No sweetie, running away and getting married isn't the answer

[DiosaBellissima]

This is a letter to my stupid-ass friend. I apologize for the lack of vulgarity and the length, but I'm pissed....ok here! FUCKINGSONOFABARBARASTREISANDFROZENTAMPONPOPSICLEBITCHCOCKWHOREMONKEYDOUCHE


Dear my best friend since middle school,

Sweetie, we all know you are in love. Yes, you guys have been dating for two years. That's wonderful!

I'll admit, although he is one of our friends- none of us really liked you dating him. He changed you- and not for the better. You became snarky, short tempered, and judgemental to all of us and you spent all your time baby talking and being snuggled up with him. Your GPA dropped from a 4.0 to close to a 2.0 because you'd stay up until 4 AM talking on the phone to him. You stopped doing things with anyone but him; and when we'd finally get you to agree to hang out with us, somehow he'd magically show up with you.

That's fine. You were 16. That level of stupidity is expected from a 16 year old. We figured you would go to college and meet someone who better reflects your personality and shares your life goals. Well, instead of going to UCSB like you wanted, you chose to go to CSUB so you could be closer to him. Your family was a bit disappointed, but that's fine.

Honey, now you're about to turn 19. I know at 19 we don't know everything, but we damn well should have more sense then we did a few years ago.

Look, he got kicked out of junior college for not attending almost the entire semester. His mother, who he lived with, told him to get a job if he wasn't going to go to school. He applied at McDonalds, Jack in the Box, and Taco Bell. When he didn't get any of those jobs, he expressed that the job market in our area was completed exhausted of jobs. His mom kicked him out. Rightfully so, if you ask me.

You cashed out all of your scholarship money and gave it to him. Right now he's living off of the money you earned for your education. Stupid, but whatever.

He asked you to marry him. You said yes. Of course, when he asked he didn't have a ring, so you went to the mall and bought your own wedding ring (because, you know, he has NEVER had a job and has absolutely no credit). I'm a modern thinkin' woman, that's cool. Still a dumb move on your behalf, but whatever. Live and learn and so on.

But, do you know what really bothers me, dear friend? That YOU dropped out of school. You didn't even take your finals last quarter! You have all incompletes. How stupid are you? You had straight A's! You dropped out so you can move with him to Texas next month to live with his dad. His dad who has a career working at a home supply store making minimum wage. You have absolutely no intention of ever going back to school and either does your dear fiance. Oh, that's right. Everything will be ok. His dad MIGHT have lined him up a job at McDonalds...probably.

Your mother is crushed. Her beautiful, brilliant daughter has completely thrown her life away for a bum who is too lazy to even get a minimum wage job. Your mom works at the high school we went to- the high school where I coach a debate team. Are you aware that she's been sitting at her desk for the past week crying hysterically? All she manages to say to the people that are there consoling her is, "love is blind." Damn right it is.

You know what's so ironic? Not three weeks ago we were talking about our other friends who were getting married and you went on and on about how stupid it is to get married at our age. What changed?

I can't belive you could be such a dip shit. You were the LAST one we would EVER expect to pull this. This whole damn situation would be a whole lot funnier if it wasn't for the fact that I am going to have to pay to take care of your kids in a few years.

Sincerely,

Your Ex Friend
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Lord Ashtar]

You know what's so ironic? Not three weeks ago we were talking about our other friends who were getting married and you went on and on about how stupid it is to get married at our age. What changed?
She was asked.

It's always sad to see someone throw away a promising future for a boyfriend or girlfriend. Here's to hoping she gets her act together.

[monica]

I know that you're upset at the stupidity of her actions, but why are you declaring yourself her ex-friend? It seems that she really needs a friend right now, and now is not the time to back out.

[DiosaBellissima]

I know that you're upset at the stupidity of her actions, but why are you declaring yourself her ex-friend? It seems that she really needs a friend right now, and now is not the time to back out.


I totally see your point, but she didn't even tell any of us she was getting engaged..or moving across the entire country. She didn't even tell me that she dropped out of school last quarter. We all assumed she just had a different schedule then us when we didn't see her around this quarter. I found all this out from various places: the head forensics coach talked to her mom , one of the debaters had also talked to her mom, and my friend works at the jewellery store where they bought the ring. She obviously doesn't want anything to do with any of us otherwise she would have at least called.

