Alien or Alien's

[Cuthbert Allgood]

Just wanted to know what you guys thought was the best film and why. Although I thought the first one was brilliant i have to say i prefered the sequel

[Tripler]

I thought Aliens was better, solely because it introduced the Colonial Marines. That sort of thing kind of gave the story a new direction anyway.

Tripler
I'll happily take a pulsed-plasma rifle to a queen any day.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

There was a sequel?

:D

[Padeye]

While I thought Aliens was an excellent movie that can stand in its own right even apart from being a good sequal I don't think it equalled the original. Alien got its terror from what you though was beind the door and that anticipation can be a hell of a lot more scary than seeing the actual monster. The othe sequels had ther "suck" knob turned to 11.

[Johnny L.A.]

Aliens: Rambo in Outer Space.

The first one was better.

[GorillaMan]

I'm torn between the two. Alien was a masterful use of suspense. Aliens was damn good fun. Both were highly creative. Hmmmm....

[ultrafilter]

They're very different movies, so it's tough to compare them in any sense other than which one you like better. I love a good horror film, so I'm going with the first.

[HPL]

That's like asking me if Godfather 1 or 2 was better. Both the original and the sequel were great and I just can't decide which I liked better.

[SPOOFE]

I'll be the brave one to say it: While I was greatly impressed with the original Alien, it hasn't aged nearly as well as Aliens. There are too many moments in the first that are just ridiculously cheesy, too many significant plot holes (like how did the alien grow to adulthood so fast, without any food source?).

Aliens, on the other hand, is a crafted masterpiece, excellent pacing, no goddamned subplot about the fucking cat, and awesome, awesome, AWESOME scenery, sets, and props.

I even liked Alien 3, despite its stuttered and jilted presentation. Hmm... I wonder if anyone will make an Alien 4? Because there certainly hasn't been an Alien 4 yet. Nope. Not at all. Non. Existent.

[Tuco]

I'm voting for the (non-extended) Aliens due to it standing the test of time much better than Alien (as already mentioned). The Colonial Marines are widely regarded as the most kickass soldiers in movie history and to see them torn apart by near-invisible monsters a major attraction. I know a lot of people say Alien is better because bacause you never see the Alien, but you don't really see one fully in Aliens until the very end; the only scenes where we see the Aliens beforehand are the first encounter where it's mostly fuzzy video links and the Aliens attacking where we see a few glimpses but not much more.

[Alessan]

One's a horror film, the other's an action movie, both are at the very top of their respective genres. Your preference is based on what kind of flick you like best.

[paulberserker]

It's a good point Alessan makes.

Right. Aliens is my favourite film, ever. I've seen it upwards of 150 times, quite simply because it's a film that never lets me down. I know it literally off by heart, and I still get a buzz from watching it, because for its genre, its the best film ever made. Nothing comes close for sheer suspense, all out action, build up, acting or quotable lines, plus the innovation building from the previous film (which I also really like). It's one of the few films where there's not a wasted second, and due to the fact CGI wasn't about in 1986, it's not dated badly at all, similar to the original Star Wars (non SE)

And tell me 'I say we nuke the site from orbit' isn't one of the best lines in a film ever

Oh, and the extended Directors Cut is better than the Theatrical release

Pauly T, proud owner of the 9 disc DVD boxset

[lissener]

I like the one without the apostrophe the best.

[msmith537]

I liked both. Alien was a really creepy space horror movie that defined the genre while Aliens was kind of a futuristic war movie that really expanded the Alien 'universe'.

Alien3 was kind of dull. It wasn't terrible and it did kind of continue the story, Unfortunately, it felt very watered down after Camerons epic sequal. One alien instead of many. No weapons. No hair. No Hicks or Newt. Just Riply, Bishops head, and Charles S Dutton with a cast of identical bald English dudes.

