Does milk *really* do a body good?

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

I'm darn curious to know how much real, actual scientific evidence is behind the American Dairy Council's assertions that we need milk--or that milk is even a healthy food for humans.

I've always been a big milk drinker but one of my more milk-hating friends suggested I check out some of her propaganda before tanking my son up on milk.

A lot of it was more histrionics than the objective reporting of research, but I suspect it's not all bunk. And of course we'd be fools to think the dairy farmers' marketing coalition is gonna be laying out unbiased info on their end.

Anybody know what's the true story on milk? I do find it curious that we're the only species who drinks the milk of another mammal on a regular basis. Even mammals with some pretty hefty bones (which is what all that calcium is really supposed to help) get by without it....

[sailor]

well, there's not that much to discuss as you can find most of the information you need on the label or on line. Whole milk is high in fat and so you should take that into account. The main thing people have against skim milk is that they don't like it (there was a recent thread about this you might want to look up). I do not have that problem and so I drink a lot of milk just because it is a food that does not require preparation. I have it with cereal, with coffee etc. I drink about a quart a day and I seem to be in pretty good health.

Another issue is the PETA angle that it is cruel to cows to be handling their tits without asking them first but I guess you are asking strictly whether milk is good for you. The answer is yes, it is good for you if you consume it reasonably. Note that some people cannot digest lactose and that some cultures do not drink milk (like china).

[Lance Turbo]

I often find it strange that adult homo sapiens willingly breastfeed from cows. I don't drink milk, as it seems a little too weird to me.

However, I do like cheese, which is even weirder.

[Jois]

I've been reading some pros and cons on milk and will see if I can find the most informative and email it to you or write an inept summary if you haven't listed your email address.

The value is being brought into question but with a couple of hundred years of milk use I can't see that anyone has come up with any real problems for drinking milk. (Yes to those unable to digest lactose after age five or allergies, but those are the exceptions.)

And if you give your child the lower fat milk, so much the better.

[Mojo]

I can't see that anyone has come up with any real problems for drinking milk

Well, PETA has printed several scientists' claims that drinking milk actually increases your chances of osteoperosis. As anecdotal evidence they point out that countries where the population doesn't drink much milk (China for example) has a much lower rate of osteoperosis than the U.S. I don't subscribe to their point of view (I havent seen enough evidence and osteoperosis is a pretty poor reason to eat dry cereal:)) but just wanted to point that out.

And I like cheese too.

[johnboy]

Hey Cranky, the study MOJO is referring to (the one cited by peta) is exaimined (along with its author) quite thoroughly in this month's (August) Discover Magazine. It pretty much addressed all of MOJO's and your concerns.

[tcburnett]

Originally posted by Lance Turbo
I often find it strange that adult homo sapiens willingly breastfeed from cows. I don't drink milk, as it seems a little too weird to me.

However, I do like cheese, which is even weirder.


I like skim milk and I drink about a quart a day. But it has to be fresh. I sometimes get the Evil Eye from waitresses in restaurants when I order milk and ask "Oh, is it freshly squeezed?"

I like cheese too as long as I don't think about how it's made. I read a disgusting formula for goat cheese once. I suppose the gentle reader is lucky I can't find it. However, you might want to peruse this:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrennet.html


"Hey, what ARE those lumps in cheese, anyhow?"

[Jophiel]

I don't find drinking cow milk to be any stranger than eating cow flesh (which is something I do on a regular basis). While we may be the only animal to drink the milk of another as a dietary staple, we're also the only animal to serve lobster cooked with butter or mash coffee beans, boil them in water and drink the resulting blend. I don't really see what the difference is.

Anyway, milk is pretty much a necessity in early life (even the formula makers mention on the can that breastfeeding is better though I don't think it brings them any joy to admit it) and is probably one of the more balanced single items you can pull out of nature and consume on sight. However, the milk of the moo-cow isn't something we need as other cultures have shown. But it's not bad for you either, provided you live a healthy lifestyle that burns off that fat or else get the 2%/Skim varieties. And the vitamins and calcium are definately good for you as well. Drink up.

[sailor]

The Chinese do not drink milk and cheese, yogurt etc are nothing more than spoiled milk. I learnt this when I gave a Chinese girl in China a chunk of cheese as a present. I already knew in Chinese manners you cannot accept a gift the first time as you would appear greedy, but she was very adamant and i was *very* insistent. Finally she took it and shortly after I learnt how the Chinese feel about cheese... she probably dumped it in the gutter and thought these foreigners are such barbarians.

