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Lord Ashtar
03-04-2005, 11:18 AM
I joined Netflix yesterday. It rocks. The selection is huge, and I've been having lots of fun just browsing through the choices and adding movies to my queue.

I noticed there's a Gay/Lesbian genre. I thought, "Wat's up wit dat?" So I checked it out. It seems to me that most of these movies would actually belong in other genres. Some examples of some movies in this genre and where I think they should be:

Philadelphia - Drama
The Talented Mr. Ripley - Drama
Notorious C.H.O. - Comedy
Go - Comedy
Bound - Drama

It looks like any movie that has any sort of gay or lesbian relationship (or even a mention of one) goes in this genre. Why? I don't understand this. Can someone explain this to me?

Omniscient
03-04-2005, 11:25 AM
Well, I could be wrong about this, but the categorzation isn't absolute. A movie can fall under many different categories.

You can look closer, but I'm guessing Philadelphia is listed under Drama as well as Gay/Lesbian. As are the others. IMHO, the more ways to group things the better and easier to browse for. One way the internet beats the crap out of the Dewey Decimal system.

Musicat
03-04-2005, 11:26 AM
It looks like any movie that has any sort of gay or lesbian relationship (or even a mention of one) goes in this genre. It does look that way. But how would you organize it?

JerH
03-04-2005, 11:29 AM
Those films are probably listed in the other categories too. That's the advantage of a virtual video store vs. a physical one - you can put a movie into as many sections as you want.

As to why...because they can, probably. I probably would have limited it to films where the gay relationship was a primary part of the plotline (like Bound) rather than one small plot point (like in Go).

stpauler
03-04-2005, 11:29 AM
It looks like any movie that has any sort of gay or lesbian relationship (or even a mention of one) goes in this genre. Why? I don't understand this. Can someone explain this to me?Honestly? Because there are some folks in the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender) community that only live within those confines. They only watch movies with GLBT characters or themes, only go to bars, restaurants that cater to GLBTs, and pretty much stay in their little GLBT circles. It's a very sad, but true thing.

ultrafilter
03-04-2005, 11:33 AM
It's marketing.

Musicat
03-04-2005, 11:34 AM
As Omniscient and JerH suggest, apparently the "genre" tag shown in each movie's detail listing doesn't show all categories used. Philadelphia, shown in the Gay section, is tagged "drama", for example. I couldn't find one that was tagged "gay", not even The Gay Deceivers (http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=60000002&trkid=73), which I think belongs there not just for the title, but the story line as well. It's tagged as Comedy.

Scott Plaid
03-04-2005, 11:51 AM
I believe that it is because it is nice to see movie that acknowledge the existence of gay people, as opposed to the vast majority of fiction since the dawn of history. It's nice to be acknowledged.

pepperlandgirl
03-04-2005, 12:11 PM
Honestly? Because there are some folks in the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender) community that only live within those confines. They only watch movies with GLBT characters or themes, only go to bars, restaurants that cater to GLBTs, and pretty much stay in their little GLBT circles. It's a very sad, but true thing.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I don't know any straight people who only watch movies with straight characters or themes, or go to bars that only cater to straight to straight people or pretty much stay in little straight circles. It's almost disgusting how insular GLBT community is when the straight community goes out of their way to be all inclusive and broaden their horizons.

gobear
03-04-2005, 12:13 PM
Honestly? Because there are some folks in the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender) community that only live within those confines. They only watch movies with GLBT characters or themes, only go to bars, restaurants that cater to GLBTs, and pretty much stay in their little GLBT circles. It's a very sad, but true thing.
Or is it possible that there may be gay folks who might just be interested in watching gay-themed entertainment in addition to hetero romances? It's not as either-or as you make it out to be.

stpauler
03-04-2005, 12:26 PM
Or is it possible that there may be gay folks who might just be interested in watching gay-themed entertainment in addition to hetero romances? It's not as either-or as you make it out to be.
Yeah, I made that binary blanket statement. :rolleyes: I said that there are SOME.

middleman
03-04-2005, 12:35 PM
I don't like the tag myself. I am perfectly willing to watch a gay themed movie. I discovered the GAY/LESBIAN section of Netflix when I added The Broken Hearts Club to my queue.

I have no major homophobia issues, but I feel weird in some way watching a film that has been tagged GAY/LESBIAN. Like tagging it a "Foreign" film or something.

The labeling bothers me at some level. I think they should just "label" the films as drama, comedy, etc.

Sampiro
03-04-2005, 12:41 PM
Re: Netflix, your best bet is to select a gay themed movie (The Celluloid Closet, Boys Don't Cry, Trick, Muppets Take Manhattan,etc.) and see the "suggestions". They're based on what other people who have rented this movie have selected and they tend to be more helpful. The reason things like Philadelphia come up is because they go with what's most borrowed that's in that category, and since a film with a major star/major studio that is only tangentially gay themed rents a lot more than an indie much lower budget "genre" film like Edge of Seventeen it bumps them in the precedence.

gobear
03-04-2005, 12:41 PM
Yeah, I made that binary blanket statement. :rolleyes: I said that there are SOME.
And you gave that as the sole reason. You didn't say, "one reason might be," you said "honestly, because. . . "

stpauler
03-04-2005, 12:45 PM
And you gave that as the sole reason. You didn't say, "one reason might be," you said "honestly, because. . . "
Yes, just keep reading between the lines until you discover your own rationale. :rolleyes: I also didn't say that some people might want to have them bunched that way because they may be a doing a term report on gay themed music and how home delivery video service package the movies in a timely manner. Next time I'll make sure to get all of my bases covered. Way to spaz out.

teleute12
03-04-2005, 12:49 PM
...Muppets Take Manhattan?

pizzabrat
03-04-2005, 12:53 PM
Those films are probably listed in the other categories too. That's the advantage of a virtual video store vs. a physical one - you can put a movie into as many sections as you want.