Alien Resurection was entertaining but didn't really add much to the series (or the genre). Reckless arrogant scientists, corrupt military types, space pirates, robots with human emotions, bunvh of misfits trapped on a massive claustrophobic ship with Aliens. Seen it all before but better.

[shy guy]

I agree that they're such different movies that it's difficult to compare them, but I'll go with Aliens just because there are a few bits in Alien that seem to drag, and I hate that female crew member who isn't Ripley.

As mentioned above, Aliens has aged extremely well; the only parts of it that scream "80's!" to me are the space marines, who irritate me because they're just so ridiculous in, as was also mentioned above, a Rambo-esque way (the fact that they're all torn to bits makes them easier to take).

On the other hand, Alien has some terrifying scenes, and I think the android-subplot is excellent, so it's not an easy decision. I think Alien looks way more dated than Aliens, for some reason.

[RikWriter]

I'm more a SF fan than a horror fan, so I prefer Aliens, as it's a SF movie while Alien is more of a horror flick. It's also directed by James Cameron, who's responsible for some of my favorite movies (excluding Titanic).

[CalMeacham]

Aliens -- no question. I didn't like Alien.

Cute set-up, and it was absolutely inspired to get H.R. Giger to design the various Alien stuff. If anyone else had done so, I don't think this film would be on anyone's good film list.


Bt the damned Alien doesn't make any sense (where the hell did it get all the bulk to go from the chest-burster to the full-size thing?), and the crew acts ike the epitome of bad monster-movie dumb. "There's a monster loose on this ship. We'll go over here. You go over there, where it's dark." In a situation where staying close together is essential and you want someone to watch your back, thy split up multiple times for no good reason. They invent a tracking device to watch for the thing, then don't use it. When they're keeping tabs on its motion through the ducts while Captain Dallas is going through it, they just tell him to run -- and not in which direction. As in lots of Badfilm, after something fails once they never even bring it up again. They've got the Spring-Loaded Cat for cheap thrills. And, jst when you thought you knw how things were go9ing, they bring in Ash the Android/Robot Thing for 'way out in Left Field. (And what's with the trying to choke Ripley with the magazine, anyway?)


The flaws show up the fragmented history of the film. Aparently originally they wanted to have the ship's computer siding with the Alien, it being the superior Beast, but later this got switched to Ash himself doing it for the same reasons (this is why you have to pay close attention in your android-programming classes. Have them obey the Three Laws, even if it violates copyright! The Ass you save may be your own!) I lost any empathy with this crew of losers long before they bought it.


And I'm not even going to bring in the whole ripped-off-from-It! thing again. I'v said it too many times.



Aliens, on the other hand, had a unity of vision from the start. Cameron knows and appreciates good SF, and the astonishing ability to get it funded and put into production. Rare that you get those qualities together in one place. He tried to be faithful to the original (even so far as copying Ridley Scott's love of steam-filled sets, an other such trademarks), while at the same time trying to be logically consistent. is Aliens don't grow up on a Breatharian diet, his androids obey hree Laws, His Alien Queen answers the question of where those damned eggs come from (the full version of Alien seems to elimnate the need for them), while setting up the climactic sequence. I felt ceated by Scott's version -- he left out too much and they seemed to make t iup as they went along. I loved Cameron's version. He didn't use those monster-detectors for cheap shots, but actually used them consistently to build suspense (also a good way to save production costs).

I know Cameron is listed in another thread as a vastly overrated director, but in my book he gets high marks for producing, writing, and directing Terminator, Terminator 2, Aliens, and - yes -- the Abyss. (He still has to answer for True Lies and for writing Rambo, but I'll give him break for Titanic.)

[RikWriter]

I know Cameron is listed in another thread as a vastly overrated director, but in my book he gets high marks for producing, writing, and directing Terminator, Terminator 2, Aliens, and - yes -- the Abyss. (He still has to answer for True Lies and for writing Rambo, but I'll give him break for Titanic.)


True Lies was a very entertaining film...I don't think he has anything to apologize for with that movie.

