Battlestar Galactica- Whats up with the Cylon God?

[jeffh3000]

For those following the show, you know that there is a lot of "God" talk going on by the cylons. Also notably, apparently the colonists are polytheists(referring to the lords of kobol)

My thread questions are
1. What is the cylon goal with this, and why does human denial upset them so much?
2. What/who is their God?
3. where is the story going to go with this?

For example is their god the orginal designer of cylons, a factory that makes cylons who is "alive" and whose name is God, an intangle super intelligent computer program, an uber-cylon that is the master of all others, or a more intangable God in the christian sense

Any other thoughts regarding the general "god" plotline would fine too.

Spoiler rules
-anything that that has aired is fair game to discuss
-anything referencing actual future episode information should be "spoilered"
-things that are only theory regarding direction of future episodes don't need to be "spoilered"

[Ponder Stibbons]

It certainly seems that the entire story arc is revolving around the question posed in the thread title. So far in the series, we've only gotten tantilizing hints about religion. The humans are apparently pagans of the Greco-Roman variety. Indeed, why does this upset the Cylons?

The easy answer is that somewhere there is a "central Cylon computer", acting as the network server for all Cylons, and that this computer is their "God". That's the easy answer, and it is almost certainly the wrong answer. It's much too much of an easy out, one that the BG writers have so far shown they wouldn't take.

I think their monotheistic belief is a true "Belief", one that somehow arose during or after the last human-Cylon conflict. And now they are proselytizing in the only way they know how. They had to kill the majority of humans -- but not all! -- in order to shake the survivors to the core. Now in this state of panic they should be receptive to their beliefs. In the end, those who convert, such as Balthar, will survive and any holdouts will be killed, thus making the (for want of a better phrase) "Belief Structure" of the universe pure and unadulterated.

Of course, I expect the humans to resist. Adama has a few tricks up his sleeve yet.

[akira5822]

I would imagine that the cylon leadership would create a "God myth" programming to control what are basically mobile A.I Is there any evidence that the footsoldiers have this beliefe system??

[carnivorousplant]

Is there any evidence that the footsoldiers have this beliefe system??

You mean the "toasters"? I don't think they have communicated anything at all.

[Zebra]

This is the part of the show that worries me the most. It seems to have the greatest chance to become really cheesy.

At first I felt that maybe they just wanted to add a 'religious war' aspect to the plot but it also seems to building to a point. Hopefully something unlike the Matrix.

Now it seems to me that if the humans find Cobal and Cobal will lead them to earth and there are unknow Cylons in the fleet, then they are going to lead the Cylons right to earth. By the time the rag-tag fugitive fleet finds earth, all that will remain is a smoking, radioactive rock.

[Lumpy]

Ok, here's an idea: The Cylon God is ... God. Really God. I mean, if you can accept that God would send a flood to exterminate the entire human race except for 8 chosen survivors, or nuke Sodom and Gomorrah, or order the Israelites to commit genocide on the Caananites, then maybe God was just going through one of his Jehovah moods when he had the Cylons destroy the Twelve Colonies.

[Leroy Brown]

Google "Battlestar Galactica, Mormonism".

[FilmGeek]

Didn't the Cylon (Callum Keith Rennie) in the most recent ep. say "i am god". I thought the cylons think of their civilization somehow as god itself (since his personality would be sent back into a new body, making him immortal, and eventually, omnipetent.

I'm not very good with religion and religious/philosophical arguments , so this could be totally off, but what do you think?

[carnivorousplant]

but what do you think?

I think we should take Ron Moore out behind the Four Dice Cafe and beat it out of him.
:)

On a more realistic level, (how would we get him to Fordyce?) I think the Cylon was just messing with her head.
Like Zebra, I hope they don't go too far with this concept.

[jeffh3000]

I would imagine that the cylon leadership would create a "God myth" programming to control what are basically mobile A.I Is there any evidence that the footsoldiers have this beliefe system??

