New Battlestar Galactica series in January

[Hoops]

If I remember, the general SDMB response to the recent Battlestar Galactica miniseries on the Sci-Fi Network was surprisingly positive.

So I'm happy to report that the show has been converted (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/) into a series starring most (or for all I know, all) of the original (new miniseries) cast.

I have high hopes for this.

[SolGrundy]

[gay hijack]
They made Starbuck into a woman.

This is unacceptable.

I don't particularly care if "they handled it well" or "she's really good in the part" or "you'd be surprised, but it works" or "but she's a hot woman" [which she is, I'll grant] or any of that. It's just not something you do.

If you're a straight guy who grew up in the 70's: imagine if they made a new version of "Charlie's Angels" in which the angels were played by men. Or a new version of that Farrah Fawcett poster where it was a dude in that pose and smiling like that. Or a new "Dukes of Hazzard" movie where Daisy were played by one of the stars of all those teen soap operas on the WB. It's shudder-inducing, no? Now you can understand.
[/gay hijack]

[Baker]

I watched the pilot, expecting to find it crappy. I was truly surprised to find I liked it, changes notwithstanding. So I'll watch the series, and hope it does well, and keeps the tone it had, the harder edge.

[enigmatic]

We're three quarters of the way through the series here in the UK .

It's really really good.

[Finagle]

We're three quarters of the way through the series here in the UK .

It's really really good.


Which is really a surprise after the royal beatdown that the SciFi Channel gave to A Wizard of EarthSea.

[Zebra]

I've seen the first two episodes of the new series and they are really good. Better than the mini-series I think. In the mini-seires they were trying too hard. They had to define how each character was like and unlike their original series counterpart.

As for making Starbuck a woman, they did it to Boomer too and personally I'm glad the women in this series are more equal to the men. Cassie was a whore in the original series and suddenly turned into a nurse. Then when the men were sick and they had to train women to fly vipers and they treated the women so badly storywise in that episode that it makes me cringe.

[Ike Witt]

Or a new "Dukes of Hazzard" movie where Daisy were played by one of the stars of all those teen soap operas on the WB. It's shudder-inducing, no?

Isn't that exactly what is going to happen?

[msmith537]

[gay hijack]
Or a new "Dukes of Hazzard" movie where Daisy were played by one of the stars of all those teen soap operas on the WB. It's shudder-inducing, no? Now you can understand.


You mean as opposed to the current stars? Jessica Simpson, Jackass and Stifler?

[Paul in Qatar]

We have waited yarms for this new series.

[vivalostwages]

We have waited yarms for this new series.

I think you mean "yarens."

[Balduran]

I think you mean "yarens."
[ubergeek]yahrens[/ug]

[Zebra]

Frack!

[Malodorous]

Which is really a surprise after the royal beatdown that the SciFi Channel gave to A Wizard of EarthSea.

I watched several of SciFi's original miniseries (Galactica, Dune, Earthsea) and Galactica was the only one that was watchable (and in fact pretty good). I think they should stick to revamping cheesy scifi series and books like Galactica (Buck Roger's springs to mind, but no doubt there is no shortage of old cheesy TV series from the post StarWars period that had some good ideas that could be harvested) instead of beloved classics like Dune and Earthsea. They seem to get intimidated or something when they go after the classics, and the result is flat and disappointing.

I'm looking forward to Galactica, especially with the dearth of good scifi series lately.

[Tangent]

They've been running a LOT of commercials for this thing on SciFi for the past couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to it, but I missed the miniseries back when it was on. Are they going to replay it before the regular series begins?

[Lobsang]

moar Grace Park .

neeed drool smiley.

[mbh]

In order to play the role of Starbuck, a thespian must do four things:

1. Drink heartily.
2. Smoke heavily.
3. Gamble recklessly.
4. Have sex with every beautiful woman who crosses Starbuck's path.

I wouldn't mind seeing a woman play that role. ;)

[LeRoi Lezard]

I'll try to watch it, but I don't have as much of a problem with recasting women in the guy roles as I do with changing the Cylons into humans. I'll really miss the red dots moving side-to-side, the glowy brains of the "smart" ones, and that inflection-free "By your command"...

[Malodorous]

I'll try to watch it, but I don't have as much of a problem with recasting women in the guy roles as I do with changing the Cylons into humans. I'll really miss the red dots moving side-to-side, the glowy brains of the "smart" ones, and that inflection-free "By your command"...

They kept those Cylons, didn't they. They were shown in the first scene of the miniseries as I recall, they appeared to be servants or footsoldiers or something to the human-ceylons.

Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me?

[LeRoi Lezard]

They kept those Cylons, didn't they. They were shown in the first scene of the miniseries as I recall, they appeared to be servants or footsoldiers or something to the human-ceylons.

Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me?

If they kept them, then I am much relieved!

[thwartme]

Hey!

Is this going to be like this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=293217) where we pretend we haven't seen these before...?

Just kidding. I've managed to stay current on this series so far, and it rocks.

Tangent , the DVD of the mini-series comes out just after Christmas. Definitely worth the rent, IMHO. I'll probably actually shell out the bucks and buy the thing.

thwartme

[Tangent]

cool, thanks for the info thwart

[MacTech]

[ubergeek]yahrens[/ug]

funny, i thought it was arns...

[edwino]

They kept those Cylons, didn't they. They were shown in the first scene of the miniseries as I recall, they appeared to be servants or footsoldiers or something to the human-ceylons.

Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me?IIRC, the premise of the show is that the humans beat the TV show Cylons many years in the past. The Cylons were beat and humanity rebuilt. The Galactica was a relic from that time, filled with old-school tech and served as kind of a military museum.

Unfortunately, when humanity rebuilt, the Cylons were working on a plan. They came up with human-Cylons as an upgrade, then infiltrated the rebuilding humans. This allowed them access at all levels, including the top of the defense programs, and allowed them to attack humanity in an undetected fashion. You know, that one dude who designed all of the stuff with the Cylon girlfriend.

Only the old tech stuff, like the Galactica, was able to survive. All of the rest of humanity was torched.

[Odinoneeye]

Actually, the human cyclons appeared in the original series.

At least in Galactica 1980. Which I do beleive some people place in the whole "Nope, never happened, didn't see it" category.

[Lumpy]

In the Galactica 1980 series (how I hate having to even admit it exists), the humanoid Cylons were androids: human in external appearence but basicly machinery inside. In the new series they're something much more sinister. They're pseudo-humans: genetically created lifeforms that are physically human but have Cylon thought processes hardwired into their brains. They're AIs made of meat instead of metal. And judging by what's happening to Gaius Baltar, the Cylons are working on extending themselves into regular humans as well.
There's just one thing I don't know about. In the new series FTL travel is based on hyperspace jumping. So I don't see how they can follow the format of "fight Cylon patrols and then run away before reenforcements arrive". With hyperspace jumping reenforcements are minutes away. If the Cylons ever find the human refugees, they're dead.

[Paul in Qatar]

Most importantly, they lower the FX budget all to heck.

[SolGrundy]

You mean as opposed to the current stars? Jessica Simpson, Jackass and Stifler?
Sorry, I meant if they cast one of the male stars of the WB as Daisy. See, because when I was little I had a big TV crush on Starbuck, even though most of my guy friends had a crush on Daisy Duke, which was different, because... ah, never mind.

I've heard the new series is good. I'll check it out.

[levdrakon]

If they were going to recast male characters as female characters, then in all fairness they should recast female characters as male. Therefore, for this show to gain any respect from me at all, they better give Apollo a boyfriend.

[vivalostwages]

[ubergeek]yahrens[/ug]

Wow! I will now pay tribute to this ubergeek!

[Hail Ants]

I'm really looking forward to the new series because the pilot/miniseries wasn't just good, it was phenomenally good! Really original and, more important, decidedly adult!

The way the Cylons didn't just attack the human homeworlds, they nuked them! The way, after tugging your heart strings with Mary McDonald talking to that little girl refugee, having to leave them behind to be killed (and hearing one of them say over the radio, "may you all burn in hell")! And especially the way Number 6, after being fascinated by the human baby, just freakin' kills it! :eek:

It was about 1000 times better than Enterprise (which I still watch anyway). And it was about a million times better than the original Galactica which, let's face it, sucked.

Ok, sucked is too strong a word. But the show only was what it was, namely a really, really, REALLY goofy kid's show. I watched it every week and liked it, but I was 12!

There are many words to describe über-producer Glen Larson, but original or adult aren't two. Galactica was as silly & campy as Knight Rider...

[Baker]

They've been running a LOT of commercials for this thing on SciFi for the past couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to it, but I missed the miniseries back when it was on. Are they going to replay it before the regular series begins?

I saw the pilot, but I also have been wondering if they are going to rerun it. I didn't before because I was so sceptical. Afterwards, when I realized how much I liked it I was kicking myself.

[carnivorousplant]

It was about 1000 times better than Enterprise

Don't be silly. Did you see the last two arcs?


And it was about a million times better than the original Galactica

My friend, I Love Lucy was a million times better than Battlestar Ponderosa.

[Hälge]

This series is great. I saw episode 9 'Secrets and Lies' the other day and it is my favourite so far. Gaius Baltar is soo awesome a character. Then there is the general distrust and the paranoia and lies. And what the :confused: is the Cylons planning?

I do not think even the most hardcore fan of the original series will be dissapointed.

[GIGObuster]

My friend, I Love Lucy was a million times better than Battlestar Ponderosa.
Or, as the humor magazine "Crazy" called it then: Cattlecar Galactica!

[murky]

add me to the list of eager Battlenerds. I've been hearing some great reviews from buddies across the pond and I really liked the mini-series.

For whoever asked, NBC aired the mini-series (though edited down) a few weeks ago. You can also buy/rent it if you like. It was nice to be able to get back up to speed to prep for the premiere.

[Evil Captor]

I, for one, salute our new cliche filled alien overlords!

[Cliffy]

Are they going to replay [the miniseries] before the regular series begins?

Yes. The miniseries is scheduled to rerun Wednesday 1/12 at 7:00 PM and 1/16 at 3:00 PM. Also the first half only is scheduled for Tuesday 1/11 at 9:00 PM, so you could watch two hours on both Tues and Wed starting at 9:00. (All times Eastern.)

I know a guy who works at Sci-Fi and has seen most episodes. He says it's really good. (And he has been honest about stuff he doesn't like, so he's trustworthy.)

--Cliffy

[Crusoe]

It is very good. Good use of special effects, but not over-use, and a slightly more believable air. Only two more episodes to go here, I believe.

[Kaitlyn]

They made Starbuck into a woman.

This is unacceptable.

I don't particularly care if "they handled it well" or "she's really good in the part" or "you'd be surprised, but it works" or "but she's a hot woman" [which she is, I'll grant] or any of that. It's just not something you do.



I with you on this. A man should stay a man.

[John Mace]

I was wondering when they'd get around to serializing this. I really liked the pilot and am looking forward to the new epsiodes.

Does anyone have a link to the CS thread where we critiqued the pilot? I did a search, but came up empty handed.

[Broomstick]

I with you on this. A man should stay a man.
Uh... Kaitlyn.... :dubious:

Aren't you the New Boomer look-alike?

[Kaitlyn]

Uh... Kaitlyn.... :dubious:

Aren't you the New Boomer look-alike?

You think I want two of me running around? Besides, you've got it backwards; the new Boomer is a Kaitlyn lookalike.

[carnivorousplant]

New Boomer look-alike?

Do we have a look-alike for every cast member? For every TV series? Is there a Woody Allen look-alike? A Cecil look-alike?
Is this an official Dope thing or just this forum?

[Neurotik]

Uh... Kaitlyn.... :dubious:

Aren't you the New Boomer look-alike?
Even more freaky, she used to be Number six. :eek:

[Enola Straight]

I suppose the battlestar fleet will initiate a Blade Runner Commission: these Humanoid Cylons are practically identical to Replicants.

[Broomstick]

Even more freaky, she used to be Number six. :eek:
I guess they decided to download here into a different, not identical, body.

All of which is consistent with her being a Cylon agent :D

[FordPrefect]

"but she's a hot woman" [which she is, I'll grant] or any of that.

She's fracking hot. But not as hot as Number 6. My mouth drops everytime she is on screen.

[BrotherCadfael]

And judging by what's happening to Gaius Baltar, the Cylons are working on extending themselves into regular humans as well.Actually, it looked to me more like Baltar wanted to extend himself into Number 6!



Actually, come to think of it, I'd like to do that myself...

[levdrakon]

It was a cool first episode. I'm really glad Helo is still alive.

[msmith537]

It certainly is a lot more intense than most sci-fi out there.


Note to cinematographer: There are other shots besides "snap zoom".

[levdrakon]

It certainly is a lot more intense than most sci-fi out there.


Note to cinematographer: There are other shots besides "snap zoom".

What is "snap zoom?"

[msmith537]

What is "snap zoom?"


Most of the external action shots are made to look like they are taken by a guy in a space suit who suddenly zooms in on some bit of the action. It has the effect of making the scene very dynamic and pulls you into the action, but like any camera effect ("bullet" time, Saving Private Ryan cam, motion blur, lens flair, etc) too much can get annoying.

[Hypno-Toad]

The snap zoom is cool in moderation. But it becomes tiresome very quickly.

Am I nuts, or did I see Richard Hatch in the series trailer after the show? After hearing him, in person, decrying the show and calling sci-fi all sorts of bad things, I choked when I saw him jumping on the band wagon.

[Larry Borgia]

Please forgive my slowness, but I'm still not sure what "snap zoom" means. Are you talking about those shots where they'll be slowly panning across the fleet and then the camera will zoom in really fast?

