Pilots: how many hours until solo?

[Sox2004]

My 18 year old son has just started taking flying lessons. His flight instructor told him that had good skills and that he would probably solo somewhere after 8-10 hours of instruction. This seems very quick to me. What is the average time for a new student to solo on a quest for a private pilot's license?

Thanks.

[Shagnasty]

That is a little early but not ridiculous. It took me twelve hours. I think the average is somewhere in the early to mid-teens. Just for clarification, you are aware soloing merely gets the student a student pilot's license and not the final private's license right? Soloing the first time is just three take offs and landings while staying in the pattern. After, the student pilot's license is awarded, the student can work with the instructor to develop more complicated flight plans that are still within the student's skill range such as cross-country flights (flights 25 miles away or more).

The actual private pilot's license requires at least 40 hours and the averge is closer to 60.

[CurtC]

I soloed after something just over eight hours. I was 18 at the time, but this was back in 1979. It was also in West Texas, where things are a little simpler than where I live now in the city.

[av8rmike]

I don't remember how many hours I had at my first solo, which should tell you one thing: The number of hours doesn't matter. The important thing is that the instructor feels your son is confidant in his skills and is ready for the solo. I'd be weary of an instructor who soloes a student just because he's getting impatient or like it was some kind of competition. Tell your son good luck, and to wear an old shirt! ;)

[Dr. Lao]

I soloed after about 10 hours. Remember that after his first solo he'll still have a great deal of duel instruction left to go.

[N9IWP]

I'd have to look at my log book to be sure how long it took me.
You probably know this, but it depends on how often he trains (in general, the more often you train the less you forget between lessons = less time needed), natual affinity, how much he studies between flights, etc.

As others pointed out, there is no FAA minimum dual time before solo. the instructor will solo the student when the instructor thinks the student is ready (which is often BEFORE the student thinks so :) )

Brian

[caphis]

Taking flying lessons is something I've always wanted to do, but never really thought about all that much.

What's the price range for this kind of thing?

[Ravenman]

Aircraft rental will run somewhere around $60 to $80 per hour, for the time you have the engine running. An instructor will typically cost about $20 to $30 per hour. One should count on spending in the neighborhood of $5,000 to get a private pilots license, and it can be done as quickly as a month (if you fly every day) to more than 18 months (if you can only fly once or twice a month, and you get washed out by some bad weather, have to cancel some lessons because of work, etc).

Usually you can get an introductory flight for about $50. It's fun, try it1

[ParentalAdvisory]

A lot of people could probably do it after about 10 hrs, but the club I went to made sure you didn't go solo until after 20 hrs... Either a safety measure, or way to bill more hours to you? Either way, that was the club rule.

[Berkut]

I soloed in 20 hours, which is probably a little longer than most people take. I was signed off for my private checkride at around 37 hours, so I was a little ahead of the average there. 35 hours is the minimum time for a private at my school.

[HMS Irruncible]

Think of it like your son learning how to ride a bicycle... didn't take very much training before you'd allow him to ride alone with training wheels to the end of the block and back, within your sight. That's sort of like "soloing."

The basic techniques of takeoff, landing, and steering aren't that difficult if you have the all the odds arranged in favor of a novice. This would be: good weather, long airstrips on instructor-approved airfields, approved flight plans, no passengers, simple, well-maintained aircraft.

That is what "solo" means - flying with "training wheels." The permission to "solo" can happen as soon as your instructor feels that you're ready. But getting your license is different. That means getting enough training and experience to fly without those "training wheels" I described, as well as many other technical and planning skills that I didn't describe here.

Hope this helps.

[Johnny L.A.]

Just for clarification, you are aware soloing merely gets the student a student pilot's license and not the final private's license right?
Just for further clarification, you get your Student Pilot Certificate before you start lessons. It's combined with your Class III Medical Certificate.
Taking flying lessons is something I've always wanted to do, but never really thought about all that much.