[lel]

And five years from now, she's could well be divorced with a kid or two, perpetually broke, and if she's lucky, working perhaps for eight bucks an hour, stuck in Texas, trying to make ends meet, and busy 25 hours a day.

And that's when she'll have to go back to school to get anywhere. I sure don't envy her. Many people have made it great places from such situations, but it sure isn't going to be easy.

PS: I'm not judging anything, but alarms are going off in my head about this guy. He could be great, but just from the changes in her personality and the way it seems like he can absolutely control her, I fear the worst.

[GaWd]

She was asked.

It's always sad to see someone throw away a promising future for a boyfriend or girlfriend. Here's to hoping she gets her act together.

Or, she's pregnant...

That's another thing that can change a young girl's tune in an instant. Sorry to hear about your friend. The good news is that she's young. If she's NOT pregnant and just doing this because she's being an idiot, and if she manages to keep from getting pregnant in the near future, it's all do-overable.

A divorce and/or a failed relationship and moveaway are all repairable at her age. When I was not many years older than her I was in a relationship with a woman(who had several children), that went predictably sour after moving away from home. After several months of wound-licking I was almost back to normal and learned LOTS of very important lessons.

Sam

[DiosaBellissima]

lel I don't think you are being any more judgemental than I am. It's just a stupid situation all around. Although, I get the impression you might think he is abusive in one way or another- I can assure you that isn't the case. I am by no means saying it is a healthy relationship; he always used to say that if she left him, he'd kill himself (I don't think he was exaggerating). He would never hurt her though, she is the only important thing to him. He's waaay overweight (370+) and his doctor said if he doesn't change things he is guarenteed a heart attack within 5 years. He doesn't even care about himself enough to make lifestyle changes to guarentee he'll be alive. All he cares about is her.

Oh..my...GaWd ((hehe)), that's exactly what I've been saying to all our friends. I think she's pregnant. Why else would they move to Texas? It's cheaper to live here.

Her sister got pregnant and married at 16. Luckily for her, she married a wonderful, dedicated, hardworking guy. They are still married 11 years later with 4 great kids. I think she is looking at her sister and saying, "Man, I can do that, too!" I don't think she gets that her sis is a really, really rare case.

[35340]

And five years from now, she's could well be divorced with a kid or two, perpetually broke, and if she's lucky, working perhaps for eight bucks an hour, stuck in Texas, trying to make ends meet, and busy 25 hours a day.

And that's when she'll have to go back to school to get anywhere. I sure don't envy her. Many people have made it great places from such situations, but it sure isn't going to be easy.

PS: I'm not judging anything, but alarms are going off in my head about this guy. He could be great, but just from the changes in her personality and the way it seems like he can absolutely control her, I fear the worst.

That woulda been me if not for the luck of the draw on fertility. I got out before I got knocked up. Thank the gods I went away from his influence for a few months, too ... knocked some sense right into me.

[Cat Whisperer]

Ah, jeeze, I hate to hear about a young person making such crappy decisions. Looking in my crystal ball, I see her as a single mom ten years from now, pissing and moaning about how hard her life is, and blaming everyone but herself.

One reason that she's cut herself off from her old friends is that she knows, sub-consciously, just how bad her decisions are and she doesn't want to admit it to herself. Here's hoping she figures a few things out in the next couple of years.

[Cat Whisperer]

I mean, one reason might be.

[Rubystreak]

DiosaBellissima, I don't blame you for wanting to cut ties with this friend. There comes a point where you just can't watch someone ruin her life in such a blatant manner. If you had the chance to talk to her, you'd probably say things that would end the friendship anyway because she wouldn't want to hear them. I say, let her know that you're there for her, but don't coddle her-- be honest. If she needs you, she'll come back, and if she doesn't, you did what you could.

[JeffyDMan]

So, did you actually send this to her?

If not, maybe you should. Sometimes people just need a wakeup-call. I know I did.

I used to be sort of like this guy.. lazy, dropped out, couldn't hold a job (mind you, I never lowered anyone else's life to that level, nor did I take advantage of anyone on this bastard's elvel :eek: ). I got a wakeup call from a good friend of mine.. 6 months later I had my GED, and now I'm in my own apartment with a job that pays fairly well for my knowledge level. :)

Again, if you haven't send this - send it. But nix the ex-friend part of it until she shows no motivation to change her ways.

