Condoleeza just did it...

[Ghanima]

She's the first black woman to be named Secretary of State. You go girl.

So, did Bush do it to make himself look better? Or because she's actually qualified? Or both? I doubt that affirmative Action is relevant at the cabinet level, and it's not like George needs to worry too much about what black or women voters think of him anymore.

I'm proud of her, to be honest.

[Lobsang]

What's the next step?

Female president?

Black president?

Non-American born president? (arnie?)

Black female president? (Condoleeza?)

Muslim president?

Atheist president?

Marxist president?


no offence meant here.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

What's the next step?

Female president?

I think we'll see a woman president before a black one.

[Ringo]

She's the first black woman to be named Secretary of State. You go girl.

So, did Bush do it to make himself look better? Or because she's actually qualified?

I think she was a logical choice. Dub trusts her judgement and she's competent and a known factor to him. She's also been in a very effective understudy position for four years.

I'll say it, too; you go, girl!

[Lobsang]

Actually Has there ever been a thread similar to my post? (debating the future breakdowns of presidential limitation)

[rjung]

Rather a pity that the first black female Secretary of State is little more than a rubber stamping yes-woman for the President (and his handlers).

[Airman Doors, USAF]

How naive.

The Secretary of State is ALWAYS a rubber stamp for the President. They are executors of policy as dictated by the Chief Executive.

What, you thought they could make their own treaties or something? Negotiate trade deals without approval from above? Pshaw.

[silenus]

Rather a pity that the first black female Secretary of State is little more than a rubber stamping yes-woman for the President (and his handlers).

Yeah, Og Forbid the SecState actually, oh, I don't know...do what the President wants her to do! :rolleyes:

RJ, in case you haven't noticed, the job of the SecState is to apply policy, not make it. The liberals are just pissed that the conservatives have more minorities in higher positions than there ever were under a Democratic President.

Go, Condi! :D

[Reeder]

She will do her best to bow down to the hawks in the administration. There will be no standing up to them.

Four years of yessir! You are right sir!

At least Powell did stand up to them every once in awhile.

I bet Rummy loves the choice.

[Syntropy]

Yeah, Og Forbid the SecState actually, oh, I don't know...do what the President wants her to do! :rolleyes:

RJ, in case you haven't noticed, the job of the SecState is to apply policy, not make it. The liberals are just pissed that the conservatives have more minorities in higher positions than there ever were under a Democratic President.

Go, Condi! :D

Yeah, that's it, sil. Has nothing to do with that famous quote: "Punish the French, ignore the Germans, reward the Russians." :rolleyes:

[Eve]

Isn't she the one who got the memo saying, "Osama bin Laden is planning to use hijackers to crash airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentegon on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, oh, and here's their names and what flights they'll be on and what their pets like to be called," and didn't think it was "specific enough" to bother with?

Oh, and she wears her hair like a Powerpuff Girl.

Other than that, I got no problem with her.

[Marley23]

So, did Bush do it to make himself look better? Or because she's actually qualified? Or both?
He did it because he trusts her (meaning she's unlikely to stand up to him and thinks the same way he does). It probably doesn't hurt that Democrats will be reluctant to stand up to her because of the 'first black woman to be Secretary of State' issue. The same 'first' considerations will probably help Gonzales become the AG. I'm not sure what Rice actually did aside from go along with the program. You'd think it would be easier to be proud of Powell, who at times tried to stand up for himself and lost his job for it.

[pokey]

Oh, and she wears her hair like a Powerpuff Girl.


Like Blossom, the tough one! To me this is a good thing. Or do I have them mixed up. Buttercup is the one that looks like Madeleine Albright, right?

[Syntropy]

Buttercup is the tough one who wears green. ;) Blossom is the red head and Bubbles is the blond.


Um. I have an 11yo daughter. That's the only reason I know. Honest.

[kevja]

She will do her best to bow down to the hawks in the administration. There will be no standing up to them.

Four years of yessir! You are right sir!

At least Powell did stand up to them every once in awhile.

I bet Rummy loves the choice.

What do you mean stand up to them. She believes everything Bush, Cheney, and Rummy believe. I thought that's why she was selected. They're four peas in a pod.