What's the price range for this kind of thing?
What Ravenman said. In addtion, you'll have to buy some pilot supplies. You'll also need to complete ground school. Many community colleges have ground school in their catalogs, and that's an inexpensive way of doing it. You can also buy the Sporty's or King private pilot ground school courses and study at home, or pay an instructor $30 an hour for individual instruction. Once you have completed ground school you will receive a certificate saying that you have successfully completed it, which entitles you to take the written test. When your instructor feels you have met the requirements for your private certificate, s/he will give you training in preparation for the practical examination. The practical exam will be with your first official passenger: The flight examiner. Typically there will be a fee associated with that. When I got my SEL rating in the '80s I think the examiner charged 50 or 60 bucks. The helicopter examiner in the '90s charged me $300, I think.

So you have, say, $75/hour for the airplane. Add $20 - $30 per hour for the instructor. Figure a couple hundred bucks for ground school, and maybe a hundred more for books (FAR/AIM, Aviation Weather, etc.). Then add the testing fees. The FARs require 40 hours of instruction; 20 dual and 20 solo. Most pilots seem to take about 50 hours. For best results, fly at least once a week. The farther out you spread your training, the more hours it will probably take.

[Magiver]

It took me 39 hrs to solo due to: Ohio weather, a full time job, part time college classes, and a sick parent. It was a real bitch getting the weather to cooperate with my time schedule. Think I ended up with close to 63 hrs before I got my license (Ohio weather sucks). Didn't help that the plane I was flying had a bad airspeed indicator and I had to figure it out as a solo'd student. The plane wouldn't land because it was 10 knots above stall speed. Learning to fly requires a MINIMUM of 1 hr a week to retain what you've learned. If you can't maintain this then it will take longer to solo.

Anyway, a good instructor will make sure a student can handle an emergency situation before they are solo'd. Stall recovery is beat into the student until it is automatic because it involves ignoring the impulse to turn the yoke in the opposite direction of a stalling wing (which accelerates the stall, killing the student). It actually helps if the student never drove a car.

We just had a student/instructor death this year and it was made worse by the fact the children of the student pilot were in the back seat of the plane. It appeared to be a classic takeoff turn into a stall. I mention this for 2 reasons: a good instructor has to be able to rest control of the A/C during training. It is also important for the instructor to properly evaluate a student for solo. Airplanes don't care if you're Joe 6-pack or JFK Junior. You break the rules, you die.

Final thought. Getting a pilot's license should be looked at as permission to continue learning (which is what the check-ride pilot actually said to me). I would not recommend running out the next day and filling a 4-passenger plane with 4 people and full fuel. Flying close the plane's maximum load should be done after a few more hours of practice. I found a HUGE increase in personal skill with the next 25-50 hrs than any hrs since then. I would also council practice with any change in aircraft. I upgraded my plane to a larger engine and prop and found the engine-to-idle characteristics were WAY different with the larger prop. Made for an interesting approach when I was practicing emergency landings.

[Sam Stone]

9 or 10 hours here. Got the pilot's license in the minimum time, but usually it takes maybe 10 hours more.

The key factor is how often you fly. People who only fly once every week or two tend to require more time both for solo and to finish the license - flying infrequently means you have to spend the first part of each lesson just getting comfortable again. The most efficient way to learn is to dig in and fly at least a couple of hours a week, and preferably more like 3-4 hours a week.

[Magiver]

Sam is correct. I should have been more specific when I said a minimum of 1 hr a week. 3-4 hrs is the suggested routine. I would also recommend the Cessna 152 or 172 vs a Piper Cherokee 140 (which I like better for flying). You can put a 152 into an actual stall, which is a plus for a student. It was designed as a trainer with more elevator surface. Not all planes stall in the classic sense and it helps to be able to recognize what it feels like. I can’t do it in my plane without doing something incredibly egregious.

[Kegg]

O.K. so whatis the age (max & min) for getting a license?
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Spelling and grammer subject to change without notice.

[Broomstick]

Minimum age to solo is 16. Minimum age to get the full private license is 17.

Thre is no maximum age for flying, at least in the US. I believe the record holder was a 102 year old gentleman flying as a private pilot. I personally know a 95 year old woman who not only is still flying, she's still instructing and still a designated examiner.

