Maybe hell's cool!

Well, there is certainly a running humor theme that more fun will be had in hell. After all, who really dreams of sitting around on clouds playing harps?

Which reminds me of why I believe that the LDS (Mormon) church holds such appeal for so many (growing by leaps and bounds, doncha know). It's because it's the only religion *I* have ever heard of that basically promises that after death nothing will change...NOT EVEN SEX! You still get to screw your spouse's brains out. Which, while it might not be QUITE as much fun as screwing everyone's brains out, certainly beats sitting around on clouds and playing harps, eh?



------------------
Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

I'm going to hell because all my friends are gonna be there. :)

I'd much rather go to Hell because of the possibility of career advancement.
In addition, Heaven will probably be full of the sort of religious dunderhead that is bound to take great offense at this thread and join in with things like "I can't believe you aren't taking this seriously, Hell is REAL".

PS Succubi = gorgeous; cherubim = underage.

"If it's heaven for climate, it's hell for company."
--James M. Barrie

Plus we're going to have hot dogs and marshmallows in Hell.

I'll bring the beer!

I saw the South Park movie this weekend, and in a particular scene in which Kenny dies, two signs are shown: The first reads "Heaven, Pop. 1,656"; the second reads "Hell, Pop. 923,769,879" or some similarly outrageous number which is growing by leaps and bounds every second. Got a kick out of that. Oh, and Hell's residents included Hussein, Hitler, George Burns and Gandhi.

[quote]In addition, Heaven will probably be full of the sort of religious
dunderhead that is bound to take great offense at this thread and join
in with things like "I can't believe you aren't taking this seriously,
Hell is REAL".[quote/]

Ummmm, yea, it's too obvious, even for ME.

But Stoidela mentioned something that caught my eye. She says, [quote]It's because it's the only religion *I* have ever heard of that
basically promises that after death nothing will change...NOT EVEN SEX![quote\]

Is that really what they believe? That nothing will change? Pshhh. Yet they deny that they're a cult.

Adam

Arg:

Well, I take issue with you calling them a "cult", and I'd be interested in knowing how you define that word. However odd their brand may be, they ARE Chritians, just like you and a zillion other people. They believe that Jesus is their savior. They just happen to believe a whole bunch of additional stuff besides.

But as for the particulars of Mormon theology, yeah, if you do everythign according to plan, you get to reunited with your spouse in heaven, re-enter your physical body, and pretty much pick up where you left off. Tha'ts the whole point of the serious ritual of Mormon marriage...you are married here AND in the afterlife. unless you get divorced...

But delve deeper and things REALLY get interesting. If thing go REALLY well for you in Mormon-Land, YOU TOO can become an all-powerful diety, and you and your spouse can do your thing and have spirit children, and populate your very own planet with them! Isnt' that neat? Find me a religion with better promises than THAT, I dare ya!



------------------
Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Not to interrupt another Mormon - Anti-Mormon slug fest, or anything...

But I've never understood why Satan is interested in punishing evil doers. If He's evil, wouldn't he reward sinners? Wouldn't He be more interested in punishing good people? I mean, Hitler may be in Hell, but he's got to be one of the TOP guys down there.

Well, let's just call Mormonism a "false religion." I'm not sure who started calling LDS, JW, Scientologists...and tons of other little religions, "cults." But that's what I've heard in every church I've ever been to. But I'm not here to bash the church of LDS. They're confused enough as it is.

Aseymayo says: "But I've never understood why Satan is interested in punishing evil
doers. If He's evil, wouldn't he reward sinners? Wouldn't He be more
interested in punishing good people? I mean, Hitler may be in Hell, but
he's got to be one of the TOP guys down there."

I think it may help you to know that it's not Satan who punishes evil doers. It's God. Satan loves it when people sin. It's what he lives for. His hates all people. And he hates us all with the same degree. He has no favorites. If you're human, he wants you dead.

A common misconception is that Satan is the "big boss" of hell. This is not true. Satan actually resides here on earth. The Bible says that Satan is the god of this world. He is Christ's chief adversary.

Hell is actually the place made to punish Satan. In the end times, Satan will be thrown into the "lake of burning sulfer." He will not rule there. Like all sinners, he will be "tormented day and night, forever."

So there is no heirarchy in hell. No big bosses, no top guys. It's a place of eternal punishment.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit. :)

Adam

If it's so easy for God to toss Satan into the lake of burning sulphur, there to suffer for all eternity, why wait? Why not just do it now and leave the way clear for Jesus so he won't HAVE an adversary?

Oh..wait...I forgot about God's penchant for mind games and tests... never mind.



------------------
Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Since history is written by the victors who says that Heaven is the good place and Hell the bad?

------------------
Thor

Stoid asks:If it's so easy for God to toss Satan into the lake of burning sulphur,
there to suffer for all eternity, why wait? Why not just do it now and
leave the way clear for Jesus so he won't HAVE an adversary?


Well, that's an EXCELLENT question Stoidela. Who knows why God has waited this long. He's God right? He COULD have come back during the Dark Ages, or whenever He wanted to. My best (and simple) guess, is that He's giving us as much time as possible, before He comes to take us home. But I hope He comes soon, cause I'm itching to get to heaven. :)

But I hope He comes soon, cause I'm itching to get to heaven.

Do you have any idea how creepy that sounds?

And don't you think you oughta appreciate the gift of life that He gave you instead of being in such a goldurned rush to shuck it off and bail to the promised land? Seems a mite ungrateful if you ask me.

------------------
Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Script as follows:

ARG220: But I hope He comes soon, cause I'm itching to get to Heaven. (Smiles)

Person driven crazy by aboves repeated slurs on others religious beliefs: Well now, I've got just the thing to take care of that itch! (Chambers round in gun)


------------------
sosumi

Why does it sound creepy that I want to go to heaven? Don't get me wrong. I don't want to die just yet. (I'm not scared of death though) I want to finish college, get married, have kids...etc. But as beautiful as life is here on earth sometimes, it's nothing compared to heaven. Wouldn't you agree?

And I appreciate, and thank God for the life He's given me. But as I said, it's not exactly heaven, if you know what I mean.


Adam

Hey, as far as I'm concerned, all theistic religions and most nontheistic ones are both false and cults. So, it appears to be a matter of perspective, huh?

Anyway, anyone over the age of 10 who still believes in hell is obviously incapable of the most tenuous skills in critical thinking.

But as beautiful as life is here on earth sometimes, it's nothing compared to
heaven. Wouldn't you agree?

And I appreciate, and thank God for the life He's given me. But as I said, it's not exactly heaven, if you know what I mean.

No, I dont' know what you mean, and how can I agree with you when even you dont' know what you're talking about. You've never been to heaven, have you? You've been told about it...by people who have also never been there.

