A question for women, how great an accomplishment is it to be thin

[Wesley Clark]

In Paul Campos's book the obesity myth (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592400663/104-1007669-7659956?v=glance) he mentions a leading feminist (I can't remember her name) who also had a doctorate and was a famous pundit. This feminist who was chubby and lost weight said to him something along the lines of 'even though I accomplished alot in a male dominated field, I make great money and I have an advanced degree, fitting into a size 6 dress was a greater accomplishment' and her bemoaning how bad it felt tolhave her priorities that way and for her self worth to be so tied to her weight.

So for those of you women who are overweight, would you consider losing weight to be a major accomplishment, even moreso than getting advanced college degrees, or being great parents, or being good people or being in the top 10% of wage earners?

I know its not likely people are going to come out and say 'I felt like losing weight was a better accomplishment than being a good parent' even if its true but its worth a shot to ask it anyway.

[butter pie]

This is really screwed up, but probably the best I ever felt about myself, in spite of everything, was when I had (because of severe depression) literally starved myself down to just under 100lbs. It really did feel like a great accomplishment to get into a size 2 pair of pants. I'm 5'3" and now currently trying to shake about 15 or so pounds so I can get down that small again. This time I'm using DDR and trying to just eat healthier, but if I really had the resolve to starve myself, I probably would. Alone, I can simply not eat, but when you have friends around you eating all the time it's much harder.

It's screwed up, I know, but I have a lot of weight issues. I was picked on and shunned a lot as a kid because I was fat, even my (fat) parents picked on me, so there you have it.

I did a comic about it, where I was trying on a dress, and even though it looked fine (I rationally know it looks fine) I still looked/felt like a total lardass to myself in the mirror, and I threw the dress away. A lot of guys wrote to ask what it meant, because they didn't get it, but I knew/know a lot of other ladies who feel exactly the same way.

[Sattua]

Well, I am getting a Ph.D. with what has been, for me, the same amount of effort as every other stage of my schooling. I try like heck to lose weight, though, and it doesn't work. So yeah, getting down to a size 6 would be a major accomplishment.

[pasunejen]

Ditto the PhD thing. The PhD might mean more in the abstract, but I'd definitely feel accomplished if I could lose and keep off the excess poundage I'm carrying around.

Being a good girlfriend, daughter, sister, friend, and eventually parent is a bigger accomplishment, but it's rare that you get any concrete evidence as such--certainly nothing like, "Hey, I fit in these teeny tiny little jeans now!" or "Look at this pretty piece of paper the university just gave me!" That makes it harder to really feel the accomplishment.

[pasunejen]

...but I'd definitely feel accomplished...

Should be more accomplished.

[Zoe]

{b]Wesley[/b], thanks for asking. Interesting question.

I am 5'3' and small-boned. When I was in my twenties, I could have weighed anywhere from 105 to 130 and have been reasonably healthy. Sometimes I did weigh as low as 125, but I always wanted to weigh less. At that time I think it probably was more important to me than an advanced degree or lots of money. The most important thing to me was being pretty and being married.

With the women's movement, I began to gain confidence. Being independent and strong became increasingly important. By then I already had my degree and could teach. I began to travel felt comfortable in my skin. When I was thirty, I married. Then I gained weight.

I became obese. At 300 pounds, that pretty much defined who I was. My confidence was gone. I was depressed. For years.

In my fifties, I had surgery and lost half of the weight. I don't have to weigh 125 to be happy with my self anymore. Money isn't it either. And it's not degrees. It's the moment. It's savoring. Because I'm more relaxed with myself, I seem to be able to be a little more patient with others.

[Carnac the Magnificent!]

In my fifties, I had surgery and lost half of the weight. I don't have to weigh 125 to be happy with my self anymore. Money isn't it either. And it's not degrees. It's the moment. It's savoring. Because I'm more relaxed with myself, I seem to be able to be a little more patient with others.


You sound like a beautiful woman. ;)

[gfloyd]

I'm sorry, I lived with a girl whose self worth was tied to her weight and she was annoying to live with and truly unhealthy, but wouldn't and still won't listen to anyone who says that, because she is now an 8 or a 10, rather than a 16 or an 18. Sure losing weight feels good, I have to agree, but when it's the greatest accomplishment you've ever had, then you are sick or have led a life I couldn't imagine. However, is you have the mind set that thin is good and thinner is better, it can be a downward spirl into eating disorders and destroying your health. And while the girl I lived insisted she was happy and that her rather insane diet caused her no problems, when we would suggest doing something or going somewhere where she might be tempted or where there wasn't enough vegetables to make her happy, she'd start screaming at us for not respecting her or her efforts to stay thin.

Really, that's no way to live.

[Girl From Mars]

I struggled with my weight basically my whole life, and finally decided I'd get it under control by the time I was 30 - which I did, I'm now in the midpoint of my healthy weight range with 6 months to go!

It takes a lot more than self control sometimes to lose the weight - I had to look at the emotions behind why I confort ate, ate when I wasn't hungry etc. So it is both a triumph over body and mind, and in that regard, is a much harder thing than a lot of other things I had done.

I also felt totally in control of myself, and that's a great feeling. No more frustration or guilt if I ate something I shouldn't etc, or couldn't find things to wear. And that's not related to the 'sex-appeal factor' - it probably equates to someone who can't stop gambling etc - that out of control feeling. Mastering that feels great.

It's probably always going to be something I need to focus on, so I'm sure I'll get neurotic from time to time (apologies to now and future boyfriends!)

[Amazon Floozy Goddess]

A lot of women see weight loss as a great accomplisment mostly because of the importance that the media places on being thin. "Thin=Beautiful", and all that other crap.

I had gallstones 5 years ago and was very sick for months before it was diagnosed. I went from about 140lbs (I'm 5'3") to 115 lbs. Sounds like an average weight for my height, but for my build it was too thin. My cheeks were hollow and I could see all of my ribs - it was kind of scary. And yet, never did I get more compliments on how good I looked than I did during that time - when I was sick and literally starving.

Hooray for the media. >:(

[lel]

Attention whore side of me speaking:

Nobody would notice if I went to grad school, got a great job, whatever. However, the moment I lose 30 pounds, it's attention galore.

That's major enticement for an attention whore.

[yosemite]

Doing something that requires discipline (if indeed your weight issues can be resolved by discipline) definitely make you feel great about yourself. Like it's one more monkey off of your back.

However, some of my other accomplishments (related to talents and education) are what really give me a sense of pride. The weight thing? It's a different kind of pride. I won't deny that society is selling us a load of bullshit and is trying to tell us that we're nothing if we're not thin. I'm not saying that I haven't fallen prey to that line at times. But deep down, it's the accomplishments that are unique to me that give me the most satisfaction. It took a while to get there, though. Like others have said, the instant positive feedback from being thin is pretty powerful.

[Athena]

Well, I guess I gotta be the odd woman out.

Granted, I've never been obese, so I can't really speak for those who have and have since lost weight - I suspect it's much different for them because the weight changes your life more - it's uncomfortable to be obese, you can't do physical activities, and the social impact is much greater. But I've been big and I've been medium/normal (about a 30 pound swing for me), and my general happiness and outlook on life sure as hell had nothing to do with either. I don't have a PhD, so I can't compare it to that, either. :D

Sure, it's nice to fit into those size 10s (my smallest size pants - I'm 5'6") but really, my life is about the same whether I'm wearing those or the 14s.

[anu-la1979]

Before christmas vacation my mom told me no Indian guy would ever marry me unless I lost weight (I'm 5'3" and I was a size 6...I was at the higher end of normal on BMI). Now I'm close to a 22 BMI and every single time I see my parents they tell me how wonderful and perfect I look (I'm a few weeks away from a size 4 now). I would not rate this as an accomplishment but I am somewhat obsessed with it, eat a 1200 calorie diet and exercise like crazy, as I would like to never be talked to in that manner again. And hurtful as it is, I sort of agree with my mom, Indian men have somewhat psychotic standards when it comes to women (no offense to any Indian men out there) and I really wasn't meeting them.

[Abbie Carmichael]

So for those of you women who are overweight, would you consider losing weight to be a major accomplishment, even moreso than getting advanced college degrees, or being great parents, or being good people or being in the top 10% of wage earners?

Losing weight is a greater accomplishment than pretty much anything, provided we are talking about non-surgical weight loss. I have no problem with people who have WLS; I'd do it in a heartbeat if God would let me (believe you me, I've begged). But I just can't see them as having "accomplished" anything. You get the surgery, you HAVE to lose weight, you have no choice. It is weight loss at gunpoint. A far, far cry from someone who did it the old fashioned way.

Having been fat all my life, it seems as though nothing I do really matters. I'm a good mom. I'm about to graduate from college. I'm a good person. I'm considered poor at the moment, but I handle what money I do have responsibly, and someday I'll probably be at least somewhat wealthy.

Nobody's kissing my ass for those things, though. I have a nice extended family, but I know the only thing that I could *EVER* do to get them all excited would be to get thin. I could win the Nobel Prize in literature, but even that wouldn't compare to how I know they'd all react if I showed up at a family reunion a slim 140 lbs or so. It's "okay" for the men in my family to have big huge guts, but the only thing that counts for the women is being thin. All of my female cousins have done something "wrong:" some have gotten into a little trouble with the law, some HAD to get married because they were knocked up, one's a pathological lying bitch, one's just flat out crazy, and others have had drug problems. All of that is forgivable, though, provided they're repentant. Being fat, though? *THE* unforgivable sin. No matter how good you are, the weight is all they see. It's not that they say anything to my face, and I know that they do see my good qualities and love me. But I know what's going through their heads.

I think the reason people (including myself) consider weight loss to be such an accomplishment is because you are fighting your flesh. Every day you have to come into contact with a substance that you are addicted to: you can't just stop eating. Three times a day or so, you are flirting with temptation. There is no end to it. I guess in a way it'd be like an alcoholic having to walk through a booze store several times a day. And that's just the times you're physically hungry: that's not even counting the times that you're bored, sad, lonely, frustrated, etc., and you can't turn to your drug of choice anymore to sedate you (you can, but you'll stay fat). Those who successfully fight that torment day after day after day for the rest of their lives really have accomplished something.

Going to school is easy once you get into a routine. Even complete idiots can be good parents, too, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out how to keep your kid alive and instill some values. Being in the top 10% of wage earners is great, but I think most people see that as dumb luck: we all know brilliant people who are poor as dirt, and really really stupid people who are very rich.

[amarinth]

As sad as it is - getting down to my target weight (which is still 15 pounds above my ideal weight) is taking longer and many times feels harder than almost anything else that I've tried to accomplish or have accomplished.

Even getting close feels like I've done this huge thing.

