Atlantis found....... yet again?

[HPL]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/11/14/cyprus.atlantis.ap/index.html

I'd love for it to be true, but it just seems a little too fishy for me. Particulary the bit about "Just where plato said it would be". Since when is the Atlantic and the Eastern Mediterrean the same place?

The sinking land bit is a bit suspect as well.

What say you? BS or not?

[Marley23]

BS. If for no other reason than all the other "Atlantis found" news stories and threads I've read.

[Evil Captor]

Piffle. I found Atlantis in my sock drawer just the other week.

[XT]

Total BS, but would be interesting if there ARE ruins there. However, from my own experience (I won't say where) side scanning sonar is notoriously suspect for this kind of stuff. I can't tell you how many times I've seen 'hits' (looking for ships or planes or such) only to dive down and find a rock...or nothing at all. Basically they could have 'seen' what APPEARED to be man made formations...but until they actually go there and look they won't know anything.

-XT

[Alessan]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/11/14/cyprus.atlantis.ap/index.html

I'd love for it to be true, but it just seems a little too fishy for me. Particulary the bit about "Just where plato said it would be". Since when is the Atlantic and the Eastern Mediterrean the same place?

The sinking land bit is a bit suspect as well.

What say you? BS or not?

Nitpick - Plato never said it was in the Atlantic. Later scholars interperated his text as meaning it was in the western sea and named the ocean after it; theses new researcher clain that the scholars were wrong and that Plato meant the Mediterranian all along. Which makes sense, as he was Greek.

Still seems like a load of BS. Real scientists don't say their evidence is "irrefutable".

[MEBuckner]

I wonder if 2,000 years from now people won't be looking for the lost "land of Oz", or the ruins of the fabled "Gotham City".

[manhattan]

"Further confirmation of the historian Baum's writings on the fabled city came in 1980, when President Reagan referred to a 'shining city on a hill' as clear a reference to Oz as can be. Excavations continue near the ruins of Alexandria, Virginia as the most likely location of this 'Crystal City,' but my findings prove conclusively that..."

[Polycarp]

Piffle. I found Atlantis in my sock drawer just the other week.

Dammit, if you'd just kept track of it after you found it, we wouldn't have this continual annoyance of Atlantis-sighting threads! Try to be more careful next time, will you? :dubious:

Besides, everyone knows that it's the Yetis' Cloaking Device that keeps people from finding the real Atlantis! :eek:

[Peter Morris]

I wonder if 2,000 years from now people won't be looking for the lost "land of Oz", or the ruins of the fabled "Gotham City".

One archaeologist will discover Gotham in New York, while another will discover it close to Nottingham.

[cj finn]

What I really want to know is how does a city sink 1500 meters? If it can be shown that this actually happens, then I might even believe the guy. (I still don't think I'd be donating to his cause mind you).

cj

[Diogenes the Cynic]

It sounds like the guy who's making this claim has no credentials at all in archaeology. The article describes him simply as "an American researcher," and the real archaeologists are quite dubious.
We have definitely found the Acropolis of Atlantis," he affirmed, adding the site was 80 kilometers (50 miles) southeast of Cyprus.
Real scientists do not say things like this.
The chief government archaeologist of Cyprus, Pavlos Flourentzos, reacted with skepticism, telling The Associated Press: "More proof is necessary."

Sarmast, 38, is an architect by training from Los Angeles. He has devoted the past two-and-a-half years to trying to locate the lost city described by Plato in his dialogues, the Timaeous and the Critias. He spoke to reporters on the "Flying Enterprise," his expeditionary ship, after six days of taking highly sophisticated "side scan" sonars of the seabed.
The dude is an architect with a hobby. I would put this guy in the same category as Noah's Ark hunters and Bigfoot chasers.

[John Mace]

It's an interesting "discovery". It may be nothing, it may be what the ancients called Atalntis, it may be someting entirely different. I'll wait for the article published in a peer review scientific journal...

[HPL]

What I really want to know is how does a city sink 1500 meters? If it can be shown that this actually happens, then I might even believe the guy. (I still don't think I'd be donating to his cause mind you).

cj

I want to know how it can sink and there be anything recognizable at all, let alone an acropolis.