[DiosaBellissima]

featherlou I completely agree. She's slowly pulled away from us over the last several months in particular. And I'm not a betting woman, but if I was- I'd put money on your prediction. My dear friend RandMcNally said it best, "This whole thing would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that we are going to be paying for her kids to live in a couple years."

Rubystreak You're totally right about me probably saying something that would end the friendship anyway. I'm a very, very, very blunt and honest person. That's the exact reason I haven't called her, I know I will say something stupid. I have called her fiance *he has my Chapelle's Show DVD*, but we only talked for a minute.

[DiosaBellissima]

JeffyDMan She wouldn't listen- trust me on this. She wouldn't even listen to her own mother, grandmother and sister. Apparently, they are decided. I think at this point it's more of to prove to everyone that they can.

I get how this might seem like a decent plan in the short term. "Yeah! SCREW 'EM! We'll move across the country and PROVE we're grown ups!!" But (and I'm sure they haven't thought of this) what about long term? Are they always going to survive on minimum wage jobs? Living with their parents (not her parents--- her mom has always HATED him. His parents think this is a wonderful idea..probably because he could never do better)? :confused: Bah.

[lezlers]

[QUOTE=DiosaBellissimaI am by no means saying it is a healthy relationship; he always used to say that if she left him, he'd kill himself (I don't think he was exaggerating). He would never hurt her though, she is the only important thing to him. He's waaay overweight (370+) and his doctor said if he doesn't change things he is guarenteed a heart attack within 5 years. He doesn't even care about himself enough to make lifestyle changes to guarentee he'll be alive. All he cares about is her.[/QUOTE]

Okay, first thing, he doesn't give a shit about her. If he did, he wouldn't allow her to throw her life away for him. His actions here are totally, completely selfish and don't you go thinking for a minute that they're anything but. I assume he knew she was a 4.0 student, aspired to go to UCSB and had a circle of caring friends and family? I also assume he's aware she initially attended a "lower" school to be closer to him, then dropped out of school all together and is causing more than a little strife with her friends and family? Comon'. This boy (I refuse to call him a man) cares about no one but himself. And the whole threatening to kill himself if she leaves him? Yeah, she's the one he cares about. :rolleyes:

Of course, she's to blame here as well, I'm by no means pinning this entirely on him. And she'll end up paying the price. I guess now we can only hope she won't completely alienate everyone who cares about her in the meantime. The only thing worse than waking up and realizing "oh god, I'm ruining my life!" is looking around and realizing there's no longer anyone there to help and support you once you make that realization.

[lel]

Okay, first thing, he doesn't give a shit about her. If he did, he wouldn't allow her to throw her life away for him. His actions here are totally, completely selfish and don't you go thinking for a minute that they're anything but. I assume he knew she was a 4.0 student, aspired to go to UCSB and had a circle of caring friends and family? I also assume he's aware she initially attended a "lower" school to be closer to him, then dropped out of school all together and is causing more than a little strife with her friends and family? Comon'. This boy (I refuse to call him a man) cares about no one but himself. And the whole threatening to kill himself if she leaves him? Yeah, she's the one he cares about. :rolleyes:

While as long as it's not physically abusive, I'm glad, but I still don't like this. I mean, he's letting her give him all her scholarship money instead of hunkering down and really looking for a job? He watches her go to a lower school and drop out because of him and doesn't do anything about it?

I have to agree, it sounds like the one he cares about is he, himself, and him.

[smiling bandit]

Sadly, and despite the assumptions of nearly everyone I’ve ever met, intelligence is absolutely no bar to stupidity. Indeed, some of the dumbest folks I know are also the wisest. Life is weird.

Frankly, if I ever had a girlfriend who wanted to talk to me until midnight every night, let alone 4 am, I’d suggest she think about getting a hobby. Even the people I love probably don’t interest me enough to talk that long on end – if I love someone, it’s enough to be with them. Granted, individuals and/or women may feel different about this. But I imagine I am not so fascinating as to lead anyone to talk with me for whole days at a time.

I’m curious as to your exact relationship with the woman in question. You mention paying money to take care of her kids.

