Where do these sexual fetishes come from?

[HMS Irruncible]

For the purposes of this post, I'll limit the question to leather getup and gas mask types of things.

Other fetishes, I can understand. Maybe it came from childhood sexual abuse, or innocent bathroom experimentation, or voyeurism. Maybe it came from memories of a comforting caregiver, a stern disciplinarian, or unique circumstances of a memorable early sexual experience. This is the general category where I'd put fetishes like urine, scat, shaving, body hair, fat, spanking, nurses.

Getting to the point... where does the studded leather getup and gas mask stuff come in? Particularly puzzling are the gas mask images where the mask is somehow connected to another body orifice. It seems remarkably specific, but not the kind of thing one would ever naturally encounter in life outside the fetish community. Yet it seems to have a relatively long history and doesn't appear to be going away anytime soon. If the answer is "it's inherited by way of the fetish community" then I want to know who originally came up with the idea of connecting a gas mask to the anus via a rubber tube.

I don't know if I've phrased this question well, but I hope there's a fetish scholar out there who can understand what I'm asking. It's sort of like the old saw of "who got the idea to drink cow's milk."

[Eleusis]

I don't know, but here is how to get your wife to wear them (http://www.nataliasrubberclub.com/news/en/archive_03/). (potentially not work safe)

[Ooner]

Why the assumption that fetishes have to "come from somewhere"?

[CurtC]

In the book [i]Why Things Are, Vol II: The Big Picture[i], Joel Achenbach speculates that humans' bizarre sex tastes may be an offshoot of all this brainpower which we have for understanding language. It's not that fancying gas masks and leather has any evolutionary advantages, it's just a side effect.

[Ruby]

I guess I always assumed that fetishes "came from somewhere", too. An experience as a child or a fond memory.

The one I've not "gotten" are foot fetishes. While we're taught that breast, for example, are sexy, I never got the memo that feet were particularly sexy.

[KidCharlemagne]

The gas mask thing became popular after WWII with Germans to some extent and the Brits in particular. The phenomenom was attributed to young boys having their first close contact with girls in the hypercharged imprint-friendly atmosphere of looming death while wearing gas masks. Also, maternal love and love in general, like a gas mask, can be protective yet suffocating.

[Triskadecamus]

When you compare normal human sexual behavior with anything else, you run into a big problem. What is normal human sexual behavior? There is no real norm in human sexual behavior. Humans are operating with biological instincts that evolved for an environment that no longer exists, and has not since clothing was invented. After that, everything was adjustments to the absence of "normal" sexual signals, and consequences to those adjustments.

Domesticated animals have the same difficulties, although probably less imagination. The natural normal way for horses to breed involves running, fighting, and travelling in herds. That won't work for racehorses worth millions to their owners, so the answer is to assist the horses in mating. The horses are not perverts, but the perversion is their entire sexual experience.

Now we all bathe, and remove our scent signals, replace them with artificial scent signals, paint our faces to enhance what we believe are attractive features. Then we put on or take off clothes according to fashion advice from people who may, or may not have sexual orientations similar to our own. Within statistical limits our responses to that set of artificial stimuli are labeled normal. Outside of that, they are labeled kinky.

How do you acquire a fetish? You fail to have satisfying sexual expressions over a long period, and then when you do, you associate it with whatever coincidental objects, or situations you encountered, or imagined in that experience. After than, it's sophistication, or if you prefer, being jaded.

Tris
--------------------------
"These things that are pleasin' you can hurt you somehow." ~ Don Henley & Glenn Frey ~

[aahala]

Sorry to the hijack.

A long time ago, one of these boards(this one, IIRC), had a thread something like "How do I become a dominatrix?"

It was full of helpful(?), creatative and informative suggestons.

[Diceman]

Gas mask fetishes? I thought I'd seen everything on the 'Net, but that's a new one by me.

The one I've not "gotten" are foot fetishes. While we're taught that breast, for example, are sexy, I never got the memo that feet were particularly sexy.
I've always been completely mystified by this fetish, too. Try as I might, I cannot find anything sexy about a picture of someone's feet :confused:

[groman]

I've read (sorry, no cite) that it starts off with the idea barefoot = innocent, and innocence is sexy. And then the human mind perverts it into a fetish.

