View Full Version : Help!!! Bible-readers needed
06-15-2000, 01:17 AM
Hey guys, I need helping finding a Biblical story and a verse. I know it was discussed in GD but I cannot find the thread (been searching for hours!) Anyway, the theme of the thread was whether atheists would go to hell - I need to know the Biblical story mentioned about God saying if you lead a good moral life, you will go to heaven. I think the name involved was Simon, but I'm not sure. Whoever quoted that story in the thread also mentioned that a famous person, I think a writer, used that story in defense of atheist morality. I need it for a debate outside of the MB, but I know it was discussed here!!
Also, there is a verse somewhere along the lines of, "God loves all people equally, gentile or Jew..." I need to know the verse so I can find it in my Bible.
Clearly, I am not religious, but I desperately need this info.
06-15-2000, 07:09 AM
There are many Bible search engines listed in Yahoo. One of them will even search the Bible in five or six languages, including Tagalog and Vulgate Latin.
06-15-2000, 10:31 AM
These seems like a GQ.
However, the Bible Search Engine I use is: http://bible.gospelcom.net/
06-15-2000, 02:09 PM
Ok, I found the verse I was looking for...but the story is missing. I think it might be the story of Simon and Gemorrah, but how the hell do you speel Gemorrah? I must not be spelling it right.
If anyone has anyidea about this thread ir story, please post it. I am going out of my freaking mind!!
06-15-2000, 02:27 PM
Gomorrah, with two o's.
06-15-2000, 02:43 PM
Eh, would that be Sodom and Gomorrah? That's in Genesis Ch.18&19. They are both places though.
What is the verse you were after? I don't think God has ever said that it is enough merely to lead a moral life - you must also accept Him.
06-15-2000, 03:13 PM
Yup, Sodom and Gomorrah, jeez. I cannot find anything!
The debate was about atheist morality, and someone posted that they knew of a person with reknown (I think a writer or director) who, when asked about his morality, quoted a Bilical parable in which it was stated that one who lives by the moral laws of God will be rewarded. I am pretty sure the name Simon was involved.
I have spent another TWO hours looking for the stupid thing,w ith no luck. I'm just going to keep looking and hope I turn up something. :)
06-15-2000, 03:26 PM
An atheist doesn't even believe there is a Hell...or a Heaven. So, isn't it a moot argument?
06-15-2000, 03:57 PM
I'm afraid I can't help you with your verse, although I'm not sure if looking for a Simon is going to help you. As far as I know, here's a listing of the Simons in the Bible:
Simon called Peter - The apostle Peter who was originally named Simon
Simon the Zealot - Apostle who isn't mentioned a whole bunch
Simon the Leper - A leper who's house Jesus was at when a rich woman annoited his (Jesus's) head with perfume.
Simon the Cyrene - Poor schumck who got snagged by the Romans and was forced to carry the cross for Jesus
Simon the Mage - Some magician who tried to buy the ability to perform miracles off of Peter
Simon the Tanner - Some guy who's house Peter hung out at. Evidentally, it's a good thing Jesus called Simon/Peter Peter since there'd be a lot of confusing stories in the Bible otherwise given how many other Simons Peter knew.
As far as I know, none of these Simons relate to a story about morality being connected to salvation.
06-15-2000, 06:19 PM
Thank you, Jophiel.
Linney - that was the discussion - if atheists do not live by the ten commandments, how do they determine morality?
Still not luck, but oh well.
06-15-2000, 06:56 PM
Is this the thread: Atheist Morality (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=24291)?
If so, I don't see any mention of the name Simon in the thread. I didn't read the thread too closely, watching people argue the obvious is boring.
If you can find the specific post it may provide more for us to work with (if it doesn't answer your question outright).
Doing some search work on hotbot and google using "atheism and Simon" in combination with various other key words did not produce any useful results.
I'll keep looking.
06-15-2000, 11:41 PM
Thanks for the help, Ob. I have read every damn GD thread the involved morality or atheism, with no luck. I am putting off looking in other forums until tomorrow.