[MannyL]

I’m curious as to your exact relationship with the woman in question. You mention paying money to take care of her kids.

She means our tax dollars will support her on welfare

[DiosaBellissima]

lezlers You're totally right. He's very manipulative. I guess I meant he'd never physically abuse her. Mental abuse is just as bad- if not worse.

It bothers me that he's living off of her scholarship money. She wasn't given that money to support her slacker fiance. What's worse is: they are using that money now, what the hell are they going to live off of in Texas? I don't even know how they are paying for the gas to get there. She JUST bought a new car. I have no idea how she plans on making the payments/insurance.


smiling bandit Amen. The smartest people I know totally lack common sense. The thing is, she always had sense. That's why no one understands her motivation here. And I completely agree about the talking for hours on end thing. My ex and I barely could find things to talk about while we were hanging out (hmm, maybe that's why we broke up! :D ) let alone for 5-7 hours a night after spending 8 hours a day at school together.

We have been friends since 7th grade. We did everything together: went on trips together, stayed at each other's houses, talked on the phone, gossiped..all that teenage girl stuff. We were best friends. When she started dating him she started to change...we've drifted apart since then.

[Hostile Dialect]

JeffyDMan She wouldn't listen- trust me on this. She wouldn't even listen to her own mother, grandmother and sister. Apparently, they are decided. I think at this point it's more of to prove to everyone that they can.


Of course she wouldn't--they're her own mother, grandmother and sister. Speaking as a fellow young person--and I'm sure you realize this--we all think we know more than our predecessors who have been there, done that. It's a good thing we think that, because when we're right it's a wonderful thing and we can blaze great new trails, and when we're wrong we can usually go back and say "Sorry Mom, you were right."

You need to tell her, because you're her friend and peer. Maybe she'll listen to you. If she doesn't, that sucks. But give it a chance, for her sake and yours.

[Delly]

JeffyDMan suggested sending the letter, I just wanted to second that idea. I know you think she probably won't listen, but what harm can it do? Why not write a similar letter to her fiance? Someone really needs to get this girl to do the right thing, and moving to Texas with no education, no job and no form of income is just not a good thing!

Maybe if you and all your mutual friends got together and wrote or called and told her how worried they you all are it may make a difference. When I was 19 I didnt listen to my parents much, but I definately paid attention to what my friends said.

Its worth considering, and what does it cost to send a letter these days?

[AuntiePam]

How about some reverse psychology?

Do you know where in Texas she's going? If you do, see if you can find information on community colleges and vocational programs, cultural offerings, employment listings and apartment rentals in that area, and share them with her.

Tell her how excited you are about her adventure -- moving to a new place, starting a new life with the man she loves. And his dad. Don't forget dad. He's probably a nice guy, happy to share his home with his grown son and a daughter-in-law, maybe even grandkids, for who knows how long.

Maybe making some plans with a friend will help her to see that there will be days and months and years to get through after the thrill of the elopement is over.

(Aren't there some rules about scholarship funds? Like spending them on an education? And showing that you did?)

[lezlers]

Aren't there some rules about scholarship funds? Like spending them on an education? And showing that you did

Geez, I had forgotten about the scholarship money. Man, this guy is a real peach, isn't he? And this girl. Well, all I can say is I second smiling bandit's theory that intelligence really has nothing to do with stupidity.

I'd imagine there'd be some rules about scholarship money. Financial aid, maybe not so much considering you've got to pay it back anyway, but scholarship funds? I'd assume there'd have to be some regulations in place governing the use of said funds, depending on the grantor.

Personally, I think you should send her the link to this thread. Sometimes seeing a bunch of stranger's opinons (the fact that they're all concurring doesn't hurt, either) helps a little. At least she can't use the "you all just hate him!" excuse when she refuses to listen to reason.

[DiosaBellissima]

As far as the scholarship money...well, this is how our school handles it. You have the grantor (in her case it's the State of California- same as mine) send the $$$ to the school. If you've already paid your tuition and such, the school sends you a refund check. I would guess her check was around $1000. The state doesn't really check to see how you spend the money, since it directly goes to the school.

