Are the Better Cartoons Designed with Adults in Mind?

[Carnac the Magnificent!]

During the recent Christmas-New Years's holidays, I saw several episodes of SpongeBob, Jimmy Neutron, the Simpsons, and a couple of other such shows. First time I've seen a cartoon in years.

I'm no expert, but it seems the Really Good Cartoons are designed with the adult mind, in mind. Sure, kids can enjoy them, but they lack the life experience, the sense of irony and the absurd, and about 50 other essentials to truly appreciate the subtleties of this underappreciated artform. The Simpsons and Bullwinkle are obvious cases in point, but a strong argument could be made about many other cartoons--both past and present. All of this may be obvious to some folks, but it didn't click for me until recently.

Do you agree or disagree?

What other cartoons would appeal to the (playful) adult mind?

[Agrippina]

Invader ZIM and Rocko's Modern Life are two other cartoons with adults in mind.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

A lot of the Looney Tunes were definitely written for adults.

[Dewey Finn]

As an example, consider the Looney Tunes - Golden Collection, Volume Two. The cartoon What's Opera, Doc? can be played with a commentary track that describes in great detail the artistic and musical influences. The references to Wagner's Ring cycle are obvious, but the commentary points out the influences from five Wagnerian operas, including a couple that are performed only rarely today.

Also, one Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoon goes to great lengths to set up an introduction of the Ruby Yacht of Omar Khayyam.

So clearly the best cartoons have stuff for the more literate audience.

[Yumblie]

Many Warner Bros cartoons do this. Along with Looney Tunes, Animaniacs and Pinky and the Brain were definitely written with adults in mind, with their absurdist slapstick, quick wit, and old Hollywood references.

[BrotherCadfael]

Remember that, up until the '60s, Loony Toons and many other cartoons were created to run in the movie theaters before the main picture. So they were definitely designed to appeal to grownups, and it shows in much of the humor.

At our local First Night last weekend, one of the movie theaters was running a 12-hour Looney Toons marathon. I saw a couple of hours worth (I had to sit through a 45-minute reel of '60s crap in the middle -- the Blue Racer, the Tijuana Toads) and they were pretty good to watch -- they hadn't cut all the "violence" out of them. Quite a different experience watching them in the theater rather than on a TV.

[Ranchoth]

The Bruce Timm DC Comics shows? (Batman; Superman; Justice League)
South Park
Drawn Together
A lot of anime.

[paperbackwriter]

Animated cartoons are usually today considered "kiddie fare", but they have been used for multiple levels and adult audiences since the beginning. Others have mentioned Loony Toons, and Tiny Toons Adventures and its spin-offs kept up this traditions. Entire episodes spoofed Sunset Blvd. and Citizen Kane, for pete's sake. Think of, say, Krazy Kat or Pogo or Dogpatch and you see that even the early examples were written on multiple levels.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Try something from the Anime sector, Carnac .

And no, I don't mean Sailor Moon, Dragonball, or Yu-Gi-Oh.

Try Lupin The 3rd , if you like comedy or Big Heist films.

For tragedy, try Grave Of The Fireflies .

There's romance, sports stories, science fiction, pron....

[cmkeller]

PowerPuff Girls are like that too. They had a fantastic Beatles parody episode, which rivals the Simpsons' "B-Sharps" episode in cleverness.

[Agrippina]

Others have mentioned Loony Toons, and Tiny Toons Adventures and its spin-offs kept up this traditions. Entire episodes spoofed Sunset Blvd. and Citizen Kane, for pete's sake.

I always liked the Animaniacs cartoon where the pigeons spoof "West Side Story". The pigeons (the Goodfeathers) themselves were parodies of "Goodfellas", defintely not a kids movie.

[RealityChuck]

As an addendum, Chuck Jones has been quoted as saying that they never made Merrie Melodies and Looney Tunes for children; they made them for themselves.

Jay Ward (Rocky & Bullwinkle, George of the Jungle) was the same way.

[Hoops]

Absolutely the best cartoons are for all ages, and I think it's great.

When I was a kid, the Saturday morning cartoons featuring the Warner Bros characters were the only ones that I noticed my dad appreciating. It definitely helped us to bond and encouraged me to try to think more like an adult. My sense of humor was greatly enhanced as a result.

Thanks, Chuck Jones, Friz Freling, and all the other animators who didn't talk down to me when I was a kid!

[WordMan]

PowerPuff Girls are like that too. They had a fantastic Beatles parody episode, which rivals the Simpsons' "B-Sharps" episode in cleverness.

The Beat-Alls ep of the PowerPuff Girls is great. Dexter's Lab is great, too. On Nick, I like The Fairly OddParents, but find it a little creepy (a scene where Timmy is going to shove a butterfly net up his Dad's butt to capture the Evil Bug that has crawled up there - it has been made obvious in a sorta subtle way - and Timmy's dad asks "what - is it Father's Day already?!" They hit the joke a few times during the cartoon - ewwww.

Ultimately though, yeah - it always seems to work better when cartoons are written with adults in mind. Think of the alternative - Smurfs, Care Bears - please, stop me now.

[Silver Serpentine]

Then there's Adult Swim on Cartoon Network.

I'm watching ATHF right now.

Anyway, Adult Swim cartoons:

Aqua Teen Hunger Force (not for kids)
Futurama (more adult, but not too inappropriate for kids, I don't think),
Family Guy (same as Futurama),
Home Movies (ditto)
The Oblongs (Probably not too kid friendly),
it might be different now, since I was without cable for several months.