Also count me in with those who like the show. Best damn sci-fi I've seen in a long time. I like the space battles. They're still pretty unrealistic--they have to be for entertainments sake--but I like that the ships use maneuvering rockets rather than banking, and the noises are at least muted, as if to say "Look, guys, we know there isn't any sound in space but we need some for dramatic effect so we'll compromise by making them quiet.

[Kaitlyn]

Do we have a look-alike for every cast member? For every TV series? Is there a Woody Allen look-alike? A Cecil look-alike?
Is this an official Dope thing or just this forum?

My wife has Hoshi Sato from Enterprise covered.

[msmith537]

Please forgive my slowness, but I'm still not sure what "snap zoom" means. Are you talking about those shots where they'll be slowly panning across the fleet and then the camera will zoom in really fast?


Exactly. And the picture will wobble slightly as if being taken by a handheld camera (even though it's all CGI). In general, I do like the almost documentary style of the new series.

I don't really care about how "realistic" the space battles are (since we don't have space battles in real life who knows really) as long as they look cool.

"33" was a pretty intense if somewhat unrealistic concept (five days without sleep? FTL "jumps" seem pretty involved to happen every 33 minutes for 5 days straight, the crew can't sleep in shifts?)

"water" was also good but most of the story driving plot elements don't make sense (When Boomer goes "Cylon" why wouldn't she cover her tracks so she doesn't freak herself out or bring attention to herself? Isn't water recycled aboard ship? Why would it matter if they shower or whatever since it just goes back into the system, not flushed out to space)



Starbuck kinda looks like a girl from my high school I hooked up with.

[Crusoe]

The snap zoom is cool in moderation. But it becomes tiresome very quickly.

Am I nuts, or did I see Richard Hatch in the series trailer after the show? After hearing him, in person, decrying the show and calling sci-fi all sorts of bad things, I choked when I saw him jumping on the band wagon.
Yes. He's in it:
He plays Tom Zarek, a terrorist-turned-political-opposition leader, and has had a major role in at least two episodes - a hostage crisis on a prison ship and an election to challenge the President.

[El_Kabong]

Liked the pilot enormously when it was first shown, and the series seems likely to follow on well. Best SF on TV since Firefly, IMO. What really seems to make the show for me, as opposed to its original incarnation, is the palpable sense of loss, desperation and fear as these remnants of a civilization try to escape their merciless enemy. I'm also intrigued by the whole idea that the Cylons seem to have developed a belief system and that they are somehow carrying out God's will by exterminating humanity. I'm very curious where the writers are going to go with that one.

And then, speaking as a guy, there's the indisputable fact that both Boomer and Number Six are absolutely smokin' hot.

Dang, uh, I'll be in my bunk.

[msmith537]

And then, speaking as a guy, there's the indisputable fact that both Boomer and Number Six are absolutely smokin' hot.



No kidding. How does Baltar get anything done? I would just sit in my cabin all day gettin my frack on with my new imaginary friend



I like how in the the "making of" show beforehand Edward James Olmos said that "they will NEVER find Earth".

Could you imagine? President of USA - "We have ecountered human-like aliens who have made incredible advancements in the fields of punch-cards and Expo dry-erase markers".

[El_Kabong]

No kidding. How does Baltar get anything done? I would just sit in my cabin all day gettin my frack on with my new imaginary friend

Which reminds me, I thought that was a pretty clever bit in "33" where Six's avatar expresses surprise over how easily Baltar multitasks, immediately following which Baltar answers both her and the President's next two or three questions with the same words.

[Shirley Ujest]

Will the beginning of this series be re-aired.

I've caught part of #2 and a little bit of #3. I don't have a TV guide and, surprisingly enough, do not live for the boob tube, but this show and The Apprentice are about the only two things of interest lately.

[Malodorous]

And then, speaking as a guy, there's the indisputable fact that both Boomer and Number Six are absolutely smokin' hot.

Yeah, I'd doom humanity to nuclear destruction at the hands of cold merciless robots for a date with #6 anyday.

I also liked how both of the episodes had a sort of theme going on between the name of the episode, the plot and the visuals. "Water" started with the guy left on the planet being chased in the rain, then went to Boomer waking up in her cabin dripping wet, etc. "33" kept showing all the different clocks ticking down to 33 minutes.

My only complaint was the same as mssmith, that whatevers going on with Boomer in "water" doesn't make a lot of sense.

Will the beginning of this series be re-aired. Sci-Fi almost alway reairs thier in house stuff several times after they first show it, so I'm sure they'll play it several more times this week.

[Lumpy]

the humanoid Cylons say that when their bodies are destroyed their minds are just transferred to a new body. What if they believe that, but it isn't true?I'll bet "God" is the master intelligence that controls all the Cylons. Imperious Leader anyone?

[The Asbestos Mango]

"water" was also good but most of the story driving plot elements don't make sense (When Boomer goes "Cylon" why wouldn't she cover her tracks so she doesn't freak herself out or bring attention to herself? Isn't water recycled aboard ship? Why would it matter if they shower or whatever since it just goes back into the system, not flushed out to space)





I'm going to take a crack at this. I think Galactica Boomer may be a product of defective programming. Did you get that bit in the cockpit where she sees "positive contact" or whatever on her screen on the search for water, and tells her copilot that it's negative, then, on a feeling, re-checks, then has to struggle to "see" what's on the screen in front of her?

Also, the Galactica recycles its water, but many of the civilian ships, which weren't designed for long journeys, don't, and apparently rely on the Galactica to do it for them. So, that wasn't just the Galactica's water that got boiled off into space.

[Master Wang-Ka]

It's spelled "yahrons."

Saw it on Lorne Greene's log in an episode of the original series, when he was dictating it to the machine.

:D

[Mr. Excellent]

"Look, guys, we know there isn't any sound in space but we need some for dramatic effect so we'll compromise by making them quiet.

I have the miniseries on DVD, and the commentary says pretty much exactly that. :)

[Mr. Excellent]

No kidding. How does Baltar get anything done? I would just sit in my cabin all day gettin my frack on with my new imaginary friend


I think that's sort of the point. Not so much the "getting my frack on" thing, but that Six is trying to keep Baltar distracted and off-balance, so he's dependent on her for decision-making.

[carnivorousplant]

What units were they measuring water in?

[Evil Captor]

What units were they measuring water in?

gahlons.


Sorry, couldn't resist.

[msmith537]

WTF. Why is it that profanities and units of measure never translate to English (or Rigilian which by coincidence is exactly the same)?

I don't know what the point is with Six and Baltar. He seems like a pretty mediocre supergenius (as in I haven't seen any brilliant insight from him) and Six doesn't seem to want to do anything with him but make out and torment.


All in all it's a decent show though. Few sci-fi shows really give any kind of realistic portrayal of what future warfare might be like. They always get so overwhelmed by the spectacle of futuristic machinery battling that you don't usually care about the folks piloting it. Let's hope the show doesn't go on any crazy tangents like super-kids or God-beings.

[Tangent]

I don't know what the point is with Six and Baltar. He seems like a pretty mediocre supergenius (as in I haven't seen any brilliant insight from him)

I think that may be the point. Baltar isn't a supergenius. He gained a big reputation as a programming expert based on work that was actually being fed to him by Number Six--who, of course, was using him to implement the Cylons' plans. Now everyone on Galactica is expecting genius-type solutions from him and he is afraid of being exposed as a fraud. So he'll keep turning to Number Six for help and she'll have him in the palm of her hand.


I'd like to be in the palm of her hand.


I'll be in my bunk.

[levdrakon]

Which reminds me, I thought that was a pretty clever bit in "33" where Six's avatar expresses surprise over how easily Baltar multitasks, immediately following which Baltar answers both her and the President's next two or three questions with the same words.

I liked that too. I'm looking forward to Baltar further impressing me.

[Maus Magill]

I'm going to take a crack at this. Also, the Galactica recycles its water, but many of the civilian ships, which weren't designed for long journeys, don't, and apparently rely on the Galactica to do it for them. So, that wasn't just the Galactica's water that got boiled off into space.


Also with a big, fracking hole in the side of the tanks, any water that is recycled will boil off into space.

[The Asbestos Mango]

Also with a big, fracking hole in the side of the tanks, any water that is recycled will boil off into space.
Well, I think it's a pretty safe assumption that they would have repaired the big, fracking hole before they attempted to recycle any more water

[ExTank]

Put me down as a convert; I was struck by the many stylistic similarities to Firefly

What I liked most about "33" was in one of their opening scenes, when Starbuck was wondering, "Why 33? Why not 32, or 34?"

Just 'cause. Maybe the Cylon jump drives need 33 minutes to recharge; maybe they need 33 minutes to calculate the Galactica's position from her jump vector, and then plot their own pursuit vector; maybe they calculate that 33 minutes is just enough time for the humans to begin to relax before getting all wired up again for battle, thus preying upon them psychologically to maximum effect.

Or maybe none of the above. Just 'cause.

I'm going to borrow the mini-series (on DVD) from a friend and check it out.

[MEBuckner]

Science geek nitpick: Water's not that uncommon, cosmically speaking. Obviously Earth has loads of it, but there's also water ice on Mars, water in the rings of Saturn, water on many outer moons (including maybe buried oceans on Europa that could be more extensive than our own), and of course lots and lots of comets. Naturally, I'm assuming they have some kind of purification sytems; I mean, geez, they have star travel, so they ought to be able to purify methane-covered hunks of ice (http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMBQO71Y3E_index_0.html).

That said, damn, but this is a hell of a gritty, hardcore show. The original series was pretty wussy compared to this.

[El_Kabong]

What I liked most about "33" was in one of their opening scenes, when Starbuck was wondering, "Why 33? Why not 32, or 34?"

Because the Cylons are fond of Rolling Rock beer?

[Malodorous]

I'm going to take a crack at this. I think Galactica Boomer may be a product of defective programming. Did you get that bit in the cockpit where she sees "positive contact" or whatever on her screen on the search for water, and tells her copilot that it's negative, then, on a feeling, re-checks, then has to struggle to "see" what's on the screen in front of her?



Yeah, that was my take on it to, they seem to be heading towards a conflict between the programing of the human boomer that wants to hepl the Galactica and the Boomer-bot program that wants to screw the humans over. My problem with this are that 1) Its not very original and 2) You would think that the Ceylons, as a race of machines, could program a flawless sleeper agent. Ah well, we'll see.


I think that's sort of the point. Not so much the "getting my frack on" thing, but that Six is trying to keep Baltar distracted and off-balance, so he's dependent on her for decision-making.

I think that may be the point. Baltar isn't a supergenius. He gained a big reputation as a programming expert based on work that was actually being fed to him by Number Six--who, of course, was using him to implement the Cylons' plans. Now everyone on Galactica is expecting genius-type solutions from him and he is afraid of being exposed as a fraud. So he'll keep turning to Number Six for help and she'll have him in the palm of her hand.


It has been a year since I watched the pilot, but I'm pretty sure my impression was that the #6 Baltar sees after the destruction of the colonies is in a delusion. (If I was responsible for the destruction of the human race, I'd be cracking up to) After all, if it was the real #6 communicating with him, I'd presume that she could either use him to find out where the Galactica was (since she seems to be aware of what he sees and hears), or use the same technology to communicate with the Boomer-Bot and find out where they are that way.

Also notice that #6 never actually tells Baltar anything he doesn't already know. Further evidence that she's not a seperate entity.

[Balduran]

It's spelled "yahrons."

Saw it on Lorne Greene's log in an episode of the original series, when he was dictating it to the machine.

:D
" ... One nerd to rule them all ..."

Google only produces 9 hits for yahrons but thousands for yahrens. I'm assuming it was a bug in their tanslation software. ;)

Anyway, new series is using our time measurements. Seems the only term to survive is frak.

[ElvisL1ves]

I'm pretty sure my impression was that the #6 Baltar sees after the destruction of the colonies is in a delusion.She told Balter she'd implanted a chip in his brain, containing her consciousness, and can communicate with him any time. Also, previews of upcoming episodes show her actually appearing corporeally, where the other humans can see her.

Why 33 minutes? Why the war? The Cylons are taking their revenge against the inferior race that had enslaved and then defeated them, cold, protracted, and sweet. They want to toy with the humans before killing them. I do hope we hear more about their religion.

As for the BoomerBot and her erratic behavior, #6 has been erratic, too. The Cylons have intelligence equivalent to humans', and apparently some emotionality as well. If BoomerBot is a sleeper agent, a large distance from the (presumed) collective mind, its control over her may be incomplete. And, speaking of her, how did their come to be 2 Boomers with two scout ships? We know the (or is it a) BoomerBot flew one back to Galactica with refugees, but there's one on the surface of Caprica where the human (AFAWK) Boomer took it.

[carnivorousplant]

[spoiler]how did their come to be 2 Boomers with two scout ships? We know the (or is it a) BoomerBot flew one back to Galactica with refugees, but there's one on the surface of Caprica where the human (AFAWK) Boomer took it.

Maybe one is a Boomerbot and one is Boomer.

[levdrakon]

Maybe one is a Boomerbot and one is Boomer.

Now that would be very interesting. Do the Cylons replace a human with a duplicate, and dispose of the human, or have these infiltrators always been Cylons? In that case, how long? Since childhood?

[Malodorous]

She told Balter she'd implanted a chip in his brain, containing her consciousness, and can communicate with him any time. Also, previews of upcoming episodes show her actually appearing corporeally, where the other humans can see her.


[quote]That's it And, speaking of her, how did their come to be 2 Boomers with two scout ships? We know the (or is it a) BoomerBot flew one back to Galactica with refugees, but there's one on the surface of Caprica where the human (AFAWK) Boomer took it.