So do you think that the top of the cylon leadership echilon is basically the cylon "god" (super computer or otherwise) or that the top leaders are just propagating the concept to more easy control underlings?

As for the toasters, I think they pretty much believe what ever their superiors tell them. They don't seem to have a lot of independence

[jeffh3000]

Google "Battlestar Galactica, Mormonism".

Well, most of the mormonism is from the orginal series and much doesn't apply here. Actually the main writer and executive producer ronald moore has stated that he is trying to stay away from the mormon angle and plots of the orginal series

[jeffh3000]

I think we should take Ron Moore out behind the Four Dice Cafe and beat it out of him. :)
That is probably the best idea. :)

Didn't the Cylon (Callum Keith Rennie) in the most recent ep. say "i am god". I thought the cylons think of their civilization somehow as god itself

This is actually a facinating spin, that sounds like the kind of thing the writers might pull. I personally like the concept that the cylon civiliation as a whole is their god. The problem with this is that they really don't always seem to be on the same page, making it hard to believe that they think that. Certainly it seems that the boomers and sixes don't get along well.

[Odinoneeye]

You know, if I was writing the series. In the scene where 6 beats up Boomer, I would have had Boomer fight back.

And I would have had the scene take place in a mud pit.

Or possibly a bit pool of raspberry Jello.

[The Tooth]

Is there anything so far to indicate all the Cylons have the same view of God? Six seems be something of a softie when it comes to humans, thinking that we're all part of God's grand plan; Conoy figured we were facing God's wrath and the Cylons might be meant as a replacement. I'm kind of leaning towards the idea that the Cylon God is the same philosophical construct the human God is, not anything concrete like the programmed worship of a supercomputer.

Didn't they pull that in an original episode of Star Trek? The Fabrini or something?

That a human-made intelligence has evolved and developed a sex drive and a need for religion is a great idea. One of many on this show. I'm enjoying this new incarnation of Battlestar Galactica a whole lot.

[MaddyStrut]

Someone in another thread posted a link to Ron Moore's blog (http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html) . He does say something about the religion aspect in one of the earlier questions:

The religious angle was something that evolved after the first draft of the miniseries. In that draft, I had mentioned, almost in passing, that Number Six believed in God and that really intrigued Michael Jackson (the executive, not the singer) who was working at the studio at the time. He suggested making it a bigger part of the show and also to more strongly play the Al-Queada/Cylon parallels. Both comments surprised and delighted me and I was more than happy to go in both those directions. The Colonials in the original were always mentioning the "Lords of Kobol" and I decided to make that literal rather than figurative and give them a polytheistic religion and the Cylons a monotheistic belief system. I found the clash of those two belief systems to be fascinating in our own history and thought it would be an interesting conflict in the show.

It doesn't really answer where they are going with it, but I found it interesting.

[John Mace]

It's a very interesting question, and I have to say I have no idea where they're going with this concept. But, I like it so far. I'd be perfectly happy if they just kept as vague as it is now-- it just makes the human-like Cylons all that much harder to understand.

[FilmGeek]

Ooh, maybe it's V-ger.

[carnivorousplant]

Ooh, maybe it's V-ger.

"Where No Mad has gone before."

[Cervaise]

What does Kobol want with a starship?

[Odinoneeye]

It doesn't seem like the colonials are very religious. Doesn't Apollo say something along the lines of his callsign being an old legend?

They only seem to get religion by contact with the cylons. Both Baltar and Starbuck end up praying due to their exposure to cylons.

[carnivorousplant]

What does Kobol want with a starship?

I think you're blaspheming; "What do The Lords of Cobol want with a star...er, Battlestar?"

[carnivorousplant]

I don't have a copy of Six Degrees. Is the exchange of tapes or DVDs frowned upon by the Lords of Kobolrators?

[voltaire]

According to the captured and subsequently tortured cylon from the last episode, "We're all gods, all of us (humans and cyclons) ... God loved you (humans) more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, hate, corruption, and evil, so then he decided to create the Cylons."