[kimera]

I've always been completely mystified by this fetish, too. Try as I might, I cannot find anything sexy about a picture of someone's feet :confused:

All of your senses have corresponding parts in the brain and feet are located right next to genitals, so I am not surprised this fetish is so common.

[blowero]

This is just a guess, but I think many fetishes are about control at some level. Perhaps controlling someone's breathing might be seen as an extreme type of control. I've heard of suffocation and drowning fetishes too, and maybe these are all psychologically related. Putting them on other orifices doesn't make sense logically, but maybe it's just the idea of exploring every part of the body sexually.

Leather, I don't get at all. I can't even guess as to why people find leather to be sexy, other than the fact that restraints are often made of leather.

[ParentalAdvisory]

I've always been completely mystified by this fetish, too.

I myself am more mystified about the whole urine and scat thing. The feet thing might be a little :dubious:, but I'll take it over the urine and scat thing anyday.

[sweetfreak]

The one I've not "gotten" are foot fetishes. While we're taught that breast, for example, are sexy, I never got the memo that feet were particularly sexy.
Maybe you have never received a proper foot massage? ;)
Also, having your toes sucked on can be very stimulating.

[sweetfreak]

I myself am more mystified about the whole urine and scat thing.
As someone who can understand MOST sexual fetishes, I am with you on these two.

[Chotii]

Maybe you have never received a proper foot massage? ;)
Also, having your toes sucked on can be very stimulating.

One day, a friend tried for something like 20 minutes to convince me that a foot massage/toe sucking not only *can* be, but *should* be very sexy. No matter how many times I told him that I'm sure that it is for many people, but that I find contact with my feet about as interesting as contact with the middle of my upper back. So even a 'proper foot massage' may not do something for someone, and people for who it *is* very stimulating need to understand that other people can be wired differently. I mean, lucky folks that they are, they experience something delicious that some of us cannot! And no amount of 'proper' massage will make any difference.

[sweetfreak]

So even a 'proper foot massage' may not do something for someone, and people for who it *is* very stimulating need to understand that other people can be wired differently.
Couldn't agree more!
Can't fault me for trying, though. ;)

[Excalibre]

Leather, I don't get at all. I can't even guess as to why people find leather to be sexy, other than the fact that restraints are often made of leather.
I'm a perv through and through, and I've never gotten the appeal of leather. In a broader sense, I don't see why folks want the ritualized clothing and props for sex at all, and for some reason it seems endemic in the BDSM culture to the point that you practically need assistants to do costume changes and a props crew during the scene. I don't see the appeal in having "things" distracting one from the actual sex. At best it seems ridiculous to me.

[HMS Irruncible]

Why the assumption that fetishes have to "come from somewhere"?

It strains belief to think that the human psyche has contained a latent "gas mask" attraction that has lain dormant for millions of years, waiting patiently for the 20th century advent of chemical warfare to rear its head.

I picked the example of gas masks and leather harnesses because they are decidedly artificial (note that I'm consciously avoiding the judgement-loaded word "normal"). So by definition they have not always existed, and thus must have "come from" somewhere or "started" somehow.

Ah, it's morning, now I'm able to phrase my questions better.

[inkleberry]

I'm currently finishing my psychology doctorate. In the state I live in, psychologists are required by law to take graduate level classes in sex and sexuality. We learn all sorts of things, including all about fetishes. We also learn how to teach couples to have anal sex, special stretching exercises for virgin asses, and how to possibly cure oneself of hemmoroids in the process. Sadly, though, you aren't asking about anal sex. No one has ever asked me about it. All that learning, gone to waste.

No, what you asked about is fetishes. Specifically where they come from. The straight dope is.....no one really knows. Sure, we have *theories*. Some say they come from unfortunate coincidences where a kid is aroused and happens to see an object (say a shoe) and their libido gets transferred onto that. Some say it's biological weird wiring. Some say most people really are attracted to all sorts of things, but only a few admit it. Some say it is connected to abuse. Some religous nuts trot out the old "sin" chestnut. But no one really knows.

