Coulter at it again. My apologies to our Canadian friends.

[Reeder]

COULTER: They better hope the United States doesn't roll over one night and crush them. They are lucky we allow them to exist on the same continent.

[...]

COULTER: We could have taken them [Canada] over so easily.

[ALAN] COLMES: We could have taken them over? Is that what you want?

COULTER: Yes, but no. All I want is the western portion, the ski areas, the cowboys, and the right-wingers.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200412010011

It's sad. She would be funny if she had any humor about her.

Let's hope her idiotic mindset is not par for the course in the repug party.

[vibrotronica]

Don't apologize for that dried-up cuntsack. She's not speaking for us.

[Gorsnak]

The west, huh? I take it she doesn't know about prairie socialism?

[danceswithcats]

Numerous other dopers have called for an end to party-based insults. Have you some reason for perpetuating it on this board?

[Bricker]

Let's hope her idiotic mindset is not par for the course in the repug party.


"That is just the kind of thing I was hoping not to hear from the Dumb-o-crats."

Pretty foolish commentary, done from either side, isn't it?

[Reeder]

Numerous other dopers have called for an end to party-based insults. Have you some reason for perpetuating it on this board?

Because I despise them?

Just to be clear..if Coulter were a left wing nutjob advocating the same thing, I'd despise them too.

[Reeder]

"That is just the kind of thing I was hoping not to hear from the Dumb-o-crats."

Pretty foolish commentary, done from either side, isn't it?

I'm not a democrat or haven't you followed my posting history?

Of course blasting the messenger takes the spotlight off of the repug party doesn't it?

[Reeder]

Pretty foolish commentary, done from either side, isn't it?

But it didn't come from either side did it?

It just came from yours.

[Malodorous]

We could have taken them [Canada] over so easily

We tried. Twice. Both times were a failure. Course it's been a while.

[John Mace]

We may all think Coulter is dumb as a brick, but she sells a lot of books, and nothing sells better than controversy. Apologizing for her gives her too much recognition if you ask me. She says these things on purpose just to stir up the pot. Were she a poster here, she'd be banned as a troll. If not on posting style, on looks alone!!

[World Eater]

Man what a fucking rag.

I wonder what type of idiot buys into her bullshit.

[Raygun99]

Worse than Coulter, in my opinion, since she's just a bag of raving loony, are Tucker Carlson's comments, who should know better. Talk about your basic lack of grasp of the facts.


CARLSON: I think if Canada were responsible for its own security -- you would be invaded by Norway if it weren't for the United States.

Yes, the great Norwegian menace. You're welcome for inventing peacekeeping and carrying the bulk of the load of that for long time, by the way. Canada has its military issues of late, but they're entirely of Chretien's making and hopefully shall be rectified soon with the budget crisis over. We routinely kick your ass in war games too, so watch yourselves.

CARLSON: [A]bsolutely the countries will remain allies and there will always be politicians who see it to their benefit to stomp on Bush dolls [referring to action taken by Parrish]. But no, I don't think the average Canadian feels -- the average Canadian is busy dogsledding.

PARRISH: No, there's not a lot of dogsledding. There's a lot of dog walking, my friend. Not a lot of dogsledding.

CARLSON: Welcome to our century.

Ah yes. We're all Nanooks of the North up here but we've even got running water now. What does that last comment even mean?

CARLSON: I'm surprised there was anybody left in Canada to attend the protests. I noticed that most sort of vigorous, ambitious Canadians, at least almost all comedians in Canada, come to the United States in the end. Doesn't that tell you something about the sort of limpid, flaccid nature of Canadian society, that people with ambition come here? What does that tell you about Canada?

Because if you don't see them, they don't exist. Of course. No entertainers, no businessmen, no inventors at all up here. The country's just a wasteland filled with national park staff and hockey players. There are no Aspers, McCains, Irvings, Zildjians, Hollingers... uh, wait.

And you mean it's shocking that a comedian would be able to get more acclaim by going to the market with 10 times the population? That's a shock. Just a ridiculous display of ignorance.

[mhendo]

"That is just the kind of thing I was hoping not to hear from the Dumb-o-crats."

Pretty foolish commentary, done from either side, isn't it?It sure is. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=288115)

[danceswithcats]

Because I despise them?

Just to be clear..if Coulter were a left wing nutjob advocating the same thing, I'd despise them too.

Have you ever considered that broad brushing groups and despising them based upon party affiliations may cause you to run afoul of many people with whom you might find something in common, were you not so busy hating them in advance of learning their thoughts?

[neuroman]

So Coulter's a Canada bashing idiot. And how does that imply she speaks for the "repugs?" Because that's how she self-identifies? Ok, if you say so, Reeder.

:rolleyes:

[pantom]

I just need to point out that Carlson's grasp of the English language is as firm as his grasp on reality: limpid (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=limpid) doesn't mean what he so obviously, and stupidly, thinks it does.
Not just an ass, an illiterate ass.

[andros]

Have you ever considered that broad brushing groups and despising them based upon party affiliations may cause you to run afoul of many people with whom you might find something in common, were you not so busy hating them in advance of learning their thoughts?

No, he hasn't. And there is no indication that he ever will.

[Orbifold]

COULTER: There is also something called, when you're allowed to exist on the same continent of the United States of America, protecting you with a nuclear shield around you, you're polite and you support us when we've been attacked on our own soil. They [Canada] violated that protocol.

Just a reminder to the Americans who, unlike Coulter, aren't offensive demogogue bitches: when America was attacked on 9/11, we (Canada) did support you. We accepted your diverted air traffic, we sent troops to Afghanistan, and we stood shoulder to shoulder with you along with other western nations against the atrocities committed by Al Qaeda.

In return we lost four soldiers to a bomb dropped by a National Guard pilot on uppers and Canadians citizens of Muslim and Arab descent have been harassed and in some cases deported to countries which practice torture by American immigration officials.

So I hope you will all understand if this particular Canadian doesn't beg Ann Coulter for forgiveness for the crimes that exist in her fevered imagination.

[Kythereia]

I imagine the majority of Canadians have either never heard of her or learned to tune her out a loooong time ago.

Also, Orbifold said pretty much what I want to say.

[Ike Witt]

As a Canadian that is from the area that Ms. Coulter wants in the USA (Calgary), I can tell you that there are some people there who wouldn't mind becoming part of the US. There is probably a greater number of people, however, who think Bush is an idiot and wouldn't want him as their leader. I am basing this just on the people that I know.

[Reeder]

I will apologize to the repug party just as soon as they distance themselves from Coulter.

Two chance of that happening.

Fat and slim.

[Evil Captor]

Man what a fucking rag.

I wonder what type of idiot buys into her bullshit.

There's a thread called "Conservatives: name your favorite columnists." A couple have named Coulter, without any "just for laughs" kinda reservations. So, check out that thread if you want to know.

[Squink]

Let's hope her idiotic mindset is not par for the course in the repug party.Hey they finally managed to elect America's first "torture president"; credit where credit is due.

[Brutus]

I will apologize to the repug party just as soon as they distance themselves from Coulter.

Why apologize? She does a beautiful job of pissing off you moore-ons and dumbocrats. You guys are like little yapping chihuahuas: The madder you get, the funnier you are. Besides, she is positively angelic compared to the miscreants that you guys drool over.

[Typo Negative]

Numerous other dopers have called for an end to party-based insults. Yeah. I don't think it's going that well......

[Reeder]

Why apologize? She does a beautiful job of pissing off you moore-ons and dumbocrats. You guys are like little yapping chihuahuas: The madder you get, the funnier you are. Besides, she is positively angelic compared to the miscreants that you guys drool over.

You know who I drool over?

Just how do you know this?

As for repugs and Coulter? Brutus is proof positive.

[Muffin]

Yes, the great Norwegian menace. You're welcome for inventing peacekeeping and carrying the bulk of the load of that for long time, by the way. Canada has its military issues of late, but they're entirely of Chretien's making and hopefully shall be rectified soon with the budget crisis over. We routinely kick your ass in war games too, so watch yourselves.The Norwegian's invaded in 1996 at the World Telemark Championships in Whistler. It is not just that they won, but that they won by such a great margin. (Of course Canada still beat the USA.)

We're all Nanooks of the North up here but we've even got running water now.Nanook's Nyla was a hottie. And Canada is still toppers for documentaries.

[tiny ham]

I've long ago tuned out both REEDER and ANN COULTER, but this just re-upped my ire for Coulter and Mr. Carlson. Their amazing ignorance, xenophobia and arrogance just makes me sick that they were chosen as a 'mouthpiece' for how Americans feel.

blech.

I've spent many thousands of dollars in Canada. I love that friggin place.

[Loopydude]

What the hell is the matter with them? What is it that Canada has done to draw these miscreants' ire, aside from existing?

Why do these pustules get air time? There was absolutely zero of substantive value in their commentary, once you excise cheap jingoism and French jokes (which must be getting a tad stale now, even among Republicans). Why do these fools even rank as pundits? What do they do besides shit where they eat?

[Harborwolf]

What the hell is the matter with them? What is it that Canada has done to draw these miscreants' ire, aside from existing?

Why do these pustules get air time? There was absolutely zero of substantive value in their commentary, once you excise cheap jingoism and French jokes (which must be getting a tad stale now, even among Republicans). Why do these fools even rank as pundits? What do they do besides shit where they eat?


Draw ratings. Sell books. Make money. Get attention. Some people even take them seriously. They're utter shit, but they're rich too.

To them, that's really all that matters.

By the by, "moore-ons" and "repugs?" Are we nine year olds here? I'd expect a higher grade of insults on this board. :p

[Larry Mudd]

COULTER: There is also something called, when you're allowed to exist on the same continent of the United States of America, protecting you with a nuclear shield around you, you're polite and you support us when we've been attacked on our own soil. They [Canada] violated that protocol.Particularly moronic since we still have troops in Afghanistan.

What the fuck is that about? We violated the Coulter Protocol how? I didn't realize that "being polite" when your allies are attacked meant that in addition to sending troops to help deal with the attackers, you also have to tag along on a totally unrelated and astonishingly ill-advised invasions of third parties.

If she comes 'round here I'm going to wash her face in the snow.

[FinnAgain]

Coulter and Carlson?
Not a big surprise.
Like the Devil's Dictionary put it, war is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
They're both hacks.
Coulter is vile and venomous and I would find it very amusing if her hair was to catch fire the next time she's on Real Time.
Just an amusing little thought.
Why is it the thought of Coulter running around beating at her own head to put out a column of flames make me giggle, a lot?

Now...
Reeder: Holding an entire group responsible for the behavior of one member is tribalism at its worst. We're past that point in our evolution, and it's time we started acting like it.
Don't condemn Republicans (as differentiated from the Republican leadership) for not shunning her, it's not their job. Hell, don't even condemn the Republican leadership unless they've actually done anything wrong.
Last time I checked neither party maintains an official list of Those Commentators Who Do Not Speak For Us .
See, when you start thinking fungibly you say outlandishly silly things like

As for repugs and Coulter? Brutus is proof positive.
Brutus is one man. One. Singular. One.
Tell me how one man becomes proof positive for the entire Republican party, plus those who vote Republican, plus those who are sympathetic to Republican idea, plus those...

Come on man, that's just unbridled ridiculousness, much as this is

Why apologize? She does a beautiful job of pissing off you moore-ons and dumbocrats. You guys are like little yapping chihuahuas: The madder you get, the funnier you are. Besides, she is positively angelic compared to the miscreants that you guys drool over.

First off, as an American, shouldn't it infuriate you that Coulter called an entire half of your countrymen traitors for holding their beliefs?
Ya know, if you care about truth, honor, dignity, and not just partisan sniping.

And, like mah kindergarten teacher always said, two wrong, they aint makin a right.

Who exactly is this 'you' that you're talking about? A bunch of Demo, or, Dumbo, er, Dumb-o-crats get together around an old tombstone and fellate Michale Moore while the Dixie Chicks invoke Satan?

Yeeeesh.

Both of you two are on a time out, go sit in the corner.


(By the way, if I join the Dumbocrat party, can I fly too? Because, man, any party led by a flying elephant has got my vote.)

[duffer]

Two chance of that happening.

Fat and slim.

Can you please come up with a new tag-line? This is so fucking tired. As far as "repugs", stay with it. The longer you do, the more it shows us how little originality you have in your blind hatred.

I think instead of Dummycrats, I'll just start using the phrase, Reedercrats. Seems more fitting.

Oh, and Reeder, you're not a Reedercrat, huh? If anyone can show me where at least 5% of your rants are directed against anyone other than the GOP, I'll try to wrap my head around it. Otherwise you're an insencere blowhard with little more to say than what happens to piss you off at any given hour.

[Biggirl]

(By the way, if I join the Dumbocrat party, can I fly too? Because, man, any party led by a flying elephant has got my vote.)

That would be the Republicans for Legalization. Or maybe the Libertarians.