I don't think there is a human Boomer. The Ceylons only have 12 models, it didn't sound like they could wip up a new one to look like already existing Galactica personal at a moments notice, presumably the one that has served on Galactica was raised to think she was a human, but was Ceylon all the time. The one on Caprica is presumably a Ceylon of the same model pretending to be the Galactica Boomer to gain the confidence of the officer stranded there for neferious purposes. As for where they got the second shuttle, they ceylons had just conquered all of the human worlds, presumably they found an identical scout ship lying around after the dust had cleared.

[Baker]

Nitpick:

It wasn't Starbuck who was speculating about "Why 33 minutes", it was another female crewmember, whose name I don't know.

[Maus Magill]

Well, I think it's a pretty safe assumption that they would have repaired the big, fracking hole before they attempted to recycle any more water

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
They were conserving water, (avoiding the showers; not washing hands, etc.) while there was the big, fracking hole in the tanks. I would assume they would start recycling water as soon as the hole were repaired.

[The Asbestos Mango]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
They were conserving water, (avoiding the showers; not washing hands, etc.) while there was the big, fracking hole in the tanks. I would assume they would start recycling water as soon as the hole were repaired.
Well, fixing the holes would not have been an instantaneous thing, and probably a bit of a trick in space. So, definitely they would have to conserve until the tanks were fixed. Plus, given the amount of water that was lost, there simply might not have been enough left in the tanks to accomodate bathing/showering and still have enough for everyone to drink. The water most likely would have to be collected in tanks prior to recycling, and the recycling process probably takes a certain amount of time. So water used for bathing purposes is water that may be unavailable for drinking for several hours or a day or so. Also, a certain amount of water is going to be lost to evaporation, and even if you minimize this by taking fracking cold showers so you don't lose it as steam, multiply whatever fraction of an ounce that's going to remain trapped in a person's hair, wind up absorbed in the towel he/she dries off with, etc., multiply that by something in the neighborhood of fifty thousand people, then you're talking about some serious water loss.

[carnivorousplant]

Why are you guys putting speculations in spoiler boxes?

[levdrakon]

Why are you guys putting speculations in spoiler boxes?

Thank you! No reason why we can't openly discuss how we think they handle water recycling/ship repairs.

[CarnalK]

Note to Canadians:

The Space channel is reshowing it today at 6:00 EST (at least in my, Ottawa, region). I'll probably rewatch to get the nuances. This isn't the first time they've showed episode 101 though is it? Didn't they show it after the last time they showed the tv-movie premier?


You know I'm not much of a patritotic guy but when I see Six was born in Alberta and Boomer got her start on the CBC, my "heart" swells with "pride". ;) But I note it's being filmed mainly in Vancouver (though obviously mainly soundstage) so no surprise they went with local hot babes, Olmos is the name recognition.

[FinnAgain]

I know this is a hijack and I'm sorry, but I missed the mini-series when it first debuted on scifi. And today I missed it again. Does anybody know when next it'll be on, I can't seem to find it on the schedule.

Or, would it be out at Blockbuster yet?

[FinnAgain]

Oh, and, I grew up on Babylon 5, this show is absolutely hands down superior. I love the visuals and the acting, and I am definitely considering picking the whole thing up on DVD once I've got some free cash.

[silenus]

You know I'm not much of a patritotic guy but when I see Six was born in Alberta and Boomer got her start on the CBC, my "heart" swells with "pride". ;)

It ain't my heart that's swelling. But I'm proud of it nonetheless. 6 is my new favorite number. :D

[msmith537]

Why 33 minutes?


I would imagine that it takes them exactly 33 minutes to fix on their position. Being machines, it is always the same amount of time.


The question is why can't there be more than a dozen different models? I can imagine over a dozen variations of just the metal Cylons for various purposes. They can't they have 100 different #6s or Boomers with slightly different hair or coloring or noses?

[SCSimmons]

Also, a certain amount of water is going to be lost to evaporation, and even if you minimize this by taking fracking cold showers so you don't lose it as steam, multiply whatever fraction of an ounce that's going to remain trapped in a person's hair, wind up absorbed in the towel he/she dries off with, etc., multiply that by something in the neighborhood of fifty thousand people, then you're talking about some serious water loss.

Evaporate to where? The ship is a closed system-even water that evaporates into its internal atmosphere would be able to be eventually collected. (Probably big dehumidifiers in the ventilation systems.)

[silenus]

The question is why can't there be more than a dozen different models? I can imagine over a dozen variations of just the metal Cylons for various purposes. They can't they have 100 different #6s or Boomers with slightly different hair or coloring or noses?

Maybe 12 is a mystical number for the Cylons? I'm sure there a plot twist coming down the pike that involves this.

[HPL]

Exactly. And the picture will wobble slightly as if being taken by a handheld camera (even though it's all CGI). In general, I do like the almost documentary style of the new series.

I don't really care about how "realistic" the space battles are (since we don't have space battles in real life who knows really) as long as they look cool.

"33" was a pretty intense if somewhat unrealistic concept (five days without sleep? FTL "jumps" seem pretty involved to happen every 33 minutes for 5 days straight, the crew can't sleep in shifts?)


That's what bugged me. Obviously the Galatica is very much the equilvent of a late 20th century US Aircraft Carrier(but with more guns and an FTL drive). But isn't it standred procedure in Navies to have at least 2 shifts to avoid that sort of burn out?

And another thing........when "33" starts, apparently they've been without sleep for 130 or so hours and then Adama orders them to be put on Stimulents. If that's so, exactly HOW have they been staying awake for this long? Even with Stimulents it's going to be rather tough to stay awake that long.

[silenus]

Have they ever explained why a FTL ship has chairs and lamps that look like they were taken from a 1960's classroom? :D

[carnivorousplant]

chairs and lamps that look like they were taken from a 1960's classroom? :D

And what's with smoking, books and wearing glasses?
Even (ahem) Star Trek and left those behind unless you were allergic to Retinox (TM)

[HPL]

And what's with smoking, books and wearing glasses?
Even (ahem) Star Trek and left those behind unless you were allergic to Retinox (TM)

I'm kind of glad. The last thing I want this thing to be like is "Star Trek".

And I'd take a book over a stupid little PADD anyday.

The only thing that seems wierd is the smoking, since I don't think you're allowed to smoke in the US military.

But then again, maybe Adama won't let the "TRUTH" kids on his ship, and they figure that fighter pilots are much more likely to die in combat then from lung cancer.

[carnivorousplant]

And I'd take a book over a stupid little PADD anyday.
The only thing that seems wierd is the smoking, since I don't think you're allowed to smoke in the US military.


In the thousand years or so in the future (time enough for Earth to be a fairy tale) I'd expect E-Books to win out over paper. Maybe they've cured cancer, but it seems as though laser surgery or implanted contacts or cloned eyeballs or fetal tissue would have replaced glasses.

[MEBuckner]

But isn't it standred procedure in Navies to have at least 2 shifts to avoid that sort of burn out?
I was thinking that too. But Galactica was an obsolete ship, about to be decomissioned and turned into an educational museum, after that one last ceremonial fly-by from a squadron of Vipers. It might very well just have a skeleton crew aboard, enough to run all the ship's systems, but not enough to pull shifts and run everything around the clock.

[silenus]

I believe Adama said something to that effect...that there weren't enough people (crew) on board for shifts. Or he implied it, at least.

[HPL]

In the thousand years or so in the future (time enough for Earth to be a fairy tale) I'd expect E-Books to win out over paper. Maybe they've cured cancer, but it seems as though laser surgery or implanted contacts or cloned eyeballs or fetal tissue would have replaced glasses.

They haven't cured cancer. The President has it.

When I went in for Laser Surgery, I was told that when you get to a certain age, it doesn't help because your eyes are starting to naturally get worse anyway. Adama is getting up in years, so perhaps he's past the age that it can help, and since he's near retirement age, maybe he doesn't care about the glasses.

As for the e-books, again, Adama seems to perfer everything to be lower tech(remember, they use phones with cords), so having a whole case of books makes a lot of sense.

And again, sometimes you just want to hold something in your hands when you read. Be it a stack of documents rather then a game boy. I love wikipedia as a source, but I frequently print long articles off to read them at my leasure. I use flat-screen moniters all the time, but trying to read too much on the screen causes an "Eye glaze" effect.

And frankly, it looks like they were going for the "Somewhat low-tech" look. Late 20th century warship in Space. A number of clocks in "33" were the old fansioned kind. The ships use missles and projectile weapons(which I rather appreciated. One gets sick of lasers after a while). No shields, big dirty nukes.

It's basically a mirror of the late 20th/early 21st century in space. Don't try to look much farther then that. If they were trying to make it HARD SCIFI, space combat wouldn't have a WW2ish feel to it.

[HPL]

I was thinking that too. But Galactica was an obsolete ship, about to be decomissioned and turned into an educational museum, after that one last ceremonial fly-by from a squadron of Vipers. It might very well just have a skeleton crew aboard, enough to run all the ship's systems, but not enough to pull shifts and run everything around the clock.

I had forgotton about that. It would also explain why the small arms lockers aren't guarded either.

[carnivorousplant]

They haven't cured cancer. The President has it.
I forgot. Good point, well taken.


When I went in for Laser Surgery,
It's a thousand years later, Dude.


As for the e-books, again, Adama seems to perfer everything to be lower tech(remember, they use phones with cords), so having a whole case of books makes a lot of sense.

Low tech is from the Cylon wars of many years ago. The modern ships were defeated because they used computers Baltar's stuff could flumux.

And again, sometimes you just want to hold something in your hands when you read.
[quote] Yeah, you and me both, but we are talking a long time later.


[QUOTE=HPL]
And frankly, it looks like they were going for the "Somewhat low-tech" look.
Again, that's because the Cylons (sp) could screw with their computers and Galactica is old stuff about to be retired.

[Declan]

Oh, and, I grew up on Babylon 5, this show is absolutely hands down superior. I love the visuals and the acting, and I am definitely considering picking the whole thing up on DVD once I've got some free cash.


I would hope that its superior ,and from the mini series that I seen , it rocked. But its been over 5 years since midnight on the firing line came out ,and longer since the original babylon five pilot movie came out. Time marches on. Babylon Five proved you did not have to accomodate the lowest common denominator , when you make a sci/fi show.

Battlestar G will get kudos from all sorts of people , but I am confident that its genesis in Babylon 5 is going to be mentioned alot.

Declan

[Kamino Neko]

As for the e-books, again, Adama seems to perfer everything to be lower tech

There's no preference. It's neccessity. The Cylons knocked out the higher technology.

And what's this 'thousands of years in the future' stuff? There's no indication in the show - which still refers to the 12 Colonies of Kobol - that it's changed that aspect of the canon - that Earth is another colony, not their place of origin.

[FinnAgain]

I would hope that its superior ,and from the mini series that I seen , it rocked. But its been over 5 years since midnight on the firing line came out ,and longer since the original babylon five pilot movie came out. Time marches on. Babylon Five proved you did not have to accomodate the lowest common denominator , when you make a sci/fi show.
Battlestar G will get kudos from all sorts of people , but I am confident that its genesis in Babylon 5 is going to be mentioned alot.
Declan

Don't get me wrong. Bab 5 was a good series, if cheesy sometimes (sweedish meatballs indeed).
This show, from what I've seen, just blows it the hell away.

[HPL]

Low tech is from the Cylon wars of many years ago. The modern ships were defeated because they used computers Baltar's stuff could flumux.

Again, that's because the Cylons (sp) could screw with their computers and Galactica is old stuff about to be retired.

But it's more or less a justification to make it WW2ish, Late 20th century military in space. They could have made it all shiney and star treky(and maybe the other battlestars are) but

The colonies timeline has nothing to do with our. Earth is a legend and probably doesn't even exist in the Current BSG universe. There is no foundation for "Thousands of years" in regards to any technology.

[HPL]

There's no preference. It's neccessity. The Cylons knocked out the higher technology.
.

But he also refused to upgrade long after the Cylon war had ended. And frankly, there's really no particular reason to not upgrade the clocks to digital or make the phones cordless.if you're worried about the cylons,

It seems Adama more or less likes things the old way.

[carnivorousplant]

Earth is another colony, not their place of origin.

That's silly. Earth was where they came from in the first series.

[Kamino Neko]

But he also refused to upgrade long after the Cylon war had ended.

Well, I got the impression that the Galactica wasn't upgraded because a) there were newer Battlestars built, and b) it was peacetime, so keeping the old ships up to date wasn't as big a deal.

Eh, you might be right, though.

[HPL]

That's silly. Earth was where they came from in the first series.

I don't remember the begining of the first series, but in this one, all the colonies(including "Earth") were colonized from the home of "Kobol" wherever that is and for whatever reason they left it.

[Kamino Neko]

I don't remember the begining of the first series, but in this one, all the colonies(including "Earth") were colonized from the home of "Kobol" wherever that is and for whatever reason they left it.

That's how it was in the first series. The 13 Colonies were colonised from Kobol.

See here. (http://www.kobol.com/archives/BG-FAQ.html#E4)

And when the Galactica finally found Earth, it was the year 1980, FTR.

[HPL]

That's how it was in the first series. The 13 Colonies were colonised from Kobol.

See here. (http://www.kobol.com/archives/BG-FAQ.html#E4)

And when the Galactica finally found Earth, it was the year 1980, FTR.

Actually, it was 1969, per the last episode of the original series(unless I remember wrong).

There was no discovery of Earth in 1980.

[HPL]

Okay, I may have been wrong about that.

I was under the impression they were in the Solar System(I remembered seeing Jupitor) when the Apollo 11 footage is seen......but apparetnly that wasn't the case.

[Kamino Neko]

Okay, I may have been wrong about that.

I was under the impression they were in the Solar System(I remembered seeing Jupitor) when the Apollo 11 footage is seen......but apparetnly that wasn't the case.

