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AmericanMaid
04-12-2005, 11:08 AM
My brother has his first serious relationship at age 26. The chick is a 26 year old divorcee who is a mother of 3. To be accurate, she's not divorced yet because her abusive ex hasn't signed the papers.

Long before this relationship occured, my brother and I made plans for me to visit him Patriot's Day weekend. Last month, my brother cancelled on me because Ms. Divorcee wants to visit her dying dad in Indiana. I was pissed at first but was fine with it. To make sure that I wouldn't stew all weekend, I set up a bunch of spa appointments (massage, manicure, pedcure, and facial). Hell, I already had set aside the money, right?

Sure enough, I got a phone call two weeks ago from my brother. Divorcee and him are taking a break and he wanted me to visit him again. He also apologized profusely. Since I love my brother and enjoy visiting him, I moved around my appointments and started planning for the trip.

Today, I got an email asking if we could halve my visit because he wants to spend time with Divorcee. I am sick of this shit yet I love my brother and miss his company. I am pissed that I come in second to screwing his girlfriend or ex or whatever the hell she is.

Fuck her and her fucked up life. Ever since my brother has been involved with her, he hasn't kept in touch and is pulling this B .S. What the hell kind of girlfriend makes a guy choose between her and his family? I'll tell you. A girlfriend who has issues. I'm sure she gets off on my big strong brother rescuing her from a failed marriage and even encourages his fantasy of playing father to her kids. My anger has dried up my tears and all I have to say is FUCK!

lieu
04-12-2005, 11:17 AM
With this being his first serious relationship he's kinda new to the game too and undoubtably is going to make some mistakes, the first of which apparently is not letting other relationships suffer because of this new, demanding one.

Why don't you let him know first that you're afraid this is happening. If it persists then you've got a problem but, hopefully, the cause up to now is just ignorance and not malice on anyone's part.

Greathouse
04-12-2005, 11:19 AM
Ehhh, he'll figure it out soon enough.

But, I must say that it isn't uncommon when someone gets into a serious relationship that the family gets put on the back burner a bit. Not totally dismissed, mind you, but just a little bit less contact.

belladonna
04-12-2005, 11:26 AM
Is this woman actually pittable for some reason other than the fact that she's been through a bad marriage and is currently dating your brother?

mhendo
04-12-2005, 11:32 AM
Jeez, yeah, fuck her for wanting visit her dying father. What a total and complete bitch she must be! And fuck your brother, too, for going along with this sentimentalist bullshit rather than telling her to get the fuck over it!

And what the fuck is up with accusing her of making your brother "choose between her and his family"? Your own post gives no indication at all that this is what she's doing. Hell, you state very clearly that he cancelled because "he wants to spend time with Divorcee." (Why her divorced status is relevant, i'm not quite sure. Maybe to show that she's immoral or something?)

If anyone deserves a pitting here, as far as i can tell it's your brother. But all he seems to be doing is being a good partner, and his attachment to her in the early stages of a relationship is completely understandable, especially since this is apparently his first serious relationship.

I think you need to calm down and get over yourself.

mhendo
04-12-2005, 11:34 AM
Note: Just to be clear, my previous post should have had a [sarcasm off] button after the first paragraph.

AmericanMaid
04-12-2005, 11:35 AM
She's pittable because she had a "dying father" to visit on Patriot's Day weekend last month and now she suddenly is available for a post-sister visit screw with my brother. Maybe the dad has already died but something smells fishy.

slumtrimpet
04-12-2005, 11:40 AM
I agree she's pittable. (but so is he for playing her game) A decent relationship is one where either partner welcomes the family of the other - unless your brother failed to mention that he had planned a visit from you and is dancing to his girlfriend's tune all on his own (without her input). Tell the boy how you feel and enjoy your weekend at the spa. (if you can get your appointments back)

Giraffe
04-12-2005, 11:41 AM
She's pittable because she had a "dying father" to visit on Patriot's Day weekend last month and now she suddenly is available for a post-sister visit screw with my brother. Maybe the dad has already died but something smells fishy.Nope, I'm still not getting it. What is the girlfriend doing that's wrong? Not mourning her dying father enough? Having sex with your brother? Forcing him to blow you off with some sort of mind control ray?

lieu
04-12-2005, 11:43 AM
Maybe the dad has already died but something smells fishy.These could be related.

LilyoftheValley
04-12-2005, 11:49 AM
She's pittable because she had a "dying father" to visit on Patriot's Day weekend last month and now she suddenly is available for a post-sister visit screw with my brother. Maybe the dad has already died but something smells fishy.

