors, and maiden aunts without ever realizing it or being reprimanded.)

In truth, my family is not originally from the South (we moved there when I was about three), and I don't think I ever heard the word used except as a joke or in a conversation about Southern culture. Of course, I grew up in Little Rock, not in the country.

[Clark K]

So midwesterner=yankee? That, sir, is madness.

No, it's imminently logical. If their state fought for the North in the Civil War, they're Yankees.

[Gymnopithys]

American themselves like to refer to "Yankee ingenuity"

[BrotherCadfael]

Outside of the US, a Yankee is anyone from the USA
In the US, a Yankee is anyone from back east.
In the east, a Yankee is from north of the Mason-Dixon line.
North of the Mason-Dixon line, a Yankee is from New England.
In New England, a Yankee is from Maine.
In Maine, a Yankee is from Down East.
In Down East Maine, a Yankee eats pie for breakfast. With a spoon.NO NO NO!!!!! With a knife!

[AskNott]

I live in Indiana, and Indiana soldiers wore US blue in the war between the US and the CSA. I have met folks in Texas, Georgia, Louisiana, and Florida who called me a Yankee. They showed no hostility in calling me that. We don't call them Rebs, though, even though their ancestors fought for the Gray. Nobody has ever called me a DamnYankee, at least not when I was around.

On this message board, we have members from all over the globe, so I often call myself a Yank in print just for clarity. We humans are all brothers and sisters, and it's good to remember that.

[rwjefferson]

I go with Heckwelder:

Its orgins are in the first contact between the English and the Native Americans. English was pronounced more like "Anglish" as in Angles and Saxons - Anglia (Angland = England)
Anglish...Angli... Angee...yAngee...Yankee.

Yes, the word is often spit out as a slur; especially by Oriole fans.

Peace through Liberty
rwjefferson