What's with the arrogance?

[SallyCan'tDance]

In post #190 of this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=297511&page=4&pp=50), I've suddenly been the figurative subject of a bit of a dummy-spit by someone called Finnagain, who, instead of explaining his seeming incomprehension of logical sentences, decides to tell me that he basically owns this thread and I can't join in the discussion because I'm pointing out the strange reasoning he seems to possess in his apparent crusade to protect rapists from Evil Feminists. It's not so much what he is arguing, (because it's hard to tell what he's doing other than exorcising a few personal demons), but the weirdly Third-Grader-in-the-Playground approach he has to a total stranger of whom he knows nothing.
Seriously, "Grown-ups"? :smack: Come on.

[treis]

Meh thats pretty tame. Why didn't you just respond in the thread. Something along the lines of 'Whats with the arrogance you cumguzzling gutter slut, Finnagain?'.

[Miller]

Jesus, you're four pages into a pit thread about rape, and you're shocked that someone implied you were immature? I'm not saying it wasn't uncalled for or anything, but man, that ain't hardly nothin'. Come back when he starts accusing you of intimate relationships with farm animals.

[World Eater]

Finn is class to the bone, just let it go.

[World Eater]

Whoops, posted instead of previewed.

Part of being a Doper is having thick skin. You'll see that on the scale of insults, that was just a little love tap. I wouldn't stress about it and move on, lesson learned.

[Larry Mudd]

Sorry, Sally. If you trot out a compositional fallacy on these boards and present it as though you're actually making a point, you're going to get slapped. If you have the misfortune to do it in the Pit, folks aren't going to be diplomatic about it, either.

What you got a spoonful of there wasn't arrogance, by the way. It was contempt.

Boo hoo.

[SallyCan'tDance]

Yeah I'm sure you're a lovely person, Larry Mudd. So what you're saying is, if I don't toe the party line, I should just allow classy types like Finnagain to control every thread?
Since when have insults been an acceptable substitute for intelligence?

[Guinastasia]

Since when have insults been an acceptable substitute for intelligence?

Since you posted in the Pit.

[SallyCan'tDance]

Mmm. Guinastasia, do I know you, are you delusional, or do you fill your empty meaningless life by roaming around posting rubbish at random in various threads?
Go get rooted. (Ah, that feels good! :D )

[Bryan Ekers]

Mmm. Guinastasia, do I know you, are you delusional, or do you fill your empty meaningless life by roaming around posting rubbish at random in various threads?
Go get rooted. (Ah, that feels good! :D )

Well, I don't know if the points get nostalgic for you, but you seem to keep missing them. This is not a jovial friendly sort of message board and it would be as boring as other people's kids if it was. This is a place of peer review, but we're not debating science (most of the time) but wise-guy-ness. Stand and deliver your configent waggery and wisecrackery or be crushed and forgotten like Pons and Fleischman.

"Rooted"? Pfft. Tell Guin to get fucked, why not? Fucked with a double-headed dildo with optional flamethrower and hair trigger. Put some effort into it.

[Brutus]

...someone called Finnagain, who, instead of explaining his seeming incomprehension of logical sentences, decides to tell me that he basically owns this thread and I can't join in the discussion because I'm pointing out the strange reasoning he seems to possess...

Look, if you want to debate with him, you have to be a quick thinker, or you will just be left in Finnagain's wake.









Ouch! So that's what it feels like when a braincell dies...

[Bites When Provoked]

Way to cut a newbie some slack, guys.

treis, Miller and World Eater have it in a nutshell. Everyone plays nice in the other areas, like MPSIMS, but when they come to the Pit it tends to release their Inner Asshole. Quit responding to it. (And, upon preview, inciting it. Though Bryan Ekers has a point - if you do feel the need to start slanging shit, at least make it creative and dramatic. ;))

There are two sayings that apply very well in the Pit:

1. Never wrestle with a pig; you'll both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
2. Don't argue with an idiot, because they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

As a word of advice, when two people are getting into mega-quote mode it's a good idea to stay clear of their argument and let them do their own sweet thing - regardless whether you think you can clarify the issue or help them reach an agreement. They'll either do it themselves or not at all, and just as in RealLife(tm), jumping in the middle of two combatants is a good way to get them both turning on you.