Maybe you know something that I'm just not getting from your posts, but I don't understand the complaint at all. Is there any reason to think her dad is not seriously ill? Can't you imagine that if her dad was seriously ill, she would want to spend time with your brother afterwards? Or maybe your brother thinks it's important to support her?

I've yet to see how she is making him choose between her and his family. Isn't it more likely that he's head over heels and is the one dropping everything for her? Is she supposed to dial the phone for him and make him call you?

(Upon preview: what Giraffe said.)

Homebrew
04-12-2005, 11:49 AM
What is Patriot's Day weekend? Is that some new national holiday I've never heard of?

AmericanMaid
04-12-2005, 11:59 AM
Sigh... I guess if I pit anyone, I should pit my brother. It's just easier to villify the Divorcee, who I haven't met. My parents have and they say she's nice.

The story I was fed last month was her father, who had left the family when she was 3 and never contacted her, was dying from liver cancer in Indiana. The plan back then was my brother and her drive to Indiana with the three kids and take the entire weekend to visit him. Either he already died ,the Divorcee cancelled the trip due to the break-up, or there is no dying father.

This relationship will eventually crash and burn like all the others and I'll be there for him of course. But this is the first time he's pulled crap like this.

P.S. Patriot's Day weekend is a long weekend celebrated only in MA.

belladonna
04-12-2005, 12:02 PM
This relationship will eventually crash and burn like all the others ...
I thought this was his first relationship?

Giraffe
04-12-2005, 12:06 PM
Sigh... I guess if I pit anyone, I should pit my brother. It's just easier to villify the Divorcee, who I haven't met. My parents have and they say she's nice.Fair enough. It sucks when friends and/or family get into new relationships and immediately turn into different, annoying people. It's tempting to believe that the other person somehow brainwashed them into acting like this, but sadly it's usually just romance-induced stupidity.

I was a total idiot during my first long-term relationship, and I'm sure my friends and family wanted to believe it was all the girl's fault I acted like such a dolt. But sadly, I was just young and dumb. Hopefully your brother will snap out of it and learn to be in a relationship without putting the rest of his life on hold. If he doesn't, consider punching him.

TellMeI'mNotCrazy
04-12-2005, 12:09 PM
I don't know why you'd assume it was a line about her father. Maybe you can't understand why it would be important for her to see her father, even if she hasn't seen him in 23 years, as he's living out his last days. That doesn't mean it wasn't important to her. And if your brother is a good partner to her, it will be important to him. Sure, he cancelled your plans together, but you can reschedule those. You can't reschedule something like your father (estranged or otherwise) being on his deathbed.


Your brother has also indicated to you that he still wants to see you - demonstrating to you that you're still important to him, even when his life is in chaos. Sounds to me like you want to be his number one priority, which is an awful lot for a sister to expect. And while it probably isn't the case, your last statement makes it sound like you can't wait for it to fall apart so you can hug him and hold him, and crow triumphantly about how evil she was, and you knew it all along.

tdn
04-12-2005, 12:25 PM
AmericanMaid, not to sound accusatory, but what was the nature of your brother's other failed relationships? Were these also women that you disapproved of? Did they try to make your brother choose between you and them?

What is Patriot's Day weekend? Is that some new national holiday I've never heard of?

As AM said, it's a state holiday (which I don't get off :(). The main event of the holiday is the running of the Boston Marathon, which essentially means I'm either shut into or out of my apartment from around 11am until around 6pm.

AmericanMaid
04-12-2005, 12:41 PM
tdn, his other relationships have been with mentally unstable women who I did not approve of. It's my job being a judgy big sister, right? My favorite was the girl who had anxiety attacks whenever he wanted to discuss their relationship.

Encinitas
04-12-2005, 12:54 PM
AmericanMaid why don't you tell your brother that you would love to spend the weekend with both him and his girlfriend, getting to know her and participating in their lives. Perhaps once you do get to know her your opinon will soften. Certainly an important part of any new relationship is introducing your love to your extended family and friends and seeking acceptance and mutual respect amongt all parties. You could all go to the spa together. ;)

Jaade
04-12-2005, 12:57 PM
I, personally, do not believe you should be pitting anyone in this situation.


After reading your OP I thought that you must be pretty young...maybe in college on your own for the first time and your older brother, who you'd always looked up to, was shunning you for his new girlfriend. I was thinking that it was understandable that you'd react this way, given your immaturity and obviously close relationship with your brother.