It is interesting though that in my last visit I have seen yogurt sold on street stands as a foreign novelty item and many people were buying it, especially the younger ones.

BTW Another novelty I saw was some drinks like tea or flavored milk sold on a big cup with a straw through the cover. The unusual thing is that it has some "submarines" like tiny marshmallows and the strw is of large diameter so the things will come up through it. I thought they were cute.

Goat's cheese is delicious and manchego which is one of my favorites is made with goat's milk (although I am suspicious they may have the typical rules that you can call it goat's cheese as long as it has some trace of goat milk...)

[BiblioCat]

Milk is just the new evil food, as evidenced by PETA and the CSPI (Center for Science in the Public Interest...the same folks who jumped all over fettucini alfredo, movie popcorn and Chinese food).
I think it's fine, unless of course you are lactose intolerant. My family of 5 goes through at least a gallon a day, easily. I buy it 3 gallons at a time. One percent, though, not skim.

[QUOTE]Jophiel said:
I don't find drinking cow milk to be any stranger than eating cow flesh (which is something I do on a regular basis). While we may be the only animal to drink the milk of another as a dietary staple, we're also the only animal to serve lobster cooked with butter or mash coffee beans, boil them in water and drink the resulting blend. I don't really see what the difference is. [QUOTE]

I agree with this. Add also eggs. How weird is that, to be eating something that comes out of a chicken's butt? Well, not exaclty it's butt, but you know what I mean...
:)

[Joe_Cool]

Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan
I do find it curious that we're the only species who drinks the milk of another mammal on a regular basis.

On the other hand, we are also the only species to develop written language, build suspension bridges, harness nuclear energy, and achieve space-flight. Maybe other species just aren't worthy of cow's milk. Maybe cow's milk is the secret to limitless potential for knowledge! We'd better keep this a secret, so some lesser but more physically threatening species doesn't drink it and take over the world from us!

[wolfman]

Well actually every adult cat and dog I've ever had was extremely pleased to drink cows milk. Not to mention ive seem bears break into coolers that only contained a carton of milk. I'm pretty sure if Fluffy the cat was coordinated enough to manage it, she'd be more that happy to milk a cow herself.

[sailor]

I hear camel's milk is pretty good too :-)

[jayron 32]

I drink milk because I enjoy the flavor. I need no more justification than that.

[tcburnett]

Originally posted by sailor
I hear camel's milk is pretty good too :-)

Yeah, and dog milk. But you don't get much dog milk unless you have a whole herd of dogs.

[Wood Thrush]

Originally posted by Kinsey
Add also eggs. How weird is that, to be eating something that comes out of a chicken's butt? Well, not exaclty it's butt, but you know what I mean.


Actually, eggs do come out the "butt." Eggs are laid from the cloaca — the same hole from which urine and feces exit the body. Semen also exits and enters via the cloaca in many birds.

[zut]

My brother-in-law eats a macrobiotic diet, and he swears milk is bad for you. He claims, anecdotally, that after about two weeks of avoiding milk and cheese his head feels clearer, he has fewer digestive problems, and he overall feels better. When he relapses (say, grabs a couple slices of pizza) he automatically feels pretty logy.

I personally don't drink milk, but I like cheese way too much to give up dairy products. However, I've often kinda wondered whether, if I quit eating cheese, if I could tell the difference in my overall health.

A cursory search turned up this page (http://www.macrobiotics.org/meatdairy.html), outlining the alleged side effects of drinking milk (scroll down a bit), and this page (http://www.macrobiotic.org/msmilk.html), which claims a link between milk and MS. Interesting read, but you'll have to make up your own mind on the truth therein.

[Sunshine]

According to my father, people over the age of 12 shouldn't get within 20 feet of milk. He has various theories on why, including that drinking milk could poison you with extra vitamins and minerals that adults get elsewhere in their diet. Also that it is too fatty (the man pretends like there's nothing but whole milk) and causes mucus buildup.

Keep in mind that this is coming from a man who:
Eats soft butter plain, directly from the stick (using a knife to cut off a pat and place it directly on the tongue),
Firmly believes in aliens, crop circles and conspiracy theories,
Says with complete conviction and sincerity that drinking and smoking in moderation means not having more than one of each in your hand at at time.

So even if his milk theories might sound somewhat reasonable, he doesn't have a whole lot socked away at the First Sunshine Bank of Credibility.

Plus, I love milk and enjoy a tall, cold 1% quite often. I don't see any detrimental side effects from it.