Not AS, but Duckman was certainly adult-oriented. I wish they'd release it to DVD.

[Sublight]

Personally, I think the real difference is between the cartoons that the writers and animators made to please themselves, versus the ones that were made to please a marketing comittee.

[Evil Captor]

Well, I think some hentai are great fun. And adult? You betcha.

[Agrippina]

versus the ones that were made to please a marketing comittee.

Like 90% of cartoons in the 80s.

[middleman]

Since we are judging them as adults, wouldn't we lend more credit to those designed with us in mind?

[Sauron]

This isn't short-film related, but it does address the question:

The head of Pixar (the company who made Toy Story, Toy Story II, Monsters Inc., Finding Nemo and The Incredibles) gave an interview recently where he said something like "Children are smart. You don't have to talk down to them. We make our movies for ourselves, and we trust kids to understand them." Not an exact quote, but the meaning is clear.

[Nonsuch]

At our local First Night last weekend, one of the movie theaters was running a 12-hour Looney Toons marathon. I saw a couple of hours worth (I had to sit through a 45-minute reel of '60s crap in the middle -- the Blue Racer, the Tijuana Toads) and they were pretty good to watch -- they hadn't cut all the "violence" out of them. Quite a different experience watching them in the theater rather than on a TV.

I saw a Tex Avery festival in a theater in London once—what an experience. There's nothing like seeing one of those silhouette "man standing up in a theater" gags while you're actually in a theater.

[nivlac]

I saw a Tex Avery festival in a theater in London once—what an experience. There's nothing like seeing one of those silhouette "man standing up in a theater" gags while you're actually in a theater.
Tex Avery talked about this in an interview in one of the commentaries in the Looney Tunes Golden Collection Volume 2. He also said that he NEVER made any of his cartoons with children in mind. He aimed for the adults in the audience. What a genius he was.

[Mtgman]

Since we are judging them as adults, wouldn't we lend more credit to those designed with us in mind?That's what I thought when I saw this thread. None of us are really in a position to determine if cartoons with jokes aimed at adults or completely targeted at adults are "better" than cartoons aimed at kids. My wife has extremely fond memories of the Smurfs and Fraggle Rock. They were the cartoons of her childhood and made deep impressions on her as a child. They don't carry over into adulthood very well, but they appeal to their audience and that's what they were supposed to do. The cartoons with longevity have it because their audience has grown up and still enjoys them. Show me a cartoon which was aimed at kids thirty years ago which has been enjoyed in re-runs by every generation of kids since then and I'll show you a fantastic cartoon. I don't care if adults appreciate it or not. It would be really hard to say these other cartoons are "better" than the one which has been enjoyed by three generations of children(assuming cartoon-enjoying childhood starts around 4-5 and ends in mid-late teens 14-16 this means a "child generation" in the context of juvenile cartoon enjoyment is half an adult generation which is correlated to reproductive cycles).

Enjoy,
Steven

[the4thmooncat]

(assuming cartoon-enjoying childhood starts around 4-5 and ends in mid-late teens 14-16

<mini-hijack>
So, if someone continues to like "kids' " cartoons past the age of 16, is this odd?
</m-h>

[Mtgman]

<mini-hijack>
So, if someone continues to like "kids' " cartoons past the age of 16, is this odd?
</m-h>No, I just put the cutoff point there because that's about the time most start to care far more about the opposite sex than about making sure they're able to get up early Saturday morning. In fact, the dates on Friday nights tend to ruin those early Saturday morning view-a-thons and the cartoon watching drops off.

Enjoy,
Steven

[pizzabrat]

PowerPuff Girls are like that too. They had a fantastic Beatles parody episode, which rivals the Simpsons' "B-Sharps" episode in cleverness.

Oh, the Beatles. I just got the joke, "Let's think of a name that's funny the first time you hear it, and gets less funny every other time after that".

[mobo85]

<mini-hijack>
So, if someone continues to like "kids' " cartoons past the age of 16, is this odd?
</m-h>

In this over-16-year-old's opinion, hell no!

[Brufordesque]

The "Meet the Beat-Alls" episode of Powerpuff Girls is pure genius. It actually won an Emmy. That's probably one of my all time favorites - right up there with Looney Toons "The Rabbit of Seville".

Anyway - to add to the list, I would have to say The Tick was definitely aimed at adults. And also - anyone remember the New Mighty Mouse Show? It didn't last long. After an episode where a tired Mighty Mouse sniffed a flower and got back his energy a "concerned parent" complained that it was a cocaine reference and the show quickly disappeared. But it was also clearly aimed at adults. Especially when they spoofed Scooby-Do.

[Scumpup]

Ever watch any of the Kipper the Dog cartoons? They are aimed at little kids. My daughter and my nephew, both aged 3, love them; so does every little kid that I've ever seen view them. Adults tend to find them rather tedious, IME, especially if said adults think something like The Family Guy or Drawn Together is the high water mark of animated entertainment. Little kids, IME, tend to lose interest in the more "sophisticated" shows quickly.

Which cartoons are best?
How old are you?

[Tentacle Monster]

Dexter's Lab had a great parody of Speed Racer. They completely nailed the essence of it.

Are they still making episodes of The Oblongs? I loved that show, especially the creepy goth girl.