It's like the Cylons are right out of the Old Testament (with technology updates), sent to strike down and punish the humans for their sins, and to effect a change in the way they're doing things.

Since it's rather obvious that whatever entity controls the Cyclons doesn't really want to kill off all of the remaining humans, it seems to me that they want to selectively breed with the humans that have traits they consider positive. They know that neither humans nor cylons are perfect, but with some controlled breeding, they hope to create beings worthy of their god.

[jeffh3000]

Someone in another thread posted a link to Ron Moore's blog (http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html) . He does say something about the religion aspect in one of the earlier questions:


The religious angle was something that evolved after the first draft of the miniseries. In that draft, I had mentioned, almost in passing, that Number Six believed in God and that really intrigued Michael Jackson (the executive, not the singer) who was working at the studio at the time. He suggested making it a bigger part of the show and also to more strongly play the Al-Queada/Cylon parallels. Both comments surprised and delighted me and I was more than happy to go in both those directions. The Colonials in the original were always mentioning the "Lords of Kobol" and I decided to make that literal rather than figurative and give them a polytheistic religion and the Cylons a monotheistic belief system. I found the clash of those two belief systems to be fascinating in our own history and thought it would be an interesting conflict in the show.
It doesn't really answer where they are going with it, but I found it interesting.

This is interesting, I guess the question is what is behind or the basis of both of these beliefs. For example, from the most recent episode (2/25) We are given the impression that the colonials are going to find the planet Kobol in the future, so it must really exist. To me, I assume that their "gods" are simply an advanced race they are descended or an offshoot from that orginally seeded the colonies. At the moment I am of the theory that the cylon god is some type of super-sentient computer program that may or may not have a "body" or central location.

[jeffh3000]

This is interesting, I guess the question is what is behind or the basis of both of these beliefs. For example, from the most recent episode (2/25) We are given the impression that the colonials are going to find the planet Kobol in the future, so it must really exist. To me, I assume that their "gods" are simply an advanced race they are descended or an offshoot from that orginally seeded the colonies. At the moment I am of the theory that the cylon god is some type of super-sentient computer program that may or may not have a "body" or central location.

Another interesting possibility is that maybe ONE of the orginal "lords of kobol" was unhappy with their decendants and has taken the side of the Cylons and is now their "one true god".

[jeffh3000]

Since it's rather obvious that whatever entity controls the Cyclons doesn't really want to kill off all of the remaining humans, it seems to me that they want to selectively breed with the humans that have traits they consider positive. They know that neither humans nor cylons are perfect, but with some controlled breeding, they hope to create beings worthy of their god.

Well it is not obvious at all that cylons don't intend to kill all humans. We don't know who or what is behind the cylons and what their goal is. A popular theory is that cylons are just using colonials to find earth as they believe it is real, with the goal of destroying the last of the human menance. That is not to say that some cylons don't become quite intruiged with humanity in the mean time.

It is even possible that maybe ONE of the orginal "lords of kobol" was unhappy with their decendants and has taken the side of the Cylons and is now their "one true god" smiting down those evil doers.

[voltaire]

Well it is not obvious at all that cylons don't intend to kill all humans.
What was the purpose of leaving Helo alive and fornicating with BoomerBot on Caprica? With all the cylons that look like humans, they could surely do more damage to the fleet than they have done.
A popular theory is that cylons are just using colonials to find earth as they believe it is real, with the goal of destroying the last of the human menance.
The cylons have been around in human society for a while, they probably know just as much if not more than any humans about the location of Cobol and/or Earth. They also seem to be much better equipped to explore the galaxy than the ragtag fleet of humans that has to stay together. It just doesn't seem logical for the cylons to ignore an immediate threat that they know about and could destroy, in order to possibly follow them to some other far away potential threat that might even be a myth. A mythical, far-away, potential threat that they could always find later in their own good time.

The cylons want to breed with humans, that's why they're all so damn hot!

[carnivorousplant]

What was the purpose of leaving Helo alive and fornicating with BoomerBot on Caprica?