[duffer]

And since I'm currently owned by two Pugs I'd like to thank you, Reeder, for associating the GOP with such a lovable, loyal, friendly and sweet breed as the Pug! (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.joepage.com.hk/pugs/allbaby2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.joepage.com.hk/pugs/al2p3.htm&h=545&w=800&sz=86&tbnid=I8mbLtIvE7AJ:&tbnh=96&tbnw=140&start=16&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpugs%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG) :)

[FinnAgain]

And since I'm currently owned by two Pugs I'd like to thank you, Reeder, for associating the GOP with such a lovable, loyal, friendly and sweet breed as the Pug! (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.joepage.com.hk/pugs/allbaby2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.joepage.com.hk/pugs/al2p3.htm&h=545&w=800&sz=86&tbnid=I8mbLtIvE7AJ:&tbnh=96&tbnw=140&start=16&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpugs%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG) :)

Is a re-pug anything like a FinnAgain?
Just curious...

[elucidator]

Gotta wonder when Darwinism is going to take effect on the Malthusian overload of conservative pundits. They're all over the fucking place! If you qualify as a "wonk", get together with your friends, both, if they are amenable.

Take a shot of tequila for every conservative who has had national exposure in the past month. Hannity, Limbaugh, "Anne of Green Goebbels" Coulter, Mike Savage.... Take a huge bong hit for every liberal....Franken, Shields, Begala, the pencil-neck dweeb on Hannity and His Bitch....

You ain't gonna be sitting around saying profoundly silly things about metaphysics. You're gonna be in an ambulance.

[vivalostwages]

Man what a fucking rag.

I wonder what type of idiot buys into her bullshit.

An idiot with whom I went to college but has become such a raving loon that I told him to quit bothering me with all his crap and then I blocked his email for good measure.
He used to forward stuff like this to me and all his contacts in the summer and even write his own diatribes, to the point that I thought he was either insecure in his own position or that he really believed that everyone else in his address book was too stupid to make up their own minds without his constant barrage.
He loved Coulter.

[NDP]

...

It's sad. She would be funny if she had any humor about her.

Let's hope her idiotic mindset is not par for the course in the repug party.
I wish that was true about Coulter and that dweeby George Will-wannabe Tucker Carlson but open xenophobia deoes seem to be a part of the American right-wing mindset these days. Granted, Bush himself doesn't publicly advocate such policies. He'll take diplomatic "make nice" trips to Canada and Europe so he'll look like a "good American cop" rather than a "bad American cop" like Donald "Old Europe" Rumsfeld. However, within the Bush admininstration, among neo-con policy wonks, and the right-wing ranters in the media, a "Fuck you! We're America!" attitude and contempt toward anything "foreign" are disturbingly prevalent. Witness such recent books like this one (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400053153/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/104-6224860-0139114), this one (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1400053668/ref=pd_sbs_b_2/104-6224860-0139114?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance), this one (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060580100/ref=pd_sim_b_6/104-6224860-0139114?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance), and this one (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385512198/ref=pd_sim_b_4/104-6224860-0139114?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance). Or, for an even more relevent example, take a look at this National Review cover (http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1102/111802nationalreview.jpg) from 2003. Indeed, the problem with a clown like Coulter is she phrases these arguments so crudely and cartoonishly that nobody can really take her seriously. But that doesn't mean there aren't people in power (or people who influence people in power) who do hold such viewpoints.

I wonder when Bush finally leaves office whether we'll have any friends left in the world.

[AskNott]

I won't apologize to anybody for Coulter. She's not from this planet. She's just visiting this country. Hell, she even trashed Karl Rove. Who does she like?

[FinnAgain]

. Hell, she even trashed Karl Rove. Who does she like?

Bill Mahr, apparently.
Stranger than that, he likes her.
Strange days.

[FinnAgain]

Because I despise them?

Just to be clear..if Coulter were a left wing nutjob advocating the same thing, I'd despise them too.

Damnit I skipped over this.
I'm just blown away.
You despise them, honestly despise them?
That isn't just rhetoric?
If there was a person on the left who was also a wackjob, you'd despise people on the left too?
You do realize that is just about the most ridiculous, least logical, most hateful ideology anybody can hold?

[duffer]

If Reeder will allow an outside opinion first published in The Washington Post, I'd like to point anyone interested to think about an American in Toronto and her view on the two countries.

Of course, there's little Reeder can attack (even though he's not a Reedercrat) :rolleyes: She says in the article she's a dyed-in-the-wool "blue-statie".

If you haven't seen it yet, check here (http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/editorial/10326754.htm)

[elucidator]

...I wonder when Bush finally leaves office whether we'll have any friends left in the world.

Yes. Same as always. Remember just after 9/11? Candlelight vigils, people that didn't even like us very much. The thing about spewing so much media around the world, everybody knows what "OK" means, everybody has had a Coke. We remind everyone that if they had a chance, most of them would be Americans. This embarrasses them. For good reason.

But they always were our friends. They just thought we were incredibly, stupidly wrong. Friends don't let friends...

[John Mace]

As most of us have said, yes, Coutler is a numb-nut. But you know, Reeder, you are just a left wing Coutler. You and she are two sides of the same coin, using the same arguments from opposite angles.

[Reeder]

Damnit I skipped over this.
I'm just blown away.
You despise them, honestly despise them?
That isn't just rhetoric?
If there was a person on the left who was also a wackjob, you'd despise people on the left too?
You do realize that is just about the most ridiculous, least logical, most hateful ideology anybody can hold?

As long as they send the cream of our youth to die in a God forsaken illrgal war.

As long as they care more for the haves than the have nots.

As long as they care more for corporate interests than envioronmental interests.

As long as they practice bigotry in a persons sexual preference.

As long as they continue to run up deficits my grandchildren will have to pay.

I will continue to despise them.

[tiny ham]

just wondering, did you have a swelling, dramatic string score behind you while you typed that?

[Gorsnak]

If Reeder will allow an outside opinion first published in The Washington Post, I'd like to point anyone interested to think about an American in Toronto and her view on the two countries.

Of course, there's little Reeder can attack (even though he's not a Reedercrat) :rolleyes: She says in the article she's a dyed-in-the-wool "blue-statie".

If you haven't seen it yet, check here (http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/editorial/10326754.htm)
Meh. Her points are not entirely without merit, but she's vastly overstating her case. For example, she apparently believes that the reason people in Canada resist partial privatization of the health system is because it would make us more like the States, and this is part of the pervasive anti-Americanism here. But she's just flat out wrong. The reasons many Canadians oppose any privatization of the health system may be debateable, but they have nothing to do with anti-Americanism. She's either imagining it, or she's hypersensitive, or more likely both. This holds for a great number of the points she makes. You may want to take the entire column with a grain or two of salt.

[Malodorous]

As most of us have said, yes, Coutler is a numb-nut. But you know, Reeder, you are just a left wing Coutler. You and she are two sides of the same coin, using the same arguments from opposite angles.

'Course Reeder is very rarely invited on CNN.

[John Mace]

'Course Reeder is very rarely invited on CNN.

True, but he's a regular contributor on FOX... :)

[Raygun99]

As a Canadian that is from the area that Ms. Coulter wants in the USA (Calgary), I can tell you that there are some people there who wouldn't mind becoming part of the US. There is probably a greater number of people, however, who think Bush is an idiot and wouldn't want him as their leader. I am basing this just on the people that I know.

And, I'm sure she'd be surprised to know that, even in "Republican Canada", there are honest to goodness socialists elected to the legislature, and it was the province with the second highest support of the Green Party in the federal election. "America lite" it ain't.

[Miller]

It's sad. She would be funny if she had any humor about her.

In other words, she would be funny... if she were funny.

Just to be clear..if Coulter were a left wing nutjob advocating the same thing, I'd despise them too.

It's good to know that you're down on all the left wing nutjobs advocating uber-reactionary, borderline fascist policies. 'Course, if they did that, they wouldn't exactly be left-wing nutjobs, now, would they?

Please remember folks, Reeder speaks for the left to precisely the same degree that Coulter speaks for the right.

[duffer]

Please remember folks, Reeder speaks for the left to precisely the same degree that Coulter speaks for the right.

I try to remember this every time I read a post from Reeder, but sometimes he makes it damn difficult.

And Gorsnack, points taken. I posted that Op-Ed for the simple reason it's so rare to read anything in a major paper with that viewpoint. I'll order my next hot pretzel extra-salty.

[Evil Captor]

Please remember folks, Reeder speaks for the left to precisely the same degree that Coulter speaks for the right.

While I'm willing to concede that Coulter doesn't represent mainstream right wing thought to any great degree, it's patently obvious that a bestselling author with planty of TV forums to speak from DOES speak for a considerable portion of the right, whereas Reeder's influence, AFAIK, is pretty much limited to this message board and whatever others he may frequent. Not the same thing at all.

Sad to say, Coulter DOES speak for a considerable number of right-wing folks. If she didn't, her books wouldn't sell.

[FinnAgain]

Sad to say, Coulter DOES speak for a considerable number of right-wing folks. If she didn't, her books wouldn't sell.

Maybe it's accurate to say she sells to, rather than speaks for, a considerable number of right-wing folks?
I've bought a good few authors over the years, and although I dig him, I wouldn't say they spoke for me. Ya know?

[Evil Captor]

Maybe it's accurate to say she sells to, rather than speaks for, a considerable number of right-wing folks?
I've bought a good few authors over the years, and although I dig him, I wouldn't say they spoke for me. Ya know?

That's why I didn't say she spoke for the bulk of right-wingers in general. If I believed that she spoke for everyone who bought her books, I WOULD say she speaks for the right wing in general.

[Savannah]

How seriously is Coulter taken? Everything I've ever read about her or from her has been that kind of blatantly inflammatory (and often simply inaccurate) statements. I don’t think she does conservative thinking any favour because she certainly doesn’t persuade me that her political philosophy is reasonable and that I should consider it.

I thought the idea of political discourse was to convince people of your reasoning. All she does is make me wonder if she’s unbalanced.

And I’m in western Canada, BC in fact. We’re pretty liberal here, whether she realises it or not. Gay marriage and all that stuff. Again, she’s simply mistaken.

I do think an intelligent argument would be more valuable in the great left versus right debate, but it seems like no one has the time for reason any more. It’s like The Jerry Springer Show of politics.
ELLIS HENICAN [Newsday columnist]: We share a lot of culture and a lot of interests. Why do we want to have to ridicule them and be deeply offended if they disagree with us?
COULTER: Because they speak French.
The woman is simply stupid, and juvenile as well. If she’s not stupid, then I’m honestly perplexed by the nonsensical things she says.

[duffer]

That's why I didn't say she spoke for the bulk of right-wingers in general. If I believed that she spoke for everyone who bought her books, I WOULD say she speaks for the right wing in general.

The first mistake you're making is lumping all conservatives into the "right wing". If you meant she doesn't speak for all conservatives, than you must call anyone left-of-center a "left winger". Not very important to the survival of the species, but saying anyone that doesn't hold your world-view is an extremist is counter-productive and often disingenuous (sp?).

[Polycarp]

I can respect an intelligent conservative who expresses his views, however repugnant they are to me, coherently and with respect for his opponents and their rights to hold different views than him. There are many such people.

Then there's Ann Coulter. Under the First and Fourteenth Amendments, she has the right to say what she thinks, or what will get her attention (which I suspect is her intent), free from government control.

Of course, if all the decent American citizens, conservative, liberal, or moderate, were to say, "We will not watch networks which carry her, we will not buy publications which print her, we will not buy any books published by companies which publish her, and we will not patronize companies which choose to advertize in/on media which carry her, then perhaps her libelous vitriol could be silenced by the most effective means -- a boycott. I have personally ceased communication with several people who decided to agree in writing with her Treason book on other message boards -- on the grounds that they made an unsupported and highly offensive insult to me personally in doing so. And I would love to see a class-action libel suit against her and the media that carry her in behalf of several million loyal American citizens.

In behalf of American citizens, I offer a sincere apologies to our Canadian neighbors and usually friends for the fact that our freedoms permit her to insult you in this manner.

[Reeder]

Left wing..right wing.

Just remember, the eagle can't fly with just one wing.

[duffer]

Polycarp, you seem to understand how conservatives feel about Michael Moore.

[John Mace]

In behalf of American citizens, I offer a sincere apologies to our Canadian neighbors and usually friends for the fact that our freedoms permit her to insult you in this manner.

Why would you apologize that our freedoms permit certain activities? You might explain that the situation exists because of our freedoms, but apologize for them? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaah! We should celebrate our freedoms!

[samclem]

The woman is simply stupid, and juvenile as well. If she’s not stupid, then I’m honestly perplexed by the nonsensical things she says.

She is NOT stupid, of course. So that leaves juvenile. And given to hyperbole, as is Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Moore.

If you are a player in todays political society, you need to get your "market share." You do this by being as outrageous as possible.

It's just too bad that even a small percentage of people on both sides of the aisle tend to get their opinions from only biased sources.

[Polycarp]

Why would you apologize that our freedoms permit certain activities? You might explain that the situation exists because of our freedoms, but apologize for them? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaah! We should celebrate our freedoms!

I'm not apologizing for freedom of speech (or of the press), John, but for the fact that they're being used to insult good neighbors.

I personally think that 99% of Americans have no clue about Canadian mindsets --of any social or political persuasion.

