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View Full Version : Standard EBAY rant #2 (lame)


unclviny
10-12-2004, 01:04 AM
The fucking thing only costs $10.00 and it weighs less than 2 pounds and you want $16.95 to ship it from Los Angeles, CA to Baton Rouge, LA (UPS ground) and I'm the asshole here?.

And now for a related rant:
2.5" HDD enclosures are basically 6" x 8" x 1.5" and they are powered off of a USB cable
But
3.5" enclosures are almost as big as entire laptops and use external AC adaptors?, WTF?

Unclviny

danceswithcats
10-12-2004, 03:00 AM
FWIW, as an eBay seller, once you win the auction, and I have verification that you've sent the appropriate amount to PayPal, I have to:

Print your invoice
Provide a box
Provide peanuts, bubble wrap, or whatever
Properly pack the item
Weigh and measure the box
Go back to the PC and print your shipping label
Securely affix the label to the box
Put the box in the truck and take it to mailbox R' us

By the time I get back to my office/home, I've spent an hour of my time. So yes, I typically start with $15 S&H, unless the item is very heavy, and then it's more. For one buyer, I delivered the extremely large and heavy object at .50/mile-she was 120 miles away.

Not trying to gouge anyone, but my time has value also.

GorillaMan
10-12-2004, 03:05 AM
On the UPS site, I make it about $7 for ground shipping - and that's choosing to drop it at a UPS location. $10 for decent packaging, time, etc doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

DrDeth
10-12-2004, 03:33 AM
FWIW, as an eBay seller, once you win the auction, and I have verification that you've sent the appropriate amount to PayPal, I have to:

Print your invoice
Provide a box
Provide peanuts, bubble wrap, or whatever
Properly pack the item
Weigh and measure the box
Go back to the PC and print your shipping label
Securely affix the label to the box
Put the box in the truck and take it to mailbox R' us

By the time I get back to my office/home, I've spent an hour of my time. So yes, I typically start with $15 S&H, unless the item is very heavy, and then it's more.
Not trying to gouge anyone, but my time has value also.

Wrong, you "ignorant slut." :D You don't get paid for your time & energy out of "S&H". S&H is for the postage, the box, and some packing materials. Your time does have value- and it comes form what we call your "profit" which is included in your selling price. Now clearly by this post, you're a rip-off artist who has no problem at all at cheating eBay out of their fees. You have every right to value your time at $100/hour if you like- just jack your selling price by that amount.... and then be sure to give eBay their cut as you agreed to! :wally

Try telling the IRS that your "time" is deductable/expensable as "S&H". Under the Tax codes, eBays rules, and GAAP it isn't. :dubious: :rolleyes:

unclviny: ask the seller why it's so high. If he tells you it is for his "time", report him to eBay for "fee avoidance". You can then refuse to pay it, but it might start a shitstorm. Did they list that fee in their ToS before you bid?

GorillaMan
10-12-2004, 09:05 AM
You don't get paid for your time & energy out of "S&H". S&H is for the postage, the box, and some packing materials.
S&H = Shipping and handling. If handling doesn't involve the wrapping-up of the item and the taking it to a point of dispatch or arrangment of collection, what does it stand for?

GorillaMan
10-12-2004, 09:09 AM
And also on handling:

A posting and handling fee can cover only the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item.
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/listing-surcharges.html

Again, how is handling anything other than time?

DrDeth
10-12-2004, 11:03 AM
"Handling" means the box, packing materials and what you pay OTHERS to pack or ship. Not yourself. Read it again: "A posting and handling fee can cover only the seller's reasonable costs ..." Paying yourself for your time is not a "cost", it's your "profit" or "draw".

Roland Orzabal
10-12-2004, 12:09 PM
I agree with DrDeth. "Shipping" is for the cost of materials and postage required for that specific item, and "handling" is to cover the cost of those you pay to handle the item for you, so you don't have to do it yourself. In the case of an Ebay seller, if the post office was five miles away and a disability prevented you from driving, you might give a friend gas money to take the item to be shipped, and that could reasonably be included in the "handling" charge.

Even if you don't accept the argument that payment to oneself for one's time and effort falls under "profit", which seems accurate to me, there's only one other category in which it might logically be placed. That category would be "overhead", and overhead should be included in the cost of the item.