And get real, people who see me do not think or say "Wow, she's an accomplished woman who has donedone <fill in list of things that I am genuinely proud of>," while they do think or say "Wow, she's an ugly, fat chick" And sometimes, that's louder than the inner voice that should tell me that I'm not my weight.

[SusanStoHelit]

I also felt totally in control of myself, and that's a great feeling. No more frustration or guilt if I ate something I shouldn't etc, or couldn't find things to wear. And that's not related to the 'sex-appeal factor' - it probably equates to someone who can't stop gambling etc - that out of control feeling. Mastering that feels great.

To other people who struggle with their weight: do you also feel out-of-control when it comes to food? I've only heard this idea once or twice before- most people I've talked to don't (or won't admit to) feeling that way.

[Telperien]

No, I don't consider losing weight to be a greater accomplishment than those things Wesley Clark listed. However, losing weight feels like a greater accomplishment, as others have said, because it will be acknowledged in a way that those other achievements probably won't.


To other people who struggle with their weight: do you also feel out-of-control when it comes to food? I've only heard this idea once or twice before- most people I've talked to don't (or won't admit to) feeling that way.

I guess the way I feel about it could be described as out-of-control. I feel sometimes that food is my enemy. I have to beat it or it will defeat me. I'm constantly thinking about food, planning my next meal, looking forward to grocery shopping. It rules my life and I can't figure out how it got to this point.

[Essured]

I measure myself by different standards than most of the people I know.

Healthy weight loss is an accomplishment, IMO, but not that great a one when compared to many other things in life. I don't know how I'd quantify the 'greatness' of the accomplishment, but it wouldn't make my personal top ten accomplishment list.

[Abbie Carmichael]

I feel sometimes that food is my enemy.

Totally.

I also see it as kind of a party that everyone else is invited to but me.

[Telperien]

Totally.

I also see it as kind of a party that everyone else is invited to but me.

Oh, yes.

The thing is, I like food. I try not to eat without paying attention to my food. I always notice the taste of what I'm eating, and I don't eat anything that I don't actually like. (Are there people who just eat, regardless of what it is?) So I'm not just shoveling stuff madly into my face. But it's a two-sided thing. I often wish I could lose the desire to eat. When I had my own gall bladder troubles, I barely ate for several weeks. I simply lost my appetite almost completely. I was just too sick to think of food. That was the only good thing about the whole episode.

[Jennyrosity]

I can understand why women feel that way, and have felt it myself. Nothing gets you bigger congrats from female friends than dropping a dress size - how many times do you see women greet each other with "OMG, you look amazing! Have you lost weight?" I did it myself with a formerly fat friend I saw at Christmas, then went home in an agony of self-loathing at how good she looked, when I used to be the skinny one.

Recently though, I've had a change in thought and attitude when I realised something: I was at my thinnest when I was at my unhappiest. I was desperately poor, in a terrible relationship, and too depressed to be bothered to eat. I asked myself if I would swop what I have now for what I had then, and of course, the answer was no, no way, never in a million years. Not for the best figure in the universe.

[N. Sane]

Well, lessee --

I overcame a background of abuse and neglect
I have co-written one book with my sister
I have overcome some unpleasant health difficulties
I have dealt with infertility and have come to peace with where I'm at now
I'm dealing with some problems in my marriage, but hanging in there
I graduated with my B.A. (cum laude) in English after having worked full-time and attended school full-time and had multiple surgical procedures at the same time
I now have a brand new career that's eating me alive
I'm working on other book projects

. . .

but I'm fat. I'll admit to feeling out of control with food. I eat when I'm happy; I'm eat when I'm worried or depressed or anygry. I realize it's not healthy, but it's how I cope. I'm sick and tired of people feeling that because they can see that I'm fat, my problems are their business. I'm tired of my husband telling me how easy it is to lose weight. I'm tired of being made to feel like I'm of less worth than another individual who is slim. Yes, I'd love to be slim and healthy. I don't know how to do it. That doesn't mean I don't know how to eat right (because I do), and that doesn't mean I don't understand how weight loss works (because I do). What it means is that I don't know how to deal with everything else that's trying to eat me alive right now, and I've got more important things to deal with.

I have found a place to shop that stocks attractive, affordable, well-fitting clothes for my size. I take care of myself, and I think I'm a beautiful woman. I look good. If someone thinks only people who fit into a certain body weight are attractive, well, then that person won't find me attractive. But to a person who looks at the whole picture, I think I'm an awesome person.

[susan_foster]

No, I don't consider losing weight to be a greater accomplishment than those things Wesley Clark listed. However, losing weight feels like a greater accomplishment, as others have said, because it will be acknowledged in a way that those other achievements probably won't.

I guess the way I feel about it could be described as out-of-control. I feel sometimes that food is my enemy. I have to beat it or it will defeat me. I'm constantly thinking about food, planning my next meal, looking forward to grocery shopping. It rules my life and I can't figure out how it got to this point.

This describes me perfectly. I was obese - about 4 years ago I joined WW - lost the weight. April 21 will be three years for me at/below my goal weight - and I still obsess. I love food - I love to cook. I love to eat - and I still do. I can definitely be obsessive. There's a part of me that says - "Counting works for you - you don't want to go back to the way you were, do you? You like being able to reach in your closet, put an outfit together, and know you look good? You've read the stories of people who stop counting & put it back on - you don't want that do you?". Then there's the other part of me that says - "But you're counting & re-counting. You're eating stuff that you don't necessarily want at the end of the day, because you didn't reach the minimum for the day. You're teetering on the brink of a binge." It's unhealthy, I know.

I don't binge & purge - I eat - but I know rationally that I am on the hairy edge.

Susan

[Dung Beetle]

N. Sane, I'd like to read that book.

As for the OP, I'll just say that I've always been real skinny, which has let me in for some hostility from other women, and I myself have never liked my body. On the other hand, when I decided to gain a few pounds, it was hard psychologically to allow myself to do. I was terrified of becoming fat. Sometimes, not being fat was the only thing I could say I liked about myself. I couldn't even call it an "accomplishment" either!

[Dung Beetle]

My last post sounds awfully insensitive when I read it back. All that rambling was meant to make the point that for women, weight is very closely tied to self-esteem, as are looks in general, so I completely understand that weight loss is an important achievement. It's like beating an addiction and the people who reach their goals are rightfully proud of what they have been able to do.

[AHunter3]

...currently trying to shake about 15 or so pounds so I can get down that small again. This time I'm using DDR and trying to just eat healthier...

:confused:

There's a double-data rate diet for geeks?

[taxi78cab]

I'm happy with my weight/size. I'm 140-something (I don't own a scale.) and 5'8" which makes me reasonably thin, but not unhealthily thin. But despite liking my body and being happy with my size, I still obsess over food. I worry almost every day that I've eaten too much. (I don't diet and I don't starve myself though. For example, I've had a nice bowl of ice cream every day for the last 4 days. And really enjoyed it every time!) But I do spend a LOT of time thinking about what I'm going to eat, planning, cooking, eating, and then thinking about what I ate. If I'm upset, I'm even more likely to think about it and/or to give in to cravings. It's just really hard not to obsess.

And to the OP, I do feel that it is an accomplishment for me to keep my weight where it is. It's not as big as going to grad school, but then again in some ways it is. Grad school was temporary, and getting the degree was a momentus thing. But it was a one-time thing, and now it's done and over. Keeping my weight steady, feeling good about how I look, and having people check me out is an on-going thing. It's a little positive feedback every day, and I certainly don't get that from the degree hanging on my wall. I suppose I could look up at it and think "Go me! I have a Master's degree" but somehow it just doesn't have the same impact, which really is unfortunate, but true.

[tremorviolet]

So for those of you women who are overweight, would you consider losing weight to be a major accomplishment, even moreso than getting advanced college degrees, or being great parents, or being good people or being in the top 10% of wage earners?

I'm not particularly overweight but I'm always battling those last five pounds. It's insane the amount of attention and focus I waste on my weight. Intellectually, I know that's crap but deep down I'd trade ten IQ points to have the "perfect" figure...

[Indygrrl]

Sadly, a woman's worth is often tied to her looks, so I'm sure losing a large amount of weight would feel like a huge accomplishment. It's easy to look at an overweight woman and feel judgmental.

I don't know why that is, because it's wrong and mean, but it does go through my head sometimes. Especially at work, with higher ups who are fat. Oh, the things that go through my head. But, I guess as long as I don't say it out loud...

I've been lucky as far as weight goes, but then, I've always worked out and kept a healthy diet. So, I don't consider my looks an "accomplishment," I consider it part good genetics and some hard work, and I always consider it a choice. Even if I had terrible genetics, there's no way I would let myself get fat.

[Draelin]

Recently though, I've had a change in thought and attitude when I realised something: I was at my thinnest when I was at my unhappiest.
I totally sympathize with this.

In my entire post-pubescent life, I have never been smaller than a size 12. Currently, I flutter between 16 and 18, and have been doing so for quite a few years (for the record, I'm five-foot-nothing).

Any woman in my situation can tell you how difficult it can be to be "fat." I live in the New York Metro Area, which means that men expect their women to be even thinner than usual. I don't get a lot of dates, despite being intelligent, witty, honest, at least mildly charming, and any number of other things that can be considered advantages in the dating world. I spend a lot of time being an extra wheel on group outings with my thinner, more dateable friends.

But you know what? I like me. I don't think I'm morbidly obese, and I'm okay with that. I'm chubby. Maybe I'm even chunky. But I'm not disgusting, and I'm not disgusted with myself. This is who I am. When I was a kid, I tried to diet, mostly because my mother suggested it, or because I felt out of place beside the other girls I knew. But it doesn't really work. Never has. I've never worn a single-digit dress size, and I don't expect I ever will. I watch my friends starve themselves and count calories and give up carbs and stairmaster until their legs catch fire, and I think nothing more than "Well, if it's what she wants, that's fine. I, on the other hand, am going to go have dinner."

I can't say it doesn't feel good when I discover that I can buy a "large" rather than an "extra large." And it might be that I'm a little lazy, but more than anything else, I feel I shouldn't have to change in order for the world at large to accept me. I can honestly say that the only area in which my weight works against me is the Land of Romance, but do I want to spend the next year fighting my natural inclinations for pasta and a night on the couch watching movies just to meet someone who wouldn't look twice at me when I was fat? Is that the person I want? Is it the person I want to be? I don't think so.

I've been miserable in my life, and I'm sure I will get miserable again every now and then. I'd rather be fat and happy than thin and depressed, personally. If my refusal to lose weight for the benefit of others manages to keep me single for the rest of my life, so be it. I'll get thirty cats and sit on my porch with a shotgun. But dammit, I'll enjoy myself, and eat ice cream while I do it.

[Green Cymbeline]

Having been fat all my life, it seems as though nothing I do really matters. I'm a good mom. I'm about to graduate from college. I'm a good person. I'm considered poor at the moment, but I handle what money I do have responsibly, and someday I'll probably be at least somewhat wealthy.

