Please tell me what is wrong with me. (Long)

[Agent Foxtrot]

I can't take it any longer. I need to get this off my chest.

The last relationship I was in ended in November of 2003. Since then, I have had zero sex and two dates which led to nothing. It's getting to the point that the loneliness is driving me insane.

Let me start from the beginning. I didn't have a mother during the stage of my life where having a mother was essential. After my birth, my mother went crazy and did all sorts of things of which I won't go into detail here, except to say that my parents quickly got divorced. My entire life between a few months old and five years old was completely devoid of maternal nurturing. My father was a busy executive at IBM who tried his best to replace that need with nannies, but there were many nannies who weren't all that great and each ended up quitting after only a few months.

Fast-forward to five years old. My dad meets this wonderful woman who he quickly marries. She has a son five years older than me, and we're all finally a family. However, my parents finally admitted later on in my 20's that the family was very parent-centric instead of child-centric. In my dad's words, "Your mom and I were going to be happy, and the kids just had to deal with it however." Family activities were planned around what mom and dad wanted to do. We never went to Disneyland or anything like that... the parents wanted a place to relax and escape their schedules, and the kids would have to find their own fun.

They divoced when I was 18, and I found myself all of a sudden on my own, weaned from home life faster than you can snap your fingers. Both parents became even more distant than they were, choosing to focus on their own lives and getting back into relationships. I am very close to my mom and was in the process of getting close to my dad until his recent stroke, but...

The need for nurturing was never quite fulfilled in me, which led to many problems with the opposite sex. I was always completely oblivious when a woman showed any interest, and when I finally took the hint, it was usually too late. When it wasn't too late, I'd even further screw it up by being either too pressed or too afraid to make a move, or both. I attribute much of this to low self-esteem and fear of rejection, subconsciously thinking, "there's no way these girls could possibly like me... why should I even try?" And in the instances that someone told me flat-out, "I like you" (one female friend of mine I was interested in actually stripped naked right in front of me, and I didn't even do anything about it), and I made the move, I would all of a sudden shower her with more attention than she wanted. She'd feel smothered and get the hell out of Dodge.

So, to recap, I'm not very good at meeting women to begin with. When I do, I totally screw it up by showing either not enough interest or too much. One girl actually told me, "I liked you until you opened your mouth." I need to feel loved and nurtured and approved of, and there really only was one woman who was willing to give me all that (the last one). I can't stand being alone anymore.

I consider myself a pretty good-looking guy. I take care of myself; go to the gym, try to eat right, good personal hygiene. I've never done or even tried drugs. I'm smart and pretty well-educated. I'm a total romantic who practically invented the idea of candles around the rose petal-filled bathtub. I love to cook and will gladly do it every night of the week. I have the sex drive of a mountain lion, especially after a few beers. (:D) And I've been told by several people that I'm the easiest person they've ever met to talk to. I get along with almost everybody, be they white, black, green, purple, straight, gay, both, unknown, Democrat, Republican, fundamentally religious or staunchly atheist.

But I'm also inconfident and very needy. I rarely have money and have a difficult time holding onto a job because of acute Attention Deficit Disorder. I talk loudly much of the time. I make inappropriate jokes at inappropriate times. I interrupt people. While open-minded, I'm also extremely opinionated and difficult to talk to when I'm irritated.

So, any advice? Similar stories? Is anyone who has met me willing to vouch for me? I know many people are going to reply with, "Just be yourself and stop looking -- someone will fall into your lap." Well, this IS myself, and try as I might, it's impossible to stop looking. I've attempted many times.

Someone please help.

Adam

[Glory]

Needy is the single biggest turn-off in the history of turn-offs.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Agreed, Glory, and you see why the neediness is there.

[Alice The Goon]

Have you considered getting counseling? It sounds like you have fairly complex emotional baggage coupled with inappropriate behaviors that may or may not be tied in with your ADD. When someone has substantial emotional problems, it's extremely difficult to impossible to make lasting changes on their own. If you are truly commited to changing for the better and being happy, counseling for an extended period of time is really your best bet.
Yes, alot of people will wave away your concerns with "there's someone for everybody" and "you'll find someone eventually", but there's also a good chance that you'll be alone for the rest of your life. And even if you do find someone that loves you and is willing to be with you long-term, it's likely that they will also have very involved issues and problems. IME, emotionally healthy people aren't willing to be in relationships with people that are emotionally fucked up. But emotionally fucked up people are more than willing to hang with their own kind.
Something to think about.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Have you considered getting counseling? It sounds like you have fairly complex emotional baggage coupled with inappropriate behaviors that may or may not be tied in with your ADD. When someone has substantial emotional problems, it's extremely difficult to impossible to make lasting changes on their own. If you are truly commited to changing for the better and being happy, counseling for an extended period of time is really your best bet.
I've been in and out of therapy all my life. I stopped going to my most recent psychiatrist because of lack of money and insurance.

[psycat90]

I'd have to agree with Glory, and I'm not sure I see why the neediness is there.

At some point in life you're going to have to stop falling back on your past for your present situation.

[Scruloose]

Ding! ding! ding!
But I'm also inconfident and very needy

To second what Glory points out, I'd say (based soley on your OP) that this is your area to work on. IMHO, needy people are absolutely the hardest people to work with in any relationship - be it romantic, professional, platonic - whatever.

I see this in people from a professional and platonic perspective, and I always end up simply not wanting to be around them any longer. The bottom line is (for me): Look - we all have our problems. We all have issues, and some people deal with it better than others. Not many people are looking to add to their problems by bearing the emotional weight of someone else who's going to bring a ton of it to the table, despite their positives. Start playing the game of "My problems are bigger than yours", and your prospective mates are gonna leave skid marks as they leave.

I'd say, become low maintenance, less needy and more confident, and the rest will take care of itself. A tall order, indeed. Maybe a book or two in these areas will start you off in the right direction.

My completely free advice - stop living in your past.

And if I'm way off base with this - I apologise.