And that aside, I find the agony and teh ecstasy of life utterly heavenly. Perfection. I'd live forever if I could.



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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Sorry ARG, have to inject a little reality here. You asked above:

Well, let's just call Mormonism a "false religion." I'm not sure who started calling LDS, JW, Scientologists...and tons of other little religions, "cults." But that's what I've heard in every church I've ever been to.

You've got no argument from me on Scientology. But LDS and JW being "cults"? Quite honestly, dear, the same could be said about you and other Pentecostal Christians. Seems like a cult to me. No questioning of authority, trying to convert everyone....

And I'm with Stoidela on the whole heaven thing. You don't know what heaven is like, only what other people have told you. And no matter what trials I have had in this life (and there have been plenty...), I'd prefer being here to being in heaven. Especially if I had to be up there for eternity with people like you.

I've never really been able to put together any kind of coherent (to me) concept of Hell. If Sisyphus decides to just blow off pushing that rock up the hill, what are the powers that be going to do? Poke him? Poke him where? Afterall, isn't he sans body (How does he get a grip on the rock?)?

Or maybe the idea is that you do occupy some sort of body just so you can be tortured. It seems to me that after awhile, if the poking and burning, etc., can't kill you, you'd just get used to it.

Even if you had to endlessly watch Kris Kristoferson (sp?) movies, you'd probably just wind up getting into 'em.

This is leading me to think that without any physical threat, the powers that be have little leverage over the Damned. Civil insurrection in the streets of Hell - if it hasn't happened yet, wait'll I get there!

What I really don't understand is why religious folks have no sense of humor.

No sex in Heaven? That settles it. Hail Satan!

What an interesting thread. Sorry I didn't get here sooner. Some of you are very confused.
ARG you're the least of the confused. You have it right that Satan tortures the damned because he hates us. As Lucifer, he wanted to overthrow God because God put us above the angels. The old Pride and Arrogance sins were his(Lucifer's) babies. It's cool that you actually WANT to go to heaven, but don't say that too much. My grandmother's husband died thirty years before I was born, and all my bday and Christmas cards said "have a good day. I wish I was with my Sigurd and my Jesus now" Kinda took the fun out of birthdays.
Heath- you doofus, your friends may be in Hell, but do you think you'll see them? You'll have your time occupied with eternal torture, no coffee breaks or recess to hang out with your pals.
Beatle- doofus #2, spritual torture is worse than physical, because you don't pass out, faint or die from exaustion as you would if you were alive. And no you won't get used to the pain.
Aseymayo- there's no sex in Hell either. Sex makes people happy, and Satan doesn't want people to be happy.


------------------
"On the edge of sleep, I awoke to a sun so bright..."

So what is spiritual torture?

Is your life so filled with hate, crime, and sin that you'd give up sex
to be free of it? Not mine!

Well, I'm not married, so I've never had sex. So it's not like I'd be "giving up" sex. I have no idea what it's like to begin with.
Asraek: Great post! You posted it while I was typing out this one. Don't worry about me saying I want to go to heaven too much. There's a lot on this earth that I still want to do before Jesus comes back. But if He comes back today, you're not going to hear one little complaint from me! :)

As for Lucifer (Satan): Did you know that he was second to God in heaven? He was the head worship leader, and was the top angel. But like you said, he got too prideful, and arrogant. Apparently, he collected a band of rebel angels with him. When God threw Lucifer out of heaven, all of his goons went with him, and became demons. I think what happened to Satan is a good illustration of how much God hates sin. He kicked His own angels out of heaven. It's no wonder Satan HATES God so much.

Adam

ARG220 wrote:

Well, let's just call Mormonism a "false religion." I'm not sure who started calling LDS, JW, Scientologists...and tons of other little religions, "cults." But that's what I've heard in every church I've ever been to. But I'm not here to bash the church of LDS. They're confused enough as it is.

Adam, a few questions:

1. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon? Prayed to God about it and asked Him if it's true or not?

2. Have you ever even attended an LDS Sacrament Meeting? Sunday School? Social function, service project, etc.?

3. Ever heard the leaders speak at "General Conference," which is twice a year (April and October)?

4. Ever studied LDS theology in general, even? Taken the missionary discussions?

If not, PLEASE stop bashing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I'm inactive in this church, but I have a testimony that it's true. We're Christians, we believe in the Bible, and we believe in the living Christ as the center of our faith. A "false religion"? Hardly.

Adam, look at it this way:

Person A has never read the Bible or studied Christianity, but has had people tell him that the Bible is not true.

Person B has studied the Bible and Christianity and has come to the conclusion that they are false.

Person C has studied the Bible and Christianity and has come to the conclusion that they are true.

You meet with Persons A, B and C. Person A tells you that the Bible is not true, although he has never read it. Person B tells you that the Bible is not true, and that he has studied it extensively but never received a witness in his heart that it is true. Person C tells you that the Bible is true, and that he has studied it extensively and received a witness in his heart from God that it is true.

My question: Which person(s) are you more likely to take seriously, the ones who have actually studied Christianity, or the one who's never studied it but has just "heard" that it isn't true?

Snarkberry: I am not interested in bashing the church of LDS. To answer your questions, no, I have not read the Book of Mormon, or been to any meetings, or set foot in a Mormon church.

Here's what I've heard about Mormon beliefs. They believe that Jesus was Satan's brother. And that when you die you can have your own little world, and be a little "god."
Then there's that whole polygamy thing. And I'm pretty sure they deny the deity of Christ, i.e. that He's not God.

Tell me if I was wrong about any of those things, ok? And if I am right, then surely you understand why I call LDS a false religion.

And to answer your persons ABC question: I'd go with person C.

Instead of arguing, maybe you could point out some of the major tenets of the Mormon faith. That way I could call you on them, and not be blamed for ignorance of your faith.

Adam

What is spiritual torture?

When our physical bodies are burned severely, or tortured mercilessly, we die, and that's the end of it. Sure, it causes indescribable pain, but once you're dead, the pain stops.

Hell is a different story. When we die, our souls live on, and we enter the supernatural realm. Now, every human, will exist, forever and ever. It just depends on whether it's in heaven, or in hell. To be in hell means that you are literaly DYING FOREVER.

In hell: There will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." The "fire will never go out." The "worm does not die." (Now I've been taught that this means the body will be consumed by grubs, and exist in a rotting, putrescent condition forever.) There are "gloomy dungeons," and it's a "fiery furnace." And the "smoke of their torment rises forever and ever." (Everything in quotations is directly from the Bible, and I'll be glad to give Scripture refference if anybody asks.)