If it were anyone else, I would totally agree that she needs her friends to set her straight. Unfortunately in her case, I know that it wouldn't work. You have to understand that he is really, really manipulative. She will not listen to any of us because she has him telling her the opposite. I probably sound like I'm just throwing away any idea, but I assure you we've tried before. She thinks we all just can't understand because we haven't met the love of our lives yet.

AuntiePam She knows me better then that. That is so totally out of my character that it would automatically set off alarms! :D

[DiosaBellissima]

I should mention I spent my $700 refund check on a new cell phone, a tattoo, and a trip to San Fran :D

[lel]

She thinks we all just can't understand because we haven't met the love of our lives yet.

Got any friends around your same age who are in steady relationships/engaged/married who might be able to talk to her?

Anyway, that's also about what they did with extra scholarship money at my school way back when, anything over tuition/board got refunded to you. Of course, I always ended up spending mine on mundane stuff like groceries or rent! :p

[DiosaBellissima]

Got any friends around your same age who are in steady relationships/engaged/married who might be able to talk to her?

Anyway, that's also about what they did with extra scholarship money at my school way back when, anything over tuition/board got refunded to you. Of course, I always ended up spending mine on mundane stuff like groceries or rent! :p

No, all our friends have sense! :p Only one other is engaged and about to be married and we all think she is stupid, too. She's also dropping out of schools o she can be by his side. Bah, idiots.

Hey, it's not my fault I don't have to buy groceries...blame my dad. Stupid jerk, always buying me food and giving me shelter. :wally

[Duckster]

Perhaps the best you can do is stay in touch with her and let her know that you are her friend, no matter what happens to her. Make sure you two stay in touch because she may not make the effort after she moves. Make sure she has your address and phone number(s).

Start now, before she leaves, because on the day she does go away, you will be hard pressed to say or do anything through your tears and gritted teeth.

Don't give up on her. You just might get that phone call down the road with a tearful voice that sounds so alone. Pray that you do get it.

Good luck.

[DiosaBellissima]

Duckster I gave her a call today. Her fiance had borrowed a few of my DVDs, I called him and he said she had them so to call her. I did. I left a nice message on the machine along the lines of, "Hi _____! This is Angel! ____ said you have those DVDs I lent him a while ago, I was just wondering if I could come by and pick them up. I haven't heard from you in forever. Give me a call, k?"

I really do want the DVDs. She's got my Chapelle season one, damnit.

[dangermom]

Humph. An actual loving SO would support getting an education. Don't these people know that the rule about dropping out of school if you got married was in the 40's? DangerDad put me through grad school, after I helped him finish his BA (I was already finished when we got married).

Otherwise, what everyone else said. It's terrible to see such idiocy.

[Blalron]

I'm impressed. I have a job and I can't even land a fucking date, let alone get someone to marry me. What's the world coming to?

[DiosaBellissima]

I'm impressed. I have a job and I can't even land a fucking date, let alone get someone to marry me. What's the world coming to?

How YOU doin? ;)

Hey, I'll totally buy my own ring! :wally

[Larry Borgia]

Other dopers have alluded to this, but just to emphasize:

I think she may now be in a "you and me against the world, babe" mentality. I'd bet dollars to donuts that her BF is encouraging this mentality. "They just don't understand our love." Any negative advice you give, no matter how well-meaning or logical or rooted in common sense, will have the paradoxical effect of increasing her attachment to this guy. Maybe the best thing you and your friends can do is a sort of mild reverse psychology. Don't say "I totally support the idea of you abandoning your education and moving in with your lazy obese manipulative boyfriend. I think that's the best idea ever!." Just say that she's been a good friend and you wish her the best of luck.

And I strongly disagree with the idea of showing her this thread. The more people she sees denouncing this stupid idea the more she'll be able to cast herself and her BF as Hero and Heroine Standing Alone Against A World That Just Doesn't Understand.

And get your DVD's back. :)

[CrazyCatLady]

Larry's completely, 100% right. Any negative commentary will just fuel the fire of her determination to prove everyone wrong. Because, of course, the rest of the world just doesn't understand how beautiful and special and pure and right their love is. And, of course, you petty spinsters who have never known the joy of beautiful, special, pure, right love like hers are just jealous.