As to why...because they can, probably. I probably would have limited it to films where the gay relationship was a primary part of the plotline (like Bound) rather than one small plot point (like in Go).

Go was an ensemble movie with multiple leads who had their own plots, and the gay ex-relationship between the actors was one of the main plotlines (that is, IIRC). There was enough gay in it to satisfy someone who only watches movies with gay content.

DMark
03-04-2005, 12:55 PM
I am no longer a member of Netflix, but I used to look in that section to see if there were any independent films out there that I may have missed.

But more importantly, I think it is for that person living 50 miles from nowhere, who doesn't have any contact to the Gay community and thus does not know about some of these films. Mambo Italiano, Touch of Pink, My Beautiful Laundromat, Jeffrey, Life of Harvey Milk, Taxi Zum Klo ...these were not exactly mainstream films and if you didn't know what to look for, you would never find them. That would be a shame - especially if you are Gay and sometimes want to see a film that relates to your feelings.

I believe these films are also cross referenced under Comedy, Drama, Indie...
but unless you are an avid reader of The Advocate film reviews, a lot of these smaller films will slip right under your Gaydar and not be seen.

Scott Plaid
03-04-2005, 01:00 PM
The labeling bothers me at some level. I think they should just "label" the films as drama, comedy, etc.
In modern society I have found that there is more than one man who is afraid that if he watches a mainstream film with a gay subplot, then the clerk will anounce to all within hearing range, "We got a Gay film for rent here. How much to rent a Gay film?" For those who are reading this thread and have a sense of humor, the following might make you chuckle.
If TiVo Thinks You Are Gay,Here's How to Set It Straight (http://www.pvruk.co.uk/article.cfm?attributes.article=175)

gobear
03-04-2005, 01:39 PM
Next time I'll make sure to get all of my bases covered. Way to spaz out.

Nah, just learn to write more clearly. Keep it up, and maybe you'll learn how to express yourself without having to resort to smilies.

stpauler
03-04-2005, 02:23 PM
Nah, just learn to write more clearly. Keep it up, and maybe you'll learn how to express yourself without having to resort to smilies.
Seriously. Fuck off.

fusoya
03-04-2005, 02:28 PM
Honestly? Because there are some folks in the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender) community that only live within those confines. They only watch movies with GLBT characters or themes, only go to bars, restaurants that cater to GLBTs, and pretty much stay in their little GLBT circles. It's a very sad, but true thing.

The same thing could be said about furries, but I don't see a section for THEM on Netflix (although Muppets Take Manhattan would probably be towards the top of that list)

stpauler
03-04-2005, 02:45 PM
The same thing could be said about furries, but I don't see a section for THEM on Netflix (although Muppets Take Manhattan would probably be towards the top of that list)
Are you also saying that Chuck E. Cheese counts as a furries' restaurant? ;)

Scott Plaid
03-04-2005, 02:59 PM
I wouldn't eat there, otherwise. The pizza is like cardboard. :D

Otto
03-04-2005, 03:06 PM
I have no major homophobia issues Just minor ones?

Why would you feel weird about watching a movie that some database has tagged "gay"? Why would it make any possible difference to you?

Hamish
03-04-2005, 03:11 PM
Or is it possible that there may be gay folks who might just be interested in watching gay-themed entertainment in addition to hetero romances? It's not as either-or as you make it out to be.

I agree. Many of us do like to see ourselves in movies, books, music etc, aside from just one badly-written token character off in the margins. We don't do it exclusively, but it is nice once in awhile.

Gamaliel
03-04-2005, 03:14 PM
This Gay and Lesbian film section is tearing us apart!

Lemur866
03-04-2005, 03:38 PM
It's a marketing scheme, just like labeling a movie "horror" or "science fiction" or "mystery" or "film noir" or "MST3K-worthy". The advantage of a virtual directory is that a movie can be cross-referenced indefinately, you don't have find one spot to put a movie...a movie can be searched by actor, director, plot elements, themes, country of origin, key grips, year released, awards won, whatever.

It just so happens that there are a lot of confirmed bachelors and women who might be pretty if only they'd wear a little makeup out there, and it just so happens that those folks sometimes happen to find themselves looking for movies to add to their netflix queues. If letting confirmed bachelors know that a particular movie is likely to feature hot sweaty throbbing man-on-man action is wrong, I don't want to be right. Of course, I, er, don't care for it myself, but if THEY like it, well...