They are experimenting with the human condition. They want to become human. Better of course, but human.

[FriarTed]

I still havent gotten to see any of the new BG, but since the Mormon angle has been brought up- RE "Lords of Kobol"- google up Mormonism & Kolob.

[jeffh3000]

I still havent gotten to see any of the new BG, but since the Mormon angle has been brought up- RE "Lords of Kobol"- google up Mormonism & Kolob.

First, You should watch the series as it is quite good, a very strong character based story. You really won't regret it. You can even watch the pilot episode free online commerical free anytime at http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/33_full_episode/

Second, While a huge part of the orginal series, Mormonism doesn't really apply to the new series, only the orginal, as the current writer /exec producer stated he didn't want to take the mormon angle and that he was going to take it in a different direction. I am not sure where they are going to go with the lords of kobol as a result of this. The show does have a very strong religious theme however, much more overt than the orginal mormon based series.

[jeffh3000]

What was the purpose of leaving Helo alive and fornicating with BoomerBot on Caprica? With all the cylons that look like humans, they could surely do more damage to the fleet than they have done.

The cylons have been around in human society for a while, they probably know just as much if not more than any humans about the location of Cobol and/or Earth. They also seem to be much better equipped to explore the galaxy than the ragtag fleet of humans that has to stay together. It just doesn't seem logical for the cylons to ignore an immediate threat that they know about and could destroy, in order to possibly follow them to some other far away potential threat that might even be a myth. A mythical, far-away, potential threat that they could always find later in their own good time.

The cylons want to breed with humans, that's why they're all so damn hot!

Well they certainly have an interest in examining the human condition, however their goal is supposed to be eventual annihilation. Now, I do believe that there are going to be some problems developing as a result of six's increasing interests and curiosities, as well as boomer apparently being maybe just a little bit too human like.

The cylons aren't too worried about finishing us off now, simply because THEY believe that they can finish the job anytime they like, and don't pecieve us as a threat really at this point. Whether this is actually true is another matter. Like a cat playing with a mouse, it enjoyes playing with its prey. The cylons to me, appear to be supremely arrogant, and they are not worried about anything...yet.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

The cylons aren't too worried about finishing us off now, simply because THEY believe that they can finish the job anytime they like, and don't pecieve us as a threat really at this point. Whether this is actually true is another matter. Like a cat playing with a mouse, it enjoyes playing with its prey. The cylons to me, appear to be supremely arrogant, and they are not worried about anything...yet.

I disagree.

Cylons are not operating on feelings here, as much as on math.

Billions of Humans have died. Mere thousands are left.

Less than 1/10 of 1% of the Human population is left alive.

Mathematically, this is utterly insignificant.

Priorities have shifted. Galactica & the fleet are not a "maximum effort" priority.

Do the Cylons even know Earth exists? It is unproven. Even Adama doesn't believe it.

No. The Cylons are merely being cost-efficient. If Galactica was important, there would be 200 to 300 Base Stars attacking all at once.

They have not learned the lesson:


Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War

[carnivorousplant]

If Galactica was important, there would be 200 to 300 Base Stars attacking all at once.

How many do they have? How many did they use in the initial fight against the modern battlestars?

[Lumpy]

Quote:
Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of WarAlthough in this case we have to make an exception. The Cylons carried out a forty-year tactical withdrawl and it worked perfectly.

[jeffh3000]

I disagree.

Cylons are not operating on feelings here, as much as on math.

Billions of Humans have died. Mere thousands are left.

Less than 1/10 of 1% of the Human population is left alive.

Mathematically, this is utterly insignificant.

Priorities have shifted. Galactica & the fleet are not a "maximum effort" priority.

Do the Cylons even know Earth exists? It is unproven. Even Adama doesn't believe it.

No. The Cylons are merely being cost-efficient. If Galactica was important, there would be 200 to 300 Base Stars attacking all at once.

They have not learned the lesson:

I don't know about feelings, but they do seem to believe that all humans must be destroyed. As stated, they are not worried about getting galactia now, because they want be lead to earth. They also do want to spend time studing humans. The irony is that the Cylons seem to have such a concern about being human-like, despite their obvious distain for the human race.