Now all that sounds horrible enough. But here is one of the worst tortures of all: Those that are in hell will be able to see what's going on in heaven. Just ponder that for a second. While you are being tortured, you will be able to see the glory of heaven, and the perfection that you're missing. (This is backed up in Luke 16)

So, to make a long story short...hell is definetly NOT cool.

Adam

HEY!! Watch the Kris K. jibes! I'd give that man a blowjob kneeling on glass, ok?



------------------
Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Obviously, I don't know exactly what heaven is like. But I'll tell you what I do know (according to the Bible...and it's not in Revelation where it might be misinterpreted)

In heaven, our bodies will be recongizable, and identifiable. The disciples recognized Jesus when He rose from the grave.

We will be supernatural, and therefore, invinsible. There will be no more sickness, no more pain. We will be able to eat, and drink. (will it be "heaven food?" I'm not sure)

There is no marriage in heaven. And since sex is ONLY to be used INSIDE of marriage, it's a garantee that there's also no sex in heaven. So, if there's ONE downside, it would have to be this one.

So, from what we DO know about it, heaven is already going to be a far better place than earth. Plus, it's a perfect world. No sin, no hate, no crime...etc. I mean, really, what more could you ask for?

Adam

Arg:

Sounds like a recipe for a permanent coma!

Is your life so filled with hate, crime, and sin that you'd give up sex to be free of it? Not mine!

See, this is exactly what I meant about why LDS is so damned attractive! Sex, eventually becoming an all-powerful God yourself...totally blows away the competition. Your version of the afterlife sounds perfectly awful to me. (except for the eating part. But if I can eat all I want, still look fantastic, but never have sex, what's the friggin' point?)



------------------
Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

The Inferno Cont3 is talking about was written by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. It's an intriguing read, and it gives a good reason for hell, and reconciles the existence of hell with a loving God. I'm still an atheist, but if I was to believe in the Christian religion, this is likely to be the only way I could stomach it.

I refuse to go into the book in depth, because it would spoil it. But don't be put off by the fact that the authors write science fiction.


------------------
Lynn the Packrat

Snark:
Person A has never read the Bible or studied Christianity, but has had people tell him that the Bible is not true.

Person B has studied the Bible and Christianity and has come to the conclusion that they are false.

Person C has studied the Bible and Christianity and has come to the conclusion that they are true.

ARG:
And to answer your persons ABC question: I'd go with person C.

And, therefore, since you have never read the religious texts or studied the beliefs of LDS or, let's face it, the majority of religions, you are person A in the scenario and Snark is person C.

And, no, I won't be posting further in this thread.

Kat:

WOO HOO! HIGH FIVE!!!!!

(giggling uncontrollably) NAILED HIM!



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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

1. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon? Prayed to God about it and asked Him if it's true or not?

Yep.

2. Have you ever even attended an LDS Sacrament Meeting? Sunday School? Social function, service project, etc.?

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

3. Ever heard the leaders speak at "General Conference," which is twice a year (April and October)?

Yes, indeedy!

4. Ever studied LDS theology in general, even? Taken the missionary discussions?

Sho' nuff on both counts, suh.

If not, PLEASE stop bashing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.[/quote]

Since I answered yes to all of the above (truthfully!), may I now proceed with bashing?



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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

ARG220 wrote:

Instead of arguing, maybe you could point out some of the major tenets of the Mormon faith. That way I could call you on them, and not be blamed for ignorance of your faith.

Adam, I have only one thing to say to you right now, because I just got back from an all-night drive and am very, very tired:

If you want to learn about the LDS religion, you can go to this site, read up on it, and order a free Book of Mormon:

http://www.lds.org/

Hope this helps. :)

ARG-- I like your statment above--quoted directly from the bible.

I agree--hell aint cool

------------------


"In wildness is the preservation of the world, so seek the wolf inside thyself"

AzreaK - you are the doofus because you wouldn't know sarcasm and wicked humor if it bit you on the nose. You are a former Satanist and I am a former Pentecostal Christian. I for one think that they are both mind-numbing. I am making a great assumption here, but I think I can say that we both feel deprived and deceived by our former faiths. I am not not anti-God, but I am anti-religion in all respects and feel I can poke fun at any of its insipid antics at convincing others to swallow all the crap that is supposedly required of people if they want any kind relationship with God: Hell included.

Snark: If you want to discuss the differences between LDS, and Christianity, then maybe you could start a new thread. I went to that website, and well...it was "interesting." But, thanks for the link anyway.

And Heath: You were a Pentecostal Christian???? What happened to you? What made you backslide?

::::Banging head against brick wall repeatedly::::

For the last time, Adam, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints IS a Christian church. Look at the name of the church very closely. Do you see a reference to Jesus Christ? If so, what does that imply to you? Sheesh!

Snark:

Dont' bother. Arg's brand is the ONLY brand, and anything that ain't HIS brand is a cult.

You oughta know the drill by now: anything that doesn't fit in with his view of the world, based upon his religious convictions, simply isn't true or doesnt' exist. And you could surgically implant the fact that Mormons are Christians into his brain and he still wouldn't acknowledge it.

Hey, this is a guy who doesn't "Get" why anyone who calls themselves a Christian doesn't speak in tongues, ok?

(You do gotta admit, though, that while you guys may believe in Jesus Christ as your personal savior, this whole business of multiple gods (one for each planet) and becoming a god yoruself and populating your own planet...well, that's a pretty fur piece from the path that most Christians understand)

------------------
Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Snark: It's not your fault that you're a very confused individual. You simply haven't learned the true meaning of what it is to be a Christian. I don't mean to be insulting, or sound arrogant. And I don't think that my "brand," i.e. Pentecostal Christianity, is the only true way.

I've always hated the fact that denominations exist. As you probably know, there are many Protestant denominations, one of which is Pentecostal. Stoid misunderstood me, and misquoted me, but I said that I can't understand why a true Christian would not follow the ENTIRE Bible.

LDS have the Book of Mormon. Now, they say that this is "another testimony of Jesus Christ." Well, I find that odd, since the Book of Mormon directly CONTRADICTS the Bible.
(One example: It says that Satan is Jesus's brother in the book of Abraham. This is NOT true, and found NOWHERE in the Bible.)

Oh my, look at the time. I wish I had more time to disect every aspect of this rediculous religion you call Mormonism. Study the Bible, and study all of LDS's teachings. You'll see that Mormons are some of the most confused, decieved people on this planet. (No offense.)