Bridget Burke
03-04-2005, 04:03 PM
If letting confirmed bachelors know that a particular movie is likely to feature hot sweaty throbbing man-on-man action is wrong, I don't want to be right. Of course, I, er, don't care for it myself, but if THEY like it, well...

Of course, some of us women who actually do wear a bit of makeup might not be offended by naughty boys at play!

SolGrundy
03-04-2005, 05:08 PM
Nah, just learn to write more clearly. Keep it up, and maybe you'll learn how to express yourself without having to resort to smilies.
Sometimes an "argument" is so inane that it doesn't warrant anything more than a smiley.

stpauler's observation is completely, 100% valid, and so I repeat it here in its non-diluted, completely clear form, bolding mine:

Honestly? Because there are some folks in the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender) community that only live within those confines. They only watch movies with GLBT characters or themes, only go to bars, restaurants that cater to GLBTs, and pretty much stay in their little GLBT circles. It's a very sad, but true thing.

Which is a statement that someone would have to be just looking to be offended to find anything wrong with. And it's a completely accurate assessment of some people. Like the guy I went out with several months ago, who broke out Sordid Lives on our first date as a "hilarious must-see" movie. And the rest of his video collection looked like he just used the Gay & Lesbian section of Netflix as a checklist, and then threw in a copy of each of the Star Trek movies for "balance."

Just minor ones?

Why would you feel weird about watching a movie that some database has tagged "gay"? Why would it make any possible difference to you?
Maybe because it suddenly means that some shallow person somewhere has tried to attach greater significance to the movie than it deserves. And suddenly you can't say, "Well, you know, Philadelphia was kind of boring" without having a bunch of screaming queens in your face saying that you're a homophobe and probably a latent homo yourself.

Hamish
03-04-2005, 05:24 PM
Which is a statement that someone would have to be just looking to be offended to find anything wrong with. And it's a completely accurate assessment of some people. Like the guy I went out with several months ago, who broke out Sordid Lives on our first date as a "hilarious must-see" movie. And the rest of his video collection looked like he just used the Gay & Lesbian section of Netflix as a checklist, and then threw in a copy of each of the Star Trek movies for "balance."

Taken out of context, you'd be quite right. But look at the context of stpauler's reply. It answered the OP with a statement beginning "Because."

That's restrictive -- it leaves no room for those of us who like to watch queer film in addition to other films. It supplies a blanket answer that only takes one group of people into account as an explanation for the OP's query. It does not take effort to be offended at that.

Frankly, I thought stpauler's first reply to be deliberately inflammatory. To me, the "some people" refers not to "some people who use this database" -- it refers to "all people who use this database" who in turn are a sub-section ("some people") of the queer community.

stpauler
03-04-2005, 05:34 PM
Taken out of context, you'd be quite right. But look at the context of stpauler's reply. It answered the OP with a statement beginning "Because."

That's restrictive -- it leaves no room for those of us who like to watch queer film in addition to other films. It supplies a blanket answer that only takes one group of people into account as an explanation for the OP's query. It does not take effort to be offended at that.

Frankly, I thought stpauler's first reply to be deliberately inflammatory. To me, the "some people" refers not to "some people who use this database" -- it refers to "all people who use this database" who in turn are a sub-section ("some people") of the queer community.
Deliberately inflammatory? To whom? To the sad, sad, subsection of people that live solely in their rainbow colored basements afraid of catching "the straight"? Yeah, to them. I'll openly and honestly admit I have no respect for that type of person that lives so tightly in his/her enclave. Of course my word "Some" meant actually "some" and not ALL and my word "Because" meant "Because" because it was referring to the "some".

Otto
03-04-2005, 05:45 PM
Maybe because it suddenly means that some shallow person somewhere has tried to attach greater significance to the movie than it deserves. And suddenly you can't say, "Well, you know, Philadelphia was kind of boring" without having a bunch of screaming queens in your face saying that you're a homophobe and probably a latent homo yourself. If I can't think Philadelphia was boring without being labeled a homophobe then I don't want to live any more.

I don't see how slapping a "gay" label on a film becuase it has gay characters or plots is "attaching significance" to it.

Sampiro
03-04-2005, 06:07 PM
...Muppets Take Manhattan?

A dozen umarried pastel colored characters walk through Greenwich Village while having fists up their bums... how much gayer do you get?

SolGrundy
03-04-2005, 06:13 PM
Taken out of context, you'd be quite right. But look at the context of stpauler's reply. It answered the OP with a statement beginning "Because." [...]
Frankly, I thought stpauler's first reply to be deliberately inflammatory. To me, the "some people" refers not to "some people who use this database" -- it refers to "all people who use this database" who in turn are a sub-section ("some people") of the queer community.
You're right; it is about context. But honestly, I can't think of a context in which saying "There are a lot of people out there who are all wrapped up in the gay" is offensive, exclusionary, or undue stereotyping. Except maybe the context of "I'm suddenly feeling defensive because I just realized I have all the episodes of 'Queer as Folk', Longtime Companion, and four Pedro Almodovar movies in my Netflix queue."