That doesn't excuse the Attitude-With-A-Capital-'A' that you're getting from some of the others, however. Everyone being incredibly rude towards SallyCan'tDance because she's not in your 'inner circle' - stop being such fucking asswipes.

[Miller]

Besides, she's a Lou Reed fan. Lou Reed kicks ass.

[Guinastasia]

My point wasn't to insult, but merely to say-hey, this is what the Pit is all about. We're ALL about insults here, the nastier, the better. If you can't take it, don't hang out here.

And as was pointed out to Sally, what she got was NOTHING compared to some of the shit that gets smeared around here.

[FinnAgain]

Yay! I've been Pitted! I have finally made it. My Doper-cherry is broken. But, over this? Kinda anti-climactic.

In case you're curious, in Post 179 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5740515&postcount=179) I elaborated upon my misreading of Maureen's post. Then, in post 184 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5740614&postcount=184) of the thread, Maureen and I had already worked out our misunderstanding. In fact, by post 210 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5742655&postcount=210) I had apologized and we'd come to some agreement. If you weren't following along, after the OP that thread quickly morphed into something of a very ugly thread. I think that the participants should be congratulated for talking about such a potentially touchy subject and talking like adults.

At the time, as I had already cleared up my misunderstanding with Maureen, your comments were designed, in no way, to further the conversation, while needlessly stirring up shit, being petty, and juvenile. I told you as much.

Moreover, your claim that I seek to 'protect rapists' is insulting and false to facts, can you find a single post of mine where I suggest that we should 'protect rapists' in any way shape or form? No? You're lying through your teeth? Ah....

This, in case you're wondering, would probably deserve an insult or five in the Pit. You don't lie about me and say I protect rapists and get away with it. Here in the Pit, I have only two ways of 'not letting you get away with it.'

First, I try to debate and discuss the factual and logical basis of a position. And then, if folks have annoyed me, I'll mix in some colorful invective, fun for the whole family.

For instance, for alleging that I protect rapists, you are a scummy lying bitch.

Ciao.

[elucidator]

Yay! I've been Pitted! ....

Newbie. Doesn't count.

[blowero]

It's generally considered bad form to start a new Pit thread because you didn't like something somebody said in another Pit thread. Just respond in the other thread. I wouldn't expect a lot of sympathy if I were you.

[Ink a dink a dink]

It's generally considered bad form to start a new Pit thread because you didn't like something somebody said in another Pit thread. Just respond in the other thread. I wouldn't expect a lot of sympathy if I were you.

Why is it bad form? Seriously, I don't know why? I've seen it happen many times before.

Inky

Who is curious.

[blowero]

Why is it bad form? Seriously, I don't know why? I've seen it happen many times before.

Yeah, and you've seen the people who do it get castigated by other dopers, right? It's just been my observation that most of the folks around here think it's petty to start a new Pit thread just to continue an argument you're already having in another Pit thread.

[Larry Mudd]

So what you're saying is, if I don't toe the party line, I should just allow classy types like Finnagain to control every thread?Disdain for logical fallacies is pretty much institutional around here. People who avoid them will control every thread.

Thanks be to Maude.

[Jonathan Chance]

Look, if you want to debate with him, you have to be a quick thinker, or you will just be left in Finnagain's wake.

*pwassh*

You are one right bastard, you are.

On the topic at hand...

I for one have never believed that, just because the thread is in the pit the requirement for civility and reason fly out the window. The pit should be the place for anger, yes, but not for lack of reason.

[SallyCan'tDance]

Thankyou to those who don't appear to view the BBQ Pit as their own private Mediocratic Feudal World (because they HAVE NO SOCIAL LIFE in the real world) - So thanks to Khiadra in particular, and to Miller, Jonathan Chance, & Worldeater.


And Brutus, I see no evidence that Finnagain has an intelligence level that even meets the criterion for Submoronity. Otherwise, he wouldn't tell another human being to get out of a thread that concerns issues pertinent to the whole human race, the arrogant heap of shit. THAT attitude was what I was Pitting, not the silly words he/she/it used.
"Howth Castle" evidently is situated in the Land of Social Retards Suffering from Megalomania. Go and interact with some real, live human beings for a change.