Nobody's kissing my ass for those things, though. I have a nice extended family, but I know the only thing that I could *EVER* do to get them all excited would be to get thin. I could win the Nobel Prize in literature, but even that wouldn't compare to how I know they'd all react if I showed up at a family reunion a slim 140 lbs or so. It's "okay" for the men in my family to have big huge guts, but the only thing that counts for the women is being thin. All of my female cousins have done something "wrong:" some have gotten into a little trouble with the law, some HAD to get married because they were knocked up, one's a pathological lying bitch, one's just flat out crazy, and others have had drug problems. All of that is forgivable, though, provided they're repentant. Being fat, though? *THE* unforgivable sin. No matter how good you are, the weight is all they see. It's not that they say anything to my face, and I know that they do see my good qualities and love me. But I know what's going through their heads.
Wow. Abbie, I could have said the exact same thing about my family. It would never be spoken out loud, but I know how much importance is put on looks and weight in my family. My mom and her sisters are thin and beautiful. Her brothers are handsome and fit. My male cousins are all handsome and fit. My female cousins are beautiful, thin and shapely.

Until I was about 22, I had the perfect body too. Then I ballooned and gained at least 50 pounds. My mom told me that once when I came home from college for a visit, when she saw how much weight I had gained since the last visit, she cried. I'm 29 now. I had lost some of it, like 30 pounds after college, but gained it all back. It was devastating for my parents. Now I was the ONLY chunky member of my family, and I knew that everyone was judging me.

Finally, just in the past few months, I have made my best effort yet to lose the weight. I have lost almost 30 pounds so far and am determined to lose at least another 20. Part of it is that I have a very strong motivation - a new boyfriend who I am totally in love with. But the reaction I get from my family is amazing. You would think I found a cure for cancer. They say they just want me to be happy, but it still hurts that so much attention is paid to my weight. But still, I am a slave to it.

I have had so many other awesome accomplishments with school and career and other things, but the focus is on looks. It's never explicitly said, but everyone knows it.

The "daddy's little girl" side of me is the most affected. I have felt so ashamed for years because I worry so much about what my dad thinks of me. He would never say it, but I know that it pains him that his once-skinny beautiful daughter is overweight. He bought me a $500 membership to a gym for Christmas. My parents have promised me a $1,000 shopping spree for new clothes. They are even probably going to give me a trip to Cancun that they have saved up - my mom said, "you know, if you keep losing the weight, by summer I know dad will agree that we should give you the trip to Cancun!"

Anyway, to answer the question... yes, I feel like losing weight is the hardest thing I have ever done. If I get to where I want to be, yes, it will be my best accomplishment. In comparison, college was easy, work is easy. All the other things I have done that I am proud of were much easier than losing the weight. It's really sad, isn't it. But that is the world we live in.

[pasunejen]

I've been miserable in my life, and I'm sure I will get miserable again every now and then. I'd rather be fat and happy than thin and depressed, personally. If my refusal to lose weight for the benefit of others manages to keep me single for the rest of my life, so be it. I'll get thirty cats and sit on my porch with a shotgun. But dammit, I'll enjoy myself, and eat ice cream while I do it.

I commend you for this attitude; it's one I'm striving toward. Everything is so much better when I can think that way--and actually, I tend to lose a few pounds in that state. Not all the weight, not by a long shot, but I drop to around a size 14 from a 16 without actually trying, just because I'm able to feel comfortable with myself. Even then I still think about getting down to a 10 or so (which, at 5'6 with naturally wide hips is probably the smallest I'd ever be able to get), but I don't feel like I'm a bad human being for not going ahead and doing it.

It's just those times when I can't think that way...Ugh. But then, in that mindset I'd feel fat and ugly even if I were a size 6 and had the face of an angel.

[Abbie Carmichael]

Intellectually, I know that's crap but deep down I'd trade ten IQ points to have the "perfect" figure...

Put me down for 30.

I've known people of all levels of intellect and sizes. It's okay to be stupid if you're beautiful. If you're smart and fat, nobody cares. I wouldn't be happy knowing I was stupid, but dumb, pretty girls seem to have a lot easier time of it than even the most brilliant fat girls.

I don't know why that is, because it's wrong and mean, but it does go through my head sometimes. Especially at work, with higher ups who are fat. Oh, the things that go through my head.

I think everyone in the world has this problem. I know that *nobody* would respect me if they could read my mind. I think some pretty bad stuff sometimes, too.

Even if I had terrible genetics, there's no way I would let myself get fat.

No disrespect here. I'm not saying that you don't know your own mind, but when I hear thin people say stuff like this it makes me laugh. Nobody knows what they'd REALLY do in a situation until they're in it. You've never been fat, thus you've never had a fat mentality.

Yeah, maybe you would do whatever you had to do to stay thin. Or maybe, like a lot of us, you'd keep banging your head against the wall, trying over and over and over again until you finally are so beaten down by it that you give up, or resort to something drastic.

Especially when you are literally born like this, there's only so much failure you can take until you either risk your life and get surgery, or just try to find a way to accept yourself as you are.

And yes, you can be born fat. I was. Yeah, I'm losing weight now, slowly, because I know what giving up would entail. I'd never stop gaining weight, probably, and I figure I owe it to myself and my family to KEEP trying until I figure this thing out for myself. Everything else being equal, though, I think overcoming a drug addiction would be a walk in the park compared to losing weight.

[alice_in_wonderland]

I've never really considered losing weight an accomplishment, but I have also never had much trouble losing weight. I was diagnosed last year with hypothyroidism, and this year the extra X-mas lbs didn't seem to want to come off as quickly, but then I had my dose of synthroid adjusted and they went. I'm just not a real big person.

However, my mom is much shorter than I am, and has struggled with her weight my whole life (probably her whole life as well), so I can certainly emphathise with someone in that position. -

[CrazyCatLady]

To other people who struggle with their weight: do you also feel out-of-control when it comes to food? I've only heard this idea once or twice before- most people I've talked to don't (or won't admit to) feeling that way.

It's not an out-of-control feeling, exactly, more of an out-of-balance feeling. For me, my weight and eating habits are like trying to walk a tightrope with an inner-ear infection--I just can't seem to catch my balance and keep falling off the goddam thing. It's mostly that I know the most effective way of controlling your weight is to watch what you eat, but I'm scared of becoming food-obsessed.

We all know That Woman, the one who's constantly thinking and talking about how many calories/fat grams/carbs are in her lunch or someone else's, about how many calories she's had this week, about how she's going to have to exercise for x amount of time to burn off that spoonful of ice cream, blah blah blah blah. I don't want to be That Woman. I hate being around That Woman for short periods; I don't think I could live with her the rest of my life. I'd rather look like a beached whale and shop exclusively at MuumuusRUs for the rest of my life than become That Woman.

At the same time, though, I worry about my health. I've got a truly impressive family history of heart disease, and I'm scared of putting Dr.J through what we've gone through with my father. I saw my mother's face when the surgeon told us about the prognosis for Daddy's bypass, and the idea that I might put that look on his face because I just randomly shovel crap into my face all the time just breaks my heart.

So I try to walk the tightrope of being mindful of what I eat--not just randomly scarfing crap, but not obsessing about it either. I always lose my balance and fall off, and because of my fear of becoming That Woman I always fall onto the randomly scarfing side.

[Kaitlyn]

I've never had to lose a bunch of weight, but I do harbor a fear of becoming overweight, because I fear that that would make me appear unfeminine, which is a deep seated phobia of mine.

If you add up all the time I've spent in the gym, walking around the walking path at the park, planning and preparing meals that are healthy (lots of steamed rice and vegetables), it doesn't add up to more time than I spent getting my PhD. yet, but it time it will.

But I don't think it's something I think of as an accomplishment in and of itself, so much as something that allows me to enjoy my other accomplishments. If I were to become fat, I can see how that could become the focus of my life and not let me enjoy the other good things.

[bump]

So for those of you women who are overweight, would you consider losing weight to be a major accomplishment, even moreso than getting advanced college degrees, or being great parents, or being good people or being in the top 10% of wage earners?


Well, I'm a man, but I think it's the same for anyone.

Back at the beginning of 2000, I weighed 270 lbs. By August of that year I weighed 210. I lost 60 lbs, and was 4 pants sizes smaller (went from a 42 to a 36).

I just got done getting my second master's degree.

Know which one made me happier? Yep.. the weight loss, even though I've gained most of it back.

The reason the weight loss was more gratifying is because it was more difficult. Graduate school wasn't really that hard, while losing 60 lbs took a LOT more dedication and discipline than getting through a second-tier MBA program and a MS program ever came close to requiring.

There were the added benefits of more attention from the ladies, etc... but the fundamental thing that made me happy was the feeling of accomplishment and having met a challenge.

[mlerose]

This is such a depressing subject.

I always thought that I'd be able to keep genetics at bay with healthy eating and lots of regular exercise. Then, last year, I switched birth control pills (the new one was cheaper; I needed the cash) and proceeded to gain about 25 pounds over the 8 months I was on that pill - it was all fat and put me up to a 24.5 BMI from a 21.5 or 22. During that time, I trained for a marathon, sometimes running 35 or 40 miles a week (and not eating any more than I normally did). The weight came steadily on. And the scary thing was, I gained weight in places I'd never had it before, like my upper arms and my abdomen/rib cage area. I would look in the mirror and think, "Who is that person? She looks nothing like me!" It was really scary to all of a sudden be so much bigger and shaped differently, because I HADN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG. I never ate junk. I exercised all the time. I gained weight anyway.

Finally, I went off that pill. I kept gaining weight. Every time I'd ever gone off a BCP before, I'd lost weight instantly, usually getting to be too thin. But not this time. I think it really messed up my metabolism. Finally, I started eating 1200 calories a day and working out 5-6 days a week for an hour to 1.5 hours at a time. And SLOWLY, slowly I started to lose the weight. I've still probably got 10 pounds to go. For me, it's difficult because my normal diet has never contained junk food. I've always exercised regularly, and I have a lot of muscle tissue (more genetics) so weight training does nothing for me but bulk me up further.

But recently I bought some pairs of 7/8 jeans. Most, but not all of my pre-evil-pill clothes fit. I'd like to get back down to a 6, but I don't know if that will ever happen. Mostly, I'd like to look in the mirror and be able to say, "There she is! I'm back!"

Intellectually, I know that my body image is slightly dysmorphic and it's irrational to feel such a huge accomplishment when I realize I've gotten smaller (I took my measurements this weekend; I'd lost an inch in my waist since my previous measurement and I did a mental happy dance all day afterward). I had some near-anorexic months in high school and I know that I'm not very far from that again at any given point. It's so hard to balance out what I know (intellectually) to be healthy and attractive against the feeling of power and control I get from knowing I've just burned 400 calories in 30 minutes on the elliptical trainer because I pushed myself so hard, and to know that I cancelled out my lunch by doing that.