There are people who embrace the stereotypes and have absolutely nothing more to contribute to the world than the fact that they're Gay Homosexual People Who Are Gay. And there are people who are desperate to distance themselves as far as possible from the stereotypes and deny that it has any relevance to them whatever. And then there are the majority of us who are somewhere in between, muddling through trying to figure out how significant it really is in day-to-day life and how much attention it really warrants.

I don't see how slapping a "gay" label on a film becuase it has gay characters or plots is "attaching significance" to it.
That's kind of the whole point of the OP, though. If you're on Netflix and you're clicking on the "Gay & Lesbian" section, it means that you want to watch a movie about the whole "gay experience," whatever that entails. And are you going to get that from Go or The Talented Mr. Ripley? (Personally, when I'm in the mood to watch a "gay movie," I don't mean Love! Valor! Compassion!, and they don't carry those movies on Netflix).

You could say that having gay characters in a movie is just incidental to the movie as a whole, has no significance, and would be appealing to anyone no matter if they're interested in "the gay stuff." If that's the case, why the need for a separate section? Well, then that implies that this is the section for movies about Gay People Talking About Gay Things And How They Affect Them As Gay People. And if that's the case, then... well, how much is there to say, really? You're gay, and yeah, it's difficult sometimes. What else you got?

Otto
03-04-2005, 06:20 PM
That's kind of the whole point of the OP, though. If you're on Netflix and you're clicking on the "Gay & Lesbian" section, it means that you want to watch a movie about the whole "gay experience," whatever that entails. But that's you putting that spin on the label. Do you really think Netflix, when designating a film "gay," is attempting to indicate that the movie is "about the whole 'gay experience'"? Isn't it more likely that "gay" to Netflix means "gay characters" or "gay plotlines"?
You could say that having gay characters in a movie is just incidental to the movie as a whole, has no significance, and would be appealing to anyone no matter if they're interested in "the gay stuff." If that's the case, why the need for a separate section? Ease of use? Convenience to the customer who knows that, say, "Go" has gay themes but doesn't know whether it's a comedy or drama?

matt_mcl
03-04-2005, 06:29 PM
Deliberately inflammatory? To whom? To the sad, sad, subsection of people that live solely in their rainbow colored basements afraid of catching "the straight"? Yeah, to them. I'll openly and honestly admit I have no respect for that type of person that lives so tightly in his/her enclave. Of course my word "Some" meant actually "some" and not ALL and my word "Because" meant "Because" because it was referring to the "some".

You need to realize that many of us have read far too many denunciations to the effect that the only reason a person could be interested in Queer culture is if they were one of those chimerical people in rainbow-coloured basements care about.

As your statement read, it certainly sounded as though that's what you meant. Even accepting that you meant that only one of the reasons for the category's existence are these hermetically-queered people the community is supposedly beset with, the statement is still pretty skeevy.

I mean, I've been accused of "living in a tight enclave" on occasion; what the accusation usually means is that I unrepentantly exhibit interest in (or even believe in the concept of) Queer culture and history, occasionally frequent businesses that cater to gays and lesbians, discuss the political implications of my sexuality, and do charity work with a view to preventing Queer youth suicide. Quel horreur.

You can understand, then, why I'm suspicious of the whole idea that there are scads of fags living in a bubble, and that this category is set up for them. Blaming those scary ghetto queers is, fairly often, a convenient, easy-to-swallow manner to deny that Queers have a history or a culture, or indeed that we exist altogether.

matt_mcl
03-04-2005, 06:32 PM
What else you got?

A history? A culture? A community? A set of experiences we often share? A way to learn about different experiences that those like us face in other parts of the world?

SolGrundy
03-04-2005, 06:42 PM
But that's you putting that spin on the label. Do you really think Netflix, when designating a film "gay," is attempting to indicate that the movie is "about the whole 'gay experience'"? Isn't it more likely that "gay" to Netflix means "gay characters" or "gay plotlines"?
I'm not talking about the Netflix Agenda, though, I'm talking about what a person is looking for when he starts browsing the "Gay & Lesbian" section. It means that "Gay characters" and "gay plotlines" are significant to him for whatever reason. Ergo, he's looking for movies like Bound not because they're modern noir crime capers, but because it's got two chicks doin' it.

Ease of use? Convenience to the customer who knows that, say, "Go" has gay themes but doesn't know whether it's a comedy or drama?
So is that the answer? It's included to cater to people who are shallow enough that the fact that Go has gay people somewhere in it is more significant than what it's actually saying, and whether it's funny or sad? And is too lazy to type "Go" into a search field? Is The Talented Mr. Ripley a movie about a homosexual, or is it about a sociopath who happens to be homosexual?

Actually, the question has already been answered by Hamish and others, and the rest is just bickering. Some people want to see movies (at certain times, not at the exclusion of other forms of entertainment or other subject matter, offer void where not applicable, your mileage may vary) that have insight or a different spin on what it means to be gay. That's not saying that's all the movie has to offer, and that's not saying that's all the person is interested in.

matt_mcl
03-04-2005, 07:01 PM
I'm not talking about the Netflix Agenda, though, I'm talking about what a person is looking for when he starts browsing the "Gay & Lesbian" section. It means that "Gay characters" and "gay plotlines" are significant to him for whatever reason. Ergo, he's looking for movies like Bound not because they're modern noir crime capers, but because it's got two chicks doin' it.