[FinnAgain]

Finnagain has an intelligence level that even meets the criterion for Submoronity

SubGenius. (www.subgenius.com)

[Brutus]

"Howth Castle" evidently is situated in the Land of Social Retards Suffering from Megalomania.

Or Ireland.

[Happy Lendervedder]

And Brutus, I see no evidence that Finnagain has an intelligence level that even meets the criterion for Submoronity. Otherwise, he wouldn't tell another human being to get out of a thread that concerns issues pertinent to the whole human race, the arrogant heap of shit. THAT attitude was what I was Pitting, not the silly words he/she/it used.
"Howth Castle" evidently is situated in the Land of Social Retards Suffering from Megalomania. Go and interact with some real, live human beings for a change.



C'mon, you've almost got it. Try ending it with 'shitstain' or 'you frothy cock pimple' next time.

[Cat Whisperer]

1. You don't have to be an asshole just cause it's the Pit. We have some of the best discussions here.

2. When two posters are dragging a thread down with their personal little war, I would prefer to see them take it somewhere else.

3. I agree with World Eater - grow a thicker skin, and realize that this is just a message board. If someone insults you, you can respond or you can walk away.

4. Choose your words carefully here, unless you want to be called on them. And realize that you might get called on them anyway.

5. Think about what someone said to you that causes you anger; ask yourself if there's any truth to it. If they're right, be the bigger person and apologize or clarify. It's good for you.

6. Get over it. Finnagain was a dink, but there's no rule that says anyone has to be nice.

[SallyCan'tDance]

Or Ireland.
Ha! I could make a comment here, but I won't.
Mods, you might as well lock this thread. Once a Dink, always a Dink.

[gobear]

Asking for a thread to be locked judst because you, as the OP, are gettinmg your ass handed to you is poor sportsmanship. And Brutus's posts in this thread have made him my new Straightboy Crush of the Month.

[Polycarp]

Look, if you want to debate with him, you have to be a quick thinker, or you will just be left in Finnagain's wake.

You were just rejoycing at a chance to come off with that line, weren't you? :D

[Jenaroph]

Once a Dink, always a Dink.
Not if you eventually DO have kids.

[FinnAgain]

Ha! I could make a comment here, but I won't.


Nope, definitely in Ireland.
Perhaps even past swerve of shore and bend of bay.

[ParentalAdvisory]

So I did a search for "intimate relationships with farm animals", and this is the thread I get? Fuck this shit.

:p

[FinnAgain]

Ah well. Someone has to do this.

Sally: Welcome to the Dope. If you're interested in intelligent rational discussion, you've found the best site on the 'net. The search feature alone is worth the price of registration, as virtually any question you have has already been discussed, complete with cites and people applying some critical thinking.

You'll also find, as I did, that the Dope really is a community of sorts, and has its own culture. I learned this the way most people here did, I'm sure. I screwed up at first.
I still fuck up, and do my best to learn from it.

I would also suggest lurking, a lot. At least at first. It took me quite some time to grok the gestalt of this place, and I still do not grok in fullness.

In any case, I doubt I'll get a retraction on your claim that I protect rapists. And I doubt that this thread will coalesce into some pool o' gnosis. It can be locked if the mods feel like it.

[Syntropy]

Finn, you misinterpreted a statement I made. Sally got it right the first time she read it, and rather nicely pointed it out. You jumped on her, because at that point you were being defensive (yes, I was, too. I think everyone in that thread was.) I wouldn't say you deserved a pitting for it, because Pit wise, it was a pretty mild retort, but I can see why she felt jumped on.

Oh, and welcome, Sally. You're way ballsier than I am. I stayed out of the Pit for a good long while after I got shouted down the first time. ;)

[FinnAgain]

As of post 184 you and I had already cleared up our misunderstanding. Post 185 was Sally's first text that was posted to me.
As such I question this idea that she was trying to clear anything up, as everything already had been cleared up.

Moreoever, her post set up strawman (that I found frefrences to some of a popluation being bigoted). Implied that somehow stating those simple facts alone was confusing me, and essentially implied that I was trolling (ie looking for a big controversy that doesn't exist.)

I did not believe that a proper response would exclude some well placed vitriol, but I really don't see any more point to debating this issue. Shall we put it down?

[Alonzo John Blitz]

Brutus (post # 11): FinnAgain’s wake – harharharhar! I’m surprised no one has said that before. (Seems so obvious in retrospect.)

