George Will: Watergate of 1980?

[Jinx]

Did anyone catch the report on NPR that George Will stole President Jimmy Carter's notes and turned them over to the Reagan camp? Is this ethical journalism? Shouldn't he be forced to resign from his "holoier than thou" position?
Someone ought to tie that man up by his bowtie for a pubic (sic) stoning!

What a SOB! I hope he chokes on that giant silver spoon sticking out of his mouth! - Jinx

[tomndebb]

Is there a debate, here? Or was this supposed to be placed in the Pit?

Sanctimomious George's little bit of dishonesty happened almost a quarter century ago and has been known, publicly, for years. (I hope that this was an item in a larger "election misdeeds" story on NPR and not a whole news item.)

I'm not sure what you want to do with this thread. (I suppose that if you don't get a paper with Will's column, you could print the thread and put it face up at the bottom of a bird cage.)

[John Mace]

Can we get a cite for this? I remember there was a controversy about Will being a Reagan advisor and also a TV commentator on the debates when he declared Reagan the winner of the debate. I never heard about stealing notes.

Surely you meant for this to be in the Pit...

[Guinastasia]

I don't have a cite handy at the moment-sorry!-but it's pretty well-known that someone stole one of Carter's briefing books and passed it to the Reagan team.

Whether or not it was Will, I can't say.

[Apos]

Can we get a cite for this? I remember there was a controversy about Will being a Reagan advisor and also a TV commentator on the debates when he declared Reagan the winner of the debate.

Whoa. There was a time when that sort of thing was controversial???

[jshore]

Well, I think the controversial part is that in analyzing the debate, he didn't bother to note that he had been a debate advisor for Reagan.

[Loopydude]

It's easy enough to find cites. Will didn't steal the briefings; somebody else involved with Reagan's campaign apparently did, though I don't think anyone knows who that person is for certain. Will certainly used the notes to help plan for the debates. All involved knew the notes were stolen, and it was most definitely unethical. However, Carter is probably the only candidate in the last 100 years who would have, in his opponents' shoes, done the ethical thing and returned such stolen intelligence himself. Will tried to downlplay his involvement in the affair, even after writing a column praising Reagan's performance (gee, I wonder how he did so well, George...). When he got caught, Will was generally unapologetic, essentially saying had he known he was going to be raked over the coals for it, he wouldn't have done it; but he expressed no other remorse for his actions. That's pretty much all there was to the episode. Will's a hypocritically sanctimonious, rhetorically disingenuous twat, but you hardly need to know about the Carter episode to figure that out.

[Jinx]

It's easy enough to find cites. Will didn't steal the briefings; somebody else involved with Reagan's campaign apparently did, though I don't think anyone knows who that person is for certain.

Gee, we should have guessed all Republicans sleep in the same bed with such high-standing, ethical people like Richard Nixon. He's the poster-child of fair play.

Carter is probably the only candidate in the last 100 years who would have, in his opponents' shoes, done the ethical thing and returned such stolen intelligence himself.

Yes, that is the most amazing thing about Jimmy Carter. He is a man of integrity.

Will's a hypocritically sanctimonious, rhetorically disingenuous twat, but you hardly need to know about the Carter episode to figure that out.

Yeah, like I said...he deserves a public stoning!

BTW, Carter himself recebtly announced it was Will. I'm trying to find a cite for this. I was hoping this thread may bring others to my aid. - Jinx

[Jinx]

Is there a debate, here? Or was this supposed to be placed in the Pit?

Sanctimomious George's little bit of dishonesty happened almost a quarter century ago and has been known, publicly, for years. (I hope that this was an item in a larger "election misdeeds" story on NPR and not a whole news item.)

I'm not sure what you want to do with this thread. (I suppose that if you don't get a paper with Will's column, you could print the thread and put it face up at the bottom of a bird cage.)

A quarter of a century later, and the Teflon President lives on in as Mr. Righteous. I'm sorry, but this really burns me. And, not enough has been said about this openly. But, I'm sure, he's got a million Patsies (ala Oliver North) to take the blame. Even posthumously, Reagan rides off in sunset blinding America's eyes to the truth about this man in a suit of teflon armor. - Jinx :mad:

[Captain Lance Murdoch]

And people still refer to ABC as part of the "liberal media."

[elucidator]

And what the fuck is it about bow ties? George F. Will, Tucker Carlson, that Ichabod Crane looking guy who shows up on Lehrer every once in a while. Its like prissy little twits with stainless steel sphincters who crave to present the world with one entirely pointless expression of indiviual eccentricity, but one without any risk, that can offend no one, but yet makes one the teensiest bit odd.