Well... yeah. And sometimes I want to read The Edible Woman or Bonheur d'occasion not because they're a feminist satire/a wrenching tale of poverty, but because they're CanLit - they come out of, and speak to, and were seminal within, a particular culture: mine.

Furthermore, I spend so much time being bombarded with images of straight people - not that there's anything wrong with that - that sometimes I might like to see a piece of culture that has to do with my reality. It doesn't mean I'm hermetically sealed; but it means that I am, in fact, not straight, and yet I occasionally like having my existence mentioned. I can relate to two boys or two girls in luff in a way that is different, more intimate, than the way I relate to a heterosexual love story.

Otto
03-04-2005, 07:06 PM
So is that the answer? It's included to cater to people who are shallow enough that the fact that Go has gay people somewhere in it is more significant than what it's actually saying, and whether it's funny or sad? And is too lazy to type "Go" into a search field? Jesus, what's up your butt about this? So "Go" is a bad example. Say they're too lazy to type "Berlin Alexanderplatz" into a search engine instead. And yeah, I can see someone, perhaps on a friend's recommendation, seeking out a movie without knowing what specific genre it falls into (or a movie that doesn't fall clearly into one genre).
Is The Talented Mr. Ripley a movie about a homosexual, or is it about a sociopath who happens to be homosexual? Neither, since I don't believe Ripley's homosexual. But that's for another thread.

MaceMan
03-04-2005, 08:30 PM
The "gay and lesbian" category at Netflix is definitely a bonus to those people who feel uncomfortable renting titles like "Queer as Folk" from the straight teenagers at their local Blockbuster. It makes many more titles with gay themes accessible, and it's a lot easier to browse and rent titles in the comfort of your home when you are in the closet.

sj2
03-04-2005, 09:03 PM
It's marketing.


Ding. Ding. We have a winner. (Please select your prize from the 3rd shelf).

It *is* all about the marketing. Hell, if it makes people feel special or acknowledged you can go ahead and select a prize from the 2nd shelf! :D

SolGrundy
03-04-2005, 09:15 PM
Jesus, what's up your butt about this? So "Go" is a bad example. Say they're too lazy to type "Berlin Alexanderplatz" into a search engine instead. And yeah, I can see someone, perhaps on a friend's recommendation, seeking out a movie without knowing what specific genre it falls into (or a movie that doesn't fall clearly into one genre).
Well geez, from the looks of things, I've got a pedantic, argumentative gay man up my butt. Ah well; it's not like it's the first time.

You said you don't see how putting a movie in the "Gay and Lesbian" section attaches any significance to it. Let's see if I can answer that a third time:

Somebody recommends "Berlin Alexanderplatz" to me because he says it's an interesting character study and portrayal of life in pre-WWII Germany. I might check it out if I've got time to kill. Somebody else recommends "Berlin Alexanderplatz" to me because it's chock full o' homos. I say, "So? What else is it about?"

The only thing the movies in that section all have in common is that they have "gay characters and gay plotlines" in them. Which means that anybody searching on that section is looking for movies that have gay characters and/or gay plotlines, regardless of when or where they're set, whether they're comedies or dramas, whether it's all gay or just has the sensitive gay friend of the female lead, whatever. Which means that he's attaching significance to that.

matt_mcl
03-04-2005, 09:26 PM
Which means that he's attaching significance to that.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

gobear
03-04-2005, 10:07 PM
I can assure St. Pauler and Sol Grundy that livng in Northern Virginia is as far as one can get from living in a "rainbow-colored basement." Heck, the state legislature just struck down --by ONE vote--a ban on offering health insurance for domestic partners employees of private companies.

Maybe you two have no interest in gay culture or romance, but some of us like to watch entertainment that addresses our interests and our lives. I watch enough hetero romance, and sometimes I want to see the boy getting the boy instead of the girl. GLBT is just a category, like Crime or Comedy or Mystery or Science Fiction or Drama. If you have a problem with it, that's for you two to work out.

LifeOnWry
03-04-2005, 10:57 PM
Yeah, so anyway....

I was following linkies here and there and I clicked on a review of the movie Ocean's Twelve. I have no idea exactly where it was published, but it was apparently a site/zine that catered to the "alternative" sexuality market. I was kinda amused - it gave "gay points" and Ocean's Twelve got one because Eddie Izzard (who, in his real life, is a straight transvestite) was in it. I found that so ... odd... that I started clicking on other reviews on the site and discovered they seem to award gay points to the STRANGEST films for the STRANGEST reasons. One film got a point because an actor in the movie played a gay character in a completely different movie!

As for the Netflix thing, I'd be likely to check that section, because I don't think I have a broad enough exposure to anything but a white-bread suburban background. I'm prone to renting "black" movies, too (although I tend to stay away from the comedies in that section... but then, I stay away from "white" stupid comedies, too.)

levdrakon
03-04-2005, 11:41 PM
Honestly? Because there are some folks in the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender) community that only live within those confines. They only watch movies with GLBT characters or themes, only go to bars, restaurants that cater to GLBTs, and pretty much stay in their little GLBT circles. It's a very sad, but true thing.

That's actually a good point you make there stpauler. If, by "good point" we mean stupid and ignorant.

