Is American Rock at rock bottom?

I love musical topics... and this one might ruffle some feathers.

Listening to the radio today... painful experience. I came to wondering-- Are there any good ACTIVE American rock bands out there. When I say rock, I mean guitar/vocal/drum driven music, so let's disqualify Beck, one of the few American acts critically judged as good. So what do we have? Matchbox 20, the Goo Goo Dolls, Third Eye Blind, etc. Hardly groundbreaking. What to the Brits have? Radiohead, Blur, Pulp... these guys are making groundbreaking music, IMHO. So, are there any really good American rock bands out there that (and this is the important part) have made it big in recent years, or was REM our last gasp? I'd like to see what people think...

The thing about popular music is that it can be very difficult to tell who the great bands are until several years later. You mentioned REM. They've been around for a couple decades already, so the history's verdict on them is in.

BTW, notice how long it took for REM to make it in a big way? Groundbreaking bands rarely get aknowledged right off the bat. If you want to find some current up and comers, ignore MTV, Billboard, and Top 40 radio. You've got to DIG for it. And remember, there's an awful lot of crap out there that you are going to have to wade through.

I wish I could help, but I've been catching up on my jazz listening recently. How about Metallica? I've really enjoyed their stuff.

------------------
"The day after tomorrow is the third day of the rest of your life." -George Carlin

Maybe I'm missing the point of your question - Are you looking for opinions on if there are any good (from the listener's perspective) rock bands, or are you looking for hard, cold sales figures to determine if a recent American rock band has made it big? I think it's two separate questions.

I noticed all the groups you talk about are ones played on the Modern Rock / Adult Contempary / "Alternative" stations. If you want numbers for popularity, you might have to look elsewhere. Sad as it is, I couldn't argue that Hootie & the Blowfish have the sales figures to back up popularity (I'm making the assumption their a US group here). On the other hand, if you just want our gut feelings on if we like a group or not, I can give or take the Goo Goo Dolls just as easily as Radiohead and I wouldn't bother to use a Blur CD as a coaster.

------------------
"I guess it is possible for one person to make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

Okay, I admit my choices are all from "modern" rock, but I'm 20, cut me some slack. Besides, most active bands tend to be new as well.
What I'm looking for is an American Rock band, relatively new, that a well-versed fan of rock music would judge as good and also has had a good measure of success. So, if your favorite genre is Jazz (or rap or country), I respect your opinion but it isn't what I'm looking for.
Jophiel, to answer your first question succinctly: both.

Sorry, tet, but I gotta take issue here. I said that I'm CURRENTLY catching up on my jazz listening, not that that is all that I listen to. I thought that my comment on Metallica would make it clear that I listen to a pretty fair amount of rock as well.

------------------
"The day after tomorrow is the third day of the rest of your life." -George Carlin

I think the fact that there aren't any "wide-appeal" (hence phenomenally successful $$$-wise) bands in America today is a great thing. It means that performers and record labels are no longer pandering to the lowest common denominator. There's hundreds of great bands in America today. They just cater to smaller audiences that share their tastes in music. I can go into a record store today and choose from dozens of Rock sub-genres. How many sub-genres were there in, say 1979? Punk, oldies, and maybe one of two others. Today's bands are taking their influences from everywhere. When people have more choices, they no longer have to share their favorite artists with the entire rock-listening public. They can go see their favorite bands in clubs and other small venues.

I have several friends in the rock concert tour business and they tell me the changes over the last 5 years are dramatic. The days of stadium concerts are all but over. There isn't even a half dozen bands that can sell more than 5,000 tickets to a single concert. Only multiple band events like Lalapalooza and Woodstock can bring in those numbers. Elton John and Billy Joel used to fill stadiums, now the two of them on the same bill can't even do that.

If this trend continues, you will never see the kind of fan base that was enjoyed by the Beatles, Stones, Eagles or U2. There is a thread over in the MPSIMS forum that surveyes favorite bands. It is a REALLY long list. Ten years ago that thread would have lasted about two days before all our favorite bands had been listed. That thread has been going for something like two months!

I think the fact that there aren't any "wide-appeal" (hence phenomenally successful $$$-wise) bands in America today is a great thing. It means that performers and record labels are no longer pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Actually, it means the audience is becoming more and more fragmented. There was a time when everyone liked the same music. Then came rock. Then came particular flavors of rock. So now every listener has a different conception of what is good music.