Whether or not earth actually exists, the Cylons most likely believe it does, based on comments from the last episode regarding "you will find Kobol", as if this has already been ordained by the cylon god. While Adama believes that earth and kobol are legends, the cylons believe they are real.

Another possibility is that the cylon god wants to destroy the human gods (the lords of kobol) and that they are trying to find kobol through the surviving humans.

[Pushkin]

You mean the "toasters"? I don't think they have communicated anything at all.

So that's the significance of the guy on Caprica being found when his toast pops up :smack: Has that been shown in the US? Is it spoilerable?

[BlueOhio]

I really, really hope that the Battlestar doesn't finally get to earth, to find it devoid of humans, and we find out that Adama = Adam and Six/Boomer/Some-other-cylon = Eve.

Because I really like the show.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

As stated, they are not worried about getting galactia now, because they want be lead to earth.

Where is this stated? Cite? :dubious: :dubious: :dubious:

[carnivorousplant]

Pushkin-Yes, that episode has been shown in the USA.

[jeffh3000]

Where is this stated? Cite?

Sorry, I meant as I had previously stated. (the flaw of late night posts)

[Odinoneeye]

Did the cylon Starbuck tortured say they would find Earth or that they would find the way to Earth?

If this one can be believed, he claimed that time was cyclical and all this happened before. So are they doing what they're doing due to a beleif in predetermination?

[ElvisL1ves]

Yes, he did. Leoben said they'd find Kobol first, then Earth. But he also said he was God.

Quick q - how long has it been since the Cylon War? 20 years, or 40?

[Zebra]

He said they would find Kobol and that would lead them to or point the way to earth.


I tought at the end of the mini-series the cylons (number six) stated that the surviving humans would eventually regroup, get stronger, and then come back for revenge. That is was their nature, so they would have to hunt the rest of the humans down for their own safety.

[jeffh3000]

What is that cylon god up to now.

The plot with balters supposed conversion show itself once again. We find in the end that god apearantly did provide Balter with the information he wished, allowing them to destroy a base. Balter himself is very shocked by this revalation, both when the results prove fruitful (destroying the base) as well as later when six confirms to him that "god" did in fact provide him with his answer.

Of course we also learn from six that this was actually part of the master plan anyway, as it was foretold in a ancient religious text, and that it would lead to a major confrontation at the "home of the gods", which is Kobol (the lords of Kobol)
previews tell us this will happen, as they will reach kobol in the 2 part season finale and cylons are there

There is also the plot with the president and her visions, which she is told by the preistess that it is part of an ancient religious prophecy, and that she may turn out to be the last great hope of the humans, be a prophet, and lead them to safety.

I guess my big question here is what is the cylon gods goal here? What is it that he is ulitmately trying to achieve. At times things seem to be contradictory, then we learn of a new angle.

Once again, What is up with the cylon god?

[jeffh3000]

What is that cylon god up to now.

The plot with balters supposed conversion show itself once again. We find in the end that god apearantly did provide Balter with the information he wished, allowing them to destroy a base. Balter himself is very shocked by this revalation, both when the results prove fruitful (destroying the base) as well as later when six confirms to him that "god" did in fact provide him with his answer.

Of course we also learn from six that this was actually part of the master plan anyway, as it was foretold in a ancient religious text, and that it would lead to a major confrontation at the "home of the gods", which is Kobol (the lords of Kobol)
previews tell us Spoiler:
this will happen, as they will reach kobol in the 2 part season finale and cylons are there


There is also the plot with the president and her visions, which she is told by the preistess that it is part of an ancient religious prophecy, and that she may turn out to be the last great hope of the humans, be a prophet, and lead them to safety.

I guess my big question here is what is the cylon gods goal here? What is it that he is ulitmately trying to achieve. At times things seem to be contradictory, then we learn of a new angle.

Once again, What is up with the cylon god?