I highly doubt that people who "only live within those confines. [O]nly watch movies with GLBT characters or themes, only go to bars, restaurants that cater to GLBTs, and pretty much stay in their little GLBT circles," would have any need for netflix. They've already got all their movies right there in their own communities.

Maybe, just maybe, there are, oh, I don't know, a few gays & lesbians in the world who don't live in this little gay ghetto you seem to think we all live in, and maybe, just maybe a few of us never see movies advertised with huge "THIS IS A GAY MOVIE" advertising attached to them, and maybe, just maybe, we'd like to be made aware of some of these movies, even though we don't happen to LIVE IN A FUCKING GAY ONLY WORLD.

Jack-ass.

shy guy
03-05-2005, 12:09 AM
What, exactly, is wrong with a gay person consuming predominantly gay-themed movies, books, etc. anyway? How exactly is that "sad?" I mean, sure, if a person avoids every single piece of media that's not gay-themed, they're missing out on a lot, but I don't think it would even be possible for someone to do that.

If we lived in a parallel universe where 99.9% of the movies, books, etc. were about gay people, I don't think I'd fault straight people for, basically, wanting to get away from the gayness for a while.

And I'm really not sure what's wrong with a gay person only wanting to go to gay bars. I mean, what exactly are they missing out on there?

Severian
03-05-2005, 12:11 AM
I'm not a Netflix member, but I do subscribe to Blockbuster Online. There too we have a Gay & Lesbian top-level category. About the only thing I find particularly interesting is that, while there is a Gay & Lesbian top-level category, there aren't any other categories specifically named for a subset of the population. I guess to me the question isn't "Why is there a Gay & Lesbian category?", but rather "Why aren't there Black or Latin or Republican or Canadian categories?"

levdrakon
03-05-2005, 03:32 AM
Angry bitter blah, blah, blah.

I apologize to the board, that is, Cafe Society. I didn't need to be a jerk there, outside of the Pit. I just... nevermind. I was a jerk.

C K Dexter Haven
03-05-2005, 06:56 AM
::: Moderator rings bell for attention ::::
CLANG! CLANG! CLANG!

OK, listen up, all of you. This forum is Cafe Society, and is for a discussion of arts and entertainment. You may criticize Netflicks all you want, but you may NOT insult other posters. Comments about other posters will stop NOW.

I'm not going to worry about how this started, but I'm going to stop it. That is, I'm not going to make a call on whether st pauler's initial comment was out of line, but the responses and counter-responses are clearly out of line.

So, listen up: if someone makes a comment that you believe to be inappropriate for this forum, the proper response is to hit the REPORT BAD POST button (the little exclamation point [ ! ] in the upper right of each post.) You do NOT reply in kind. When you reply, then they respond, and things escalate.

When the teacher walks onto the playground and finds two kids fighting, the first thing to do is stop the fight. It no longer matters much who insulted whom or who threw the first punch: it takes two to fight.

Everyone clear on this? Now, all of you: behave yourselves.

I apologize for not having got here sooner.

Otto
03-05-2005, 07:20 AM
I guess to me the question isn't "Why is there a Gay & Lesbian category?", but rather "Why aren't there Black or Latin or Republican or Canadian categories?" For Black and Latin, marketing and content. Someone ran the numbers and figured out that it made economic sense to have a GL category and ran the same numbers for other categories and decided it didn't.

For Republican, I would imagine that would be more of a content issue. Can anyone even name a mainstream movie that would fit the category? OK, Primary Colors but besides that there just doesn't seem to be enough to support the category.

And as for Canadians, well, Canadians just have lousy taste in movies.

FisherQueen
03-05-2005, 08:31 AM
When I'm in the mood fora comedy, I click on 'comedy' and there they are. When I'm in the mood for a love story, I do the same.

If I were a lesbian, and in the mood for a love story, and I had to wade through all the straight love stories looking for a movie about two girls in love, I think I would find it annoying.

I might be glad there was a G/L category, to save me some time.

BTW, I think 'Ocean's 11' and 'Ocean's 12' would certainly be of interest to gay men, regardless of the plot. There are some pretty, pretty men in those movies.

Mauvaise
03-05-2005, 09:03 AM
Except maybe the context of "I'm suddenly feeling defensive because I just realized I have all the episodes of 'Queer as Folk', Longtime Companion, and four Pedro Almodovar movies in my Netflix queue."

Ah shit, I have (or had before I watched it) all that on my queue (except for LTC). Does that mean I'm a gay man now? My boyfriend's going to be pissed! :p

Hamish
03-05-2005, 10:27 AM
And as for Canadians, well, Canadians just have lousy taste in movies.

Yikes. As long as we're talking films in the GLBT category, may I recommend Hanging Garden and Lilies?

For those others who don't approve of queer people wanting to watch films with queer content, I'm just going to say I'll be seeing Mambo Italiano this summer. I'll be renting it because I've heard it's good, because it's set in my city, and because it's a queer film.

That's a factor. I'm not going to apologize for participating in queer culture.

Indygrrl
03-05-2005, 10:37 AM
Just minor ones?

Why would you feel weird about watching a movie that some database has tagged "gay"? Why would it make any possible difference to you?