[Agent Foxtrot]

At some point in life you're going to have to stop falling back on your past for your present situation.
I'm not trying to use my past as an excuse, but to give people insight as to why I am the way I am. Much of what I mentioned was gleaned from therapy.

[Alice The Goon]

I have to say I really don't understand when people admit to having difficult issues, they admit that it's wreaking havoc in their lives and making them miserable, yet they say they don't have the time or money for counseling to help. You either want to change, or you don't, it's that simple.
Not all help has to come from an expensive, degreed professional. There are many Certified Social Workers in most communities that charge way less for their sessions, and could assist you in making dramatic changes. If you can't afford to do this on your own, you should be able to qualify for some state-funded behavioral health services. These services are in place to help low-income people.
If you are sincere in your desire to become a happier person, you'll take the initiative, research your options, and take the actions that you need to.
You are in charge of your life. No one's likely to come along and save you from yourself.

[Sat on Cookie]

I'm not trying to use my past as an excuse, but to give people insight as to why I am the way I am. Much of what I mentioned was gleaned from therapy.

Here's something to think about, though. Personally, I think the fact that you reference your past to define who you are today is the relevant insight about you, not what actually happened in your past. Does that make sense? IOW, you could have written everything you wrote in the OP *or* you could have said, "I tend to blame a lot of who I am today on the past." In my mind, that's the issue, not the actual details of your past.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Being in and out of therapy my entire life has brought me up to this point. Like Groucho Marx said, "I've worked myself up from nothing to a state of extreme poverty." Telling me, "Just deal with it. Stop blaming your past and take some responsibility." is not helpful. I've worked very hard to get to the point I am today. It's a wonder that I'm not sleeping on someone's couch and spending my rent money on heroin.

I'm not looking for sympathy, but sheesh, a little empathy would be nice. Perhaps you all have never been at the point that I am. Perhaps you have. Things look a lot different from down here. If I was feeling that sorry for myself, I wouldn't try so hard to take care of myself. The emotional baggage is something I try very hard to hide in social situations, but my body language and speech make it all too visible. These types of things aren't something you can just "fix." I'm 25 years old and deathly afraid that I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. I could go back to my ex, and you know what? She would probably accept me. But I don't want either of us to feel like I'm just "settling" for her because I can't find someone else.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Well, here's my 2 cents.

What you need right now is not a relationship - right now you need to get your shit together.

I think you're looking for all the wrong things in a girlfriend - someone who will make you feel nurtured, and loved and taken care of. That's not a girlfriend, that's a mother.

You need to work on your ADD. You need to work on getting a reasonable job. You need to work on your self esteem. You need to work on making friends that aren't girlfriends, and you need to learn how to take care of yourself.

It's a tall order, and frankly, too much to expect an SO to take on - you're going to have to tackle some of this stuff yourself.

Sort out the ADD - get some life-training, or medication, or something that will allow you to manage this disorder. I have no idea what sorts of resources are available in the US, and I have no idea what your financial position is; however, opposed to therapy, I think some life-skills training would serve you really well. Can you ask your dad for help? A sibling?

Get yourself a job so that you have a realiable source of income.

Then, when you're mentally stable, and financially stable, you can worry about romance.

[alice_in_wonderland]

BTW - I don't think there's anything wrong with you - I think you just need a bit of help learning to take care of yourself.

FWIW - I think this is a really common place for people in their 20's to be, and I think once you manage it (and you will), you'll be totally appealing to the ladies.

Hang in there. :)

[Alice The Goon]

While I have very little hope of you "fixing" yourself, I think you'd have a high chance of succcess with some form of therapy. It doesn't have to be expensive. And just because you've had therapy in the past that hasn't totally worked for you doesn't mean future therapy doesn't stand a chance. Even a support group (most likely free) would be something. I'm sure tons of people (myself included) have changed a great deal through therapy. Sometimes you just have to go through many therapists and/or forms of therapy to find the right one for you.
And I do have empathy for you.
I also second the opinion that you don't need a girlfriend right now. You need to work on yourself and learn to be happy on your own. Please don't enter another relationship until you can bring something to offer another, instead of just being a drain on another.

[Sattua]

Much of what I mentioned was gleaned from therapy.

Which is where it should stay, IMHO.

[drpepper]

You want to know what you can do? Here are some concrete steps. Note that none of them have to do with "resolving feelings" or other such nonsense which won't get you anywhere.


1. Forget therapy. If the things from your OP was "gleaned from therapy" your therapy's been garbage. ("Parent-centric"... God, there aren't enough rolly-eyes for that one).

2. Check out or buy "How to Win Friends and Influence People". Corny? Yeah, but it's generally true, and emphasizes behaviors you should probably start practicing over and over.

3. Continue working out. Go twice as much as you go now.

4. Once you've finished reading "How to Win Friends", find something else positive to read. Once you've finished that, find another one. Always be reading things that condition your mind to concrete, positive behaviours.

5. Learn how to manage your money. Learn how to save. Start a savings account. Do whatever it takes to get power and control over your earning and money. Mention ADD to me as an excuse and I'll kick your ass. ADD or no, you can find a steady job that you can do well and stick with.

6. Find two or three hobbies, activities, club, church, SOMETHING, that you enjoy and enjoy doing or going to BY YOURSELF. If you don't learn to enjoy time alone, and doing things by yourself, no one else will be interested in spending time with you either (this goes back to the "needy" thing that others have addressed above).

Yes, I HAVE been, to some degree or another, where you've been. I DO empathize. Empathy doesn't help anyone, but concrete steps and behaviours do. Do the above for a year. Hell, if you don't like what I've written, write up your own list, and follow through consistently. In a year, see if things haven't drastically changed for you.

[SusanStoHelit]

I just got out of a 2-year dry spell a few months back, and I know how painful loneliness can be. Sometimes I would consider going to frat parties or bars just to feel human contact again. I didn't, and I'm happy I didn't, but that's how desperate I was.