[elucidator]

Canadians got mindsets? Who knew? Know one what's got an attitude, for sure, but mindsets? With all due, Poly, got a cite for that?

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip>

I personally think that 99% of Americans have no clue about Canadian mindsets --of any social or political persuasion.
Got it in one, Polycarp. Being a Canadian on these Boards has been a fascinating experience for me - people from both countries are so alike in so many ways, and so different in others. Bottom line - we are Canadians, not any flavour of United Statesian. We have our own sovereign country, with everything that entails.

And I agree with Gorsnak about the column written by the United Statesian woman living in Canada. She doesn't really get it.

[GIGObuster]

Left wing..right wing.

Red state.. Blue state.

Dr Sanneuss Coulterisel new children's book! Coming soon for the holidays! Order you copy today!!

[Evil Captor]

The first mistake you're making is lumping all conservatives into the "right wing". If you meant she doesn't speak for all conservatives, than you must call anyone left-of-center a "left winger"

Here I am trying to be all fair and reasonable and duffer wants to differ with me.

A) What's the difference between "conservative" and "right wing"? If there's anything more to it than rhetorical cant, spit it out.

Not very important to the survival of the species, but saying anyone that doesn't hold your world-view is an extremist is counter-productive and often disingenuous (sp?).

Nice strawman you built there, buddy. How the hell did you get from my statement that Ann Coulter represents the viewpoints of many rwingers, but not mainstream rwingers, to me calling anyone who doesn't hold my world-view an extremist? Quite the leap, boyo.

[Miller]

While I'm willing to concede that Coulter doesn't represent mainstream right wing thought to any great degree, it's patently obvious that a bestselling author with planty of TV forums to speak from DOES speak for a considerable portion of the right, whereas Reeder's influence, AFAIK, is pretty much limited to this message board and whatever others he may frequent. Not the same thing at all.

Eh. I own a few Noam Chomsky books. Doesn't mean I agree with what he says. However, it's good to know that if Noam ever calls for the annexation of Canada, Reeder will be all over him like white on rice.

[Muffin]

Got it in one, Polycarp. Being a Canadian on these Boards . . . But I thought you were from Calgary? ;)

[duffer]

Here I am trying to be all fair and reasonable and duffer wants to differ with me.

A) What's the difference between "conservative" and "right wing"? If there's anything more to it than rhetorical cant, spit it out.



Nice strawman you built there, buddy. How the hell did you get from my statement that Ann Coulter represents the viewpoints of many rwingers, but not mainstream rwingers, to me calling anyone who doesn't hold my world-view an extremist? Quite the leap, boyo.

Always one to differ. ;)

Conservative vs. "right wing". I was quoting that post as a basis for a general response to everyone that equates conservatives to "right-wingers". Not directly to your post. I need to remember to make such distinctions in the future. I get in trouble on these.

I wasn't accusing you of saying Coulter speaks for all conservatives. Nor that all conservatives are "right-wingers". I was using your post to make a broader statement. Please forgive the oversight if it upset you. I probably have quite a few more posts to go before most understand what I'm trying to say in any given post.

Such is life, hope you understand. :)

[Tracy Lord]

She is NOT stupid, of course.

Seems like it to me: she has no grasp of -- well, of humanity! She clearly doesn't have any idea about any culture other than American culture, and a shoddy grip on that as well; she says that an entire country should be ridiculed because they speak another language; she doesn't understand the support that Canada gave to the US after Sept. 11; she doesn't understand the concept of logic. And those are just examples from this thread! Show me anything that she has said or done that evinces that Ms. Coulter is anything but an ignorant and intellectually incapable woman.

[Barbarian]

If she comes 'round here I'm going to wash her face in the snow.

I'd like to see that. Particularly since where you live, you'd either have to haul her ugly ass up a mountain or drag her to the zamboni pile ;)

Oh, and elucidator, that's a particularly dumbass comment that citizens of other countries would prefer to be Americans. It's precisely that attitude that contributes to America-bashing around the world.

[duffer]

OK, I'll offer up another Canadian viewpoint that shows not all Canadians are against America's policiesl nor are they asking for an apology. (I can keep quoting these for a loooong time) From what I've seen, travelling to Manitoba and Saskatchewan for business, central Canada is more in line with Washington than Ottawa.

Here's the latest (http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/editorial/10342713.htm). First letter.

[mhendo]

However, it's good to know that if Noam ever calls for the annexation of Canada, Reeder will be all over him like white on rice.Noam would probably be more likely to call for the annexation of the United States by Canada.

[Raygun99]

OK, I'll offer up another Canadian viewpoint that shows not all Canadians are against America's policiesl nor are they asking for an apology. (I can keep quoting these for a loooong time) From what I've seen, travelling to Manitoba and Saskatchewan for business, central Canada is more in line with Washington than Ottawa.

Here's the latest (http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/editorial/10342713.htm). First letter.

Here's a whole bunch of opinions at once...
Canadians prefer Kerry to Bush (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/10/03/654640-cp.html)
"Other regional breakdowns, with Kerry's numbers first and Bush's second, were: British Columbia, 58-19; Ontario, 53-19; the Atlantic provinces, 49-28; Alberta, 45-27; and Manitoba and Saskatchewan, 43-30."

So no, we're not all of one mind set. No one ever said they were. Neither are Americans. Most Canadians don't like Bush, though, and I think it'd be tough to support that they do, in any region of Canada. I would remind you that Saskatchewan and Manitoba both have socialist provincial governments right now, Saskatchewan for four straight elections.

[Grey]

Personally, I take great comfort in having the United States as our neighbor. It is like having an older brother watching out for us. I also am glad that your president is someone who is viewed as "strong" in the world. I believe this reputation deters some radicals from turning their "beliefs" into "action." Oh I'm not so sure about Ottawa being out of step with the praires...we've almost as simpering here too. :rolleyes:

[Excalibre]

Polycarp, you seem to understand how conservatives feel about Michael Moore.
I've noticed this myself, but the question is why? When did he call all you guys traitors? He may say things you don't like about your party leadership, but I challenge you to find anything he's said that's equivalent to what Coulter says about Democrats. Or anything as embarrassing as this Canada-bashing.


Please remember folks, Reeder speaks for the left to precisely the same degree that Coulter speaks for the right.
Keep in mind, though, that Reeder doesn't look nearly as good in a bikini.

[GIGObuster]

Personally, I take great comfort in having the United States as our neighbor. It is like having an older brother watching out for us.

"He loved Big Brother..." - George Orwell

[milroyj]

Bottom line - we are Canadians, not any flavour of United Statesian.

Are you channeling Aldebaran now? Really, it is the epitome of rude to refer to a group of people by any other name than that which they call themselves. Almost 300 million of us, and I'd bet not a single one has ever called himself a "United Statesian". We're Americans, and if that causes you to have an inferiority complex, oh well.

[bashere]

If Reeder will allow an outside opinion first published in The Washington Post, I'd like to point anyone interested to think about an American in Toronto and her view on the two countries.

If you haven't seen it yet, check here (http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/editorial/10326754.htm)

I find Coulter too incomprehensible to respond to. I mean, what is this, third grade? "Our military is bigger than your military"? That's how fourth grade boys argue, not how national discourse about important issues is to be handled. At least with Moore one can say that he's wrong, with Coulter she'd have to take several steps toward sanity to become merely wrong. As it is she comes across as insane and I try to avoid letting insane people influence my opinion (and I self-identify as conservative).

My real reason for posting is that, as an American living in Toronto, I don't find that article to be a particularly accurate description of my experiences. The joke about Canadians defining themselves as "not American" is not entirely without its truth, but it is hardly the only thing that makes Canadians Canadian. There are Canadians who are exasperated by Americans and America, and there are Canadians who out and out hate the place, but that's hardly the entirety of Canadian culture.

Coulter's comments about Canada defy response. Yes, Norway might be able to invade. Does Norway have plans on cornering the world market on godforsaken frozen wastelands? If not, then perhaps preparing for their invasion might not be the best possible use of resources.

[LonesomePolecat]

Ann Coulter has become like Michael Moore, a festering embarassment to everyone on her side of the political spectrum.

[Helen's Eidolon]

Are you channeling Aldebaran now? Really, it is the epitome of rude to refer to a group of people by any other name than that which they call themselves. Almost 300 million of us, and I'd bet not a single one has ever called himself a "United Statesian". We're Americans, and if that causes you to have an inferiority complex, oh well.
Two points: First, it does become problematic to refer to citizens of the United States as Americans when discussing themin comparison to Canadians because we are all residents of the Americas. Second, I didn't see your ire get quite so raised last time someone said Canadians were from Canadia.

[Gorsnak]

I thought it was Soviet Canuckistan. Dammit, left out of the loop again!

[The Truth]

American = a citizen of the United States.

A Canadian is not an American and neither is a Mexican or anybody else for that matter. They can call themselves whatever the hell they please, as long as it's not American.

[treis]

Two points: First, it does become problematic to refer to citizens of the United States as Americans when discussing themin comparison to Canadians because we are all residents of the Americas.

No its not, we are Americans becuase our nation is called the United States of America . If you want to refer to Canadians by their continent, North America, they would be called North Americans. Only residents of the USA can rightfully refer to themselves as Americans.

[Gorsnak]

Only residents of the USA can rightfully refer to themselves as Americans.
Oh bullshit. Anyone from the Americas can rightfully refer to themselves as Americans, be they from Tierra del Fuego or Tuktoyaktuk.

[The Truth]

Oh bullshit. Anyone from the Americas can rightfully refer to themselves as Americans, be they from Tierra del Fuego or Tuktoyaktuk.

And I call bullshit to that. A Canadian who calls himself/herself American is an idiot. The same would apply to a Mexican or anybody else. Why would somebody improperly identify themselves and cause confusion as to their origin, unless they have a huge hard on for all things American.

[Gorsnak]

:rolleyes:

You know, sometimes words have more than one meaning. Take, oh, there are so many choices, let's say for example 'switch', just because it's the first thing that popped into my head. It can mean a control device, as in an electrical switch which opens and closes a circuit, or it can mean a thin stick used to administer corporal punishment. Two meanings that aren't the same! Wow! That said, let's look at what Merriam Webster has to say (and don't bitch, it's as pro-American-in-the-US sense a dictionary as you're likely to find, just be glad I'm not citing the OED).

American n.
1 : an American Indian of No. America or So. America
2 : a native or inhabitant of No. America or So. America
3 : a citizen of the U.S.
4 : AMERICAN ENGLISH

Oh look! 'Citizen of the US' isn't the only meaning of the word 'American'! Gosh! Who would ever have thought it could be, what with two entire continents bearing that name???!

Now, as to your point, such as it was, I will concede that if I were travelling in Europe and someone asked me my nationality, 'American' would be misleading at best. However, the ordinary practice used to determine which of a word's possible meanings is being used is to look at context. So long as it's reasonably clear that I'm not using the nationality meaning of the word, I see no reason not to use 'American' as a descriptor of myself.

[Helen's Eidolon]

I agree it's PROBLEMATIC to refer to someone not from the US as American. Nevertheless, to be from the Americas is one meaning of the word 'American', whether you like it or not.

[Kimstu]

TT: A Canadian who calls himself/herself American is an idiot.

I don't think most Canadians do, although I agree that all of us who live in the Americas are in some sense American. However, everybody seems to realize that "American" is the only established term to refer to a citizen of the USA (what else could we use? Usan? Yoony? doesn't really work), so applying the term to Canadians and Panamanians and most everybody else in this hemisphere too would just be confusing.

However, maintaining that only United States people have a "right" to call themselves Americans is IMHO silly. It's only about commonly accepted usage, folks, let's not blow it up into a "rights" issue.

IME, what some Canadians do tend to reject, and with some reason, is the use of "America" to mean "United States". In that case, we do have a perfectly good and accepted alternative to the more generic name, so we might as well stick to it and leave "America" to retain its broader meaning.

[GIGObuster]

When James Monroe proclaimed about "America for the Americans," he sure was talking about the USA taking control of the American continent, but even then, officially and for propaganda purposes; he was referring to the whole American continent, and that other nations of America deserved freedom from Europe. And yes, that all the countries down there and up are America. It is only tradition that compels the US citizens to say that “we call ourselves American”, that is all right, as long we don’t forget it is not quite accurate.

[Cat Whisperer]

But I thought you were from Calgary? ;)
Why, oh why don't we have an animated raspberry smiley?

I refer to citizens of the United States of American as United Statesians for precision of comprehension in a very limited medium. As already noted here, our continent is America - from Cabo de Hornos to Ellesmere Island. You guys can't claim it for your distinguishing label just because you have included it in your country name. Your country name is The United States of [the continent] America.

Or maybe I just do it to tweak frail egos.

[The Truth]

However, maintaining that only United States people have a "right" to call themselves Americans is IMHO silly. It's only about commonly accepted usage, folks, let's not blow it up into a "rights" issue.


It is more of a common sense issue, IMO.

Look at popular culture for example. I bet 99 % of all song titles that have the word America, or American does not refer to any other place besides the USA.

[The Truth]

I refer to citizens of the United States of American as United Statesians for precision of

No, I think you do it just to be intentionally rude.