I :heart: Queer as Folk. It totally makes me hot.

However, I cannot imagine a straight guy being able to sit through it without squirming quite a bit.

Still, I think it would be weird NOT to rent something just because it might have something gay in it. And guys, you're really doing yourself a disservice if you avoid Bound because of your gay freakout syndromes. Same goes for Gia, or some of those other lesbionic movies.

stpauler
03-05-2005, 10:41 AM
That's actually a good point you make there stpauler. If, by "good point" we mean stupid and ignorant.

I highly doubt that people who "only live within those confines. [O]nly watch movies with GLBT characters or themes, only go to bars, restaurants that cater to GLBTs, and pretty much stay in their little GLBT circles," would have any need for netflix. They've already got all their movies right there in their own communities.

Maybe, just maybe, there are, oh, I don't know, a few gays & lesbians in the world who don't live in this little gay ghetto you seem to think we all live in, and maybe, just maybe a few of us never see movies advertised with huge "THIS IS A GAY MOVIE" advertising attached to them, and maybe, just maybe, we'd like to be made aware of some of these movies, even though we don't happen to LIVE IN A FUCKING GAY ONLY WORLD.

Jack-ass.
You do realize I'm gay, don't you? I've been out for the last 11+ years in one of the "top 10 gay cities" in the U.S. I've met a BUTTLOAD of people that fit my example. People that are so far into a "gay community" ideal that they're borderline heterophobic if not just being outright heterophobic.

Otto
03-05-2005, 02:20 PM
Yikes. As long as we're talking films in the GLBT category, may I recommend Hanging Garden and Lilies? Own both of them. Great starnge films both.
I'll be seeing Mambo Italiano this summer.
See, I said Canadians have lousy taste in films. Thanks for rpoving my point.
I've met a BUTTLOAD of people that fit my example. Interesting choice of words...

Sampiro
03-05-2005, 02:34 PM
You do realize I'm gay, don't you? I've been out for the last 11+ years in one of the "top 10 gay cities" in the U.S. I've met a BUTTLOAD of people that fit my example. People that are so far into a "gay community" ideal that they're borderline heterophobic if not just being outright heterophobic.

Actually, it's a problem I've had with friends, especially those from small Southern cities and towns where repression isn't the norm so much as necessary. They move to one of the Gay Meccas (Atlanta being the dream of all provincial Southeastern queerboys) and within a few weeks they totally ghetto-ize, even limiting their business and contact to (not making it up) gay restaurants*, gay dentists, gay bookstores, gay gyms, even gay grocery stores. If they made "gay dental floss", these guys would use it. They totally exist and I have actually known the ghettoization to break up relationships (when one partner goes "Over the rainbow flag" as I call it and the other is more "it's great not having to be closeted but get a grip! A good movie is a good movie and a good restaurant is a good restaurant!"). It's a phenomenon in the gay community similar to the hardshell Black Muslims among the Afr.Am. community or Veegans to the teenaged community, a leaderless cult if that is somehow possible. There have been scholarly articles written on this.

*Restaurants that serve conventional food of varying quality but primarily if not exclusively hire and cater to gay men and lesbians, not a "made of real girl scouts" type thing

SolGrundy
03-05-2005, 02:36 PM
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Of course not. Don't get me wrong; I don't have anything against Canadians per se. I just don't see why they have to be all up in my face about how they like to eat bacon.

Or were you talking about the gay thing? Well yeah, that too. Based on your and Hamish's arguments, I've gone from "it's wrong and sad" to "eh. Different strokes. So to speak." I'm not going to be renting anything just because one or more of the characters happen to be homo, but then, I can't deny that the only reason I've got Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil in my queue is because it's set in Savannah. Would be hypocritical to say that watching a movie only for the gay is bad, but watching a movie only for a city is fine.

Maybe I'd have a different opinion of "Gay Cinema" if I'd actually seen anything that was of any value to me. All I've seen falls into one of three groups: 1) Long, tedious, horrible stories of gay people having miserable lives with terrible stuff happening to them; 2) Long, tedious displays of camp and lame double entendres as if they were the pinnacle of humor; or 3) Long, tedious displays of navel-gazing and dialogue ripped straight from the pages of Livejournal, with watery-eyed B-list actors delivering audition-level monologues about the trials of growing up having to hide yourself. For example:

I :heart: Queer as Folk. It totally makes me hot.

However, I cannot imagine a straight guy being able to sit through it without squirming quite a bit.
Hell, I couldn't sit through it without squirming quite a bit. I despise that show.

If I'd ever seen any characters in any movie or TV series that I could relate to at all, it might've not taken me so long to clue in and come out. But then again, I don't think a two-hour-long movie about gay nerds who go to work and then go home to the internet, is something anyone would want to see.

Miller
03-05-2005, 02:45 PM
If I'd ever seen any characters in any movie or TV series that I could relate to at all, it might've not taken me so long to clue in and come out. But then again, I don't think a two-hour-long movie about gay nerds who go to work and then go home to the internet, is something anyone would want to see.

I'm telling you, man, my gay Clerks movie idea is gold. Pure gold!