This is good in some ways and bad in others. The main problem is that everyone says "I love technofolk" or whatever, and then refuses to listen to anything that's not in that particular narrow category. There's plenty of good music around, but too many people refuse to broaden their focus.

I like a lot of music, from Beethoven to Gershwin, to Cole Porter, to the Beatles, to Led Zepplin, to Beck and the Crash Test Dummies. I refuse to get stuck in one musical genre, but many seem to think that that's the only way to look at it.

That's their loss.

------------------
www.sff.net/people/rothman (http://www.sff.net/people/rothman)

Actually, it means the audience is becoming more and more fragmented. There was a time when everyone liked the same music. Then came rock. Then came particular flavors of rock. So now every listener has a different conception of what is good music... and then refuses to listen to anything that's not in that particular narrow category.


I don't see the ever-increasing fragmenting of the music audience as a bad thing or even contributing to people's reluctance to experience different forms of music. My guess is that most young people always started out liking only one or two genres of music and then a smaller percentage expanded their tastes as they grew older.

I have seen older people who only like a particular kind of music from their youth. When I tried to introduce them to a newer version of "Greenback Dollar" sung and played in a traditional manner from a young musician who usually plays in punk bands they just turned their nose up.

It means that performers and record labels are no longer pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Yep, PapaBear is right, the fragmenting of the market means that musicians don't have to pander to the lowest common denominator. They can play to a niche market, expanding the lyrical content and musical styles available. STARS KILL ROCK!!!

Green Day.

>>The days of stadium concerts are all but over.

And good riddance! I've been to a bunch of stadium concerts, mostly in my early 20's. Since then, I've been to smaller venues, converted movie theaters, that sort of thing. I don't think I'd ever go to a stadium concert again. The sound sucks, you can't see the performers, and they're full of drunken teenagers who can't hold their liquor. Give me a smaller place, good sound, and a place to dance anytime.

Another great band that's been around for eons and hasn't changed their 3 piece sound is XTC. They are fabulous.

------------------
To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion.

Listening to the radio today... painful experience. I came to wondering-- Are there any good ACTIVE American rock bands out there.

Tet, I would have to say that my husband agrees with you. He is a musician (bass player) and everytime we turn on MTV, VH1, or MUCH music, his comment is (always) "ARe there ever going to be any more good bands!?". I think he's speaking of bands that exhibit good quality musicianship, thoughtful combinations of lyric and melody, and lyrics that mean something a little deeper than "Ooh baby you're the one". I agree with him 50%. I think the musical quality may be lacking, but I must admit I really enjoy The Offspring and think their lyrics are a hoot. Maybe the music business is too busy looking for the latest big meal ticket to really develop their artists or maybe they're just not as picky any more. One advantage to the plethora of bands now is that my listening tastes have WIDELY expanded. I'm generally a jazz/classical person but have really gotten into Latin/SOME alternative (hence The Offspring)/dance/urban-soul-rap(TLC,Maxwell, Will Smith). Nice to have the variety available. Wish the Police were still around though; discovered them too late!

------------------
Carpe Diem!

Listening to the radio today... painful experience. I came to wondering-- Are there any good ACTIVE American rock bands out there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tet, I would have to say that my husband agrees with you. He is a musician (bass player) and everytime we turn on MTV, VH1, or MUCH music, his comment is (always) "ARe there ever going to be any more good bands!?".

Hey, Bunny, I play the bass also!

There are a plethora of good bands out there, but you won't find them on those channels. Well, maybe MuchMusic--a few of the lesser-known Canadian pop (by which I mean pop in the Beatlesque sense) bands like Sloan and Jale get played there. There are soooooo many good bands out there who never get any acclaim because they don't water down for the mass audience! (Not that there's anything inherently wrong with it--I also love the Beatles, Beach Boys, Nirvana, Sarah McLachlan, Motown, etc.)

Some of the unsung bands I love--some of these you may recognize the name but know them only by one unrepresentative hit single. And many were once on big labels but got dropped, and are now on tiny labels:

The Posies, a now-defunct Seattle band who made five amazing albums of power-pop/rock music. If you are a fan of the genre, check out "Dear 23," "Frosting on the Beater" and "Amazing Disgrace" for some jaw-dropping songwriting and vocal work.

Letters to Cleo, for whom "Here and Now" was a fluke hit. Their last album, called "Go!", was one of my favorites of 1998. Again, modern masters of the power-pop genre.

Fuzzy, a female-fronted Boston quartet. Their album "Electric Juices" is required listening for pop fans.

Sleater-Kinney, an all-female punk-pop trio with an interesting sound.