I still call Canadians for Canadians, but if I see the majority adopting your term, I will refer to them as dipshits from now on. French Canadians will be known as french dipshits.

[Kimstu]

TT: No, I think you do it just to be intentionally rude.

:confused: What on earth do you consider "rude" about the made-up term "United Statesian"? I'm just as American as you are, and I don't see anything rude about it in the least. Somewhat clumsy, unfamiliar, and more trouble than it's worth, perhaps, but rude? Not at all.

In fact, back when there used to be a big flap on these boards about somebody's (Aldebaran's? don't recall) use of the name "USers" for Americans, which many people considered an offensive and malicious variant of "users", I always thought that we should just offer the alternative of "USan". Short, simple, unambiguous, and non-derogatory.

Come to think of it, I hereby declare that the use of the term "USan" (capitalize the "S", please!) or "United Statesian" (clunky though it sounds) is perfectly acceptable to Americans, at least insofar as they're represented by me. I don't see why The Truth should be the only one who gets to lay down arbitrary restrictions based on his personal preferences.

[Miller]

No, I think you do it just to be intentionally rude.

Yes, but in fairness, it's only rude to people with very small brains. Most of the rest of us United Statesians could give a flying fuck.

[The Truth]

Come to think of it, I hereby declare that the use of the term "USan" (capitalize the "S", please!) or "United Statesian" (clunky though it sounds) is perfectly acceptable to Americans, at least insofar as they're represented by me. I don't see why The Truth should be the only one who gets to lay down arbitrary restrictions based on his personal preferences.

There's no need to invent new words, when the word exists already.

And if somebody is going to invent new words, I certainly wouldn't want the likes of an Alberadan person or some Canadian making up any names for Americans.

Call Americans for what you please, but I have a few names of my own which I will address these people with.

[RickJay]

Why, oh why don't we have an animated raspberry smiley?

I refer to citizens of the United States of American as United Statesians for precision of comprehension in a very limited medium.
With all due respect, featherlou, that's silly. While we can call ourselves "Americans" and be technically correct according to the dictionary, no Canadian I know uses "Americans" to mean anything other than people from the United States. Nobody overseas calls anyone "Americans" when they mean Canadians. The only time you ever hear Canadians use the term in any other way is during these stupid-ass arguments when we try to co-opt the word and/or claim Americans are arrogant for calling themselves Americans. You yourself have used the term "American" or "Americans" to refer to people or things from the United States on at least a few occasions on this message board.

Nobody in the entire world with an IQ higher than a turnip needs you to say "United Statesian" instead of "American" to know what you're talking about. It's a silly, ugly construction.

Note that I'm a Canadian, and not a US-worshipping Canublican type who drops to his knees whenever a U.S. conservative opens the big hole in the middle of his face, but this entire argument irritates and embarasses me. Do you really, honestly think people from Germany or Japan or Thailand or Egypt are going to start calling Americans "United Statesians"? Pretending that Americans are not entitled to use a word that has been used to describe them for longer than there's been a "United States" is the very height of petty stupidity.

[Evil Captor]

Ann Coulter has become like Michael Moore, a festering embarassment to everyone on her side of the political spectrum.

Moore doesn't embarrass me at all. I see no reason why I SHOULD be embarrassed by Moore. Your notion that there is some sort of equivalence between Moore and Coulter is just purest bullshit.

[Reeder]

Call Americans for what you please, but I have a few names of my own which I will address these people with.


Ahh...I see we have a new bigot on the board

[Talon Karrde]

I don't see what the big fucking deal is about being called something besides an American. United Statesian is perfectly accurate, as is USer.
Oh no! I was called something other than an American! My great pride is mortally wounded an my penis has shrunk!

[Malodorous]

Yeah, both sides have people like Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh who have made names for themselves in an over top vilification of the other side that is far from, and probably destructive to, any reasoned discourse. They exagerate, and fluster to my great annoyance, but neither Moore or Rush or any of their ilk bother me half as much as Coulter. Both Moore and Rush both have actual interesting ideas, they both actually seem to belive in (most) of what they say and their both fairly amusing. None of which I can say for Coulter (I've never read her books, just some of her columns and what I've caught on the TV, so I apoligize if "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)" has some actual interesting insights). She's distilled what was worst about the political blowhards of the world and taken out what made them at least somewhat interesting.

[milroyj]

Two points: First, it does become problematic to refer to citizens of the United States as Americans when discussing themin comparison to Canadians because we are all residents of the Americas. Second, I didn't see your ire get quite so raised last time someone said Canadians were from Canadia.

No, it's not problematic at all. People the world over (except for Canadians with a chip on their shoulder, apparently) understand the difference between Americans and Canadians. To suggest otherwise is silly.

[Kimstu]

I have to say that I'm a little startled that it seems to be conservative posters who are complaining most strongly about these nomenclature issues. I thought that conservatives scorned this sort of PC nitpickiness over who's allowed to be called what (black people insisting that the only correct term is "African-American", Asians who say that nobody's allowed to use "Oriental", etc.)

Certainly, the most common and generally accepted usage holds that citizens of the United States are "Americans", and Canadians are not. I think everybody here knows that. However, since different terms and different uses of the terms certainly are occasionally attested ("Americans" for any inhabitants of the Americas, "United Statesians" for Americans, etc.), and since the terms and usages are obviously non-derogatory, why on earth is anybody getting their knickers all twisty about them?

In short: cool it on the patriotic PC, fellers. If a few Canadians sometimes choose to use a less usual definition of "American" and apply the term to themselves, what does it really matter?

[milroyj]

In short: cool it on the patriotic PC, fellers. If a few Canadians sometimes choose to use a less usual definition of "American" and apply the term to themselves, what does it really matter?

It doesn't matter much, bet then neither does Canada.

[Muffin]

But I thought you were from Calgary? ;)

Why, oh why don't we have an animated raspberry smiley?

I refer to citizens of the United States of American as United Statesians for precision of comprehension in a very limited medium. As already noted here, our continent is America - from Cabo de Hornos to Ellesmere Island. You guys can't claim it for your distinguishing label just because you have included it in your country name. Your country name is The United States of [the continent] America.

Or maybe I just do it to tweak frail egos.As long as no one starts calling me an American or other such pejorative name, I really don't care what anyone calls citizens of the USA. Since they and the rest of the world have been calling citizens of the USA Americans for a very long time, then I see no point is disputing it.

What it comes down to is that the social, economic, political and international direction that the USA has taken, and the popular jingoism of those such as Coulter, would remain regardless of whatever term is used to describe people from the USA.

[duffer]

In short: cool it on the patriotic PC, fellers. If a few Canadians sometimes choose to use a less usual definition of "American" and apply the term to themselves, what does it really matter?

I'll go one better. From now on I'll refer to citizens of Moscow as Asians. Also Asian are residents of Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran. I'll refer to New Zealanders as Australian. And to top it off, the Eqyptian family I know will be called African-Americans.


Anyone using the argument that Canada being in North America means they're "American" is twisting definitions that make even me stare in awe.

[duffer]

Ann Coulter has become like Michael Moore, a festering embarassment to everyone on her side of the political spectrum.

Yeah, but what if she was wearing a leather bustier and wielding a riding crop to try to change your mind? ;)

[Kimstu]

duffer: I'll go one better. From now on I'll refer to citizens of Moscow as Asians. Also Asian are residents of Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran. I'll refer to New Zealanders as Australian. And to top it off, the Eqyptian family I know will be called African-Americans.

Well, as petulant PC hissy-fits go, that wasn't bad. I'd give it about a 7.5.

[duffer]

duffer: I'll go one better. From now on I'll refer to citizens of Moscow as Asians. Also Asian are residents of Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran. I'll refer to New Zealanders as Australian. And to top it off, the Eqyptian family I know will be called African-Americans.

Well, as petulant PC hissy-fits go, that wasn't bad. I'd give it about a 7.5.

Where the hell does PC come into this? I'm just following the rule where anyone living in NA can be called American.

[Muffin]

It doesn't matter much, bet then neither does Canada.You are a shining example of why I am glad I am not American. Enjoy Coulter as much as you want.

[milroyj]

You are a shining example of why I am glad I am not American. Enjoy Coulter as much as you want.

Believe you me, we are equally, if not more, glad.

[Gorsnak]

Where the hell does PC come into this? I'm just following the rule where anyone living in NA can be called American.
What you seem to be failing to understand is that there are times when one might want to refer to the people of a given continent. So, at times, one wants to say things like "between 1939 and 1945 Europeans received a first-hand lesson in the horrors of war" or "the makeup of American populations changed dramatically between 1600 and 1700 due to the large influx of Old World emigres" or "the effects of colonization are still felt by Africans". At such times, the use of 'American' to include Argentines and Salvadorans and Canadians is entirely appropriate.

This has got to be the dumbest discussion I've ever got into on this board.

[Kimstu]

duffer: I'm just following the rule where anyone living in NA can be called American.

How do you get "Egyptian" = "African-American" as an analogy to that rule?

And I'm calling it "PC" because it seems exactly similar to the sort of disproportionate fussiness and hostility about using "wrong" nomenclatures that PC is often accused of. I guess there's conservative PC as well as liberal PC.

[duffer]

What you seem to be failing to understand is that there are times when one might want to refer to the people of a given continent. So, at times, one wants to say things like "between 1939 and 1945 Europeans received a first-hand lesson in the horrors of war" or "the makeup of American populations changed dramatically between 1600 and 1700 due to the large influx of Old World emigres" or "the effects of colonization are still felt by Africans". At such times, the use of 'American' to include Argentines and Salvadorans and Canadians is entirely appropriate.

This has got to be the dumbest discussion I've ever got into on this board.


What you're failing to understand in this post is that there is no country in and of itself recognized as being "Europe". When someone says they're European, most people know it could mean English, French, Spanish, Greek, Czech, etc. "American" is recognized (by most) as a citizen of the US.

I agree the discussion is getting pretty dumb, so I'm probably going to bow out of it. But first....

[Muffin]

I suppose we could call them "our southern colonies" . . . nah, let's just call them Americans and discuss substantive issues rather than needlessly poke then with a stick. Rudeness won't accomplish anything.

[duffer]

How do you get "Egyptian" = "African-American" as an analogy to that rule?

Well, because Egypt is in Africa. And unless you've been in a cave, you mightknow that American blacks are often referred to as African-American. So with Eqypt being in Africa, any Eqyptian that lives in the US is African-American.

[Kimstu]

duffer: So with Eqypt being in Africa, any Eqyptian that lives in the US is African-American.

Oh, I see. I didn't realize your Egyptian friends were living in the US.

(Now I'm kind of wondering why you spell "Egypt" with a "q" instead of a "g", or whether it's just my browser.)

[The Truth]

Ahh...I see we have a new bigot on the board

And just who are you exactly ? The boards resident hypocrite, and kneejerk, liberal moron ?

I'm not the one making up silly names for other groups of people in this thread.

I bet if you saw a black kid getting beaten up by a KKK person, you'd probably blame the black kid, judging by who you choose to place the blame on in this thread.

:eek:

[Miller]

I'll go one better. From now on I'll refer to citizens of Moscow as Asians. Also Asian are residents of Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran. I'll refer to New Zealanders as Australian. And to top it off, the Eqyptian family I know will be called African-Americans.


With the exception of New Zealand being part of Australia (they're quite far apart, really) I've heard people make precisely those classifications in complete earnestness. Particularly the Egyptian=African argument.

Of course, the real stupidity in this discussion isn't the geographical hairsplitting, it's the idea that people were actually getting offended at not being called American. Fer fuck's sake, how thin a skin can you have?

[Reeder]

One more day.

[FinnAgain]

I bet if you saw a black kid getting beaten up by a KKK person, you'd probably blame the black kid, judging by who you choose to place the blame on in this thread.



Please tell me that you've never had fifteen dollars to your name and never will?

[duffer]

(Now I'm kind of wondering why you spell "Egypt" with a "q" instead of a "g", or whether it's just my browser.)

:smack: :smack: Well, one out of three ain't bad. Just a typo on the last two. Kinda like when I try to write it. All the loops in a row just fuck me up.

[Clothahump]

http://mediamatters.org/items/200412010011

It's sad. She would be funny if she had any humor about her.

Let's hope her idiotic mindset is not par for the course in the repug party.

Christ on a crutch!

Some people are so hot to find something to bitch about that they overlook the simplest and most obvious things:

facetious

\Fa*ce"tious\, a. [Cf. F. fac['e]tieux. See Faceti[ae].] 1. Given to wit and good humor; merry; sportive; jocular; as, a facetious companion.

2. Characterized by wit and pleasantry; exciting laughter; as, a facetious story or reply. -- Fa*ce\"tious*ly, adv. -- Fa*ce\"tious*ness, n.

In other words, she was making a joke, fer Pete's sake!

[Gorsnak]

she was making a joke, fer Pete's sake!
Cite?

Is the whole "treason" thing a joke, too? What about the zombie-like appearance?

[Helen's Eidolon]

It doesn't matter much, bet then neither does Canada.I can now say I've heard it all. My poor American friends. They constantly try to assure me that not all Americans think of Canada as the gum on their shoe, and then someone like you comes along...