And yes, that’s what it feels like when a brain cell dies, (usually accompanied by bright lights and hosannas.)

[Harborwolf]

Yeah, and you've seen the people who do it get castigated by other dopers, right? It's just been my observation that most of the folks around here think it's petty to start a new Pit thread just to continue an argument you're already having in another Pit thread.

That would be a good point if the person involved was an elder doper. Sally is still guest level. Lighten up a step.
:)

[Princhester]

...false to facts...

As opposed to false to what, exactly?

[FinnAgain]

As opposed to false to what, exactly?

Something that'd be true, accurate, etc.

[SallyCan'tDance]

Look, this thread is bad for my blood-pressure :smack: Rape is a very emotive and upsetting issue, and I just think its bad enough without all this anger, hostility, and, yes, snobbery towards some newer members coalescing in that thread. Thankyou Maureen for understanding what I was trying to say.

Yes, I know I'm a useless insult-creator, Pit People. I'm a law student, we are trained to insult people the old-fashioned way (that involves litigation as opposed to swear-words). :)

I'm off to listen to Satellite of Love. ;)

[Princhester]

Something that'd be true, accurate, etc.

You miss my point. What is the difference between something that is "false to facts" and something that is "false"?

The "to facts" bit is necessary to make it clear that you don't mean what, exactly?

I've seen you use the expression several times and it just seems like an unnecessary affectation, so I thought I'd brighten your day by getting up you about it. I think I need to find a a better hobby! :)

[Desmostylus]

It distinguishes between different kinds of falsity:

factually false
legally false
logically false, etc.

[blowero]

That would be a good point if the person involved was an elder doper. Sally is still guest level.

Exactly why I explained to her why she's not going to get a positive reaction from starting this thread. Since she didn't know, it's an even better point.

Lighten up a step.
:)
Lighten up yourself, asshole.

[FinnAgain]

I've seen you use the expression several times and it just seems like an unnecessary affectation, so I thought I'd brighten your day by getting up you about it. I think I need to find a a better hobby! :)

Ah, I use it partially to avoid stylistic rigidity.
I think I picked it up while reading some stuff on General Semantics (http://objectz.com/columnists/eandd/)

Keep up the good work though. :D

[Princhester]

But if you just say "false" then what is the assumption?

[Princhester]

Sorry that was in response to Desmo, but you slipped an additional post in on me.

[FinnAgain]

Sorry that was in response to Desmo, but you slipped an additional post in on me.

Your apology is too late! I demand blood.

But seriously... something being false-to-facts, in my mind at least, goes towards making a statment that someone's model doesn't jive with the reality. In other words, their generalization is falsified by the facts.
Or some such.

[Desmostylus]

But if you just say "false" then what is the assumption?That it's false, but that statement adds no information regarding the source of the error. Are the facts correct but the conclusion incorrect because of a logical falsity, or is the conclusion incorrect because the facts are incorrect, etc.

[Princhester]

OK I give in. False to facts it is.

[Desmostylus]

"False to facts" does sound kinda strained. "Wrong on the facts", I guess, is what you'd be more familiar with.

FinnAgain's posts tend to set my teeth on edge, for some reason, even though I rarely disagree with what he's actuall trying to say.

[FinnAgain]

Curiouser and curiouser.

[Sevastopol]

Look, if you want to debate with him, you have to be a quick thinker, or you will just be left in Finnagain's wake.You were just rejoycing at a chance to come off with that line, weren't you? :DIf we're not careful this will be epic, meantime these highjnks paint a pretty poor portrait of both you young men.

[Licentious Ectomorph]

You'll also find, as I did, that the Dope really is a community of sorts, and has its own culture. I learned this the way most people here did, I'm sure. I screwed up at first.
I still fuck up, and do my best to learn from it.

I would also suggest lurking, a lot. At least at first. It took me quite some time to grok the gestalt of this place, and I still do not grok in fullness.



Hijack here, but this seems as good a place as any to bring this up.

I don't care for the widespread and seemingly unquestioned assumption that a handful of "elder Dopers" (or at least especially prolific ones) are entitled to make the rules, dictate board culture, set the tone, declare what is appropriate and what is not, etc. This is not high school; the "cool kids" do not rule the roost. This is a public message board and we've all paid our money.