Oh well, I have to get the damn SD!
06-16-2000, 01:24 AM
Simon I don't know about. But the part about God loving Jews and gentiles equally...well they don't say exactly that but I Corinthians 12.13, Galatians 3.28, and Colossians 3.11 all talk about them being the same before the lord, etc. Maybe that's it.
So why do you need this information so urgently? Just curious.
06-16-2000, 03:41 AM
You will never find a bible verse that says it is enough just to lead a moral life in order to gain entry to heaven. The closest thing you will find are commandments by God specifically for his chosen people (the Jews) to follow the laws God had made for them in order to gain entry into heaven. Of course, everything changed when Jesus came into the picture. Christ said "No man comes to the Father but through me" and that the only way to reach salvation was the profession of your faith in God and the acceptance of Jesus as your personal savior from sin. You won't find anything to back up your claim unless it is from the Old Testament and it is taken out of context.
06-16-2000, 02:34 PM
Oh well. I KNOW I read it somewhere, I KNOW IT!! Shit this is driving me nuts.
I found the verse I was looking for. I just KNOW I read that post somewhere, but it has disappeared.
I needed to know for a debate I was having with a Christian friend. See, we met at camp several years ago and became best friends, but I am agnostic and she is a hard-core Christian. Recently she sent me an e-mail that said that Al Gore had misquoted John 3:16, saying John 16:3. I thought this was silly and probably a typo, and I said so, and then we had a big fight (she likes Shrub, I pointed out that he smoked crack, and is God ok with that? and then she called Gore Satan's disciple and it got ugly). Anyway, she told me she has been praying for my soul because I am going to burn in hell, blah blah blah, and I remembered reading a post about that parable and I wanted to shove it down her throat, that's all.
Thanks for the help, I am going to keep trying, we'll see how it turns out.
06-16-2000, 02:38 PM
I have read every damn GD thread the involved morality or atheism, with no luck.
Hee Hee. I read this twice before realizing that you meant "Great Debates."
06-16-2000, 02:42 PM
Oh, and here (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/algore.htm) is the real story behind the "John 16:3" stuff. Turns out that Shrub said it.
06-16-2000, 02:49 PM
Sorry. Not Shrub, but Bush the former President is the person most credibly associated with that gaffe.
06-16-2000, 02:57 PM
Bush, Shrub. What's the difference?
06-16-2000, 04:10 PM
This sounds to me like the story of J.C. in Simon the Pharisee's house, where Mary Magdalene annoints J.C.'s feet and Simon is disturbed at JC's letting the tramp touch him, so JC lectures Simon. Luke 7, somewhere.
06-16-2000, 06:16 PM
MK, you're right about the Simon/Luke 7 thing, but I don't think that's what she's looking for. The jist of said story is that Jesus is kickin' at Simon's house and some sinful woman comes in, cries before Jesus and washes his feet. Simon gets upset that the common rabble is bothering the Son of God and Jesus tells Simon that the woman is simply showing her grief at her sins and appreciation for the one who can save her. However, it mentions nothing of morality alone saving you as the woman is throwing herself at the feet of Christ.
06-17-2000, 02:14 AM
I'm telling you, you won't find anything that says morality alone it a ticket to paradise. A statement like that goes against the entire premise of the New Testament, which is that Jesud is the only source of salvation.
Duck Duck Goose
06-17-2000, 11:31 AM
Sara, there's no such Bible verse. However, it is possible that the story you're thinking of is something that's found in Jewish legends. There are a lot of "Bible-type" stories that aren't necessarily in the Bible. An awful lot of Jewish rabbis who are credited with stories in my copy of Gates to the Old City (edited by Raphael Patai) are named Simon, Shim'on, or Simeon.
It's also possible it's from the Mormon Bible, or the Catholic Books of the Apocrypha, or just generally a "happy thoughts" writer from the Biblical era.
Hope this helps.
If you can think of anybody who was posting in the thread, I'll help you look. Just putting in "Simon" and "Great Debates" brings up 44 threads for me, and hey, life's too short, you know?
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