Adam

you all seem to be forgetting one important thing, its not really a thing, its you!
we all have a thinking personality, we consider carefully what is true and what is false, its something that has been imprinted into our brains. for as long as we know we have belived in some sort of god, be it an animal spirit, mother earth, nirvana or god. whatever it is, we made it. YES! WE MADE GOD
it was people like us who wrote the bible, told the tales, sang the songs etc. what i am doing now is creating too, jesus was a philosopher like sokrates, like muhamed, as was buddah and all the other too. doesnt really matter, the stories are ours, we go where we want to. if hell is a fun place, please feel free to go there to life a wonderful afterlife, if heaven is the place you made for your comforts, please feel free to enjoy it. if you love earth, please dont pester us other beings with tales that are far from any truth, but marely tales made to educate the mind on matters we all need to survive as a species. do not misunderstand them as words some almighty entity is trying to relate to us, but think of them as a guide to society in which we can all live in.
every major religion in the world has one basis, be good to other beings. as a warning it is said that bad people are punished(not because they are fun, but because the hurt other beings). but one thing they forget that is important everywhere, especially in raising a kid, never ever make a threat you arent capable of following through. thus never make a threat you really dont want to happen.

ARG220 wrote:

Snark: It's not your fault that you're a very confused individual. You simply haven't learned the true meaning of what it is to be a Christian.

No, actually, it's because schizophrenia hasn't been cured yet. Go figure.

LDS have the Book of Mormon. Now, they say that this is "another testimony of Jesus Christ." Well, I find that odd, since the Book of Mormon directly CONTRADICTS the Bible.
(One example: It says that Satan is Jesus's brother in the book of Abraham. This is NOT true, and found NOWHERE in the Bible.)

Jesus and you are brothers, Jesus and I are brothers, and Jesus and the entire human family are brothers and sisters.

Oh my, look at the time. I wish I had more time to disect every aspect of this rediculous religion you call Mormonism. Study the Bible, and study all of LDS's teachings. You'll see that Mormons are some of the most confused, decieved people on this planet. (No offense.)

None taken. I have studied the Bible, and I have studied LDS teachings, and I find them to be quite compatible with each other. But then, I'm just "confused." Ad hominem, your table is ready. <g>

Oh my, look at the time. I wish I had more time to disect every aspect of this rediculous religion you call Mormonism. Study the Bible, and study all of LDS's teachings. You'll see that Mormons are some of the most confused, decieved people on this planet. (No offense.)

Adam

You're just a-rackin up those black marks in heaven, aren'tcha Christian-Boy?



------------------
&gt;^,,^&lt;
KITTEN

He who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok. - Confucius

It seems that somebody has summoned me to another thread. I think I'm going to post all my comments there, to make things easier. So, if you want to discuss stuff, then come on over to the "ARG220, over here!" thread.

By the way, Diane: I don't understand your joke about me and black marks. Did you think I'm doing all this for brownie points? No, I just want to see the lost become found, and I want the blind to see. :)

Adam.

I come back from vacation and find you've moved the party! Yippee! Now that this is in the BBQ pit, I can say something I've been dying to say. Adam, in the language of my very own loving father -- "Boy, you've got a head like a bent shit-can lid."

Bill James' little girl, Jess

BTW, everyone -- I'll bring the graham crackers and chocolate bars. After all, it wouldn't be Hell without S'Mores...

Jess

ahem...black marks are not brownie points, they are strikes. Do you really think that trashing other religions is something that G-d is going to look kindly on? Take off your own blinders before you go trying to remove everyone else's.

By the way, Diane: I don't understand your joke about me and black
marks. Did you think I'm doing all this for brownie points? No, I just
want to see the lost become found, and I want the blind to see.

Adam.

Brownie points? Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa - not hardly.

I would have thought you, more than anyone, would be familiar with that Great Slate in the Sky that God uses to log ticky-marks of un-Christian-like behavior.

Next time you want to trash someone, ask yourself, What Would Jesus Do? (to be referred from this point on as WWJD - not to be confused with WWRJD (Hi Jeff)). ;)

::::Jeeez, I am so good I have almost convinced myself.::::

Amen



------------------
&gt;^,,^&lt;
KITTEN

He who walk through airport door sideways going to Bangkok. - Confucius

Arg:

You know, being snide, sarcsctic and derisive is not erased when you say "no offense". You dont' get to be as rude as you like and then wave it away when you say that.

You tell someone they are deceived and their religion is ridiculous, you are being offensive and you are meaning to be. Now, dont' get me wrong, I happen to think LDS is ridiculous myself, but I also think Pentecostal Christianity is just as ridiculous. But that's not the point. Your tone was decidedly rude... and if that's how you are going to communicate, you should take responsibility for it.



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Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Lot of interesting talks going on.
I love a fanatic convention.

You see, the more you try to sqeese your religion into other peoples minds the more they will despice you.

And as always everybody is claiming to be right and everybody else is to go straight to hell.
Well then I hope I'm right because than only me and a couple of selected femails will go to the place of raw meat and beer for a continus blowjob festival.

Live long (or short in the case of ARG) and prosper.

PS:You might want to check on the subject it rather cool.

PPS:ARG sex IS amazing, utterly, utterly, utterly better than any god, and the good thing is you can have that in quantity and quolity (something that god does not offer)

------------------
Thor

LDS have the Book of Mormon. Now, they say that this is "another testimony of Jesus Christ." Well, I find that odd, since the Book of Mormon directly CONTRADICTS the Bible.
(One example: It says that Satan is Jesus's brother in the book of Abraham. This is NOT true, and found NOWHERE in the Bible.)

Book of Abraham's not in the Book of Mormon; it's in the Pearl of Great Price.

Sheesh.

i cant belive no one has commented to what i said?¿ i find that quite....strange to say the least, did everybody agree? or what? helpful nod over there is always nice, an angry voice in my ear is too! exept if you mention either, god, president, allah and stuff like that. cause if you do you will be traced, recorded, and booked! ;)
--------------------------------------------
silence is considered as yes!

ARG wrote in 7-4:
"In heaven, our bodies will be recongizable, and identifiable..."
"We will be supernatural, and therefore, invinsible..."
"...We will be able to eat, and drink."

So, these bodies are physically real, yet supernatural and invisible. I'm assuming these spirit bodies will have physical mass, unless perhaps the food and drink is supernatural and invisible as well.
Actually, it wouldn't matter if the food were invisible, because if the spirit people are invisible they would be blind due to the fact that light would pass through their transparent retinas.

Everyone will be recognizable and identifiable, but not by sight, since everyone is blind and invisible. Most likely, people will recognize each other by touch, or maybe smell (possibly the smell of the invisible food they spilled on their invisible shirts). Hey, maybe they won't have retinas (or any eye parts at all)- really, what would be the point, if they're all blind anyway? They WILL have to have mouths, however, in order to consume the food and drink.