Matthew Sweet, who has 2 or 3 gold records and still really hasn't "made it." Bonus points: his albums "Girlfriend," "100% Fun" and "Altered Beast" all feature the lead guitar work of "alternative" pioneers Robert Quine (Richard Hell & the Voidoids, Lou Reed) and Richar Lloyd (Television).

The Reivers (aka Zeitgeist), a former Austin quartet with amazing male/female harmony vocals, fun songwriting, and great arrangements. If you ever see a copy of their "End of the Day" it is a must-have.

Two bands to offer up:

- Dave Matthews Band. This one has a caveat - listen to any album up until "Before These Crowded Streets" Until then, they kept the same sound as when they played bars in Richmond.

- Sebadoh. GREAT indie band.

------------------
"You don't get something for nothing. You can't have freedom for free."
-Neil Peart, RUSH, "Something for Nothing"

What do you mean by good? What about Liz Phair, Ani DiFranco, Hole, Smashing Pumpkins, Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) ?

If you talk to 20 different people you will get 20 different answers.

Most people prefer the music from their adolescence, so older people will tend to say "music ain't what it used to."

One of the greatest American bands is Los Lobos... I think they're still active anyway. Also check out Paul Cebar & The Milwaukeeans.

------------------
"Anything is peaceful from one thousand, three hundred and fifty-three feet."

In response to Jacques...
I like all the groups/artists you mentioned, except for Ani, and I think SP has gotten a little blah. But my point is that anyone who knows their music will say any of those groups are better than the Hootie's of the world, yet are nowhere near as popular. I would go as far to say that ANY current group/artist any TRUE rock music fan likes does not have the same popularity as, say, Third Eye Blind. This didn't seem to be the case in the 60s. Why is this the case now, and are there any groups that go against this trend, meaning are very popular with the masses and are also well-liked by critics and rock afficianatos? Dave Matthews is the only act I can think of that comes close...

In response to Jacques...
I like all the groups/artists you mentioned, except for Ani, and I think SP has gotten a little blah. But my point is that anyone who knows their music will say any of those groups are better than the Hootie's of the world, yet are nowhere near as popular. I would go as far to say that ANY current group/artist any TRUE rock music fan likes does not have the same popularity as, say, Third Eye Blind. This didn't seem to be the case in the 60s. Why is this the case now...

I think that most people will remember the good and forget the bad. Many critically acclaimed and/or original bands were never very popular.
I couldn't find a lot of historical information (Billboard's web site charges money), but I did find a top 40 list from 1970 (I only included the first 20). How many of these bands do you know? Of the famous performers listed, how many of their songs below do you remember?

http://www.icok.net/~chrisben/at40/first.html
FIRST AMERICAN TOP 40 BROADCAST
Week ending 11 July, 1970
Mama Told Me (Not To Come) - Three Dog Night
The Love You Save/I Found That Girl - Jackson 5
Ball Of Confusion (That's What the World Is Today) - The Temptations
Ride Captain Ride - Blues Image
Band Of Gold - Freda Payne
Lay Down (Candles In the Rain) - Melanie with The Edwin Hawkins Singers
(They Long To Be) Close To You - The Carpenters
The Long and Winding Road/For You Blue - The Beatles
The Wonder Of You/Mama Liked The Roses - Elvis Presley
Hitchin' a Ride - Vanity Fare
Gimme Dat Ding - The Pipkins
O-o-h Child/Dear Prudence - The Five Stairsteps
Get Ready Rare - Earth
United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man
A Song Of Joy - Miguel Rios
My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains
Tighter, Tighter - Alive and Kicking
Love Land - Charles Wright and the Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band
Are You Ready - Pacific Gas and Electric
Make It With You - Bread

------------------
Jacques Kilchoer
Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains.

American Rock is definately not what it used to be. I feel that the 80's rock was the best. Yes I love the hair bands and the hard kicking metal too. I have always liked most types of music but that is slowly changing. Todays Rock is getting to be pathetic. One example is Smashing Pumpkins. They are the absolute worst band I can think of. The day I heard that whiney voice on the radio is the day I knew I could make millions putting out my own music because I know I could do much better. There are a few really great rock bands around today although I'm afraid some of them won't be around much longer such as KISS, Metallica, Aerosmith and others like them that have been around forever. When it comes to new rock bands, there aren't really many worth listening to. Alternacrap is definately not worth a second of my time. I'd say Stabbing Westward and Marilyn Manson and very few others are worth listening too and those two are the best. One thing I'm really happy with is the fact that Poison is making a comeback along with Rat, LA Guns and GreatWhite. I can't wait to see them in concert at the Nissan Pavilion in VA. As soon as the cd's are released I'll be shelling out the cash. Bring back all the 80's hair bands and I'll be happy. One group I would love to see make a comeback is Tesla....oh yeah.....another great group but still not well known is Type O'Negative. I used to date Peter's (that's the singer) niece Sara. Check them out sometime...they are unlike any other band in the history of music.