Let me guess...Fatboy is sensitive and full of promise, a misunderstood genius, right? None of you who object to the pairing could ever hope to be as brilliant as he is. Heh. Make Fatboy a scrawny, fugly pseudointellectual with a pitiful attempt at a goattee and your friend the Grand High Empress of the Drama Queens, and you're living my junior year of high school and freshman year of college. Make Fatboy a fugly shitkicker, and you've got my senior year of high school. And I'll tell you from experience, you might as well just sit tight and zip it, 'cause nothing you can say is going to make a damn bit of difference. All you can really do is leave the lines of communication open for when she needs you, if you feel so inclined. Of course, if she's become really nasty and bitter and obnoxious, you might not feel so inclined.

[FinnAgain]

Sorry about the problems... my 16 year old brother just failed out of college and is now engaged and planning on moving in with his fiance, to a new house, in a new city, and neither of them have jobs.
Kids can be stupid sometimes.
But babies have to touch the stove to know that it's hot.
Here's hoping that the mistakes they make can be fixed.


Personally, I think you should send her the link to this thread.

IANAMod, but I've heard of other people getting banned for setting up "let's you and them fight" scenarios. Might wanna think on that idea before you go for it.

[DiosaBellissima]

CrazyCatLady and Larry Borgia You've hit the nail on the head; that's exactly how I feel about everything. There's nothing I can say that'll change her mind at this point.

The sad thing is, he actually is very intelligent. It always amazed me because he understands advanced math concepts without trying (alright, maybe that amazes me because I'm an "English" person and not math, but still). His problem is that he doesn't apply himself, which is sad because it's not like he'd have to work half as hard as the rest of us to understand it. He's a huge waste of a gift, it's sad.

FinnAgain No worries, I had no intention of showing her this. :) Sorry to hear about your bro, sounds like a similar situation- only worse. 16?!? Wow. You are right that you have to touch the stove (or stick your finger in the light socket) to learn that it's bad.

[JeffyDMan]

I'm impressed. I have a job and I can't even land a fucking date, let alone get someone to marry me. What's the world coming to?

You sound like me! :)

[MaxTheVool]

I'm impressed. I have a job and I can't even land a fucking date, let alone get someone to marry me. What's the world coming to?

How YOU doin? ;)

Hey, I'll totally buy my own ring! :wally

Don't do it Blalron! She may make you move to Bakersfield!!! No woman is worth that!

[Dangerosa]

The sad thing is, he actually is very intelligent. It always amazed me because he understands advanced math concepts without trying (alright, maybe that amazes me because I'm an "English" person and not math, but still). His problem is that he doesn't apply himself, which is sad because it's not like he'd have to work half as hard as the rest of us to understand it. He's a huge waste of a gift, it's sad.

And she sees that. And she will be able to change him. Because everyone knows the story of Beauty and the Beast, if she loves and supports him enough, he will bloom into a prince and realize his potential.

He won't, by the way. I'm hoping "low sperm count."

There really should be intervention for this. A place you could take her to where women in their forties would smile and nod and say "Honey, I know....I've been there." And then say "married fourteen years, did he ever mow the lawn ONCE! No. Then he left me for that hussy. Good thing - now she can wash his underwear, cook his meals and mow the lawn." Then Tammy would chime in with "yep, mine spent every penny my grandmother left me, ran up the credit card bills, we declared bankruptcy. He's still sitting on the couch, I can't bring myself to leave him, but I wish I'd never married him." Linda would say "I can't believe I left school and gave up my dreams to marry him and have his kids. Wouldn't trade the kids for the world, but it would be so much easier if we could afford even just a little. Tomato soup and shopping at the second hand store gets old, know what I mean?"

[Izzybella]

I think she may now be in a "you and me against the world, babe" mentality. I'd bet dollars to donuts that her BF is encouraging this mentality. "They just don't understand our love." Any negative advice you give, no matter how well-meaning or logical or rooted in common sense, will have the paradoxical effect of increasing her attachment to this guy. Maybe the best thing you and your friends can do is a sort of mild reverse psychology. Don't say "I totally support the idea of you abandoning your education and moving in with your lazy obese manipulative boyfriend. I think that's the best idea ever!." Just say that she's been a good friend and you wish her the best of luck.



'Fessing up--I did something similar when I was the same age and this was the exact attitude I had. Even when my parents very sensibly pointed out the benefits of waiting for a few years, I was convinced they just didn't understand. Seven years later we were divorced. I just barely finally finished my BFA degree summa cum laude (at age 32) and am working on my teacher certification.