[Shirley Ujest]

[rambling]


Lately, I have started to feel sorry for thin women.

Yes, sorry.

I am not talking about the naturally thin woman who are probably in the less than 20% part of the population. And thin women who smoke most definately do not count.

I am talking about the Gym Rat and, more than likely, obsessed about the diet/food than...you know, real life.

To be so obsessed with a number. A freaking number is....obsessive. I am starting to beleive that the only truly skinny women in this world are all hired by Hollywood. Thus explaining the lack of acting skills, because who cares if they can act when their clothes look grrrreat on them.

Go to a waterpark one day with your kids. Yeah, you will feel like a beached whale in your outdated LLBean Swimsuit from the Modern Nun Collection. But just go and take a good look around at all the other women and their bodies. They are all different shapes and sizes. Some pudgy. Some fat. Some not-so-bad. Some kinda keeping themselves in shape. And a handful of Thar-she-blows. There will be one token skinny gal. Jennifer Anniston-Nichole Kidman kinda skinny. And she will wear a bikini that will make you cry in pure jealousy. She is the 1% factor.


I am 5'3. Small boned. According to a bunch of medical charts, I should weigh about 120. Honey, I haven't weighed that since I was 25. ( and I thought I was a porker then. HA!)

I am about 160. All of it is belly flab or thighs ( I use to be quite athletic and my thighs were very strong from biking, walking and weight training.) Some of it is boobage that I would love to lose a cup size, and I'm only a B. Gah, I don't know how big busty chickies do it. My cholosteral is a little high, but my blood pressure is perfect.


Going to the gym four to five times a week for a hour or so is a great form of stress relief, but it is a very self-obsessed, self-absorbed life. It is also fookin' boring after awhile. Gyms, you may notice, seem to have a specific age group that is their target audience. 18-mid 30's. with the usual token skinny perky instructors who all look like they've faked-n-baked too long and their faces are looking a little Jack Palance-ish or over-steroidish. If you know what I mean.

There will be an occaisional sighting of an older person. the reason for this is pretty simple: Once you have kids, and you get some free time, do you seriously want to spend it on the Treadmill of the Damned when you are already mentally whuupped from your day of work/kids/house/traffic/husband humping your leg for sex when all you really want to do is soak in a nice.hot.bubble.bath.reading.some.mentally.useless.trashy.romance.novel?


You can clearly see where I would pick in this matter.

Yeah, we all need to move more, eat better but most importantly, above all else, we need to get comfortable in our own skins.



The way I look at is this: If you have to work out five to six hours a week in a gym and paying dues, to keep yourself looking in OK shape that you will probably never be happy with anyways, you are wasting 5 to six hours of your week on futility. ( ok, it is good for the heart, etc.) But the point of it all is To Exercize to re-energize your spirit and body. Not compete with the Size 2 on Treadmill #3.

An exercize should be something that is done for pleasure and realtively cheap. Walking is free. Swimming at a community pool is very cheap. Biking riding is very cheap in the long run. We have been conditioned by constant bombardment from TV and print ads that W Must Join Something In order To Lose.. Remember kiddies, we are all losers individually. We just have to be more determined.:)

Humans have a huge lemming mentality. We also are being conditioned by The Man and The Institution to want to subscribe to Everything.

People go to Curves, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, The Gym because a) they want to change themselves which is good b) but eventually, it becomes a Guilt Trip because of the monthly dues. Oh, I have to go, it's 45 a month and if I don't use it..... that always has a catch.


I recently received a Come back to us offer for the gym I quit three years ago. For a very low fee of $15 a month. That is cheap....and I would use it for probably four months or so, then the kids are out of school and I would fall off the wagon again and find out it takes 4 months for the quitting to be in effect so I would be paying to quit while I am not actually going and BTW, the free child care there just sucks because they never tell a Bad Mommy that she can't park her croupy coughing precious baby in the daycare because she is...y'know sick...so my kids, who are not sick, get sick too and it costs me well over $200 in co-pays and RX's and gym fees that I am paying for that I can't attend because I have morals and will not park my sick kids in the kiddie corral there. But, I digress.



Working out with a group or a friend is very beneficial, but you don't have to pay to do it. Hell, you can go to a local county/state park and pay $30 or so for a year and walk all you want on groomed trails. You can even take your dog. ( provided you pick up poops.) And your dog will always want to go for a walk.


In contusion, if anyone is actually still reading this mess, I would like to say:

Fat people are harder to kidnap.

[Draelin]

In contusion, if anyone is actually still reading this mess, I would like to say:

Fat people are harder to kidnap.
I was reading along, giving my silent "yeah!"s and "what she said!"s, and I just wanted to let you know that you made me choke on my (full sugar and whole cream, so take that) coffee. :)

[mlerose]

Shirley, I agree with your entire post. And the sad thing is that I'm probably who you are addressing.

And I would still rather be smaller, so I'm going to stay a Gym Rat.

That, my friend, is incredibly sad.

[Caprese]

Hmm.
I've got that "Both Sides Now" thing goin' on.
My youth was spent chubby.
I had my bouts with 20-odd extra pounds in my late teens/early twenties.
I just really like food, and the only exercise I really like is swimming or walking.
I enjoy walking the dogs but I need a bit more than that.
In Colorado, you can't go to the community pool 9 months of the year.
I lost the weight by accident; I sort of 'found myself,' grew up, became a bit less introspective, a bit more active.
Right now I am 50 and the thinnest I've ever been--I even got my thyroid checked out. When menopause really kicks in, this will likely change. I'll probably get back those extra pounds I had 25 years ago. Ah well.
I go to the pool where I swim--yeah I pay to swim--and enjoy seeing all the different kinds of bodies there. Old, young, fat, thin. And yeah, there are the gym rats.
It is too bad when women are obsessed, especially when they pass on their obsessions to their daughters.
It's all so ephemeral, ya know?

[Cartooniverse]

Once you have kids, and you get some free time, do you seriously want to spend it on the Treadmill of the Damned when you are already mentally whuupped from your day of work/kids/house/traffic/husband humping your leg for sex when all you really want to do is soak in a nice.hot.bubble.bath.reading.some.mentally.useless.trashy.romance.novel?

Now and then, Shirley, you write something so painfully honest/funny at the same time that my jaw drops and I envy your husband, your neighbors, your cerebral cortex. Lawdy. That was brilliant. *note to self: never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever hump spouse's leg again. Ever. Not even for a moment. Never. *

:D

I'm a big boy. I waver from overweight to seriously huge. The charts say I kiss morbidly obese now and then, too. I don't give a shit what people think when they look at me, but I feel as though I'm drowning when I get too big. So, I see-saw. I use food the way other posters here use it. For e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g-. Tough nut to crack. For the record, skinny women unnerve me, and really big gals give me the warm tinglies. YMMV. ;)

Cartooniverse

[Guinastasia]

Losing weight is a greater accomplishment than pretty much anything, provided we are talking about non-surgical weight loss. I have no problem with people who have WLS; I'd do it in a heartbeat if God would let me (believe you me, I've begged). But I just can't see them as having "accomplished" anything. You get the surgery, you HAVE to lose weight, you have no choice. It is weight loss at gunpoint. A far, far cry from someone who did it the old fashioned way.


Abbie, no offense, but what do you mean "God" would let you have surgery? :confused:

Me, I could stand to lose about ten to fifteen pounds. My problem though is I'm flabby. I need to get toned up and in shape, but I just HATE exercising, at least the working out kind.

[threemae]

Wow, I had no idea that women thought about their weight so much.

Why?

[Athena]

Wow, I had no idea that women thought about their weight so much.

Why?

Me neither.

Between this thread and tonight's Oprah about women obsessed with plastic surgery, I feel like the most balanced, beautiful woman on earth. Off to drink beer and eat doughnuts!

[Mint Julep]

This is ironic.

I recently looked at some High School pics with friends and I was like, Wow...I had a great body. But at that time I remember thinking what a cow I was.

I think will summarize my life.

I am quite thin now...I watch what I eat and workout like crazy and everyone tells me how great I look...( I gained about 15lbs after I got my heart ripped out in 2001 and I finally got off my lazy ass in 2003 and lost it)

I dont think it is possible to FATHOM how much weight can control a woman's life!

It shames me to think about it...How vain and shallow am I?

[Abbie Carmichael]

Abbie, no offense, but what do you mean "God" would let you have surgery? :confused:

Well, when considering major medical stuff like that I like to seek God's will before I go through with anything.

I don't want to go under the knife for something like that without a clear and resounding "yes," ya know?


Wow, I had no idea that women thought about their weight so much.

Why?

Because that's what we're judged by.

[Kaitlyn]

I don't conisder the hours I spend at the gym or running the training circuit at the park when the weather is nice wasted or obsessive. I get something I want out of it, a healthy heart, nice muscle tone, a trim figure, and the trade-off is something I consider well worth the cost, both in time and in money.

I understand what Shirley is saying, and that it may indeed be a message many women need to hear, and I'm actually in that 20% that have always been realtively thin, so I realize that my experience may not be representative.

Accepting yourself for who you are doesn't mean that you can't try to make yourself better, by whatever means that might be.

[Q.N. Jones]

I make great money and I have an advanced degree, fitting into a size 6 dress was a greater accomplishment' and her bemoaning how bad it felt tolhave her priorities that way and for her self worth to be so tied to her weight.

If she's that shallow, she has no one to blame but herself.

I have been 60 pounds overweight. I dieted until I lost it. Then I became severely depressed and gained it back. So I have been there.

I considered losing the weight to be an accomplishment because it made me healthier, and I liked looking better. However, when I compared it to my other successes--a Harvard law degree, close friendships maintained against the odds, surviving serious mental illness--the weight loss was a blip on the radar screen.

[Cat Whisperer]

Wow, I had no idea that women thought about their weight so much.

Why?
Women think about weight and food about as much as men think about sex. Unfortunately.

I just went through a serious bout of anxiety-disorder flare-up, complete with bad meds making me really, really sick, and I feel like someone who had a brush with death. I've lost weight three times in my adult life - I'm still 40 or so pounds overweight - big deal. My biggest accomplishment, by far, is overcoming this anxiety disorder. I can think clearly again, and I've got my confidence back. Life is far too precious to waste it agonizing over every bite you put in your mouth, and how you look in a bathing suit.

And everything Shirley and Draelin said.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

Because that's what we're judged by.
Truer words been never spoke.

The least I've ever weighed at my current height is 126 pounds. Let's just say I'm a lot (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=300703) more than that now. I want that 126 body back so badly, it is a major part of my internal dialog, every minute of the day. Yet, I love food and treasure my reputation as an excellent cook, so it’s really hard for me to change my habits. Loosing weight is harder than anything I’ve ever done. Coping with sick parents, buying a house, getting advanced educational degrees and the minor traumas of my dull-but-happy life don’t compare to the effort it takes me to lose weight.