Personally, when I sell items on Ebay, I charge whatever the cost of shipping is rounded up to the nearest dollar. I have more than a sufficient supply of boxes from the stuff I've bought, and styrofoam peanuts are easily reusable. Even if that weren't the case, boxes can easily be obtained free of charge, and newspaper works as well as styrofoam (I'll gladly chip in the fifty cents that today's edition will cost you). $15.00 shipping for something like a DVD pisses me off to no end...the only reason for it is to disguise the price you actually want for the item, and avoid the Ebay fees at the same time.

GorillaMan
10-12-2004, 12:10 PM
...the box, packing materials... = "packaging"

what you pay OTHERS = "mailing"

...so "and handling" means....one of these all over again? :dubious:

Roland Orzabal
10-12-2004, 12:40 PM
...so "and handling" means....one of these all over again? :dubious:

No, because "what you pay others" != mailing. A warehouse employee who fetches the item and takes it to be delivered has nothing to do with "mailing". "Mailing" is a single item under the "shipping" category -- which also includes cost of materials -- that signifies the specific cost of sending the item. Because both "mailing" and "packaging" are elements of "shipping", they cannot be included in "...and handling".

A side note: I hate using this many quotation marks, but I can think of no other way to signify the deliberate use of a specific term, save for italics...and that would (IMO) be much more annoying.

Balle_M
10-12-2004, 02:30 PM
The fucking thing only costs $10.00 and it weighs less than 2 pounds and you want $16.95 to ship it from Los Angeles, CA to Baton Rouge, LA (UPS ground) and I'm the asshole here?.



Not lame at all.

I had a freakin' RIFLE shipped from Arizona to my house in West Virginia for less than that.

If someone wants more than the actual shipping charges plus a couple of bucks, I don't even bid. If you want to make an easy $10 extra profit on each sale, add it on to your reserve price.

Munch
10-12-2004, 03:05 PM
unclviny, was the shipping cost posted on the auction page, or did the seller say that shipping would be determined at the end of the auction?

If the case is that it was posted, it's your own damned fault for not including that cost into your bid. If there's an item with $100 shipping, and it's worth $150, it should only be getting $50-60 bids. Auctions that I typically watch prove that point. If you failed to take notice, then you've learned your lesson.

If not, then the seller's S&H costs are a bit high. I don't mind paying a few more dollars for a decent package job - but there's a limit.

AncientHumanoid
10-12-2004, 03:26 PM
Whenever I list something, right after I take the pics, I put it all in the box I will use as though I were about to ship it. But I don't seal it all up. That way I can weigh the whole package and I have an idea about dimensions. The way I use to do it, I would then go to both USPS and UPS and check the shipping costs (for the longest distance on UPS). I may round up a bit, just to be on the safe side, but nothing extreme. Like $10.00 for a shipping cost of $8.32.

I have plenty of boxes and cushioning material from all the shit I've bought on eBay, so not much cost there.


One neat little tool that eBay has now is the shipping calculator. Especially useful for large or odd dimension items. I've never been out anything extra using that, as you can add in a reasonable handling fee. Shipping Calculator (http://pages.ebay.com/services/buyandsell/shippingcenter7.html)


As for sellers listing items with too high (imo) of S&H charge, I don't bid. Make your profit in the price, not the S&H.

DrDeth
10-12-2004, 03:55 PM
unclviny, was the shipping cost posted on the auction page, or did the seller say that shipping would be determined at the end of the auction?

If the case is that it was posted, it's your own damned fault for not including that cost into your bid. If there's an item with $100 shipping, and it's worth $150, it should only be getting $50-60 bids. Auctions that I typically watch prove that point. If you failed to take notice, then you've learned your lesson.

.

The whole "bid on the net of the price + S&H and don't worry about how much just the S&H is" argument is specious, since when the seller jacks up the S&H and thus reduces the price, he is cheating eBay. Ebay transactions are based quite a bit on trust , and I don't trust those who start out by cheating eBay. Besides, this little trick does end up costing me more as then eBay has to charge more for all the sellers.

But you do ask a legit question- however, one I already asked.

AncientHumanoid
10-12-2004, 04:00 PM
While we're on eBay...


List something in the S&H. If it says e-mail for costs or that S&H will be figured at close of auction, I won't bid. Period. Why? Because that is a pretty good clue they are about to gouge you. trust me on this.

Reserve pricing abuses. If you have an item that is selling on eBay for 4400 - $500, don't list it at $.99 with a reserve of what you see other auctions ending at. JESUS! If you can't afford to take less than $250 for it, start the listing at $250! Works for me every time. Most reserves seems to be from people just started in selling, though, so maybe they're afraid. Hey, that's why you do a little research, right? You wouldn't list your car in the paper without checking Blue Book first, woyuld you? Other people are doing it to get a lower listing fee. Yes, I know reserve pricing is there to protect the seller, I just think too many people are way too stupid about its use.