Probably no sexual organs, though. They would be useless since sex would be a no-no, and it would hardly be paradise if everyone was desperately horny, especially when everyone is going around groping each other as they try to identify and recognize their companions. ("Do I know you? Here, let me examine your ******. Yep, it's you."

Whats wrong with hell? Id get to meet the mastermind Hitler AND get a suntan for once! (everyone remember their sunblock 3000 proof!)

Does anyone know the "kindling temperature" of sulphur? The Bible mentions
"fire and brimstone"(sulphur) in the "lake of fire," which may not be the same thing. That said, according to the Guinness Book of World Records, the hottest temperature withstood by humans (in Air Force experiments) was 500 degrees, Fahrenheit, about 240 Celsius, I suppose. 500 degrees--and steaks cook at 325! So how hot is burning sulphur?

Is the burnung sulphur going to somehow contribute to the spiritual torture, or are we going to use it to cook steaks?

Well Holly, I goofed. You thought that "invinsible" meant "invisible." Not at all. What I MEANT to say was INVINCIBLE. Our bodies will be supernatural and therefore invincible. Actually, your post cracked me up though. :) I like the line about trying to recognize your friends by groping them. LOL.

BTW, heaven also knows no time, or distance, or many other things that we're restricted by here on earth. It has been theorized, that in heaven, we will be able to transport ourselves anywhere, kind of like a site to site transport on "Star Trek." All we'll need to do is think of where we want to go, and we'll beam right over. It's a cool idea, and of course hypothetical, but I can't wait to see what it'll be like. :)

Adam

Supernatural, invincible, and able to transcend time and space. Hmmm, sounds pretty god-like to me. So, the Mormons are right, after all!

Those that are in hell will be able to see what's going on in heaven. Just ponder that for a second. While you are being tortured, you will be able to see the glory of heaven, and the perfection that you're missing.

I see it now. Big movie screens and screaming infants and pagan children kicking the back of your chair. Popcorn with maggots and flem. People will be smoking and mothers breastfeeding their babies. God will be on the screen--zoom in to a c/u--he will turn and say, "Aren't you sorry now? For the rest of eternity you will watch something like The Truman Show and Leave it to Beaver. Those in heaven will laugh it off knowing that those in hell are watching them in paradise.

Hey Arg, how about a cite from the Bible, saying that humans will be invincible, nonphysical beings?

IIRC, Revelation talks about the city of God in terms as though it were an actual, physical city. It even gives measurements of its size-- 144,000 cubits square is the number that comes to mind, but I'm not sure whether that's correct.

(I used to be a devout Catholic, and dated a Jehovah's Witness for several months. We had some interesting arguments about the Bible, let me tell you.)

Let's all make a pact right now. When we find ourselves together in hell, we'll stage a coup and take over. We'll bring in some air conditioners, set the place up nice. Nothing to stop us; now who's with me?

You want some quotes from the Bible, I'll give you some. In the second chapter of Acts the apostle Peter quotes Psalm 16:10. One inference of this passage is that Jesus Christ was there himself, so I don't buy the notion that "hell"is a place of eternal fiery torture. In the 9th chapter of Ecclesiastes it says "the dead are conscious of nothing." More to the point, there are 66 occurrences of the Hebrew word "sheol" in the Old Testament; in the King James Version, the Living Bible, Moffatt, and many other translations into English, "sheol" is not translated consistently with "hell"or any other english word; much the same is true with two Greek words, "Hades" and "Geenna," in the New Testament. Surprisingly enough, no passage in the Bible says the Devil or demons are in Hades or Gehenna.

ARG- sorry I misinterpreted your "invincible" with "invisible". I think it was your spelling that threw me. ;)

Here's a question: will the occupants of heaven have knowledge of the suffering of those in hell? Say you're in heaven and you can't find your mom there. Wouldn't it then be logical to assume that she's in hell? How would it be possible to enjoy heaven, knowing your loved ones (or even non-loved ones) were being tortured?
Personally, I'd choose to be in hell because it would be unbearable for me to be in heaven while anyone else, even someone I'd never met, was suffering.

Along that line, how could a loving god be content knowing his "children" are suffering?

I've done some research on Jehovah's Witnesses and the one doctrine of theirs that makes sense to me is that hell as a place of eternal torment does not exist. They interpret "sheol" as the grave, meaning the dead are just simply dead.

Which is why I mentioned Psalm 16:10, as quoted by the Apostle Peter in Acts Chapter 2. In the Douay Bible (Book of Genesis), where Jacob thought Joseph was dead, he expected he might someday join Joseph in "hell." In all but 3 places in the Douay Bible (rendered from the Latin Vulgate), the Latin infernus/inferus is rendered "hell"; I seriously doubt that Jacob thought Joseph had gone there, nor did he expect to go there someday himself. (See also Job 14:13, in any translation.)

Adam:The New Jerusalem is what you're thinking of Auraseer. It is the main city of heaven, and will be enormous. It's a walled city, with twelve gates, representing the Twelve Tribes of Israel.
You mean you have to live in a gated community when you die? This qualifies as another reason I wouldn't much care for it.

Inre whether those in heaven would be aware of what was going on in hell:Yes, I believe so. There is a judgement in heaven called the Great White Throne judgement.
Adam, as you've no doubt noticed, I do not know a great deal about the type of Christianity that you practice. That said, what are you referring to with the "Great White Throne judgement"? It sounds a bit ominous.

And inre how one could stand knowing that friends and loved ones were in hell:We will be so busy in heaven, and we'll be living in absolute paradise. There is also no sadness and no pain in heaven. I honestly don't think we'll be capable of remorse, or regret in heaven. So, basically, you'd have NO trouble enjoying heaven.
"So don't you feel much better now?" Really, Adam, this is by far one of the most naive, IMHO, things that I've seen from you. "I know that your sad because your mother didn't make the cut, but don't worry, be happy!"

Holly asked:Along that line, how could a loving god be content knowing his "children" are suffering?
Adam replied:Well, it's not His children who are suffering. Although God created every one of us, those who are not saved are not considered God's.
So your deity gets to create everyone, but doesn't have to accept those whom he feels are unworthy? Sounds like a politicians wet dream.

Hell is a place for the ungodly.
Well, and those whose beliefs are not in total lockstep with your own.

Seriously, Adam, do you actually believe that heaven will only be populated only by those who do now, and always have, believed exactly as you do? Who will you have a conversation with?

Waste
Flick Lives!

Waste -

I'm dreging up long-forgotten Sunday school lessons for this, but IIRC, the "White Throne Judgement" is when God and Jesus will sit on thrones and have a list of the "saved" in front of them. Everyone will be required to come before God and He will determine where they go.