[monstro]

I don't understand why people don't *get* why others are so weight-conscious. It's clear to me why.

There's a coworker in the lab that no one really likes (she works my nerves too, but I wouldn't go as far as saying I don't like her). There are many nicknames that could be used to describe her, but what's the namethe lab has concocted? Lumberjack. And it's not because she wears flannel and swings an ax well. It's because she's 5'5"-5'6" and probably weighs about 150 or 160 lbs. Some of it's fat, but she's also muscular. And yet she's "fat" to them. I've come to her defense, but it's just blown off. The name has stuck.

Now, they might have a nickhame for me that's awful too. They may think my hair is funny, or maybe make reference to my plain face. But one name that I don't have to worry about is "fat" right now. And you know what? There are only a few other words out there (two, namely) that I would consider worse than that, so I'm grateful.

Why??

I'll tell you why. My parents are fat people. Always have been (in their adult life), always will be. And yet what's the first remark they always have when they reconnect with certain long lost friends or relatives? "Looks like so-and-so has gained a few el-bees, haven't they? *snirk*". Argh, it's disgusting!

At this point in my life--even though I'm financially independent and live hundreds of miles away from them--my parents are still my primary source of affirmation. They were proud when I graduated with college with honors. They rejoiced when I got a Ph.D. But they will talk about me LIKE A DOG if I show up on Thanksgiving weighing an extra 20 or 30 pounds. My mother will goad me into exercising, despite the fact that she can't walk up a flight of stairs without getting winded. I would feel like a failure, big time. I can blame them, but I also know that the pressure is also self-inflicted.

I have a twin sister. As anyone with twin children knows (especially if they are identical or just look like it), it is close to impossible to not compare the two. We were no exception. I was always the slower, quieter, awkward, uglier* one. I admit that I've carried all those years of comparison on my back even today. She got her doctorate before me. She has a boyfriend--I've never been kissed. She makes twice as much money than I do and drives a better car.

And she's skinner than me.

Guess which of the comparisons makes me feel the worse during the holidays, when we're together? I'm not overweight at all, but the simple fact that my twin is a good 5-8 pounds lighter than me itches, for lack of a better word. I used to dress and undress in her presence. Not any more. I don't even like I stepping out of the shower wrapped in a towel, for I know her back and shoulders aren't as "beefy" as mine. Nor does her tummy pop out as far. I won't feel as "good" as she is until either I lose weight or she gains it. It doesn't help that I know that's a sucky, self-centered, immature way of looking at things. I feel this way because I've grown up comparing myself to what everyone said was my "mirror". As much as I rebel against this myth, I've also internalized it.

So yes, weight loss or being "thin" is a huge accomplishment for lots of people.




*please no rejoiners about how this is impossible in twins. It was possible for us!

[butter pie]

:confused:

There's a double-data rate diet for geeks?

DDR... the game. Where you stomp around on the dance pad to hit arrows as they scroll across the screen. To music. It's a decent cardio workout, especially when you start getting to the advanced levels. One of the reasons I have trouble exercising is because I find it incredibly boring and inconvenient, but my bf brought over his ps2 and got me the game + pads for Christmas, and it's cheaper and more fun than a gym. It's a lot like trying to play Tetris with your feet.

[lel]

Wow, I had no idea that women thought about their weight so much.

Why?

Because if I lose weight, I can find a mate. Two salaries are better than one. I can also find a better job, because after all, what one is judged on is their weight, first of all.

So really, it's of economic benefit to me to lose weight.

[cuauhtemoc]

Is it possible - just possible, now - that women overestimate how much men care about their weight? In my observation, it seems like women are the ones who care most about weight, and not just their own! Most of the women I know are obsessed with other women's bodies. "Damn, I wish I was as thin as her!" or "Wow, I'm glad I'm not as fat as her!" "My God, that celebrity lost so much weight!" "Ooh, some other celebrity sure gained a lot of weight!"

And frankly, as a man I'm tired of being blamed for this. I'm not responsible for anybody's messed-up body image. I don't know how much you weigh, and I don't care how much you weigh. The only way I'll give any thought at all to how much you weigh is if some woman feels the need to discuss it with me.

[Wesley Clark]

Is it possible - just possible, now - that women overestimate how much men care about their weight? In my observation, it seems like women are the ones who care most about weight, and not just their own! Most of the women I know are obsessed with other women's bodies. "Damn, I wish I was as thin as her!" or "Wow, I'm glad I'm not as fat as her!" "My God, that celebrity lost so much weight!" "Ooh, some other celebrity sure gained a lot of weight!"

And frankly, as a man I'm tired of being blamed for this. I'm not responsible for anybody's messed-up body image. I don't know how much you weigh, and I don't care how much you weigh. The only way I'll give any thought at all to how much you weigh is if some woman feels the need to discuss it with me.

That is 100% true. I find women of various sizes attractive and I bet alot of men do too. I once read a study that said the types of women that women thought men preferred were 20lbs thinner than the types that men said they preferred.

Finding info saying that men dont care as much as women think they do wasn't hard though.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/index.php/t-199646.html

In a groundbreaking new study, this is what Cosmopolitan magazine published in the August 2004 issue:

What's your favorite female body type?
61.6% Curvy with an average rack
20.4% Svelte with big breasts
11.6% Model-thin and small-chested
4.7% Other
1.7% Big and bodacious

Big and bodacious only got 1.7%, but there is probably 40-50lbs difference between model thin and curvy.

[delphica]

In the past two years, I think I've lost a substantial bit of weight, and I do rank it as one of my greatest accomplishments. I don't feel shallow about that either, I feel like I worked hard and got good results. And I'm not even thin now, I'll never be thin, I'm just thinner than I was before. For me at least, a lot of the sense of accomplishment comes from the fact that it's a very personal thing -- it's my BODY, for heaven's sake, it's about the most personal thing I've got going. I also think I'm fairly successful in my career, but that's not quite as personal. I recognize that some of it was hard work, but some of it was luck -- having good bosses who were mentors, people who gave me opportunities, that sort of thing. So I'm thankful for all of that, but more of it was external.

I also thought this was interesting, and wanted to respond on this topic:

To other people who struggle with their weight: do you also feel out-of-control when it comes to food? I've only heard this idea once or twice before- most people I've talked to don't (or won't admit to) feeling that way.

I never would have thought that when I was heavier -- it wasn't denial, I really didn't think I had out of control food issues. Someone who was out of control, I would have figured, would have wanted to stop at one cookie, but ended up eating ten. I, on the other hand, wanted to eat ten cookies in the first place. It wasn't until I lost weight that I slowly realized that I had more food/control issues than I thought. One of the weird things I've noticed is that being thinner (one of these days I'm going to start a thread about weird, unexpected things you notice when you lose weight), people are more apt to ask if I want another cookie ... I guess before they felt like they had to save the fat girl from herself and not offer. And it's hard not to have another cookie, so hard that I seldom have the first cookie now. It's a lot easier to say "no thanks" to the first cookie than the second cookie, or the third ...

[Q.N. Jones]

Is it possible - just possible, now - that women overestimate how much men care about their weight?

In my experience, a resounding YES.

I have met some guys who really buy into the whole "anything over a size 4 is fat" modern media thing. But the vast majority of guys I've met have demonstrated that they care only about a few basic things:

1. Boobs.
2. Pretty face.
3. Pleasing "hourglass" body shape.

They didn't get especially nitpicky about any of these things.

Also, they wanted girls with good personalities who were good in bed. These things were just as important as looks.

I don't think much about my weight or looks. I don't spend much time comparing myself to other women. I'm happy how I am. I don't care that some people will judge me based largely on my physique because I try not to spend time with that kind of person. It has certainly never affected my academic or professional life.

[Shirley Ujest]

Because if I lose weight, I can find a mate. Two salaries are better than one. I can also find a better job, because after all, what one is judged on is their weight, first of all.

So really, it's of economic benefit to me to lose weight.


Then you buy a house you can't afford, overextend yourself on the mortgage, Pottery Barn Motif and work 90 a week to get the Restoration Hardware dining room set and are too tired at the end of the day to go on the Treadmill of the Damned.....for about the next 30 years. And you both get fat because who in the fook wants to prepare nutriotious meals that take twenty seven hours to make each dish with exotic ingredients when you can eat ramen noodles straight out of the pyrex in under 5 minutes. And that's before the kids come along.


YMMV.


But at least you have nice furniture. (that will be out of style before it is officially paid off.) : And puked on by one child and have a major diaper blow out by another. Just sayin'....








Full Scale Brainfart Alert. Scramble the Fighter Jets. Turn on the Weather Channel!

Look, there is something I've noticed out there, gals. It is brutal, so pay attention:

There is a vast conspiracy to make women feel fat.

Yeah, I know. Yer shittin' me, Shirley, really?

I, Shirley, will not shit you in this.


I am, according to the Clothing Sizing Industry Bizzaro Charts that exist out there, a 1x in shirts and a 14-16 in pants. ( Baby fat. No matter if I drop that pesky 20, that extra skin is still there. )

Let's see if I can make this coherent:

The most fooked up thing that I've encountered since I've had kids is the fact that the shirts that I have bought myself pre-pregnancy ( size 10 for pants and an L for shirts) still fit me. Ok, the pants don't, but the shirts do. My underpants that I've had since the mid 90's (yeah, the 90's.) still fit and they are a size 5 or 6. The newer stuff, post baby, are 7's. Yes, I just put my undie size out there for all my 45k friends across the globe. I said it was brutal. And for guys who are sitting there scratching your asses over this one, the bigger the undie size on a chix is the equivalent to a smaller penis size on a you.

Now, the shirts that I have bought since having two kids are a 1x. I have always had big shoulders for a gal, but my boobage and fleshy parts have not grown THAT much since 1998. I still fit into the bra's I bought pre-baby (even in cup, I just overfloweth and not in in a dithering Victoria Secret Model kinda way.) I am not that much in denial either. Stellar's Sea Cow, I am not.


The industry out there is downsizing sizes for the teenage market because they have the disposable income for the trendy things and the staples of life wardrobe like LL Bean, which are made to fit women, are the standard soccer mom wardrobe as they know their market and do not maliciously downsize to cater to the emiciated teen crowd.

In Meijer ( a mega store in the mid west) they have a Junior's section (3/4/5/7/9/11) the odd numbered ones.) and now a junior plus section. Above 13. I can actually wear, if I had dignity, which I still do, some junior pants, only I look like I am desperately trying to cling to my ute, which I am most assuredly am not. I have left my ute behind and happily so.