[John Mace]

I want to know how it can sink and there be anything recognizable at all, let alone an acropolis.

This is not uncommon at all. Sea levels can rise or earthquakes/volcanoes can cause , or parts of cities to become submerged. (http://www.underwaterdiscovery.org/english/projects/alexandria/history/) If Atlantis existed 9,000 years ago, it wouldn't be surprising at all.

[HPL]

This is not uncommon at all. Sea levels can rise or earthquakes/volcanoes can cause , or parts of cities to become submerged. (http://www.underwaterdiscovery.org/english/projects/alexandria/history/) If Atlantis existed 9,000 years ago, it wouldn't be surprising at all.

But would there be anything recognizable left after a 1500 m plunge?

[Mirasawa]

I ascribe to the theory that the ill-fated Minoan civilization is Atlantis... though the details got scrambled by the time Plato wrote it down. The only thing he got right was the fact it was a great civilization and got wiped out in a disaster.


_
_

[John Mace]

But would there be anything recognizable left after a 1500 m plunge?

The depth isn't really significant. I don't know what the terminal velocity is for stone in water, but it isn't very fast, and I suspect it is reached rather quickly. And the bottom of the sea tends to be rather soft. Why would you think it would be a problem?

[John Mace]

Also, the material wouldn't have had to descend to that depth all at once. It could very easily have been a serious of events that resuted in it settling at the current depth.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I don't believe that there's any hypothesis that Atlantis literally "sank" in the sense of falling to the bottom of the ocean. Any theories that I'm aware of in this regard pertain to tidal waves caused by earthquakes. The belief is that the water blanketed the land not that the land was floating on the surface and then just "dropped."

[ouryL]

I wonder if 2,000 years from now people won't be looking for the lost "land of Oz", or the ruins of the fabled "Gotham City".

Haha!!

Reminds me of the David McCauley book, Motel of the Gods and that skit on the old Artie Johnson record album, Ton Laundry[Washington].

This could be a great thread!!

[BrainGlutton]

Atlantis, Rise!

http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/ears/soundz/10HOLE_HYMNS/X0005_atlantis.rise.html

[Harborwolf]

What I really want to know is how does a city sink 1500 meters? If it can be shown that this actually happens, then I might even believe the guy. (I still don't think I'd be donating to his cause mind you).

cj

They all flushed their toilets at exactly the same time. Don't believe me? Just you wait. One of these super bowl halftimes we're gonna lose New York.

As for the atlantis claim, it's worth a giggle, giggle and a half tops. If it's true, it might bring an end to some of the nuttier speculation about the miraculous atlantean culture though.

[Mangetout]

Particulary the bit about "Just where plato said it would be"hehe. Me too; sounds very much like "just like Nostradamus predicted!".

[APB]

The guy's website (http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/) has pictures of some of the scans (http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/NewAtlantisLocationPictures/index.html), plus an animation of them (http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/new_map_small.gif). To my untrained eye, it all looks pretty unremarkable...

[Edward The Head]

The guy's website (http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/) has pictures of some of the scans (http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/NewAtlantisLocationPictures/index.html), plus an animation of them (http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/new_map_small.gif). To my untrained eye, it all looks pretty unremarkable...

Hell to my somewhat trained eye it doesn't look like anything. Looks just like something I could find in the west of the US. Almost looks like what we called a hogback.

Besides we all know Indiana Jones found Atlantis, I have the comics to prove it.

[XT]

The guy's website has pictures of some of the scans, plus an animation of them. To my untrained eye, it all looks pretty unremarkable...

Could be anything...ship wreck, natural rock formations, other junk...or even ruins I suppose. They won't know until they actually physically go and take a look, or at least send an RoV down there.. Thats the fun part.

I'm a network engineer with a hobbie, as DtC puts it. :)

-XT

[Musicat]

Those images look a lot like the ones taken on Mars from the orbiter. If this guy is right about Atlantis, so is Richard Hoagland about the pyramid cities on Mars.