And as long as you and your partners are all of age, consenting, and safe, psychologists don't really care either. Unless of course you are into something super weird, then we write about you and call it a case study.

Here is a good link that can answer all sorts of sex questions in a reliable, safe, and nonjudemental way. Society for Human Sexuality (http://www.sexuality.org/) Here is a link for a strange fetish- dolphin sex. :eek: We think this FAQ is a total hoax. But hey, you wanted to know about fetishes. Dolphin Sex FAQ (likely full of crap) (http://www.sexwork.com/family/dolphins1)

Any other burning sex questions?

[easy e]

Man, my human sexuality text (Understanding Human Sexuality, 8th edition, JS Hyde and JD DeLamater, 2003) sure comes in handy.

We had a unit on fetishes and other variations in sexual behavior. Here are some quotes:

On types of fetishes:In a media fetish, the material out of which an object is made is the source of arousal . . . Media fetishes can be subdivided into hard media fetishes and soft media fetishes. In a hard media fetish, the fetish is for a hard substance, such as leather or rubber. In a soft media fetish, the substance is soft, such as fur or silk. . . In a form fetish, it is the object and its shape that are important. An example would be a shoe fetish . . . (p 422)As to why people become fetishists:Here we will consider three theoretical explanations: learning theory, cognitive theory, and the sexual addiction model . . . According to learning theory . . . fetishes result from classical conditioning, in which a learned association is built between the fetish object and sexual arousal and orgasm . . .

A second possible theoretical explanation comes from cognitive psychology . . . According to cognitive theory, fetishists (or other paraphiliacs) have a serious cognitive distortion in that they perceive a nonconventional stimulus--such as black leather boots--as erotic. Further, their perception of arousal is distorted. They feel "driven" to the sexual behavior when aroused, but the arousal may actually be caused by feelings of guilt and self-loating. Thus there is a chain in which there are initial feelings of guilt at thoughts of the unconventional behavior, which produces arousal, which is misinterpreted as sexual arousal, which leads to a feeling that the fetish ritual must be carried out; it is, there is orgasm and temporary feelings of relief, but the evaluation of the event is negative, leading to further feelings of guilt and self-loating, which perpetuates the chain.

A third theory that has been advanced to explain some paraphilias, especially those that seem compulsive, is the theory of sexual addiction . . . (pp423-425).
It goes on to say that there's a continuum from normal to abnormal fetishes, from mild preference to substitute for a human partner. It's only if the object is a necessity or a substitute that it is considered abnormal.

[HMS Irruncible]

Again, not talking about "normal vs. abnormal" here, just trying to figure out how it first occurred that someone thought, "hmm. gas masks. there's just something really erotic about gas masks. Now I must have a wank and go start a fetish subculture."

[inkleberry]

Again, not talking about "normal vs. abnormal" here, just trying to figure out how it first occurred that someone thought, "hmm. gas masks. there's just something really erotic about gas masks. Now I must have a wank and go start a fetish subculture."


I personally find clown sex to be stranger. Oh, and the people who fetishize balloon popping. Seriously. Ballons popping. :confused:

[Walloon]

The gas mask fetish is a particular example of a more general theme: abegnation, or the intentional limitation of body function or movement, and the associated psychological humbling. The gas mask with the tube limits breathing, and forces the wearer to breath in whatever his dominator/-trix chooses.

Bondage is abegnation.

[Walloon]

Whoops, that should be abnegation. Self-denial.

[Diceman]

I myself am more mystified about the whole urine and scat thing. The feet thing might be a little :dubious:, but I'll take it over the urine and scat thing anyday.
Actually, I've never understood scat and "watersports" either. But I didn't want to mention them, because I was afraid that someone would try to explain the appeal :P

(Mods, we really need a barfy smiley.)

[HMS Irruncible]

The gas mask fetish is a particular example of a more general theme: abegnation, or the intentional limitation of body function or movement, and the associated psychological humbling. The gas mask with the tube limits breathing, and forces the wearer to breath in whatever his dominator/-trix chooses.