......Then I looked at your posting history a bit. You are 28 years old! My lord woman, get a grip! I do not want to slap you around (verbally) while you are in such a tizzy, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what is going on here. Either there is something more that you have not shared with us - which is within your right but is deceiving and makes anyone wishing to sympathize with you difficult - or you are just being a brat.

Do you have a reason to believe that this girlfriend..excuse me..divorcee (who is in your mind at least trying to "saddle" your brother with her three kids from her first marriage) is lying about her father dying? If not, that's a pretty harsh accusation. Do you have a reason to believe that she knows what he had originally planned for the Patriot's Day weekend? Do you have a reason to believe that he's doing ANY of this because she's coercing him instead of him? Or is it just that he's being a good boyfriend by spending time with his girlfriend in what has to be an extremely difficult time and you are jealous because you've just been shown the back seat?

I feel so mean for saying all of this to you, but that's not my intention. I just cannot understand what the problem is here. People in new relationships like to spend time together - especially if it's serious as you've intimated. People in relationships support each other through the hard times.

I know my post is a little harsher than the other posts here but I've been this "divorcee" for all that I know about her. When I started seeing a new guy his family would FREAK OUT anytime he chose to spend time with me over them. His sister would have a fit if he tried to include me in any plans the two of them had because she was leaving after the summer to go to college and she wouldn't get to see him for two months. ~BIG POUT~ :rolleyes: At some point - and I think 26 years old is that point ..beyond it actually - you have to realize that he will have a life that is not all about you and your family. Yes, it sucks that you don't get to see him as much or that sometimes HIS LIFE (not his girlfriend's..as they are together now you might as well see anything that happens to her as being part of HIS LIFE) will take precendence over minor holiday plans (as in minor holiday - not necessarily minor plans). Life happens, you should be old enough to understand that by now.


On preview..

tdn, his other relationships have been with mentally unstable women who I did not approve of. It's my job being a judgy big sister, right? My favorite was the girl who had anxiety attacks whenever he wanted to discuss their relationship.

So he's had other serious relationships or he hasn't? I'm confused. The other relationships weren't serious or they don't count because you didn't approve of them?

No...no it's not your job to be a "judgy big sister". He's two years younger than you. He's not 12, he's 26. He's an adult. It's your job to be a good sister, supportive of your brother unless he is actually treating you poorly. Let me point out to you that interfering in his relationships is not just going to cause trouble between them, it's going to cause trouble between you and your brother. And if you continue to villify every woman he dates, you will soon find yourself wondering why you and your brother don't have a good relationship.

Syntropy
04-12-2005, 12:59 PM
*sigh*....
I've done this. My brother and my sister in law have been happily married coming up on three years in June. When they met, he'd just gotten out of a very bad relationship, his head wasn't where it should have been and I was afraid that it was all rebound and she'd use him like a cheap toy then throw him away. I didn't want his head fucked with any more, and I was very vocal about it. As it turns out. she's good for him and loves him to distraction. Who knew? But it took a lot of time and fence mending for her and I to get past things that should have stayed in my head.
It was entirely my fault for being such a judgemental protective big sister, but it's hard to keep one's big mouth shut when it's your little brother and you're close.
He's going to figure out for himself whether or not this relationship is worth it. And yes, if it does go sour, he'll probably say "Why didn't you TELL me?" Trust me, from personal experience. Better that he find out on his own than a huge rift between the two of you that may take years to heal.

tremorviolet
04-12-2005, 01:14 PM
Yeah, I've been through this too. My little brother used to be a serial dater, hooking up with a parade of women who would someitmes make catty comments about me as though I were the competition. Finally, I hooked him up with a good friend of mine, figuring I might as well get him a girlfriend I like. It worked too well. They got married last year and are expecting a baby in May.

In theory, I should be thrilled. My friend and my brother, right? But I actually felt a little twinge of jealousy, that she's become a much more important part of his life than I am and we'll never be quite as close as we once were.

PunditLisa
04-12-2005, 01:15 PM
...My brother and I made plans for me to visit him Patriot's Day weekend. Last month, my brother cancelled on me.... I got a phone call two weeks ago from my brother. Divorcee and him are taking a break and he wanted me to visit him again....Today, I got an email asking if we could halve my visit because he wants to spend time with Divorcee.

As you correctly stated, it is HE who deserves the pitting. He is being terribly inconsiderate. Instead of stewing about this unknown woman's "fucked up life" why don't you, I don't know, COMMUNICATE to your brother about how his constant vascillation is making you (sad, angry, offended). And, for pete's sake, quit making plans with someone who obviously has other priorities.