------------------
Visit Spedrick's Playground @ http://members.xoom.com/Spedrick/

I have to agree with Jacques. The state of American rock and roll is probably no worse now than its ever been, its just a matter of perspective. Tetzel mentioned that in the '60's, "good" and "popular" meant the same thing. Well, not quite. When you think of the sixties now, you think of what? The Beatles, The Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, the Doors... But what songs were really popular at the time? The number one hit of 1966 was "The Ballad of the Green Berets". The number one hit of 1969 was "Sugar, Sugar" by the (non-existant) Archies. And lets not forget, Sha-Na-Na actually played at Woodstock. When good and popular do coincide (as was the case with the Beatles and the Stones) its usually a fluke.

That said, I do believe that the state of American radio has hit rock bottom. And for that, I fully blame Nirvana (or perhaps I should blame MTV for creating Nirvana's popularity). Nirvana almost single-handedly pushed alternative rock into the mainstream, making all the popular hair-metal bands instantly irrelevant, making all the record companies search far and wide for the next big "alternative" band, and causing practically every rock radio station in the country to switch to an "alternative" format. Soon, the airwaves were flooded with a bunch of watered-down-for-the-masses, interchangable, semi-"alternative" rock bands. I can name at least 4, maybe 6, radio stations in the Boston area that have almost identical playlists. Sadly, even the "real" alternative radio station here seems to have watered down its format to compete with all the wannabes. Back in the '80's, "alternative" actually meant alternative; now its just a buzzword. Back then, we had a choice between, say, Winger and the Cure. Now we have a choice between Matchbox 20 and Third Eye Blind.


------------------
"For what a man had rather were true, he more readily believes" - Francis Bacon

This thread didn't go in the direction I was expecting, but I like it nonetheless. And Burn, XTC is good shit, no doubt. Green Day, admittedly, isn't bad either. But I still wonder, why are the new American rock bands that have acheived the most popularity (Matchbox 20 being the perfect example) the ones that also, in the eyes of many critics and, from what I can judge, a lot of people who REALLY get into music, so frikken' bad? The only people I've met who really like these bands are the same who say "I listen to everything" sometimes with the qualifier "but rap and country." Ironically, these are often the people, in my experience, who listen to the LEAST music

Looking at the bands I've seen mentioned on this thread... Posies, Sleater-Kinney, Sebadoh, Matthew Sweet, XTC, Letters to Cleo... it's reassuring that at least the cool people on this planet are listening to good music. I just with things could be more like the 60s (or at least from what I've been told about the 60's, when "good" and "popular" were nearly synonimous (yeah, I butchered the spelling... sorry)

Okay, I'll take a stab at your question, tet. You said:

But I still wonder, why are the new American rock bands that have acheived the most popularity (Matchbox 20 being the perfect example) the ones that also, in the eyes of many critics and, from what I can judge, a lot of people who REALLY get into music, so frikken' bad?

The only I can think of is that they're popular because they're non-threatening. The main audience for new records anymore is younger pre-teens. They're not going to (generally) go for a group like the Posies, or XTC, or Sebadoh. Therefore, the record companies try to get what will sell.

Oh, and tet, I also agree with the comment on people who say "I listen to everything." Usually I just nod and then ask them if they like specific groups, then I mention that those groups are in the areas they hate to piss them off. (Asking someone who hates country if they like Mary Chapin Carpenter is usually a good one.)

Anyone else's thoughts on why all popular music is watered down now? And for that matter, why does it all sound alike, dammit?

------------------
"You don't get something for nothing. You can't have freedom for free."
-Neil Peart, RUSH, "Something for Nothing"

Now Now boys and girls, you complain that there is no true rock out there anymore? You just got to stop listening to the mainstream and find a piece of a small time musician. Here are a few I can seriously say still hold a solid piece of rock.