[Sam Stone]

Different movies. Alien was horror, Aliens was action/adventure with horror elements thrown in. It's hard to compare movies across genres.

One thing I liked about Aliens was that the scene with the marines on the ship was lifted right out of Starship Troopers, including much of the dialog. That one five minute scene got across more of the book than did Verhoeven's long dreck of a movie.

[Princhester]

'I say we nuke the site from orbit' isn't one of the best lines in a film ever

[Scissorjack]

'I say we nuke the site from orbit' isn't one of the best lines in a film ever

"If it bleeds...we can kill it." is, though. I know, wrong movie, but Predator was just Rambo divided by Alien anyway.

[Scoundrel Swanswater]

I prefer Aliens as well, for all the stated reasons.

The best line is "Why don't you put her in charge?!?!"

BTW I just recently saw the new (non-approved by David Fincher) version of Alien 3, and it was actually pretty good.
If you compare it to the version that was released in cinema's you will notice that there is a lot more story in it and a LOT more suspense.

[Futile Gesture]

Alien is one of my most favourite films ever. Atmospheric and excellent directing and acting. Generally I don't care for "horror", but Alien avoids everything that annoys me in horror films while still being scary.

Aliens is a great movie in very different ways, but made even more scary (in a bad way) by an intrusive apostrophe.

[msmith537]

The flaws show up the fragmented history of the film. Aparently originally they wanted to have the ship's computer siding with the Alien, it being the superior Beast, but later this got switched to Ash himself doing it for the same reasons (this is why you have to pay close attention in your android-programming classes. Have them obey the Three Laws, even if it violates copyright! The Ass you save may be your own!) I lost any empathy with this crew of losers long before they bought it.


I disagree. It makes perfect sense. The reasons Ash screwed over the crew was because he was TOLD to by the Weyland-Yutani corporation, not because he felt the Alien was a superior life form. The ship's AI, 'Mother' didn't appear to care one way or the other.

It did seem that he did get a smug satisfaction from his work though. This seems to be a subtle but constant theme across all the Alien movies - the robots (really we are only introduced to three - Ash the medical officer on the Nostromo, Bishop and the one in Alien Resurrection) seem to admire the Alien lifeform for their simplicity of function. Humans seem to be viewed with either contempt for like one would view a small irrational child.

Actually, I think it is quite brilliant. AIs in movies are always either insane or sociopathic, dream of being human, or simply appliances with slave-like obedience. I think that Aliens (and perhaps Blade Runner) is one of the few movies where an intelligent humanoid robot would act like I would expect it to act. They do their job because they are programmed to but you get just the slightest hint of condescendtion.

Example - Ash is so arrogant that we assume from the beginning that he is human. Bishop is a little more laid back and almost appears childlike in his compliance until you realize that it is the humans he is treating childishly - Reluctantly playing the knife game with Hudson, his occasional quips ("not bad for a human", "I may be artificial, but I'm not stupid"), his desire to be shut down rather than refurbished, and of course his admiration of the Alien.

Anyhow, that's my theory on the AI in Aliens that I just made up as I typed it.

[RealityChuck]

Since Alien was perhaps the most idiotic piece of trash I have ever seen (the characters in Plan 9 from Outer Space looked like a bunch of Einsteins compared to the idiots in alien), I guess Aliens had to be better. I didn't bother seeing it -- I had already wasted too much time on the crap.

[Sam Stone]

What in particular didn't you like about it?

[Incubus]

Aliens, for a couple of memorable scenes-

The queen alien impaling Bishob with her tail, and ripping him in two. I must have been 5 or 6 when I saw this, and didn't pick up on the fact that Bishop was an android (or I forgot). That scene was just so gory it really freaked me out. I know sometimes the best horror is implied, but if done right, the in-your-face carnage can have a strong impact. I also remember later on watching the movie with my friend, and putting the VCR in slo-mo to see how exactly the Queen tore him in half (it was actually pretty cool, she wrapped her hands around his shoulder and hip, and sort of twisted him apart. Added to the fact that the scene is so sudden- up until then you think they're out of the clear.