[cmkeller]

I'm not at all commenting on this "finder's" claims. I just want to point out that Plato didn't say Atlantis was in the Atlantic Ocean. He said it was "beyond the pillars of Hercules" which is generally interpreted to mean the two sides of the Strait of Gibraltar, thus leading to a conclusion that it is out in the Atlantic. But while it is true that Gibraltar was referred to as such, there were other places that the Greeks referred to by that name as well. In fact, that's one of the more compelling points of the "Minoan Crete" theory, that there is a "Pillars of Hercules" which points in that direction. The same might be true of this new guy's site.

[Tapioca Dextrin]

The final proof of just how advanced Atlantean technology was is this. In June this year, Atlantis was sited just off Southern Spain (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3766863.stm). A mere six months later, the entire civilisation has moved to the other end of the Mediterranean. We can only wonder at the marvels of these ancient peoples.

[Aagramn]

Given that it seems to pop up everywhere, I think Atlantis must have been the Starbucks of the ancient world. Definitely a franchise operation.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I'm not at all commenting on this "finder's" claims. I just want to point out that Plato didn't say Atlantis was in the Atlantic Ocean. He said it was "beyond the pillars of Hercules" which is generally interpreted to mean the two sides of the Strait of Gibraltar, thus leading to a conclusion that it is out in the Atlantic. But while it is true that Gibraltar was referred to as such, there were other places that the Greeks referred to by that name as well. In fact, that's one of the more compelling points of the "Minoan Crete" theory, that there is a "Pillars of Hercules" which points in that direction. The same might be true of this new guy's site.
I lean towards the Minoan theory myself. It makes the most sense, IMO. It's also boring which is why people don't seem satisfied by it.

[HPL]

The guy's website (http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/) has pictures of some of the scans (http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/NewAtlantisLocationPictures/index.html), plus an animation of them (http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/new_map_small.gif). To my untrained eye, it all looks pretty unremarkable...

It's interesting, but in no way indictive of a lost city or civilization. If that's the best he's got, I am unimpressed.

[Musicat]

Bob Carroll's take on Atlantis (http://skepdic.com/atlantis.html)

[DanBlather]

The myth of Atlantis has been around for ages and it is generally believed that, if it ever existed, it was somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean -- hence its name. I had never made that connection before. Boy do I feel dumb. :o

[cj finn]

They all flushed their toilets at exactly the same time. Don't believe me? Just you wait. One of these super bowl halftimes we're gonna lose New York.

As for the atlantis claim, it's worth a giggle, giggle and a half tops. If it's true, it might bring an end to some of the nuttier speculation about the miraculous atlantean culture though.


Very funny. So on this basis, we can postulate the theory that Atlantis actually did float and that during a break in the bear baiting action, they all flushed their respective amphitheater pit toilets at the same time, thereby unbalancing their precarious floating isle, which then rapidly shipped water and sank sliding bow first into the muck of the stygian depths approximately 1500 meters below the surface of the otherwise lovely Mediteranean waves. That or they were struck down for using too many run-on sentences.

cj

[Musicat]

BS. If for no other reason than all the other "Atlantis found" news stories and threads I've read.Yeah, like the one found just last June, in Spain, no less: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3766863.stm)The identification of the site with Atlantis was first proposed by Werner Wickboldt, a lecturer and Atlantis enthusiast who spotted the rectangles and concentric rings by studying photographs from across the Mediterranean for signs of the city described by Plato.

The sizes of the "island" and its rings in the satellite image are slightly larger than those described by Plato. There are two possible explanations for this, says Dr Kuehne. Maybe three -- apparently just anyone can call themseves a "scientist" nowadays.

But wait! The Russians already found it in 1997, off Cornwall, England: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/43172.stm)Now a team from Russia says it has identified it - 100 miles off Land's End, off the south-west coast of England.Blimey, Guv'nor! Why stop there? This nut thinks it is in Bolivia, (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/43172.stm) I kid you not:British explorer Colonel John Blashford-Snell, believes there is enough evidence in [Plato's] Republic to justify a search for Atlantis in Bolivia. His team leaves in March.Maybe, on their way to Bolivia, they'll pass by the team near Gibraltar: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3227295.stm)A team of experts believes it could be close to unravelling the millennia-old myth of the Lost City of Atlantis and is launching an expedition to the seas west of Gibraltar to test its theory...They believe that using a combination of literary pointers and geological evidence they have pinned the lost city's location to just west of the Straits of Gibraltar, on a submerged mud shoal now known as Spartel Island. Has anyone proposed Mars? That may be the only site left!