Heh...here I thought you were just denying the existance of Galactica 1980, and was formulating my reply based on that. ;)

[HPL]

Heh...here I thought you were just denying the existance of Galactica 1980, and was formulating my reply based on that. ;)

Actually, I oriignally did, but then read the FAQ and noticed the possible 11 year transmission time for that signal.

Galactica 1980? What do you mean? :)

[FinnAgain]

Gods, I'm really enjoying the storytelling value and the philosophical overtones and implications. This is a scifi series for adults, and it's damn good.

[Baker]

I don't remember the begining of the first series, but in this one, all the colonies(including "Earth") were colonized from the home of "Kobol" wherever that is and for whatever reason they left it.

Also, Earth was specifically mentioned as a thirteenth colony in the mini-series. Near the end, at the mass funeral, Adama pretends that directions to Earth have been a closely guarded secret, so that the people have something to live for. He even asks Elosha, the priest, "Don't the Sacred Scrolls speak ofa thirteenth colony, Earth?" and she confirms it, saying how another group of colonists from Kobol went there. Most folks believe Earth to be a legend, as does Adama himself, but he thinks that believing in, and searching for it, will give purpose to the people's lives. The President is no fool, and, in a private conversation with Adama, told him why she was sure he was lying, saying "They'll never forgive you", but agreed to keep the secret.

[levdrakon]

That's what bugged me. Obviously the Galatica is very much the equilvent of a late 20th century US Aircraft Carrier(but with more guns and an FTL drive). But isn't it standred procedure in Navies to have at least 2 shifts to avoid that sort of burn out?

And another thing........when "33" starts, apparently they've been without sleep for 130 or so hours and then Adama orders them to be put on Stimulents. If that's so, exactly HOW have they been staying awake for this long? Even with Stimulents it's going to be rather tough to stay awake that long.

Under normal, routine operations, you don't have all your fighters launching every 33 minutes, nor do you have your main guns firing every 33 minutes. Those things require crews, so essentially you've got all your people going, 24/7. I'm sure people were taking cat naps as often as they could. I'd guess on the civilian ships, a lot of the people were just sleeping through the whole thing.

Have they ever explained why a FTL ship has chairs and lamps that look like they were taken from a 1960's classroom?

I'd guess for the same reason you find that stuff on today's military bases. We spend the big bucks on new weapons, and scrimp on soldiers' amenities.

And frankly, it looks like they were going for the "Somewhat low-tech" look. Late 20th century warship in Space. A number of clocks in "33" were the old fansioned kind. The ships use missles and projectile weapons(which I rather appreciated. One gets sick of lasers after a while). No shields, big dirty nukes.


Yeah, I think that's the feel they were going for. They are basically us, with the convenient addition of FTL and the blasters on the fighters.

Didn't they mention that the original Battlestars were built so old fashioned because during the first Cylon war there was concern they could infiltrate anything computerized? They purposely went for the old fashioned wired phones, etc. It's kinda like the Russian Navy. Sure you could build new stuff, but we need it to actually work, with a minimum of maintenance.

[ElvisL1ves]

all the colonies(including "Earth") were colonized from the home of "Kobol" wherever that is and for whatever reason they left it.So all the hominid fossils on Earth were planted as part of a coverup story in which our Kobolian ancestry was hidden and eventually forgotten. Got it. :)

In the pilot, Adama tells SecEd Robson, just before the decommissioning ceremony, that a lot of people had lost their lives on Galactica in the earlier war because the computers had been networked, and he would never permit them to be renetworked as long as he was in command.

The question is why can't there be more than a dozen different models?Number Six didn't tell Baltar there couldn't be, only that there weren't.

[Debaser]

Can somebody explain what has aired for the show so far? I'm a bit confused.

I saw a two hour special where they introduce the cast and the Cylons blow up the colonies. It ends with the armada fleeing off into space. This aired a year or so ago and then again recently. Is this what people mean by the "mini-series" or the "pilot" or both?

(One two hour show is not what I would consider a mini-series. Shogun was a mini-series. :))

Now the series is already into it's second episode? When's it on? They have ads for it but they just say to "check your local listings". Very annoying.

Oh, and to all those who proclaim that this is better than B5. Don't forget Space: Above and Beyond. That looked good too, but within a few episodes it started sucking hard. I can definately see Battlestar heading in that direction.

[BrotherCadfael]

The miniseries was a four-hour deal, spread over two nights. Pretty brief for a "miniseries", but it technically qualifies.

[msmith537]

Oh, and to all those who proclaim that this is better than B5. Don't forget Space: Above and Beyond. That looked good too, but within a few episodes it started sucking hard. I can definately see Battlestar heading in that direction.


Space: Above and Beyond was like a crappy Starship Troopers meets a crappy Battlestar Galactica.

I can kind of see BG fall into the trap of running out of bad guys after a few episodes. The problem is that you basically have a couple of story arcs with the Galactica and it's fleet escaping the Cylons. Once those get resolved (and they must at some point otherwise it will be like "why can't they destroy this one stupid ship?") then what drives the story? Traveling through the galaxy helping strange creatures? Then it's Star Trek Voyager.



"Actually, it was 1969, per the last episode of the original series(unless I remember wrong). "

If memory serves me, they picked up a transmission of the moon landing (1969?). That transmission would have been traveling at the speed of light so I guess that places them (11 years - whatever time elapsed between the end of season 1 and Galactica 1980) light years from Earth.


Debaser - It was actually was a 2 x 2 hour miniseries that aired last year.

[WotNot]

I can kind of see BG fall into the trap of running out of bad guys after a few episodes. The problem is that you basically have a couple of story arcs with the Galactica and it's fleet escaping the Cylons. Once those get resolved (and they must at some point otherwise it will be like "why can't they destroy this one stupid ship?") then what drives the story? Traveling through the galaxy helping strange creatures? Then it's Star Trek Voyager.

I was expecting BG to settle into a formula after the first couple of episodes. We've seen eleven so far in the UK, and no formula-settling appears to be taking place. No drop-off in quality apparent either. I'd say more, but I don't want to spoil it for you.

[Finagle]

It was actually was a 2 x 2 hour miniseries that aired last year.


Someone needs to explain to me the SciFi Channels business plan for mini-series. They seem to stick to four hour series (Peacekeeper Wars, EarthSea, etc...) and instead of milking them for four concurrent weeks (which is what I understand a miniseries to be), they run them in two hour blocks on two concurrent nights (and then rerun them to death for the next week or two).

It's a really strange model because it uses up their fresh content very quickly.

[levdrakon]

Heh...here I thought you were just denying the existance of Galactica 1980, and was formulating my reply based on that. ;)

What is this Galactica 1980, of which you speak?

[silenus]

I was under the impression they were in the Solar System(I remembered seeing Jupitor) when the Apollo 11 footage is seen......but apparetnly that wasn't the case.

Nope, it wasn't Jupiter. They were just moseying along in interstellar space. Apollo had been hanging out in an old observation dome, looking at the stars and playing around with old equipment. Sheba comes to get him for a party, and they chat briefly about what Earth might be like. As they leave, a piece of equipment starts making noise, but they don't hear it because the hatch is open and they are right over the engines. As they shut the hatch and leave, we see footage from Apollo 11 as it lands, and hear "Tranquillity Base here. The Eagle has landed." Roll credits.

I'm such a geek to know that off of the top of my pointy little head. :D

[Munch]

And it should also be pointed out that it was at least suggested that the Apollo transmission was thousands of years old in that last episode. A very bittersweet ending.

[bump]

That's what bugged me. Obviously the Galatica is very much the equilvent of a late 20th century US Aircraft Carrier(but with more guns and an FTL drive). But isn't it standred procedure in Navies to have at least 2 shifts to avoid that sort of burn out?


Yeah, during normal operations. But when the ships are at General Quarters, all hands are at their battle stations, which may or may not correspond to their everyday job. In other words, clerks may be ammunition passers, bakers and cooks may be damage control men, etc...

With attacks coming for sure every 33 minutes, they probably didn't bother to secure from general quarters until it was over (when they set "Condition 2"). Skeleton crew or not, everyone'd have been at general quarters for that whole time.

I do agree that I'd have thought that they'd have come up with some kind of alternative battle stations of some kind though, if they'd gone that long without a rest.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

I saw it for the first time, Sunday.

I was determined not to like it, as I felt there were too many changes, & regretted that there were no cameos from the original cast.


But, I do like it, very much.

I'm pleased that the series is turning out the way it has. :)

I was wrong earlier...this is good science fiction.

[silenus]

Bosda, wait until next week. A familiar face will appear.

(Well, not Face, of course. :D )

[Ponder Stibbons]

I also saw "33" and "Water" for the first time Sunday and was suitably impressed. While it had a few minor "plot holes" (5 days of no sleep?), what show doesn't? Yea, I think you can count me in as a regular.

Still not as good as Firefly, though.

[Munch]

(5 days of no sleep?),
I think this needs more clarification. I was under the same impression from the "dateline" at the beginning of the episode, but they later showed Adama and Tigh discussing whose turn it was to catch some shut eye. Obviously, they were getting some incremental bits of sleep, which with the help of stims* makes that 5 days entirely plausible.

*Note that not just the pilots were using stims, but that the pilots were required to use stims.

[Snickers]

Count me in as one of the likers, too. But here's the thing I can't get around - when did humans get so *stoopid*? Wouldn't you think that any normal commander would at least try to engineer shifts of some kind, even if he is working with a skeleton crew? I would think you'd be able to reduce or eliminate some sort of work entirely when you're in such a situation and cobble together some sort of shift so that people could get rest. Obviously, availability and training is a factor, but I think you'd try something.

Another - why wait the entire 33 minutes? Why wait for the Cylons to show up? Or as soon as they do, jump. Say you have your computers timed for 33 minutes, 5 seconds. Make it all automatic - you don't need to send out your fighters and take some hits every time. Weirdos.

Finally, wouldn't you think you'd be looking for some sort of tracers after the first coupla jumps? It's obvious you're being tracked if they find you every 33 minutes. It's not a coincidence. Wouldn't you think you'd be scanning for transmissions or interrogating moles or something? I realize you're dealing with a lot of ships and civilians, but please. I really don't think that Cylons would be able to figure out a likely plot of where you're going when you jump based on vectors - it's not like there's any indication. They're just gone, poof. So c'mon, start looking for the moles, idiots.

But other than that sort of general stupidity, I'm enjoying it. And hopefully you guys can give me something I haven't thought of so that I can excuse what I'm seeing.

[carnivorousplant]

why wait the entire 33 minutes?

I figure it takes longer than 33 minutes to be able to jump again.

[Munch]

Wouldn't you think that any normal commander would at least try to engineer shifts of some kind, even if he is working with a skeleton crew? I would think you'd be able to reduce or eliminate some sort of work entirely when you're in such a situation and cobble together some sort of shift so that people could get rest. Obviously, availability and training is a factor, but I think you'd try something.
Over the course of 5 frantic days? I doubt it. But again, I think people are overinflating the "5 days with no sleep" angle. We say Adama and Tigh discussing sleep shifts, we saw the President's aide's love interest on some down time waiting in line with other military folks to transmit a message (and how dumb of an idea is that?!?), and Boomer and the Chief (what's his name?) getting it on in the supply room on some down time. Plus, there's stims.

Another - why wait the entire 33 minutes? Why wait for the Cylons to show up?
I'd hate to run my staff ragged calculating and making jumps every 20 minutes if it turns out we lost the Cylons 18 jumps ago.

Or as soon as they do, jump. Say you have your computers timed for 33 minutes, 5 seconds. Make it all automatic - you don't need to send out your fighters and take some hits every time. Weirdos.
Completely agree. What in the world were fighters doing out there?!? It hasn't been shown that a Viper can take out a small armada of Cylons - the only circumstances I would send out the couple dozen or so Vipers the Gallactica has has on hand. Are they engaging combat just for the sake of engagement? First sign of Cylons - jump. Period. Having Vipers out in the open only delays that jump until everyone is recalled.

Finally, wouldn't you think you'd be looking for some sort of tracers after the first coupla jumps? ... [etc.]
Other than interrogating for moles, I'd suspect that that's exactly what was going on. And Adama's splitting the fleet up into separate groups on the jump was a decent first attempt to try to single out any possible transmitting source - a bit late, but you gotta start somewhere. I doubt they'd have been able to find anything though, it's not like the Cylons are going to be transmitting on a tech the humans had developed.

As for moles, I'd tend to think that would be impossible. There's 50,000 people spread out over several dozen ships, many of whom are vital to their ship's operation. Then consider that there's probably not an established intelligence system in place (what, you think the Secretary of Education is going to escort an FBI around with her?), and very little paperwork and background on the vast majority of these people. It'd take weeks to even know where to start on something like that.

[ElvisL1ves]

It isn't necessarily stupidity you're seeing. The Cylons are thinking beings, with a huge amount of sadism (cf. #6 killing the baby in the marketplace just out of curiosity about its neck strength) and desire for revenge. Remember too that the humans had no idea how long the attacks would last, for how many cycles, only that they'd die if they didn't keep up.

The humans certainly did have a catnap/stimulants system set up, at least on Galactica, and presumably the order would have been sent to the fleet as well.

Why 33 minutes between attacks? My guess was that a jump takes just slightly longer than that to set up, perhaps to recharge the system. Remember Adama asking the jump officer to set up the first, long one? The guy hesitated a long moment, and then started furiously at work. The Cylons would have known how long it took, and timed their attacks to cause the maximum panic and exhaustion among the humans. They could exterminate the race immediately, but where would be the fun (or the series) in that?