I mean, love beads and pachouli oil I can understand. But bow ties and Old Spice....creepy.

[John Mace]

A quarter of a century later, and the Teflon President lives on in as Mr. Righteous. I'm sorry, but this really burns me. And, not enough has been said about this openly. But, I'm sure, he's got a million Patsies (ala Oliver North) to take the blame. Even posthumously, Reagan rides off in sunset blinding America's eyes to the truth about this man in a suit of teflon armor. - Jinx :mad:

Still waiting either for your cite that Will stole anything, or a retraction of that part of your OP. You being so concerened with the truth and all... :)

[Evil Captor]

Still waiting either for your cite that Will stole anything, or a retraction of that part of your OP. You being so concerened with the truth and all... :)

I can't offer a cite, but I heard the interview on NPR too, and Carter categorically stated that Will stole the notes and used them to rehearse Reagan for the debates. He may have misspoke, but that is what he said.

More likely, in my mind, is that Will obtained the notes from whoever did steal them -- it is hard to see how Will could have been in a position to steal them personally -- and used them.

He's still a total asshole and a thief by association for using them. But we all know that.

[John Mace]

Funny thing is that there is not one single cite in this whole thread.

I've googled every combo of "Will..Reagan...Carter...Debate...notes...stolen" that I can think of, and haven't found anything.

No cite, no credibility. Sorry, guys.

[Manduck]

Funny thing is that there is not one single cite in this whole thread.

I've googled every combo of "Will..Reagan...Carter...Debate...notes...stolen" that I can think of, and haven't found anything.

No cite, no credibility. Sorry, guys.

Carter made the allegation on a recent episode of Fresh Air. They don't have the transcripts on line, but if you want you can listen to it here (http://freshair.npr.org/day_fa.jhtml?display=day&todayDate=10/21/2004). He mostly talks about a book he just wrote, but they get into other things later in the interview.

[John Mace]

Carter made the allegation on a recent episode of Fresh Air.

Just to be clear: "Carter said it in an interview" is not a cite.

Over in the ObL tape thread we have a Larry King interview of Walter Cronkite saying he thinks Karl Rove is a likely source of that tape.

[Manduck]

Just to be clear: "Carter said it in an interview" is not a cite.

Who has to say it, and in what context, in order for it to be a cite?

[Guinastasia]

John Mace, are you disputing that it was Will who stole the book, or that the book was stolen in the first place?

[John Mace]

Who has to say it, and in what context, in order for it to be a cite?

I'm not an authority on what a "cite" is, but politicians often get their facts mixed up or exagerate. Speaking only for myself, I'd be happy with an article published in a major newspaper by a journalist that can be cross-referenced to an original source.

John Mace, are you disputing that it was Will who stole the book, or that the book was stolen in the first place?

Mostly the former, but I've never heard about the latter, so I'd prefer both. Several people seem so certain, I don't know why it would be hard to find a cite, if either is true. And like I said, I did quite a bit of googling and came up with absolutely nothing. I'm not saying that I know either claim to be false, but it does seem strange that thread could get his far without one actual cite. Manduck at least provided a link, although it's an audio one and not what can objectively be called a cite.

If you've heard the audio, do you know if the interviewer pressed Carter at all on the issue, or is it just stated and left at that?

[Master Wang-Ka]

George Will has been cheerfully pointing out facts that serve his agenda for years, while at the same time ignoring facts that do not serve his agenda.

He's a columnist, a pundit, an opinionator, and therefore outside the usual code of "objective journalism." He can pretty much say what he likes, as long as he doesn't actually lie. This includes twisting and misrepresenting the facts to reflect what he wants them to seem like.

Business as usual, really.

[elucidator]

I think we should be more honest with ourselves. It's not this politics, as elitist and retrograde as they are. Nor is it his obfuscatory sesquipedalianism, nor his habit of advancing his argument as though it were instruction rather than opinion, truth broken into digestible bits for the lumpenproles.

We don't like George Will because he is a weenie.

He is an exemplar of an oppressed minority, a despised minority, and we are all guilty, we all share in his humiliation. When his lunch money was taken for the tenth time, when he was forced to issue rainchecks for the next available lunch money, did we come to his defense? When he showed up at the prom dating his cousin, didn't we snicker? When he insisted on wearing a letter sweater for his debate team prowess, did any of us pull him aside and confidingly murmer "Dude.......don't be a dick....."?

No. We did none of these things. Because he's a weenie.

[Acsenray]

Mostly the former, but I've never heard about the latter, so I'd prefer both.