[matt_mcl]

I think Dr. Rice is a noodj for the reasons Eve mentioned; however, just let me say how much I hate this line of questioning:

So, did Bush do it to make himself look better? Or because she's actually qualified?

You notice it never gets applied to white guys -- it's just assumed they'll be hired because they're qualified, not because the person doing the hiring might be biased in favour of their race and gender?

[RickJay]

At least Powell did stand up to them every once in awhile.
Everyone SAYS Powell was the tragic hero in the Bush administration who stood up to the chickenhawks, but when it came time to choose between truth and lies, he dutifiully repeated the lies. When, exactly, did he take a principled stand in public?

[Sampiro]

Oh, and she wears her hair like a Powerpuff Girl.


I've always thought she (http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/immagini/rice_primopiano.jpg) looked more like a fellow intellectual (http://www.sg1871loeberitz.de/bilder/brain.jpg).

[Ringo]

I think she'll absolutely smoke Madeline Allbright.

[DanBlather]

I think we'll see a woman president before a black one.And both before an atheist.

[Duckster]

I think she'll absolutely smoke Madeline Allbright.

Perhaps. But Albright suffered the indignities of sexism, earned the respect of some but never did with some countries where women are still chattel. Rice will suffer the same indignities with sexism, but also racism. In spite of her academic quals and experience, I think she will ultimately fair worse than Albright. The world loved Albright's boss. The world hates Rice's boss.

[Really Not All That Bright]

And both before an atheist.
We've had a deist; I think that's close enough.

Besides, I have no doubt that several closet atheists have held the office.

[rjung]

When, exactly, did he take a principled stand in public?
Not in public -- Powell always kept his disputes in private -- but there are a lot of accounts that it was Powell who convinced Bush to go to the UN one last time to try and convince them to support the Iraq war, instead of going at it alone even sooner.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

A perfect example of somebody failing upwards...kind of like Bush.

[Poonther]

What do you mean stand up to them. She believes everything Bush, Cheney, and Rummy believe. I thought that's why she was selected. They're four peas in a pod.

Don't you mean more like the four horsemen of the apocalypse?

I am all for diversity and think we should have tons more minorities in positions of power. I'm just sad that this monumental milestone is being passed by Condi

When they show her being interviewed on TV I always look at three things: her bad hair, that gap between her teeth and to see exactly how Bush, no make that Cheney. gets his hand in her ass to make her his puppet without being seen.

Yeah milestone
Boo Condi

[ShibbOleth]

She's been a vicious attack dog for the Bush administration and has unresolved feelings towards Bush (remember the "my husband" gaffe, anyone?). I expect more of the same.

At least the new NSC and Sec Education seem to be improvements, although I still don't understand why Secretary of Education keeps coming out of Texas, a state with arguably some of the worst schools in the USA.

[Shirley Ujest]

Who cares that she is black.

Condi looks like she could open up a can of whoop ass on someone.


And she can ice skate. Could Colin Powell ice skate?

[Jaade]

Buttercup is the tough one who wears green. ;) Blossom is the red head and Bubbles is the blond.


Um. I have an 11yo daughter. That's the only reason I know. Honest.

Ummm....yeah....I have THREE daughters and I didn't know that ~d&r~

matt_mcl, I agree with what you are saying, BUT...I don't think that everyone really thinks that all the white males have it all sewn up and are qualified. I think we just usually refer to the ones that we don't think are qualified as jackasses. We all know that some white males only get into the positions they are in because of who they know and who they are. I think it would just be repetitive to discuss it, 'twould be a daily chore! :)

[Eve]

I want to know why she wasn't fired after the 9/11 hearings, rather than being promoted.

[Ravenman]

How naive.

The Secretary of State is ALWAYS a rubber stamp for the President. They are executors of policy as dictated by the Chief Executive.Historically speaking, Secretaries of States -- like other cabinet members -- play a leading role in generating policy, seeing as how the vast experience of a government department helps better inform policy discussions.

And, in fact, secretaries of cabinet departments have not always been yes-men. Cyrus Vance stepped down as SecState because he disagreed with Carter's attempt to rescue the hostages. Dean Rusk kept pressing Kennedy for airstrikes on Cuba during the missile crisis. SecDef Robert McNamera clashed with Johnson over Vietnam.