As for communications, the Cylons obviously have a method the humans aren't aware of or can't detect. Remember #6 talking to the Big Giant Head? If Galactica had known there were transmissions from the Olympic Carrier, well, you know. Speaking of that ship, Stands With A Fist's little talk about how a President cannot admit major mistakes in public but must always remember them in private was well-timed, eh what?

[Lumpy]

Re. the manpower shortage, Boomer was complaining about the half-qualified replacement she was teamed with. I think they dredged every person they could from the fleet who could take over a vital job, and it still wasn't enough.

[Priam]

Also I'd keep in mind some facts:

1) Galactica has very basic computers. Automation is almost completely out of the question, therefore one must assume that every human is necessary for vital duties. It also means that they are jumping by hand calculations across huge and only roughly explored distances. Given that and the amount of double-checking I'd want done, 33 minutes is an insanely short time.

2) It wasn't just Galactica jumping but a huge convoy of other defenseless ships. I would imagine the Vipers were launched to act as a mobile screen for the civilians as they jumped out. Further, Galactica is forced to stay for every civilian hiccup and breakdown because losing even one other ship is eating into what is suddenly a non-replenishable resource: people. You can't just cut and run at the first sign of trouble.

3) With all this rushing around, there's going to be very little time to get everyone together and start an in-depth investigation into how the Cylons are tracking them. There were some plans mentioned to experiment and divide the fleet up to get a better idea of how they were being followed.

[HPL]

Not to mention the fact that Balter was talking about the resources and people needed to actually detect cylons. Add to this the fact that they're trying to keep the "Cylons look like Humans" thing under wraps as much as possible, which limits how many people they can have doing the screening. Not to mention the fact that everyone invovled in doing the test must definatly be human, because the last thing you want or need is some Cylon agent getting ahold of test results and "altering" them to implicate the wrong people.

[carnivorousplant]

1) jumping by hand calculations

It was said in the miniseries that they don't have computers communicating with each other; that's so the Cylons couldn't use them. They have computers to do calculations, but they aren't networked. Perhaps one has to copy the results of the calculation to a disk and carry it to another computer. A sneaker net. :)

I agree with you on 2) and 3).

[MaddyStrut]

It seemed that 33 minutes was pushing the minimum limit of time to make a jump. The president's ship was having trouble with their systems during the first jump and nearly didn't get out in time. So I can see why they wouldn't be able to jump earlier and why they'd want the fighters out there (to squeeze out a bit more time for the ships having trouble).

As to the sleep in shifts thing, I got the impression (though I could be wrong) that the ships and crew weren't used to making such frequent jumps, so stuff was breaking down from overuse, and they needed everyone on hand working on keeping it all running. They were probably pretty strapped for human resources with planning jumps in the minimum time and fixing everything. As for the passengers and non essential personnel looking haggard, I'd have a damn hard time sleeping if I knew the cylons could nuke me in a half hour! The stress alone would keep me awake till I fell over.

Also, it seemed to me that the humans were acting out of panic, desparation, and tiredness. They weren't thinking at their best and probably weren't making the best tactical decisions. So they were just jumping along, trying to stay one step ahead of the cylons but not really knowing what to do. I'd kind of like it if the Galactica group turns out to be more human and fallible in their tactical decision making than a lot of the Sci Fi shows with super genius crews.

The part I don't understand is the Olympic Carrier thing. If it was being tracked by the cylons all along, why did they give it away by holding that ship back? If it wasn't being tracked till after it got left behind, why couldn't the cylons continue to find the Galactica after the OC got shot down? The only thing I can think of is that it was being tracked all along though no one on board knew it. Then (lucky for the humans) the OC did have mechanical problems as they said. So the cylons had the bad luck of seeing their only tracker ship break down, and they left it alone hoping it could get repaired. However, even if that were the case, I don't know why the cylons jumped in right away after another 33 minutes went by. They should have waited a day or so to let the humans think that it wasn't the Olympic Carrier that was being tracked. Then they could have jumped in and taken everyone by surprise.

[ElvisL1ves]

Olympic Carrier had someone aboard who had figured out there was a Cylon spy tracking them, and desperately wanted to tell the President in person. Maybe he'd convinced their captain to do something different as a check, without communicating that to Galactica to protect the rest of the fleet, or perhaps to deliberately delay the jump to see if the Cylons would attack it or let it alone - that goes along with the Cylons being out to simply torment the humans for awhile, not exterminate them.

[HPL]

The part I don't understand is the Olympic Carrier thing. If it was being tracked by the cylons all along, why did they give it away by holding that ship back? If it wasn't being tracked till after it got left behind, why couldn't the cylons continue to find the Galactica after the OC got shot down? The only thing I can think of is that it was being tracked all along though no one on board knew it. Then (lucky for the humans) the OC did have mechanical problems as they said. So the cylons had the bad luck of seeing their only tracker ship break down, and they left it alone hoping it could get repaired. However, even if that were the case, I don't know why the cylons jumped in right away after another 33 minutes went by. They should have waited a day or so to let the humans think that it wasn't the Olympic Carrier that was being tracked. Then they could have jumped in and taken everyone by surprise.

It looks like after the OC came back, it was now completely under cylon control(or had cylon pilot and nothing else besides the nukes). The OC breaking down and not making the jump was bad luck, and no doubt they realized that the jig was up if the returned undamaged after several hours, so they stuffed it with nukes and tried to make a kamikaze run for the galactica(Probably after boarding and wiping out the crew and passangers).

It obviously wasn't left alone, considering it

1.) Was now carrying nukes(wereas it apparently wasn't before).
2.) Apparently had nobody on board(at least not at the windows)
3.) The fact that it repeatdly failed to stop after mutiple warnings to do so(if I had shots being fired across my bow, I'd sure as hell heave to if I didn't want to be blow out to the sky).
4.) It appeared to be making a full speed run for the Galactica.

[Balduran]

II'd kind of like it if the Galactica group turns out to be more human and fallible in their tactical decision making than a lot of the Sci Fi shows with super genius crews.

The part I don't understand is the Olympic Carrier thing. If it was being tracked by the cylons all along, why did they give it away by holding that ship back? If it wasn't being tracked till after it got left behind, why couldn't the cylons continue to find the Galactica after the OC got shot down? The only thing I can think of is that it was being tracked all along though no one on board knew it. Then (lucky for the humans) the OC did have mechanical problems as they said. So the cylons had the bad luck of seeing their only tracker ship break down, and they left it alone hoping it could get repaired. However, even if that were the case, I don't know why the cylons jumped in right away after another 33 minutes went by. They should have waited a day or so to let the humans think that it wasn't the Olympic Carrier that was being tracked. Then they could have jumped in and taken everyone by surprise.

Yeah, I like that they aren't star-trek level geniuses either. I also like that none of the decisions made so far have been easy or clean.

I also think it was just dumb luck that the OC was the one to break down. I don't think there was a mole onboard or the Cylons would have had an opportunity to get the next jump coordinates, so the ship must have simply been tracked. My guesses as to why they didn't wait:

a) They figured the Humans would examine the OC's FTL drive to make sure it didn't break down again after rejoining the fleet and discover the tracker.

b) After the humans onboard the OC didn't make the jump and the Cylons stayed with them but didn't shoot, they figured out they were the ones being tracked. Therefore, to stop those humans reporting it when they rejoined the fleet, they had to be exterminated. Of course, after extermination and rejoining the fleet, the Humans would shortly discover that the OC was empty.

[CarnalK]

ElvisL1ves :
Olympic Carrier had someone aboard who had figured out there was a Cylon spy tracking them, and desperately wanted to tell the President in person. Maybe he'd convinced their captain to do something different as a check, without communicating that to Galactica to protect the rest of the fleet, or perhaps to deliberately delay the jump to see if the Cylons would attack it or let it alone - that goes along with the Cylons being out to simply torment the humans for awhile, not exterminate them.

The whole thing could have been a preprogrammed ruse- just a delaying tactic to get close enough to set off the nukes. They would have known the humans would be suspicious- acknowledge that and try and play on it.

[BrotherCadfael]

Bosda, wait until next week. A familiar face will appear.

(Well, not Face, of course. :D )Special Guest Appearence by Lorne Greene as Commander Adama's father???

[ElvisL1ves]

The humans will never know for sure what happened on Olympic Carrier, and therefore neither will we viewers. But that's part of the attraction of the show - not every loose end is wrapped up neatly in the last few minutes, followed by a group hug. We viewers have to slog along just like the survivors.

[FinnAgain]

I was under the impression that it was just dumb luck that the OC got left behind. I've also assumed the the Cylons were making an honest effort to eliminate the humans, it's God's will after all...

The way I saw it, the Cylons had some sort of bug on the OC, and when it didn't jump they realized its use would be at an end. So they slaughtered the crew, maybe set it up with a human-lookin'-Cylon as pilot, and strapped a nuke to it. My guess is that their hope was the fleet would let the OC close, and then, blam!

[HPL]

The humans will never know for sure what happened on Olympic Carrier, and therefore neither will we viewers. But that's part of the attraction of the show - not every loose end is wrapped up neatly in the last few minutes, followed by a group hug. We viewers have to slog along just like the survivors.

Actually I felt it was rather open and shut case that the OC needed to be destoryed.

The fact it managed to remain in Cylon Occupied space for that long without being destroyed, and suddenly reappearing just smells of a trojan horse. The nukes and the refusal to heave to cliched it.

The only question is wether there were any civies on board the OC at all, but in any case, there's very little doubt in my mind that destroying it was the right call.

[FinnAgain]

I'd have to agree... I didn't grok why the President carried around the index card with the OC on it to remind her of a mistake. What mistake? The Cylons captured the OC, loaded a nuke on it, and tried to ram the Galactica. Pretty clear cut case of self defense in my mind.

[silenus]

The nukes prove it was a trap. Why the President and Apollo feel any remorse or regret for this is puzzling. There wasn't anybody on board alive, as far as they know, and it was something that had to be done. Blowing it away wasn't a mistake, so get over it, you two!

[FinnAgain]

There wasn't anybody on board alive, as far as they know,

Just a slight nitpick, but I think that it wasn't a question of not having evidence that anybody was alive... I figured that not being able to see a single person in the windows was proof that there weren't any people on the ship anymore. In this case it's not a question of 'absence of evidence is not...'

If the crew was still on the ship they would've been visible. Since they weren't, they weren't there.

[HPL]

Special Guest Appearence by Lorne Greene as Commander Adama's father???

Best. Death. Ever!

Oh, wait.......

[Kamino Neko]

The only question is wether there were any civies on board the OC at all

Extremely doubtful. There's only two reasons to leave any alive - to have them visible to try to keep the Galactica crew and Viper pilots from realising something's up - which they clearly didn't do, is not possible unless they managed to quietly replace all key members of the crew and even if they had leaves too many people to figure out something's up and tell the Galactica, or try to stop them - or because it was too much trouble to wipe them all out - which has the same problems.

[Priam]

I think all of you are taking the objective perspective on this. Yes logically we can say that no one would be alive after the Cylons took the ship... but what if? They're emotionally involved in the faces and names that they might have killed, though they didn't let that stop them from making the tough decision.

[The Long Road]

It is still reasonable for them to feel regret and question their actions, even if they were correct. Doubt about the action will always be present. Did I do the right thing? Could I have done something else instead?

I'm guessing the Boomerbot with Helo was put in place to hunt down resistance groups. Should be interesting. Nice touch adding that storyline. Let's you know what happened on the colony worlds after the war. The survivors of the attack died of radiation and the few remaining were hunted down. The original series never made mention of their fate.

As for the 33 minutes, the XO makes the comment, "24 jumps? Our people are busting their humps calculating 1 jump every 33 minutes". So it looked to me like the reason was simply the time it took to calculate a new jump. The cylons would have to get the signal from their tracing device and then calculate the correct jump coords to intercept.

[levdrakon]

2) It wasn't just Galactica jumping but a huge convoy of other defenseless ships. I would imagine the Vipers were launched to act as a mobile screen for the civilians as they jumped out. Further, Galactica is forced to stay for every civilian hiccup and breakdown because losing even one other ship is eating into what is suddenly a non-replenishable resource: people. You can't just cut and run at the first sign of trouble.

Yes. Not every ship can jump as quickly as the Galactica can, and the Galactica has to wait until every ship has jumped.

[El_Kabong]

I'd have to agree... I didn't grok why the President carried around the index card with the OC on it to remind her of a mistake. What mistake? The Cylons captured the OC, loaded a nuke on it, and tried to ram the Galactica. Pretty clear cut case of self defense in my mind.

Although I don't think it was explained all that clearly, I believe the mistake was that of Galactica to initially notice that the Olympic Carrier was unable to make its last jump and thus leave it behind to fall into Cylon hands. Remember Adama chewing out the young female communications officer who was tasked with keeping a running tally of the civilian ships? Galactica apparently was supposed to be the last to jump, so that it could keep some sort of defensive screen up till the civvie fleet had left the area. The officer miscounted, and wasn't aware of it till Galactica had reached its next waypoint.

Of course, there probably wouldn't have been much they could do to save it anyway, but still...

[FinnAgain]

I think all of you are taking the objective perspective on this. Yes logically we can say that no one would be alive after the Cylons took the ship... but what if? They're emotionally involved in the faces and names that they might have killed, though they didn't let that stop them from making the tough decision.

I suppose that this is one of the ethical issues which the show attempts to tackle, but to me the decision is clear and pragmatic. Maybe I'm just talking as a Gothamite... but to my mind, the episode echoed 9/11 a bit. A civilian transport hijacked and flown with murderous intent.

I assumed that the Galactica wouldn't have had time to board the OC and disable it before being rammed, or that they Cylons would blow the nuke should any rescue attempt be made. In my mind, the civilians were already dead, and saving more lives was at issue.

Just my take.

[levdrakon]

In my mind, the civilians were already dead, and saving more lives was at issue.