Everything drpepper is very good (especial How to Win Friends...). I would only add two things:

7. Get a dog or cat. If you can't have one in your apartment or house, volunteer at the Humane Society. It isn't sad to see the dogs once your realize how quickly they are usually adopted out. The walking is good for you, it is a socially-acceptable way to get physical contact, and a dog is the best listener there is. :)

8. Sign up for a partner dance class (where you don't have to bring your own partner). It is a great way to practice your social skills in a low-pressure environment.

A good dance class will have you dance with each partner for 1-2 minutes before switching, so if you say something akward, she has until next class to forget it. Plus, it will give you good practice in asking girls out (to dance). And an average-looking guy becomes much cuter when I find out he is a good dancer ;).

[SusanStoHelit]

I forgot to add that dancing is great way to get skin-to-skin contact without all the complications of sex. Just don't ask the same girl to dance more than 3x in a row or she may think you're stalker-ish.

I also second (third?) the recommendation that you don't date until you are in a more stable. At the very least, telling a girl you aren't dating right now is huge turn on. Because we're weird like that.

[Jinx]

Agent Foxtrot, I know where you've been, where you are, and what you're going through for personal reasons effectively parallel to yours which I cannot disclose. First, look at the human heart. It's ugly. Compassion is taught, not instinctive. Most Dopers don't understand where you've been and cannot relate. They think happiness is a state of mind, and a positive attitude can solve everything. BS! When you've been held down or hurt by something in the past, you will never be the same person again. No different than broken glass or bent metal, you will never repair it 100% (unless you melt it down and start all over again). We cannot start over again, unfortunately. We must go on from where we are making the best hand with what life has dealt us.

So, what to do? I wish there were an easy answer. When dating, don't spill your guts - although I know you're starved for companionship and friendship. Go slow, although I know that is easier said than done. The right one will come when you least expect it. Date around a lot, no matter what it takes. Take your time to feel out what kind of person your date is. I know, you want someone NOW, and I've been there, too...but do all you can to meet and date and socialize and laugh. Hang loose, and your charm will outshine the excess baggage weighting you down.

I gotta run for now, but I'll check back to see how you're doing! Hey, it's ok to feel weak sometimes...but keep living for those happy times, and the weaker times will be coming around less and less.

For starters,
- Jinx

[faithfool]

I empathize, because I'm even more screwed up myself. But I wanted to drop in and say that, no matter what, finding someone else to be what you need is nothing but a recipe for disaster. When I first started seeing my last ex, I thought I was ins complete control of the situation (or at least knew what I was getting in to) and whatever happened, I could deal with the chips falling as they may.

Unfortunately, a year plus later and I got dumped, me being so freakin' needy made it worse than anything I'd experienced up to that point. That was at the end of July and I still haven't fully (or even partially?) recovered. Sometimes I wonder if I will. However, choosing him to improve my life, instead of my own work of therapy and medication and dedication to whatever, was the most awful decision I've ever made.

It certainly sucks to take time out from real life to get one's crap together. Sadly, that's the only way you'll have one, is if you do that first.

P.S. To let you know how far *I* still have to go.... when I first read your OP, I almost volunteered for SO service because we're both insecure and need lots of attention. Ya know, that whole 'two peas in a pod' syndrome. Then I read on and remembered why taking on the problems of others, especially when your own are not worked out, is the wrong thing to ever do.

Good luck!

[Alice The Goon]

Look, Agent, when it comes to being happy (first with yourself, then with others) what I do is look at it as any other goal. It's a project. I define the goal, and then I research what steps it would take for me to reach that goal. Then I try as hard as I can to complete each step, and invariably at some point after much hard work, the steps are finished and the goal is won.
This process works for careers, child-rearing, building a house, almost anything you want to achieve. Including happiness. Maybe you could at least see someone to talk about what your goals are, what you're doing to block your success, and what steps you can take to accomplish them. Look at this point in your life as a defining moment. This is where you can use your off-time to make a plan and begin a transition from lonely, scared little boy into strong and confident man.
I empathize with you very much. I was at one point a lonely, scared little girl who thought I needed a man to take care of me, and I participated in more than one dysfunctional relationship to get my needs met. I'm now a strong and confident woman because I did exactly what I'm advising you to do. I made a plan and followed through with it. Now I need no one but myself. And others definitely respond positively to someone with a high confidence level.
If you want to talk more about it, you can always IM or email me.

[SallyCan'tDance]

Yes, alot of people will wave away your concerns with "there's someone for everybody" and "you'll find someone eventually", but there's also a good chance that you'll be alone for the rest of your life.

How can you say this without ever having met Agent Foxtrot?

I've observed a huge amount of "emotionally-fucked-up" people that have frequent relationships. People who are abusive, selfish, stupid, sociopathic even, do often have a partner that puts up with them for whatever convoluted reason. This doesn't mean that these relationships are healthy or good for the partners' quality of life in any way. Sometimes it is far far better to be single.
YMMV.

[Alice The Goon]

Let's face it- it is a basic human desire to want to be with someone. Wanting to not be alone is not abnormal, and it's not always better for someone to be alone forever. Some people are happier when they are in a relationship. What we can agree on is that if they do find a partner when they are emotionally disturbed, the relationship is likely to be dysfunctional. Emotionally unhealthy people should not pursue relationships that are destined to be bad for them and the other person.
Emotionally healthy people, however, are not always completely happy being alone for the rest of their lives, and that's okay.

[RickJay]

So far the advice that's been right on the money is Drpepper's. As usual, he speaks great wisdom.

Here's the thing, Agent:

You can't really change how you feel inside, but

You CAN change the way you act, and

That will change the way you feel.

Look, you had a shitty childhood? Or think you did? Can't change that, dude. You are, sadly, stuck with that. But honestly review the situation:

1. Your alleged dry spell would not even be considered a slump by the standards of some people,

2. Your description of yourself and your alleged problems with women describes almost EVERY young single guy, and

3. You seem to know you have an ADD problem, though... meh, I won't go further into that.

What you can control is:

1. Get a job and keep it. If you have trouble because of ADD, get medication. You will not have much of a life without a decent job and cash flow, so fix that first and foremost. Do whatever it takes. Get off your ass and work. You're a grownup now, and guess what? Chicks dig guys who can provide and have direction in life.