There are also the regular women's ( plus) sizes and ladies sizes, but every woman I see in shopping for clothes is in the plus section. And they have regular female bodies that have gone too seed. It makes me wonder two things simutaneously: If women have the spending power that controls the industry how can this happen? and two, why hasn't anyone done anything about it?


The reason this is happening learly for going after the teen driven blank-eyed rampant consumerism and the desperate desire to be a part of the herd and to fit in. If you are skinny, well dressed and whatever, you will a) be accepted b) find love c) have a happily ever after.

This will lead me into another tirade at a future date of why the Wedding Industry brainwashes the twenty something female crowd into getting married before 30 or you are a spinster/doomed/a horrible horrible unworthly person. Cause, like, you are not completely sure of yourself yet and well....everyone is doing it.

But I am putting the cart before the jackass.

Anyways, this leads me to my favorite subject: Me. ....No, wait...that isn't applicable in this paragraph. imagine that. Conspiracy theories! the darker side of my brain senses that somehow the Diet Industry is in cahoots.

Look, you can't fight genetics but you don't have to give in and take what Mother Nature and eugenics shat upon you either. It's a vicious world, try to find some peace and serenity and remember this:


Why do we worry about a fookin' number so much? Whether it is a 2 or a 12; a 100 or a 122? Who determines that our underpants sizing is more critical to our self esteem than our IQ.? We do. That's who.

Who we are; what we stand for; what we have been through and what we have have learned are what matters.....blah blah blah...feel good...Oprah Kharma shit....Ommmmmm....You deserve the best..deep cleansing breaths....take care of you...yadda yadda yadda....

Comprende?

Today's Mantra: There is no comfort like a donut.

:D

[fighting ignorant]

Attention whore side of me speaking:
A well placed comma could *really* disambiguate that one... :D

[Wesley Clark]

Then you buy a house you can't afford, overextend yourself on the mortgage, Pottery Barn Motif and work 90 a week to get the Restoration Hardware dining room set and are too tired at the end of the day to go on the Treadmill of the Damned.....for about the next 30 years. And you both get fat because who in the fook wants to prepare nutriotious meals that take twenty seven hours to make each dish with exotic ingredients when you can eat ramen noodles straight out of the pyrex in under 5 minutes. And that's before the kids come along.


YMMV.


But at least you have nice furniture. (that will be out of style before it is officially paid off.) :








Full Scale Brainfart Alert. Scramble the Fighter Jets. Turn on the Weather Channel!

Look, there is something I've noticed out there, gals. It is brutal, so pay attention:

There is a vast conspiracy to make women feel fat.

Yeah, I know. Yer shittin' me, Shirley, really?

I, Shirley, will not shit you in this.


I am, according to the Clothing Sizing Industry Bizzaro Charts that exist out there, a 1x in shirts and a 14-16 in pants. ( Baby fat. No matter if I drop that pesky 20, that extra skin is still there. )

Let's see if I can make this coherent:

The most fooked up thing that I've encountered since I've had kids is the fact that the shirts that I have bought myself pre-pregnancy ( size 10 for pants and an L for shirts) still fit me. Ok, the pants don't, but the shirts do. My underpants that I've had since the mid 90's (yeah, the 90's.) still fit and they are a size 5 or 6. The newer stuff, post baby, are 7's. Yes, I just put my undie size out there for all my 45k friends across the globe. I said it was brutal. And for guys who are sitting there scratching your asses over this one, the bigger the undie size on a chix is the equivalent to a smaller penis size on a you.

Now, the shirts that I have bought since having two kids are a 1x. I have always had big shoulders for a gal, but my boobage and fleshy parts have not grown THAT much since 1998. I still fit into the bra's I bought pre-baby (even in cup, I just overfloweth and not in in a dithering Victoria Secret Model kinda way.) I am not that much in denial either. Stellar's Sea Cow, I am not.


The industry out there is downsizing sizes for the teenage market because they have the disposable income for the trendy things and the staples of life wardrobe like LL Bean, which are made to fit women, are the standard soccer mom wardrobe as they know their market and do not maliciously downsize to cater to the emiciated teen crowd.

In Meijer ( a mega store in the mid west) they have a Junior's section (3/4/5/7/9/11) the odd numbered ones.) and now a junior plus section. Above 13. I can actually wear, if I had dignity, which I still do, some junior pants, only I look like I am desperately trying to cling to my ute, which I am most assuredly am not. I have left my ute behind and happily so.

There are also the regular women's ( plus) sizes and ladies sizes, but every woman I see in shopping for clothes is in the plus section. And they have regular female bodies that have gone too seed. It makes me wonder two things simutaneously: If women have the spending power that controls the industry how can this happen? and two, why hasn't anyone done anything about it?


The reason this is happening learly for going after the teen driven blank-eyed rampant consumerism and the desperate desire to be a part of the herd and to fit in. If you are skinny, well dressed and whatever, you will a) be accepted b) find love c) have a happily ever after.

This will lead me into another tirade at a future date of why the Wedding Industry brainwashes the twenty something female crowd into getting married before 30 or you are a spinster/doomed/a horrible horrible unworthly person. Cause, like, you are not completely sure of yourself yet and well....everyone is doing it.

But I am putting the cart before the jackass.

Anyways, this leads me to my favorite subject: Me. ....No, wait...that isn't applicable in this paragraph. imagine that. Conspiracy theories! the darker side of my brain senses that somehow the Diet Industry is in cahoots.

Look, you can't fight genetics but you don't have to give in and take what Mother Nature and eugenics shat upon you either. It's a vicious world, try to find some peace and serenity and remember this:

Why do we worry about a fookin' number so much? Whether it is a 2 or a 12; a 100 or a 122? Who determines that our underpants sizing is more critical to our self esteem than our IQ.? We do. That's who.


:D

(Al Bundy Voice). And do you know who says stuff like that? Fat girls

Please dont kill me

[Shirley Ujest]

(Al Bundy Voice). And do you know who says stuff like that? Fat girls

Please dont kill me


You know who quotes Al Bundy?


Virgins.


:p

[Wesley Clark]

You know who quotes Al Bundy?

Virgins.

:p

Sure i've only slept with 0 women, but over the next 10 years i'll have slept with twice as many.

[Cat Whisperer]

You know who quotes Al Bundy?


Virgins.


:p
Shirley, you're my hero.

[UntouchedTakeaway]

In Paul Campos's book the obesity myth (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592400663/104-1007669-7659956?v=glance) he mentions a leading feminist (I can't remember her name) who also had a doctorate and was a famous pundit. This feminist who was chubby and lost weight said to him something along the lines of 'even though I accomplished alot in a male dominated field, I make great money and I have an advanced degree, fitting into a size 6 dress was a greater accomplishment' and her bemoaning how bad it felt tolhave her priorities that way and for her self worth to be so tied to her weight.

So for those of you women who are overweight, would you consider losing weight to be a major accomplishment, even moreso than getting advanced college degrees, or being great parents, or being good people or being in the top 10% of wage earners?

I know its not likely people are going to come out and say 'I felt like losing weight was a better accomplishment than being a good parent' even if its true but its worth a shot to ask it anyway.


I've been thinking a lot about this lately. I had gastric bypass surgery in November, 2004. Before that, I was a proportionate, but obviously large woman. I was always extremely well-dressed, always been well-thought of on my job, and didn't lack for self esteem. I did, however, have some severe health issues which prompted me to have the surgery. For the record, I was 5'11" and 334.

I'm now 5'11" and 270. I am proud that this surgery has given me the control I desperately needed, as well as totally alleviated my health issues (the most frightening one was sleep apnea). I can now go to the gym and exercise without pain, and I feel amazing.

The one thing that causes me discomfort is the actual weight loss itself. The perceived "sins" of fat people are immediately evident, as is the weight loss. Instead of asking me how I feel now, people invariably tell me how great I look, or that they can't get over the physical change. I understand that the physical change is the most apparent end result of the surgery (and my working it like a bastard for all it's worth, too), but it still makes me feel squonky when people mention it. There was *nothing* wrong with my appearance before hand. My surgeon estimates I'll lose another approximate 80 pounds - I don't know if I can continue to accept the comments with a sincere, yet strained "Thank you. I feel wonderful". I know people don't mean any harm by it, and I guess it proves the supposition of the OP in that a woman losing weight is something akin to the Red Sox winning the World Series.

I'm sorry if this is rambling and not coming to any particular point, but it's something that's been on my mind lately. Thanks for bearing with me.

VCNJ~

[Shirley Ujest]

YAY Veuve!

What you realized is that your weight and situation were not healthy for now or long term and you did something about it.


Tower of Babble

I am not starting some kind of revolution for women to toss their sports bra's into the fire and sit on the couch eating doritos and ice cream while living vicariously through Reality TV, and I hope that isn't what my ramblings have been getting across. Dear Og, ladies, please keep your boobies contained and turn off the fookin' TV and all its 'Your House is a disaster. Your body is a disaster. Your relationship is for shite and we won't even talk about your kids.' shows. That stuff is a subconscious trainwreck for everyone.

It's about taking care of yourself without obsessing over a number. It is about taking care of yourself, being in control of your density (and destiny, too) and making smart choices not just for long term stuff ( college, marriage,investments) but short term stuff ( If I eat this entire bag of chocolate chips .... I could eat something healthy...but ooooooh, Ben and Jerry's!) Y'folla?

The people who state that they have acheived a PhD but their proudest accomplishment to date is dropping 50 pounds tells me that the relationship this person has with food is harder for her to deal with than the tough courses involved. If you are not frightened for this woman and for the future of all younger girls, then I will be.


We all need our comfort food and we all have Really Bad Moments. The fact that more of us are not free-basing drug users is a testament of our own strength and the inner fear of Mom Finding Out.

Your bad moments and stresses I could probably waltz through in a ballgown.

My bad moments, you could probably stand back and go...What in the hell is she talking about?..This is not that hard at all...why does she need to do her default of chocolate over something like this? though , I seriously doubt it. Not patting myself on my back, you are a pussy. yes, you. Actually, we all are. About something. And that is ok. We cannot be like Wonder Woman all the time.

Most of our problems PAY ATTENTION PEOPLES are from the neck up and self induced.

Yeah, I said it.

Your problems ( and mine) are mostly self induced and we (me, you/all of us we are all fooked in the head.) have been conditioned by the Law Offices of Sue Everyone, to blame someone/something else for our own lack of control. We want to blame someone and make them pay for our own fook ups.

In the end. We pay. For not owning up to our weaknesses and trying to work through them and by continously burying our heads in the sands and up our collective asses, time and time again. There is a difference between Picking Your Battles and Not Actually Engaging Battle. But, you are a pussy, so you know this already.