Just my take.

That's probably about right. I don't understand why President-Shakes-Fist needed to put that slip of paper in her pocket, or imply that Apollo should. It wasn't a mistake.

[ExTank]

C'Mon, there's only, what, 49,000 or so free humans left? After how many billions died during the initial Cylon attack?

Of course there's going to be doubts and angst over destroying a civillian transport, even if they are 99% sure it was a Cylon Death Trap. But Apollo should get over it; it's all well and good for the civillian leadership to moan and wail and decry the horribleness of it all; it's what we generally elect them to do (along with the odd decision, here and there).

But the soldier's gotta suck it up and drive on; too much emotional baggage gets in the way of the tactical decision loop, causes hesitation, and that causes even more deaths.

[FinnAgain]

C'Mon, there's only, what, 49,000 or so free humans left? After how many billions died during the initial Cylon attack?

Point. Every life has a greater importance as evinced by the president's board o' survival. Still... I'd expect that nearly being wiped out as a species would also instill some good ol' fashioned pragmatism.


Of course there's going to be doubts and angst over destroying a civillian transport, even if they are 99% sure it was a Cylon Death Trap.

100% sure. There was a nuke.

[Tangent]

I don't understand why President-Shakes-Fist needed to put that slip of paper in her pocket,

That's President "Stands With A Fist"

:)

[ExTank]

Which is why Apollo's reaction kinda bugged me; I mean, if he was any closer to the OC, he could've read the in-flight magazines tucked into the back of the passenger seats on the OC, and he saw an empty ship.

Had I been the writer, I would've played it defferently.

The President has doubts and anguish, but Apollo is confident, and has no remorse, leading to sparks and tension between civillian leadership and military, at a time they need it the least.

[Priam]

I suppose that this is one of the ethical issues which the show attempts to tackle, but to me the decision is clear and pragmatic. Maybe I'm just talking as a Gothamite... but to my mind, the episode echoed 9/11 a bit. A civilian transport hijacked and flown with murderous intent.

I assumed that the Galactica wouldn't have had time to board the OC and disable it before being rammed, or that they Cylons would blow the nuke should any rescue attempt be made. In my mind, the civilians were already dead, and saving more lives was at issue.

Just my take.

That just means its an easy decision to make. You don't have to spend very long to come to the obvious conclusion and no one really did. Yes there was some hesitation, but within a minute the call was made even by the President. The decision is the easy part.

It's easy to look at your grandmother as a complete vegetable on life support with near-nil chances of ever reviving or, even should that miracle happen, ever really enjoying life again and come to the decision that it's time to pull the plug. That's an easy decision because you can be 99% you're doing the right thing. Doesn't mean you won't feel incredible regrets afterward even knowing the stone cold facts.

[carnivorousplant]

But the soldier's gotta suck it up and drive on.
Was it determined if the rumor of pilots returning from bombing retreating Iraqis in the first Gulf War was UL or not?

[ExTank]

Rephrase the question, please.

[FinnAgain]

That's an easy decision because you can be 99% you're doing the right thing. Doesn't mean you won't feel incredible regrets afterward even knowing the stone cold facts.

I guess I just don't grok this. It wasn't 99%, it was 100% of a real live nuke. As such it is elevated, in my mind, to kill-or-be-killed. In such a circumstance, I don't see a moral objection to survival. Not that I don't undestand worrying or wondering. "But what if we could have saved them? But what if it was a sensor glitch? But what if..."

But unless the series is 'lying' to us, there was a Cylon nuke on the OC. No doubt. Clear cut case of survival, in my book.

[carnivorousplant]

Rephrase the question, please.

It was reported during the First Gulf War.
Retreating Iraqis had hostages and loot with them. The air force destroyed them.
Pilots were supposedly crying when they landed.
I seem to recall recently that this was not true.

I was wondering how real pilots would feel about possibly killing people on the Galactic Carrier.

[Priam]

I guess I just don't grok this. It wasn't 99%, it was 100% of a real live nuke. As such it is elevated, in my mind, to kill-or-be-killed. In such a circumstance, I don't see a moral objection to survival. Not that I don't undestand worrying or wondering. "But what if we could have saved them? But what if it was a sensor glitch? But what if..."

But unless the series is 'lying' to us, there was a Cylon nuke on the OC. No doubt. Clear cut case of survival, in my book.

See you seem to be misunderstanding my take on this. We're not talking in logic or facts but rather the fuzzier realm of the heart. In moments like that you make the call for the good of everyone, because it is a clear cut case of survival. That doesn't mean you can't have regrets about being the one who had to make it... it just means you can know they're irrational. There's the regret that you couldn't think of another way. There's the regret that you were put in the situation. There's the regret that you'll never even know whether even one person was left hiding inside and was killed by your rounds.

Guilt is not, and never has been, about logic. Logic is simply used by guilt when it's handy and, much of the time, we carry even irrational guilt on our backs through our entire lives. Knowing in the head isn't equivalent to knowing in the heart.

[ExTank]

It was reported during the First Gulf War.
Retreating Iraqis had hostages and loot with them. The air force destroyed them.
Pilots were supposedly crying when they landed.
I seem to recall recently that this was not true.

I was wondering how real pilots would feel about possibly killing people on the Galactic Carrier.

First I've heard of it. I have no information on which to comment, one way or the other.

Sorry if I sound like a Military Civilian Liaison Officer. :)

My unit fired up plenty of retreating Iraqis, with, to my knowledge, zero regret. The way to not get shot was to either don't shoot at us, or to throw down arms and reach for the sky.

If I were in Apollo's shoe's, and saw what he saw through the Olympic Carrier's windows, I would have no regret.

[CarnalK]

Gotta agree with ExTank. It's not like the ships in the convoy have extra space on board- if he didn't see people at the windows this was clearly at trap.

Though if I had been the Cyclons I would have maybe left a bunch of humans alive for effect (after a quick labotomy). But I suppose they didn't think an actual eyeball would get on the ship's windows.

[bump]

It was reported during the First Gulf War.
Retreating Iraqis had hostages and loot with them. The air force destroyed them.
Pilots were supposedly crying when they landed.
I seem to recall recently that this was not true.

I was wondering how real pilots would feel about possibly killing people on the Galactic Carrier.


You're probably thinking of the "Highway of Death" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Death) between Basra and Kuwait, where US Air Force aircraft caught a retreating Iraqi convoy and utterly destroyed it.

For some soft-headed reason, people think that they shouldn't have annihilated the convoy because they were retreating. Retreating, not surrendering. Retreating troops can regroup and fight- until they've surrendered, they're legitimate targets and should be destroyed, regardless of however inept and hapless they may be.

[WotNot]

Which is why Apollo's reaction kinda bugged me; I mean, if he was any closer to the OC, he could've read the in-flight magazines tucked into the back of the passenger seats on the OC, and he saw an empty ship.

Had I been the writer, I would've played it defferently.

The President has doubts and anguish, but Apollo is confident, and has no remorse, leading to sparks and tension between civillian leadership and military, at a time they need it the least.

I know what you mean, but while what you’re describing would work with Starbuck, for Apollo it’s out of character. I’m hesitant to say more, to be honest, because I’ve seen nearly the entire series by this point and I really don’t want to spoil it for you, but I think I can safely say that all of the characters develop throughout the series, and all of them have a thing or two to learn – about each other, and about themselves, and about how to deal with their situation. There are no easy choices here.

Oh, and the “sparks and tension” you mentioned? Keep watching. ;)

[Broomstick]

In the thousand years or so in the future (time enough for Earth to be a fairy tale) I'd expect E-Books to win out over paper.
Why?

I mean, I read e-books, but I'm not giving up my paper book collection. For that matter, while I mostly e-mail I'm still sending occassional snail mail. I pay my bills on-line and I have both debit and credit cards, but I still carry cash as well. A new technology does not always completely supplant an old technology.

For goodness sakes, their priest is still using scrolls! Tradition can be a very durable thing.

Maybe they've cured cancer,
Nope. "Madame President" is dying of cancer in this series.

Just because they're more advanced than us in some areas does not mean they are more advanced in all areas.

but it seems as though laser surgery or implanted contacts or cloned eyeballs or fetal tissue would have replaced glasses.
Such procedures will, of course, carry risks - surgical procedures, no matter how minor, always do. I myself can not tolerate contact lenses, nor can I have laser eye surgery because I am at extremely high risk of suffering several serious side effects from it. In any society, you'll have at least a few individuals who can't tolerate certain procedures. (Such as Captain Kirk in Star Trek)

Also, Adama's glasses are clearly reading glasses - he's got presbyopia, as do most middle aged humans. Perhaps he finds using reading glasses less of a bother than getting medical work done.

Maybe the folks in the BSG universe have spent so much time and energy fighting the Cylons they haven't been able to spend as many resources on such luxuries as eliminating eyeglasses.

[Broomstick]

But he also refused to upgrade long after the Cylon war had ended. And frankly, there's really no particular reason to not upgrade the clocks to digital or make the phones cordless.if you're worried about the cylons,

It seems Adama more or less likes things the old way.
So... please explain to me why a digital clock is somehow inherently superior to an analog clock? Why would they go to the expense of replacing a perfectly good, functional analog clock with a digital while the analog clock is still entirely adequate to the task at hand?

Certainly they utilize digital timers, countdowns, and clocks when you need very find divisions of time... but you don't always need that level of preciseness.

And when you get older, young fella, you'll understand why some of us old fogeys like to keep stuff that's even older than us around.

[Munch]

100% sure. There was a nuke.
That nuke was part of the OC's armament. Even civilian ships need their own protection. No one mentioned the OC's nuke being something out of the ordinary.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Special Guest Appearence by Lorne Greene as Commander Adama's father???

Not without voudou. :dubious:

[FinnAgain]

That nuke was part of the OC's armament.

No, it wasn't.
They called out a 'radiation' warning and said that there was a nuke on board. If this was SOP, they wouldn't have mentioned it.


Even civilian ships need their own protection. No one mentioned the OC's nuke being something out of the ordinary.

I don't think that's the case. I don't have the transcript of the episode in front of me but the civilian ship having a nuke was evidently a cause for alarm and not bussiness as usual.

I'll see if I can't dig up a transcript somewhere.

[ElvisL1ves]

The only question is wether there were any civies on board the OC at all, but in any case, there's very little doubt in my mind that destroying it was the right call.
Sure, at that point. The uncertainty I mentioned is what had happened before that point. When was Olympic Carrier taken over, really, and how? Perhaps the ship was a plant right from the rendezvous off Caprica, and had never had humans on it. Perhaps the nukes had always been on board, and Galactica never had reason or time to look. Perhaps the story about that Dr. Somethingburger needing to see the President about a traitor was a setup to get a Cylon suicide bomber aboard Colonial 1 to further disrupt and terrorize the humans they were toying with.

And, while it was the right decision, the humans could never be sure that there were no humans aboard Olympic Carrier, perhaps locked up in the cargo holds, for whatever purpose the Cylons might have had. If there were, and even if they'd been ordered, and even if it was the necessary call, Apollo and Starbuck would still have killed them. But they'll never be sure. And the officer in charge of the ship count will never know if she made a mistake or not, either.


I may be mistaken about this, but I thought President Stands-Clutching-A-Diseased-Breast's story about how she thought the shoot-down was a mistake she didn't dare admit was a superfluous reference to current politics on the scriptwriters' part.


The analog clock, btw, made a better graphic than a digital one would have.


How could such a great show have been created from the wreckage of such formulaic crap like the original series, anyway? Tip o' the hat to Ron Moore, with my gratitude.

[Priam]

No, it wasn't.
They called out a 'radiation' warning and said that there was a nuke on board. If this was SOP, they wouldn't have mentioned it.

Yeah. One of the bridge crew shouted "Radiological alarm!" and klaxons went off. This generally is meant to indicate an "ohshit" moment like when the Cylons launched nukes at Galactica in the miniseries.

[Malodorous]

Which is why Apollo's reaction kinda bugged me; I mean, if he was any closer to the OC, he could've read the in-flight magazines tucked into the back of the passenger seats on the OC, and he saw an empty ship.

Had I been the writer, I would've played it defferently.

It would have made a lot more sense if Apollo had seen someone in the ship. Then, even though it was still obviously a trap, he could have felt guilty about killing the passangers. Given the shows penchant for killing childred I was positve he was gonna seem some little kid waving at him when he flew by the windows, and then still have to shoot down the ship.

In fact I wouldn't be suprised if this was how they originally wrote the episode, but then changed it at the last minute when they realized they'd done almost the same thing in the pilot and dropped it. It would've made Apollo's and the prez's guilt make a lot more sense. Sort of how like the first Star Wars movie makes a lot more sense when you realize the script was written with a older Anagin in mind.

[Munch]

Yeah. One of the bridge crew shouted "Radiological alarm!" and klaxons went off. This generally is meant to indicate an "ohshit" moment like when the Cylons launched nukes at Galactica in the miniseries.
True. Thank you and FinnAgain for clearing that up. I had a feeling I was missing something.

[RogueRacer]

I saw it that the Olympic Carrier not making the jump was no accident or coincidence. Remember, there probably was someone on board that wanted to report a spy to the President. The Cylons did not want that ship to complete the jump. I think it was a case where they absolutely had to activate their agents on board. The comm officer could even be completely blameless. The OC could very well have radioed in that they were ready to jump.

This has interesting implications for Baltar. We don't know for certain that this person on the OC was even going to report Baltar. Maybe they were going to report the spies on the OC? Maybe the Cylons were completely in control of the OC at this point and the message was just meant to put Baltar more completely in Number 6's control? Maybe it had nothing to do with Baltar and he is just nuts? Fun stuff.