2. If you think you're too loud, shut up. Think about what you're going to say before you say it. Remember, you always talk faster than you think you do, and nobody minds a guy who pauses for a second before he gives his opinion. You have two ears and one mouth and they're best used in that ratio.

3. Stop analyzing yourself. In the same post you told us that you're the easiest person to talk to and then you told us you're irritating to talk to. You said you were open minded and then said you were over opinionated. You're gazing at your own navel and women (and men too) hate that. Stop it. Go and DO SOMETHING. Play softball. Join a club. Get into a co-ed volleyball league (Co-ed sports leagues are a wonderful way to meet girls; if you joined my softball league, I could line you up for two months) Dance class, film class, whatever. Just stop analyzing yourself and do something.

4. GET A REAL JOB. Fix your finances. It's worth repeating. All the rest of this is bullshit unless you square your life away.

[Zoe]

Agent Foxtrot, as you look over the responses, you are going to have an inate sense of what is right for you.

My suggestion is that you must become for yourself the parents that you never really had. You will need to learn how to nurture yourself, teach, empower, console, encourage, take pride in, celebrate, counsel, and love yourself. And you can learn to do that.

When you can't afford counselling, then read. If you can't afford the books, check them out of the library. Spend some time outside on your own and learn to enjoy your own company.

A couple of people have mentioned How to Win Friends and Influence People. I urge you to wait about reading that. You need to make friends with yourself first. One book that helped to instill in me a sense of independence and courage was the book The Tracker by Tom Brown. Strangely, it's not a self-help book. It's about wilderness survival, but it's very moving and centering.

Cut yourself some slack. Get yourself in good emotional shape by spending as much time on what is within you as you do on your physical health (which is also very important.)

It's really a good thing that you have shared here. Many of us have been right where you are and we hear you loud and clear. Don't ever hesitate to talk it out. I don't hear you dwelling in the past. I know that you are explaining what has led to where you are now. Ultimately, you must inquire within.

[astro]

Life's dealt you a deck of cards and you need to play the hand you have, instead of complaining about the cards you didn't get. Beyond that it sounds like you've internalized hook, line and sinker whatever half assed opinions your therapist may have had about your upbringing. "Child-centric - Parent-centric"? Jesus I've never heard a bigger bunch of horseshit! My parents decided where they wanted to go without consulting us (the bastards!) , and we sure did make our own fun wherever the hell that was.

You need to dial your sensitivity meter down quite few notches, and re-think this "it was a twisted upbringing" spin you (via your therapists) have put on your childhood to explain the bad behaviors you indulge in like "neediness." My mother was an alcoholic, and my father was often away overseas with the State Department. As an adolescent I had to deal with some crazy situations for extended stretches of time.

I have my personal problems as you have yours, but the last thing I'm going to do is blame them on my parents. I'm an adult and I can make choices, and so can you. If you want a date you've got to stop suckling on the teat of parental blame and drop the neediness shtick. It repels women llke a force field and makes men despise you. Besides that it's just insanely annoying. Grow up and move on. Women like that.

[kambuckta]

What Astro said.

Let's put it this way: everyone, every single person on this earth can look back on their childhood and bemoan it in some way.

Some of us had typically shitty parents (alcohol, drugs, abuse, molestation) and some of us had seemingly *normal* parents who screwed us over by bestowing upon us too many material possessions, or bothering us with God, or battering us into a belief in the virtues of becoming an accountant. We've all got something to get pissed off about.

You can continue to blame your upbringing for your inadequacies (and thereby absolve yourself from responsibility for dealing with them) or you can just accept that you have chosen to become:
..... inconfident and very needy. I rarely have money and have a difficult time holding onto a job because of acute Attention Deficit Disorder. I talk loudly much of the time. I make inappropriate jokes at inappropriate times. I interrupt people. While open-minded, I'm also extremely opinionated and difficult to talk to when I'm irritated.

It's your call dude. If you really want to meet someone and fall in love, you're not going to do it with your current resume of personal characteristics.

Um...good luck all the same.

[Weirddave]

Adam,

Everything everyone has said so far, for the most part, has been spot on. I'm not going to repeat any of it. What I am going to offer is this. Call me. You have my number, and if you've lost it, my email is in my profile. Both Ginger and I like you quite a bit, and, I (we'd) be willing to sit down and talk to you about and through everything you're dealing with. Look at me, I'm the bigest idiot in the world, and not too much to look at either, but somehow I managed to hook myself up with a fantastic woman like Ginger. It seems to me that you might benefit from friends who can love you for who you are and also offer you some perspective from our experiences. It's not a substitute for professional therapy, and not intended as a magic bullet, but both of us have been close to where you are now. We got through it, and we can lend an ear and understand without judging you. You were over here at Xmas, I think you saw how absolutely dedicated we are to each other, while still being happy with each other as complete individuals. We'd love to talk, cry, commiserate, and share with you if you think it would help. Being yourself is not that hard once you break through all of the pretenses society forces upon us, but it does take some work. Being contented with yourself is a bit harder, but trust me when I say it is the absolute key to being happy. Careers and relationships follow from that. Once you get there, the world becomes your oyster. I'd like to help you if I can.

[Weirddave]

Oh, and as far as the sex goes, don't worry about that. I've had plenty of sex, but believe it or not, it will come. Personally, I can't imagine having sex with anyone but Ginger( well, I can imagine it ') ). I just don't want to.