It's no wonder he can't sustain a relationship if this is how your brother treats people. It ain't nice.

TellMeI'mNotCrazy
04-12-2005, 01:20 PM
Seriously, how many people here would find it reasonable if their boyfriends said "Sorry, honey, I know your dad is dying, but I promised my sister we'd visit, and... Maybe next time," ?

If my boyfriend/spouse/SO blew me off at a time like that for a reason like that, he'd be an ex pretty damn fast.

AmericanMaid
04-12-2005, 01:23 PM
I, personally, do not believe you should be pitting anyone in this situation.


After reading your OP I thought that you must be pretty young...maybe in college on your own for the first time and your older brother, who you'd always looked up to, was shunning you for his new girlfriend. I was thinking that it was understandable that you'd react this way, given your immaturity and obviously close relationship with your brother.

......Then I looked at your posting history a bit. You are 28 years old! My lord woman, get a grip!
Thanks for calling me immature. Your point? Should family members mean less to us as we age? Or that our schedules should be more flexible by age 28? Sorry to break it to you, as a full-time worker and part-time student I'm maxed out on flexibility.


I do not want to slap you around (verbally) while you are in such a tizzy, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what is going on here. Either there is something more that you have not shared with us - which is within your right but is deceiving and makes anyone wishing to sympathize with you difficult - or you are just being a brat.
Fine. I had a recent cancer scare and wanted to celebrate a benign biopsy with a trip out to see my brother, who I had worried. On top of that, there's a huge amount of medical baggage that happened to me four years ago with my father bailing and my brother stepping in to fill the void. He didn't step in because I asked him to, he stepped in because he saw I needed it. Yes, I was 24 and he was 22 when all this happened and maybe I should have been mature enough to handle everything but I was severely brain damaged, paralyzed and barely able to speak. So maybe that can answer your maturity conundrum, huh?


I know my post is a little harsher than the other posts here but I've been this "divorcee" for all that I know about her. When I started seeing a new guy his family would FREAK OUT anytime he chose to spend time with me over them. His sister would have a fit if he tried to include me in any plans the two of them had because she was leaving after the summer to go to college and she wouldn't get to see him for two months. ~BIG POUT~ At some point - and I think 26 years old is that point ..beyond it actually - you have to realize that he will have a life that is not all about you and your family. Yes, it sucks that you don't get to see him as much or that sometimes HIS LIFE (not his girlfriend's..as they are together now you might as well see anything that happens to her as being part of HIS LIFE) will take precendence over minor holiday plans (as in minor holiday - not necessarily minor plans). Life happens, you should be old enough to understand that by now.
My brother has had his own life for years now and everything was fine. I was fine with seeing him biannually. Hell, I figured he deserved some time off from the family considering what my stroke put him through. Since I'm an immature brat, I am feeling a lot calmer about the situation. It's probably best to limit my time around him and this new girl.

Maureen, I really appreciate your insight as a big sister to another. Thanks!

TellMeI'mNotCrazy
04-12-2005, 01:29 PM
While it's entirely your own business, including some of that (even vaguely) might have made your stance seem a lot more reasonable than it originally came across. IMHO.

CrazyCatLady
04-12-2005, 02:28 PM
I think what people are trying to say is that there's this...undertone in your comments about this woman that makes it sound like you're pissed that she's higher on his priority list than you are, and that's something that's really rather unreasonable to be pissed about. Your mate taking a more vital role in your life than your parents and siblings is just the natural order of things. It's not that they're any less important to you, it's just that this other person has become even more important.

I love my brother dearly. I'd do anything in the world for him in a heartbeat, and I believe that feeling is reciprocated. But we are absolutely not each other's top priorities. His opinions and desires aren't even in the same universe of importance to me as Dr.J's, and my opinions and desires aren't in the same universe of importance to him as those of his wife and child. And that's only as it should be. Cleaving to one's mate, and all that jazz.

You seem to have a lot of hostility toward this woman, and I'm not really getting where it's coming from. Unless there's a whole lot of bad things you actually know for a fact she's said or done that you're not telling us about, these accusations of her lying about her father or trying to come between you and your brother are really coming out of left field. What has this woman ever done to merit you painting her as such lying, manipulative, gold-plated bitch?