Okay, admittedly, it'd be pretty much exactly like the original Clerks, except all the gay sex jokes are meant unironically, but still...

Hamish
03-05-2005, 03:50 PM
I'm telling you, man, my gay Clerks movie idea is gold. Pure gold!

Okay, admittedly, it'd be pretty much exactly like the original Clerks, except all the gay sex jokes are meant unironically, but still...

That's funny. While I was working a clerk job, I came up with stories that could be considered the "gay clerks," except drawn from my own clerking experiences. Ran into the problem that I can draw to save my life, but I still think I might try it someday when I actually have time.

Early Out
03-05-2005, 04:52 PM
I just checked Netflix, and since they don't offer Buster Goes to Laguna (http://www.rctvideo.com/buster.html), they can't really be serious about having a GLBT genre.

(Caution - sample pictures beyond the first page are definitely NOT PG-rated!)

Otto
03-05-2005, 07:46 PM
That's Buster? I thought one of the other guys from Sailor in the Wild was Buster.

Man, I'm glad I didn't buy BGTL.

masonite
03-06-2005, 03:14 AM
Okay. I am NOT a PoliticalFag, as a cursory reading of my posts will reveal. But I am still ooged out by the classification of whole films as "Gay" because there is one "homosexual" element to them, such as the movie "Go" which I loved and had totally forgotten had a gay couple in it until this thread.

But speaking to the OP, I get the impression the Gay thing is so significant to some that any film with any gay people has to be specially categorized, so that the Anti-Gay crowd can specifically avoid it. Perhaps I am paranoid, but I've had this impression ever since I saw a local Blockbuster store group "The Crying Game" with "Tootsie" (both are favorite movies of mine, for totally different reasons) -- I felt that to the Blockbuster customer, those films naturally went together because they both had "men" dressing and acting as "women," as though that were the main point of either film. I cannot imagine a more shallow analysis.

If a film is really about a gay romance, fine; group it in the Gay section. But if a film has a single gay character, or even a pretend-gay character, or a crossdresser of any stripe, does that really mean the film must be in the genre "Gay"? To me, that's like putting every movie with even one African-American actor in the "Black" genre. It's not-so-vaguely insulting.

Otto
03-06-2005, 04:19 AM
But if a film has a single gay character, or even a pretend-gay character, or a crossdresser of any stripe, does that really mean the film must be in the genre "Gay"? To me, that's like putting every movie with even one African-American actor in the "Black" genre. It's not-so-vaguely insulting. The difference I think is between a B&M video store and an online rental service. An online rental service can much more easily cross-file titles, so Go would appear in the Gay listing, the Drama listing, etc. Whereas a B&M store isn't going to be able to locate the same title physically in different stacks absent multiple copies, which would make little sense from a space planning perspective.

The B&M store I rent from most often divides the titles physically into broad categories like "Drama," "Comedy," "Silent," "TV," "Foreign" and so on, but also keep web listings and paper listings by additional categories including "Gay." They also list titles by director.

I think it gets back to a point I tried to make earlier, that some of the issue depends on what the intent of the categorizer is. Do they intend to segregate the titles or simply alert consumers to titles which may be of interest?

masonite
03-06-2005, 04:36 AM
Yah, I guess you're right; there's a difference between placing a film in the "Gay" section, or the "Comedy" section for that matter, in a bricks-and-mortar store; and tagging a film with the "Gay' class in some database, for the purpose of online searches.

In my Blockbuster case, it was one of those "If you liked This, you'll love That" displays, where I perceived the local management drew an automatic connection between "Tootsie" and "The Crying Game" because they both invovled (oh, horrors!) men-as-women. They would have placed "Some Like It Hot" in the same category, if they had ever heard of it.

levdrakon
03-06-2005, 05:45 AM
There are two movies I can think of off-hand that I really enjoyed yet didn't know were "gay movies" went I first saw them. Big Eden, and Red Dirt.

Both Blockbuster.com & Netflix have "Gay & Lesbian" catagories, but when I searched for these movies on Blockbuster, Big Eden came up as Comedy, Drama. Red dirt came up under Drama, Gay & Lesbian.

At Netflix, both movies came up only under Gay & Lesbian.

Now I'm almost wondering if Netflix is providing a service for rural gays & lesbians who might not otherwise come across these movies, or if they're segragating them so that, as masonite suggests, the anti-gay crowd can more easily avoid them.

That'd be a shame.

KellyM
03-06-2005, 11:18 AM
I am reminded of a novel I read some years back that had won an award for "best new work by a GLBT author". It was hideously bad; the plot was trite and the author's words seemed more tortured than crafted. As far as I can tell, this novel's only redeeming quality is that its author was a lesbian. Now, there are definitely quality lesbian authors; Joanna Russ immediately comes to mind. However, this individual's work was not fit for publication, but it got published anyway. Stuff doesn't get published unless there's a buyer for it (or it's published by a vanity press, but this wasn't a vanity publication). I am led to conclude that there are people who will buy total crap as long as it has a rainbow sticker on it -- and they don't care how badly it stinks.

Otto
03-06-2005, 03:16 PM
::: Moderator rings bell for attention ::::
CLANG! CLANG! CLANG! Went the trolley!

(can't believe no one went for that earlier)