[theLaughingMan]

I can relate to Agent Foxtrot's predicament. I'm a nice, quiet, caring guy. Yeah, a little needy, oh and there's one more nice little fact. I have scars all over my forearms from a semi-serious suicide attempt. That will get the ladies! :smack: I'm trying to take things slow, and deal with my own insecureties, but damn, I guess I'm happier when I'm in a relationship. Trust me, no self-repecting woman likes to be the "fixer" and those who do usually have plenty of issues of their own. I suppose I would say here "friends will help you through the times" but, I don't have any local peer group. I hope I'm not alone for the rest of my life, but it's getting on two+ years...

[gobear]

I haven't got much to add that, having met you IRL, I thought you were very cool and enjoyable to talk to, and, yes, good-looking. I think maybe you're letting a focus on the "needs improvement" areas of your life run down your entire self-image. Be patient with yourself, stop expecting your life to run on a timetable, and the right girl will come. But she won't be a cure-all, just your girl. The impetus to repair your flaws must come from you.

Hey, if Weirdave can find true love, then there's hope for anybody. :D

[Time Like Tears]

This is speaking from my experience as a woman who's had too many boyfriends expect me to 'fix' them or were too 'needy';

The only thing that's wrong with you, Agent, is that you're convinced there's something wrong with you. There's not. You're you, warts and all, and any 'issues' you see within yourself are part of who you are.

Without knowing you at all, I can honestly say that asking for advice puts you in a small percentage of very dateable men.

Wanna meet people? Become a regular at Waffle House (or any other diner style place with regular customers). Seriously. Just try to hold off on the food, and don't date the servers.

[Incubus]

I was in a somewhat similar situation you were in. I really hated being single, but I felt 'hopless' when it came to meeting people. I felt emotionally handicapped; as if I lacked some essential component everyone else had that leads to healthy relationships. I thought I was just one walking turnoff to women. What did I do?

Well, for starters, focused on other aspects of my life. The posters who mentioned keeping down a job are dead-on. It will definitely help. Working at something you enjoy/excel in with build your self-confidence. When you try something new and enjoy it, it makes it easier to try other things and take bigger emotional risks. I'm betting there have been a lot of situations you conciously or subconciously passed over, because of anxiety. Once you work through your issues on a more general level (your overall satisfaction) things will get a little easier.

Another problem some people can have is being oversensitive. I see it in a lot of my peers. These are individuals who have problems that are fixable, but when they get constructive criticism from other people, they take it personally and get upset. Since they think they were mistreated/insulted, they don't take the advice and whatever behavioral flaw they had stays with them. Sometimes you have to hear really embarassing things people are annoyed about you, and just try to improve yourself.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Okay, let's get a few things straight.


I do not need to be around this person 24/7. I won't follow her around or ask her to marry me after a week. I have my life, she has hers. Once a week or so for starters is just fine.
I do not need someone else to have fun. I've been on my own for years and years. I've learned how to enjoy things by myself. I will continue to do things I enjoy with or without a significant other. Would things be a bit more fun with someone else? Of course! But I don't and won't sit in my apartment miserable. And frankly, believe it or not, there are times I just want to be alone.
I don't blame my parents for all my problems. Some people have lives a little harder than others. My parents have apologized, and there's nothing I can do to change my past. Like I said, I was offering reasoning behind my need for a bit of nuturing.
I'm not unemployed. I said it was difficult to hold a job. Not impossible.
I am already on medication for ADD. Adderall works wonders for adult ADD.
I'm not friendless. I've lost touch with some people over the years after moving to Catonsville, and yes, perhaps I should go out and see my existing friends more. But that's an issue completely separate from this one.
I am not asking my dad for help. He's currently in the hospital with half his body paralyzed from a stroke. He fades in and out of confusion. He's hanging on to his own life right now. He needs me right now, not the other way around.
I am not deflecting advice or constructive criticism from anyone who replied. I felt pretty ganged up on in this thread, like people were sick of hearing from people complaining about loneliness. Some of the threads here were pretty negative and made a lot of assumptions without having met me. And some things said were pretty damn harsh without needing to be.

To sum, yes, there are times where I get extremely unhappy. Who doesn't? I guess the thing I've missed the most is cuddling. Just to hold someone and be held. Many people find wonderful lovers who don't deserve them. Many are making it sound like I don't deserve someone until I fix myself. SallyCan'tDance put it perfectly:
I've observed a huge amount of "emotionally-fucked-up" people that have frequent relationships. People who are abusive, selfish, stupid, sociopathic even, do often have a partner that puts up with them for whatever convoluted reason. This doesn't mean that these relationships are healthy or good for the partners' quality of life in any way. Sometimes it is far far better to be single. YMMV.
Life isn't fair.

[gobear]

To sum, yes, there are times where I get extremely unhappy. Who doesn't? I guess the thing I've missed the most is cuddling. Just to hold someone and be held. Many people find wonderful lovers who don't deserve them. Many are making it sound like I don't deserve someone until I fix myself.

I don't know where that comes from--everyone should be loved and have someone to cuddle. Like I said, I really liked meeting you and I'm surprised that you don't have a girlfriend. You're intelligent, fun to to talk to, and you're definitely handsome. You have a lot going for you, and it seems that you're letting the negative feedback from within and without get the better of you.

You are loveable and you will be loved by the right woman.

[GingerOfTheNorth]

Adam, I like you. You do not come across as too loud, at all. And like Dave said, come over and see us when you need or want to. We've got big ears and we'll listen. And probably feed you.

[Weirddave]

Hey, if Weirdave can find true love, then there's hope for anybody. :D
Yer just jealous she got to me before you did. Get over it. :p

[Stranger On A Train]

I felt sufficiently compelled to respond to this that I actually made the enormous effort of prying my wallet from my pocket, pulling out my credit card, and paying for a subscription. :cool: Hi all!

First of all, Foxtrot, let me offer some of that empathy that you are requesting. (not sympathy...you know that you're your own biggest problem.) Without going into detail, I'll say that my upbringing was similar in many ways to yours. I know where you're coming from and what you're going through, 'cause I have the same problem. (It's been since early 2002 for me.)