Bondage is abegnation.
Brilliant. This makes some sense. Thank you.

Since (it seems) a lot of the fetish getup looks vaguely like Nazi-type uniforms, could gas masks are related to the whole Nazi meme? I wonder if a lot of what we consider modern fetish didn't have offshoots in the sexual practices of Nazi officers, who I understand were given to sexual experimentation and had basically an unlimited number of people who they could potentially dominate or control in concentration camps and occupied contries. Perhaps both the dominatonts and submissives found these experiences powerful enough that they continued the behavior in a more consenting environment after the war.

I don't know, that's just a theory that was rattling around in the basement of my brain as I asked this question.

[HMS Irruncible]

I just want to apologize for all the spelling and usage errors in the last post, as well as the mis-edits. I'm only 33, can my brain already be turning to mush?

[Walloon]

You can find leather, bondage, and fetish themes in underground literature from the 18th (De Sade) and 19th (Sacher-Masoch) centuries. Long before Nazis.

[easy e]

Again, not talking about "normal vs. abnormal" here, just trying to figure out how it first occurred that someone thought, "hmm. gas masks. there's just something really erotic about gas masks. Now I must have a wank and go start a fetish subculture."

I just brought that up at the end. The rest of that post was about theories of how fetishes--from mild to wild--develop.

[Excalibre]

Actually, I've never understood scat and "watersports" either. But I didn't want to mention them, because I was afraid that someone would try to explain the appeal :P

(Mods, we really need a barfy smiley.)
I don't see why it's that puzzling. Certainly it seems unpleasant to those not interested in it, but then, don't most fetishes? A lot of sexual fetishism seems to be oriented around power or humiliation issues - the desire to be in power over another, or to have another hold power over you. I don't see why getting pissed on seems any more remarkable, really, than getting tied up or suffocated. It seems pretty natural, actually: the excretory organs are the same as the genitals, so no puzzling issues of why the body part would be associated with sex. And taking a nice whiz/dump is a very pleasant sensation, albeit not a sexual one. So you combine the taboos associated with bathroom matters, the strong humiliation aspect, and the inherent physical pleasures of going to the bathroom - there you go. Of course, unlike most fetishes, playing with your wastes poses some medical risks. Especially poo - our own Qadgop the Mercotan has stated that something like 50% of the contents of your shit is bacteria. I should imagine that this is enough to drive most people away from trying it (because, really, shouldn't there be some sensible limits on trying new things? Eww.)

Now someone needs to explain the attraction of women in uncomfortable shoes stepping on bugs. Because that one puzzles the hell out of me.

[KidCharlemagne]

I don't find any fetishes particularly puzzling though I do find them fascinating. The scat and urine is an easy one: Is there anything more submissive than being accepting of something another body considers unworthy? Ernest Becker wrote an interesting analysis of Hitler's desire to be shat on by his mistresses. It has to do with the psychic balancing of his megalomania with something equally but oppositely humiliating. I think I explained the gas mask fetish pretty clearly. A foot fetish is often considered to be the result of the proximity of an infant to the foot of an adult combined with the it's phallic similarities during a time of maximum imprinting. The fetish for amputees has a similar phallic origin with the added bonus of simulated castration. Balloon popping? There is a build-up and release similar to orgasm with the added jouissance of the startling sound.

Ok, there is one fetish I find odd. That of being turned on by pictures of women stepping on cell phones. I suspect that this is mostly a foot fetish with perhaps a slight projection of the phallus upon the cell phone.

If you think the above is a bunch of Freudian mumbo-jumbo, I entreat you to read fetish case histories with a subsequent analysis.

[Ruby]

Maybe you have never received a proper foot massage? ;)
Also, having your toes sucked on can be very stimulating.
The fetish (as I understand it) is not being on the receiving end of a good foot massage or toe sucking. I'm referring to the person that gets turned on by someone elses foot.

I've seen the cellphone stompers and thought the web page was a joke and I was just getting whooshed.