Matthew Sweet...Now this guy knows solid smashing rock and roll. dare anyone to not listen to his best song "girlfriend" and not say so
Lenny Kravitz...early he was more frosty vibes but lately he has pulled some serious tunes that go the way of Sly and the Family Stone and the Rolling Stones. Not played very much on mainstream but he is worth a listen.
The Aquabats...these guys put fun back into rock and roll. Sorta ska but mostly just hilarious take offs that mix what can be described as Saturday Morning cartoons with great beats.
Cadillac Tramps...These boys have been the best band out of La for a long time. Solid sounds ala Animals with rockabilly mixed. Try their album Tombstone Radio for a good listen. Look around on internet for some sound clips.

Anyways, no one will replace the Stones in my hearts but I like these guys. Give them a try

I was starting to wonder the same around the time Hootie and the Blowfish came around. I would stick them in the same mainstream category as REM, but something is missing. Then I had a hard time with the visual image sent out by Don't Speak...this was just regular rock lyrics and why the nonconformist looks?
Like I said before, we need a new trend, even the metal derived trends are fizzling out.

Just go for the individual groups.

The last week I listened strictly to old Jethro Tull albums. In light of the current radio garbage, they were better than I remembered.

Live, Creed, Rusted Root, Phish, Collective Soul. All bands that have been around for a while and are just starting to be reckognized, Phish has been around for at least 10 years. Theres also a lot of Milwaukee bands that will make it someday if they keep up what there doing: Moon Crickets, Spirit Creek, Toys (not sure if that's a milwaukee band though)

As an amateur rock historian (Rock History is a bit of a hoby of mine) I have to say that the answer to this question is a definate yes.

Good rock music is still being made, but it depends heavily on your definition of good. Catchy tunes and banal lyrics are not necessarily the sign of bad bands (remember the Beatles? It took them 5-6 albums to get to the really experimental stuff. My favorite album by them is still Rubber Soul. Experimental enough to be fresh, simple enough to be entertaining). Sure, the Offspring have fun, catchy lyrics, but they unabbashedly rip off The Who and the Beatles. I do like the Offspring, however.

As far as bands doing stuff that might be considered musically interesting, the Dave Matthews Band and The Pat McGee Band have some songs that are lyrically and musically quite interesting. The Smashing Pumpkins do some wonderful stuff. It depends on what genre you are looking for. Tool has mastered the Power Chord, The Chemical Brothers and Fatboy Slim have some great big beat. The Counting Crows' album "August and Everything After" is one of the most solid albums of the past 20 years. Ska, ska-core and punk-ska bands have pushed the envelope and the results are surprisingly refreshing.

If you want my top 10 rock albums of the '90s, here you go, in no particular order:

1) Counting Crows "August and Everything After"

2) Nirvana "Nevermind"

3) Offspring "Smash"

4) Dave Matthews Band "Under the Table and Dreaming"

5) Phish "A Picture of Nectar"

6) Tool "Undertow"

7) Lemonheads "It's a Shame About Ray"

8) "DGC Rarities, Volume 1"

9) Live "Mental Jewlery"

10) The Mighty Mighty Bosstones "More Noise and Other Disturbances"

jayron says:
remember the Beatles? It took them 5-6 albums to get to the really experimental stuff. My favorite album by them is still Rubber Soul.
I wouldn't throw out the love songs. They have more lasting power. I experienced the Beatles as a kid and at the time Magical Mystery Tour was a big favorite.But now, I could probably listen to most of the albums, except Abbey Road was overplayed on radio. I wonder if there's another songwriting team that worked the same way Lennon-McCartney did. Paul's later stuff tended to be more bubblegum. John's was also a bit away from the rock he loved, perhaps consciously.
Years later, I was listening to punk era bands and was happy we were back to straight rock and roll. Jonathan Richman could do really well once in a while.

Today's music groups do not seem to be in it for the right reasons. Of course, everyone wants to make the money and have no worries, but they think all they need is one song to get into everyone's head and they can sell a few more albums because they had one hit. To me, there does not seem to be any groups that can come up with something that makes you think. A couple of today's groups that i prefer is LIVE and Zakk Wylde (Book of Shadows was real good), but there is not many groups like the Doors or Led Zeppelin around today. Anyways, i think it has all been done by now and the groups can't help but sound like and be compared to some group of the past.

If you think rock is dead, go out and buy Wilco's latest, "Summer Teeth."

You will be pleasantly surprised.

Admittedly, I don't listen to much modern music. But Rock at rock bottom? Probably not.
In 1975, I declared that Rock was dead. In 1985, I pronounced it dead for sure. In 1995?
Yes, absolutely dead for sure this time. I was wrong then and will be wrong again in the future. Does Rock hit rough spots? Yes.
Does it evolve? Certainly. But Rock'n'Roll will NEVER die!