When I first read the responses to the OP in this thread some of them really pissed me off. Read Dale Carnegie? Take up a hobby? Go dancing? My instinct is to snap back: "You people don't have a farking clue!" Then I re-read through the responses and realized that almost every poster (even drpepper who I pretty much catagorically disagree with) is offering, if not empathy, at least some kind of support. The problem is that a lot of it couched in terms of some kind of advice, much of which comes across as critical, impersonal, and frequently inappropriate. It's not that it's not good advice--a lot of it is excellent and nearly all of if it is well-intentioned--but like almost all advice it is more appropriate to the advisor than the recipient.

For instance the "How to Win Friends..." or "Take a dancing class" advice; these are excellent ways to learn communication skills and meet people. Judging by the responses of a few posters who have met him, he doesn't have any problem communicating; his problem is that he thinks he has a problem, i.e. too loud, inappropriate, et cetera. Clearly, he doesn't have a problem actually meeting people, either--he has a problem connecting with the people he meets, which of course, makes one feel like a failure at meeting people and results in avoidant behavior.

In short, his problems (IMHO, IANAD, and all that) are a deep-seated insecurity and anxiety. The "I can't meet people, speak inappropriately, et cetera" are just an excuse to avoid bringing up situations where he feels insecure or anxious. Offering up a few pointers on social edicate or a recommending an activity doesn't begin to address the problem. How many remember the scene from "Taxi Driver" where Bickle (DeNiro) approaches The Wizard (Peter Boyle) for help with the "bad things in his head", only to get a long spiel about "be who you are, learn to accept your place, yada yada"?

Much of this advice, while well-meant, is similarly superficial. Foxtrot isn't just a little unhappy, he isn't just kind of lazy, he isn't just "in a rut"; he's in a self-reinforcing downward spiral. Some of this advice might work, for a while, but when it fails, it comes down with a crippling blow. As an example, when my last girlfriend suddenly broke up with me, the easy sort of equilbrium that I was then enjoying (and assuming to indicate that I was over my past issues) evaporated like steam in a Chinese laundry. I sank into a deep depression that was totally out of proportion to the reality (loss of a 1 year relationship) of the situation. It didn't help that I had few supportive friends, no family, lost my job and had to pick up and move halfway across the country a few months later, even though my destination was sunny Southern California. Any relatively healthy person would "roll with the punches" and appreciate the many good things about the new situation (lovely climate, ocean and mountains, freedom to pursue others.) Me, I've cycled through just hoping it'll feel a little better to suicidal depression for the last three years.

Foxtrot, again, I offer up a serving of empathy. You're not the only person to go through this, and though many people don't really understand that this isn't just some existential ennui that can be drowned out with activity, there are a lot of people who want to help you.

Here is, for what it is worth, my advice to you:

1. Keep going with the therapy: (Wow, did I say that? :eek: ) I used to think it was so much bullshit. Actually, I used to think feeling any emotions other than anger and pleasure were bullshit. (Thanks, Dad.) So, of course, talking about them was bullshit. Now, I'll be the first to point out that a lot of therapy is crap; all the labels and catagories and who didn't give you what you wanted on your eighth birthday--crap. The thing is, defining the labels, and talking about the reasons you hold a grudge for some long-should-be-forgotten transgression gets past all the crap you feed yourself and lets you get to the real reasons that you're upset.

The point of therapy isn't to assign blame, or find a peer group with whom to sit around and gripe, or anything of the like. The point is to get you to start thinking about the real reason that your brain is giving you the idea that you can't communicate and no one likes you. That's nothing more than bad programming; but you can't start debugging code until you know the language. Trying to tack on some kind of superficial fix (whether by loading up on activities or resigning yourself to being a codependant something-or-another) is like Microsoft grafting poorly thought-out features onto overbloated, bug-ridden code. (Hi, Bill!)

2. Be honest with yourself: If you feel bad, you feel bad. Growing up where I did, watching other children endure physical and occasional sexual abuse from their parents, I didn't feel like I had any right to feel bad that my parents were (for the most part) merely neglectful and (sometimes) verbally abusive. Even when my mother threatened to kill me (not in jest or as an idle threat) I didn't really feel that I had right to complain. I wasn't coming to school with missing teeth or slitting my wrists because my father was raping me for five years, like some of the kids I knew. But I felt bad, alone, abandoned, all the same. I was justified in feeling that way. I still do, even though I'm not in that situation anymore. I need to change that, but for years, through struggling (unnecessarily) in college, through a failed marriage, through years of self-isolation, I just totally denied that it was even a problem. The world was a cruel place, I just didn't fit into it, and that was that. No problem. :confused:

3. Find some way to connect with people in a non-critical environment: Part of "getting over" your problems is learning that you can be accepted, that people like being around you, like talking to you, like touching you. (No, not there. Well, I mean, certain select people... :D ) Group therapy (eeg! There I go again! I sound like Ann Freaking Landers with the therapy shilling!) can be pretty useful for this. There are rules, there's a moderator, and everybody there is there because they have problems...just like you! Mind you, you need to find a group that works for you, but discovering that you aren't the only one that feels this way reduces your sense of isolation.

4. Get a massage: No, not with "Happy Ending". :rolleyes: Seriously, humans are social animals who have an inbuilt desire for physical contact. If you grew up in an environment like I did, where hugging was verboten and the only allowed contact was punching and backslapping (unless you were a jock, in which case everything short of fondling another man's testes was acceptible) you've probably repressed your desire, but the need is still there. Getting a massage is highly theraputic; even though it is a nominally impersonal exchange of money for services, you feel like you've connected and fullfilled that contact need. (Tricking the programming by giving it false input, see.) Good massues will probably try to engage you in conversation and otherwise make you feel comfortable. I was astonished at how much better this made me feel, and I kick myself for not doing it more often. Shop around and you'll find that you can get a massage pretty cheap, as long as you're not insisting on the lastest "deep tissue" fad.

5. Take care of yourself: (This coming from the guy who keeps putting off going to the dentist. :rolleyes: ) If you feel like shit, you're going to feel like shit. Get some exercise. Eat good stuff. All that jazz. You know the drill.