[Sean Factotum]

The analog clock, btw, made a better graphic than a digital one would have.
And it's possible to have an analog clock function without power - just remember to wind them on a regular basis. US Navy ships still have the analog, non-powered chronometer in spaces where keeping acurate track of time is necessary. Makes perfect sense to have them on a space warship.

[levdrakon]

That's President "Stands With A Fist"

:)

Oops, my mistake.

[Munch]

And it's possible to have an analog clock function without power - just remember to wind them on a regular basis. US Navy ships still have the analog, non-powered chronometer in spaces where keeping acurate track of time is necessary. Makes perfect sense to have them on a space warship.
How well could an analogue clock perform on a vessel that travels faster than light?

[silenus]

How well could an analogue clock perform on a vessel that travels faster than light?

I'm not seeing a problem here. Because they "jump" to FTL, there are no observable time dialation problems. They never get near lightspeed before the jump. Analog clocks would function just like any other piece of mechanical equipment. Unless, of course, they started running backwards, because that would be bad. The past is no place to be present in the future! :D

[levdrakon]

How well could an analogue clock perform on a vessel that travels faster than light?

Relativitally well?

[ElvisL1ves]

They don't "travel" FTL in this show, they jump. Elapsed time for a jump as perceived shipboard is zero or near it. If all ships take the same ET to jump, or even cruise at the same "speed" profile FTL, they'll stay synchronized.

[Malodorous]

I saw it that the Olympic Carrier not making the jump was no accident or coincidence. Remember, there probably was someone on board that wanted to report a spy to the President. The Cylons did not want that ship to complete the jump. I think it was a case where they absolutely had to activate their agents on board. The comm officer could even be completely blameless. The OC could very well have radioed in that they were ready to jump.

This has interesting implications for Baltar. We don't know for certain that this person on the OC was even going to report Baltar. Maybe they were going to report the spies on the OC? Maybe the Cylons were completely in control of the OC at this point and the message was just meant to put Baltar more completely in Number 6's control? Maybe it had nothing to do with Baltar and he is just nuts? Fun stuff.

But the Ceylon's were within a few days of catching up with the fleet, presumably if they'd kept up the chase, the Galactica's crew would've started making mistakes, things would've started to malfunction, Boomerbot would've blown all thier water into space and that would be that. Having the Ceylon's give up the advantage just to mess with Baltar or keep Dr. whathisface quiet doesn't make a lot of sense, since after the Ceylons catch the fleet, they don't need spies anymore.

Of course Dr. whatshisface might have been on to the spy mentioned by the OC. But you'd think that 1.) the doctor would just tell the crew of the OC, who would then toss the spy out the airlock or 2) The spy would try tossing the Dr out of the airlock before he could tell anyone, instead of just giving up the advantage of being able to track the fleet to try the rather half-assed plan of ramming the suspiciously late OC into the Galactica

[Cliffy]

The nukes prove it was a trap.

Likely but not definitive. AFAWK, Boomer could have triggered the radiological alarm, and there might be other sleepers on the Galactica as well.

--Cliffy

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Cylons, Malodorous , Cylons.

[Malodorous]

Cylons, Malodorous , Cylons.

Thanks Bosda, I was wondering how the series creators were going to explain how the people of Sri-Lanka became robots in the future.

[Balduran]

But the Ceylon's were within a few days of catching up with the fleet, presumably if they'd kept up the chase, the Galactica's crew would've started making mistakes, things would've started to malfunction, Boomerbot would've blown all thier water into space and that would be that. Having the Ceylon's give up the advantage just to mess with Baltar or keep Dr. whathisface quiet doesn't make a lot of sense, since after the Ceylons catch the fleet, they don't need spies anymore.

Of course Dr. whatshisface might have been on to the spy mentioned by the OC. But you'd think that 1.) the doctor would just tell the crew of the OC, who would then toss the spy out the airlock or 2) The spy would try tossing the Dr out of the airlock before he could tell anyone, instead of just giving up the advantage of being able to track the fleet to try the rather half-assed plan of ramming the suspiciously late OC into the Galactica

That's why I'm going with the theory that it was either dumb luck the OC's FTL drive failed or that someone discovered the OC was being trapped and disabled the FTL. At that point the Cylons probably realised the jig was up and their only chance would be to try and nuke the Galactica before another jump. I'm sure the Cylon's plan the whole time was to just wear them out but the OC's FTL failure put an end to that.

The only thing that doesn't jibe is why it then took another 33 minutes after the OC reappeared for the Cylons to appear. If they had taken control of the OC and put nukes on, couldn't they also find the jump coordinates?

[John Mace]

Good set of episodes!

I guess we're supposed to assume that Bommer doesn't know she's a Cylon, right? Or at least the Boomner on the Gallactica doesn't know. That should make some interesting storylines...

[Malodorous]

The only thing that doesn't jibe is why it then took another 33 minutes after the OC reappeared for the Cylons to appear. If they had taken control of the OC and put nukes on, couldn't they also find the jump coordinates?

Good point. Perhaps whatever method the Cylons used to track the OC only gave them the coordinates of the jump after the jump was made, and then once they have this info, it takes 33 minutes for the information to reach the Cylons and for them to make their own jump.

This actually makes sense, since if they were finding out the location of the jump because the spy was told the coordinates that the fleet would jump to next and then relayed this information to the Cylons, then the Cylons would appear exactly 33 minutes after the spy learned this information, not 33 minutes after the fleet jumped.

On the other hand, if the spy didn't know the coordinates of the next jump (presumably it wasn't announced to all passangers), but just activated a homing signal or something, then it makes sense that the Cylons could only follow 33 minutes after the OC jumped.

[Balduran]

On the other hand, if the spy didn't know the coordinates of the next jump (presumably it wasn't announced to all passangers), but just activated a homing signal or something, then it makes sense that the Cylons could only follow 33 minutes after the OC jumped.

This is how I figured it was going, but when the OC was delayed and the Cylons presumadely boarded they should have gotten the coordinates then so that the OC and the Cylons would have appeared at the same time.

So I see two options:

Perhaps the jump coordinates are somehow tamper-proof? The Galactica transmits signals directly to each ship's FTL drive to lock in the coordinates. Once locked in, they cannot be accessed.

[Balduran]

For those of you counting at home, that is only one option.

[Munch]

Good point. Perhaps whatever method the Cylons used to track the OC only gave them the coordinates of the jump after the jump was made, and then once they have this info, it takes 33 minutes for the information to reach the Cylons and for them to make their own jump.
I dunno. I don't think you can assume that the Galactica has jumped the same distance each and every time for ~140 jumps. Any distance variation would result in different relay times for that 33 minutes.

And while it's fun to boil this down, we have to keep in mind it's just a plot wrinkle that was overlooked.

[Malodorous]

I dunno. I don't think you can assume that the Galactica has jumped the same distance each and every time for ~140 jumps. Any distance variation would result in different relay times for that 33 minutes.

I presume the jumps are several light years in distance, so they're not using a technology that relys on an actual signal passing through the interveneing distance, as that would take years, but some sort of future tech that isn't distance dependent and so might very well take some sort of standard amount of time.

[carnivorousplant]

Or it may take 33 minutes to do the calculation, warm up the space warper jumper thingie and lite the fuse. :)

[Brutus]

I just assumed that the Olympic Whatever transmitted the coordinates to the Cylons (variation on Star Treks 'subspace' comms or maybe left a small bouy?), and it takes a Cylon Basestar 33 minutes to prep and do a FTL jump. And because they are ro-bots!, it takes them 33 minutes every time.

[Munch]

Or it may take 33 minutes to do the calculation, warm up the space warper jumper thingie and lite the fuse. :)
Do the Raptors (whatever the name of the ships are that Boomer flies) take 33 minutes to fire up their FTL?

[carnivorousplant]

Do the Raptors (whatever the name of the ships are that Boomer flies) take 33 minutes to fire up their FTL?

I suggest that it takes 33 minutes to do all those things.
"Warm up the thingie and light the fuse" is obviously metaphor for whatever they do in addition to calculating the jump. :)

[levdrakon]

Good point. Perhaps whatever method the Cylons used to track the OC only gave them the coordinates of the jump after the jump was made, and then once they have this info, it takes 33 minutes for the information to reach the Cylons and for them to make their own jump.

This actually makes sense, since if they were finding out the location of the jump because the spy was told the coordinates that the fleet would jump to next and then relayed this information to the Cylons, then the Cylons would appear exactly 33 minutes after the spy learned this information, not 33 minutes after the fleet jumped.

On the other hand, if the spy didn't know the coordinates of the next jump (presumably it wasn't announced to all passangers), but just activated a homing signal or something, then it makes sense that the Cylons could only follow 33 minutes after the OC jumped.

This is all getting me more confused the more I think about it.

Ok, Adama suggests they split the fleet into six groups, make two more jumps then on the forth jump they rendezvous at a common set of coordinates. Tigh comments "24 jumps to plot, we're breaking our humps calculating one jump every 33 minutes."

So the Cylons aren't receiving coordinates from a spy, because the time it takes Galactica to calculate a new jump varies with each jump. Yet it takes the Cylons exactly 33 minutes to catch up to the fleet. To me that means there's a beacon of some kind on the OC. If this beacon transmits via an instantaneous "hyperspace" method, then it really does take the Cylons 33 minutes to calculate and execute a jump. That makes them slower than we are. Dumb Cylons.

Or, the spy beacon transmits at the speed of light, in which case the fleet is jumping exactly 33 light minutes per jump. It takes 33 minutes for the signal to reach the Cylons, who can then almost instantaneously calculate and execute the jump. Smart Cylons!

Now at the beginning of "33" a crewmen wonders aloud, "why every 33 minutes, why not 34 or 35?" She wouldn't have asked that question because she'd have known they were jumping 33 light minutes per jump, wouldn't she?

So I don't think they're only jumping 33 light minutes per jump.

But, the Cylons capture the OC, plant nukes on it, and yet are unable to get the coordinates. Instead, they somehow have to get those nukes onboard, and still have the pilot thinking he somehow got away, so he would jump to where the fleet was, and then have the beacon transmit their location. Exactly 33 minutes after the OC jumps to the fleet, the Cylons show up. How'd they pull that off?

[Munch]

But, the Cylons capture the OC, plant nukes on it, and yet are unable to get the coordinates. Instead, they somehow have to get those nukes onboard, and still have the pilot thinking he somehow got away, so he would jump to where the fleet was, and then have the beacon transmit their location. Exactly 33 minutes after the OC jumps to the fleet, the Cylons show up. How'd they pull that off?
A Cylon sleeper as the pilot (or posing as the pilot) is the simplest explanation. It would be able to at least facilitate all that, as well as appear believably confused by the happenings once he "falls asleep".

[carnivorousplant]

So I don't think they're only jumping 33 light minutes per jump.


I agree. Alpha Centauri and A Proxima, the closest stars to Earth are about 4 light years away. Calculating the distance in light minutes:

4 Light Years * 365 Days/year * 24 Hrs/Day * 60 Min/Hr = 2,102,400 Light minutes between the closest stars. That would require 63,709 jumps to travel between the closest stars.

[Malodorous]

Another possible explanation: the Cylons knew that if they appeared right with the OC, the fleet would jump away and they'd loose thier last chance of catching it. If they appeared a few minutes afterwards, the colonists might ask themselves why the time interval had changed, decide that the OC had been compromised and run away. Since the OC was really their last chance to catch the fleet, the Cylons decided to give the colonists the time enough to decide whether to accept or reject it.

[ElvisL1ves]

The jumps are probably not all the same distance. The first one was extremely long - remember Lt. Castillo, er, Cdr. Adama asking the jump officer if he'd ever set up one "that long", meaning "way beyond the Red Line" IIRC? No way the fleet would be so predictable.

Communications would have to be through the same instantaneous magic. If it were limited to light speed, the Cylons would never get the message from their spy(s).

Another possible explanation: the Cylons knew that if they appeared right with the OC, the fleet would jump away and they'd loose thier last chance of catching it.They could have jumped the fleet at any time, if that were the case.

I guess we're supposed to assume that Bommer doesn't know she's a Cylon, right? She doesn't know, but she's heard the rumors about the new Cylon models and she's afraid she might be one - she certainly knows there's nobody else who could plausibly have taken the detonators, and has no idea how she got soaked with water. But, she also has the usual set of human memories, and that's enough to keep her in denial. She also has that chief petty officer she's been humping helping her keep the others from the same suspicion. Lots of plot fodder there. The Boomer on Caprica hasn't shown any signs yet, but I like the idea that she was placed there to help lead the Cylons to La Resistance.

[ExTank]

Didn't the fleet move some distance away from their entry point after losing the Olympic Carrier? I don't recall if they consciously did that or not; they seemed to actually be some distance away, as they had time to scan and then intercept the Carrier.

If they hadn't (moved or been some distance away), the Carrier would've dropped in right on top of them, and her Nuke could've damaged the fleet (or the Galactica) enough to cripple it, and leave it helpless before the Cylon follow-up Base Star.

Damn! Where are the repeats? Why, Oh why, do I not have Tivo?

[The Long Road]

Everyone is assuming that there were originally people on the OC and the Cylons either killed them, or shut them up. How about the ship never having had people and was simply a homing beacon for the Cylons? The pilot could have been a Cylon and been transmitting false information to the Galactica from when it first joined the group. The 1300 people on the ship might have never existed or simply been eliminated right away.

The ship breaks down for 3 hours and then rejoins the fleet. During that time, the Cylons board the OC, fix the FTL drive and get the coords off the computer but send the OC along and follow 33 minutes later. They don't simply attack the Galactica right away because they don't want the fleet jumping again without the OC. If it jumps with the OC, they lose the Galactica for good(which eventually happens). The Cylons send the OC along with some BS about the Cylons leaving them alone, then attack 33 minutes later.