The eBay forums. Just try to go there and ask a question (or answer one) about certain eBay practices or policies. You know, I did not realise that 1.3 million stupid twerps can now instantly give out wrong, misleading, or foolish advice. They can also flame up at a moment's notice for no discernable cause. Wow. Thanks for providing such a helpful place to discuss eBay, eBay.

BurnMeUp
10-12-2004, 05:33 PM
Here's what steams my broccoli about this.

I've had an auction or two where I post my S&H costs right there in the auction so it's no surprise.

Someone sees it, bids. sometimes makes several bids to win it.

Then they try to argue the S&H charges with me.

We're not talking like $15 to ship a book here. I was shipping 6 movies (vhs) I wanted the buyer to pay $10 for the packaging and shipping.

Again this was communicated up front.

My stance, you don't like it, don't bid you whiny bitch.

asterion
10-12-2004, 05:58 PM
I was looking for a router on eBay and someone had one listed Buy it Now for $15.95 with the shipping $15.95. So, basically, they were getting 32 dollars (about what the router would've cost me new off Amazon) if anyone was dumb enough to not read the shipping and handling cost.

AncientHumanoid
10-12-2004, 06:04 PM
The Router (http://www.smemporium.com/7112-t2-router.jpg) with 3/4" Roundover Bit (http://www.carbidespecialties.com/Routers/ROUNDOVER.GIF)

Bad News Baboon
10-12-2004, 06:10 PM
This reminds me of an auction I had recently.

When I entered the weight on e-bay's calculator, I accidently hit 17 instead of 1 pound. The s+h, which should have only been 5 bucks, ended up costing something like $35.00.

I had no idea I did that until someone contacted me to ask me if that could possibly true.

The sad thing is, I already had 4 bids (who obviously didn't pay any head to what s+h was). The s+h was almost double the price of the item itself!

Mistakes do happen! While there are some e-bay sellers that love to jack with sellers in regards to s+h, not everyone out there is. I changed the cost of s+h, even though I technically didn't have to.

GorillaMan
10-12-2004, 06:26 PM
I hate to suggest that there's an American dominance in this thread...but...ummm...there is.


When I sell CDs (and I try to only sell things worth buying), over half have gone overseas. To all corners, USA, Oz, at least one to Singapore. All I do is offer UK postage and international postage. And no, the international postage doesn't directly correlate to the exact weight you expect on the exact flight deleivered by the exact UPS employee you expect.



BUTTTTTT....

Presenting the the complete cost upfront means people will bid for what I'm selling.




(If you really want yet another description - most of the LPs I want are stateside, but if the eBay lister doesn't list international postage as an option (depite worldwide availability) I'll ignore him as an idiot.

GorillaMan
10-12-2004, 06:27 PM
ACCCCKk!!!!!! None of my quotes appeared in that!!!!!!!!!

yosemite
10-12-2004, 07:17 PM
I do something similar to what NoClueBoy does.

I don't want to take a loss on shipping and handling, but I don't necessarily want to make a killing either. What I have been doing lately is weight the package (usually it's books) and estimate the how much it would cost to ship it to the farthest distance in the USA. Then I add on about 50 cents for the packaging (if I'm using a nice box that I bought for shipping). I also tack on a little bit for whatever money is taken out from PayPal (since most of my buyers pay through PayPal).

Usually it doesn't come out to more than a dollar or two more than the actual shipping cost. I try to keep the shipping cost as low as possible, because people don't want to pay too much just to have a few paperback books shipped to them. So anything over, say, $3.50 (unless I am selling a lot of books) is too high. (I usually send things through media mail or first class.)

I don't buy a $10.00 shipping fee and handling on a DVD, for instance. That's bullshit. I know how much shipping costs, and I personally add on a little extra as a cushion so I don't take a loss on shipping costs, so I'm not against the practice. But $10 for something that costs maybe $2-3 to mail? Come on.

astro
10-12-2004, 07:28 PM
I generally quote flat rates on all my shipping costs. Sometimes I come out ahead, sometimes I don't, esp for west coast buyers (I'm in MD), but I generally even out. I have relatively few people argue shipping with me if I'm listing a flat rate, and I don't have weigh and measure the damn box for every transaction.

If you don't like my policy, don't bid.