6. Let the rest of the stuff take care of itself: Trying to "just do it", to go out and socialize when you feel terrible, to berate yourself for not getting more out of life, to shame yourself by not being Julio Sauve, to fret about not making investments...look, you're setting yourself up to fail (and so are all of the other respondants by insisting that you just "get over it") by expecting this to all go away like turning off a light. Set small, modestly challenging goals that you can achieve and that make you feel a sense of accomplishment. (Some days, just doing the laundry is an accomplishment.) Realize that when you are ready to move onto bigger things (a better-paying job, a serious romantic relationship) you'll be enthusiastic, or at least hopeful, about them. Not that they will or should be easy, or straightforward, or that you won't be anxious, but it'll be the good kind of anxious; the kind you feel when you know you'll ace the test, or are waiting for the first date with the cute little redhead in Finance, or whatever. You've had 20+ years for your environment to toss your ship around the stormy seas, and most of that has been either out of your control, or you've lacked the tools and knowledge to deal with it. It's going to take time, and finite resources, to get your yacht into ship-shape condition.

7. Finally (finally!), realize that other people have problems too: Some people's problems, or their ways of dealing with them, aren't like yours. Some people deal with their problems by lashing out at everyone else; we call them assholes. (Hi, Dad's Wife!) Some people are just like you, only you'll never meet them becuase they are just as wrapped up and isolated in their own misery as you are in yours. Some people have problems that are unfixable, or at least result in severely reduced functioning, like autistics or paedophiles. (Note to the autism crowd: I was not comparing autistics to paedophiles.) You've got a little of that with your ADD, but it sounds like it's largely treatable. The other problems are completely fixable (and mostly related to your own perception of yourself, to hear it told by others.) As bad as things may be, they really aren't that bad, which I know isn't much comfort when you're feeling alone and grim, but by repeating that to yourself, you can get through the dark spots.

Frankly, I realize that I'm offering up this advice more to excise my own demons than in the notion that it'll provide a revelationj that will somehow make you all better. I imagine standing outside myself and advising me on what to do. Maybe some or all of this doesn't apply to you, and if so feel free to ignore it. But know that you're not the only one, that just becuase So-and-So had a Worse Childhood (and there's always someone who did) and Never Looked Back On The Way To Becoming Champion Of The World, doesn't mean that you are wrong for feeling bad. Don't fall into the trap of self-pity and committed helplessness, but don't deny that you have bad feelings either. And even though some of the advice people give you may sound critical, it's a response to your plight, and attempt to help you. It may not be the empathy you're looking for, but it's an illustration that people are trying to reach out to you, to comfort you, and offer help. Take it for what it is, and don't let the criticism get to you.

Don't give up.

Stranger

[Celyn]

Aploogies for merely contributing a sort of "drive-by" if it seems that way, but I'll say that Stranger's advice sounds pretty damn good.

Very best wishes with everything, Agent Foxtrot.
:)

[norinew]

I really liked meeting you and I'm surprised that you don't have a girlfriend. You're intelligent, fun to to talk to, and you're definitely handsome.
Seconded! And for what it's worth, I think you should take Dave and Ginger up on their offer to spend some time with them. Between the two of them, there's a lot of wisdom and stuff. Oh, and Ginger's a good cook. :)

[Horrifying Howler Monkey]

I know where you are coming from Agent Foxtrot, I'm a 25 year old gal and I feel the same way sometimes.
The last guy I went out with lied, cheated on me, and stole from me. But I was sure I loved him. He took off, and for weeks I hoped he would come back, even though I knew what a jerk he was. I would sit inside for hours hoping he would call, it was pathetic. Finally I went away, I booked a week off work and went camping in the middle of nowhere, no phone, so I knew he wouldn't be calling, and I could do something other than obsses over him. That's what it took, after that I wouldn't have to compulsivly check my phone messages, or make sure I was home when he got off work. I realise now that I never loved him, I just loved the idea of being with someone. I'm not saying I don't miss him, every so often I get the urge to call him, but I haven't.
So right now I'm alone, but that's okay too, not that I wouldn't rather be with someone, but you can't rely on someone else to make you happy.

[Oregon sunshine]

Life and self can seem very negative and "bad" when one is
a) low-income, and
b) going without sex and affection.

I spent most of my 20s living in a trailer, trying to raise my daughter on minimum wage. For five years, I didn't have sex - there were a few first dates, but beyond that, nothing. I questioned every single good thing I had once believed about myself. When no one lays a hand on your body for so many years, I think it takes a lot out of you. Not to mention, in my situation, I was so poor I couldn't even buy a new pack of socks or underwear when I needed them. Day after day of that kind of stuff, and anyone would be doubting themselves in every way.

It really helped simply to finish college and get a decent job, as well as meet a couple of people who were willing to date me (and love me in their own way). I still haven't found my Happy Ending (TM) like Prince Charming and all that, but the relief found in enough money and a little affection has been tremendous. I'd be willing to bet you are seeing your life (and yourself) through shit-colored glasses mainly because of the unrelenting nature of doing without.

I can't say anything else that Stranger On A Train has said better. Email me if you want to just communicate with someone who has been in similar straits and who would love to lend a caring (virtual) ear to correspondence. Loneliness sucks.

[Amazon Floozy Goddess]

Adam, I'm sorry you're feeling so bad right now. I've 'been there, done that' on a lot of the levels you're on. There's nothing 'wrong' with you that isn't wrong with everybody else; that is to say, everyone's got their share of faults (if you want to call them that), even the ones who seem to have everything. Hell, I've had depression and ADD since I was about 8, the depression wasn't diagnosed till I was 16, and they didn't catch the ADD till last year (!). Now, I'm finally on the right meds & therapy and I'm feeling some semblance of normalcy. I was labelled a freak in school, I was a fat kid, kind of a loner (not necessarily by choice) and had only one boyfriend before I was 19. I totally know where you're coming from from the loneliness standpoint. I think you're feeling particularly overwhelmed right now b/c of the situation with your dad. You need a shoulder to lean on and it just doesn't feel like there's one there. I've spent my share of painful nights lying in bed, wishing to feel someone's embrace, but just feeling so alone. I'd say that the best thing right now would be to reach out to as many friends & family as you can. All I can say relationship-wise is: Ride it out for now. A lot of people are right in saying you need to get yourself together before you get a girlfriend. I wish someone had given me that advice years ago - it would have saved me a lot of crappy relationships. :)

FWIW, Adam, I think you're a real sweet guy. There's a great girl that's gonna be comin' to ya, I know it.