The younger folks do tend to pick it up quicker than the old farts, though - at age 18, 8-10 hours to solo is entirely reasonable if the student is motivated and has been diligent in learning. It would not be that unreasonable for someone 60, for that matter. On the other hand, some folks don't solo until considerably later. Why? Well, with some it's a confidence issue - if you weren't self-confident before flight training you will be by the end. Some learn the basics slower than others - which doesn't mean they're bad pilots - if they learn those basics well and thoroughly they'll pull ahead of someone who rushes through the process without gaining a full understanding of what's going on. If you're in a complicated airspace with lots of other airplanes and so forth you'll generally solo later than average, but if you're out in the country with hardly anyone else around and less complex rules due to the lower traffic volume you will tend to solo sooner.

Taking off, simple turns to negotiate the airport area, and three landings in ideal weather is not hugely difficult. And that's what a solo is. You aren't turned loose afterwards - there will still be many hours of dual instruction ahead.as your son gains further skills, learns to navigate cross country, and is introduced to such things as flying at night, high performance take offs and landings, and more advanced emergency techniques.

[N9IWP]

I just checked my logbook - 19.4 hours before solo.

I belong to a flying club, and when I started (1995) the 150 rented for $20/hr wet tach time (it is now $30/hr). Of course there is club buy in and monthly dues and it depends of how often you fly but a club is probably still cheaper.

Brian

[Sam Stone]

Have rental rates gone up significantly recently? I would have assumed that the spike in gas prices in the last year would have driven up rental rates. Did it?

[Magiver]

When I learned to fly in 1987 avgas was just under $2. Now it's $3 or more. A trainer will burn 6 gallons an hour so that’s $6/hr right there. Airplane parts are getting painfully expensive. It was more expensive to buy/rebuild an O-320 than it was to rebuild an O-235 because of the cost of parts. Insurance, labor, aging airplanes, strut AD's, wing root AD's…. It's a financial minefield for owner/operators.

Broomstick brought up a good point. Soloing is different than wandering around the country looking for logbook signatures. My final cross country was to Put-in-Bay Island and that is not something an instructor would let you do just after soloing.

Aviation trivia. Can a student call for (and get) special VFR clearance?

[Magiver]

Meant to say it was LESS expensive to buy/rebuild an O-320 than rebuild an O235.

[David Simmons]

It took me about 13 hours in a PT-17 Stearman trainer. (http://www.txwings.com/stearman_kaydet_trainer.htm)

[Richard Pearse]

Time taken to solo varies a LOT from person to person. I went solo in 6.5 hours, there are some examples here of people who've taken longer, and I know other people who went solo in less time -- one actually introduced himself as "hi I'm Dave, I soloed in 6.2 hours", tosser. Ultimately, although it is an important milestone, particularly for the student pilot, the time taken is quite meaningless and reflects nothing more than the various backgrounds of students. Once everyone's been brought up to a certain standard things begin to even out.

8-10 hours for your son is quite normal. Be reassured that he will not be given the authority to fly whenever he likes. A supervising instructor must be present at the base and they must authorise each flight he makes. Today may be suitable for flying solo but tomorrow may not be (due weather normally). The instructor is responsible for any flying that a student does solo. This means the instructor won't be letting him fly solo unless they're confident that nothing bad will happen.

Learning to fly requires a MINIMUM of 1 hr a week to retain what you've learned. If you can't maintain this then it will take longer to solo.

When I did mine, I was living at home and on an unemployment benefit*. I could afford 1 lesson per week and that lesson would be restricted to 0.7 hours max (I was very lucky to have a flying school that bent over backwards to fit around my quite specific needs). That was just enough to retain and improve on my skills each week. When it came time to do navigation exercises I had to save up for a few weeks before flying. Although it worked out ok for me, I don't think anyone should really plan on this kind of lesson schedule. Magiver's 1 hour minimum is spot on.

*Some may be shocked to think that a layabout unemployed 18 year old used tax payers money to fund his pilots licence rather than looking for work, but I've now paid it all back (many times over) in tax on income gained using that licence so there!