Know what I always observed about the self-proclaimed "in crowd" in high school? No one likes them. They're only "in" with each other. The rest of us are just fine without them, thank you, and certainly don't crave their approval, no matter how significant they've convinced themselves they are.

This is not directed at any particular Dopers, but rather the nebulous "They" who supposedly dominate the Straight Dope.

[Guinastasia]

Hijack here, but this seems as good a place as any to bring this up.

I don't care for the widespread and seemingly unquestioned assumption that a handful of "elder Dopers" (or at least especially prolific ones) are entitled to make the rules, dictate board culture, set the tone, declare what is appropriate and what is not, etc. This is not high school; the "cool kids" do not rule the roost. This is a public message board and we've all paid our money.

Know what I always observed about the self-proclaimed "in crowd" in high school? No one likes them. They're only "in" with each other. The rest of us are just fine without them, thank you, and certainly don't crave their approval, no matter how significant they've convinced themselves they are.

This is not directed at any particular Dopers, but rather the nebulous "They" who supposedly dominate the Straight Dope.


I'm sorry, but this is bullshit.

It is not about rules being dictated by a so-called "clique." It is about the habits and customs of this board, which have developed over time, based on, well, what works best.

This is true in real life. Do you just join a new group of people, and then complain because they have certain habits, a certain way of doing things? I bloody well hope not! That's the surest way to alienate the rest of the group and make a pest of yourself. You take the time to get a feel for how things work, and then you try and go with it.

We're trying to help people get along here. We're saying, "Hey, Sally, if you're gonna post here in the Pit, you have to roll with the punches. If you can't take it, don't dish it out." And this isn't a personal insult to Sally, it's just some advice.

[Cat Whisperer]

Yeah, what Guinastasia said!

Actually, there is a group of elder Dopers that do indeed make the rules and set the tone. They're called Moderators and Administrators. Beyond that, someone who is an elder doper is probably someone who has figured out a way to interact here successfully, so it makes a kind of sense that the old-timers would have some characteristics in common.

And there is no clique.{slips Guin a secret handshake on the way out}

[Licentious Ectomorph]

I'm sorry, but this is bullshit.

It is not about rules being dictated by a so-called "clique." It is about the habits and customs of this board, which have developed over time, based on, well, what works best.

This is true in real life. Do you just join a new group of people, and then complain because they have certain habits, a certain way of doing things? I bloody well hope not! That's the surest way to alienate the rest of the group and make a pest of yourself. You take the time to get a feel for how things work, and then you try and go with it.

We're trying to help people get along here. We're saying, "Hey, Sally, if you're gonna post here in the Pit, you have to roll with the punches. If you can't take it, don't dish it out." And this isn't a personal insult to Sally, it's just some advice.

I still don't buy it. Piling on a new poster, insulting her, and calling her names is "helping people get along"? I don't know what to say to that.

My question remains, who says what the way of doing things here is? There are no Straight Dope Commandments carved in stone by God. It's what we all make of it. Some Dopers are put off that SallyCan'tDance started this thread, but instead of ignoring it and moving along to something more to their liking, they take it upon themselves to "correct" her because What They Say Goes. They rip her a new ass because starting a thread like this doesn't "work"...because people will rip her a new ass for it...because it doesn't work...because people will rip her a new ass...

I'm seriously not looking to pick a fight here and I have no problems with any individual Dopers. I'm just pointing out something I've noticed here as a longtime lurker and relatively new poster.

[Licentious Ectomorph]

Yeah, what Guinastasia said!

Actually, there is a group of elder Dopers that do indeed make the rules and set the tone. They're called Moderators and Administrators. Beyond that, someone who is an elder doper is probably someone who has figured out a way to interact here successfully, so it makes a kind of sense that the old-timers would have some characteristics in common.

And there is no clique.{slips Guin a secret handshake on the way out}

I'm not talking about the Moderators and Administrators, and I am familiar with the official rules. I'm talking about the self-appointed mods and admins who have "figured out a way to interact here successfully"...and prove it with hostility and outright cruelty to newbies and anyone who doesn't toe the line or wear the brand of shoes that they deem the coolest.