As for people suffering, Adam sez:
Well, it's not His children who are suffering. Although God created every one of us, those who are not saved are not considered God's.
So wait. (And I know this has been asked before, folks, but I'm a-trying again.) What about babies who died before baptism? And people who were born before Jesus? And people who are unable to recognize ANY religion due to handicaps? Will your God send them to hell through no fault of their own? And yes, it is your God here. I refuse to worship a God who would do that to innocent people.

Also, this gives me a chance to ask Adam something I've been wondering for a while, even thought I know I'm going to regret this. Adam, do you think Revelations is a LITERAL account of what will happen? The four horsemen coming, the dragons in the sky, etc. Personally, I've always thought John was high on something when he wrote it, but do you actually take it seriously?

Everybody in a long line waiting to get to one Great White Throne? That ain't hell, it's the ladies' room at intermission!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How would it be possible to enjoy heaven, knowing your loved ones (or
even non-loved ones) were being tortured?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We will be so busy in heaven, and we'll be living in absolute paradise. There is also no sadness and no pain in heaven. I honestly don't think we'll be capable of remorse, or regret in heaven. So basically, you'd have NO trouble enjoying heaven.

I wanted to make sure everyone got a chance to see this again. It illustrates better than anything else what a sick, twisted theology this individual believes in.

Just a short addition based on comments earlier in the thread:

I think the ideas of playing harps on clouds and cherubim looking like babies is a case of artistic license by painters etc. I don't believe the Bible represents heaven or angels in this manner. I might be wrong.

I believe what the Bible says about hell but Dante's version seems pretty just in its punishments.

Okay - continue your debate. I'm outta here.

You mean you have to live in a gated community when you die?

No. Maybe you didn't read how big the New Jerusalem is. It's 1,400 miles in width, and length. This is just a wild guess, but I'll bet that's around the size of all the U.S. west of the Mississippi. (not including AK) So, it's a little bigger than "a gated community."
what are you referring to with the "Great White Throne judgement"? It
sounds a bit ominous.
The GWT judgement is found in Revelation chapter 20.
11. "Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it...
12. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened which is the Book of Life. The dead are judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books...
15. If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Revelation 20: 11,12,15
Seriously, Adam, do you actually believe that heaven will only be
populated only by those who do now, and always have, believed exactly as
you do? Who will you have a conversation with?
No. I've gone over this many times before. Actually, I've gone over it TOO many times. Heaven will be populated by those who've been saved. And I've already given all of you countless verses on what being saved means, and how to become saved.

Now, some of you have mocked my response to Holly. So, I'll try again. While refering to God's people in heaven, Revelation 21:4 says, "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

Isaiah tells even more about the New Heaven, and New Earth (i.e. heaven as we all know it).
"Behold, I will create a new heaven, and a new earth. the former things will not be remembered, now will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight, and it's people a joy." Isaiah 65:17-18

Is that response better for you guys? You won't be sad that you're Mom's in hell, because, you will be INCAPABLE of feeling sadness, and pain. What other way can I explain it?

Falcon asked:Adam, do you think Revelations is a LITERAL account of what will happen?
Well Falcon, that's a really good question, and I'm glad you asked. I've head so many "interpretations" of Revelation that it's not even funny. MY personal belief is that all of the prophecies will come to pass. Nearly the entire book of Revelation is a vision of the apostle John.

Let me give you a quick example of what I've heard about this book. In chapter 9, verse 3 it says, "And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth, and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth." The it goes on to describe the locusts. It says their "faces resembled human faces." They had "breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle."

Now, I've heard that the "locusts" were actually Apache attack helicopters, and the "sting" that they gave was really missiles fired at people. So, whether they are really bugs, or choppers, I have this to say:

"I warn anyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book." Rev. 22:18

In other words, read the book, but don't make up fanciful stories about it.

Adam

Bunnygirl says:I think the ideas of playing harps on clouds and cherubim looking like
babies is a case of artistic license by painters etc. I don't believe
the Bible represents heaven or angels in this manner. I might be wrong.

You're absolutely right Bunny. The Bible does mention angels and music. But angels are powerful beings. Cherubs are described in Ezekiel chapter 1. I'd rather not quote the whole chapter, but to parphrase, the cherubs flash with light, and speed like lighting. They have many wings, and four faces, and they looked like glowing fire.

Basically, they aren't three feet tall, and they don't have chubby little bodies.

Adam

An angel will check to see if individuals have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Just what I want to see at the pearly gates: an angel acting like a snotty waiter. That would be Pooch, p-o-o-c-h, I've made several reservations during times of dire straits. Hhhmpf...nyet, I'm afraid you will have to go to hell and be tortured for eternity. Next! It's Ghandi...g-h-a-n-d-i. Sorry, two non-believers to beam down!! Next! Dahlmer, Jeffery. Ohhhh, Jeffery!! Seems like you repented just in time, entre! entre!

You won't be sad that you're Mom's in hell, because, you will be INCAPABLE of feeling sadness, and pain. What other way can I explain it? -- Adam

Sounds ghastly. What is your god running? Lobotomies R Us? You're making Hell look better and better, Adam.


------------------
Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity

Jill,

It would be something like this (on meeting the Kennedy's in Heaven):

You: John, Robert!!!! Nice to see you here!! Wow!! Looks like the whole clan made it!!
John: We are good Catholics!! Are you alone?
You: (cheerfully) Yes!! My father was a drunk and killed himself!! My mother lost her faith after that (big smiles all around)!!!
Robert: Well, look what the cat dragged in!!! Jon-jon, where's the Mrs?
Jon-jon: She was rather ticked off that I was flying at all. Took the lords name in vain the entire way down.
Rose: Do you think Ted will make it?
Everybody: (cheerfully) Who cares!!!
You: Golly, considering I've lost the capacity to feel sadness for my parents eternal torture, I am happy. (smiles and waves to parents in hell).

Adam: how can you make that declaration above about the Book of Mormon? Especially after you've said you've never read it and never will. Therefore, you don't personally know what it does and doesn't say. Heck, you've already proven you don't know to which tome you refer (see above where I mention in which volume the Book of Abraham is to be found). You say it contradicts the Bible? Point being? The Bible contradicts itself, you know.

Maybe, after all, you don't know.

Hey Arg, how about a cite from the Bible, saying that humans will be
invincible, nonphysical beings?
"So it will be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body." 1 Corinthians 15:42-44

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. for the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality." 1 Cor. 15:51-54

IIRC, Revelation talks about the city of God in terms as though it were
an actual, physical city. It even gives measurements of its size--
144,000 cubits square is the number that comes to mind, but I'm not sure
whether that's correct.