I had always thought that the use of the stolen debate notes was common knowledge. So far as I know, Will didn't steal them himself. Googling turns up numerous references to Reagan being prepped for the debate with a stolen copy of Carter's preparation notes.

This reference on the Working for Change Web site -- http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=10917 -- refers to a 1983 article in Newsweek:

Six months ago, when Gore campaign adviser Tom Downey received a package containing the Bush campaign material prior to the first debate, he immediately turned it over to the FBI. In sharp contrast, 20 years earlier, top operatives in Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign pored through Jimmy Carter's lengthy briefing book swiped from the White House. Back then, behind the scenes, Will was part of the effort to make the most of the illegally obtained papers.

Will looked at the Carter briefing materials and then helped coach Reagan for a crucial debate with Carter. Promptly after the debate, Will went on "Nightline" to praise Reagan for a "thoroughbred performance." Viewers had no way to know of Will's involvement in prepping Reagan for the debate.

For years, Will was able to cover up the deception. But in mid-1983, the "Debategate" story finally broke, and he took some flak.

At first, Newsweek merely mentioned in passing that Will had been shown the stolen briefing book "and thought nothing of it." A week later, devoting several sentences to the intrigue of its star columnist, the magazine reported that he "saw the Carter materials" and later helped to prepare Reagan "for his confrontation with Carter. Then, in his role as television commentator, Will gave Reagan a favorable review for his performance -- without explaining that he had personally taken part in the event."

During the summer of 1983, various media pillars rumbled with disapproval. As Newsweek observed, "some of Will's fellow journalists have heatedly criticized his partisan role. Jack Nelson, Washington bureau chief for the Los Angeles Times, called it 'outrageous.'"

The New Republic declared Will to be "the one person who has been most embarrassed by Debategate" and faulted him for two aspects of his behavior:

"Appearing on ABC's 'Nightline' the night of the debate, Mr. Will was one of the commentators who awarded the 'victory' to Mr. Reagan; he posed as a referee without ever making it clear that he had been one of the seconds."

In addition, the columnist "knew about the purloined briefing books" but kept the knowledge to himself. "Mr. Will said nothing about this on 'Nightline'; nor did he write about it."

Perhaps a bit taken aback by the uproar, Will devoted a Washington Post column to his own defense. In essence, Time magazine noted, "Will said he was glad he had done what he had done, but would not do it again."

The controversy blew over. And in retrospect, Will's prominence in Debategate probably helped rather than hurt his career. The incident certified that he was a power player at the highest reaches of presidential politics.

My guess is that in the "Fresh Air" interview, if Carter said that Will himself had stolen the books, he was either misspeaking, or he was speaking in shorthand, or he was ethically equating the theft itself with what Will actually did.

[John Mace]

I had always thought that the use of the stolen debate notes was common knowledge. So far as I know, Will didn't steal them himself. Googling turns up numerous references to Reagan being prepped for the debate with a stolen copy of Carter's preparation notes.

Did anyone acually admit to stealing the notes, or were they caught and prosicuted? If not, how do we know the notes were stolen?

My guess is that in the "Fresh Air" interview, if Carter said that Will himself had stolen the books, he was either misspeaking, or he was speaking in shorthand, or he was ethically equating the theft itself with what Will actually did.

That would be my guess, too. I'm just surprised that the OP is unwilling to admit a mistake.

[Acsenray]

Did anyone acually admit to stealing the notes, or were they caught and prosicuted? If not, how do we know the notes were stolen?

If you want the source material, you'd have to track down those reports in Newsweek and other newspapers from 1983. So far as I know they aren't online. You might have to make a trip to the microfilm library. Anyway, I don't remember all the details, but I do remember that enough people on the G.O.P. side admitted to what happened. Even George Will, if I remember correctly, acknowledged that he knew the notebooks had been stolen.

[Evil Captor]

Just to be clear: "Carter said it in an interview" is not a cite.

Over in the ObL tape thread we have a Larry King interview of Walter Cronkite saying he thinks Karl Rove is a likely source of that tape.

Actually, Manduck appears to provided a cite, unless I am mistaken. I still don't see how Will could have stolen the notes, however, so I tend to regard Carter's claim as somewhat fuzzy.

[ElvisL1ves]

If not, how do we know the notes were stolen?Unless you're suggesting that Carter might have given them away, that's the only plausible explanation. Come on now.

[Jinx]

I don't have a cite handy at the moment-sorry!-but it's pretty well-known that someone stole one of Carter's briefing books and passed it to the Reagan team.

Whether or not it was Will, I can't say.

Here's a link...
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=98evta%247gu%241%40pencil.math.missouri.edu&output=gplain

- Jinx