I'm not trying to buck the system and I'm not averse to learning things, reconsidering my stance, or revising my approach when appropriate. What I object to is the general atmosphere of "Shhhh....don't say that...THEY might hear you!"

[Jackmannii]

There are no Straight Dope Commandments carved in stone by God.Actually, there are. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/rules.php?) Depending, of course, on whether the being known as "Cecil" (said being is suspected by certain of the faithful of being Cthulu) can be equated with "God".


I always love reading paragraph 3 of the Commandments, regarding the proscription of vulgar, abusive and hateful remarks.

[Guinastasia]

I haven't seen anyone here truly "rip her a new one." What I've seen is some basic, albeit sarcastic, hints.

Basically, she came here, all aflame because she posted in a forum where insults are pretty much expected. She gets upset because people are using the Pit EXACTLY as it's meant to be used. And others point out, well, yeah, we may not agree with him, but what he said is pretty much standard for this place, and instead of starting a new thread, just stay in the old one and stand up for yourself. And not to get so upset-if you're going to post in the Pit, you have to have a thick skin.

And some, trying to help, pointed out how she might avoid getting insulted.

Sally doesn't accept that, and instead continues to whine about how "immature" and "mean" we are. And then, because the thread wasn't going the way she wanted it to, asked the mods to close it. That's a big no-no. You don't get to shut things down when they don't go the way you want. (Not to mention, that's a very, how do we say it, "immature attitude"?)


Look, Sally, basically, if you want to debate without ad hominems, you need to go to Great Debates. If you want to stay in the Pit and argue, you're going to have to learn to deal with people spewing insults and not being all nicey-nice. If you can't handle that, well, I don't know what to tell you then.

[Syntropy]

Actually, Nordic has a point. There certainly is an attitude directed at new posters that they should listen more, speak less, and defer to their "elders who know better." I was on the receiving end of it several times. And, we have all paid our money to be here, and just because we haven't been at this website since 1999 or 2000 doesn't mean we don't have valid opinions.
Guin, I think you and featherlou are being a little disengenuous to say that such an attitude doesn't exist. I've seen you both call people "newbies" in a rather derisive way.
Yes, this is the Pit. And, just by reading the thread titles you should get a pretty good idea that the insults flow fairly freely, and sometimes Pit threads have a way of rebounding on one. Sally should definitely have addressed Finn in the same thread; none of us would have minded and frankly, I was expecting it.
I will echo what others have said here, Sally. Grow a thicker skin, and go ahead and blast away when you feel blasted on. That's what the Pit is for. But you will get called on it if someone feels it's baseless. Sometimes even if they don't, just to mess with you because you're new, to push your buttons, whatever. Some people are assholes. Me included, sometimes.

[duffer]

Yes, I know I'm a useless insult-creator, Pit People. I'm a law student, we are trained to insult people the old-fashioned way (that involves litigation as opposed to swear-words).

Well, now you've been marked. The floodgates will be opened shortly.

[Guinastasia]

I'm sorry, Maureen, I suppose you're right. I shouldn't be so derisive of people who haven't been here that long.

[blowero]

I still don't buy it. Piling on a new poster, insulting her, and calling her names is "helping people get along"? I don't know what to say to that.

Excuse me, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that she started the thread with the express purpose of insulting someone. And you expect people to react with kindness and friendship? :dubious: All things considered, the responses were pretty tame.

[Syntropy]

I'm sorry, Maureen, I suppose you're right. I shouldn't be so derisive of people who haven't been here that long.
Nah, you don't do it all that much. Certainly not as often as others I've seen. ;)

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip>I think you and featherlou are being a little disengenuous to say that such an attitude doesn't exist. I've seen you both call people "newbies" in a rather derisive way. <snip>
After taking my own advice and reflecting on this, I don't think I have called anyone a newbie in a derisive way. I don't even use the term "newbie" very often. I'm not saying I haven't, just saying that what I perceive as my attitude towards the new members is very rarely derisive; if it's coming across differently, that's a surprise to me.

You do raise an interesting point, Nordic. I didn't say that attitude doesn't exist - just that the clique doesn't. Well, if it does, I ain't been invited to join.

You're not completely wrong - there do seem to be some prevailing attitudes and opinions here that will get you an ass-handing if you buck them. I think that's just part of a developing society.