Here's the thing. I would NOT have had the courage to move on after without the support of my friends. They really encouraged me and I can't tell you what a difference they made. As angry as several of them were (and believe me, they were as angry as you) they got over it and just continued to be there for me, even when--in retrospect--I may not have deserved it. It's obvious you really care about your friend, but I hope you are able to look past her obvious immaturity with respect to her romantic relationships. Best case scenario, it actually works out. And since that's probably a long shot, worst case scenario, she'll come to her senses after a few very difficult years of marriage. My guess is the real world is gonna kick her ass. She'll need a good friend with common sense.

Whatever you do, I get where you're coming from. Hope every thing works out for the best.

[Malthus]

Boy does this guy sound a *lot* like my best friend's worthless older brother.

This guy was always the genius, so smart no-one else could understand what he was going through. Why he needed my friend's parents to give him piles of money as a student. Why he decided being a student wasn't right for his mental state at the moment. Why he didn't get a job. Why he got married, when neither of them had jobs (unless you count leeching off of my friend's parents as full-time employment).

Meanwhile, my friend, clearly a mental midget compared to this guy, worked his way ploddingly through university, and got some boring jobs to pay for it.

What killed me was how everyone in the family deferred to this guy, and catered to his demands - he acted as if he was made for finer things than a grubby life of toil, and they seemed to believe it.

Some people are just convincing in this way.

[lezlers]

IANAMod, but I've heard of other people getting banned for setting up "let's you and them fight" scenarios. Might wanna think on that idea before you go for it.

I by no means was advocating for the OP to do anything that would get her into trouble. I believe the board rules prohibit personal fights amongst posters. Unless the OP's friend is a poster here, which I doubt, I hardly think it's against board policy to merely show someone a thread. I've seen this very suggestion given multiple times in various threads in my time here with nary a protest.

Of course, if the friend does have this "us againt the world" mentality working (which is highly likely) then it probably wouldn't do any good anyway. She's probably not smart enough to utilize the "if every last person thinks this is a bad idea maybe it is" evaluation method.

[CrazyCatLady]

I think he was probably referencing the fairly recent vanilla banning, where showing a thread to someone not associated with the board led to someone else registering to post and there being a huge, nasty dogpile on that person. So, if the OP shows this thread to her friend, and her friend shows it to Fatboy, or other friends, or whatnot, and those people take umbrage and show up here and a fight breaks out...let's just say that it's not inconceivable that she could get booted for setting up a "let's you and them fight" scenario.

And yeah, I've seen lots of people suggest showing relevant folks in real life threads about personal issues with nary a protest. But, well, that was then and this is now, so to speak. And now we've got a precedent of someone actually taking that advice and it turning out very, very badly.

[Yeticus Rex]

I'm gonna make a copy of the OP and accidentally leave it out for a special someone to read in my own household. I see some similarities of the OP in (fortunately) the early stages with my son. The grades, blowing off homework to be on the phone for hours, etc.

[DiosaBellissima]

MaxTheVool Shhhhh!!! We're trying to recruit new people to work in the oil fields!!! Don't tell him about my plan! :p

Dangerosa You know, the strange thing is that she doesn't want to change him. In our Shakespeare class we were talking about love and blah blah. She said how she was once told (by her fiance, of course), "Love is where the person you love would change for you, but you wouldn't ever want them to." Then she went off on some tangent about how she wouldn't change her boyfriend for a thing in the world.


Izzybella I'll certainly never turn my back on her, but I'm not going to actively seek out her friendship. No friendship should ever be like that; it's a two way street and such. If she needs me, I'm here. She knows where to find me.



Yeticus Rex Glad I can help, but he probably wont listen. "You guys just don't understand!!! This is different , we're in love !!!" Dumb ass teenagers. I am one, so I can say that.

[Pensandfeathers]

So she's really book smart, had common sense BEFORE she met this guy...but how is her self-esteem? If it has always been low, that could be a huge part of why she's doing this. Maybe she knows that he isn't that wonderful, but she thinks so little of herself in a romantic or relationship sense, that she feels like she needs to do whatever she can to keep him because she figures she can't do any better.