[duffer]

With the exception of New Zealand being part of Australia (they're quite far apart, really) I've heard people make precisely those classifications in complete earnestness. Particularly the Egyptian=African argument.

Of course, the real stupidity in this discussion isn't the geographical hairsplitting, it's the idea that people were actually getting offended at not being called American. Fer fuck's sake, how thin a skin can you have?

Agreed. I'm not trying to do any geographical hairsplitting. My intent was to point out the fallacy of arguing that anyone from N or S America could be considered American when "American" is recognized the world over as being from the USA.

Also, I know NZ is not Australia. But I was making the point that naming anyone as a native of a given country based only on what continent the country is in is weak, at best. Hence the Egyptian reference. Calling Egyptians "African" as well as those in say, Liberia grossly overlooks many differences. The same as calling residents of Mexico "American" overlooks more than a few differences.

BTW, I'm working on the assumption that NZ is part of the continent of Australia, not the country of Australia. Am I wrong on that?

[Helen's Eidolon]

Oh, also, I have no problem referring to residents of the US as Americans. In fact, I do it all the time. But it doesn't take a huge leap to understand why some people would prefer not to in dicussions of USA/Canada relations. Use some rationality here, people.

[duffer]

I can now say I've heard it all. My poor American friends. They constantly try to assure me that not all Americans think of Canada as the gum on their shoe, and then someone like you comes along...

Oh, trust me. There are many Canadians that help reaffirm this attitude in the US.

(Who was that fucking cunt in Ottawa awhile back that was caught on tape slamming the Americans?)

[Helen's Eidolon]

BTW, I'm working on the assumption that NZ is part of the continent of Australia, not the country of Australia. Am I wrong on that?I believe the continent is called Australasia or Oceania.

[Helen's Eidolon]

Oh, trust me. There are many Canadians that help reaffirm this attitude in the US.

(Who was that fucking cunt in Ottawa awhile back that was caught on tape slamming the Americans?)
I don't deny that there is a lot of anti-American sentiment in Canada. But there are some qualifiers that I don't think are parallel: I do think it is more a reflection of the current administration, it is in large part because of the attitudes you guys have of us and it's mixed with a deep appreciation of the US, as well.

[Reeder]

snip


Now what you said makes sense.

Did you bother to watch the video?

I guess not.

[Reeder]

I can now say I've heard it all. My poor American friends. They constantly try to assure me that not all Americans think of Canada as the gum on their shoe, and then someone like you comes along...


You do know he is a frigging idiot don't you?

[Helen's Eidolon]

You do know he is a frigging idiot don't you?I'm learning quickly.

[duffer]

I don't deny that there is a lot of anti-American sentiment in Canada. But there are some qualifiers that I don't think are parallel: I do think it is more a reflection of the current administration, it is in large part because of the attitudes you guys have of us and it's mixed with a deep appreciation of the US, as well.

I personally don't know of anyone where I live that doesn't hold Canada in high regard. I guess both sides of the border can get caught up in the politics and forget there are many on each side either party can agree with. Such is life. Like France, I may loathe the administration and many Parisians, but I've come to acknowledge that many, many French are actually very much supportive of the US.

Damn SDMB, making me learn to examine my views and not just take a knee-jerk stance on everything. :mad:

But whatever else happens, my state is proud to share this (http://www.peacegarden.com/) with our Northern brothers and sisters. :)

[RickJay]

Oh, also, I have no problem referring to residents of the US as Americans. In fact, I do it all the time. But it doesn't take a huge leap to understand why some people would prefer not to in dicussions of USA/Canada relations. Use some rationality here, people.
Sorry, but I'm not seeing the point. Does anyone YOU know become confused by the term "Americans" when discussing US-Canada relations? Do you ever hear conversations that go like this?

SMITH: So the United States and Canada are having trade talks.

JONES: Oh, how is it going?

SMITH: Well, the Americans are looking for a better deal in the Auto Pact.

JONES: Americans? I'm confused. Which ones are the Americans?

SMITH: The folks from the United States.

JONES: Oh, you had me confused there, I've never heard that before.

SMITH: Sorry. So anyway, the Canadians wanted...

JONES: Wait... do you mean Canadians as in people from Canada, or as in the hockey team from Montreal?


I mean, give me a break.

[Reeder]

You do know it's the Montreal Canadiens rather than Canadians don't you?

[Tracy Lord]

It doesn't matter much, bet then neither does Canada.

That was a good time, though, when they invaded us and burned our capital to the ground.

[Miller]

BTW, I'm working on the assumption that NZ is part of the continent of Australia, not the country of Australia. Am I wrong on that?

It's neither.

[gobear]

BTW, I'm working on the assumption that NZ is part of the continent of Australia, not the country of Australia. Am I wrong on that?

Look at a map before you post, you doof. God, no wonder foreigners think Americans are geographical dunces.

And Ann Coulter's a crazy cunt who should be ignored by any sane human who isn't actually a member of Aryan Nation.

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip>This has got to be the dumbest discussion I've ever got into on this board.
I second that emotion.

{makes note to self: don't tweak Citizens of the United States of America about guns, Capitalism, or what to call them on a message board.}

[milroyj]

I can now say I've heard it all. My poor American friends. They constantly try to assure me that not all Americans think of Canada as the gum on their shoe, and then someone like you comes along...

Rest assured, we don't think of you as gum on our shoe. In fact, we don't think of you at all.

[Reeder]

Rest assured, we don't think of you as gum on our shoe. In fact, we don't think of you at all.


We?

You got a turd in your pocket?

[Cyros]

Rest assured, we don't think of you as gum on our shoe. In fact, we don't think of you at all.

As evidenced by the fact it took President Bush 3 years to remember to thank us for the help we provided after 9/11.

[matt_mcl]

Rest assured, we don't think of you as gum on our shoe. In fact, we don't think of you at all.

Until we refer to you as United Statesians, apparently.

[Reeder]

As evidenced by the fact it took President Bush 3 years to remember to thank us for the help we provided after 9/11.


Please don't equate all Americans with Bush or milwhatever.

[milroyj]

We?

Yes, we, as in the majority of Americans. You know, that majority that re-elcted President Bush, right?

I know it troubles you greatly, but really, we don't care about you, or Canada, get over it.

[Reeder]

Yes, we, as in the majority of Americans. You know, that majority that re-elcted President Bush, right?

I know it troubles you greatly, but really, we don't care about you, or Canada, get over it.

So you are saying that everyone that voted for Duhbya despises Canada as much as you do?

Is that right?

[milroyj]

Please don't equate all Americans with Bush or milwhatever.

Can't you come up with something better than milwhatever? Even I find it boring. Sheesh!

[milroyj]

So you are saying that everyone that voted for Duhbya despises Canada as much as you do?

Is that right?

Reading Comprehension 101: I never said anyone despises Canada; in fact, we don't think of it all.

[Evil Captor]

Reading Comprehension 101: I never said anyone despises Canada; in fact, we don't think of it all.

Unless we need reasonably priced medicine, or in the near future, oil from shale.

[Typo Negative]

Or some decent beer.....

[matt_mcl]

...or sensible marriage laws...

[Netbrian]

Or legal marijuana.

[rjung]

...or affordable health care...

[infamousmom]

Let's hope her idiotic mindset is not par for the course in the repug party.

Just another right-wing dipwhistle who doesn't know that there's a special word for the descendants of people who were conservatives back in 1776: Canadians.

[infamousmom]

Just another right-wing dipwhistle who doesn't know that there's a special word for the descendants of people who were conservatives back in 1776: Canadians.


Um, Coulter, that is. Not Reeder.

[drm]

or Kristin Kreuk

As for the OP, I can't be bothered to pay much attention to Ann Coulter.

[Tracy Lord]

I will again remind the posters here that Canada is, to date, the only country to successfully invade the United States and burn our capitol to the ground.

[Brutus]

I will again remind the posters here that Canada is, to date, the only country to successfully invade the United States and burn our capitol to the ground.

Take 'Fake History 101' in college?

[FinnAgain]

I will again remind the posters here that Canada is, to date, the only country to successfully invade the United States and burn our capitol to the ground.

Which is why they call themselves Canadians.
Think about it.
If we were in a war with them and were going to invade, we'd have to find 'em on a map.
As most folks know, geography is not the strongsuit of American public school education.

So a bunch of soldiers would sit down and try to figure out where exactly they should invade. Now, they'd know that the folks they were invading were Canadians. And where, I ask you, do Canadians come from? Why, Canadia, of course.

They would look on the map, find a Canada, but no Canadia, and be forced to call the whole damn thing off.

Brilliant and fiendish, exactly what I've come to expect from the Canuks.

[FinnAgain]

Take 'Fake History 101' in college?

War of 1812, we invaded Canada (which was a British possesion), Brits came on down and burned down the Whitehouse. At that point, however, the distinction between Great Britain and Canada was certainly not what it is today. Still, Brits and/or Canadians kicked our asses and razed some shit.

To be fair, we also burned down Toronto and repelled attacks against NYC.

[duffer]

Look at a map before you post, you doof. God, no wonder foreigners think Americans are geographical dunces.

And Ann Coulter's a crazy cunt who should be ignored by any sane human who isn't actually a member of Aryan Nation.

I did look at a map (http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/xx.html) you fucking moron. Or is the CIA Factbook suddenly not accepted here? If not I'll offer this one (http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3a%2f%2fweb.ask.com%2fweb%3fq%3dwhat%2bare%2bthe%2bseven%2bcontinents%26o%3d0%26page% 3d1&q=what+are+the+seven+continents&u=http%3a%2f%2ftm.wc.ask.com%2fr%3ft%3dan%26s%3da%26uid%3d01F059FB71777E414%26sid%3d19E7E40F79BD24B1 4%26qid%3d3F8795BB1A66114F8D7EFD94F1F970E5%26io%3d0%26sv%3dz6f5372c8%26o%3d0%26ask%3dwhat%2bare%2bth e%2bseven%2bcontinents%26uip%3d18dc5537%26en%3dte%26eo%3d-100%26pt%3dThe%2bseven%2bcontinents%2band%2bfour%2boceans.%26ac%3d24%26qs%3d0%26pg%3d1%26ep%3d1%26te _par%3d108%26te_id%3d%26u%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.ri.net%2fschools%2fCentral_Falls%2fv%2f218%2ft7con.html&s=a&bu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ri.net%2fschools%2fCentral_Falls%2fv%2f218%2ft7con.html&qte=0&o=0&abs=The+Seven+Continents.++Explore+the+Seven+Continents+Click+on+the+Continent+you+want+to+learn+mor e+about.+Africa+Antarctica+Asia+Australia...&tit=The+seven+continents+and+four+oceans.&bin=&cat=wp&purl=http%3a%2f%2ftm.wc.ask.com%2fi%2fb.html%3ft%3dan%26s%3da%26uid%3d01F059FB71777E414%26sid%3d19E7 E40F79BD24B14%26qid%3d3F8795BB1A66114F8D7EFD94F1F970E5%26io%3d%26sv%3dz6f5372c8%26o%3d0%26ask%3dwhat %2bare%2bthe%2bseven%2bcontinents%26uip%3d18dc5537%26en%3dbm%26eo%3d-100%26pt%3d%26ac%3d24%26qs%3d0%26pg%3d1%26u%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fmyjeeves.ask.com%2faction%2fsnip&Complete=1).

Or do I need to find yet another source for the same damn maps?

Oh, and linking conservatives to Aryans? Thanks for calling me a NAZI. Fuck you and everything you stand for. I may not mean much to you, but there are a few notches above where I considered you that will see the light of day.

I'm just disgusted with you right now.

[duffer]

Or legal marijuana.

I would welcome this with an open water-bong. Now I challenge you to tell me how Canadian marijuana law affects the US. At all. In any way. No? Didn't think so.

[FinnAgain]

I would welcome this with an open water-bong. Now I challenge you to tell me how Canadian marijuana law affects the US. At all. In any way. No? Didn't think so.

On come on!
Much of the pot that comes into our country comes over the northern border.
Of course Canadian marijuana laws affect the US, they influence just how easy it is for us to get Canadian pot.

P.S. What is an open water-bong?

[duffer]

P.S. What is an open water-bong?

A water bong with an empty bowl. Duh. :rolleyes:

Sometimes I wish I still did acid. I'm explaining an empty bong! :eek:

[FinnAgain]

You oldsters and your slang. :rolleyes: :D

[duffer]

Wow. Yet again, I'm shown why I love interacting on the SDMB. We somehow got from a Coulter rant to a discussion on bongs. Life is good. ;)

[Tracy Lord]

Brilliant and fiendish, exactly what I've come to expect from the Canuks.

And subtle too, the sneaky bastards!

[gobear]

I did look at a map (http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/xx.html) you fucking moron. Or is the CIA Factbook suddenly not accepted here?

Or maybe you should get better at searching for maps (http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/loc-aus.htm).



Oh, and linking conservatives to Aryans? Thanks for calling me a NAZI. Fuck you and everything you stand for. I may not mean much to you, but there are a few notches above where I considered you that will see the light of day.