If you think about it long enough, from the start, women have been subconsciously trained to be submissive, pretty, thin and a helpmate to Big Strong Manly Man. And, in a time when women had no legal rights; could not pick whom they could marry, they were not educated and had no say in anything, do you think our foremothers we bitching about the last twenty pounds they wanted to drop after birthin' their 12th child? No. they were trying to survive war, disease, crop failure, bad dental, no education and no birth control. Men saved them from Bad Things and Told them What To Do. I'm not dissin' men here. Just stating the facts.

We have the highest form of freedoms known to woman-kind on our planet. We have legal rights. We have religious rights. We can go to school and get edumakated. We can own our own property and mow the freakin' lawn. We.have.birth.control. We have access to dental and health care. We have washing machines and dryers,refrigerators, ovens and microwaves to make homecare so much easier. We can eat out alone in a restaurant without fear of whispers, innuendos and our reputations being sullied. We can decide if we want to marry or, if it is a Bad Situation, leave the marriage.

And yet we cannot get over how FAT we perceive ourselves too be.


The sound you hear is me banging my head against a sharp rusty nail on the wall.

[AbbySthrnAccent]

The one thing that causes me discomfort is the actual weight loss itself. The perceived "sins" of fat people are immediately evident, as is the weight loss. Instead of asking me how I feel now, people invariably tell me how great I look, or that they can't get over the physical change. I understand that the physical change is the most apparent end result of the surgery (and my working it like a bastard for all it's worth, too), but it still makes me feel squonky when people mention it. There was *nothing* wrong with my appearance before hand. My surgeon estimates I'll lose another approximate 80 pounds - I don't know if I can continue to accept the comments with a sincere, yet strained "Thank you. I feel wonderful". I know people don't mean any harm by it, and I guess it proves the supposition of the OP in that a woman losing weight is something akin to the Red Sox winning the World Series.


I get what you mean here and can empathize with your feelings. A couple of years ago in the spring time I became quite ill and had to have some surgery. I lost about 60 lbs fast. I was so ill and out of circulation for about a month and yet all people could say as I returning slowly to the world of the living was, "Wow, you look great. What are you doing?" My reply that I had been quite ill did not slow them down. "We'll great good for you. Keep it up, because you look marvelous." All people could see and talk about was the weight loss. Not that I wanted to discuss the illness, I didn't, in fact I felt quite private about it. But I could have done without every single damn one of the people who commented on the weight loss during that time and that is just about everyone in my life.

I could lose a good deal more weight before anyone would consider me thin, and yet when I do lose a few pounds, I start to obsess and worry about what people will say to me. I become speechless with embarrassment, hurt, and fury. I just want to disappear. or vomit. or hit. or wish oozing zits all over their bodies when anyone comments on my gain or loss of weight. I am totally in the, commenting on weight loss is NOT being supportive camp.

[overlyverbose]

I thought I'd chime in here briefly, too. I could stand to lose about 15-20 pounds. I fit into about a size 12, but I would love to fit into something smaller. And yes, weight loss is important to me. Like many have mentioned, it's a big accomplishment, and you can see it, too!

I'd like to consider myself smart. I've got a masters degree and linguistics and can speak and read in six languages. But I would kill to lose those fucking 20 pounds. I rarely think about my graduate degree with pride, mostly it's the weight that occupies my thoughts.

And you know what's really sick? A few years ago, I weighed a lot less than I do now (about 40 pounds - I was pretty underweight). I went to a Houlihans and got terrible food poisoning. Not just the shits, the kind of food poisoning that had me vomiting for four days - I couldn't even drink water without it coming up again - and having seizures from the fever. I didn't have insurance, so my friends decided to see if it would just run its course (I now think they were idiots for doing this - I could have died, but they thought they were doing me a favor). I was unconscious or having seizures during the entire time, so I was almost completely insensible those four days and don't remember most of it. What I do remember is that I lost 20 pounds during those four days and, looking back, probably appeared absolutely emaciated. I'm 5'9, and had to go out and get pants that were a size 4 because the ones I owned were simply too large and kept falling off my bony, jutting out hips. Do you know what? I was so proud. I can't even describe how proud I was to have lost all that weight, even though I had gone through hell for four days and was still out of it for the rest of the week. I'd lay there at night and cup my hands over my hip bones that poked against my skin and run my fingers over prominent ribs and feel like I had finally gotten somewhere. And that feeling of pride was completely reinforced by everyone I met. "Overly, have you lost weight???" "Why yes, I have. Unfortunately I had food poisoning." "Well that's one way to do it, but you look great." I had already been underweight to start with, then lost 20 pounds and got complimented for it. Of course I want to be that thin again. But it's not gonna happen unless I starve myself. And I'm trying to avoid that mentality.

My husband certainly helps. Even with the extra weight he tells me that I'm the most beautiful woman in the world. Then again, my mom tells me I'm fat. I try to listen to my husband more than my mom, but it's hard when my mom is repeating something she's told me even when I had an eating disorder in high school, especially since everything I see and every woman I talk to wants to lose weight no matter how thin she is.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

Is it possible - just possible, now - that women overestimate how much men care about their weight?
Probably. But what men think is different from their behavior. Being fat is like having a public cloak of invisibility. I only have my own anecdotes on this, but in my experience if there' s a fat girl and a thin girl at a party; the thin girl will get asked to dance and the fat girl will be leaning against the wall.

[anu-la1979]

You know what makes me feel like crap? When my parents tell me how beautiful I am NOW...the dividing line between a 4 and a 6 seems pretty small to me but I have lost about 80% of my belly pudge and my boobs are now smaller too and I just look more "petite" as opposed to voluptuous but every single time my father sees me it's "you look beautiful NOW" or "you look perfect NOW" and I know he's just saying it to keep on encouraging me to me it just says "You looked fucking hideous before," and that just makes me want to cry because I just get more and more obsessed with it and the old self that looked kind of pretty and never had trouble getting guys (well, at least white guys) seems like a big, fat obese shithead who must never reappear again.

[SusanStoHelit]

Probably. But what men think is different from their behavior. Being fat is like having a public cloak of invisibility. I only have my own anecdotes on this, but in my experience if there' s a fat girl and a thin girl at a party; the thin girl will get asked to dance and the fat girl will be leaning against the wall.

That is true if we are talking 100+ lbs-overweight-fat. However, in my experience (BMI 17, pretty face but no boobs) the thin girl will get passed over in favor of the curvy girl with the 20-22 BMI and a nice rack who thinks that she is 20-40lbs overweight. And when she gets back from dancing (with the guy I wanted), she'll tell me how jealous she is of my body :rolleyes: .

I actually put on about 13 lbs one summer when I worked at a coffee shop (free milkshakes- mmmm!). I got less female attention (oh you're so skinny! I hate you!) but waaay more male attention. My bf at the time loved the change, and was sorry when I lost the weight again.

[Cat Whisperer]

Probably. But what men think is different from their behavior. Being fat is like having a public cloak of invisibility. I only have my own anecdotes on this, but in my experience if there' s a fat girl and a thin girl at a party; the thin girl will get asked to dance and the fat girl will be leaning against the wall.
When I was dating from the phone personals, I met this one guy; he seemed okay, seemed to like me okay, but the next day, while I was listening to profiles again, I noticed that he had changed his to specify (basically) NO FAT CHICKS. That stung a little, let me tell you. Fortunately, I decided that he was an asshole, and it was *his* problem, not mine.

Then I met my husband, and he loves me exactly the way I am. He thinks he's lucky to have me, and couldn't care less about 40 extra pounds.

Bottom line - there will always be assholes trying to tear you down, no matter what you weigh or what you look like. Ignore them. Listen to the voice in your head that says that you look good, that you're a good, decent person, and you deserve to be happy and comfortable in your own skin.

[kushiel]

I'm about 60-70 pounds overweight. I've never thought much of it - I'm 18 and haven't really gotten the 'must have boyfriend' thing going yet. However, when I ordered my grad dress, it came back far too small. I basically had to lose 15 pounds in 3-4 months. I did it just from changing my eating habits. But after grad I went on two new drugs to help my anxiety and depression, and my weight skyrocketed by 30 pounds. I'm still on them, but my parents continued bitching about my weight means I might stop them soon. I've gotten back into the groove of bad eating habits, but not to the degree to gain 30 pounds.

Seriously, if I could, I'd go get my stomach stapled or some other sort of surgery. But I don't think I'm overweight enough to warrant it. But I just can't see losing 60 pounds.

But I would find getting a degree much more of an accomplishment. But judging from most people's responses, I may not think this way in a few years.

I think it is sad that we focus so much on weight though.

[Velma]

This is something I think about all the time. I know in my head that my weight is not that important, but logic does not overcome my desire to be thin. It is an issue of control for me, when I feel out of control, I eat. I will eat past the point of fullness, and I know it is only the grace of a decent metabolism and being moderately active that I am not obese. As it is now I am on the cusp of crossing that line into a BMI that is 'overweight.' I spend most of my life now teetering on that line. I make little boundaries that I am not allowed to cross, and that is one of them. Another is being able to shop in 'regular' stores, and staying out of plus sizes. It is a mental game for me, all about the number.

There was a time in college that I look back on now, and I thing about how proud I was of my body then, and how I could wear anything I wanted and not obsess over how I looked in it because I knew I looked good. When I really start to consider that time, I realize that I ate sporadically because I was broke, I ate junk, I smoked a pack a day. I was so unhealthy then. But I was thin, but even then I would have said I wanted to lose 10 pounds.

I quit smoking and I am very proud of that accomplishment. I sometimes think to myself that if I could do that, I should be able to control my weight no problem. I did gain about 10 pound after I quit, I know that to reach that weight again would take daily hard exercise, and careful eating. Right now I am at that weight that my body 'settles' in, you know the one where you can eat pretty much what you want but not too out of control. I eat vegetables, I get the whole grain bread, I don't keep chips in the house. But I don't count calories. And I get dessert when we go out.

My family has high cholesterol and I worry about that. I worry about the example I will set for my baby boy, and for the responsibility of buying and preparing food for him and my husband.

Last year when I was pregnant I felt a suprising relief at being 'allowed' to eat what I wanted and watch myself get fat. I was supposed to get bigger! And boy did I. I gained almost 50 pounds but really I didn't care, I loved my huge belly. I read all those books and articles about how women hated their pregnant bodies and watched every pound on the scale with dread but I liked my body honestly and purely for what I think was the first time since I was a very very little girl. And after I had the baby the weight came back off and I fell into my settled weight again, where I am now. And now I see the stretch marks and how the pregnancy has changed my body shape and I know I will never have my ideal body back, ever. Sometimes I am ok with that.

If anyone is still reading this I have one little tidbit to share that just happened this morning that is typical of my thinking. I work in a male-dominated office and someone came in with donuts for everyone. When I heard they were there, I waited until most of the men have had thier pick and left before I will go in there to get mine. I still feel like it is fine for them to eat a donut or even 2 or 3 but I feel a little shame when I get one, and I feel like people are judging me if I take one, like 'she doesn't need that.' Sometimes I find myself hiding when I eat something 'bad' like that, even though I know it's ok to have one once in a while. I still feel a little ashamed for eating it.