As a 38 year old white guy, it pains me to say this, but Neil Young was wrong- rock and roll CAN die, and it probably will. Oh, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of our lives. Look, I've been a rock fan for a long time, and that's not going to change. But it's obvious that a love of rock and roll is confined to a specific group of people- namely, white folks born between (roughly) 1935 and 1970. For people older than that, rock is too loud and raucous, while for people younger than that, rock is too tame, boring and old hat. I HATE rap/hip hop music with a passion, but there's no way to deny that, in the eyes of most 90s teens, rock is for old farts (like me and their parents!), and rap is cool. Hey, don't take my word for it- look at the Billboard charts. For every rock act in the Top 40, there are 5 hip hop acts. And in general, as we get older, our musical tastes start to ossify (some would say "stagnate"). Up until, oh, 4 years ago, I was very up-to-date on all the current musical artists, but now? Now, I'm as clueless about rap as my parents were about Black Sabbath and Blue Oyster Cult! I find that, when I buy a CD, it's FAR more likely to be an album I already had on vinyl or cassette, than something new. I suspect most rock fans fall into the same boat. And that's a big part of why rock doesn't have a promising future. Its fans are old (I'm very reluctant to say this, but I AM now part of the VH1 generation!) and getting older. The YOUNG fans, who have always been the dominant force in music buying, worship the dead Tupac, not the dead Jimi. Oh, the people who love rock will never abandon it, which means that the Stones can tour til they're 85, and still make money. But rock and roll will never be the dominant music of future generations. It will never again be a unifying force in youth culture. In THAT sense, rock and roll can and will die. And why should that be surprising? EVERY style of music eventually peters out. Rock has already lasted a lot longer than ragtime or big band jazz (and about as long as Baroque!). That's impressive. But you didn't REALLY think it was going to dominate popular culture forever, did you?

Here's a Yahoo discussion with 9000+ answers to the same question. Click list and recent:
post.messages.yahoo.com/?action=m&board=7187646&tid=whateverhappenedtorealrockroll&sid=7187646&mid=1 (http://post.messages.yahoo.com/?action=m&board=7187646&tid=whateverhappenedtorealrockroll&sid=7187646&mid=1)

I agree with you, Astorian, to a certain degree. Hip hop has replaced rock as the predominant factor in most popular and youth culture.

Having said that, though, and having worked as a semi-professional musician (read: bar band) in recent years, I have seen that there are certain segments of the rock world with big, big audiences under 18. It may be a tired observation that the true state of popular music can't be gleaned by reading the Billboard charts, but there's a smidgen of truth in it.

There are a lot of small bands on small labels who never get any radio play to speak of except on the left-of-the-dial stations, no promotion, and couldn't touch gold sales with a 50-foot pole, and yet have devoted, extremely loyal followings. And these bands take as their inspiration the British Invasion bands of the 60s and the glam and power-pop bands of the 70s.

As long as there are labels like Kill Rock Stars and others of its kind, putting out good, solid rock music, I don't think it will ever die as a genre. At least I hope not! All popular art movements do mutate and die, though, so who knows?

Astorian: As a 36-year old white guy, I agree with you. But I'm still trying to find something new/current I can connect with. See below.

As far as bands that are popular or (semi-) popular and considered (by critics) good, how about Bare Naked Ladies and They Might Be Giants ? Both have been around awhile (Giants mid-80's, Ladies early 90's), have catchy tunes, and lyrics that are actually funny. Give both a try; I'd recommend BNL's debut album "Gordon", and TMBG's 4th album "Apollo 18" (both releaed in 1992).

Having devolved almost immediately into a recitation of purely subjective personal opinions, (how could it be otherwise?) I'm hoping this thread will die a quiet death and/or transmogrify itself into a MPSIMS or GD event.
-----
Nickrz
GQ Mod

Lenny Kravitz...early he was more frosty vibes but lately he has pulled some serious tunes that go the way of Sly and the Family Stone and the Rolling Stones. Not played very much on mainstream but he is worth a listen.

Not in the mainstream??? I can't seem to go 5 minutes without hearing his annoying remake of "American Woman" from Austin Powers. How much more mainstream can you get? Not to mention the fact that his latest hit is sampled on a car commercial. But Lenny is one of my favorites...his older stuff is very cool and his most recent stuff, though currently OVERplayed at the moment, will stand the test of time, IMO.