I'm just disgusted with you right now.
Learn to read, moron. I didn't call conservatives Nazis--I called Ann Coulter a Nazi, which she is in spirit, if not in actual fact. She spews the vilest garbage that should embarrass any good conservative, who ought to consign her and her kind to the farthest fringes of the extreme right.

[duffer]

Fuck I hate public schools. I was always taught there were 7 continents. Can anyone tell me how many there actually are?

[Liberal]

Fuck I hate public schools. I was always taught there were 7 continents. Can anyone tell me how many there actually are?Depends on whom you ask. National Geographic recognizes 7 continents.

[Helen's Eidolon]

Fuck I hate public schools. I was always taught there were 7 continents. Can anyone tell me how many there actually are?I count 7.

[FinnAgain]

~sniffles~
After Pangea it just wasn't the same.

[Liberal]

Depends on whom you ask. National Geographic recognizes 7 continents.Specifically, it recognizes:

North America
South America
Europe
Asia
Africa
Australia
Antarctica

[FinnAgain]

Yeah, but out of those that it recognized how many does it know really well?
Like, say, if it saw Asia talking to someone in a crowded party would it make the connection?
If Europe was walking the opposite way down the street would it notice?
If it had to choose Antartica out of a lineup, would it make the right choice?

[Helen's Eidolon]

~sniffles~
After Pangea it just wasn't the same.
I have to say, one of my favourite things lately is saying "Laurasia" or "Gondwanaland". I think everyone in this thread would benefit from taking a break and saying those words.

[cckerberos]

I will again remind the posters here that Canada is, to date, the only country to successfully invade the United States and burn our capitol to the ground.

The White House was burned down by British marines. There wasn't a single Canadian among them.

[Typo Negative]

The White House was burned down by British marines. There wasn't a single Canadian among them.
They were Canadian in their hearts.

[FinnAgain]

The White House was burned down by British marines. There wasn't a single Canadian among them.

Just a bit curious and might as well extend this insane hijack...
but were some of the troops resident in what we now know as Canada?
That is, since Canada wasn't independant, is it possible that some of those troops were garrisoned in Canada and would have as much a claim to being Canadian as anybody else of that time period who lived there but wasn't born there?

[Barbarian]

[QUOTE=FinnAgain]On come on!
Much of the pot that comes into our country comes over the northern border.
[QUOTE]
Actually, only about one percent of the pot in the U.S. comes from Canada. The rest comes from Mexico.

Looks like the Wal-Mart business model of quantity over quality wins out for Americans getting stoned, apparently.

[FinnAgain]

Actually, only about one percent of the pot in the U.S. comes from Canada. The rest comes from Mexico.

Looks like the Wal-Mart business model of quantity over quality wins out for Americans getting stoned, apparently.

I'd question the reliability of those figures.
In a final analysis all we can know is the number of shipments that are intercepted and the 'chatter' that we pick up on both sides of the border. However, even the DEA believes that importation from Canada is on the rise (warning,small pdf) U.S. Seizures Increase
Canadian and U.S. law enforcement officials are concerned that drug traffickers in Canada will escalate the smuggling of Canadian-grown marijuana to U.S. drug markets. Although Canada is not a primary supplier of marijuana to the United States, the smuggling of BC Bud from British Columbia is burgeoning,
as are shipments of Quebec Gold to the northeastern United States. Much of the United States-Canada border consists of vast remote areas interspersed with residences and farms; in some areas the border is delineated only by a narrow trench, which is easily traversed. (http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/intel/01001-intellbrief.pdf)

Still, let's say that only one percent of the pot that comes into the country is BC Bud rather than mexican dirtweed. I think if you added up all the pounds of BC you'd find that even at one percent, there was still much of it. So no, probably not statistically 'much', but in terms of having enough green to kill a horse, yes.

And, another quibble. If we were going to look into whether a walmart model was working or not, I'd suggest that we'd have to factor in homegrown mom-n-pop type places with hydroponic setups and/or good ol' Americans who grow outdoors.

(I sometimes wonder how much of the true economic dynamic of America is being ignored)

[Barbarian]

It is tough to find accurate figures, especially since law enforcement agencies notoriously inflate what they actually find and seize. I've seen estimates at everywhere from 1/2% to 10%.

As for the value of drugs, most estimates put marijuana production at anywhere between $4 and $7 billion in British Columbia alone, enough to make it the province's largest cash crop.

[Cat Whisperer]

I will again remind the posters here that Canada is, to date, the only country to successfully invade the United States and burn our capitol to the ground.
I call "Featherlou's Law" on this.

[cckerberos]

Just a bit curious and might as well extend this insane hijack...
but were some of the troops resident in what we now know as Canada?
That is, since Canada wasn't independant, is it possible that some of those troops were garrisoned in Canada and would have as much a claim to being Canadian as anybody else of that time period who lived there but wasn't born there?

Nope. Apparently, they were were taken from the Lisbon garrison and never set foot in Canada until afterwards.

There have been some great SDMB threads on the War of 1812.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=63222

[Muffin]

Re. 1812.

The British Empire, and most of Europe, was at war with France. The invasion by the USA into the British territory was responded to by British troops, some of whom were normal residents of what is now Canada, some of whom were already stationed there, and some of whom where shipped over from Europe specifically to fight in North America.

One cannot say that Canadians burned down the White House, for there was no Canada as we now know it. Once can say that the Empire burned down the White House as part of the war between the its war between its colonies in North America and the USA, and that this war was a theatre of the European war between the British et al and the French.

To conclude, blame it on the French. :D

[kingpengvin]

There were Canadian's fighting in that war but all were militia and none were part of the burning of Washington. For the most part they fought in border skirmishes and defence.

The most impressive enounter by Militia was between 1500 US soldiers and 180 odd French Canadien Voltigeurs who drove the invading US troops during an engangement at the Chateauguay river in Quebec.

[infamousmom]

Given to wit and good humor; merry; Characterized by wit and pleasantry

You're using those terms and "Ann Coulter" together? Now THAT is a joke.

[Miller]

Actually, only about one percent of the pot in the U.S. comes from Canada. The rest comes from Mexico.

Looks like the Wal-Mart business model of quantity over quality wins out for Americans getting stoned, apparently.

What about domestic? That's not an insubstantial slice of the pie.

[Muffin]

What about domestic? That's not an insubstantial slice of the pie.
I've heard of pot brownies before, but not pot pies. You may be onto something here. :D

[CuriousCanuck]

I've heard of pot brownies before, but not pot pies. You may be onto something here. :D


Mmmm Turkey pot pie.

[Squink]

Re. 1812.
One cannot say that Canadians burned down the White House, for there was no Canada as we now know it....

To conclude, blame it on the French. :D
Why the French? If there was NO Canada, then the people who were living in that would properly be called the default term for most residents of the new world, Americans. The Americans burned down the White house in 1812.

[alice_in_wonderland]

So, does anyone else think that milroyj used to date a Canadian girl, and she made fun of his weeny?

[Tracy Lord]

So, does anyone else think that milroyj used to date a Canadian girl, and she made fun of his weeny?

SSSSSSSSSSHHHHHH! We DON'T THINK ABOUT CANADIANS!

...

EVER!

...

EVERYONE SHUT THE GODDAMN HELL UP AND LEAVE ME ALONE!

[Miller]

So, does anyone else think that milroyj used to date a Canadian girl, and she made fun of his weeny?

milroyj? Dating? Sounds too far-fetched, too me.

[Muffin]

I don't doubt that there are people such as milroyj who do not think of other nations. I don't doubt that there are people who share coulter's views. Aside from the remarkable celebration of ignorance by such people, I am very concerned that they are gaining greater and greater political power. The centre in the USA keeps moving to the right, which is not good for Canada or the world, particularly with regard to the USA's unilateralism.

Thus despite my friendship with many Americans, and my respect for much of the history of the USA and its contributions to the world, I find myself increasingly giving voice to my concern that as it stands the USA is seriously fucked up, and is doing serious harm both to itself and internationally.

When I think of developed countries, the USA is low on the list, despite its being by far the most economically and militarily powerful nation in the world. It is a country driven by selfishness and hate, of which milroyj and coulter are just examples.

I sincerely hope that the USA gets back on track, for there are a great many fine Americans that do not deserve to be dragged down by the likes of milroyj and coulter.

[FinnAgain]

When I think of developed countries, the USA is low on the list, despite its being by far the most economically and militarily powerful nation in the world. It is a country driven by selfishness and hate, of which milroyj and coulter are just examples.


America, as a nation, is driven by selfishness and hate?
Is that honestly your position?

[Muffin]

America, as a nation, is driven by selfishness and hate?
Is that honestly your position?Yes.

I hope it turns itself around.

[FinnAgain]

And what proof do you have to support your claims that American society and/or politics are dominated/driven by those emotions?
Pretty sweeping accusations to be casting at a nation of aproximately 300 million human beings.

[Liberal]

[The US] is a country driven by selfishness and hate, of which milroyj and coulter are just examples.Indeed, can scarcely imagine a populace more driven by selfishness and hate.

89% of US households contribute to charities
The average annual contribution is $1,620
83.9 million Americans do volunteer charitable work
Volunteers contribute 15.5 billion hours, worth $239.2 billion
71% of all adults volunteer when asked
Only 10% of Americans neither give nor volunteer
Since WWII, the US government has spent about $1 trillion on foreign aid
Private US foundations give $1.5 billion per year to foreigners
US businesses contribute $2.8 billion annually
US NGOs give $6.6 billion
US religious organizations spend $3.4 billion for health care, literacy, relief, and development
US colleges give foreign students $1.3 billion in scholarships
Individuals from the US give $18 billion to causes in developing countries


Sources:

http://www.independentsector.org/PDFs/GV01keyfind.pdf

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

http://www.cato.org/dailys/3-10-97.html

[Barbarian]

What about domestic? That's not an insubstantial slice of the pie.

Good question. Let me rephrase to say that when it comes to imported pot, most comes from Mexico, with anywhere from 1/10th to 1/100th coming from Canada.

Although you'd probably get a more accurate response from someone who actually uses weed. Or maybe less accurate ;)

[Cat Whisperer]

I believe Muffin left out one of the true driving forces of the government and most likely a majority of the people of the United States - greed. Selfishness (the "I got mine" mentality) and hate (which includes xenophobia, homophobia and religious intolerance) only takes you so far - greed will take you the rest of the way.

[Liberal]

I believe Muffin left out one of the true driving forces of the government and most likely a majority of the people of the United States - greed. Selfishness (the "I got mine" mentality) and hate (which includes xenophobia, homophobia and religious intolerance) only takes you so far - greed will take you the rest of the way.You truly are a bottom-feeding mental slug. Even when confronted with facts that directly contradict your idiotic premise, you cannot stop yourself from posting your own selfish, hateful, intolerant opinion formed from a black hole of ignorance. Apologize, and admit your error.

[alice_in_wonderland]

You truly are a bottom-feeding mental slug. Even when confronted with facts that directly contradict your idiotic premise, you cannot stop yourself from posting your own selfish, hateful, intolerant opinion formed from a black hole of ignorance. Apologize, and admit your error.

Jesus H. Tapdancing Rudabaga Christ - can you quit being a total dickhead for even three frikin' minutes, EVER?

No? I didn't think so.

[Cat Whisperer]

You truly are a bottom-feeding mental slug. Even when confronted with facts that directly contradict your idiotic premise, you cannot stop yourself from posting your own selfish, hateful, intolerant opinion formed from a black hole of ignorance. Apologize, and admit your error.
It was actually Muffin's premise, not mine. I just added to it.

As to whether I'm a bottom-feeding mental slug, well, time will tell. Apologize and admit my error? That could happen. It's in the realm of possibilities.

[Squink]

Apologize and admit my error? That could happen. It's in the realm of possibilities.::Checks to see whether featherlou is Canadian.::

That explains it!

[Liberal]

can you quit being a total dickhead for even three frikin' minutes, EVER?

No? I didn't think so.Do you have anything to counter the facts I've given that refute the premise you're defending, ANYTHING?

No? I didn't think so.

What a dim fucking bulb you are — calling me a dickhead for correcting the record on a board dedicated to fighting ignorance. I think you need to climb out of that damn mirror and bust it to pieces.

[Helen's Eidolon]

Liberal, there's a difference between individual actions and the actions of a nation. I don't think anyone here means to imply that individual Americans are all bad or greedy or hateful. Nevertheless, one could argue that as a nation, based on the decisions the US makes in relation to other countries and the sort of cultural products it exports, it has different qualities than the individual.

I certainly wouldn't argue that the US is driven by hate and/or greed. I doubt it's driven by pure love for fellow humans, either.

[gobear]

Eh, the US isn't motivated by hate as much as it is by credulity, flawed ideology, and inertia.

[Liberal]

I don't think anyone here means to imply that individual Americans are all bad or greedy or hateful.Look again. From Featherlou (and apparently her lapdog, Alice):

"I believe Muffin left out one of the true driving forces of the government and most likely a majority of the people of the United States - greed. Selfishness (the "I got mine" mentality) and hate (which includes xenophobia, homophobia and religious intolerance) only takes you so far - greed will take you the rest of the way."