[zut]

I still don't buy it. Piling on a new poster, insulting her, and calling her names is "helping people get along"? I don't know what to say to that.Well, I disagree with the implication of your post. Certainly there were some insults being slung. However, for the most part, posters were going easy on Sally. If Guinastasia had started this thread, or featherlou, or Jackmannii, or me... then the pile-on would have probably been more significant. Because the poster wouldn't have been a newcomer, and would have been a bit more aware of the conventions. In this case, people simply disagreed with what Sally had to say, but, for the most part, cut her some slack. (And recall, of course, that Sally is jumping in with both feet and starting a Pit thread. To assume that she was unprepared for argumentation and/or flaming is to assume that she is completely clueless.)

Which isn't to say that Maureen doesn't have a point -- I've seen occasional posters jump someone else's shit just because (it seemed to me) the other person was relatively new. But I think these instances are the exceptions, rather than the rule.I don't care for the widespread and seemingly unquestioned assumption that a handful of "elder Dopers" (or at least especially prolific ones) are entitled to make the rules, dictate board culture, set the tone, declare what is appropriate and what is not, etc. This is not high school; the "cool kids" do not rule the roost. This is a public message board and we've all paid our money.Yeah, but... it is what it is. The "culture" (for lack of a better word) of the message board has evolved over years; I don't think it's been "dictated" in any way. And it will continue to evolve as new members join, and old ones drop away. And right now, at this particular moment, that culture encompasses certain norms. Not because they're dictated, but because they've evolved.

This is a general interest message board, and most anyone is welcome, but that doesn't mean everyone will feel welcome, because there is a certain culture, a culture that discourages unsubstantiated claims, email glurge, and kiddie leet speak. And your analogy to high school is off-base: if a newcomer cruises through the SDMB and decides that he or she doesn't like the culture and the norms that everyone else adheres to, then that newcomer can find another board more to his or her liking. There's no particular fault or stigma in deciding that this place isn't for them -- Guinastasia isn't going to beat them up in the parking lot, featherlou isn't going to give 'em a swirlie, and I'm not going to key their car.

[Miller]

I, however, will stuff them into their own locker.

[Cat Whisperer]

Hey, I'm not making any promises. Swirlies will be dealt if swirlies are earned.

[Bryan Ekers]

Just watch out for the dreaded Rear Admiral.

[SolGrundy]

I'm not talking about the Moderators and Administrators, and I am familiar with the official rules. I'm talking about the self-appointed mods and admins who have "figured out a way to interact here successfully"...and prove it with hostility and outright cruelty to newbies and anyone who doesn't toe the line or wear the brand of shoes that they deem the coolest.
Doesn't exist. This board has the same rules as any other internet message board, much less any community online or off. You go in, you read the signs (e.g. BBQ Pit -- this is the place for flames), and you read what's going on. You get the tone for each forum before you start talking.

If you post something dumb or inflammatory in Great Debates, you either get a comment that it was an inappropriate forum for your post, or you get a warning from a Mod, or it gets moved, or some combination of the three. Your recourse is to figure out what the forum rules are and not make the same mistake again.

If you post something dumb or inflammatory in The BBQ Pit, you get people telling you you're a fucking idiot. (Which, incidentally also happens if you post something smart, not inflammatory, friendly, mean, spiteful, meaningless, on-topic, off-topic, tangential to the topic, drunken, or otherwise). Your recourse is to respond that the other person is a fucking idiot, because those are pretty much the forum rules.

No cliques involved, just common sense and getting a feel for the place before jumping in.

Errr...
asshole.

[FinnAgain]

As long as this thead is still front page:
I don't think she got all that much flack. Hell, new poster or not she accused me being on a crusade to protect rapists.
If any 'regular' poster had made the same claim, they'd be torn to pieces for posting innacurate and slanderous bullshit.

So ah well, live and learn.

[SallyCan'tDance]

Ho, so it's a "no-no" to suggest that the thread seems to be dying a natural death and perhaps a Mod might like to close it?
What's so shocking about that? :confused:
I'm getting the impression that there are a lot of :gasps and clutches pearls: people hanging around here...
So, if I'm a :eek: newbie :eek: - can I do whatever the hell I want, and not get banned, because I'm a newbie and thus it "doesn't count." No, I can't. So I will start a Pit thread, or any thread, when I damn well feel like it.
Thankyou and remember to extend the pinky when you sip your tea whilst reading "Mrs Beaton's Guide to Fallacies." ;)

[Bryan Ekers]

I daresay the line between funny and incoherent isn't fine at all, but a good ten feet wide.