The New Jerusalem is what you're thinking of Auraseer. It is the main city of heaven, and will be enormous. It's a walled city, with twelve gates, representing the Twelve Tribes of Israel. It's laid out like a square, and it's 12,000 stadia in length, width, and highth. That's about 1,400 miles! And the wall is 200 feet thick. (All info taken from Revelation chapter 21)

Holly asked: will the occupants of heaven have knowledge of the suffering of those
in hell?
Yes, I believe so. There is a judgement in heaven called the Great White Throne judgement. Everybody who has ever lived will be present. An angel will check to see if individuals have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life. If their names are not written, then they will be cast into hell. Now most scholars believe that Christians will not have to endure this test, since salvation means you're name is written down. However, it is logical, that Christians will be witness to the GWT judgement, and therefore know who goes to hell, and who doesn't.
How would it be possible to enjoy heaven, knowing your loved ones (or
even non-loved ones) were being tortured?
We will be so busy in heaven, and we'll be living in absolute paradise. There is also no sadness and no pain in heaven. I honestly don't think we'll be capable of remorse, or regret in heaven. So basically, you'd have NO trouble enjoying heaven.
Along that line, how could a loving god be content knowing his
"children" are suffering?
Well, it's not His children who are suffering. Although God created every one of us, those who are not saved are not considered God's. Hell is a place for the ungodly. They are being punished there.

Adam

To Monty (no kin): In reference to the Book of Mormon, if you know it well, compare some verses (particularly in 2 and 3 Nephi) to Matthew and Malachi. Case in point: In modern Jewish Scripture translations, the book of Malachi, while it contains the same text that appears in Christian Bibles, is divided into three chapters, not four. Before the invention of printing, in medieval times, there were no chapter or verse divisions, let alone even spaces between words; though the ninth-century Masoretic Text did add verse divisions for convenience. However, 3 Nephi, allegedly much older than Malachi (about 4th Century B.C.), DOES make the division between third and fourth chapters in Malachi--in the same place as the King James Version does in Malachi. I also find it interesting that, although the "Old Testament" is attested to by over 1,700 ancient texts, complete or not, and the "New Testament" is supported by over ten thousand complete or partial texts, NO such textual support is available for the Book of Mormon, certainly insofar as access to such text by non-Mormon scholars is concerned. To me this is like hiding your light under a bushel-basket.

Adam: The gated community reference was a joke. I assumed that you would realize that. Obviously, I should have given more thought to whom I was directing it toward.

Inre the GWT: Okay, fair enough. I just get a little antsy when I see or hear folk making any reference using the terms, "Great" & "White" at the same time.

Then there is this:No. I've gone over this many times before. Actually, I've gone over it TOO many times. Heaven will be populated by those who've been saved. And I've already given all of you countless verses on what being saved means, and how to become saved.
Or, to put it another way, Only by those who feel as you do. As a matter of fact, I believe I already referred to it just like that.

Now, some of you have mocked my response to Holly.
Well, yeah, because we have a hard time imagining anyone being happy about losing their ability to think or reason. Particularly about the welfare of our loved ones.

Is that response better for you guys? You won't be sad that you're Mom's in hell, because, you will be INCAPABLE of feeling sadness, and pain. What other way can I explain it?
Actually, I think it might be best if you didn't try to explain it anymore. It sounds horrible.

Waste
Flick Lives!

GLWasteful: "I just get a little antsy when I see or hear folk making any reference using the terms, "Great" & "White" at the same time."
Until just now I thought you must be from Australia and you were referring to sharks. Boy, am I a moron! :)

GL:


[quote]Obviously, I should have given more thought to whom I was
directing it toward.[/quote}

how about:

"Obviously I should have given more thought to whom I was directing it."

Better still:

"Obviously I should have given more thought to whom I was speaking"

------------------
Stoidela

******Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!******

Dougie, Dougie, Dougie...where to begin?

Oh, well, I'll just leave it at this: What my last posting above was addressing was obviously Adam's narrowminded view of his way being the right way. Why you feel the need to switch the conversation from that to a textual analysis of the BoM is beyond me. It's veracity or lack thereof has absolutely nothing to do with my addressing Adam's "speaking of God what [he] know[s] not." And FYI, that last bit within quotes just now is from the Koran, a tome which I personally believe is pure fiction; however, there is a lot of good advice in it. You and Adam should get together sometime and find out exactly what that advice is.

silly, silly beings of this small planet.
you cant think beond your narrow minded field of vision, let alone create the god within you. tell me really, what happened first: god made men in his liking, or the men invented god in their liking(you know what im talking about). if god made us in his liking all aliens must be godless, except of course they look exacly like us.
how come there are so many religions on this tiny planet alone? because they are as many as the people is different from each other.
when you die you will be living in the heaven of your own making. considering that, why wait? because we cant make heaven on earth? because we cant both make heaven and hell on earth? because we cant make hell on earth?
the word hell symbols a place where you dont want to be! no matter what!
the word heaven symbols the place where you want to be! no matter what! < because heaven will be as you want it to be, thats your heaven, nobody can make it for you. not even god, why? because you made god, you belived in the entity god, therefore he exists.

---------------------------------------------

god is a figment of you imagination, therefore you made god, therefore you are god.

just call me bj0rn

Stoidela, inre my mangled syntax:how about:

"Obviously I should have given more thought to whom I was directing it."

Better still:

"Obviously I should have given more thought to whom I was speaking"

Damn, I just noticed that. A thousand pardons.

Waste
Flick Lives!

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Fine with me, Monty. I accept the Bible as the word of God, but not the Koran or the Book of Mormon: the three are, so far as I can perceive, mutually exclusive. Granted others whopost messages here won't necessarily agree, but I stand by it. ;)

Hey, how did this happen??? I only posted this question once! Has the dreaded Y2K bug arrived 4 months early??!?

If you consider the advice given in all three of the tomes you've mentioned (in your multiply-posted posting) to be mutually exclusive, then you, sir, are the worst kind of fool--that being the kind who delights in his ignorance.

PS Succubi = gorgeous; cherubim = underage.

Actually i hear Cherubim are quite fierce angels, and not those cute little babies with petit wings people think they are. I also hear they're at the top of the angelic hierarchy or something :).

An interesting concept I heard a couple of years ago regarding Heaven and what if your ex-wife/hubby/boss/antagonist were there? It certianly wouldn't be paradise knowing that this person who rubbed you the wrong way were sharing eternity with you. And just because they were a prick to you doesn't disqualify them for wings and harp duty.

Then a caller called up and said that her religion ( I think it was Episcopalian (sp?) said that they learned when you die because there was no pain or suffering in Heaven, you essentially lose your earth memories upon entering the Pearly Gates.