But Condi Rice doesn't appear to be much on challenging the President's inclinations or preconceived ideas. See the books "Bush at War" and "Plan of Attack," for example, which generally paint Condi Rice as being a confidant, but also as kind of sitting on the sidelines while policies were hammered out in the NSC. Surely there's a better Secretary of State-designee out there.

[cmkeller]

Eve:

Isn't she the one who got the memo saying, "Osama bin Laden is planning to use hijackers to crash airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentegon on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, oh, and here's their names and what flights they'll be on and what their pets like to be called," and didn't think it was "specific enough" to bother with?

Tell me you're being facetious. Cite?

All I've ever heard of was a memo that said "Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.," and that there were some suspicions about the Arabs in flight schools kicking around the lower levels of the FBI.

[Ghanima]

Well, there's always the question of what is qualified in this particular case. I think she is qualified, but I don't think that means that Bush isn't going to use her to his advantage. What I mean is that I think her image is a part of her qualifications.
Bush can now use her as a mouthpiece. Liberals who refuse to listen to him are more likely to listen to her because she's a black woman. Also it makes her less vulnerable to liberal attacks. I think it may be that simple. It definitely doesn't hurt that she's likely to go along with whatever he says. I get the impression that is just how it works in the oval office these days. The guy prides himself on his gut-decisions and unwaveringly sticking to them, I doubt he's going to tolerate someone who doesn't support that.
That memo was called "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the United States." Rice only testified after persistent pressure from the head investigator of the 9/11 commission. Bush refused to testify for even longer and finally consented to an interview with Dick Cheney present the entire time. The 9/11 commission also dug up that the FBI was aware that many of the terrorists were in the country and one of them even rented an apartment from an FBI snitch. There was also documented evidence that many of them who were being monitored obviously had some major outside funding. Oh and there was also the report stating that some of them had enrolled in flight schools. But according to the Bush Administration, it's no one's fault. Sorry, I'm hijacking my own thread.

[Ludovic]

Looking just at her experience, qualifications, and history, she is a perfect fit for SoS in the Bush cabinet.

That's the only good thing I can say about her selection :)

[The Chao Goes Mu]

Yes she's qualified. See here (http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html)

Of course some of those that despise the Bush Admin. will think she's a puppet and those that approve will find her qualified.

Yada yada yada

[RealityChuck]

I detest Bush, but she's perfectly qualified. It's her ideas that are objectionable -- Iraq was by far the biggest foreign policy mistake the US has ever made -- but there's no doubt she's qualified to the post, even if she continues to make disasterous policy.

[you with the face]

She's the first black woman to be named Secretary of State. You go girl.

So, did Bush do it to make himself look better? Or because she's actually qualified? Or both? I doubt that affirmative Action is relevant at the cabinet level, and it's not like George needs to worry too much about what black or women voters think of him anymore.

Ghanima, I hope you don't take this the wrong way 'cause I'm not trying to shit all in your thread. But I find it disturbing that whenever a top-level appointee that happens to be black is discussed, people feel compelled to bring up affirmative action and pose questions about their intelligence and/or qualifications.

There's no mystery about why she was chosen. I mean, the woman has served 4 years as Bush's national security advisor, which is certainly enough time for Dubya to figure out if she's the kind of person he wants on his team. Nothing stinks in her resume. She's fluent in 4 foreign languages and has letters behind her name. Her good rapport with the president is a well-known fact. It's not as if she just strolled in off the street and was handed the job. In my opinion, her qualifications are probably the one thing that shouldn't be in dispute.

[The Chao Goes Mu]

Ghanima, I hope you don't take this the wrong way 'cause I'm not trying to shit all in your thread. But I find it disturbing that whenever a top-level appointee that happens to be black is discussed, people feel compelled to bring up affirmative action and pose questions about their intelligence and/or qualifications.

There's no mystery about why she was chosen. I mean, the woman has served 4 years as Bush's national security advisor, which is certainly enough time for Dubya to figure out if she's the kind of person he wants on his team. Nothing stinks in her resume. She's fluent in 4 foreign languages and has letters behind her name. Her good rapport with the president is a well-known fact. It's not as if she just strolled in off the street and was handed the job. In my opinion, her qualifications are probably the one thing that shouldn't be in dispute.