Once the game is up and the ship is ordered to stop, it ignored all communications and runs towards the fleet. What captain would not simple ask, "wtf do you want me to stop??". The entire bit about the Dr needing to talk to the president could have been a ploy to get an assassin on her ship and kill her or get the OC close enough to detonate a nuke and take out her ship.


OK, it's a stretch.

[The Long Road]

Didn't the fleet move some distance away from their entry point after losing the Olympic Carrier? I don't recall if they consciously did that or not; they seemed to actually be some distance away, as they had time to scan and then intercept the Carrier.

If they hadn't (moved or been some distance away), the Carrier would've dropped in right on top of them, and her Nuke could've damaged the fleet (or the Galactica) enough to cripple it, and leave it helpless before the Cylon follow-up Base Star.

Damn! Where are the repeats? Why, Oh why, do I not have Tivo?


There was a three hour delay between the OC getting left behind and it rejoining the fleet. The captain of the OC makes a comment about the FTL drive being down for three hours. During that time the fleet would have been moving away from its original point.

[carnivorousplant]

Do the fighters "jump" or do they have some other kind of FTL?
Do the larger ships have another kind of FTL other than jumping?

[silenus]

Do the fighters "jump" or do they have some other kind of FTL?
Do the larger ships have another kind of FTL other than jumping?

IIRC, no and no.

[carnivorousplant]

In the miniseries, one of the two person ships was traveling between solar systems; that implies FTL of some sort.

[levdrakon]

If they hadn't (moved or been some distance away), the Carrier would've dropped in right on top of them, and her Nuke could've damaged the fleet (or the Galactica) enough to cripple it, and leave it helpless before the Cylon follow-up Base Star.

For that matter, why don't the Base Stars jump in closer to the fleet? They always jump in far enough away the Galactica has time to launch Vipers, shoot down their nukes, etc.


In the miniseries, one of the two person ships was traveling between solar systems; that implies FTL of some sort.

I believe that's the Raptor, and it does have FTL. But it's more multi-purpose long range reconnaissance, than fighter.

[Odinoneeye]

Anybody else think the new base stars are really cool looking?

Does anyone know if Grace Park (Boomer) is any relation to Linda Park (Hoshi on Enterprise)?

They have the same last name, are both asian and are both really hot, so I was just wondering.

[Priam]

For that matter, why don't the Base Stars jump in closer to the fleet? They always jump in far enough away the Galactica has time to launch Vipers, shoot down their nukes, etc.

Part of that could be lack of absolute precision in FTL jumping. It seemed pretty clear to me that not hitting any large objects and arriving roughly near where you intended was considered pretty darn good. Another part could be the fact that nukes make big booms. You don't necessarily want your ships going up in the same radioactive mess.

Personally I find the first explanation more plausible, since the Cylons have so far shown little remorse about using suicide bombs.

[Maus Magill]

Part of that could be lack of absolute precision in FTL jumping. It seemed pretty clear to me that not hitting any large objects and arriving roughly near where you intended was considered pretty darn good. Another part could be the fact that nukes make big booms. You don't necessarily want your ships going up in the same radioactive mess.

That was my assumption, too.

As some pirate said, "[Jumping] through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, kid."

[carnivorousplant]

Does anyone know if Grace Park (Boomer) is any relation to Linda Park (Hoshi on Enterprise)?

Sure, all attractive English women named "Smythe" are related.
:)

[CarnalK]

Have any Cylons on the show specifically said that an agent is transmitting coordinates?

Is it possible that the Cylons have a network of detection buoys along possible escape routes? 33 minutes is how long it takes for them to transmit a detection alert and have ships jump to intercept. If this is the case the 33 minute attacks should end after a certain a distance.

Or maybe I didn't pay enough attention? :)

[tracer]

Jumps, schmumps.

I miss the old series, where Lorne Green could simply order the Galactica to accelerate to the speed of light.

[ElvisL1ves]

The Cylon attacks stopped after the destruction of Olympic Carrier. That wouldn't have mattered if there were sensors everywhere. Plus, the Cylons could have planted mines as easily as they planted sensors.

[Ponder Stibbons]

Personally, I think they put in the whole business with the Olympic Carrier just so we could have discussions like this one where we all are talking about blowing up The OC (http://www.fox.com/oc/) and discussing whether or not it contains any actual, live people. :cool:

[ElvisL1ves]

I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[Sean Factotum]

I believe that's the Raptor, and it does have FTL. But it's more multi-purpose long range reconnaissance, than fighter.Yes. In the mini-series, Boomer (IIRC) explained that the Raptor was built for use in the Cylon Wars, and it's purpose was to jump ahead of the fleet, get recon info, and jump back and report.

[Encinitas]

Could someone tell me who left the note in Commander Adama's quarters at the end of the miniseries that said "There are only 12 Cylon models?"

[Cliffy]

I don't think we're supposed to know. My guess it's another manifestation of Boomer's internal conflict.

--Cliffy

[Smapti]

Could someone tell me who left the note in Commander Adama's quarters at the end of the miniseries that said "There are only 12 Cylon models?"

The only human who knows this (as far as we the Viewers are aware) is Baltar, so it was most likely him.

[Encinitas]

Ah, thanks Cliffy and Smapti. Those were the two theories I had myself. I was just worried that I had missed something.

I'm loving this show!

[HPL]

The only human who knows this (as far as we the Viewers are aware) is Baltar, so it was most likely him.

That's what I thought. But they could ask how he knows that.........

I think thing 12 models is a bit small. I'd really hate to think how awkward it would be for 2 of the same model to end up in the same room at the same time together.

[carnivorousplant]

how awkward it would be for 2 of the same model to end up in the same room at the same time.

France.
Did I mention that I come from France?
Twins are quite common in France.

[BrotherCadfael]

I'd really hate to think how awkward it would be for 2 of the same model to end up in the same room at the same time together.Especially if they are wearing the same dress...

[MaddyStrut]

For some reason, I remember the note saying "there are 12 cylon models"--my memory ommitted the word "only." I guess because I don't understand why it would be in there. Adama didn't know at the time that there were any cylon models--so why say "only" 12. I think he'd be shocked enough to realize there were any at all. Come to think of it, how did he get from that note that the "models" looked human to begin with? Unless he already had some intelligence (that may come up in later episodes) that some cylons looked human.

Does anyone have an idea why Boomer rigged a detonator in her ship and why she had her finger on it during the scanning for water scene? I was thinking maybe part of her programming was that she was prepared to blow up the ship in case her partner 1) found water himself or 2) looked over her shoulder and saw that she had found water thereby realizing that something is amiss with Boomer.

I'm interested to see how they deal with the food issue. I would think water would be easier to find than food. The quantities that Balter said they needed seem too large for them to have on hand. I'm sure Galactica had rations on board and probably some other ships did (like the prison ship the president discussed with her aid), but the transports probably don't have a lot. I pity the folks on the budget carriers who only have a few foil bags of pretzels and a drink cart to sustain them!

[levdrakon]

Adama didn't know at the time that there were any cylon models--so why say "only" 12. I think he'd be shocked enough to realize there were any at all. Come to think of it, how did he get from that note that the "models" looked human to begin with? Unless he already had some intelligence (that may come up in later episodes) that some cylons looked human.

Adama was the first human besides Baltar to find out about human looking Cylons. When they were on that Raganor space station looking for weapons (in the pilot ep), he ended up stuck in a separate compartment with one. He knew it was a Cylon because they had purposely placed that station in an area with radiation that was harmful to Cylons, and the Cylon he was with was showing symptoms of it.

[Cervaise]

I'm loving this show so far also. How long has it been since we had a science fiction show that took itself really seriously? And didn't fuck it up?I'm interested to see how they deal with the food issue. I would think water would be easier to find than food. The quantities that Balter said they needed seem too large for them to have on hand.Water should be really, really easy to come by. Heck, in our solar system, there's vast quantites just floating around at the farthest edge, in the Kuiper belt and the Oort cloud (theoretically, of course). According to our leading theories of system formation, more systems than not should have similar phenomena.

Actually, the food quantities Baltar was describing seemed sort of high to me, in general. Does anybody still have the episode like on TiVo or something? Can we get a rundown on exactly what he said they would need? I'd like to crunch the numbers a bit, but unfortunately I forgot that I wanted to nitpick this and deleted the show.

In general, though, the thing that really struck me about the show so far is how primal the conflicts are. Compare Star Trek, where they run into quantum fluctuations of some variety or other that cause them to de-evolve or fall into alternate dimensions or some other outlandish result. By contrast, on BG so far, the conflicts have centered on (a) not being allowed to sleep and (b) running out of water. Seriously, incredibly basic problems, almost to the point of having been deliberately chosen for that quality; you can imagine the writers huddled together, trying to break stories rooted in a few fundamental survival issues.

Only two episodes in, and already it's can't-miss television. Cool.

[Rhythmdvl]

Re: Lack of sleep

If plotting a jump was labor intensive, wouldn't the Galactica need to help plot the civilian ship's jumps? Even if it were only mildly laborious, would civilian ships likely carry enough crew to run twenty four hours a day?


Re: Distance between OC and the fleet/ between the jumped Cylons and the fleet

Anther possible explanation is that after jumping, the ships floor it in some predetermined direction. As long as the Base Star's STL speed doesn't dwarf the Galactica's, thirty-three minutes could give the fleet enough space to maneuver, and enough space such that the OC would have to catch up if it showed up a bit late.


Re: the note

I listened to some of the audio commentary on the miniseries DVD. The producers/ directors initially thought it was Baltar who left the note. But when the cast/ crew asked the same question (who left it?) they realized they had another plot opportunity – so consider it an open question.


I soooo much wanted to hate this show before the miniseries came out, but was left in a state of continual awe. It is wonderful is it to have a show – a new show – airing each week that doesn't have multiple cringe-points.


Thank you SciFi! .... So say we all!*






* Another bit from the DVD commentary - that whole speech was basically ad libbed. When the directors came to get Olmos for the scene, he was discussing military/ religious relationships throughout history and didn't think the scene as they had written would work.

[carnivorousplant]

Only two episodes in, and already it's can't-miss television.

More importanly, will it still be so in twenty episodes? :)

[MaddyStrut]

Thanks Cervaise! I had forgotten about the Ragnor scene.

I agree that it's can't miss television for me at this point. There's so much I like. Like you, I like the fundamental problems that they deal with. I also like that they have to make tough decisions and then carry them out. They can't just reverse the polarity on the phase inverter neutron shield harmonics and avoid the tough choice. (Not to diss Star Trek or anything because I like that too--but this is neat to see for a change.)

[ExTank]

I'm loving this show so far also. How long has it been since we had a science fiction show that took itself really seriously? And didn't fuck it up?

Four years? Going on five?

:Sigh:

How quickly we forget (http://www.scifispace.com/html/firefly.php).

:Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand...:

[Smapti]

Water should be really, really easy to come by. Heck, in our solar system, there's vast quantites just floating around at the farthest edge, in the Kuiper belt and the Oort cloud (theoretically, of course). According to our leading theories of system formation, more systems than not should have similar phenomena.

Wouldn't you need some pretty specialized equipment to extract liquid water from a comet in zero gravity? It doesn't seem too likely that anyone in the convoy happened to have the right tools on hand for that, so the problem becomes not just finding water, but finding it in a form the Galactica can use.

[Galanthus]

Wouldn't you need some pretty specialized equipment to extract liquid water from a comet in zero gravity? It doesn't seem too likely that anyone in the convoy happened to have the right tools on hand for that, so the problem becomes not just finding water, but finding it in a form the Galactica can use.


That's how I rationalise this one too, also perhaps water that's not hopelessly contamininated with ammonia, salts and organics ...

[Hustle]

More importanly, will it still be so in twenty episodes? :)
The first season only has 13 episodes, and after watching the first dozen that have aired on Sky One I'd say it has definitely maintained it's high quality. Episode 12 is particularly juicy with a great cliffhanger I have to wait till Monday to see resolved in the season finale. A whole week!

Bastards.

(The good kind.)

Sci Fi Channel's two-hour debut of original series Battlestar Galactica on Jan. 14 delivered 3.1 million viewers 2-plus (a 2.6 household rating), making it the highest-rated program on ad-supported cable that night, the network announced Tuesday.

The first installment of Battlestar was the second highest-rated series premiere in the network's history behind Stargate Atlantis last summer
That seems to be some good news from mediaweek.com (http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000767259), and since it's not on Fox, the "We cut short, you decry" policy they have for shows I enjoy won't apply. It's like they have my TV bugged or something.

Bastards.

(The bad kind.)

[Cliffy]

"We cut short, you decry"

Tee hee.

Who is doing the space effects for this show? I'd be terribly surprised if it isn't the same house that did them for Firefly -- the cinema verite in space (with snap zoom action!) is exactly the same as the space shots in that show. (Except the sound, more's the pity.)


--Cliffy

[Hustle]

Who is doing the space effects for this show? I'd be terribly surprised if it isn't the same house that did them for Firefly -- the cinema verite in space (with snap zoom action!) is exactly the same as the space shots in that show. (Except the sound, more's the pity.)
You are correct, sir. Good eye. I checked the credits and it's a company called Zoic (http://www.zoicstudios.com). Seems they are also responsible for Buffy and Angel, and will be doing the Serenity movie as well. Should be interesting to see what they can do on the big screen.

Despite their tendency to spell Galactica with two L's half the time, I am impressed.

[Ponder Stibbons]

* Another bit from the DVD commentary - that whole speech was basically ad libbed. When the directors came to get Olmos for the scene, he was discussing military/ religious relationships throughout history and didn't think the scene as they had written would work.
I had no idea. That's pretty cool. Thanks for the info!