[FinnAgain]

Ho, so it's a "no-no" to suggest that the thread seems to be dying a natural death and perhaps a Mod might like to close it?

It is tradition that if you start a Pit thread, and it turns on you, you can't go whining home and ask for it to be closed.


So, if I'm a :eek: newbie :eek: - can I do whatever the hell I want, and not get banned, because I'm a newbie and thus it "doesn't count." No, I can't. So I will start a Pit thread, or any thread, when I damn well feel like it.

Point two does not follow from point one. And yes, you can open whatever thread you want, and take your lumps for it.

You got off easy here, since as evinced by your OP you're a dirty liar trying to smear another poster. Had you not been a guest, you would've been dogpiled. You got off lucky. Have the good sense to keep your mouth shut now.


Thankyou and remember to extend the pinky when you sip your tea whilst reading "Mrs Beaton's Guide to Fallacies." ;)

You've come to the greatest message board on the 'net. A board filled with intelligent and rational people. A board where logical fallacies are recognized and dealt with becuase they hamper the progress of truth and discovery. If you don't like it, leave.

[Polycarp]

If we're not careful this will be epic, meantime these highjnks paint a pretty poor portrait of both you young men.

That's a bloomin' insult!! :D

[SallyCan'tDance]

It is tradition that if you start a Pit thread, and it turns on you, you can't go whining home and ask for it to be closed.
Sweetie, I never did this. I merely stated that this thread was becoming boring, and perhaps a Mod might agree with me.



Point two does not follow from point one. And yes, you can open whatever thread you want, and take your lumps for it.
Do you actually understand that that was PRECISELY what I was saying? Yeesh.

You got off easy here, since as evinced by your OP you're a dirty liar trying to smear another poster. Had you not been a guest, you would've been dogpiled. You got off lucky. Have the good sense to keep your mouth shut now.
This is the Internet. It is not real life. Why don't you keep your own fucking mouth shut, Mr. Charming. :wally



You've come to the greatest message board on the 'net. A board filled with intelligent and rational people. A board where logical fallacies are recognized and dealt with becuase they hamper the progress of truth and discovery. If you don't like it, leave.[/QUOTE]

[Guinastasia]

Sally, you really need to just shrug this off. I think it is fair to say that there is no one here who has not been burned at least once or twice in the Pit. It's happened to all of us.

When it does happen, you have a choice. You can a.) swallow your pride, admit you fucked up, and move on. Or you can b.) continue to whine about it and make yourself look like a schmuck. (Note-I'm not addressing this to YOU, personally, just the general "you")

And when you're new, it's generally best to try and listen to the advice of those of us who've been here and know how things work around here. Crying about it to the mods is not going to earn you respect from your fellow posters.

Nor are the mods going to close down a thread just because YOU feel, "Oh well no one agrees with me, so just lock it!"


I'm not trying to insult you, here, just telling you how we do things. This place can be overwhelming at times, even to us old geezers. Stick around for a while, and observe. Good luck.


:)

[Sevastopol]

That's a bloomin' insult!! :D

To be sure, put a spud in it, ya molly!

[FinnAgain]

Sweetie, I never did this. I merely stated that this thread was becoming boring, and perhaps a Mod might agree with me.

Naw, and as the person you pitted, I don't agree with you. You're a dirty lying bitch who tried to smear me, and you haven't even had the class to apologize yet you damn filthy caluminous bitch. You get it? You lie through your teeth in an effort to demonize someone, and that makes you lying scum. Sorry.


Do you actually understand that that was PRECISELY what I was saying? Yeesh.

No, that wasn't precisely what you were saying, because you keep fucking whining and you asked for the thread to be closed.


This is the Internet. It is not real life. Why don't you keep your own fucking mouth shut, Mr. Charming.

Because you stupid piece of shit, you accused me of being on a crusade to protect rapists. You're a filthy lying whore without the sense of a dog. Fuck you. Pardon me if I don't think that the Dope really needs some dirty lying bitch to make it a better place. Fuck off.