Is it just that she's some Johnny-come-lately cunt who's horning in your turf, challenging your seniority, and disrupting your family unity? Well, that's going to be pretty much any girlfriend he ever has and eventually his wife, I'm afraid. Compared to someone who's known him since birth, they're all going to be Johnny-come-latelies. It's weird and hard and sometimes a little scary at first to think that some upstart who's only been around a little bit can be more important than you, who's known and loved him for decades. But it's the natural order of things. It happens. It is happening, right now. So the best thing you can do, both for your brother and yourself, is learn to accept that it's not loosening the ties that bind you, just changing their nature a bit.

CrazyCatLady
04-12-2005, 02:36 PM
Oh, and I also wanted to point out that she ain't the one jerking you around--that's all your darlin' little bro. Unless she's holding a gun to his head while he's on the phone with you, it is his freely made choice to toss you aside whenever she's around then expect you to drop everything the second she's not. That doesn't exactly sound like a paragon of familial virtue who's being manipulated by a whorish shrew, to me.

tdn
04-12-2005, 02:53 PM
This is what I was trying to get at. It's entirely possible that the new girlfriend is a gold-digging bitch who is trying to break up the family, but your OP is also entirely consistant with a smothering older sister who is jealously trying to keep her little brother from growing up. Sounds like you might be sabotaging his attempts at happiness.

I could be totally wrong on that, but ask yourself this: If your brother ended up marrying this woman next week, in what ways would your life begin to suck?

Q.N. Jones
04-12-2005, 06:54 PM
I don't think your brother has any balls at all.

Direct your anger at your brother. He's the one to blame here. She's not forcing him to jerk you around--he's a grown-up with a mind of his own. Maybe she is a bitch who asks him to ditch his plans with you, but it's him who's got the obligations to you, and it's him who made the decision to treat you like dirt.

I have to say, I was willing to make an allowance for him the first time he cancelled. Supporting a loved one when they have a relative dying--that's kind of an exception to the rule that you don't break plans to run off and do something with someone else. But it sounds like Bro is going to make this a habit.

I wouldn't go if I were you. There is a strong likelihood that, when you get there, he will spend most of his time with the girlfriend. And I'd tell him, firmly but calmly, exactly why you're not going. Let him know how much he's hurting you. It might motivate him to grow some stones.

AmericanMaid
04-12-2005, 09:16 PM
Folks, thanks to the excellent feedback in this topic, I was able to wrest control from my id and now my ego is taking over. As a result, cool rational me booked a hotel and let my brother know that if he wants to spend time with me, I'll be there (not holding my breath). Thanks a lot everyone! In the initial stages of disappointment, my aim for anger and hurt isn't too exact. Now, I'm going to go off and enjoy the Arrested Development threads!

PatriotX
04-13-2005, 07:11 AM
You should merely make your case to your bro that he's screwing up his priorities. And that's it.
Otherwise still be as available to him as you'd like to be. 'Cause (assuming you're right) eventually he'll see that he's got his wrong head up the wrong place.

Misery Loves Co.
04-13-2005, 03:42 PM
Just a random piece of input from my personal experience. . .

My parents both had cancer, and both my SO and I were aware that time with them was limited. They didn't have a definite diagnosis, but still, it was a sooner rather than later proposition.

For about 4 years, they took priority in terms of family visits and holidays. We would go to hang out with the SO's family on occasion, but the "important" holidays and longer visits were scheduled around my parents.

Now, they're both gone, and I'll be spending ALL the significant holidays with my SO's family for the foreseeable future. This family, incidentally, has accepted me in an overwhelming way, and I am eternally grateful to all of them for their understanding while I "pulled my SO away from them for my own selfish needs".

"Dying" can be shorthand for "not a lot of time left". Even if Divorcee's dad was doing jumping jacks when they visited the first time, it doesn't belie the fact that if he's got a terminal condition, her time with him is knowably limited.

Weirddave
04-13-2005, 03:59 PM
Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me.


ME! ME! ME!

Nowhere in here have I seen the slightest concern for your brother's feelings, or maybe even a desire that he find happiness with the woman of his choice, even if it meant you aren't as big a part of his life as before. The person who suggested you grow up nailed it in one.

AwSnappity
04-13-2005, 04:38 PM
Okay, Dave, but she's re-thought it. She's repented. She's acknowledged that she was being selfish. So why do you have to come in here, repeat something that lots of other people have said, and put your own dickish spin on it?

Miller
04-13-2005, 04:44 PM
Okay, Dave, but she's re-thought it. She's repented. She's acknowledged that she was being selfish. So why do you have to come in here, repeat something that lots of other people have said, and put your own dickish spin on it?

Could be he spent the last eighteen hours coding all those "me"s and didn't notice she'd posted a retraction while he was composing his post.