[Myrr21]

I remember hearing somewhere that it was recently shown that the gene for lactose tolerance past childhood is actually a mutation, not the wild type. It just happens to be a very common mutation. Of course, this research could have since been refuted. Besides, I can drink milk, and it's good to me...

[sailor]

>> dog milk

tcburnett, wouldn't that be "bitch milk"? :)

In any case... bitches are dangerous, especially when you want their tits... use a muzzle to be safe ;)

[tcburnett]

Originally posted by sailor
>> dog milk

tcburnett, wouldn't that be "bitch milk"? :)


ROFL! Yes, sailor, it would. But if I said 'Bitch milk' and not 'dog milk', I would immediately be banned for sexism that I didn't mean. Female members of the SDMB would be taking up a collection to hire Lorena Bobbitt to make love to me. The ones that weren't doing that would be racing to the tire store to buy 'Michelin Man' dolls to stick pins into. Manhattan would be pounding his 'delete' key with a hammer. I would have to move to some island in the Pacific. No thanks, man. I'd rather stay here in Hawai'i.

In any case... bitches are dangerous, especially when you want their tits... use a muzzle to be safe ;)

Forget it sailor. I'm not EVEN going there....:)

[Lance Turbo]

Posters seem to be responding that milk is not bad for you. Maybe it is or maybe it isn't.

The OP also asked if milk is good for you or if we need it at all.

What is the straight poop? Who came up with the USRDA for calcium?

One thing I read says this:

Eskimos have about the highest intake of calcium of any ethnic group. (From eating fish bones. Mmmm.) They also have rates of osteoprosis higher than or equal to Joe average American. This would seem to indicate that getting plenty of calcium is not enough tp prevent osteoporosis.

The above is paraphrased from Diet for a New America, which is a totally biased book intent on encouraging people to be vegan, so take it with a grain of salt. (And a swig of milk) Oddly enough, DFANA was written by Jon Robbins the heir to the Baskin-Robbins millions. I bet he could get all the ice cream he wanted for free, but he won't touch the stuff.

[BiblioCat]

...written by Jon Robbins the heir to the Baskin-Robbins millions. I bet he could get all the ice cream he wanted for free, but he won't touch the stuff...

Well, that's just sacreligious!
Heir to the B-R gazillions and he won't eat ice cream? Write him outta the will RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!
:D

[Chronos]

My vegetarian (but not completely vegan) relatives attribute every health problem known to Man to drinking too much milk, and cite their own health as proof. Myself, I'm more inclined to credit an active, outdoor lifestyle, but anyway,in the interest of science, I once tried their suggestion that I go without dairy for a week. I was just as congested as ever, and by the end of day 4 or 5, I was getting cravings.

It's true that a great many people are lactose intolerant... I've heard that it's the most common allergy in the world, and I have no reason to doubt it. For such people, certainly, milk isn't too good, but for the rest of us (including, thank God, myself), there's no known health risks.

[tygre]

I'm lactose intolerant so I don't drink cow's milk at all, and neither do my kids or husband. I do cook with it on occasion, though and have fewer problems with it that way.

Dairy consumption has been linked to increased mucus production and higher risk of ear infections in children.

I heard also that the USRDA for calcium is so high because they figure that you're getting all of your calcium from dairy products, and the calcium in dairy products is more difficult to assimilate due to the high protein content of milk and milk products.

--tygre

[Major Feelgud]

Originally posted by Mojo
I can't see that anyone has come up with any real problems for drinking milk

Well, PETA has printed several scientists' claims that drinking milk actually increases your chances of osteoperosis. As anecdotal evidence they point out that countries where the population doesn't drink much milk (China for example) has a much lower rate of osteoperosis than the U.S. I don't subscribe to their point of view (I havent seen enough evidence and osteoperosis is a pretty poor reason to eat dry cereal:)) but just wanted to point that out.

And I like cheese too.

Well PETA is wrong, again. Elderly Chinese women have a much higher rate of osteoporosis than similar white women. This is from personal experience, not anecdotal.

Personally, if I had to be a cow. I'd much rather be a dairy cow than a beefsteak cow.

The only thing I'm concerned with is whether they inject milk cows with hormones or antibiotics, or feed them other dead cows.

[Major Feelgud]

Originally posted by sailor
The Chinese do not drink milk and cheese, yogurt etc are nothing more than spoiled milk. I learnt this when I gave a Chinese girl in China a chunk of cheese as a present. I already knew in Chinese manners you cannot accept a gift the first time as you would appear greedy, but she was very adamant and i was *very* insistent. Finally she took it and shortly after I learnt how the Chinese feel about cheese... she probably dumped it in the gutter and thought these foreigners are such barbarians.