(Emphasis mine.)

[alice_in_wonderland]

Look again. From Featherlou (and apparently her lapdog, Alice):


Actually, I don't agree with Featherlou. I just think you're a dickhead. Not to mention an asshole. Not to mention, not particularly bright around the edges. A prick. A jerk. Pretty much a total assmunch. However, I have a solution.

[Helen's Eidolon]

Look again. From Featherlou (and apparently her lapdog, Alice):I didn't see that the first time around. And I disagree with it. Unless she meant the 'majority' is driven by yadda yadda, because as I said before, I think there's a difference between what the majority and the goverment does/thinks and individuals.

[Cat Whisperer]

Actually, the wishes of the majority is what produces the government. I did not say that all Citizens of the United States of America are selfish, hateful and greedy, and I would not say that.

If you accept the premise that the government is selfish, hateful and greedy, however, you may also accept the premise that the majority of the people agree with these policies. If you don't accept this premise, then mine doesn't stand, either. I can live with that.

alice speaks for herself, as do I.

[gobear]

If you accept the premise that the government is selfish, hateful and greedy, however, you may also accept the premise that the majority of the people agree with these policies. If you don't accept this premise, then mine doesn't stand, either. I can live with that.

I certainly believe that at least 51% of the American voters support the routine torture of Iraqi civilians, unlimited American military adventurism with increasing numbers of dead and injured US soldiers, higher levels of pollution in air and water, the evasion of taxes by the rich, sharp restrictions to freedom of speech, and massive deficits that will cripple their children's economic future.

[Zakalwe]

I certainly believe that at least 51% of the American voters support the routine torture of Iraqi civilians, unlimited American military adventurism with increasing numbers of dead and injured US soldiers, higher levels of pollution in air and water, the evasion of taxes by the rich, sharp restrictions to freedom of speech, and massive deficits that will cripple their children's economic future.Actually, according to the "survey" that I saw, no they don't. They simply don't make the connection between these things and George Bush. I'm not defending that, just noting it.

[matt_mcl]

Yeah, apparently the main charge that can be levelled against the US is that a great many Americans are willing to be bamboozled into voting for a government that runs counter to their ideals and interests.

While the circumstances specific to the American case may be interesting, I don't think there are many countries that can claim superiority in that exact regard.

[Maeglin]

Indeed, can scarcely imagine a populace more driven by selfishness and hate.

Liberal, your interpretation of US foreign aid figures leaves something to be desired. It does not support your inflammatory rhetoric.

Let's take a look at foreign aid given by the US government. Let's suppose for a moment that the government is at least vaguely reflective of the will of the people.

Measuring US foreign aid in absolute terms is uninformative. It is not adjusted for inflation, it is not measured as a proportion of US GDP, and it does not show where the aid is concentrated.

While it is true that the US is the largest absolute donor in the OECD's Development Assistance Committee (DAC), the ratio of donation to gross national income (GNI) is a mere .11%. This is the lowest proportion of all DAC donors, and it falls well below the average contribution ratio of .40%.

Furthermore, it is worth noting exactly where our aid goes. This chart (http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/42/30/1860571.gif) is instructive. Nearly a quarter of our foreign aid is unallocated. Half goes to middle income countries, predominantly in the Middle East. Our actual aid to less developed countries is less than 25% of our total allocation.

Perhaps you can forgive me for thinking that aid to Israel, Egypt, Russia, Pakistan, and Jordan aren't exactly signs of our manifold generosity. To my mind, this is a small number of countries with special political significance.

This (http://www.economist.com/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=2963247) article presents a fairly balanced comparison of private giving between the US and Europe. It is useful to consider that taxes in Europe are far higher than they are in the US, and that Europeans are not offered tax incentives to give to charity. Finally, whether one includes gifts to religious bodies or not makes an enormous difference in tracking giving in the US. Some of us do not consider donations to religious groups that sponsor certain kinds of activities very generous.

Just food for thought.

[Muffin]

Here are some of the reasons why I believe that the USA is a country that is driven by selfishness and hate. I only hope that it can turn itself around.

Unilateralism in foreign affairs rather than working together as a member of a community of nations:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/DI10Ak03.html

Overthrow of democracies, such as Chile:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1022347.stm

Illegal and unjustified crusade killing tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq:
http://www.un.int/france/documents_anglais/030305_mae_france_irak.htm

Not willing to be bound by its own treaties or by WTO rulings:
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/eicb/softwood/what-en.asp

No universal health care, leading to reduced life span and reduced healthy life span when compared to most developed nations:
http://www.who.int/whr/2004/en/report04_en.pdf

Rejecting the Kyoto convention on climate change:
http://unfccc.int/2860.php

Loosening up of mercury restrictions:
http://www.waterkeeper.org/mainarticledetails.aspx?articleid=150

Incredibly high murder rate that far exceeds that of other developed nations:
http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/violence/world_report/en/full_en.pdf

Massive incarceration rate that far exceeds that of other developed nations, right up there with the old USSR/new Russia:
http://www.calyx.net/~schaffer/other/sp/abb.html

Systemic and endemic racism as reflected in the grossly disproportionate incarceration of blacks at a rate six times higher than whites:
http://www.calyx.net/~schaffer/other/sp/abb.html

Disenfranchisement of many convicts and in particular disproportional disenfranchisement of blacks:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0818/p02s01-usju.html

Death penalty (about 12 states) in defiance of the UN and despite a 68% error rate:
http://www.unhchr.ch/huridocda/huridoca.nsf/(Symbol)/E.CN.4.RES.2001.68.En?Opendocument
http://www2.law.columbia.edu/instructionalservices/liebman/

State constitution sanctioned segregation (Alabama):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16443-2004Nov27.html

Local religious based avoidance of teaching science with respect to evolution:
http://www.natcenscied.org/

Refusal to ratify UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women:
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/text/econvention.htm

Religious based objection to UN family planning and AIDS prevention programs that offer or mention condoms:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3885629.stm

Religious belief based denial of gay rights with respect to civil marriage and adoption:
http://www.stateline.org/stateline/?pa=story&sa=showStoryInfo&id=353058
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=399

Promotion of integration of church and state by diversion of federally financed social services into faith based organizations:
http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issues

[RickJay]

I believe Muffin left out one of the true driving forces of the government and most likely a majority of the people of the United States - greed. Selfishness (the "I got mine" mentality) and hate (which includes xenophobia, homophobia and religious intolerance) only takes you so far - greed will take you the rest of the way.
Since someone's already apologized for Coulter on behalf of the USA, I'd like to apologize on behalf of Canada for bigoted idiots like featherlou, whose impression of the United States is apparently entirely derived from watching "The O.C." and repeats of "Mississippi Burning" on First Choice.

But fo course, in the minds of simpletons like featherlou, I guess there's no poverty, hate, racial inequality or greed in Canada.

Or maybe there is:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/41/352.html

http://www.tgcrossroads.org/news/?aid=734

http://www.umanitoba.ca/manitoban/20020227/news_3.shtml

http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/publish/article_13263.shtml

http://www.ccsd.ca/pubs/2000/up/

http://geology.about.com/cs/mineralogy/a/aa042097.htm

http://www.sfu.ca/cmns/research/newswatch/pcc/94-4.html

http://www.fsatoronto.com/policy/racialization.html

http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/domino/media.nsf/html/c200400pr_e.html

I guess we see that every country has its bigoted assholes. The stupidity required to come up with the astounding claim that, in a nation of three hundred MILLION people, the majority just happen to be driven by hate and greed - despite the fact that the country, relative to most other countries, seems to get along fairly well and hasn't imploded - is truly staggering. How can anyone be this dumb?

I assure everyone that decent Canadians are doing our best to educate people like featherlou and muffin, but some people are just born bad, and there's only so much you can do.

[Tuckerfan]

Yeah, apparently the main charge that can be levelled against the US is that a great many Americans are willing to be bamboozled into voting for a government that runs counter to their ideals and interests.

While the circumstances specific to the American case may be interesting, I don't think there are many countries that can claim superiority in that exact regard.
Well, Iraq could, up until the US and Britain invaded. You remember that election where Saddam won 100% of the popular vote. . . .

That being said, I think that America should apologize for Ann Coulter when Canada apologies for Celine Deion (or however that annoying bitch spells her name). Some might think that's a bit harsh, but I personally find both of the twats equally annoying.

Oh, and most Americans don't think much about Canada at all, and really, when you look at the nations we have thought a lot about, like Iraq, Panama, El Salvador, Grenada, Vietnam, etc., etc. you'll see that it's a good thing. :D

[Polycarp]

Well, Iraq could, up until the US and Britain invaded. You remember that election where Saddam won 100% of the popular vote. . . .

That being said, I think that America should apologize for Ann Coulter when Canada apologies for Celine Deion (or however that annoying bitch spells her name). Some might think that's a bit harsh, but I personally find both of the twats equally annoying.

Oh, and most Americans don't think much about Canada at all, and really, when you look at the nations we have thought a lot about, like Iraq, Panama, El Salvador, Grenada, Vietnam, etc., etc. you'll see that it's a good thing. :D

You may find Celine Dion a useless git (or gittess, if "git" is exclusively masculine), but I strongly doubt that she has ever authored a book of which the principal theme was to prove you, Tuckerfan, guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors against the United States of America. I let the rhetoric of O'Reilly, Limbaugh, and the other pseudo-conservative rabble-rousers, roll off my back, with an occasional grump about something that strikes me as egregiously offensive. But The Bitch is different -- she is quite willing to put her efforts into destroying the sense of Americanism that used to unite liberal and conservative in a common bond of loyalty to this country, albeit with the reservation that one may criticize the incumbents to one's heart's content, for the purpose of her own personal fame and agitprop in favor of her personal (and ludicrous) ideas. (E.g., Tail Gunner Joe is an American hero! :wally )

You have the right to dislike whomever you choose, be it Celine Dion, Fifty Cent, or Luciano Pavarotti, for whatever reason you choose. But do me the honor of not placing any of them in the category of The Bitch -- her foul rhetoric should earn her a special level in Hell, IMO.

[Zakalwe]

Poly called someone a "bitch". :eek:

The end times have come.

[drm]

Leave Celine Dion out of this if you please!

[Tuckerfan]

You may find Celine Dion a useless git (or gittess, if "git" is exclusively masculine), but I strongly doubt that she has ever authored a book of which the principal theme was to prove you, Tuckerfan, guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors against the United States of America. I let the rhetoric of O'Reilly, Limbaugh, and the other pseudo-conservative rabble-rousers, roll off my back, with an occasional grump about something that strikes me as egregiously offensive. But The Bitch is different -- she is quite willing to put her efforts into destroying the sense of Americanism that used to unite liberal and conservative in a common bond of loyalty to this country, albeit with the reservation that one may criticize the incumbents to one's heart's content, for the purpose of her own personal fame and agitprop in favor of her personal (and ludicrous) ideas. (E.g., Tail Gunner Joe is an American hero! :wally )

You have the right to dislike whomever you choose, be it Celine Dion, Fifty Cent, or Luciano Pavarotti, for whatever reason you choose. But do me the honor of not placing any of them in the category of The Bitch -- her foul rhetoric should earn her a special level in Hell, IMO.Now, Poly, I only bring Celine Dion up to forestall anyone from Canada at getting too cocky about what a great country they have. Certainly, Canada could teach the US a lot, if the half-witted idiots in power (on both sides of the aisle) would only listen, but that doesn't mean that it's a perfect country, and while the likes of Celine Dion aren't nearly as bad as the world's longest surviving case of rabies in a human, they certainly qualify, IMHO, as an oil slick on the pool of life.

I do apologize if I've offended you and will refrain from ever bringing up Celine Dion (or referencing her) in a thread about Ann "I've Got Rabies" Coulter again.

[Cat Whisperer]

Since someone's already apologized for Coulter on behalf of the USA, I'd like to apologize on behalf of Canada for bigoted idiots like featherlou, whose impression of the United States is apparently entirely derived from watching "The O.C." and repeats of "Mississippi Burning" on First Choice.

But fo course, in the minds of simpletons like featherlou, I guess there's no poverty, hate, racial inequality or greed in Canada.
<snip>
I guess we see that every country has its bigoted assholes. The stupidity required to come up with the astounding claim that, in a nation of three hundred MILLION people, the majority just happen to be driven by hate and greed - despite the fact that the country, relative to most other countries, seems to get along fairly well and hasn't imploded - is truly staggering. How can anyone be this dumb?

I assure everyone that decent Canadians are doing our best to educate people like featherlou and muffin, but some people are just born bad, and there's only so much you can do.
Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly are decent Canadians doing to educate people like me?

[Raygun99]

That being said, I think that America should apologize for Ann Coulter when Canada apologies for Celine Deion (or however that annoying bitch spells her name). Some might think that's a bit harsh, but I personally find both of the twats equally annoying.


There are 30 million of us. There are 300 million of you. Which country bought more of her records? If anything, you should be apologizing to us. I mean, if we had this magic "Make the Canadian stuff we want popular" wand, would the NHL be in such trouble? I think not.