The Queen vs RipleyLoader. Very cool. Somehow I find it fitting that a giant alien must be overcome by an equally giant robot exoskeleton. :p

[Don Draper]

I'll be the brave one to say it: While I was greatly impressed with the original Alien, it hasn't aged nearly as well as Aliens. There are too many moments in the first that are just ridiculously cheesy, too many significant plot holes (like how did the alien grow to adulthood so fast, without any food source?).

Well, aside from feasting on Kane's guts, the alien was discovered (by the unlucky Parker & Lambert) toward the end of the flick in the Nostromo's rations supply room, with enough gunk spewed all over their stores to indicate it had made at least one other trip there before. (IIRC, Parker picks up a storage bin covered with gunk and says something like "it's been in here!") So, the alien was obviously snacking on the crew's own ration supplies - in between snacking on the crew. (Why the dimwitted crew didn't think to put an alarm on their supply room is another question.)

[Snickers]

Aliens is good, but its goodness factor is dragged down by Bill Paxton's constant whining. Alien gets the nod.

I think it's interesting how Cameron likes to reuse actors - there's the guy who played Kyle in The Terminator in [/i]Aliens[/i], along with the aforementioned whiney Bill Paxton.

[Tripler]

. . . there's the guy who played Kyle in The Terminator in [/i]Aliens[/i], along with the aforementioned whiney Bill Paxton.

That's Michael Biehn (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000299/). The guy seems to have been typecast as the scruffy underdog.

Tripler
But I agree, Bill Paxton whines too damn much.

[ElectricZ]

But I agree, Bill Paxton whines too damn much.

For my money, the whiney Hudson was a great character, and it worked because the other characters made no attempt to hide the fact he was getting on their nerves. In most movies, the whiner just groans and moans and the other characters ignore it, or there is one token scene of someone slapping him/her around.

But in Aliens, Hudson is treated realistically. Before the marines are decimated, he's cocky and talks too much. After they get their asses kicked, he turns cowardly and talks too much, because he's still the same guy without the bravado. He's unapologetically selfish and cowardly, and his behavior and dialogue in the movie fit perfectly. And it's obvious that his fellow soldiers are sick of him as a result. I've never seen a movie where one character gets told off so many times for being such a jerk. It makes Hudson and the other characters seem much more like real people, which in turn made me feel bad when they got taken out. (Another nice touch: Hicks mouthing Vasquez's "There they are" line while standing behind her, followed by a tired half smile. He's heard it a thousand times.)

So I for one felt bad when Hudson got dragged under the floor by the aliens -- even though he was yapping the whole way down...

EZ

[BMax]

'I say we nuke the site from orbit' isn't one of the best lines in a film ever
Aliens had so many good lines in it...

"It doesn't matter when it's Arcturian"

"Game over, man, game over"

"I say we dust off & nuke the site from orbit, that's the only way to be sure"

"It doesn't mean we're engaged"

"Get away from her, you BITCH!"

[Miller]

I was going to say exactly what ElectricZ said about Hudson. He's always been my favorite character in the movie, both for comic relief (he has some great lines) and for the added dramatic tension he brought to the human side of the film. Even better, though, was when he finally goes down, he goes down swinging. Despite all his pissing and moaning, when it came down to a fight, he didn't run and he didn't hide. He stood there and dished out hot pulse rifle death until the xenomorphs eviscerated his thorassic cavity.

[Alessan]

That's Michael Biehn (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000299/). The guy seems to have been typecast as the scruffy underdog.



Actually, what he's been typcast as is the seasoned, highly trained professional soldier, preferably a Navy SEAL:


Terminator - elite soldier from the future.

Aliens - Space Marine NCO

The Abyss - SEAL Lieutenant.

Navey SEALS - SEAL Lieutenant.

The Rock - SEAL Commander