Where the heck did you meet this Chinese girl? In some little town in the boondocks where no one ever visits? Or did you time travel and meet her in the 18th century?

Chinese drink milk. They do not eat cheese. Even we don't really eat cheese. The stuff on a Whopper doesn't count. And Kraft singles is not real cheese. Real cheese is what the English and the French eat. With your hands, on crackers, or with wine.

I also know in American manners you cannot accept a gift the first time. I don't accept gifts from people for the first time either. She's probably thinking, what's up with this guy? He probably has some ulterior motive. And what's this thing with foreigners and barbarians? They're not living in the 18th century, you know.

[TheThill]

Actually, I once learned that 90% Chinese and other East Asians are lactose intolerant, whereas only 10% of people of European genetic background have this problem (IIRC Sub-Saharan Africans were about %30 lactose intolerant.) This does a lot to explain (healthy) attitudes towards dairy in China, and a lot to explain the macrobiotic (Japanese) aversion to it as well.

Anecdote part of post:

When I used to work in a Chinese restaurant, one of the Chinese workers there (who was probably one of the 10% tolerant) used to flamboyantly drink copious amounts of milk. You should have seen the looks he got from the others in the kitchen!

[sailor]

Major Feelgood, I detect some incredulity in your post. Let's see...

Where the heck did you meet this Chinese girl? In some little town in the boondocks where no one ever visits? Or did you time travel and meet her in the 18th century?
I met her in GuangZhou which is a city of several (8?) million people located not far from Shenzhen and Hongkong and is probably one of the most developed in China.

Chinese drink milk. They do not eat cheese. Even we don't really eat cheese. The stuff on a Whopper doesn't count. And Kraft singles is not real cheese. Real cheese is what the English and the French eat. With your hands, on crackers, or with wine.

I have not been to northern China but I can assure you it is not easy to find milk in GuangZhou. First of all they lack refrigeration. You can find UHT milk in westernized upscale supermarkets and it costs an arm and a leg. I can assure you it is not part of their everyday diet. If you say the opposite, you have not been there and you are mistaken.

As for American consumption of cheese I recently read that it has more than tripled in the last three decades (it was an article about obesity and unhealthy eating habits). I can assure you westerners eat *way* more cheese than the Chinese.

I also know in American manners you cannot accept a gift the first time. I don't accept gifts from people for the first time either. She's probably thinking, what's up with this guy? He probably has some ulterior motive. And what's this thing with foreigners and barbarians? They're not living in the 18th century, you know.

You misunderstood what I said which goes to show you do not know Chinese manners. The Chinese reject a gift the first few times it is offered even if they have known you for years and you are a close friend. To accept a gift the first time it is offered makes them appear greedy so you have to insist several times.

I do not know how muh you know about China but I have travelled there a few times for several weeks at a time and I have quite a few Chinese friends.

[Johanna]

I quit all dairy just before the beginning of the new year. Replaced cow milk with soy milk on my breakfast cereal. Otherwise, not much difference. I used to eat a lot of yogurt every day. My body made a sour acid smell which went away after I quit the yogurt, so I don't miss it. I quit dairy for health reasons -- to cut down on fat and protein and animal hormones and other junk that gets into modern agribusiness.

I used to love milk, I used to indulge in all the Indian sweets and desserts and puddings made of condensed milk. I sort of miss those but don't think about it very much.

Robert Anton Wilson's book Ishtar Rising goes into the love for, and fear of, the human woman's breast. He is in favor of loving the breast, and says that those who repress it and censor it are anal-retentives by nature. The oral personality loves the breast and milk; the anal hates milk as well as breasts.

I still love breasts as much as ever; I'm not repulsed by milk but I have found that I can get by just fine without it in my diet.

So all things considered it's probably not a big deal either way.

[zero]

Originally posted by sailor

BTW Another novelty I saw was some drinks like tea or flavored milk sold on a big cup with a straw through the cover. The unusual thing is that it has some "submarines" like tiny marshmallows and the strw is of large diameter so the things will come up through it. I thought they were cute.


OT, a Hong Kong cafeteria near me sells this tea, and it's become my favorite beverage. It's tea blended with fruit pulp, and served on ice over tapioca. At least here the tapioca is sautéed in something to give it a dark brown color.

Overall it's delicious stuff. I recommend it.