[HPL]

Has anyone proposed Mars? That may be the only site left!

Personally, I think Atlantis is Ohio, because Atlantis doesn't exist and niether does Ohio.

[Merkwurdigliebe]

I have a question guys.

I remember in a history class from highschool my teacher explaining how it was once believed that the straight of Gibraltar was closed and the Med was dry. Could that be a possible explanation? There was also the belief that this may have occured in the Black Sea too.

Could this explain why it was 50 miles deep?

I have no clue about this point of information at all



But this guy reminds me of a particular type that doesn't listen to criticism because he believes his idea is so amazing and revolutionary that his findings will somehow prevail

The whole dot-com era entrepreneurs seemed to have this too. Pets.com?

[HPL]

I have a question guys.

I remember in a history class from highschool my teacher explaining how it was once believed that the straight of Gibraltar was closed and the Med was dry. Could that be a possible explanation? There was also the belief that this may have occured in the Black Sea too.

Could this explain why it was 50 miles deep?


I've heard that too, but apparently the med was dry(er) perhaps 10,000 BC, long before a civlization such as Atlantis could have expected to have existed.

[Marley23]

Personally, I think Atlantis is Ohio, because Atlantis doesn't exist and niether does Ohio.
Man, will John Kerry be relieved when he gets that news! :)

[Merkwurdigliebe]

I've heard that too, but apparently the med was dry(er) perhaps 10,000 BC, long before a civlization such as Atlantis could have expected to have existed.

That's what I was thinking too that it would be too early and we would be talking about prehistoric tribes with no means of converying history, etc..


But has nobody looked on the floor of the Med to see any ruins of something there? That woudl be cool to me in itself.

In my opinion, it was either in Crete, or it doesn't exist. This guy sounds flaky, but it would be cool if he were right.

I remember from the other thread that Plato was saying that it did exist something like 10,000 years ago. But then again, how would he not know of a huge flood that destroyed it.... Very doubtful to me.

[HPL]

Man, will John Kerry be relieved when he gets that news! :)

I admit, it's not a great theory, but it's better then many of the theories I've heard.

[MEBuckner]

Although the Mediterranean Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea) has evidently undergone periods when it was completely or partially dried up and then re-flooded, the last re-flooding event seems to have taken place about 5.4 million years ago. This is way too early to be the source of stories of Atlantis; at that time, our ancestors had brains no bigger than those of chimpanzees.

There have been suggestions that the Black Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea), on the other hand, was an isolated lake which was flooded by the Mediterranean breaking through what is now the Bosporus about 5600 B.C.E., drowning a considerable area around the shores of the ancient lake. There have been a number of popular science stories in recent years proposing that this dramatic theory is the source for Ancient Near Eastern stories of a Great Flood (one version of which is the familiar story of Noah's Ark). I don't recall anyone proposing it as the source for the Atlantis myth, but I wouldn't be surprised to find someone has. Various aspects of the whole story apparently remain controversial, though.

[Tapioca Dextrin]

This site (http://www.atlan.org/articles/checklist/) gives out a fairly comprehensive list of possible Atlantean locations (including Peru and the Antarctic!). It seems to fairly even handed - even though they seem to place Atlantis somewhere around the Philipines. :dubious:

[Tapioca Dextrin]

Could this explain why it [the Blac Sea] was 50 miles deep?

Accordin to Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea)

The Black Sea has an area of 422,000 km² and a maximum depth of 2210 m.

[APB]

But has nobody looked on the floor of the Med to see any ruins of something there? That woudl be cool to me in itself.

That's basically what this expedition was trying to do and this is the best that they can come up with - a bump on the sea floor that looks indistinguishable from any other natural formation. As I said, pretty unremarkable.

[cmkeller]

Man, will John Kerry be relieved when he gets that news! :)

No he won't be. Subtract Ohio from the whole electoral vote count, and Bush still has more. What Kerry needed was to WIN Ohio, not negate it.