Yeah, if you listen close enough to those kinds of comments, it's almost as if you're hearing,
"She's a fine Secretary of State, ya know, for a black woman"
That attitude burns my arse.

[Ghanima]

It's obvious that she is qualified. What I was musing about was if that's the sole reason she got the position. I think if you read all the posts in this thread carefully that no one is saying she's not qualified.

I can see how the question is unclear, and I'm sorry. I meant "Which reason is more important/advantageous to George?" not "Is she qualified?" Apologies for the lack of clarity. When I mentioned affirmative action at the cabinet level, I mean that I doubt that placing a less qualified person based on their race would EVER apply to filling these positions. However, one might place an equally qualified person based on their race.

That doesn't remove the distinct possibility that George was fully aware of the advantage and is going to use that advantage. Why wouldn't he?

[Larry Mudd]

Tell me you're being facetious. Cite?

All I've ever heard of was a memo that said "Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.," and that there were some suspicions about the Arabs in flight schools kicking around the lower levels of the FBI.Of course Eve is being facetious, but Condi's grim insistence that the memo was "non-specific" and an uninteresting account of "historical" data was pretty ludicrous. Here's a PDF of the PDB (http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf).

A short, sweet memo which warns that al Qaeda members were currently working within the US, that they intended to carry out attacks in Washington and New York, and that the FBI had observed "patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York."

Obviously, it wasn't "Colonel Mustard, in the Library, with a Letter Opener," but it was more than enough to warrant immediate concern. The received wisdom was that Bin Laden and al Qaeda were the previous administration's "obsession," though. So la la la. Keep your eye on the ball: How do we get from here to marching on Iraq?

[MLS]

I love the take that James Lileks (http://lileks.com/bleats/archive/04/1104/111604.html) had on this appointment:

Oh, there’s news; the cabinet shakeup is interesting. Yay Condi Rice. I want her to go to Saudi Arabia, and I want her first words upon getting off the plane to be “I’ll drive.” As for the Department of Education, I’d like to see an experiment: let the position go unfilled for four years and see if it has any impact on the educational abilities of the nation’s youth. I’m guessing no one would notice if we didn’t have a Secretary of Education. Everyone just keep on doing what you’re doing, and get back to us.

[BobT]

Condoleezza did it

[rjung]

I want to know why she wasn't fired after the 9/11 hearings, rather than being promoted.
That's how things work in the Bush Administration. When you screw up, you get promoted.

[Czarcasm]

Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.

[Lumpy]

Another vote for "she's gotta' be Bush's secret mistress". OK, I know that's unfair, but somehow I'm obsessed by the idea. In a perverse way I want it to be true.

[John Mace]

There's no mystery about why she was chosen. I mean, the woman has served 4 years as Bush's national security advisor, which is certainly enough time for Dubya to figure out if she's the kind of person he wants on his team. Nothing stinks in her resume. She's fluent in 4 foreign languages and has letters behind her name. Her good rapport with the president is a well-known fact. It's not as if she just strolled in off the street and was handed the job. In my opinion, her qualifications are probably the one thing that shouldn't be in dispute.

Her relationship with Bush (Sr and Jr) goes back a lot longer than just the last 4 years. She's reputed to be Jr's closest adviser. Her negative is that her experience from way back is Soviet affairs, but I would presume she's had a lot of on-the-job training re the Middle East.

[rjung]

She's got an oil tanker after her.

Wouldn't surprise me if, in Dubya's eyes, that makes her an object of lust... ;)

[grayhairedmomma]

Bush can now use her as a mouthpiece. Liberals who refuse to listen to him are more likely to listen to her because she's a black woman.

Why would you think that after we just spent 4 years watching her be a subpar NSA, that she would have credibility now? Her minority status isn't going to change her history.

[mack]

Liberals who refuse to listen to him are more likely to listen to her because she's a black woman. Also it makes her less vulnerable to liberal attacks. I think it may be that simple.
Or not. Remember the 9/11 commission hearings? Nobody's cutting her slack because she's a black woman. Please.