I will sometimes chastize my husband for eating junk when I am really chastizing myself. If I was happy with my own eating habits I don't think I would criticize his.

[Caprese]

In terms of the 'because that's what we're judged by' stance, as well as the 'what kind of female body men want' thing: I always had the impression that women, to paraphrase Van Morrison, often "dress up for each other."
But maybe that's a sort of sideline and it really is all about attracting the opposite sex in particular, and looking good for society in general.

What's really sad to me is that it is seemingly not so much about being thin as it is being skeletal.

[malkavia]

Wow. I felt alot beter about myself before I found this thread. :/

I've always been at least marginally overweight.. and since the birth of my son 10 yrs ago, I've been anywhere from downright fat to HOLY MANATEE, BATMAN!

I'm now on the upper end of downright fat, but a good 30 lbs away from my beached whale phase. I would love to tell you that I really don't obsess about what I eat and am generally happy with myself, but we both know that's bullshit.

I would estimate that on any given day, I'm spending at least 2-3 hours total feeling fat, pulling at my shirt, lamenting the bagel that I ate with my cereal, waiting for lunch, wondering why I'm hungry, analyzing whether or not I'm actually hungry, etc.

That said, I seem to have a completely different response to external pressures than I've read in this thread. If my parents called me fat (which they dont, since they both struggle with their weight), I would probably binge on everything in sight for the next few days.

If a guy stopped talking to me because I'm fat, I would say "Eff him, pass the cookie dough."

Of course, I'm also one of those people who insists on having a cigarette everytime I'm bombarded with a sanctimonious Truth ad, so maybe this is purely a "me" problem.

I just can't imagine trying to change because someone else doesn't like me the way I happen to be.

Granted, I obsess over my weight because I never feel comfortable, I always wonder if my dear SO (who has always maintained that I am beautiful) sometimes inwardly cringes when I disrobe to reveal my fat belly and flabby arms. I also feel ridiculous for worrying about something like this. Why the hell would he be with me if he didn't dig me? I'm not rich, I'm not exceptionally brilliant, I sure as hell don't have a trust fund or any idea how I'd make my next car payment if I lost my job tomorrow.

Part of me wants to drop every single pound and strut before anyone who felt I wasn't appropriately attractive as a fat chick.

Part of me wants to eat everything and flip the finger to anyone who doesn't like it.

Part of me wonders why my weight only brings up vanity and self-esteem issues as opposed to worrying about my health and when/if my knees are going to be replaced in 20 years and whether or not the smoking/eating will kill me long before that.

I do know for a fact that I would like to kick everyone who says, "God, I'd never be fat. I don't understand why people don't just eat less and exercise more" square in the babymaker.

So how great of an accomplishment would losing weight be? Somewhere between a magnificent accomplishment that I've been fighting for since I was knee-high to a duck and a horrible failure because all of the people who judged me for being overweight have somehow "won".

Damned if you do and all that. Bleeh.

I'm gonna go have an orange or something. THANKS GUYS!

[threemae]

And frankly, as a man I'm tired of being blamed for this. I'm not responsible for anybody's messed-up body image. I don't know how much you weigh, and I don't care how much you weigh. The only way I'll give any thought at all to how much you weigh is if some woman feels the need to discuss it with me.

Okay, I guess this is sort of what I wanted to get at but didn't want to come out and say without asking a few questions first.

Frankly, as long as women aren't obese, men just don't care about how much women weigh. In fact, we seem to prefer larger than most women realize. The Trilateral Council isn't meeting to figure out how to engineer society so that fat-women feel ashamed, frankly it really seems to me to be mainly the work of women themselves.

It's been really refreshing to hear from some women that came from all parts of the weight-spectrum that basically said, "I don't care WTF people think of my body. It's mine and I'll change it if I want to for me."

[Shirley Ujest]

I always had the impression that women, to paraphrase Van Morrison, often "dress up for each other."


Y'know, this is so fooking true. I beleive I've had an epiphany. w00t

[Guinastasia]

Well, when considering major medical stuff like that I like to seek God's will before I go through with anything.

I don't want to go under the knife for something like that without a clear and resounding "yes," ya know?




Not really-do you mean you pray, and then you'll get "a sign", or does God actually talk to you? Or do you mean things will work out that will allow it-like your doctor will reccomend it?

I'm honestly not questioning your faith, or saying that it's wrong for you to feel this way, I'm just very confused by this. I just want to know how you "seek God's will", and how "He" answers?



(Al Bundy Voice). And do you know who says stuff like that? Fat girls


Oh, and Wesley, that is NOT an Al Bundy quote. That was what Donna told Jackie on That '70s Show, when Jackie slapped Donna's hand when the latter tried to take Jackie's candybar away.

Seriously though, it's not just how men judge women, it's how society at large (no pun intended) does.

[Wesley Clark]

Oh, and Wesley, that is NOT an Al Bundy quote. That was what Donna told Jackie on That '70s Show, when Jackie slapped Donna's hand when the latter tried to take Jackie's candybar away.

Seriously though, it's not just how men judge women, it's how society at large (no pun intended) does.

Its an Al Bundy quote too. Actually its a generic cultural quote but i've heard Bundy use it. Al was riding in a carpool with 4 obese women and one of them said 'you're never too big to be sexy'.

[Kyla]

I definitely dress and compare my body against the bodies of my female aquaintances. I know guys. They don't really care about a lot of the stuff I do every day to make myself look nice; they seem more interested in boobs. It's about fitting in and having the girls ask you where you got that sweater and those shoes are so cute and I like your haircut.

I hold myself against the women I know. I think "oh, if only my body looked like hers, I would be happy." How much do we identify as our body shapes? I wrote out, and then deleted, "I am a size 6." No, I'm not. I'm Kyla. I usually wear a size 6, but it's not who I am. Still, that's how we see ourselves. And if only I could be a size 4, everything would be perfect. Right? I remember when I weighed eight pounds less than I do now and I still wanted to lose another five. Now I'm struggling to lose those eight pounds again.

I waver on it, though. I know that I'm slender and at a perfectly healthy weight. Who really cares about the stupid eight pounds? Me, when I see my coworker with the perfectly sculpted body.

[Kaitlyn]

I always had the impression that women, to paraphrase Van Morrison, often "dress up for each other."

I certainly dress to impress one certain lady, but mainly I do it because, to paraphrase Fernando, it makes me feel good to look good.

[Draelin]

Of course, I'm also one of those people who insists on having a cigarette everytime I'm bombarded with a sanctimonious Truth ad, so maybe this is purely a "me" problem.
I'm so glad to hear I'm not the only one who does this. :) And then I have a Pop Tart.

[raz]

I would estimate that on any given day, I'm spending at least 2-3 hours total feeling fat, pulling at my shirt, lamenting the bagel that I ate with my cereal, waiting for lunch, wondering why I'm hungry, analyzing whether or not I'm actually hungry, etc.
Amen to that.

Although I'm not fat, never have been and probably never will be, that's me. I got on birth control about 6 months ago and slowly, slowly, slowly started gaining a little bit of wait. One day I woke up and my size 3 pants didn't fit. I literally could not fit into this pair of pants that I just had on a couple of days ago. I went back to the health clinic and was shocked to see that I had gained nearly 20 pounds. It's all I think about. I doubt other people can tell, but I can tell. I can feel the love handles and stomach pudge that I never had before, and its an awful feeling. I hate it. I've never had bad eating habits and still I'm gaining weight. I called the health clinic to make an appointment to switch my BC. You might be thinking, well thats not that much weight gain, you're still skinny. That's what I'm thinking too. But how do I know if the weight gain is going to stop? When will it stop? I ate healthily and exercized 3 times a week for 3 weeks and guess what? I gained a pound. It sucks.

[mlerose]

raz, if you're on Mircette, that's the exact same experience I had. I found out after I went off it that it causes uncontrolled weight gain in a lot of women. See my post above.

[malkavia]

You might be thinking, well thats not that much weight gain, you're still skinny. That's what I'm thinking too. But how do I know if the weight gain is going to stop? When will it stop? I ate healthily and exercized 3 times a week for 3 weeks and guess what? I gained a pound. It sucks.


I used to think that. I used to tell my sister that when she started to put on a bit of weight. She went from a size 4-6 to a size 10-12 over the course of a year and all I could see is "But I would KILL to be a 10-12, wtf is wrong with her?" Well, turns out that what was wrong with her is that she was no longer comfortable in her clothes, the things she used to wear were now collecting dust in her closet and she was watching her body shape change in ways that she was not prepared for.

It's pretty sick and judgemental for someone who has never lived your life to think "God, it's only 20 lbs. I could lose 20lbs in my couch cushions and barely notice."

There are probably people so obese that they can barely walk who would look at me and say "God, it's only 100 lbs. I lost 100 lbs once and I was still huge and thus, 100lbs must not be very much."

No one really knows another persons struggle. To be honest, if I ate healthily and excersized three times a week to find that I'd gained a pound, I can assure you that I would spend the following evening crying into a giant bowl of Lucky Charms.

I hope that changing your BC helps and that you're back where you're comfortable soon!

[raz]

Thanks for the support. I really hope that switching BC will help. You know, gaining the weight wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't all in one frickin spot! Why couldnt one teeny little pound or so go to my boobs?

I guess the one thing I've learned is this: No matter what you look like, and no matter what other people tell you or think about you, you will never be happy until YOU are satisfied with yourself and how you look. For some of us, it comes easily. The rest of us, not so easily. It may be because we are physically unattractive, or maybe it's just all in our heads. I think its much easier to look skinny to others than it is to feel skinny inside our own heads.

And unfortunately, thin is in.

[Glory]

And it's hard not to have another cookie, so hard that I seldom have the first cookie now. It's a lot easier to say "no thanks" to the first cookie than the second cookie, or the third ...

How interesting, I'm exactly the same way. I've lost 46 lbs since July and it's been really hard work (the last 10 lbs are killing me). It's much easier for me to say no to all cookies than cookie number 2.

[Marsie]

I binged and purged Sunday night. I took laxatives and threw my guts up maybe 20 times. I spent an hour sobbing in my therapist's office Wednesday afternoon.

My mother and pediatrician put me on my first diet when I was in 4th grade. It included diet pills (Tenuate). I lost weight.

I'm 46 years old and weigh 265 lbs at 5'2".

Yeah, I want to be thin.

[Jennyrosity]

Marsie, you poor thing!

I hope you can work this out.

[Marsie]

Thanks so much. I don't know where that post came from. Usually I show much more restraint. Yes, I am trying to work it out. This is something that just rears it's ugly head now and then.

[Shirley Ujest]

Marsie, you poor thing. Love yourself and take care of yourself. You are the only You will ever have.