I'm not excusing her behavior, she needs to pull her head out of her ass, but I can relate to it.....

[DiosaBellissima]

So she's really book smart, had common sense BEFORE she met this guy...but how is her self-esteem? If it has always been low, that could be a huge part of why she's doing this. Maybe she knows that he isn't that wonderful, but she thinks so little of herself in a romantic or relationship sense, that she feels like she needs to do whatever she can to keep him because she figures she can't do any better.

I'm not excusing her behavior, she needs to pull her head out of her ass, but I can relate to it.....


Oh it's quite the story...leading up to the two of them dating, that is.

We were freshmen, her first bf was a senior. He ended up dumping her because they had nothing in common (ftr- I don't think they even kissed). She was heartbroken even though they'd been dating like a month. The day after they broke up, this other senior swung in to "console" her; he had a girlfriend. After a while, his girlfriend found out and he ended it with my friend (I didn't know about all this until after the fact, she didn't tell anyone). Anyway, she was once again heart broken. The next day fatboy (great nickname, btw) swung in and told her...and I quote, "Let me show you how a princess like you deserves to be treated."

She never had a real relationship before this...although, I'm not sure you can call this a real relationship either.

[DiosaBellissima]

UPDATE!

So tonight I talked to his mom.

He still lives at home with her, but she isn't happy. She is really upset about paying his bills (yes yes, there is an easy way for her to rectify this), but I can understand where she is coming from. Originally, they were leaving for Texas on the 1st of Feb, then the 14th (aw! how poetic!), then March 1st, then the summer, now Feb 26. Anyway, she agreed to pay for his shelter and such until the first of Feb.

My dear friend has decided that she will transfer to the University of Texas in the city they are going to live in when ever they get settled (this was said with much sarcasm from Mom-in-law).

Mom doesn't get how they plan on paying the bills or getting by; she is counting on that they will be coming back in a few months. She also totally agrees that they are in a "us against the world" mentality. As she put it, someone told them "no" and now they have to prove a point.

Oh yes, there will be 7 people living in the 3 bedroom house in Texas. Fun times. One is a baby. One is a child. Five are full grown adults.

And finally, the reason Mom was backing the marriage: they will be living under one roof together, you know what happens when people live together :rolleyes: . I think it's a pretty silly reason, but I totally respect her religious beliefs and can completely understand why she feels this way.

God bless them and their sweet, sweet innocense. ;)

[L. G. Butts, Ph.D.]

DiosaBellissima, can I ask a question? (there's one..., but I mean a different one.)

What is your friends relationship with her father like?

As the father of 1 (and soon to be 2!!) daugthters, I don't know what I would do in this situation. I screwed up in my teens and early 20s and was able to pull it together before I turned thirty, but still. I would want to lock her away, even though I know at 19 that is not an option (or even a wise thing to suggest). So I just want to understand why someone like your friend would do something like this.

[DiosaBellissima]

Eyer8

The father thing is an interesting point, actually. Her parents were divorced by the time she was 5, I believe. Dad wasn't really in her life- up and moved across the country one day and she didn't see him for a few years. He came back to town with his new girlfriend and my friend saw him pretty often. He had a good job but never, ever paid child support. One day her mom went to the DA and filed for her back child support (since she knew he had a good job). He quit his job and literally became homeless (living out of his car, then his bicycle) just so he wouldn't have to pay child support.

Yeah.

[CandidGamera]

Wow. Reminds me intensely of a couple I know. Though they're both more like the boyfriend, neither one of them ever having been particularly success-oriented. They exhibit a total lack of personal responsibility - fiscal, interpersonal, whatever kind - and constantly change jobs/switch apartments because there's always some irreconcilable difference between them and the landlord/employer. I believe the husband of the pair has turned to illegal activity to supplement their income. (Or so he's said to me, in any case.)

I pretty much just threw up my hands and only interact with them in limited circumstances.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

I'm impressed. I have a job and I can't even land a fucking date, let alone get someone to marry me. What's the world coming to?

I suggest you start slowy by trying to land a hand-holding date, and work your way gradually toward the fucking date. :D

[DiosaBellissima]

I suggest you start slowy by trying to land a hand-holding date, and work your way gradually toward the fucking date. :D


You know, some girls are into that sort of thing on the first date...what? :D