She was picked because she's on the team. If you're a fan of Bush administration foreign policy, it's a great choice. Everybody's on the same page.....which is not a good thing if you're not a fan of Bush administration foreign policy.

[Ghanima]

Why would you think that after we just spent 4 years watching her be a subpar NSA, that she would have credibility now?Well, because people are stupid. I stand by my theory that there definitely people out there who if they saw Bush would change the channel, but if they saw her making the same statements they would be far more likely to listen. I'm not saying these are the intelligentsia of our country.

[Loopydude]

I think the main issue for Condi may be managerial skills. She's eminently qualified in the realm of smarts and knowledge; but State is not the NSC. It's a massive, fairly horizontal beaurocracy with a lot of petty feifdoms. Supposedly she did a fairly poor job of managing internal conflicts in her former job; and those sorts of problems are going to be more accute for trying replace Powell and Armitage (who were much beloved by the Under Secretaries and sundry embassadors, reportedly). She reportedly has had some conflicts with Armitage in the recent past, so unless they really clean house in State, she's going to be dealing with a lot of subordinates who don't respect her authority, and have little incentive to play nice.

[David Simmons]

Not in public -- Powell always kept his disputes in private

Maybe as Secretary of State, but not as Chairman of the JCS.

He publicly disagreed with Clinton's original stand on gays in the military, using the same arguments as had been advanced against Truman's desegregation of the armed forces.

What he did was insubordination in my view but Clinton was too unfamiliar with military protocol and uncertain of his power to tell him to either resign or carry out the policy.

So it would seem to me that Powell was only "good soldier Powell" when it suited him.

[David Simmons]

And here's a cite that confirms Powell's public refusal (http://www.facts.com/icof/i00062.htm) to carry out the Commander in Chief's policy.

"Clinton faced powerful military ... opposition to lifting the ban. Gen. Colin Powell, then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff ... announced that [he] would seek to block ... attempts to lift the ban.

[Zagadka]

A perfect example of somebody failing upwards...kind of like Bush.
Never mind gravity defiance, I think NASA needs to install instruments in everyone in the Bush Administration, just to figure out how the bloody hell they manage to still be alive, given the amount of bungling they do

[furt]

(remember the "my husband" gaffe, anyone?).No. Linkage?

[David Simmons]

She was picked because she's on the team.

Bush seems to be picking a new cabinet composed mainly of sychophantic staffers who automatically give an unquestioning "yes" on all occasions.

Others have mentioned that Cabinet officers carry out the President's policies. That's true, but those policies ought to be thoroughly examined by competent and skeptical staffers before being put into action.

[rjung]

So it would seem to me that Powell was only "good soldier Powell" when it suited him.
Well, he is a Republican... ;)

[MMI]

Based on her pre-2000 resume and adding four years as NSA - yeah, of course she's qualified, whatever that means. That doesn't mean that over the past four years she has established herself as a straight shooter or any sort of independent voice (though one may hope she is both behind the scenes).

That said, it is unlikely that I would be thrilled with anyone Bush is likely to appoint to state. And if I did admire them prior to appointment, it is unlikely that such respect would survive their tenure (see Powell, Colin). The Bush model of government is very hierarchical, so any independent voice is unlikely to remain vocal and employed. (My objection to this is no doubt more to the current apex of the hierarchy than to the model itself)

Still, I find Condi to be on the whole inoffensive, compared to her new deputy Bolton.

[mack]

No. Linkage?


http://nymetro.com/nymetro/news/people/columns/intelligencer/n_10245/

At a recent dinner party hosted by New York Times D.C. bureau chief Philip Taubman and his wife, Times reporter Felicity Barringer, and attended by Arthur Sulzberger Jr., Maureen Dowd, Steven Weisman, and Elisabeth Bumiller, Rice was reportedly overheard saying, “As I was telling my husb—” and then stopping herself abruptly, before saying, “As I was telling President Bush.” Jaws dropped, but a guest says the slip by the unmarried politician, who spends weekends with the president and his wife, seemed more psychologically telling than incriminating. Nobody thinks Bush and Rice are actually an item. A National Security Council spokesman laughed and said, “No comment.”