[cabdude]

Took me 17.8 hours - 1.7 of which was a trial introductory flight.

But I'm quite cautious - could have been done a good 2-3 hours earlier than that.

[Broomstick]

I have heard of people going 40 or 50 hours before solo involving some issue about their medical clearance. In such instances, the student may well go on to more advanced things prior to solo. I heard of one instance where a man was taking lessons, his medical waiver for some condition or other was delayed in Oklahoma City, and thus he couldn't solo. He continued to take lessons, did his dual cross country, and so forth. His 3rd Class medical was finally approved when he had 80 hours, he then soloed, completed all his solo work in a week, and took (and passed) his checkride the week following.

I have also known victims of an unscrupulous practice known as "churning", where the CFI basically strings someone along, taking their money and simply never signing them off to solo. This can rack up an impressive number of pre-solo hours until the person either gives up in digust, or finally figures out they're being scammed and goes elsewhere. At which point they have to contend with people questioning their ability because they have 60 or whatever pre-solo hours. It's not that they're incompentent - they've been victimized is what happened. But the egoists strutting about bragging about how few hours it took them to solo naturally don't see it that way, and can make life pretty unpleasent for someone who's already been taken advantage of. Once these folks get their license they may even go elsewhere to fly, somewhere where their hours-to-solo aren't known and thus not an issue. The point being, if you have your license you've demonstrated a certain level of competence and the FAA doesn't really care how long it took you to get there.

Another circumstance that can increase hours-to-solo is someone who starts on a complex plane. We have one of those currently at our airfield - he bought an airplane, a high performance single with retractable gear and adjustable prop, then went shopping for lessons. It took him something like 60 or 70 hours to solo, but that's because he was flying a more complicated airplane than the typical trainer and for that reason it took him longer to learn to safely fly the thing. It's going on 3 or 4 years now and he still doesn't have his private license yet. Well, it's not what I did, but it's what and how he wants to do this, it's his money. Folks have been telling him from day one that he's taking the long, slow, expensive route to the license but hey, he hasn't given up yet so he must be getting something out of the experience.

So, to get back to the OP - 10 hours to solo is a reasonable figure, and in line with how things are supposed to happen. But the issue isn't "how many hours" it's "when is the student ready".

[Richard Pearse]

I have also known victims of an unscrupulous practice known as "churning", where the CFI basically strings someone along, taking their money and simply never signing them off to solo. This can rack up an impressive number of pre-solo hours until the person either gives up in digust

This kind of thing can happen due to poor training management as well. I know of people who would turn up to their aeroclub for a lesson. They would get one of the many young part time instructors, one they hadn't flown with before.

The instructor would say,

"what are you up to?"
"Well I did steep turns on my last flight"
"Ok, we'll go and see how those are coming along"

They spend a flight going over steep turns

Next day, different instructor.

"what are you up to?"
"Well I did steep turns on my last flight"
"Ok, we'll go and see how those are coming along"

They spend a flight going over steep turns, again.

In this manner, each lesson that should only take one or two flights gets extended to 6 or more!

[av8rmike]

Aviation trivia. Can a student call for (and get) special VFR clearance?
There does not appear to be any specific restrictions against students in the applicable portion of the FARs, 91.157 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=cddc8256c7ad3bf6e5281ffd0eba43e4&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.2.5.32&idno=14), except at night, where an instrument-rated pilot is required. That being said, SVFR clearances can only be granted at airports in Classes B, C, D, and E surface areas, at airports where it is already not specifically prohibited, and when the visibility is at least 1 SM. Personally, I wouldn't attempt such a thing as a student because of the extreme risk involved anyway.

[Quartz]

An ex-colleague of mine had a wonderful wheeze: at one point he was restricted to flying such that he always remained within sight of land, so when he was in the area, he'd find a hole in the clouds and fly up through it, and could then fly as long as he was in sight of the top of Snowdon, which was, of course, above the clouds...

Personally, I thought he was lucky to be alive.