You have my email, feel free to use it if you need a cybershoulder, k? :)

[Rashak Mani]

Try some of these tips: David D'Angelo Tips (http://www.bullz-eye.com/relationships/dating_advice.htm)

Some sounds like horribly chavinistic... but all of it has some grain of truth ! :)

Overall I'd say your problem is looking needy and feeling bad... women see that right away. Start slow... relax and don't be so OVER. Naturally stop being picky or choosy if you are. Slowly get your "ego" back into shape so that women won't run away.
(Maybe your just sticking around some sad and cold community... maybe you should live elsewhere ?)

[taxi78cab]

I don't know you and I don't know your situation so I could be way off. But your problems don't sound all-encompassing. Other Dopers who've met you seem to think you're a good guy. You take care of yourself and have had relationships. It sounds TO ME like this is just a really difficult time for you with your father being in the hospital (It's funny how, even if your/one's parents weren't the greatest, their illness and the possibility of losing them is greatly distressing.) and realizing that it's been more than a year since you've been in a relationship and other things piling on. From my experience and that of others close to me, once a few things start piling up, everything else becomes overwhelming. The things that wouldn't normally bother you become huge issues.

I don't have any advice, but I don't think you're anywhere near hopeless. You've got a lot of things going for you and once the stressful, difficult times are past, I think you'll be able to see them again. (As I said, I may be way off base, but my point is everything that's going right now is making it tough to see the things you have going for you. If/when you can see those things, confidence will follow more easily than trying to find it in the midst of very difficult personal circumstances. I'm normally a confident, well-adjusted person. But when depression strikes, I feel like I am worthless, like no one likes me and there's no reason for them to like me. That's what this sounds like to me.)

Good luck. Your Doper friends are all pulling for you.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Stranger on a Train - Would you please email me? Thank you.

Adam

[Shirley Ujest]

Finally (finally!), realize that other people have problems too: Some people's problems, or their ways of dealing with them, aren't like yours. Some people deal with their problems by lashing out at everyone else; we call them assholes. (Hi, Dad's Wife!) Some people are just like you, only you'll never meet them becuase they are just as wrapped up and isolated in their own misery as you are in yours. Some people have problems that are unfixable


Some people lash out as a way of dealing with your problem because Your problem is fucking miniscule and a mustard seed compared to Their Problem which you view is microscopic and the size of a dandelion seed. [ b]Everyone is fucked in the head[/b] Once you understand this basic tenet in human behavior it will be much easier to deal with homosapiens. and prone ( or conditioned, take your pick) to whine about their own problems. No one listens anymore ( or very few) and those that do listen, if you can find them, do them the courtesy of listening back to their problems.

Here's what I've Learned. YMMV

1.Everyone has had a hard life.
2. Those that say they have had it easy are deluded and probably should be avoided.
3. Everyone is fucked in the head.
4. Once you realize #3, it is kind of fun to view the other people as " Huh, I wonder what his/her problem/issue/baggage is?"
5. Then you can surround yourself with emotionally trainwrecked people and BE A God-Goddess. Ok, scratch 5. This would be an ample time for me to shout out to my SIL " Remind you of anyone?"
6.You can surround yourself with people who have the emotional integrity (no, that is not an oxymoron) that meshes with your own or would like to have and it can help make you a better person.
7. Get a pet. They listen unconditionally and start writing a manifesto, a rambling one is best.
8. I got nothin'.

We cannot change the wind, but we can adjust our sails.


Stranger on a Train you offer excellent advice. Actually, I liked all the advice from everyone because it is well meant.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

2. Check out or buy "How to Win Friends and Influence People". Corny? Yeah, but it's generally true, and emphasizes behaviors you should probably start practicing over and over.
.

This is actually an entertaining read. Dale Carnegie did have the knack for making you want to keep listening to or reading his words.

[Knowed Out]

I am not deflecting advice or constructive criticism from anyone who replied. I felt pretty ganged up on in this thread, like people were sick of hearing from people complaining about loneliness. Some of the threads here were pretty negative and made a lot of assumptions without having met me. And some things said were pretty damn harsh without needing to be.

I see a lot of this from people who ask for advice, then reject the suggestions as personal attacks. That's a big problem.

Learn that they're not insulting you when they offer advice. I know it feels belittling, but you just have to realize your approach to solve your problems may not be enough. The other people on this thread have either been there themselves or encountered people like you before. They're telling you what turned them off. They're telling you what worked and didn't work for them. Don't take it personally. You'll only be adding to the problems you already have. Just LISTEN to them.

They're NOT attacking you. They're NOT insulting you. They're trying to offer you ADVICE and sometimes it's not what you want to hear, but it's just a DIFFERENT OPINION than yours. That's all. Don't make something out of it that it's not.

[Agent Foxtrot]

I don't mean to resurrect this thread, but I haven't had a lot of time to reply in the past few days.

I knew people were going to think I was being argumentative and deflecting all the advice. I have taken all the advice in this thread into account, despite my belligerent appearance. Some of you have sent me emails with a lot of good advice (StrangerOnATrain, I'll be emailing you soon). I just also felt that some people were particularly harsh when they didn't need to be (and some agreed with me in email).

Just to update:

I already have a pet. Two cats, as a matter of fact.
I'll be checking out that book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. I've heard a lot of good things about it.
I'll be looking into a state-sponsored behavioral health program.


Adam