[FinnAgain]

Muffin:

-Unilateralism is not evidence of hate, there's a difference between taking prudent action and being selfish. And, I will note, this cite has nothing to do with systemic problems with the United States as a nation, but problems with certian members of its current government. You should not conflate the two.

-Yes, the CIA has done some nasty, nasty stuff. And the OSA before them. But even when they did things that were motivated by pure hate and selfishness, the American people as a whole had no involvement.

(So if you want to make the case that American foreign policy has often been selfish and destructive, then I think you'd have a case. But the nation as a whole?

Anyways, onwards...

-Iraq wasn't driven by selfishness or hate. Maybe fear and gullibility coupled with...what Bush's true goals were.

And as the vocal notes of dissent on this board and other places might remind you, the nation as a whole most certainly does not, and did not, support Bush's regime or agenda.


Not willing to be bound by its own treaties or by WTO rulings:
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/eicb/softwood/what-en.asp

Pretty shitty ,eh?
Now tell me that part where I, or any significant protion of the nation, had a damn thing to do with that?

-Someone has to pay for universal health care. Some in America support it. Some do not. I don't think it's purely a matter of 'selfishness' either. Some folks probably just don't want to see government involved and would be happy to give to their local church.

-Kyoto, Mercury in the enviornment: stupid, stupid, stupid, shortsighted and stupid. And probably selfish too.
Unfortunately, I was never asked what the country should do, some folks in government just went n' did it.
Don't assume that the actions of a few in government are representative the nation as a whole.

-Ah. With the murder rate, you may be onto something. However, America might as well be a nation of pistol packing bar brawlers as hateful selfish folk if all we're looking at is murder. What we can say for sure is that for some reason or another, American society has violence in it.

-Prisons: Yep, we've not figured this whole 'rehabilitation' thing out. And we prosecute (and persecute) people for victimless crimes. We also all don't agree that the best way to limit crime is to fight poverty. See, the nation, as a nation, doesn't see things one-way-only.



Systemic and endemic racism as reflected in the grossly disproportionate incarceration of blacks at a rate six times higher than whites:
http://www.calyx.net/~schaffer/other/sp/abb.html

Careful with them systemic and endemic ajectives.
And, without knowing all the data, isn't it just possible that group X is actually commiting more crimes than group Y? (I'm not making any case for anything just now, just saying your conclusions are not supported by the data you've given)



Disenfranchisement of many convicts and in particular disproportional disenfranchisement of blacks:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0818/p02s01-usju.html

Disenfranchising convicts isn't selfish or hateful. It's essentially punishment for commiting crimes against society. Also note that not all states have permanent bans, because there is not one ruling view and ideology this nation.

-Death penalty is not selfish or hateful. I'd say that fear and ignorance were primarily at work, coupled with a desire for vengance.


State constitution sanctioned segregation (Alabama):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16443-2004Nov27.html

Ok, how many states is Alabama?
Is one state an entire nation?

-'Creationism' in the schools: Stupid, superstitious, hobbling, ridiculous, etc, etc, etc... not endorsed by all, not selfish or hateful, not indicitave of your claims.


Refusal to ratify UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women:
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/text/econvention.htm

Again, as a nation this wasn't an issue . You can't make any generalizations towards America's view of women with such sparse data.

-While I disagree with religion, the basis of a religious objection is faith, not selfishness and hate. I will also note, not all people in this nation agree with that particular faith.

-Likewise for gay marriage. Not everybody in the nation feels the same way.


Promotion of integration of church and state by diversion of federally financed social services into faith based organizations:
http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issues

Yes, a disturbing trend that many Americans object to. ~yawn~ Again, not indicitave of national bias.

See, Americans feel all sorts of different ways, and sometimes our government gets away with some pretty outrageous shit. But we don't get together and plot to... oh, wait... sorry, the local Patriarch just stopped by to ask me how I'm voting on all the planned Oppression Packages tm.Gotta run!

[Larry Mudd]

There are 30 million of us. There are 300 million of you. Which country bought more of her records? If anything, you should be apologizing to us.And buy more Holly Cole records! Sheesh!

I blame you guys for Rush, too. (Both of them!) :D

[duffer]

Well, Bare Naked Ladies are pretty frigging awesome. Give is more of that and we may, some day, in the very distant future, rethink our complete and total domination after the 3 minute invasion.












Maybe. But My Heart Will Go On (the reason she's such a big name here now [thanks teeny bopping little shits]) may forever be cause for our version of a fatwa. ;)

[Muffin]

Sorry, I had been going on the assumption that the US administration had been re-elected. Guess I was wrong.

[elucidator]

Oh, yeah, that overwhelming crushing avalanche of a landslide mandate. Half the country hates his guts, and the other half haven't caught on yet. Lot to be proud of, there.

[duffer]

Oh, yeah, that overwhelming crushing avalanche of a landslide mandate. Half the country hates his guts, and the other half haven't caught on yet. Lot to be proud of, there.

Show me where Clinton got even 50% of the vote in either of his elections. Bush was the first to gain a majority since GHW Bush. :rolleyes:

[Muffin]

And that's the key. Once you subtract those who opposed, those who had not caught on, and those who didn't vote, what were you left with? That's how some very nasty types, such as Coulter, are able to exert influence well beyond their numbers, and how some very unsavoury types such as Bush and Cheny are able to hold power.

[duffer]

And that's the key. Once you subtract those who opposed, those who had not caught on, and those who didn't vote, what were you left with? That's how some very nasty types, such as Coulter, are able to exert influence well beyond their numbers, and how some very unsavoury types such as Bush and Cheny are able to hold power.

Well, I've read some of High Crimes as well as Treason, though haven't finished either one yet. What impressed me in her books, as opposed to any serious attempt from the left, is her absolutely astounding reference cites. Seems she may know what she's talking about.

Whereas many on this board simply don't agree with her politics. Or are scared maybe she knows more about what she's talking about than Moore or Franken. Whatever the case is, it just looks like scared rhetoric from the left. Just my opinion and all, much like yours that Coulter is evil.

[Liberal]

Perhaps you can forgive me for thinking that aid to Israel, Egypt, Russia, Pakistan, and Jordan aren't exactly signs of our manifold generosity.Even if you were to include the private contributions that I cited, I don't think it constitutes "manifold generosity". Muffin said — without qualification of any kind — that the US is "a country driven by selfishness and hate". My response to him was not to assert that the US is maximally generous; my response was merely to prove his assertion false. Immediately thereafter, Featherlou opined that Muffin's false assertion applied to "most likely a majority of the people of the United States". It was the very essence of stupid, and I called her on it.

[duffer]

He's only one American. But seeing as he's probably the 4th most hated one because of his greed, (behind Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld) maybe some would like to check out this foundation (http://www.gatesfoundation.org/default.htm).

When you finish perusing the site, please come back and explain what parts of the charity are hurting those outside the US. (Based on whom it is, I'm sure there will be many to decry the foundation. Sometimes a guy just can't win.)

[gobear]

I certainly believe that at least 51% of the American voters support the routine torture of Iraqi civilians, unlimited American military adventurism with increasing numbers of dead and injured US soldiers, higher levels of pollution in air and water, the evasion of taxes by the rich, sharp restrictions to freedom of speech, and massive deficits that will cripple their children's economic future.

Actually, according to the "survey" that I saw, no they don't. They simply don't make the connection between these things and George Bush. I'm not defending that, just noting it.

It doesn't matter whether they made the connection or not--a vote for Bush is a vote for torture, plutocracy, and the continued downward spiral of the US economy.

[gobear]

IOW, I agree with some of our Canadian friends that there is something very wrong with our country.

[elucidator]

And this just in.....

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041208-122554-8534r.htm

There are those who insist that smart American travelers should stow their Yankee identity and simply pretend they're Canadians to ensure safe passage overseas.
New Mexico-based T-Shirt King, in fact, is offering a "Going Canadian" kit for $25 that includes a T-shirt emblazoned with the Canadian flag and the phrase "O Canada," a matching maple leaf patch for luggage, a window sticker, lapel pin and a little guide called "How to Speak Canadian, Eh?"

Of course, we're talking Washington Times here, but still....

[Evil Captor]

Show me where Clinton got even 50% of the vote in either of his elections. Bush was the first to gain a majority since GHW Bush. :rolleyes:

You calling 51% a landslide? A mandate? Look, this kind of stuff doesn't reflect credibly on your intelligence or your veracity. It's OK to say Bush won by a majority, but any attempt to cast it as anything other than a razor-thin, narrow majority is just bullshit and everyone is gonna see it that way.

[FinnAgain]

Sorry, I had been going on the assumption that the US administration had been re-elected. Guess I was wrong.

No, you are wrong in that you are attempting to turn Bush's win into some sweeping statement on the true nature of the nation as a whole.
Simply isn't justified.
Hell, your generalization isn't even justified about Bush supporters.

[FinnAgain]

IOW, I agree with some of our Canadian friends that there is something very wrong with our country.

I'd quibble with that.
There is something very wrong in our country, but there is not something wrong with our country.

[Maeglin]

Even if you were to include the private contributions that I cited, I don't think it constitutes "manifold generosity". Muffin said — without qualification of any kind — that the US is "a country driven by selfishness and hate". My response to him was not to assert that the US is maximally generous; my response was merely to prove his assertion false. Immediately thereafter, Featherlou opined that Muffin's false assertion applied to "most likely a majority of the people of the United States". It was the very essence of stupid, and I called her on it.

I would simply argue that noncomparative giving statistics do not necessarily disprove the assertion that the US is "a country driven by selfishness and hate", especially if US giving is disproportionally low and politically motivated. Of course, nothing Muffin said particularly proves his assertion, either. There are certainly US policy outcomes that appear to be greedy and hateful, but whether or not they were "driven" by it is a different order of claim altogether.

This seems out of place in a discussion like this, so I'll take your point and trouble you no further.

[Liberal]

You're no trouble, Maeglin. You and I are old-timers who go way back. If Featherlou's ridiculous accusation had not included the "majority of Americans", but only dwelled on government as you are doing, fair game. But the statistics show that almost 90% of US households contribute to charity. They donate billions of hours of volunteer work. And a huge amount of money is donated privately to foreign countries. How these people can be characterized as selfish and greedy is beyond bizarre.

[Cat Whisperer]

As my original assertion has generated animosity way out of proportion with my intent, please allow me to clarify some points.

When I referred to greed, I was referring to Capitalism. I thought that was obvious, but apparently not. I don't like Capitalism. I think it has caused a lot of damage.

I assumed that a majority of U.S. Citizens are Capitalists. If this assumption is wrong, please educate me.

I do not exclude Canada or Canadians from being motivated by Capitalism. In my opinion, it is a problem here too.

[Maeglin]

As my original assertion has generated animosity way out of proportion with my intent, please allow me to clarify some points.

When I referred to greed, I was referring to Capitalism. I thought that was obvious, but apparently not. I don't like Capitalism. I think it has caused a lot of damage.

I assumed that a majority of U.S. Citizens are Capitalists. If this assumption is wrong, please educate me.

I do not exclude Canada or Canadians from being motivated by Capitalism. In my opinion, it is a problem here too.

Just out off curiosity, what does one actually have to do to be a capitalist in your world?

[Evil Captor]

As my original assertion has generated animosity way out of proportion with my intent, please allow me to clarify some points.

When I referred to greed, I was referring to Capitalism. I thought that was obvious, but apparently not. I don't like Capitalism. I think it has caused a lot of damage.

I assumed that a majority of U.S. Citizens are Capitalists. If this assumption is wrong, please educate me.

I do not exclude Canada or Canadians from being motivated by Capitalism. In my opinion, it is a problem here too.

What you have to realize Featherlou is a lot of Dopers are not just capitalists, they're Free Market capitalists, who worship the Free Market with cultlike intensity. I mean, they'd cheer the Invisible Hand of the Marketplace even if they caught it strangling babies, um, red-handed. Gonna stir up some opposition when you challenge thier assumption that greed is good.

[Maeglin]

You're no trouble, Maeglin. You and I are old-timers who go way back. If Featherlou's ridiculous accusation had not included the "majority of Americans", but only dwelled on government as you are doing, fair game. But the statistics show that almost 90% of US households contribute to charity. They donate billions of hours of volunteer work. And a huge amount of money is donated privately to foreign countries. How these people can be characterized as selfish and greedy is beyond bizarre.

Fair enough. I see that your original response was to Muffin, however. Featherlou did not unload her assertion about the majority of Americans until after the fracas began.

I do, for the record, agree that the idea that a majority of Americans are somehow "motivated" by greed and hate to be absurd. The aggregation of the behavior of large numbers of well-meaning people often has outcomes that smack of hatred, greed, and absurdity, however.

[Evil Captor]

I do, for the record, agree that the idea that a majority of Americans are somehow "motivated" by greed and hate to be absurd. The aggregation of the behavior of large numbers of well-meaning people often has outcomes that smack of hatred, greed, and absurdity, however.

I don't find it absurd at all. Americans are generally a greedy bunch who love their material possessions and do ya think that stuff about gay marriage was about anything but hatred and bigotry?

Greed and bigotry as American traits ... yeah, works for me. We have other traits, too, but man, we gotta struggle with those two a lot.