Lemme take this discussion a little bit farther. What if a guy was raised from a young age to be a hit man. Came from a family of hit men, grew up to be one and was a very good one. Now, society and moral laws say that is wrong, but this guy never felt any remorse on his actions and did his job well. Because he does not believe what he does for a living to be wrong, would not he be allowed into heaven? Isn't hell for those who realize their actions are wrong?

This is disturbing!!! I meant to post that item once, not a dozen times or so! This must have been an accident---that I accidentally pushed a key causing my message to be posted over and over several times!
To the moderator: Is there any way to be all of the copies of my message deleted except for one?
To the Teeming Millions who saw my message here posted over and over like that: I'M SORRY!!!!
To Monty: I can do without your name-calling here, Sir. What I did was an accident. what YOU did is adding insult to injury!! :(

No, Dougie; what I did was point out a fact. That fact being your explicit admission that you have dismissed out of hand something because of your preconceived opinion of its source. Grab a dictionary and look up the word "fact." For extra credit, peruse in the same dictionary its entries for "prejudice" and "ignorance."

{{To the moderator: Is there any way to be all of the copies of my message deleted except for one?}}

Yep, there is a way. However, it seems that this is a board problem, and the tech guys need to look at it to determine what happened. If I delete the posts, then there's no record of them. I've sent a letter to the tech folks, and maybe we'll get an answer to the problem. Then I can and will remove the extra posts, if this thread is still active.

I apologize to everyone about not deleting the extra posts, but I want the techs to look at the problem NOW, and maybe prevent it in the future.

Lynn/SDStaff Lynn
For the Straight Dope

ARG220 wrote:
You won't be sad that you're Mom's in hell, because, you will be INCAPABLE of feeling sadness, and pain. What other way can I explain it?

Oh, now I see. Your deity will give you a permanent cocaine high, therefore you won't care about anything bad.

If that's the case, why would he bother making heaven into the paradise that you envision? Even if it was one huge lake of boiling lead, and the "saved" people were cast into it, they'd still be happy. So who cares what it looks like?

Aura:

LOL. Excellent point! Go to heaven and get stoned for eternity!

------------------
*************
I used to worry about Newt. Then I started worrying about the fact that the sun stopped producing neutrinos in the early '80s, indicating that its internal fusion process had stopped. But that was too scary, so now I worry about fashion.

ARG220 wrote:

You won't be sad that you're Mom's in hell, because, you will be INCAPABLE of feeling sadness, and pain. What other way can I explain it?

Explain, please, how the deity who is in heaven can experience sadness and sorrow, then. Or don't you recall that little bit of the Bible?

Monty: As I already explained to Snarkberry, we are not God. And contrary to Mormon beliefs, we are not ever going to be little gods either. There is not one passage in the Bible that says this. There are verses that say we are joint heirs with Jesus, and that we're His bride, or that we are called the sons of God, but NOT that we are little gods.

Adam

Arg:

Wow, that was a total non-answer! Monty asks you a question, you attack his faith.

Fascinating.



------------------
*************
I used to worry about Newt. Then I started worrying about the fact that the sun stopped producing neutrinos in the early '80s, indicating that its internal fusion process had stopped. But that was too scary, so now I worry about fashion.

Boy, you guys haven't read any of the Chick tracts yet, have you? They'll CONVINCE you that hell is a very warm place indeed.

I HAVE read quite a few of the Chick tracts; even one in Spanish whose English edition I never saw. But all I get from them is the familiar "hellfire" doctrine the Protestant churches, and others, have held to for centuries.
Now, Monty I will attempt to address your point objectively, now that I feel less embarrassed about that one posting appearing so many times.
As I have been able to perceive, the Koran says that Muhammad was given a dispensation as God's seventh prophet, the others, I believe, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Solomon and Jesus. The Koran, however, says God has no son, but, of course, in the New Testament Jesus is called the Son of God (Luke 3:38, for example). As for the Book of Mormon, I posted a message here, admittedly sketchy, concerning similarities--verbatim passages--between one of the Books of Mormon and the Bible (Malachi). I apologize for not bringing this information to the Message Board earlier, but here it is: 3 Nephi 24 and 25 match Malachi 3 and 4. I have, of course, my own copy of the Book of Mormon, as well as several editions of the Bible and, Strong's Concordance, likely one of the most thorough Bible reference works ever. I also have "Pearl of Great Price"; in its "Articles of Faith," No. 8, it says: "We accept the Bible as the word of God so far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the 'Book of Mormon' to be the Word of God."
I brought this up because, unlike the Bible, for which ancient texts and versions abound, there is (can you contradict this?)no equivalent equivalent textual support for the Book of Mormon.

Oops, sorry--"equivalent" appears twice. And I thank the moderator for acknowledging my question. :)

Sure, Dougie, I'll address what you just posted above. What you've discussed is the geography of the Bible, plenty of fictional works contain references to Jerusalem, Rome, Nazareth, and a few other places too. However, what I mentioned was the -- stay with me here -- advice on living contained in all three texts. I'd have thought that was self-evident what with my posting that I considered the Koran to be pure fiction but still a valuable tome.

Next, as to God having a son: the Jewish Bible -- you know, the Pentateuch -- explicitly states in the section commonly referred to as the Ten Commandments that God is solitary. Now why do you suppose the Jews of Jesus' time got so bent out of shape when he was called the son of God?

Now your first posting above about the Book of Mormon's divisions actually touched on one of my favourite subjects, and one which I'm happy to discuss with anyone: Versification.

For the uninitiated, Versification is the practice of dividing what's considered to be Holy Writ by whatever religion into books, chapters, and verses. The Roman Catholic and Protestant versions of the Bible have some differences, and the varying translations into other languages versify the Bible differently than any of the English translations.

Another intersting thing to me is that the LDS and RLDS churches versify both the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants differently. I find the RLDS versification of the D&C to be the most logical I've encountered: the paragraphs are numbers and the sentences within the paragraphs are lettered, just like a subparagraph should be.

I've encountered folks who think the verse divisions themselves are ordained by God. This also is a "hot topic" for some of the fundies.

To monty: I guess this is the crux of the matter. Your point seems to be: by dint of the First Commandment, the concept of "Son of God" is not acceptable, or rather, the two ideas are mutually exclusive. Well, I don't agree.
You may want to see where it says in the Koran (the Ali translation, anyway, and right now I don't have the citation): "O Jesus son of Mary! Didst thou say, 'Worship me and my mother as god in derogation of God'? And Jesus will say, 'Glory to thee! Never could I say (what I had no right to say).'"
So I disagree with you here, that "Son of God" conflicts with the First Commandment; you may want to compare this with the eighth chapter of Proverbs; Psalm 82:6; and the passage from Daniel where a FOURTH person was seen in the fiery furnace. Jesus even alluded to Psalm 82:6, after he riled the Jews by saying, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).